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View Full Version : Coleman vs. Franken ?????



Ken Bora
11-18-2008, 12:30 PM
You guys in Mn still counting? Is Franken that popular?

dlsweep
11-18-2008, 12:39 PM
Is Franken that popular? Not in my neck of the woods. I did see a map from the CNN site that broke down the election by county. I will try to find it.

Goose
11-18-2008, 12:39 PM
They're double-counting for Franken bringing back memories of hanging chad.

dlsweep
11-18-2008, 12:46 PM
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/individual/#mapSMN

Keep in mind that approximately 1/2 of the population resides in the seven county metro area.

Hoosier
11-18-2008, 01:32 PM
This is a state that brought you Paul Wellstone. Minnesota is extremely liberal, the republicans here are pretty much just moderate Democrats. I do like the Governor though.

Bob Gutermuth
11-18-2008, 01:39 PM
Franken aka Stuart Smalley is a real loose cannon, he belongs in the Senate about as much as Fat Michael Moore.

DEN/TRU/CRU
11-18-2008, 02:01 PM
Let me explain what's going on. The NorthEastern part of Minnesota is Iron Mining (Taconite), hence Union Labor, Hence Democrat for the most part. Unfortunately the mentality ( in a very pro hunting / pro gun region) is vote strictly by party line even if the craziest, dumbest, most unfit SOB is running on the ticket! Sorry to say these are not thinking people looking at the issues, it's strictly I'm a Democrat so I have to vote for all Democrates even if there's someone else running that would better match my view on the issues. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is up here.

Dennis

P.S. I'm PRO GUN / PRO HUNTING and I vote for those who best match my views on the issues. Coleman will win!

K.Bullock
11-18-2008, 02:08 PM
Let me explain what's going on. The NorthEastern part of Minnesota is Iron Mining (Taconite), hence Union Labor, Hence Democrat for the most part. Unfortunately the mentality ( in a very pro hunting / pro gun region) is vote strictly by party line even if the craziest, dumbest, most unfit SOB is running on the ticket! Sorry to say these are not thinking people looking at the issues, it's strictly I'm a Democrat so I have to vote for all Democrates even if there's someone else running that would better match my view on the issues. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is up here.

Dennis

P.S. I'm PRO GUN / PRO HUNTING and I vote for those who best match my views on the issues. Coleman will win!

That explains it. I wondered why Minn. was consistently blue(besides the cold). That is the the way it is around here pro-gun, pro-life, but pro-union takes precedence over everything.

Golddogs
11-18-2008, 04:33 PM
You guys in Mn still counting? Is Franken that popular?

Franken has a chance and isn't the airhead most believe him to be. The best choice was Barkley. The recount is mandatory and the numbers will change. Coleman was a good for the city of St.Paul as mayor but has been a lapdog as a senator and a real dissapointment. I have a hard time trusting people that change parties like they change underwear. He knew he would not get the dem endorsement for gov a few years back and switched to become the new rep golden boy. That fiascoe gave us Jesse. He should go, but the alternative??? This was the most ugly race we have ever experienced here and it turned off a lot of people and again it is a shame Barkley did not win.

I feel Coleman will pull it out unless the courts allow ALL of the absentee ballots in question to be counted. They are from Mpls and most likley heavy toward the Dem's. If he does I hope he works to become a better Senator for us.

The question came up at the Master National about all of the Obama and Franken signs seen around the range. I explained the union infuence held over from the 20's and how slow they are to change to independent thought. But then, sheep following the party line is pretty universal and nation wide.

No decision till the new year regards

Illinois Bob
11-18-2008, 06:29 PM
On our recent drive through Minnesota before the election we saw the Franken signs everywhere.As usual while on vacation we sometimes bring back souveniers.I figured Al Franken was kind of a joke and my brother has a sense of humor so I thought maybe I would bring him back one of those signs so he would have a piece of history and something to laugh at at the same time.The thought actually crossed my mind about taking one but my conservative values kicked in and I let them all be(chickened out).I took this photo instead.It's a good thing too because after that I saw all those people in the news getting in serious trouble for that.:cool:
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/trackerlab/IMG_2789.jpg

Oregon Lab Lover
11-18-2008, 07:54 PM
I feel Coleman will pull it out unless the courts allow ALL of the absentee ballots in question to be counted.


Why would the courts not allow all the votes to be counted and why would one not want all the votes to be counted??

