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Henry V
08-27-2005, 10:58 AM
The Q finished Friday. 34 dogs ran.
1st - #10 "Hailey" H- Mark Smith
2nd - #12 H-Mark Smith
3rd - #8 H- S. Yozamp
4th - #24 H-J. Horsley
RJ - #21 H- R.Stawski
J's - #'s: 7,25,29,35

See EE for complete information on entries and for final results on all stakes.

The first series of the open continued this morning with about 9 dogs left to run (a big land quad).

As an FYI, this trial and Blackhawk are in conflict regarding their distance apart. We hate to think what our numbers might be if we were not in conflict for both of our trials.

Franco
08-27-2005, 12:06 PM
The Q finished Friday. 34 dogs ran.
1st - #10 "Hailey" H- Mark Smith
2nd - #12 H-Mark Smith

See EE for complete information on entries and for final results on all stakes.

The first series of the open continued this morning with about 9 dogs left to run (a big land quad).



Good dogs! That's the way to get those young dogs QAA, two at a time! Congrats to Haile and Rip.

Also, congrats to Jeff Horsley and Drake for the Q 4th place.

Noon Saturday and they are just getting the land blind started, I didn't hear how many dog were called back in the Open from the land quad.

Update 6:45pm Saturday; They finished the Open land blind with 28 called back for the water blind Sunday morning.

Angie B
08-28-2005, 07:12 PM
Open

Jim Beck
Chris Ledford
Chris Ledford
Dave Rorem

Super duper technical! Open done at 6:00 Sunday night......... :? :shock:

Pat, you and I need to have a talk............. :D Techno Man!!!!

Angie

Henry V
08-28-2005, 07:48 PM
Derby:
1st- #9 Dora - Yozamp
2nd- #7 Kolt - Rorem
3rd- #2 Wally - Sarek
4th- #14 Oscar
RJ- #17 Ruby - Ledford
J's- #3, #18

Amateur (done at 2:30):
1st- #43 Drake - McIlwain
2nd- #19 Cille - Springer
3rd- #38 Betsy - Belford
4th- #37 Covey - Torvick
RJ- #32 Percy - Bray
J's- #20, #51

The open finished after I left so I am not sure of the numbers. Check EE in the next couple days. Thanks to all participants and judges.

Breck
08-29-2005, 06:30 AM
Congrats to Frank & Rita and Steve on the Derby Win with Dora. I think that brings the tally 24 derby points or so. Way to go!
FYI This dog QAA back in June at 20 Months old.

Wade
08-29-2005, 07:34 AM
Breck: That gives Dora 41 points!!!! I believe that moves her to the top 3 on the list.

GOOD JOB DORA & STEVE!!!!!!!!

reggie
08-29-2005, 08:39 AM
heard Jim Beck's open win was with FC JAG. qual'd him for the national.

goofygunner
08-29-2005, 08:58 AM
Sure, we can talk Angie.

Super Tech. I guess a matter of Opinion. Tough, yes. Tight yes. Do able, Yes. The last series was the only tight set of marks. The first series was wide open, plenty of room to run, but there was something in each mark and we go answers on every mark.

Done by 6:00...yes, But we as Judges where always ready to go by 7:30 in the morning. Because of the wind direction we were forced to run from the west to the east and we had to wait for the sun to get up higher in order for the dogs to have a chance to see the birds better. Our help was slow to get started and ussually took an hour to hour and a half to get started. Even though we already knew what we were doing. Most of our help was young kids with no trial working experience, had to be tought how to throw birds and so on. Really slowed us down. Our water marks should have been set up in 1/2 hour, took and hour and a half. So becuase of mechanics and getting the help going we lost a good 4 to five hours this weekend. Oh well that is the way it goes....I don't sweat it. Guess I don't know what everybodies hurry is....don't they want to be at a field trial? I had one trialer complain on Friday that the Vikings were planning and they wanted to be watching that......My comment, why are you here? To run a trial or to watch the game...Priorities I guess.

We were also generous in our call backs which meet looking at more dogs. I guess we could have just penciled dogs out and only cared about getting the number of dogs down rather than being less harsh on the judging. But I don't mind judging later to look at a few more dogs either, I never worry about numbers of dogs back for the next series, maybe that is a bad thing.

So there were allot of factors involved in the trial running late. I felt we set up good tests and were fair in our call backs.

So give me a call, we can talk

Pat

TS
08-29-2005, 10:10 AM
Pat- Thanks to you and Roger for judging at the trial, I am sure you would have rather been running your own dogs, working on your new place, etc. There are only a few really dedicated members at Fargo running the entire trial, I think everyone did their best given the circumstances.

