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View Full Version : Million Muslims March In DC on 9/11



Franco
09-09-2013, 02:06 PM
Surprised it hasn't made POTUS Place! They are planning their march on Wednesday and of all days, the anniversary of 9/11. There are a lot of groups that aren't to happy about this and plan on being there. Should be interesting to see what happens. .................................................. .... "AMPAC will be forcefully announcing its presence with a “Million Muslim March” on the White House on September 11, 2013. The goal, announced at AMPAC’s press conference in New York:

“We at AMPAC (American Muslim Political Action Committee) are planning a historic event for 9/11/13. One million Muslims will march to Washington D.C. and demand that our civil rights be protected by our government. We are demanding that laws be enacted protecting our First Amendment rights. We are asking President Obama to fulfill his promise from his first campaign for the Presidency of a transparent government. Lastly we are asking for the establishment of a real 9/11 Commission to reveal the truth to the American people.”

AMPAC founder M.D. Rabbi Alam, a well-known Missouri Democratic Party organizer, points out that
American Muslims, like other Americans, were targeted on 9/11. More than 60 Muslims were murdered in the explosive demolitions of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11, and a mosque in the South Tower was annihilated. Alam points out that “Muslim and non-Muslim alike were traumatized by 9/11, but we as Muslims continue twelve years later to be victimized by being made the villains.”

Raymond Little
09-09-2013, 02:42 PM
Errybody better gas up and get a Slurpy on 9/10, gonna be a bunch of gas stations closed.;-)

Franco
09-09-2013, 04:08 PM
Should be plenty of fake Rolex watches and fake Costa sunglasses for sale in DC on Wednesday. P S....I'm fishing Big Lake Sept18 - 21, staying at Spicer's Marina. Grab a rod and join me.

Buzz
09-09-2013, 04:55 PM
Errybody better gas up and get a Slurpy on 9/10, gonna be a bunch of gas stations closed.;-)

That's funny right there...

M&K's Retrievers
09-09-2013, 05:29 PM
That's funny right there...

It is but then again it isn't.

Gerry Clinchy
09-09-2013, 07:48 PM
I think it's kind of interesting that it would appear that Christians seem more maligned these days than anybody else, but the Muslims are doing the marching. I think they would have made their point better by choosing another date.

What laws would have to be made that would apply to Muslims that would not also apply to other religions? Don't we already have a bunch of those kinds of laws?

GaryJ
09-09-2013, 08:06 PM
I think it's kind of interesting that it would appear that Christians seem more maligned these days than anybody else, but the Muslims are doing the marching. I think they would have made their point better by choosing another date.

What laws would have to be made that would apply to Muslims that would not also apply to other religions? Don't we already have a bunch of those kinds of laws?

I thought so too. It seems like everyone who thinks they are a minority deserve to have their own laws.

Franco
09-09-2013, 08:12 PM
I thought so too. It seems like everyone who thinks they are a minority deserve to have their own parade.

Fixed it for you;)

GaryJ
09-09-2013, 08:20 PM
Fixed it for you;)

You get a big E for effort. A lot of what I write may need fixing but not his time. :D

john fallon
09-09-2013, 08:41 PM
Some irate "motorcyclists" who claim to be 2 million strong, wanted to stage a counter-protest "march" but were denied a permit to do so.

john

GaryJ
09-09-2013, 08:58 PM
Some irate "motorcyclists" who claim to be 2 million strong, wanted to stage a counter-protest "march" but were denied a permit to do so.

john

Probably because the DC police wouldn't know how to handle the crowd if, and that is a big IF, all the folks show up.

Dan Storts
09-09-2013, 09:36 PM
They are still going to ride through D.C. However, instead of getting a free pass on traffic lights, which is what a permit grants, they will be stopping at every red light. Thus, instead of taking a 1-1 1/2 hours to proceed though D.C. it will likely take 3-5 hours. This equals a traffic nightmare and more chances for issues to arise while being stopped at the lights.

