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Gerry Clinchy
09-18-2013, 01:26 PM
Intersting ... Boehner changed his tune and intends to allow the vote on the CR that contains the defunding of Obamacare.


"The law's a trainwreck," Boehner said of the Affordable Care Act. "It's time to protect American families from this unworkable law."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/18/gop-goes-all-in-on-de-fund-obamacare-as-shutdown-looms/#ixzz2fGonQPiq

Buzz
09-18-2013, 05:16 PM
Protect the American People by threatening another financial system meltdown.

Responsible governing at its best!

Gerry Clinchy
09-18-2013, 09:31 PM
A group of House conservatives introduced legislation Wednesday that members say will replace ObamaCare and its “unworkable” taxes and mandates with a plan that expands tax breaks for Americans who buy their own insurance.





Under the proposal (http://v8-pvw.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/09/18/american-health-care-reform-bill/) endorsed by the 175-member Republican Study Committee, Americans who purchase coverage through state-run exchanges can claim a $7,500 deduction against their income and payroll taxes, regardless of the cost of the insurance. Families could deduct $20,000.
The plan -- which appears to be congressional Republicans' first comprehensive alternative to President Obama's health care overhaul -- also increases government funding for high-risk pools. The plan serves as a rebuttal to Obama's claims that Republicans just want to eliminate the health law and are no longer interested in replacing it.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/18/house-conservatives-submit-bill-to-repeal-replace-obamacare/#ixzz2fImCEcI9

The House proposal also includes:

Rep. Phil Roe, R-Tenn., who led a small group that drafted the study committee measure, said the tax deduction would ensure that individuals and families enjoy "the same buying power" as employers who are permitted to deduct the cost of coverage they provide to their workers.


He also said the commitment of $25 billion over 10 years to defray the cost of coverage for high-risk patients would ease a problem caused when funding provided under Obama's plan ran out. Premiums in the high-risk pools would be capped at twice the average cost of insurance sold in the state.


Individuals with pre-existing conditions who already have coverage would generally be permitted to shift existing insurance without fear of losing it.
The legislation also includes expanded access to health savings accounts, which are tax-preferred accounts used to pay medical expenses by consumers enrolled in high-deductible coverage plans.
The RSC legislation includes a number of proposals that Republicans long have backed to expand access and hold down the cost of health care, including features that permit companies to sell policies across state lines and that let small businesses join together to seek better rates from insurers.


In addition, awards for pain and suffering, emotional distress and similar noneconomic damages in medical malpractice cases would be capped at $250,000, unless a state had a higher cap.


No overall cost estimates for the bill were available.

Henlee
09-19-2013, 04:16 AM
I am positive that if passed Obama will sign into law the budget that defunds Obamacare. This in no way seems like a complete waste of time, that congressional republicans are going to have to concede at some point anyway. I really hope they press the issue to a government shutdown.

Gerry Clinchy
09-19-2013, 09:35 AM
I am positive that if passed Obama will sign into law the budget that defunds Obamacare. This in no way seems like a complete waste of time, that congressional republicans are going to have to concede at some point anyway. I really hope they press the issue to a government shutdown.
Interesting line of thought ... not one which is the most prevalent at this time.

I doubt that Reid will let it get through the Senate, but if it did, and Obama were to sign it, wouldn't he be backing down from another "red line" he drew when he said he would veto such a bill?

Or do you think there is some fear on the part of the Dems that the law really is a trainwreck? and this would be a way to avoid Dems being blamed for the problematic fall-out of the law actually going into effect?

Wonder why nobody has suggested a bill that simply delays the law going into effect, and funding also delayed for one year ... since Obama has delayed the employer mandate for one year? Wouldn't a delay be more consistent with what Obama has already done by executive order? Thus, face-saving for him and Dems. If Rs could gain control of the Senate in 2014, then there could be a real chance of replacement with smaller, less intrusive reforms like those proposed by Rs just yesterday. Delay would also be fairer to those who would be subject to the individual mandate, since employers have been given a delay.

swampcollielover
09-19-2013, 02:11 PM
I don't trust this or anything that Boehner has put forward. I know we all have been drilling them for months to defund Obama Care, but as soon as they start patching other items to it, I have a problem with that.....RINOs will kill the party if they do not get a backbone! They are more afraid of what the Dem's will say if the delay or defund Obama Care, than they are of the American People.

Gerry Clinchy
09-19-2013, 06:23 PM
If you support defunding, you can sign the petition at http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/ It is getting close to 1.5 million signatures.

