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Uncle Bill
08-22-2013, 12:24 PM
...how a city in bankrupcy like Detroit, can continue to 'sell-out' their baseball stadium every night? Over 40,000 attending for the Tigers, and when the football season begins, the Lions will have full stadiums as well. How are we supposed to feel badly for a city that exhibits that form of enjoyment?

In the meantime, this is one story that gets little ink. What a pity.

UB

Terrible Side Effect of Detroit Bankruptcy: 50,000 Homeless Dogs

By: Brad Jackson (http://www.retrievertraining.net/users/tex_whitley/) (Diary (http://www.retrievertraining.net/tex_whitley/)) |



There are many sad stories coming out of Detroit in the wake of its bankruptcy. Entire neighborhoods abandoned, thousands without jobs, a city without services, it’s a depressing and deserted place, a shadow of the the once great Motor City it used to be. Today a story in Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2013-08-21/the-abandoned-dogs-that-roam-the-streets-of-detroit.html) shines some light on a terrible side effect of Detroit’s economic collapse that many are unaware of: a massive homeless dog population.

As human residents of Detroit have suffered, so too have their canine companions. Nearly 50,000 stray dogs are roaming the city’s streets, abandoned (http://www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2013-08-21/the-abandoned-dogs-that-roam-the-streets-of-detroit.html) by their owners when they fled town or could no longer afford to care for them. Innocent dogs left to fend for themselves on the streets of an empty city are traveling in packs, some 20 strong, struggling to survive.

One Humane Society official described the situation as “almost post-apocalyptic,” with homeless dogs moving among the barren wasteland of Detroit looking for food and shelter. To complicate the situation, the city’s animal shelters are bursting at the seems, too full of animals, too understaffed to handle those they have and in desperate need of operating funds.

In July, the pound stopped accepting more animals for a month because the city hadn’t paid a service that hauls away euthanized animals for cremation at a cost of about $20,000 a year. The freezers were packed with carcasses, and pens were full of live animals until the bill was paid.


One of the dominant breeds on the street is the much feared and often abused pit bull, a fixture in the widespread dog fighting rings in Detroit. The dogs, bred for aggression, have disturbed mail delivery in the city with 25 reports of Postal Service employees being bitten. One Detroit resident was scalped by two stray dogs who attacked her on the front porch of her home.


A sad and terrible consequence of a crumbling society, these abandoned dogs are now paying the price for the waste, corruption and mismanagement that has finally destroyed the once booming Motor City.

As a dog owner myself it is heartbreaking to see the desperate position these dogs face. If you would like to help the homeless pets of Detroit, contact the Michigan Humane Society (http://www.michiganhumane.org/site/PageServer#.UhUtarxQ1L8), the Michigan Animal Rescue League (http://www.michigananimalrescueleague.org/) or the pet charity of your choice.

luvmylabs23139
08-22-2013, 12:32 PM
I'll bet the majority of people attending sporting events do not actually live in Detroit but rather other areas.
The Tigers are leading their division. I'm sure plenty of Michigan residents go to the games.

Daniel J Simoens
08-22-2013, 01:35 PM
a potential back to back triple crown winner, that's why. although he's been looking rough at the plate recently and Chris Davis has found his swing again.

huntinman
08-22-2013, 01:39 PM
a potential back to back triple crown winner, that's why. although he's been looking rough at the plate recently and Chris Davis has found his swing again.

HGH wearing off? (My response is a statement on the state of the sport more than on MC)

Buzz
08-22-2013, 02:16 PM
This question confirms my suspicion that many like to comment about Detroit, even though they in reality know very little about the area. The Detroit Metro area, meaning the city and adjoining suburbs has a population of really close to 3.7 million people. Some of those suburbs are among the richest in the country. Of those 3.7 million, roughly 700,000 live within the city boundaries, and the majority of that 700,000 are among the metro area's poorest. Beginning back in the 1960's, right after the 1967 race riots in fact, there was massive flight from the city to the suburbs. The folks left are largely the folks who could not afford to leave. There are huge areas that are all but abandoned.

