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Chad Clagg
07-28-2006, 03:18 PM
How many people use these? How long do they last? Dogs like them? Do you like them?

Lil Dikens Kennels
07-28-2006, 04:15 PM
I was not happy with them. Alway have a hard time keeping wings on.Find plastic strips also get in the way

lablover
07-28-2006, 04:20 PM
You must tie bird wings onto Super Birds very tightly with cable ties. There are indentations on these for that purpose. Very tightly!!

I feel that my dogs like them. I use them on the shorter marks, as at a distance dogs can have trouble seeing them, depending on the lighting.

Shawn Riggs
07-28-2006, 06:53 PM
Have not used them once in the six months of owning my Bumper Boys.
I should probably sell them.

I have the Dokken Teal Laucher Dummies and tried using them a few times, but the Bumper Boys shoot them too far and too fast with even the lightest load I could find locally.

Chad Clagg
07-28-2006, 06:54 PM
Good Lord, 85 views and only 2 replys. I thought this forum was full of some of the country's best trainers. I'm sure out of 85 people more than 2 have had an experience with them.

Kristie Wilder
07-28-2006, 07:15 PM
Good Lord, 85 views and only 2 replys. I thought this forum was full of some of the country's best trainers. I'm sure out of 85 people more than 2 have had an experience with them.

...you may have just answered your own question...

I, for one (and I think many on this board), use real birds in training every day. I have a couple of dokkens around that I use maybe 1-2x a year for particular purposes. But other than that, just real birds....

I was curious what they were, which is why I clicked on here (and may be why others did too - sounded interesting).

-K

Driftdude
07-28-2006, 08:44 PM
They are too small for the most part...I have some but usually only use them for (floating) water marks...and have never bothered to tie a bird to them.

As for the countries best dog trainers??????.....they are in the field training...not on the a keyboard talking about it. A message board is the last place you'll find a really good dog trainer.

Their bumpers are a much better tool.

JT

Chris Atkinson
07-28-2006, 08:52 PM
I gotta agree with JT on the "best trainers" comment. During the three hour period in question, during prime daylight conditions, there were three responses.

My hunch is that the country's best trainers were out today using good old fashioned regular bumpers or REAL birds.

Chris

Kristie Wilder
07-28-2006, 09:07 PM
I gotta agree with JT on the "best trainers" comment. During the three hour period in question, during prime daylight conditions, there were three responses.

My hunch is that the country's best trainers were out today using good old fashioned regular bumpers or REAL birds.

Chris

You know what? Statements like this are such a joke. I posted in the evening, but even so... I post often during the day. And I really don't care because I don't have anything to prove to anyone. Otherwise, I'd always wait to post at night to give the illusion that I'm busy all day every day retriever training...

Just because people don't keep standard hours doesn't mean jack. I pick and choose the dates and times I take off, when I train, when I do other things. I gues I'm a sucky trainer because of it? I only have 9 dogs going to the master national and could have had more, but clients didn't want to make the trip to CA and didn't feel like having their dogs go without them. I think that's more than a lot of other pros.

Here's something to consider... First, a good trainer doesn't have to SACRIFICE their life to train dogs 24/7. Second, it's not physically or mentally healthy for dogs or people to train 24/7. Third, look at the volume of divorce and lack of interaction with family and child that many pros "suffer". I think some pros have their priorities way wrong in life... I'd rather "chastise" a pro that's never home for their family and kids than one that posts on the internet during a "working hour".

You don't have to train 24/7 to have nice dogs. Oh, and you CAN have OTHER talents and hobbies. How many of the national caliber pros even CARE to ever get on a computer? Did you think about that? How many can even type or care to type? Many would probably rather not. And many don't want to get on here and deal with all BS. AND, on top of that, some of them think RTF is a waste of space with a bunch of people constantly bickering and blowing hot air. Go figure?

There are lots of talented people in the world. Just because some of us don't dedicate every waking hour to TRAINING (versus care, playtime, etc. and, oh yeah, our own personal lives) doesn't mean we need to be the object of snide remarks.

PS -- I am NOT saying that I'm up there with Mike Lardy and Danny Farmer et. al. -- but I certainly know some of us are not deserving of the implication that those of us that may post during the day are "lesser" trainers.

-Kristie

TimThurby
07-28-2006, 09:25 PM
OUCH!!!

You go girl! :wink:

Shannon

lablover
07-28-2006, 09:31 PM
I don't have anything to train right now. :( Hence my post in Canine classifieds. :lol:

The Teal Superbird is small and hard to see in flight. The Mallard is seen easier, especially in good lighting.

Set your BB's to shoot high and short ie, bird falls close to launcher, 15-20 yards. Use low powered shells. I use green; others use brown.

The BB bumpers ARE much better for the dog to see.