Heard Tom DeLay on radio today (think it was Sean Hannity's show) talking about the last govt shutown ... when Dole opened things up on day 21, Clinton later said in his memoir, if it had lasted one more day, he would have caved in. Yet the world did not come to an end. And certain parts of govt continue ... like military and social security. DeLay also mentioned that it didn't hurt in the elections, that the Rs lost a couple of seats in the House, but picked up a couple in the Senate. (I don't remember the exact numbers he stated, but it was basically a "wash" when it came to the elections."

Later Cruz was on and someone from the House ... Cruz mentioned that when the House voted to delay the individual mandate, they had 24 Dems join the Rs in favor. Of course, Harry wouldn't let it come up in the Senate. The House member made a remark, apparently quoting someone else from the past, "If the Republicans don't stand up for a principle, even if they ultimately lose, what are they even there for?" Essentially, what good is it having two parties if the loyal opposition does nothing but "go along" with things that are not what the people want? Who will speak for the people?

Cruz and this other fellow seemed to get it with regard to low-info voters -- take a page out of the liberal playbook; cast aside the Marquis of Queensbury rules, use the same brass knuckles as the opposition, and speak up. There are Dems vulnerable in the 2014 elections ... by then O-care will have a year to show its true colors, and the way they vote on O-care could come back to haunt them. Cruz was in favor of making it very clear that the message is NOT a govt shutdown, but ONLY to defund O-care. Keep it simple. Put the onus of the shutdown outcome in the other court.

These young mavericks are pretty sharp guys. I really haven't seen much in the way of bright, up-and-comers among the Dems, but I'm open to correction.

Thought Boehner's comment on Obama negotiating with Putin, but refusing to negotiate with the Republicans was interesting. He must have been listening to Limbaugh who made that comment a couple of days ago. Something to the effect that Obama is willing to negotiate with Putin, with Syria, even with Iran ... but refuses to negotiate with Congress. There is some irony there.

Also occurs to me, when Henlee says that Obama will sign such a bill (that funds the rest of govt but defunds O-care), could it be that he and the rest of the Dems realize what a trainwreck they have created, and this could be a way out to help them in the 2014 elections?

Gerry Clinchy
09-20-2013, 12:33 AM
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/09/why_a_defund-obamacare_strategy_would_succeed.html
Interesting twist on how to "play" defunding O-care. Could this work?

Essentially, as Dems threaten to shut down various services, the House passes a bill to fund that service. If the POTUS or Senate vote against that funding, they become the ones voting to shut down govt ... or gradually accept CR funding piece by piece, until only O-care is left.

I'm not sure of some of the arcane (weird) rules of the Senate, but this is an interesting approach.

Henlee
09-20-2013, 12:42 AM
Interesting line of thought ... not one which is the most prevalent at this time.

Republicans are gambling that the population will blame Obama for the shutdown. This is a law that passed through their body about 4 years ago. This will also make almost their 50th failed attempt at defunding Obamacare since they passed it!

I doubt that Reid will let it get through the Senate, but if it did, and Obama were to sign it, wouldn't he be backing down from another "red line" he drew when he said he would veto such a bill?
I don't think he would have backed down from Syria if another solution hadn't arrived. I don't spend a lot of time worry about Obama backing down from red lines. Congress on the other hand it really depends on what they think they can get from the situation. It will not pass the Senate either, then what will the house do?

Or do you think there is some fear on the part of the Dems that the law really is a trainwreck? and this would be a way to avoid Dems being blamed for the problematic fall-out of the law actually going into effect?

I think it would be politically expedient for Dems to turn on this bill if they didn't believe in it. Obama will be lame duck after the mid-terms. I suspect that they believe that it has been and will continue to be successful once fully implemented. I think they plan on running on the success of it. I think the republicans know that also and don't want to have it used against them in the next two elections. With all they invested in fighting against it, if it is not the Armageddon they have claimed, they will look like asses.

Wonder why nobody has suggested a bill that simply delays the law going into effect, and funding also delayed for one year ... since Obama has delayed the employer mandate for one year? Wouldn't a delay be more consistent with what Obama has already done by executive order? Thus, face-saving for him and Dems. If Rs could gain control of the Senate in 2014, then there could be a real chance of replacement with smaller, less intrusive reforms like those proposed by Rs just yesterday. Delay would also be fairer to those who would be subject to the individual mandate, since employers have been given a delay.