The team stadiums are located within the City of Detroit, and there are plenty of people in the metro area with MORE than enough money to attend a game.

http://origins.osu.edu/sites/default/files/2-8-map442.jpg

luvmylabs23139
08-22-2013, 02:52 PM
This question confirms my suspicion that many like to comment about Detroit, even though they in reality know very little about the area. The Detroit Metro area, meaning the city and adjoining suburbs has a population of really close to 3.7 million people. Some of those suburbs are among the richest in the country. Of those 3.7 million, roughly 700,000 live within the city boundaries, and the majority of that 700,000 are among the metro area's poorest. Beginning back in the 1960's, right after the 1967 race riots in fact, there was massive flight from the city to the suburbs. The folks left are largely the folks who could not afford to leave. There are huge areas that are all but abandoned.

The team stadiums are located within the City of Detroit, and there are plenty of people in the metro area with MORE than enough money to attend a game.

http://origins.osu.edu/sites/default/files/2-8-map442.jpg

Not really getting your point. What is wrong with those who do not live in Detroit paying to go to a game?
I'm sure if it is anything like even going to a Panthers game in Charlotte they are paying stupid money just for parking, 15 bucks for a beer etc.
Even worse going to a game at Metlife stadium.

Buzz
08-22-2013, 03:20 PM
Not really getting your point. What is wrong with those who do not live in Detroit paying to go to a game?
I'm sure if it is anything like even going to a Panthers game in Charlotte they are paying stupid money just for parking, 15 bucks for a beer etc.
Even worse going to a game at Metlife stadium.

Did I say there was anything wrong with it? I thought I was responding to UB's question:

"...how a city in bankrupcy like Detroit, can continue to 'sell-out' their baseball stadium every night? Over 40,000 attending for the Tigers, and when the football season begins, the Lions will have full stadiums as well. How are we supposed to feel badly for a city that exhibits that form of enjoyment?"

I was just trying to explain that while the city itself is really in dire straights, parts of the immediate surrounding area are doing quite well.

luvmylabs23139
08-22-2013, 03:26 PM
Did I say there was anything wrong with it? I thought I was responding to UB's question:

"...how a city in bankrupcy like Detroit, can continue to 'sell-out' their baseball stadium every night? Over 40,000 attending for the Tigers, and when the football season begins, the Lions will have full stadiums as well. How are we supposed to feel badly for a city that exhibits that form of enjoyment?"

I was just trying to explain that while the city itself is really in dire straights, parts of the immediate surrounding area are doing quite well.

Sorry. I read your comment wrong. If the teams were smart they would move out of Detriot and increase their revenue.

BonMallari
08-22-2013, 04:23 PM
for the non baseball fan the Tigers are a very good team, they feature a great pitcher in Justin Verlander a Triple Crown winner in Miguel Cabrera and a good longball threat in Prince Fielder...They put a good product on the field

BUT

the people attending those games are not your typical Michigander...have any of you attended and Professional sporting event lately..the ticket prices are astronomical bordering on the absurd,dont even mention the food/beer concessions...I cant even go watch a Dodger game for under $50 bucks

luvmylabs23139
08-22-2013, 04:40 PM
for the non baseball fan the Tigers are a very good team, they feature a great pitcher in Justin Verlander a Triple Crown winner in Miguel Cabrera and a good longball threat in Prince Fielder...They put a good product on the field

BUT

the people attending those games are not your typical Michigander...have any of you attended and Professional sporting event lately..the ticket prices are astronomical bordering on the absurd,dont even mention the food/beer concessions...I cant even go watch a Dodger game for under $50 bucks

We quit going to Panthers games (not our team but was a fun outing) when the cost of parking, a couple of beers, a couple of burgers was more than the tickets. Same for driving to Raleigh for hockey.
No big league baseball here but it is fun to go to Greensboro and watch the Grasshoppers. Something about Babe, Lou Lou, and Yogi
http://www.milb.com/news/print.jsp?ymd=20130626&content_id=51816850&vkey=news_t477&fext=.jsp&sid=t477

Whenever we go on vacation Magic and Buddy stay at Lou Lou's training camp.