Aussie
07-28-2006, 09:32 PM
I like the RTF, it relaxes me most times, although some replies worry me.

I have some great contacts, but feel too humbled to telephone and ask my constant questions. But I do from time to time.
:wink:

More often than not, I simplify and progress, with the constant thought in my head, do not blame the dogs for my mistakes or lack of effort, in trying to teach what I require.

Kristie Wilder
07-28-2006, 09:35 PM
sorry we very badly hijacked your thread, CC.... :?

Ricky Elston
07-28-2006, 09:37 PM
IMHO, JT and Chris' comment really didn't imply anything to the people that posted. The way I took it, MOST trainers were out training, not on here. Hell, I didn't train today 'cause I didn't feel like it, who cares. People need to lighten up just a tad. Just my opinion, don't shoot me, run me over, than burn my corspe. :wink:

Kristie Wilder
07-28-2006, 09:42 PM
IMHO, JT and Chris' comment really didn't imply anything to the people that posted. The way I took it, MOST trainers were out training, not on here. Hell, I didn't train today 'cause I didn't feel like it, who cares. People need to lighten up just a tad. Just my opinion, don't shoot me, run me over, than burn my corspe. :wink:

Re-read....


As for the countries best dog trainers??????.....they are in the field training...not on the a keyboard talking about it. A message board is the last place you'll find a really good dog trainer.





I gotta agree with JT on the "best trainers" comment. During the three hour period in question, during prime daylight conditions, there were three responses. << I think everyone that posted prior to this is pretty much a target of the comment?? Implying that because people replied at the time they did, they don't know how to train a dog...

The "best trainers" wouldn't be able to comment, anyway, I don't think because they don't use substitute ducks to train. So it's kind of a moot point....

lablover
07-28-2006, 09:43 PM
Kristie............. you are SO RIGHT :!:

Ricky Elston
07-28-2006, 09:46 PM
I did, still feel the same....remember it's my opinion and I'm not trying to argue with anyone. If you feel you are a good trainer, that's all that matters, you said yourself you trained 9 MN qualifiers, me thinks that's a big accomplishment. Chill out, it's FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

HuntinDawg
07-28-2006, 09:48 PM
Second, it's not physically or mentally healthy for dogs or people to train 24/7.

Plus it is the end of July and it is hotter than blue blazes here in the South. Early morning and late evening are about the only suitable times to train right now...Water work you say? Heck, even the water is hot right now...I guess all the good trainers spend their summers up north or they'd be killing their dogs by training all day in this heat.

Very goofy blanket statements IMO. Maybe they were supposed to be a little tongue in cheek.

Kristie Wilder
07-28-2006, 09:54 PM
Second, it's not physically or mentally healthy for dogs or people to train 24/7.

Plus it is the end of July and it is hotter than blue blazes here in the South. Early morning and late evening are about the only suitable times to train right now...Water work you say? Heck, even the water is hot right now...I guess all the good trainers spend their summers up north or they'd be killing their dogs by training all day in this heat.

Very goofy blanket statements IMO. Maybe they were supposed to be a little tongue in cheek.

I wish I could still go north... But with Joie in school, it just ain't gonna happen. We've just gotten really good at what I dub "speed training". Highly efficient, knock 'em out kind of training. thankfully we've had some windy days that have helped. But man it does get hot out there...

-K

AmiableLabs
07-28-2006, 10:22 PM
Good Lord, 85 views and only 2 replys. I thought this forum was full of some of the country's best trainers. I'm sure out of 85 people more than 2 have had an experience with them.
The 85 does not represent the number of people, it represents the number of times the thread is opened. For all we know it could have been only two people opening it 40+ times each.

AmiableLabs
07-28-2006, 10:31 PM
Plus it is the end of July and it is hotter than blue blazes here in the South. Early morning and late evening are about the only suitable times to train right now...
Not just the South. It is like this for us too every summer. We are out there at 6am, and/or 6pm. That leaves a lot of time in between.


Very goofy blanket statements IMO. Maybe they were supposed to be a little tongue in cheek.
I don't think Chris or JT meant anything by it personally. Besides those of us who know Kristie's success know there is no way she is slack or inefficient.

djansma
07-28-2006, 10:39 PM
I have not used the super birds but have seen them; as a friend has them and they seem as hard as a brick and don't seem like I would need them, the bumpers are much better .As for the trainers I am just a little am. training my dogs but here in NE it is 100 degrees and I have to work all day and train in the evening have to work to support my hobby; my dogs. and last remember alot of people look at posts and some post good info and some just post

David Jansma

Chris Atkinson
07-29-2006, 02:01 AM
Kristie,

I should have looked harder at who it was that responded.

I meant ABSOLUTELY NOTHING towards you when I wrote what I wrote. Obviously, I should have looked harder at who it was that responded to the originator's responses that were received before commenting.

