View Full Version : Phoenix Retriever Trial/ Please Note
01-08-2008, 08:48 PM
The Phoenix trial has been stopped from taking place. The president and four member signed a letter to AKC saying they didn't want the trial. This is really a shame as so much effort has been put into having it. I suspect a lot of people will be chaging theirs plans. We tried!!!!
01-10-2008, 05:58 PM
I am bumping this so it has a chance to be seen.
01-10-2008, 06:45 PM
Can you elaborate Marie? This seems so strange to me.
01-10-2008, 07:31 PM
Kris I am too upset to hazard making any further comments. It is hard to understand why when they were not having to do anything. Others had volunteer their time to put it on. All was in place and ready for AKC approval. Marie
01-11-2008, 02:11 PM
This is only the beginning. When a club has few to no active members the interest wanes. There no longer exist--Sheridan RC,Jackson Hole RC, Cheyenne RC, Casper RC, and Lovell RC. Yes it is hard for the SAME contestants to put on a f,ield trial two times a year for the 85% professionally run dogs. Those pros never have brought workers, never have helped pay for anything and whatever they contribute comes from the absentee owners who are at home with their families. Buckeye-46 year old club has stated that after 4 years of putting on field trials for Pat Burns and now Hugh and Al Arthur that they have folded their club as to field trials. They will continue to do hunt tests. It was only today when I asked my wife how many 70 year old people (which I am) attend trials, bag birds, move mats, holding blinds, run birds, run lunches, plant blinds, run the clip board etc, etc? At present I work 2 Montgomery RC trials--get judges 4 years in advance, provide two bird boys, Kippy Kemp provides his workers also,when asked to bring help as there were only 4 of us to put on 4 stakes 3 pros told me NO. Would I like to disband Montgomery? YES. Since 1965 I have served in every capacity of Sanctioned trials, club trials, Liscensed Member trials, and both Nationals. I am sick and tired of working for 35 Eckett, 25 Rorem, 15 Schrader, 10 Gunzer, 23 Farmer,10 Trott, 5 Totten, 23 Arthur, 16 Pleasant, etc. They will tell you that they put on PRTA and since Purina and Tritronics subsidize that group(and do not subdize any other trials other than Nationals) it is real easy for those PRTA trials to hire help and still run clients dogs in order to make their $75-$100 handling fee per dog and still charge the client for travel and training. Aside this is my last year to judge All Age stakes-it is not fun to have to judge 106 dogs in3 days when 85 those dogs are professionaly run. I have Lincoln Trail, Jacksonville, and Manitowoc and that's it-113 All Age points --I quit. However I will judge Derby and Owner-Handler Qualifyings. I will continue to take 5 days of my life to do Montana RC in 09, Blue Ridge in 09, and Southern Arizona 09. I have nothing against the pros- after all they have to train dogs for people who don't Know how to train a dog, place birds, read wind and terrain, manage time, read the rule book or leave home. My only complaint is that I have been doing this for 47 years and am tired. The average age of the Phoenix and Southern California--including San Diego is probably 60. Western Montana has sent out a plea that the three who have been putting on the trials for the last 14 years are wearing out. Guess what-- the Shadow knows.
Thanks for giving back to the sport.
01-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Whoa! As the Spring 2008 Field Trial Chairman for Buckeye Retriever Club, I'm really confused. Who said Buckeye Retriever Club is no longer having field trials? No one told me!
Our Annual dinner is tomorrow night and I'd like to address this.
I have not scrutinized this thread but I'll make a comment. Pro's train dogs for Amateurs. I for one have a full time job and can't train my three dogs. But I love the sport, support the events and have a love for retrievers in general. So when people say they are sick of Pro's what are they really sick of? Competition?
There are many Amateurs that make a living off this sport, own eight to twelve dogs, train every day and have a money tree in their backyard. Should they be considered Professionals?
Lanse, marry me, support my dogs, and I'll bring my dogs home and trian them myself. But, until I win the lotto or marry Warren Buffett , I'll be using a Pro. I'm glad they're here for us working folk.
So my advice for all of us Amateurs 2008? "Quit whinning and trian harder".
01-11-2008, 04:42 PM
People are finally starting to get it.What took you so long to finally realize that it's not much fun working to put on an event, get penciled in the first series and then hang around the rest of the weekend working for someone you don't even know, and to see who gets to take the club silver home and most of the time out of state.
There's a lot who think that this game will survive without people like you and every other good hearted armature that works his or her butt off at these weekend trials not to mention the nationals which they give up a week or so of their time and money to be overworked and under payed again.