road kill
08-22-2013, 04:45 PM
for the non baseball fan the Tigers are a very good team, they feature a great pitcher in Justin Verlander a Triple Crown winner in Miguel Cabrera and a good longball threat in Prince Fielder...They put a good product on the field

BUT

the people attending those games are not your typical Michigander...have any of you attended and Professional sporting event lately..the ticket prices are astronomical bordering on the absurd,dont even mention the food/beer concessions...I cant even go watch a Dodger game for under $50 bucks
Pretty soon only politicians and other ball players will be the only ones that can afford to go!!!!

huntinman
08-22-2013, 04:49 PM
I know enough about the Detroit area that you can go to my dads hometown of Dearborn Heights and hear the Muslim Call to Prayer over the Mosque loudspeakers.

Henlee
08-28-2013, 03:08 AM
The Tigers have the lowest ticket price of any MLB team. The Lions ticket prices are very high. Parking can be as much as $50 or as low as $15 if you don't minds walking. The Detroit fan base for sports is at least rabid. I am not surprised that they sell out. The illitch's that own the Tigers and the Redwings are huge supporters of the city and I could not see a situation in which they would leave. They have been and from what I can tell are investing more and more in the city.

The financial troubles in Detroit has as much to do with an eroding tax base from the near continuous decline in population since the 1950's. The city based on its geography (It is in the terms of square miles, one of the largest cities in the country) has infrastructure problems. They are unable to right size their services, because of the areas that need to be covered as far as police, firefighters etc. etc. are concerned. With decline of manufacturing Detroit was very hard hit. The jobs that remain are often taken up by people living outside of the city. people who live outside of the city, but work in the city are supposed to pay a tax. It is notoriously ignored. A recent request from Detroit Financial Manager Kevin Orr to have the state help collect the taxes, was rejected by Gov. Rick Snyder. The surrounding suburbs refuse to help the city with their costs, even though they gain a lot of benefit from the city. This along with the legacy pensions costs in a decreasing population has lead to an unstable financial model that was destined to fail at some point.

I do not want to ignore corruption either. Detroit (and I would assume Michigan) has some of the least transparent laws in regards to government. This has allowed for some serious abuses in the system. I would say the reasons I listed above are more the cause for Detroit's problems than anything else though.

Nate_C
08-28-2013, 08:29 AM
The Tigers have the lowest ticket price of any MLB team. The Lions ticket prices are very high. Parking can be as much as $50 or as low as $15 if you don't minds walking. The Detroit fan base for sports is at least rabid. I am not surprised that they sell out. The illitch's that own the Tigers and the Redwings are huge supporters of the city and I could not see a situation in which they would leave. They have been and from what I can tell are investing more and more in the city.

The financial troubles in Detroit has as much to do with an eroding tax base from the near continuous decline in population since the 1950's. The city based on its geography (It is in the terms of square miles, one of the largest cities in the country) has infrastructure problems. They are unable to right size their services, because of the areas that need to be covered as far as police, firefighters etc. etc. are concerned. With decline of manufacturing Detroit was very hard hit. The jobs that remain are often taken up by people living outside of the city. people who live outside of the city, but work in the city are supposed to pay a tax. It is notoriously ignored. A recent request from Detroit Financial Manager Kevin Orr to have the state help collect the taxes, was rejected by Gov. Rick Snyder. The surrounding suburbs refuse to help the city with their costs, even though they gain a lot of benefit from the city. This along with the legacy pensions costs in a decreasing population has lead to an unstable financial model that was destined to fail at some point.

I do not want to ignore corruption either. Detroit (and I would assume Michigan) has some of the least transparent laws in regards to government. This has allowed for some serious abuses in the system. I would say the reasons I listed above are more the cause for Detroit's problems than anything else though.

I actually think it is the latter. The corruption and I would add one more, the unreal expectations of the citizens who all have their handout, particularly unionized labor that run the city and the government that never meet a tax they didn't like. As far as the eroding tax base, it did start the issues but many cities in the US face the same issue. The first one that comes to mind is Pittsburgh. But they realized the issue earlier and actually did something about it to attract other people and businesses. Back in the 80's and 90's Detroit could have attracted other businesses particularly other car manufactures from other countries. They wold have been perfect to get a Toyota or Honda factory but their dogged support of the AWU and high taxes scared them away. Now the city is to much of a wreck to attract anyone.