I was proud to make it through the marks in my second open, and upset that I screwed up so bad on that second land blind. I was not nervous at all until I lined the first short blind, then suddenly I though, "Oh my gosh, maybe I can make it to the water blind," at which point I watched my dog get horribly off line right up front, my brain was "fuzzy."

So thanks again to the judges and the club for their hard work, I see no need to defend yourself.

Tim Springer

goofygunner
08-29-2005, 10:18 AM
Bye the way Tim congrats on your Am 2nd!!! Awsome!!

I know that Fargo club has very few trial members and relies on help to run the trial. They do a good job of putting the trial on with the little help they have. I wish the club had more active trial members, it would help allot. They do have some boys that have help for a few years in a row now. One Mario throws one heck of a bird. Wish they could keep those boys coming back. Right now they only have a few members running there heads off trying to make things happen...it isn't easy, and always training in new throwers puts stress on everyone when trying to get things going. I have judge up there 3 or 4 times now and love judging on those grounds, they are awsome grounds. I too have won the Am up there twice and a 109 dog open. Actually Dave won the open with my dog while I was Judging the Am with Dave H. a few years back.

goofygunner
08-29-2005, 11:38 AM
There is only one trick that we through at the dogs all weekend and they had to deal with it all weekend :twisted:

My little Geo Metro filled with 13 bags of Purina ProPlan Dog Food sitting behind the line a little ways that the dogs had to walk by all the time as they worked towards the line to run. :lol:

Angie B
08-29-2005, 12:08 PM
Pat I'm just gigg'n ya..........

You don't have to explain anything to me. Your the judge end of story and I wasn't there.

Now your pro maybe another story........... :lol: :lol:

Angie

goofygunner
08-29-2005, 12:22 PM
I kinda figured that you were just jabbin me out of fun Angie. I just explaining to all out there how things went from our stand point.

I know Dave very very well, and like anybody he don't like to loose!! And either do I.

Dave had 3 dogs sitting very well going into the last series and when you have trouble it is frusterating. Dave had his take on what was happening and why the dogs did the crazy things the did. And other people had there take on it too. Nobody really knows what goes on in the dogs head at times. But 2 of those dogs for some reason screwed up the go bird bad and that put them in a bad spot for the long retired on that side. And like I said everyone has there reasons to why they did it.

I don't recall if your dog was back in the last series since I don't pay attention to which dog is which most of the time while Judging. But I pick up on it when Dave sends them by their name. I think Jimmy was back for the last series and if I am correct he had a good test going accept for the last bird......it was a tough one to get a line too only 2 dogs got a line to it really really good and the rest ended up there in a round about way if I recall. The first place dog and Norm, the jam dog got that bird perfect. Unfortunately Norm ended up missing the go bird......then going deep, hunting in no mans land and almost getting the long retired (could possibly been called a switch, gray area) and then coming back in to get the go bird. That screwed up is line to that retired bird bad. So he had 2 really bad birds in the last series. Otherwise I think he would have been in contention with the first place dog.

elcinc
08-29-2005, 01:02 PM
I think, I will jump in on this one also, since I was the other Open judge. I think Pat's response was very accurate. We had demanding, but fair tests. Callbacks were very fair. Our 1st series maybe did not give us as much and we would have liked, so we called back 48 out of 80 dogs. With a good tough set of land blinds we were able to call back 28 to the water blind. With a major percentage of the dogs bleeding from the 1st two series we were able to call back 13 back to the water marks after a tough but fair water blind. Pat and I both like to give the dogs that are in the last series a chance to make up ground if they need to or stay on top with a good last series. I personally do not like a last series where I am not able to make up ground if I am bleeding coming into it. I like to look at the last series and say I have a good chance of getting one of those nice colored ribbons if my dog goes out and does a nice job on the test. One dog did our last series almost perfect, two did it with hunts, and two did it with a gorilla hunt or two. I also do not mind staying to judge until 6:00 pm on Sunday nite if that is what it takes to pput on a good trial.

rw-elcinc

elcinc
08-29-2005, 02:22 PM
I also might add that I don think the 4th series water marks were that technical. It did take a dog that was a great marker and some guts to go and get the birds with straight lines. The 4th series was also a dog in good physical condition since there were plenty of ins and outs involved. We have to remember that not every day at the race track may not be as successful as the last one. We just have to buckle up and go back at it it next weekend.

Angie B
08-29-2005, 02:36 PM
You guys crack me up!!!! Like I said you don't have to explain a thing! I was just having fun with you two.