Ken Bora
09-09-2013, 09:50 PM
They are still going to ride through D.C. ....

Good, God Bless them!

Marvin S
09-09-2013, 11:10 PM
I think it's kind of interesting that it would appear that Christians seem more maligned these days than anybody else, but the Muslims are doing the marching. I think they would have made their point better by choosing another date.

What laws would have to be made that would apply to Muslims that would not also apply to other religions? Don't we already have a bunch of those kinds of laws?

As with many, tone deaf fits - We are a nation that angers slowly, this type of action will not help them with those who count.

sick lids
09-10-2013, 04:53 PM
I thought they cancelled this. I think this is as distasteful as a bunch of Americans marching in Hiroshima on that anniversary.

shawninthesticks
09-10-2013, 05:15 PM
Ahhh,but if "Americans" show resistance against this we would be considered racist, and picking on the pour muslims.


To hell with them, they can march their a$$'s back across the pond. It's sickening knowing that freedom of speech and religion are now only for the Illegal Mexicans ,Muslims and the rest of the of the bastards that want to take over this country. Equal rights my _____!

I hope the motorcycle heads do burn outs on their turbans.

Franco
09-10-2013, 05:19 PM
From France to Finland, there are political movements to stop Muslims from immigrating to their countries because of crap like this! This is the latest News and it looks like they have changed their name. "The demonstration originally called the "Million Muslim March" now has an explicitly secular name, the "Million American March Against Fear," organizer Isa Hodge stressed in a Friday interview with U.S. News.

Media coverage of the event, scheduled for the 12th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, exploded earlier this week. Hodge said he's irritated that many reports used the original name, which he says was changed in February after the addition of groups that doubt the official account of the 2001 attacks.
"They're focusing on what it was [called] before February to continue the misinformation and fear that we're trying to stop," Hodge said. "It's more sensational if they can put out there that it's just Muslims going to dance on the graves of the 3,000 souls that were lost that day.
Protesters will instead take to the National Mall to denounce government surveillance and call for "the truth" about the attacks, Hodge says."

Gerry Clinchy
09-11-2013, 12:10 PM
http://therightscoop.com/here-they-come-video-of-2-million-bikers-group-on-their-way-to-dc/
Hundreds of bikers heading to DC. This video was supposedly taken in VA.

The bikers never got their permit, which would have afforded them synchronized traffic signals. However, they can still go there as long as they abide by the traffic laws.

Gerry Clinchy
09-11-2013, 12:14 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=361751157289693&set=a.273693756095434.65148.246721295459347&type=1&ref=nf

another great photo of the bikers

Franco
09-11-2013, 12:32 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=361751157289693&set=a.273693756095434.65148.246721295459347&type=1&ref=nf

another great photo of the bikers Awesome photo! I had to see what the media on the left had to report today. Looks like those million Muslims will only be a couple of hundred;) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/million-muslim-march_n_3906303.html

Gerry Clinchy
09-11-2013, 12:49 PM
The article also mentioned that 3000 bikers were expected. If the photos we're seeing of the bikers is at all accurate, therre are going to be more than 3000 of them.

Gerry Clinchy
09-11-2013, 12:56 PM
Seen on Facebook:

Apparently the riders in the 2MillionBikerstoDC are all riding with the name of a victim that died on 9/11. Very appropriate.

Gerry Clinchy
09-11-2013, 03:13 PM
Just a Facebook report, but it was mentioned that there appear to be about 860,000 bikers!

Buzz
09-11-2013, 04:55 PM
What a joke. A bunch of redneck bikers and Faux News viewers getting themselves all worked up over nothing.

road kill
09-11-2013, 05:05 PM
What a joke. A bunch of redneck bikers and Faux News viewers getting themselves all worked up over nothing.

Yeah, who do they think they are, taking off work to stand up for the America they believe in.

Rednecks, Fox news...................who do they think they are?
What a joke!

Now. CNN and the Muslims, that's legit!