My point remains. I find fault with someone expressing discontentment that they don't get more than three responses between 2 PM and 5 PM during daylight, from the "country's best trainers" responding to a specialty dummy question.

And as it turned out, yourself, probably the only pro to HAVE responded to it, had zero experience with the product... My OTHER point! Most professionals were probably out using regular old bumpers or real birds.

No offense intended towards you Kristie....

(Now I'll go back and reread all that you wrote, cuz I pretty much blasted to a reply as soon as I checked in.) :wink:

Kristie, I'm sincerely sorry that my pile-on to Tackett's bothered you and htat you took it personally.

Chris

Driftdude
07-29-2006, 02:12 AM
Kristie,

Please forgive me.....I didn't realize you were professional retriever trainer. Had I known I would have kept my mouth shut.

Again....I'm very sorry and I'm sure your a great trainer....I was just making small talk....and meant nothing personal. A complete oversight on my part.

Thanks,

JT

Chris Atkinson
07-29-2006, 02:15 AM
Kristie,

I sent you a PM.

Chris

Jt, you're up late!

Rosemary Westling
07-29-2006, 06:06 AM
I trained with Kristie at the first ever Ladies Retriever Retreat.

Nobody works harder than Kristie and her crew!

They were working before daylight and well after dark. I had to go to bed before they were finished.

Everything about the Retreat was fabulous but the amount of work these women did was extrordinary!

I'd give Kristie and her crew at 10 out of 10 in the hard work department!

Chad Clagg
07-29-2006, 06:14 AM
Sorry for the smart ellic comments, hope no one was offended, I just wanted some replies so I can decide whether or not to get some or not. Didn't mean to start anything.

swamprat II
07-29-2006, 08:01 AM
I got 24 of them super birds and I don't particular like them. Butg if you do use them as stated by Lab man set the BB to shoot a short high throw. I tie orange marking tape to them and leave about 1 foot of streamer hanging off them.

But then again as stated before I like to use real birds as afton as possible.

Wayne Dibbley
07-29-2006, 10:41 AM
I have found a number of situations where I really liked the super teal...I haven't tried the super mallards...but if any of you are getting rid of yours because you don't like them or don't use them, let me know by PM. I can use a few more.

All the best,

Wayne Dibbley

NateB
07-29-2006, 11:42 AM
BACK TO TOPIC,
(gez people chill)

I have used the Mallard super birds extensively. I like them better than bumpers. Once the bumpers and the streamers get dirty the white is harder to see so the improved visablity in no longer an advantage. If I put a pile of bumpers with Super birds the dog will pick out the Super birds.
I use a small shock cord to attach the wings but it has to be just the right size. Cable ties are faster to use but if put on too tight then tend to pop off the upper groove. The grooves need to be deeper. I had an idea of trying to pass a cord thru the bird and then tie on the wings, that way it would not shift up of down with but I have not tried it yet.

For visability even with real birds I often use white streamers made from shower curtain vinyl. Cut into strip and grommented two strips at an angle. They do not turn brown like the Flagman streamers do and they are extremely visable. I train with mostly dark tree backgrounds, limitation of the area, so it is hard to see either birds or bumper boys stuff at a long distance. The streamer also will slow the flight of the Super birds. My dogs marks them consistently at 200-300 yards as long as I pay attention to the sun, light, background, but that goes for any mark.

I will say that I get REAL tired of people who look down their noses at people like me who train a lot with winged bumpers. I have competed at the top levels of hunt test, with a nice success rate as a matter of fact. Even did OK in a few trials. I do use birds and wingers some, but with extremely limited time and two dogs to train, and NO help it is very hard to train with just birds. Especially with young dogs that you are starting to stretch out, having an extra launch can be invaluable to allow the dog to succeed without having to handle. Of course if that happens too much I need to adjust the level of training.

If I had ground where I could use a 4 wheeler, bird boys, a pen capable of holding ducks (that would not get me evicted from my home), etc,etc,etc. I would use all birds. But I don't, I have 2 teenagers, a busy solo practice and a wife that works full time and her own hobby (horses, she cannot complain about the money I spend!!!), we will continue to hobble along using the Bumper Boys a lot, and we will be just fine.

lablover
07-31-2006, 08:30 AM
The tying of white streamers, AKA "Surveyor tape", to Super birds or any bumper for that matter, only enhances the visibility of the "bumper" to the dog. Dogs cannot mark if they cannot see the object to be marked.
Since we are discussing marking training I feel it's an asset or a tool to improve your dogs marking abilities.
It would be foolish to get on a dogs case for poor marking because the dog did not get a good look the the mark, for any number of reasons, ie, poor background, lighting, etc, etc.
Many FT folks tie white streamers to real birds for very long marking tests in training. Why? To enhance the visability and teach the dog.