Ya, Pat,,,,,,,, Jimi went out on the last bird..... *sigh*! We'll be point chasing til the end again.....

All I was look'n for was a weeee little break from fellow clients that hail from the same camp.

Tell you what! When I go amateur and start judging FT I'll be darn sure to take darn good care of you fellas if you ever run under me.

Now I am Teasing you again... Just wanna make that clear.... Here I'll add smiley faces.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Angie

Angie B
08-29-2005, 04:40 PM
Fellas,

You do realize "someone" put me up to posting about your tests??? :wink:

Angie

HarryWilliams
08-29-2005, 07:00 PM
I don't know any of the participates/judges in this trial. Nor do I know any of the folks posting on this thread BUT I have really enjoyed hearing the judges perspective of their planning, coordinating and judging decisions. Thank you for explaining your thoughts, rationale and decision processing. That's stuff that's educational and interesting to me. My opinion, this thread has been positive. There did not appear to me to be any accusations nor defensiveness. Frank discussion is good!!! Thanks, HPW

Howard N
08-29-2005, 07:22 PM
I don't know any of the participates/judges in this trial. Nor do I know any of the folks posting on this thread BUT I have really enjoyed hearing the judges perspective of their planning, coordinating and judging decisions. Thank you for explaining your thoughts, rationale and decision processing. That's stuff that's educational and interesting to me. My opinion, this thread has been positive. There did not appear to me to be any accusations nor defensiveness. Frank discussion is good!!! Thanks, HPW

Pretty much ditto 100%.

Ted Shih
08-29-2005, 07:40 PM
Pat and I both like to give the dogs that are in the last series a chance to make up ground if they need to or stay on top with a good last series. I personally do not like a last series where I am not able to make up ground if I am bleeding coming into it. I like to look at the last series and say I have a good chance of getting one of those nice colored ribbons if my dog goes out and does a nice job on the test.

rw-elcinc

Gentlemen

Some comments

1) I prefer trials where the AA judges start with their pedal to the metal and keep it that way until the end. That way, when it is all said and done, there are not nine people who think they are winners ... First place stands head and shoulders above the rest.

2) Like you, I like going into a tough fourth series knowing that I have a chance to bring home the blue, no matter what the work in my three previous series was.

3) Anyone who has judged or put on trials know how difficult it can be to keep the trains running on time - it sounds like you did a great job with the hand you were dealt

Finally, Could you provide a little more detail on your water marks?

Ted

Russell Archer
08-29-2005, 09:01 PM
[quot: All I was look'n for was a weeee little break from fellow clients that hail from the same camp.

Tell you what! When I go amateur and start judging FT I'll be darn sure to take darn good care of you fellas if you ever run under me.
e]

This says volumns about what is wrong with our sport.

I am not talking about the Fargo Judges in the Open or Am....they all did an outstanding job...fair tests and fair judging...what more can you ask for.

I am talking about this quote and how often this exact thing happens. [/quote]

B. A.
08-29-2005, 09:10 PM
:
All I was look'n for was a weeee little break from fellow clients that hail from the same camp.

Tell you what! When I go amateur and start judging FT I'll be darn sure to take darn good care of you fellas if you ever run under me.


This says volumns about what is wrong with our sport.

I am not talking about the Fargo Judges in the Open or Am....they all did an outstanding job...fair tests and fair judging...what more can you ask for.

I am talking about this quote and how often this exact thing happens.

Yep, happens too much. Also, the reverse happens when folks try to get even.

Angie B
08-30-2005, 01:15 AM
[quot: All I was look'n for was a weeee little break from fellow clients that hail from the same camp.

Tell you what! When I go amateur and start judging FT I'll be darn sure to take darn good care of you fellas if you ever run under me.
e]

This says volumns about what is wrong with our sport.

I am not talking about the Fargo Judges in the Open or Am....they all did an outstanding job...fair tests and fair judging...what more can you ask for.

I am talking about this quote and how often this exact thing happens.


Nice thing about quoting people is leaving the most important part of the quote out!!! I'd appreciate the next time you quote me you do so not out of context. I know more implied that I expected to be given a break then fly to the moon. That is if you read my whole post.

I was teasing the judges......... :!:

Besides how could my dog be given any kind of break if he handled on his last bird? Sheeesh! :roll: Pretty black and white what to expect there.

Angie

elcinc
08-30-2005, 07:42 AM
Hi Ted,

It may be easier for me to draw out the 4th series and fax it to you, if you would like. Easier than explaining it without a drawing.

rw-elcinc

goofygunner
08-30-2005, 12:56 PM
I have a pdf file of the 1,3,4 series if anyone is interrested in seeing them. Drawings might not be most accurate, but it gives you a pretty good picture of what the tests were.