Golddogs
09-11-2013, 05:21 PM
Awesome photo! I had to see what the media on the left had to report today. Looks like those million Muslims will only be a couple of hundred;) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/million-muslim-march_n_3906303.html


Probably stayed home in case the drones came out.

Golddogs
09-11-2013, 05:37 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=361751157289693&set=a.273693756095434.65148.246721295459347&type=1&ref=nf

another great photo of the bikers


"What better way to surround Muslims than with several thousand hogs"

A quote from one of the social media sites.

road kill
09-11-2013, 05:42 PM
"What better way to surround Muslims than with several thousand hogs"

A quote from one of the social media sites.

That is funny right there, I don't care who you are!

M&K's Retrievers
09-11-2013, 06:30 PM
What a joke. A bunch of redneck bikers and Faux News viewers getting themselves all worked up over nothing.

You can't be serious.

caryalsobrook
09-11-2013, 09:22 PM
You can't be serious.

Oh yes he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GaryJ
09-11-2013, 09:46 PM
Yeah, who do they think they are, taking off work to stand up for the America they believe in.

Rednecks, Fox news...................who do they think they are?
What a joke!

Now. CNN and the Muslims, that's legit!

Exactly X2

huntinman
09-11-2013, 10:34 PM
What a joke. A bunch of redneck bikers and Faux News viewers getting themselves all worked up over nothing.

Nice. True colors... For the bikers it's red, white and blue.

If you think 9/11 is nothing, there is no helping you.

Buzz
09-12-2013, 08:46 AM
Nice. True colors... For the bikers it's red, white and blue.

If you think 9/11 is nothing, there is no helping you.


WTF? I didn't say that 9/11 was nothing.

What I'm saying is that a tiny fringe event attended by a few had a huge magnifying glass put on it by conservative outrage and thousands of bikers who decided to ride to DC to protest.

But thanks for putting words in my mouth anyway...

Ken Bora
09-12-2013, 08:58 AM
What I'm saying is that a tiny fringe event attended by a few had a huge magnifying glass put on it ...

Gosh, maybe THEY should thought of that afore THEY hijacked the airplains!

LabskeBill
09-12-2013, 09:05 AM
[QUOTE=Golddogs;1145258]"What better way to surround Muslims than with several thousand hogs"

Awesome idea!

Buzz
09-12-2013, 09:07 AM
Gosh, maybe THEY should thought of that afore THEY hijacked the airplains!


??????

Are we talking about the same thing? The original intent of those bikers was to go counter protest the million muslim march. An event that no one would have even noticed had there not been such a big deal made of it. I didn't know that THEY were the ones who hijacked the airplanes.

Ken Bora
09-12-2013, 09:34 AM
. I didn't know that THEY were the ones who hijacked the airplanes.

Wrong THEY:rolleyes:
when the devout sons Ishmael were sitting around planning the 9/11 attack,
they should have realized the close scrutiny we would have for all of their Ilk for ever after.
Would you like me to get you a box?
.

Ken Bora
09-12-2013, 09:37 AM
btw do we have any numbers yet? did the muslims have a million??

M&K's Retrievers
09-12-2013, 10:10 AM
WTF? I didn't say that 9/11 was nothing.

What I'm saying is that a tiny fringe event attended by a few had a huge magnifying glass put on it by conservative outrage and thousands of bikers who decided to ride to DC to protest.

But thanks for putting words in my mouth anyway...

Maybe someone should after you remove your foot.

Gerry Clinchy
09-12-2013, 10:11 AM
Ken, the estimates for the "March Against Fear" were between 25 to 200. Wonder if the popular reaction to the march had anything to do with the small turnout?

Seems that about a million bikers turned out. While traffic was snarled, the reaction to the people in the traffic was kind of remarkable. The reports I saw were that they accepted the delay and actually waved to the bikers. Some photos show the streets lined with people watching the caravan of bikers.

