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View Full Version : Sooner Retriever Club - Amateur (FYI)



Mad_At_M
10-17-2006, 06:40 PM
We want to make sure everyone understands. We as a club have decided, the FIRST 10 dogs in the Amateur will run in order per the premium and published running order. It does not matter if you are the first dog in the open on Saturday morning, you better be at the Amateur. If you are one of the first 10 dogs and you are not there, you will be put on the clock and dropped.

Please keep in mind, we are not being mean, we just believe in the luck of the draw in the running order.

Thank You! We look forward to seeing everyone at our trial.

Come Hungry...We have Diamond B Consessions whooping up some outstanding lunch. Maybe breakfast if he will get out of bed and show up.

K G
10-17-2006, 07:00 PM
Are you going to delay the start of the Open Saturday morning to, say, 9am, so that the Amateur can start in order and you won't have a bunch of foul attitudes all over the grounds for the rest of the weekend?

Just a thought.....

Been there/done that regards,

kg

kljohnston
10-17-2006, 07:46 PM
What happened to the Open taking precedence as per the AKC rulebook ?

Angie B
10-17-2006, 08:41 PM
Why would you do that????? :shock:

Angie

Ken Guthrie
10-17-2006, 09:41 PM
Why would you do that????? :shock:

Angie

Why not?

Shayne Mehringer
10-17-2006, 09:53 PM
Why would you do that????? :shock:

Angie

The biggest logistical concern i'd have is client running 6th dog in the AM and its the 2nd or 3rd dog that the pro needs to run out of the 12 he has back for the land blind... now the pro can't run any of his other dogs until the client gets back, otherwise the pro would have to run his dogs out of order.

Even if you try to get the Am started before the Open gets going... the Am is setting up marks and the Open is likely just running a land blind... so the Open will probably be rocking before the Am.

I think it's a valiant effort, but i'm not sure i would "bind" myself to the first 10 dog thing just incase you get in a situation where Eckett or Schrader, etc.. can't run any of their dogs cuz they are wanting on a client to return - with a likely tired dog.

SM

Mad_At_M
10-17-2006, 10:16 PM
AM will be running before the open. If there is a good reason someone is not there, a mashal should be notified. See Page 17 & 18 & 19 of your Rules. The Judges, FTC and Head Marshal makes those decisions. The open is important, but not any more important than the Am. Expediting the trail is most important along with fairness. If you have ever had to deal with sandbaggers, you will understand.

kljohnston
10-17-2006, 10:22 PM
and i sure would hate to be that one amateur trainer/handler running my own dog (possibly my only dog) in the open that has to run first because some pro can't run his dog due to the fact that his client has it at the amateur.

kljohnston
10-17-2006, 10:31 PM
pg 38-39 "all field trial-giving clubs should clearly recognize that open, limited or special all-age stakes are of the first importance, and that all other stakes are of relatively lesser importance......."
"the amateur all-age stake merits next consideration,...."

kljohnston
10-17-2006, 10:32 PM
pg 38-39 "all field trial-giving clubs should clearly recognize that open, limited or special all-age stakes are of the first importance, and that all other stakes are of relatively lesser importance......."
"the amateur all-age stake merits next consideration,...."

Ken Guthrie
10-18-2006, 06:27 AM
How bout this one for a genius idea................

Pay your entry...........

Show up with your dog.............

Run when they tell you to................

Hope for a placement............

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Note- These are my opinions only and do not reflect the Sooner Retriever Club. As I have no dog in this fight but think it's stupid to even have a DOW unless you are gonna run in order.

Shayne Mehringer
10-18-2006, 08:02 AM
The open is important, but not any more important than the Am. Expediting the trail is most important along with fairness. If you have ever had to deal with sandbaggers, you will understand.

Amen to that!

I am always more worried about getting my minor stake goin on Friday morning and my AM going on Saturday morning than i am the Open.

SM

pistol
10-22-2006, 04:02 PM
if a pro at the open's next dog was at the am wouldn't he be allowed to run his next dog?
________
Juan Manuel Fangio (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Juan_Manuel_Fangio)

W Knight
10-23-2006, 09:26 PM
open, limited or special all-age stakes are of the first importance, and that all other stakes are of relatively lesser importance......."


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .... W H Y ... ??????????????

White Knight

Patrick Johndrow
10-23-2006, 09:44 PM
open, limited or special all-age stakes are of the first importance, and that all other stakes are of relatively lesser importance......."


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .... W H Y ... ??????????????

White Knight

Actually the rule book use the word ?consideration? not ?importance? but it is what the rule book states but there are other qualifiers listed?so the reason why is because it is in the rules?but then again the rule book seems to be fairly irrelevant at weekend trials so your question is valid. :wink:

Pete Marcellus
10-23-2006, 10:54 PM
if a pro at the open's next dog was at the am wouldn't he be allowed to run his next dog?

