PDA

View Full Version : Mexican Drug Cartels



Gerry Clinchy
08-27-2013, 10:15 PM
A Mexican court ordered Quintero’s release after ruling he had been improperly tried in a federal court for state crimes. The decision and early-morning release of Quintero came as a surprise to U.S. authorities.



Between 2006 and 2012, more than 70,000 people have died from drug-related fighting, a spokesperson from the Mexico’s western state of Michoacan said. Since January 2013, 6,000 people have died.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/27/drug-agents-shocked-release/#ixzz2dEJu0zzN
We're ticked off at Syria ... and 70,000 have died due to the drug cartels in Mexico!

Henlee
08-28-2013, 03:11 AM
I would support Special Forces Intervention, similar to what we provided for Columbia in the 90's.

Franco
08-28-2013, 06:29 AM
Our drug policies support people like Quintero. Our government has made them all rich beyond comprehension. Just like we financed the mob is the 1920's. Our government's policies creates the lucrative Black Market.

Capt. Goose Slayer 3059
08-28-2013, 07:55 AM
Drug cartels take billions of dollars out of the U.S. each year and these funds are used to build private armys. These I'll gotten gains are also used to fund terrorist activities. Before the Obamanator was elected these folks were correct characterized as Narco Terrorist. And yes these narco terrorist kill thousands in Mexico and around the world each year. Including police officers,federal agents etc. I guess they will get the attention and intervention they so richly deserve when the use chemical gas as opposed to bombs,guns and rpgs thank you for letting me rant.

Nate_C
08-28-2013, 08:09 AM
Our drug policies support people like Quintero. Our government has made them all rich beyond comprehension. Just like we financed the mob is the 1920's. Our government's policies creates the lucrative Black Market.

So we should legalize meth and Cocaine? You are right the Drug war purpose isn't to stop drugs from getting across the boarder, we can never stop it completely, but it is to make it less available and more expensive. this reduces the number of people that try it the first time. That is the key. Sure it enriches Mexican drug lords but I would rather have that then 10 million coke head college students. The problem is the Mexican (as a nation) culture. they don't understand Democracy and that to have it we must be intolerant of corruption and crime on a large scale and must make sacrifices to preserve the state.

We had our own battles with this in the 20's and 30's but the majority of the nation always fought against it and kept it in check. The Mexican government has done almost nothing to keep their issues in check.

Franco
08-28-2013, 08:35 AM
So we should legalize meth and Cocaine? You are right the Drug war purpose isn't to stop drugs from getting across the boarder, we can never stop it completely, but it is to make it less available and more expensive. this reduces the number of people that try it the first time. That is the key. Sure it enriches Mexican drug lords but I would rather have that then 10 million coke head college students. The problem is the Mexican (as a nation) culture. they don't understand Democracy and that to have it we must be intolerant of corruption and crime on a large scale and must make sacrifices to preserve the state.

We had our own battles with this in the 20's and 30's but the majority of the nation always fought against it and kept it in check. The Mexican government has done almost nothing to keep their issues in check.I'm not alone in thinking that the War on Drugs is a failure. There is no research that shows that drug abuse will increase if we take it out of the drug cartels. In fact, drug abuse has gone down in the one country that has legalized it. Better to save the money, use a small portion of it on drug education and make the drug users register with their state. Not only would this defund many of the cartels, it would also take a huge bite out of local crime.

mudminnow
08-28-2013, 08:44 AM
So we should legalize meth and Cocaine? You are right the Drug war purpose isn't to stop drugs from getting across the boarder, we can never stop it completely, but it is to make it less available and more expensive. this reduces the number of people that try it the first time. That is the key. Sure it enriches Mexican drug lords but I would rather have that then 10 million coke head college students. The problem is the Mexican (as a nation) culture. they don't understand Democracy and that to have it we must be intolerant of corruption and crime on a large scale and must make sacrifices to preserve the state.

We had our own battles with this in the 20's and 30's but the majority of the nation always fought against it and kept it in check. The Mexican government has done almost nothing to keep their issues in check.

We had our own battles and what happened? Prohibition ended.

I am tired of people blaming America's problems on other countries. We create our own problems. I would argue that we don't understand democracy, we are tolerant of corruption, and we sacrifice others to act like we are preserving the state.
I am not America bashing just to America bash. And I wish I could insert a humility icon because I too supported so many things that I am against now. My people are conservative Christians, as am I, and we get bent out of shape on the drug issue. We think that if we stop the war on drugs and legalize them that people are going to make bad decisions because the government is not enforcing morals.

Is it a sin to take cocaine, meth, heroin, etc? Is it a sin to smoke a joint? the answer is No! It is a sin to get addicted to drugs because they become an idol. Drugs become the reason for some to live, their protection for others, and a source of comfort to most. The exact same parallel can be made for conservative Christians who look to the government for their source of protection and comfort. Their is no distinguishing moral difference between the drug addict and the statist.

There is much research that shows when prohibition is ended use of the prohibited substance also decreases. When are we going to realize in America that the government cannot be our mother, especially when it can't balance its own checkbook

Gerry Clinchy
08-28-2013, 09:15 AM
I think there is a difference between hard drugs and alcohol. I'm undecided on marijuana.

I do not know for a fact (but perhaps someone else does), but it appears that fewer people become alcoholics than become drug addicts. (again, speaking hard drugs).

Alcohol is not exactly cheap in most places in the US, yet how much crime is related to an alcoholic committing crimes to feed their habit? (comparing to drugs) Do alcoholics beat up people to get money for alcohol? Is gun crime often associated with alcoholism? From what I hear, drugs may not cost as much as a pack of cigarettes in NYC. Do people shoot other people to get $ for cigarettes and alcohol in NYC? or Chicago? or Detroit?