The photos on regular media seemed to focus on the small ceremony of the "marchers" ... the "added" groups to the "march against fear" were from groups who promoted the idea that the 9/11 attacks were a work of the govt, not terrorists.

Not much reported was that there was a counter-demonstration of Christians. Saw nothing further reported on that, so it also must have been quite small.

There were a couple of traffic accidents, but I think it's worth noting that the demonstration seemed very peaceful. Did not turn out to be a police problem ... remarkable when you're talking about a million-person demonstration. Maybe more news of police problems will come out in the next few days?

Actually, I'm not sure I saw much at all about the bikers' demonstration on Fox ... most of the coverage occurred through the social networks ... the same way that it got organized.

I did see at least one comment that speculated, that the govt should have some concern that it could be very easy to mobilize a "militia" if the govt exceeded its authority and truly enraged the citizenry. A lot easier and far-reaching than hanging a couple of lanterns in the North Church and a guy riding a horse through the night to spread the news. Of course, with the NSA monitoring social media and lots of other communications, govt could keep track of what was happening & work on stopping such a movement.

Buzz
09-12-2013, 10:18 AM
Ken, the estimates for the "March Against Fear" were between 25 to 200.


Like I said, nothing like putting a huge magnifying glass on a tiny fringe event.


I think it's kind of interesting that it would appear that Christians seem more maligned these days than anybody else, but the Muslims are doing the marching.

Besides the Westboro Baptist idiots, what Christian events draw this kind of reaction?

Gerry Clinchy
09-12-2013, 10:20 AM
From FB ...

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS YOU'VE BEEN ASKING~~
YES, WE RIDE AGAIN NEXT YEAR
YES, WE WILL KEEP THIS PAGE GOING
& LAST REPORTS WE HEARD, RIDERS WERE ESTIMATED AT 1.2 MILLION

huntinman
09-12-2013, 10:29 AM
Buzz, I would be willing to bet that many of those bikers were not "conservative rednecks" as you suggest, not that there is anything wrong with all of those that I know and am related to.

Why, I imagine there may have even been a lib or two in the bunch. I just don't believe there is enough of whatever koolaid you are drinking to poison the entire liberal mindset.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Buzz
09-12-2013, 10:39 AM
Buzz, I would be willing to bet that many of those bikers were not "conservative rednecks" as you suggest, not that there is anything wrong with all of those that I know and am related to.

Why, I imagine there may have even been a lib or two in the bunch. I just don't believe there is enough of whatever koolaid you are drinking to poison the entire liberal mindset.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Not drinking any Koolaid. I'm pretty much in the same boat as menmon. I've hardly watched or read a bit of news all summer. Way too much too do and too little time to do it. I'll be damned if I'm going to waste it on the talking heads. The only reason I know anything about this event is the thread here on RTF, which prompted me to do a couple searches to find out what was going on.

Really, life is so much better without the talking heads... No getting caught up in fake controversy.

luvmylabs23139
09-12-2013, 10:59 AM
Really, life is so much better without the talking heads... No getting caught up in fake controversy.

For those of us that lost people we know that day it is not a "fake controversy".

swampcollielover
09-12-2013, 11:12 AM
Not drinking any Koolaid. I'm pretty much in the same boat as menmon. I've hardly watched or read a bit of news all summer. Way too much too do and too little time to do it. I'll be damned if I'm going to waste it on the talking heads. The only reason I know anything about this event is the thread here on RTF, which prompted me to do a couple searches to find out what was going on.

Really, life is so much better without the talking heads... No getting caught up in fake controversy.

Buzz..why do you waste our time on this sight if in fact "you have no facts".....? Perhaps keeping up on current events may help you frame you thoughts going forward?

shawninthesticks
09-12-2013, 11:30 AM
I read this and it seems to be spot on.



One Pissed off Canadian Housewife
This is very good PLEASE read....

Thought you might like to read this letter
to the editor. Ever notice how some people
just seem to know how to write a letter?


This one surely does!


This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how
it also applies to the U.S.A., U.K. and Australia .