Cal99
08-28-2013, 08:30 AM
State of the Art sports stadiums were built and the teams have moved back into Detroit in the past few years. This has helped support surrounding businesses who prosper from the suburbs spending money at their establishments. The core root of the problem has been the corrupt govt and city leaders who were involved in stealing millions of dollars and taking kickbacks to pad their pockets. This had been going on for years at the expense of the citizens. The rich suburbs you speak of are few, and I would imagine the same near any metro area across the United States, most here are middle class. Detroit is a beautiful gem, with the right management, job creation, youth intervention, blight renovation, it can be turned around one day and prosper once again. Detroit born and proud to be a part of this great city.

Buzz
08-28-2013, 09:10 AM
State of the Art sports stadiums were built and the teams have moved back into Detroit in the past few years. This has helped support surrounding businesses who prosper from the suburbs spending money at their establishments. The core root of the problem has been the corrupt govt and city leaders who were involved in stealing millions of dollars and taking kickbacks to pad their pockets. This had been going on for years at the expense of the citizens. The rich suburbs you speak of are few, and I would imagine the same near any metro area across the United States, most here are middle class. Detroit is a beautiful gem, with the right management, job creation, youth intervention, blight renovation, it can be turned around one day and prosper once again. Detroit born and proud to be a part of this great city.

I didn't mean to imply that all the surrounding suburbs were "wealthy." I just wanted to point out that in the region, within an hour or so drive, there are plenty of folks who can afford a day at the ballpark. Granted it's getting harder to afford all the time. I have lived in Detroit, Livonia, Plymouth, Ypsilanti, Ann Arbor, and Northville. I still own a condo in Northville & hope to spend more time there after my daughter finishes high school.

Raymond Little
08-28-2013, 10:53 AM
Read a book by Charlie Leduff called Detriot: An American Autopsy last week. Great read for those who want an insite of how it came to be a $hithole.

Uncle Bill
08-28-2013, 10:53 AM
It was good news to hear of the new "clean-up" program in the city. All the abandoned buildings no longer usable are being completely torn down and removed. That's bound to paint a better picture of the city, and I suspect it will get some investors more interested in building some new facilities that should attract new inhabitants. I wish them the best.

UB

Cal99
08-28-2013, 10:55 AM
No offense taken :p GO TIGERS!

Henlee
08-29-2013, 12:07 PM
When Detroit declared bankruptcy it was on 18.5 billion dollars. How much of that can be from corruption? Some for sure, but a majority of it I couldn't get my mind around. We do know also that there pension fund was underfunded for years and that was before the 2008 crash.

zeus3925
08-29-2013, 05:30 PM
I actually think it is the latter. The corruption and I would add one more, the unreal expectations of the citizens who all have their handout, particularly unionized labor that run the city and the government that never meet a tax they didn't like. As far as the eroding tax base, it did start the issues but many cities in the US face the same issue. The first one that comes to mind is Pittsburgh. But they realized the issue earlier and actually did something about it to attract other people and businesses. Back in the 80's and 90's Detroit could have attracted other businesses particularly other car manufactures from other countries. They wold have been perfect to get a Toyota or Honda factory but their dogged support of the AWU and high taxes scared them away. Now the city is to much of a wreck to attract anyone.

What is the AWU?

zeus3925
08-29-2013, 06:42 PM
Racism is most dominate factor in Detroit 's decline. It has always had a troubled relationship among races. The city was a major northern outpost of the KKK during the 20's and 30's. This led to civil unrest with the Packard incident and the race riots of 1943. The Twelfth Street Riot in 1967 is the major event that started the city's decline with white flight to the suburbs.

This was catalyzed by an unscrupulous practice of block tipping by some real estate brokers. ( Block tipping used a practice whereby the realtors would play on the fears of white residents of black people. They would attempt to get black families to move into a neighborhood. They knew if the ratio of black to white would reach a certain level the whites would take flight and move to the suburbs.) The realtors were most aggressive in this practice.