Bruce MacPherson
11-18-2008, 08:25 PM
Why would the courts not allow all the votes to be counted and why would one not want all the votes to be counted??

Because, and you should know this being from Oregon, some sympathetic judges make rulings based on whatever political party put them in power. You might not count all the votes if some of the votes came from people that had no right to vote in the first place.

Oregon Lab Lover
11-19-2008, 03:21 AM
Because, and you should know this being from Oregon, some sympathetic judges make rulings based on whatever political party put them in power. You might not count all the votes if some of the votes came from people that had no right to vote in the first place.

I understand that but the original quote came across to me that since the votes came from MSP and it leans heavy to the left then those votes shouldn't be counted. Maybe I just took it the wrong way.

subroc
11-19-2008, 06:00 AM
Franken has a chance and isn't the airhead most believe him to be...

Really?!?!

Hoosier
11-19-2008, 07:56 AM
Why would the courts not allow all the votes to be counted and why would one not want all the votes to be counted??

I think some of those ballets came in past the deadline.

Golddogs
11-19-2008, 11:20 AM
I understand that but the original quote came across to me that since the votes came from MSP and it leans heavy to the left then those votes shouldn't be counted. Maybe I just took it the wrong way.

The ballots in question were absentee ballots. An election judge could not access a storage unit and so kept them in a locked car overnight. I do not believe anything unseemly took place at all. The person did what they could and kept them secure.

It just happened they were from Mpls which voted very heavy Franken. As it now stands, I believe all of the ballots will be recounted/counted.

Henry V
11-19-2008, 11:25 PM
Let the process work itself out.

The certified vote margin was 206 votes. This margin, by statute (e.g. law), requires a recount. The local folks are conducting the recount as I type this. The system is working just as specified in law. All legitimate/legal votes should be counted and we shall see the end result. If you want to know the positions of the candidates visit their websites.

subroc
11-20-2008, 06:07 AM
a recount article:

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/whistleblower/2008/11/19/one-challenge-headed-to-the-state-so-far-in-plymouth/

YardleyLabs
11-20-2008, 07:26 AM
The Star Tribune is providing an on-going report on the status of the recount (http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html). As of this morning, 18% of votes have been recounted. Coleman has challenged 146 votes, Franken 123. Coleman has lost 86 votes to date and Franken 45, meaning the gap between the candidates has shrunk to 174 with Coleman leading. There will continue to be changes throughout the counting process. At the end, the canvass board, which includes two republicans, with the balance independents (no Democrats) will review all challenges. They will also need to decide whether to review absentee ballots that were excluded from the counts or leave that to subsequent judicial review. It is pretty clear that there are some number of absentee ballots that were excluded incorrectly and that absentee ballots in this election favor Franken. Coleman does not want these to be reviewed until a winner has been declared, saying that the individual affected can then sue. He sought to prevent districts from disclosing a list of excluded voters to the Franken campaign to prevent challenges. Franken has sued to obtain copies of the names of excluded voters so that challenges can be put together and errors corrected during the recount. So far this case has had to be filed in each district that refused to provide the names (many already have). Only one case was decided and Franken won.

Unlike Florida, Minnesota appears to have an essentially non-partisan process in place and a good track record of performing recounts. They routinely audit the effectiveness of their counting machines and have a good understanding on what factors contribute to errors. Based on this understanding the expectation is that the final vote counts for each candidate may vary by several hundred votes.

The Minnesota law specifically indicates that a human interpretation is the final determinant of a valid ballot since machines are known to produce errors. The margin of difference between the two candidates is well within the range that could have resulted from an erroneous machine count which is why the law mandates a manual recount. For all intents and purposes, the election ended in a tie subject to completion of the recount. The preliminary certification of results won't happen until December 16 when the canvass board meets. At that point it can be expected that the loser will file a court suit concerning excluded absentee ballots. Since several thousand absentee ballots were excluded and the final result will presumably be within a few hundred, those excluded ballots will ultimately determine the election which is why the Franken campaign has asked for a review of them to be included in the recount to avoid prolonging the process even further.

Chris Atkinson
11-20-2008, 07:47 AM
".......I'm smart enough. I'm good enough.....and Doggonit, people like me!"