If drugs were legal, regulated and taxed (as are alcohol and cigarettes), would they be cheap enough so that everyone who wanted to use them could buy them? If not, would they still be committing violent crimes to get their drugs?

If drugs were not cheap enough, would there still be a black market, which would continue to feed the drug cartels? Would the drug cartels just become "legal" suppliers? If they did, would that change their thug behavior when they wanted to keep competition in check?

Some of these drugs, even if they were legal and regulated, would still be drugs that cause violent behavior. Drunk driving is a problem. We still have drunk drivers, and they still "get off" with sentences that don't change their behaviors ... until maybe they kill an innocent person.

I think that these are legitimate questions to ask. If we want to solve a problem, it is easy to think of how a certain solution will result in benefit. It is more complex and difficult to anticipate the unintended consequences. Obamacare comes to mind.

Just food for thought.

Henlee
08-28-2013, 10:35 AM
I agree with the war on drugs being a failure. I am very unsure about legalization of all drugs however, seems like there could be some unintended consequences there. The bigger threat from the Cartels however is their ability to destabilize the Mexican Government and their ability to move illegal products and people into the US. Some of the people killed were also US citizens, that means they are at least flirting with being a threat to our national security. Not time for war, but perhaps time to be identifying and when prudent removing problems.

HPL
08-28-2013, 10:53 AM
I think that you will find that different substances cause addiction at different rates, but there are lots more alcoholics out there than you think. I will also say that alcohol is a BIG problem in lots of ways. I don't have the statistics, but I'd wager that alcohol is involved in a fair portion of murders, rapes, assaults, robberies, domestic violence, child abuse, and property crimes ( not to mention automobile accidents and other causes for emergency room visits). I have photographed plenty of places where the alcohol was flowing like water and when someone gets out of hand its invariably the guy or gal that has had several too many, not the teetotaler. It was a drunk guy who started the fight after the Quail Banquet saturday night and a stone sober fellow who ended it.

I am tired of spending money on the "war on drugs" unless we are going to actually fight a war on drugs. That means all out military intervention at the point of production. Napalm strikes on foreign ground. Commandos in to find and kill the producers and distributers. Armed aircraft to hunt down and sink the boats transporting the drugs, etc. If we are going to spend our treasure I want to see real results with a possibility of winning. That means invading Mexico, Columbia, Ecuador, etc. That means an effective fence with armed military patrols all along both borders.

For me (as one of those teetotalers) the better option would be to legalize ALL recreational drugs. Treat addiction as a disease, and have a serious sentence enhancement for any crime committed under the influence of ANY drug (including alcohol). Mandatory draconian sentences for anyone who harms another while under the influence of ANY drug (including alcohol). Mandatory draconian sentences for anyone who sells drugs to the underage. Tax it all.

RetrieverNation
08-28-2013, 10:54 AM
There is much research that shows when prohibition is ended use of the prohibited substance also decreases. When are we going to realize in America that the government cannot be our mother, especially when it can't balance its own checkbook

It will start when our mothers realize they should not so heavily rely on the government to cure parenting issues. Its ironic how these countries that supply the drugs have the easiest access at the lowest prices and somehow their society continues to function.

mudminnow
08-28-2013, 11:00 AM
Good questions Gerry and they point to the main ideological difference that is underlying the rift in the republican party. Individualism vs. Collectivism. Is it the individuals role to be dictated by the government or to dictate the government. There will never be a solution that ends drug use, and alcohol abuse it much more prevalent than drug abuse. But many drug abusers have an alcohol problem. Is alcohol the true gateway drug? how far down the line do we go to try to stop people from making bad decisions. And the further we go, the more governmental interference we have in our lives. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? that depends where you are on the collectivist/individualist scale

HPL
08-28-2013, 11:12 AM
It will start when our mothers realize they should not so heavily rely on the government to cure parenting issues. Its ironic how these countries that supply the drugs have the easiest access at the lowest prices and somehow their society continues to function.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Mexico is a basket case; pretty much a third world (not second world) country with limited infrastructure, unreliable drinking water, poor sanitation, etc. and really at the base, a failed state. Same can be said of the Central American countries that are the main suppliers of cocaine. The countries where heroin poppies are grown are mostly populated by smelly, uneducated, starving, rope sandal wearing goat herders living in mud huts with no electricity, running water, sewer systems, etc. Not really what I would call functioning compared to how things work here.

HPL
08-28-2013, 11:15 AM
Good questions Gerry and they point to the main ideological difference that is underlying the rift in the republican party. Individualism vs. Collectivism. Is it the individuals role to be dictated by the government or to dictate the government. There will never be a solution that ends drug use, and alcohol abuse it much more prevalent than drug abuse. But many drug abusers have an alcohol problem. Is alcohol the true gateway drug? how far down the line do we go to try to stop people from making bad decisions. And the further we go, the more governmental interference we have in our lives. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? that depends where you are on the collectivist/individualist scale

I have said for years that the folks I knew in school who smoked dope got their first high by stealing beer from their parents' fridge. I just about guarantee that a large percentage of drug users get started on beer or cheap wine.

HPL
08-28-2013, 11:23 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavored_fortified_wines

Franco
08-28-2013, 12:21 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavored_fortified_wines

Those would be the #1 selling alcoholic bevarges in the USA by liquid volume outselling beer! Talk about a rough hangover/headache! I drank some Thunderbird once in my youth and puked for days! No telling what kind of crap they put in those bottles.