The delay they have provided has been thrown in their face so hard that it would not likely have happened if the outcome had been known. Another year of full force fighting, who would sign up for such a thing? It would save him nothing and cost him a whole years worth of political capital. Besides they are planning on it working and being useful to win house seats in the midterms. If the republicans were interested in reforms where were they when they passed the damn thing. No the best course for Obama is getting it started as soon as possible.

Buzz
09-20-2013, 07:51 AM
Or do you think there is some fear on the part of the Dems that the law really is a trainwreck? and this would be a way to avoid Dems being blamed for the problematic fall-out of the law actually going into effect?

I suspect that they believe that it has been and will continue to be successful once fully implemented. I think they plan on running on the success of it. I think the republicans know that also and don't want to have it used against them in the next two elections. With all they invested in fighting against it, if it is not the Armageddon they have claimed, they will look like asses.



I think you've pretty much nailed it.

I know a couple of people who have been waiting till medicare to get some real nagging physical problems fixed that are really negatively impacting their quality of life. They have been swallowing the Republican line hook line and sinker. They are suddenly beginning to realize that soon they could have affordable coverage, it's an interesting transformation to witness...

M&K's Retrievers
09-20-2013, 08:59 AM
I think you've pretty much nailed it.

I know a couple of people who have been waiting till medicare to get some real nagging physical problems fixed that are really negatively impacting their quality of life. They have been swallowing the Republican line hook line and sinker. They are suddenly beginning to realize that soon they could have affordable coverage, it's an interesting transformation to witness...

Buzz, you be sure and let us know how that works out for you. So far, my clients ( the ones that still have coverage) are getting huge rate increases in advance of OC and can expect more in the future. Employers are welcoming the opportunity to get out of the health insurance business. Buzz, please be sure to report back to us when you get your hosing by your employer. It will be sooner than later. I hope you don't but it doesn't look good.

Gerry Clinchy
09-20-2013, 09:08 AM
If the republicans were interested in reforms where were they when they passed the damn thing.
The Rs did NOT pass the law.

The House never voted on the O-care bill. Dingy Harry took another bill that the House had passed, and used an obscure Senate sleight of hand to remove the innards of that bill entirely, and replace it with O-care ... leaving only the bill's #. Then the Senate, with all D votes, passed that new bill. Essentially, the law was passed with only D votes ,,, and you will remember the "Corn Husker Kickback" and the "Louisiana Purchase" that Harry used to bribe two of those Senators.

Funding bills must start in the House, and there was no way the House would have passed O-care, so the Senate trumped that and Harry had his way.

This makes it obvious that the rule that permitted 60 people to trump everyone else should be changed!

So, it was those 60 Dems + Scott Brown that made O-care the law of the land.

Truthfully, I do believe this is a bad law. We are beginning to see that the single-payer system in the UK is falling apart. We have seen the fraud and waste in Medicare, and how the costs ballooned over time. O-care helps a few at the expense of many. Reid has admitted that O-care is just a first step toward single-payer. Obama admitted that single-payer was what he really wanted.

Buzz, could those people who want to get their chronic ailments fixed now, fear that with the changes to Medicare, they will be denied those things when they get past a certain age? That is a real possibility. It is what happens in the UK system.

Historically, any entitlement programs have eternal life. Look at farm subsidies, or many other obscure and obsolete programs.

Henlee
09-20-2013, 10:18 AM
I try not to get feisty, but it really seems to me that the House Rs lost one and now are in full tantrum mode. Their focus on Obamacare has been nonstop to the point that it has eclipsed other important work that body needs to be doing. I would say hopefully after implementation they can get back to work, but that would be an election tear and god knows congress can't do anything in an election year. Maybe this is why their approval rating is at 19%. Incidentally the presidents is at 45% despite his constant barrage of attacks. More than 2 to 1 is the president being supported over congress.

swampcollielover
09-21-2013, 09:58 AM
Protect the American People by threatening another financial system meltdown.

Responsible governing at its best!

Buzz, You do not really believe that 'shutting down the Government' would cause a financial crisis? By law, not all functions will be shutdown, just non-essential. as defined by the Government. Last time we did this, is was not noticed on Wall Street! Regardless, this was never expected to clear the Senate, it is more for flushing out Senators who support Obama Care (now that we all know what is in the bill), in preparation for the next election. All this talk about it maybe going through the house is just a 'pipe dream'. We all are going to get to feel the 'sting' of this Socialization of America in the years to come!