Hew
11-20-2008, 03:33 PM
Here's an example of a ballot that Franken wants thrown out:

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/whistleblower/2008/11/19/one-challenge-headed-to-the-state-so-far-in-plymouth/

Paul Johnson
11-20-2008, 03:54 PM
You folks in Minnesota need to take a lesson from Washington State. In the 2004 governors race re-count new ballots were found 18 different times, many from the same place. These "misplaced" ballots changed the winner. When the other party contested the re-count results in court, the court found that indeed, voter fraud had taken place. The other party appealed the verdict to the state Supreme Court that found that indeed voter fraud had taken place but that voter fraud was no reason to overturn an election.

Guess which party won the governors race and what the party affiliation was for the supreme court justices that stated that voter fraud was not a reason to overturn the election.

Golddogs
11-20-2008, 04:05 PM
You folks in Minnesota need to take a lesson from Washington State. In the 2004 governors race re-count new ballots were found 18 different times, many from the same place. These "misplaced" ballots changed the winner. When the other party contested the re-count results in court, the court found that indeed, voter fraud had taken place. The other party appealed the verdict to the state Supreme Court that found that indeed voter fraud had taken place but that voter fraud was no reason to overturn an election.

Guess which party won the governors race and what the party affiliation was for the supreme court justices that stated that voter fraud was not a reason to overturn the election.

Thank goodness we are not Washington State.

Mandatory Recount Regards

Golddogs
11-20-2008, 04:13 PM
Here's an example of a ballot that Franken wants thrown out:

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/whistleblower/2008/11/19/one-challenge-headed-to-the-state-so-far-in-plymouth/

Hew, the St.Paul Pioneer Press showed almost the exact same ballot only the vote was for Franken and Coleman people challanged it.

The re-count judges have had a talk with all of the " observers " to explain the challange proceedure and to please not waste everyones time with crap like this. The re-count people are doing a great job and putting up with a lot from both sides. Only a real idiot will not be satisfied when the re-count is finalized. Both men want to emerge the winner and will be satisfied with the effort put forth.. What is going on now is politics and not unexpected. Silly, but not unexpected.

Every Coin Has Two Sides Regards

Buzz
11-20-2008, 04:15 PM
Here's an example of a ballot that Franken wants thrown out:

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/whistleblower/2008/11/19/one-challenge-headed-to-the-state-so-far-in-plymouth/


I thought this one was much more interesting. It shows ballots that are challenged by both sides. My prediction, a lot of the ballots being challenged by either side will in the end by counted by the canvassing board. Both sides are pushing their luck.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2008/11/19_challenged_ballots/

YardleyLabs
11-20-2008, 04:46 PM
I thought this one was much more interesting. It shows ballots that are challenged by both sides. My prediction, a lot of the ballots being challenged by either side will in the end by counted by the canvassing board. Both sides are pushing their luck.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2008/11/19_challenged_ballots/

That was a very interesting set of examples. My "votes" were consistent with the majority in each case. I wonder how the canvass panel will rule on the same ones. So far there have not been a lot of challenges. I suspect almost all will be thrown out.

Hew
11-20-2008, 05:07 PM
I suspect almost all will be thrown out.
I would hope. Any hooplehead too stupid to bubble a circle should be disenfranchised on principle.

YardleyLabs
11-20-2008, 05:17 PM
I would hope. Any hooplehead too stupid to bubble a circle should be disenfranchised on principle.

I meant the challenges, not the ballots. The law says that if the voter's intent is clear the vote must be counted. During the recount votes are being changed by the counters on a regular basis whether there is a challenge or not. With 23% of votes counted the difference is now 160 votes. If all challenges are rejected, the difference would be about 90 votes since Coleman is challenging about 50% more times than Franken. I still believe this election will hinge on the review of rejected absentee ballots.

Uncle Bill
11-20-2008, 05:29 PM
I would hope. Any hooplehead too stupid to bubble a circle should be disenfranchised on principle.


Thar ya go! And if ya live in Florida, ya learn what a hooplehead is every time there's an election. Heh heh heh heh

Unfortunately, Hew...the peoples republic of Minesoooooooota probably has several on that recount board.

But it speaks volumns eh? How the hayel could a freak like Franken become the standard bearer for the DFL??? Apparently they've been drinking the lutefisk lye. Who woulda thunk Ole, Lena, and Sven could be duped that easily?

UB

Henry V
11-20-2008, 09:32 PM
UB,

Thanks for your support for the great citizens of Minnesota.

Don't worry, with either Senator we'll still keep doing our part to subsidize your state's existence with our federal tax dollars.