There's a few pros that work at these trials, and I have been told by some that they will do anything that we need them to do and to those of you I thank you,but there is an awful lot that roll into town, run their dogs and go home without a thank you or kiss my butt. A hand full of pros put on PRTA trials but some pros don't even belong to PRTA, and some of us even get asked to work that trial !
80 to 110 dog opens are no picnic and they effect everyone from the contestant that gets penciled, the bird throwers sitting out in the hot sun or driving rain even though they get paid they won't come back, to the marshalls who try to keep some kind of order, to the judges who constantly feel they are under the gun to finish so they are folding pages at a fast pace,to the land owner who wonders where in the heck did all these trucks come from and who's going to fix that road that just got tore up,to trying to get dinner that night because you don't get out of the field till well after sundown, not to mention the clean up party on Monday if you can find anyone around to help pick up trash.
I wonder when some people will finally figure it out, no armatures, no trials,no nationals.
So pros your nice people and a detriment to the sport but please stay home run and support your own local trials and help put on those events before the rest of us decide to fully retire from active service. Last I checked not many people under the age of 55 entering this sport.This is a hobby for most of us not a job !
01-11-2008, 07:20 PM
I am one of the "younger crowd" that's involved in this sport and it's pretty discouraging, to say the least.
When I first started, I was taught by my father to "give back" and I worked every trial I attended. I marshalled, threw, planted blinds, ran lunches, help set up, clean up, anything and everything the club asked me to do. That was fine and dandy in the minor stakes. When I moved my first dog up to the all-age, I could never make it past the first series. Reason being, I was working my tail off and not able to see the stakes my dog was in. Couldn't see what the dogs, other handlers, or even the pros were doing. Then it got worse, I marshalled an amateur stake. I gotta tell you, you may think the pros stink, but they're a whole heckuva lot easier to marshall for. Amateurs yelled at me, overrode me, I even had one cuss me out. When I checked with the Head Marshall, it turned out I was right, but do you think anyone cared or apologized? Heck NO!!!
So, all in all, I was helping the clubs, and paying to enter my dog to get one flyer and out, then working the whole weekend until the bitter end. I learned nothing about the game and my dogs did not improve, and I was treated like crap.
In one instance, I marshalled an open for 3 days, and NEVER saw one amateur dog run. I made to the fourth, how, I don't know, but was kept at the open and not relieved by anyone to run my dog until the amateur marshalls were screaming for me to get over there after every series was completed. Then after the last dogs ran the open, and I was cleaning up with 2 other marshalls who are one of the "older crowd who ALWAYS work", one of the board members (standing around doing nothing) said they should have fired us.
Don't bother, I quit.
I train my OWN dogs, and I work a full time job (the last year two jobs), I run a handful of trials a year, because that's all I can afford now. No one is willing to help anyone younger get into the sport or improve. Instead we're looked at like "fresh meat", then chewed up and spit out.
I have no problem helping, and I would love to work/judge trials, but not when I have to use vacation time from work and then be treated so poorly. I could stay at work for that!
I've since moved, and I'm hoping the area I'm in will treat a newcomer a lot better. They've got someone ready and willing to help out, because lucky for them, my father also taught me to give second chances, and I'm willing to try again for the sport I love.
01-13-2008, 12:40 PM
Sally- I appologize for the misinformation re The Buckeye trial. I was geographically confused, it was and is Ohio Valley Retriever Club who has discontinued their Professional Benefit Liscensed Field Trial. As to marriage let's start by practicing, after all I have to be trained, and incidently I will not consider anyother proposal unless your mother and a large bottle of Absolute vodka accompanies you. XXOOO Lanse
01-14-2008, 08:51 AM
Pro's train dogs for Amateurs. I for one have a full time job and can't train my three dogs. But I love the sport, support the events and have a love for retrievers in general. So when people say they are sick of Pro's what are they really sick of? Competition?
Great post, Sally. Some of us are not "home with our families" but out working to pay the bills so our dogs can have a chance, and we get the chance to occassionally run them when we might have a weekend off.
Some of us do work our club trials, judge trials, and train part of our own dogs, and know a bit about bird placement (although since I"ll never be as old as Lanse :D, I'll never have his years of experience). Some of us have trained and titled tracking dogs at all levels, and probably know more out wind, terrain and scent then what any one human being would care to know in a lifetime.
It should not be a contest as to who does more..... but I believe there are ways to get the pros to kick in some help.
Lanse, marry me, support my dogs, and I'll bring my dogs home and trian them myself. But, until I win the lotto or marry Warren Buffett, I'll be using a Pro. I'm glad they're here for us working folk.
If Lanse isn't into pologamy, I'll take Richard Gere, Sally. I'm glad for the pros, also.
Workin' More than 9-5 regards-
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