This actually happened at the open, the pro asked if he could just run his next dog and we allowed him to do just that.

Pete

Anthony Heath
10-24-2006, 03:33 PM
How about we first considered if the dog should be at the Open or the Am, then decided it should be at the Am. :twisted:

Steve Amrein
10-24-2006, 04:25 PM
open, limited or special all-age stakes are of the first importance, and that all other stakes are of relatively lesser importance......."


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .... W H Y ... ??????????????

White Knight


So the open can finish on Sat or by noon on Sun. :roll:

I dont get it, who is putting on theses trials and for whom.

Patrick Johndrow
10-24-2006, 09:37 PM
open, limited or special all-age stakes are of the first importance, and that all other stakes are of relatively lesser importance......."


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .... W H Y ... ??????????????

White Knight


So the open can finish on Sat or by noon on Sun. :roll:

I dont get it, who is putting on theses trials and for whom.



:?:

Steve Amrein
10-25-2006, 09:26 AM
I guess what I meant to say is we (the amatuers) spend 4 days putting on a 3 day trial plus the time spent before the trial. the pros show up with 10 -25 dogs each and are catered to all weekend on when they run and where each stake waiting on dogs from them. At the end of the day on sat. the am finishes last and was rushed the whole time finishing the trial. So while the judges are doing placements in the dark and the few that were in the last series along with the folks that volantered days to put the trial on the pros that get paid to run dogs are long gone and maybe already home. For the open to get the best land and water the most help 3 days and get priority is wrong. I have or have had all my dogs to date with a pro so I am not anti-pro. I just dont get why the rest of the stakes have to suffer for the open. Pro or non pro run dogs. If you enter a dog in the open and the AM and get called back to the land or water blind in the open and then are late for the am or tell the marshall that your dog just did the open land blind and you need to wait until the dog is rested than it is not fair to the other folks who dont and are running in order.

Patrick Johndrow
10-25-2006, 03:30 PM
I guess what I meant to say is we (the amatuers) spend 4 days putting on a 3 day trial plus the time spent before the trial. the pros show up with 10 -25 dogs each and are catered to all weekend on when they run and where each stake waiting on dogs from them. At the end of the day on sat. the am finishes last and was rushed the whole time finishing the trial. So while the judges are doing placements in the dark and the few that were in the last series along with the folks that volantered days to put the trial on the pros that get paid to run dogs are long gone and maybe already home. For the open to get the best land and water the most help 3 days and get priority is wrong. I have or have had all my dogs to date with a pro so I am not anti-pro. I just dont get why the rest of the stakes have to suffer for the open. Pro or non pro run dogs. If you enter a dog in the open and the AM and get called back to the land or water blind in the open and then are late for the am or tell the marshall that your dog just did the open land blind and you need to wait until the dog is rested than it is not fair to the other folks who dont and are running in order.
Steve that is a great summation of the delima at weekend trials?couple that with all the other garbage that goes on at trials and it is a wonder any of us participate in this sport.

Shayne Mehringer
10-25-2006, 04:01 PM
.... it is a wonder any of us participate in this sport.

I'm in it for the chicks!!!

SM

K G
10-25-2006, 04:13 PM
Like that was ever in doubt.....

kg

Mad_At_M
10-25-2006, 07:31 PM
I agree with everything Steve said. This sport was built around the amatuers, not the pros. We are slowly making it a pro's game and I believe the pros sometimes forget who puts these trial on "The Amatuers" The pros are just slowly taking over. And to make Steve's point, we hold a OH Q for the sole reason as to expidite our trial and to give new people a place to play. We are not going to make the Q wait for a pro who is probably every other dog in the open. Pro's do not like the OH Q, but they are the ones that are causing clubs to take that action.

It is not the clubs problem that the dog is ran in both the open and the am. It is the clubs responsibility to put on a trial as fair as possible. It is the owners responsibility to get the dog to and from each stake. If the dog is tired or the handler was not there for the test dog, then too bad. That is a chance you take by double staking.

Since the sport was built around the amatuers, the amatuers should be priority. The amatuer should run in order and the open can wait. If you have a both Am and Open marks running the the last series. It could be that by letting the amatuer go run the Open and come back to the Am would give them an unfair advantage. This could be due to sun, wind, etc. That is unfair to those that are there to run when they are asked to do so.

Patrick is right...That did happen this weekend and probably happens almost every weekend.

PS.....I have a new addition to my signature.

"It's stupid to even have a DOW unless you are gonna run in order" Ken Guthrie