THIS ONE PACKS A FIRM PUNCH

Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to
her local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady...


"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was
it or was it not, started by Islamic people who
brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?


Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered
that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from
the capitol of the USA and in a field in Pennsylvania ?


Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

Do you think I care about four U. S. Marines urinating on some dead Taliban insurgents?

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were
claiming to be tortured by a justice system of a
nation they are fighting against in a brutal Insurgency.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle
East, start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief
of which, is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan .


I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are
sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head, while Berg
screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.


I'll care when the cowardly so-called insurgents
in Afghanistan , come out and fight like men,
instead of disrespecting their own religion by
hiding in Mosques and behind women and children.


I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow
themselves up in search of Nirvana, care about the
innocent children within range of their suicide Bombs.


I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that
their freedom of Speech on stories, is more important than
the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting
at home, to hear about them when something happens.


In the meantime, when I hear a story about a
CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent
terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the
head when he is told not to move because he
might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:


I don't care. Shoot him again.


When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed 'special' food, that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe, in your heart of hearts:

I don't care.


And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes
it's spelled 'Koran' and other times 'Quran.'
Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it.


I don't care!!


If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to
all your E-mail Friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to
the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!


If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete
button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't
complain when more atrocities committed by radical
Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:


Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if
during their life on earth, they made a difference in
the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.

I have another quote that I would like to
share AND...I hope you forward All this.


One last thought for the day:


Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:


1. Jesus Christ


2. The British Soldier.


3. The Canadian Soldier.


4. The US Soldier, and


5. The Australian Soldier


One died for your soul,
the other four, for you and your children's Freedom.




YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON,
AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET!

LabskeBill
09-12-2013, 11:51 AM
Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!

Buzz
09-12-2013, 12:21 PM
Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to
her local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady...





Actually, no it wasn't. It was written by a freelance writer from Nebraska in 2005 and published by GOPUSA.

http://web.archive.org/web/20051123162549/http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/dpatton/2005/dp_0606p.shtml

huntinman
09-12-2013, 12:38 PM
Buzz..why do you waste our time on this sight if in fact "you have no facts".....? Perhaps keeping up on current events may help you frame you thoughts going forward?

He's just trying to help enlighten a few of us hayseeds.

Gerry Clinchy
09-13-2013, 12:02 AM
Via the internet, seems that the news of the bikers' ride got to A'stan ... and
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=567856926603109&set=a.109876105734529.21441.103875636334576&type=1&ref=nf

Pete
09-13-2013, 08:07 AM
Buzz..why do you waste our time on this sight if in fact "you have no facts".....? Perhaps keeping up on current events may help you frame you thoughts going forward?
The problem with facts is everybody has their own it seems.
I have read a fair amount of the original report. I then compared it to what engineers, architects, and in the private sector had to say about events.
My conclusion is the military industrial complex (not the people who fight and strategize) are to powerful and treasonous.. Do a basic research of events on the flight shot down over PA. And you will see someone is lying through their teeth. Why? You dont have to be a genius to figure it out.
Pete

The muslims have a valid complaint.

coachmo
09-13-2013, 08:16 AM
Everyone has a valid complaint!

swampcollielover
09-13-2013, 11:03 AM
Everyone has a valid complaint!

Ya, like belly buttons and "@@%%&" everybody has one.....the validity....is subjective.

Gerry Clinchy
09-13-2013, 11:05 PM
http://thewildernessofmirrors.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/motorcyclerally-550x309.jpg?w=562

From a blog where this photo appeared ...

A Column stretching 55 miles long rode out of Los Angeles California, just let that sink in for a while… That is a column of Bikers that stretches beyond horizon to horizon. That is a column, that even traveling at 60 miles per hour, would have taken more than an hour to pass any given point. That was JUST the bikers from Los Angeles California.

coachmo
09-13-2013, 11:09 PM
I was sure everyone would appreciate my subtle sarcasm!