Send me a message if you want to see it.

goofygunner
08-30-2005, 01:23 PM
I can also send a word document if that works better.

Yellow lab
08-30-2005, 03:38 PM
First I want to thank everyone that was part of the Field Trial. It was great to see a lot of you that I have not seen in a long time, due to my inability to get back in the swing after changing jobs, getting married, building a new house and learning to be a Dad to 4 children.

I would like to take the time to give my perspective on how the open was run. I am not a judge and don?t ever want to be, it is a thankless job! My hat is off to all judges! Some keep on judging when they do not even have dogs anymore, now that is impressive.

Here is what happened at the open while I was there, which I was the entire 3 days as stake chairman.

The first series;
It was setup as a quad. We ran the test dog around 9 am, mainly due to the sun, but there was a slow down on setups as well due to the grounds being quit wet, limiting us to use a 4-wheeler for getting equipment out to the stations, (4 stations) and only one 4-wheeler available. Long gun was thrown first, with an experienced thrower out there, as well as a backup, but he was a new thrower, and 17 yrs. old, but, a good arm. The flyer was the 2nd station and thrown by who all would consider the most experienced in ducks, the fella that we buy the ducks from, which all you out there know him very well, what a great guy! The 3rd station was thrown by a Pro?s hired man, he certainly knows how to throw! The 4th station was thrown by another kid that was experienced and we have had nothing but great comments about his throws over the years, he had a backup, new kid, but age of 17. Did we have to put 2 throwers at each station, no we did not, but we accommodated the requests. Granted this went until noon the next day, but remember we did have 85 dogs to start with and 4 scratches. so a quad. is going to take some time to do when it is a long one, with water included in the test.

Second series;
This test did not take anytime at all to setup.
This was a land blind, with 3 poison bird stations. The short one with a popper and a planted bird which was picked up. The other two; one consisted of 10 ducks lying out in the open to the east of the long blind, the other was 6 ducks in a crate to the west of the blind, the wind was out of the west. It took about 10 mins a dog and there were 46 dogs. We finished by 5:00 PM on Sat. There was a decision to not start the water blind until the next day.

Third series;
This test took no time to setup either. This test took about 10 mins. a dog and it was a water blind. There were about 26 dogs for this test. We were done by around 11 AM.

Fourth series;
This test took some time to setup. First I had to go out in the water and cut cattails. This took some time since I had to change into chest waders from hip waders after realizing I could not get to all the cattails the judges wanted cut down. This took me about 45 mins. total. I was the only adult out there working the setups, other then the judges. So that took me out of commission as far as setting up stations for the first 45 mins. On this test, we only had 13 dogs back. It was a long water mark on 2 stations and a shorter mom and pop stations. They all had experienced throwers and the long guns from my vantage pt., which was in a bad spot, and I could still see the throws which was very impressive. There was one station of these 4 that had a new thrower, but like I said, I could see the throws from my view. I can not say how impressive those throws were, I know if it was me running a dog I would have been pleased with them. Here is the kicker on the 4th series starting. I had to take two kids to the club house to catch a ride home. I was also going to watch traffic once I got back. Unknown to me they waited until I got back. I had no idea that was the case, had I known, I would have probably suggested that someone come out there to watch traffic until I got back. That basically was my fault for not following up on prior to taking the kids back to the club.

On another point,
The first day and a half, the line was quit a ways from the parking. As well there were many dogs in the open there were running in the qual. I believe the club members involved did a great job coordinating all of this. I also want to thank all the handlers for their cooperation! It is a great bunch of guys/gals! As well, we split up the chair and the marshal to do a double marshal job if you will. One person was up on the road while the other was down by the line. :D

elcinc
08-31-2005, 07:03 AM
Yellow Lab Man:

Thanks for all of your help putting on the trial. I think as we look back down the road, we will realize that the Open was run the best possible way, under all circumstances. Dedicated help, fair tests, and a clear cut winner. Enough said. Thanks again!

Chad Engels
08-31-2005, 07:30 AM
Man, after reading all these posts a person truly comes to appreciate all the time and effort that goes into a field trial. Thank God for people like the judges and stake chair, or we would not have a sport.

Chad - who respects handlers who are active club members.

Chad Engels
08-31-2005, 07:31 AM
Man, after reading all these posts a person truly comes to appreciate all the time and effort that goes into a field trial. Thank God for people like the judges and stake chair, or we would not have a sport.

Chad - who respects handlers who are active club members and judges.