The mechanization of of southern agriculture coupled with southern bus ticket welfare provided a population of impoverished and poorly educated people who had few employable skills in an industrial environment. The advent of street drugs and an insane murder rate also drove the flight of upper and middle class families out of the city.

The result was a city demographic that looks like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Racial_Divide_Detroit_MI.png

The income map looks like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Economic_map_of_metropolitan_Detroit.jpg

Socks
08-29-2013, 08:41 PM
The short answer is that anyone, regardless of color, that can move out of Detroit does so.

Henlee
08-30-2013, 02:27 AM
I love Detroit, but one would be nuts to live there. The taxes are like 2 1/2 times what I pay now. The police response time is nothing short of a joke. The neighborhoods would be fine, if you have a lot of money. If you do not though it is a pretty bad. I would like to call the school system a joke, but it would make you cry to look at it. Some of these are being addressed, but the problem is big and will not be fixed soon.

Nate_C
08-30-2013, 07:55 AM
What is the AWU?

Sorry typo UAW.

Nate_C
08-30-2013, 08:00 AM
Racism is most dominate factor in Detroit 's decline. It has always had a troubled relationship among races. The city was a major northern outpost of the KKK during the 20's and 30's. This led to civil unrest with the Packard incident and the race riots of 1943. The Twelfth Street Riot in 1967 is the major event that started the city's decline with white flight to the suburbs.

This was catalyzed by an unscrupulous practice of block tipping by some real estate brokers. ( Block tipping used a practice whereby the realtors would play on the fears of white residents of black people. They would attempt to get black families to move into a neighborhood. They knew if the ratio of black to white would reach a certain level the whites would take flight and move to the suburbs.) The realtors were most aggressive in this practice.

The mechanization of of southern agriculture coupled with southern bus ticket welfare provided a population of impoverished and poorly educated people who had few employable skills in an industrial environment. The advent of street drugs and an insane murder rate also drove the flight of upper and middle class families out of the city.

The result was a city demographic that looks like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Racial_Divide_Detroit_MI.png

The income map looks like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Economic_map_of_metropolitan_Detroit.jpg

I bet almost as many people moved to Chicago on the bus ticket program as to Detroit. Luckily Chicago though it suffers some of the same problems has a diversified economy and has been for the most part been OK.

Nate_C
08-30-2013, 08:09 AM
When Detroit declared bankruptcy it was on 18.5 billion dollars. How much of that can be from corruption? Some for sure, but a majority of it I couldn't get my mind around. We do know also that there pension fund was underfunded for years and that was before the 2008 crash.

It can account for a lot, but it is indirect. Corruption cost more then just what the corrupt make. A politician takes a $20,000 kick back from a construction company that is awarded a 20 million dollar project that they shouldn't have gotten and it ends up costing the city 2 million dollars in extra repair costs or over billings. Another politician gets a $50,000 donation from a union and signs off on a overly beneficial contract that cost the city an extra 10 million over it's life time.......ect........ Politicians both caused by both corruption, incompetence, and misguided liberal views of economics, driven by unrealistic expectations of the general public did cause a majority of what has happened in Detroit.

zeus3925
08-30-2013, 08:20 AM
I bet almost as many people moved to Chicago on the bus ticket program as to Detroit. Luckily Chicago though it suffers some of the same problems has a diversified economy and has been for the most part been OK.

There is a tendency to blame Detroit's woes on a single issue or group. It really is a much more complicated than that. The charge that the UAW being the driving force in Detroit's demise is vastly overstated. The guys working in the plants just screw the cars together. Detroit auto manufacturers had gotten into a style of engineering whose tag line was:" Blow it out he door, we'll fix it later". Remember such wonders as the flaming Pinto, the melt before your eyes Vega, stall at every intersection Valiant, a computer a month Cordoba, the hanger queen Citation, the roll over Corvair, the butt ugly Aztec, the beach ball spawned Pacer etc.? The guys on the line weren't responsible for those kinds of disasters.

Detroit is a city that has morphed into what it is by racism, politics, drugs, government ineptitude, and corruption. No company is willing to stick around in a drowning town.