Pete
09-17-2013, 09:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0


Freudian slip may be. The official report does not say shot down,,,and wreckage doesn't spread over 6 miles when a plane impacts the ground says experts.

And the cia fbi building came straight down and was barely touched from falling debree along with 2 sky scrapers .If it were that easy to bring a sky scraper straight down by flying a plain into it helter skelter then why do they need engineers to bring down smaller buildings. And Silverstein is the luckiest man ever.

I smell fish.
The muslim's have a valid complaint
Mcnamara tried the same thing with Kennedy in the Cuban missile crises ,,,who knows ,may be there were 10 guys on the grassy knoll ,,,I guess we;ll have to wait till 2050 or 2075 whrnever it is they open the files. All I can say is most of us won't care by then and the ones the do will say "kennedy who"

Just sayin
Pete

Pete
09-18-2013, 09:33 AM
Here are scientists,engineers and Architects who have view the evidence. Its to bad the administration hauled much of it to china as fast as they could. But there remained enough left behind to make a solid conclusion. even the flaming Liberal ed Asner can see through what has been shoved down our throat. He hosts a portion of this 15 minute video. It is clear to me that discussing what the media and upper government officials say about any subject anymore is not to be trusted . Smoke and mirrors are the new U.S. policies. We have now become a part of the evil empire (a global empire) only we are really nice about it and try real hard to look like the good guys.. We are a global society like it or not. I won't bother you with this conspiracy crap on 911 any more because the real entities who do the conspiring are certain factions of the U'S government and global elites. If this opens only one persons eyes ,,its worth it My conclusion is that our government has been covering this up and has lied to us. And by the way I love my country and the people who make it up as much as any one here.
Yes the muslims have a very valid point. They may have been involved but I guarantee they had a lot of help.
Pete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axkuJyuvG6I

Socks
09-18-2013, 02:21 PM
Here are scientists,engineers and Architects who have view the evidence. Its to bad the administration hauled much of it to china as fast as they could. But there remained enough left behind to make a solid conclusion. even the flaming Liberal ed Asner can see through what has been shoved down our throat. He hosts a portion of this 15 minute video. It is clear to me that discussing what the media and upper government officials say about any subject anymore is not to be trusted . Smoke and mirrors are the new U.S. policies. We have now become a part of the evil empire (a global empire) only we are really nice about it and try real hard to look like the good guys.. We are a global society like it or not. I won't bother you with this conspiracy crap on 911 any more because the real entities who do the conspiring are certain factions of the U'S government and global elites. If this opens only one persons eyes ,,its worth it My conclusion is that our government has been covering this up and has lied to us. And by the way I love my country and the people who make it up as much as any one here.
Yes the muslims have a very valid point. They may have been involved but I guarantee they had a lot of help.
Pete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axkuJyuvG6I

First, I wouldn't listen to any Architect in regards to structures. Second any structural engineer that believes this crap should have their license stripped. As a structural engineer that sat through a presentation on the Pentagon by the forensic structural engineer I won't waste my time even clicking on that link. Good day.

Pete
09-18-2013, 08:22 PM
I know what you mean. I turned my head and closed my eyes and ears for almost a decade. My son was always trying to get me to look at stuff like that. I said the same thing to him. How can a government or someone in its factions do that to their own people. Then one day he hooked his pute up to the big screen,,as I walked by I stopped ,looked and listened. Men of highest credibility speaking on the subject. making sence and appearing normal,,not like some conspiracy freak. Thats when I started taking an interest in what may have happened.

Look at the evidence for yourself,,stop for a second to hear what your cronies have to say about it. ,,watch the interview of the firemen moments after they came out of building 7. research building 7 see who had it built,,,see what was in building 7.,,,,watch the interview with the maintence man who was 4 stories below ground. every one stories coagulate with the experts on demolition and structural engineering.
The only thing you have to loose is your trust in your government. This is the only reason I may watch national news.. Its about time again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNj0T4uK3lE



pete