Do you really want us to stop drinking the lye???;)

Henry V
11-20-2008, 09:40 PM
Since so many seem so interested, fair and balanced MN recount stuff also at http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/2008/campaign/senate/recount/

with, as buzz previously noted, a bunch of ballot examples at: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2008/11/19_challenged_ballots/

Hew
11-21-2008, 03:36 AM
Who woulda thunk Ole, Lena, and Sven could be duped that easily?
Minnesotans' political acumen has historically been so
spot-on, what with their reverence of such notable political big-thinkers as Hubert Humprey, Fritz Mondale, Jesse Ventura and Garrison Keillor. Oh yeah, I'm stunned that those brainiacs are on the verge of electing a flaming liberal comic (allegedly) to the US Senate. :rolleyes:;-)

Hoosier
11-21-2008, 08:25 AM
Minnesotans' political acumen has historically been so
spot-on, what with their reverence of such notable political big-thinkers as Hubert Humprey, Fritz Mondale, Jesse Ventura and Garrison Keillor. Oh yeah, I'm stunned that those brainiacs are on the verge of electing a flaming liberal comic (allegedly) to the US Senate. :rolleyes:;-)

You hit the nail on the head. You forgot Paul Wellstone. Is't like the UAW formed a state.

Golddogs
11-21-2008, 10:21 AM
I would hope. Any hooplehead too stupid to bubble a circle should be disenfranchised on principle.

Careful Hew, your hanging chad's are showing. :)

Not so easy to color in an oval while shaking from the cold regards

Uncle Bill
11-21-2008, 12:11 PM
UB,

Thanks for your support for the great citizens of Minnesota.

Don't worry, with either Senator we'll still keep doing our part to subsidize your state's existence with our federal tax dollars.

Do you really want us to stop drinking the lye???;)


Wouldn't think of it, Henry. Bet it goes well with all that kool-aid you folks have been guzzling...

BTW, how is this years crop of lutefisk? Is that a 'farmed' product?...or does the "old country" send you a care package for the holidays?

Keep the $$$$ coming. Always happy to hear how much you libs enjoy sharing the wealth. It's how you live, and I for one am appreciative. You get your jollys by sharing, we enjoy reciprocating by receiving. Wot a country eh?

UB

Henry V
11-21-2008, 12:33 PM
Hew and Hoosier,
Yes, given the nature of the people here and their ability to make decisions, it is amazing this state even still exists. ;)

What's even more amazing is that demographers expect the state to grow far more than any other state in the upper Midwest in the next 30 years. Go figure that a state like this could maintain a relatively healthy and diverse economy, with model health care and education systems, and a good quality of life, etc., etc., even though we have "high taxes", "big government" and are a net exporter of federal tax dollars.

Chuck, since some of these folks seem well aware of the politicians this state has produced, do any politicians from their states come readily to mind? ..... Me either. Also, aren't you glad to see that at least some of the riffraff still has no interest in living here?

Henry V
11-21-2008, 12:44 PM
UB,
Great response but I need to make a point of clarification. I never said that I "enjoyed" subsidize your state's existence with my federal tax dollars. I just stated the facts. Do not assume I enjoy it.

Hoosier
11-21-2008, 12:59 PM
Hew and Hoosier,
Yes, given the nature of the people here and their ability to make decisions, it is amazing this state even still exists. ;)

What's even more amazing is that demographers expect the state to grow far more than any other state in the upper Midwest in the next 30 years. Go figure that a state like this could maintain a relatively healthy and diverse economy, with model health care and education systems, and a good quality of life, etc., etc., even though we have "high taxes", "big government" and are a net exporter of federal tax dollars.

Chuck, since some of these folks seem well aware of the politicians this state has produced, do any politicians from their states come readily to mind? ..... Me either. Also, aren't you glad to see that at least some of the riffraff still has no interest in living here?

I live in MN it's my wifes home state. This population growth your talking about is going to be due in large part to MN being a welfare magnet state, and the breeding that goes along with that class of people. It's the politicians that we're named who are responsible for this welfare mentality. So what we have now is a state that will break under the weight of it's own social programs once the population gets to that point. The cold used to keep the riff raff out, but we gave enough money and now they will put up with it. Drive down Lake street in the winter, the population seems to be half what it is in the summer. Working people go out no matter what the weather.

Joe S.
11-21-2008, 01:05 PM
I would hope. Any hooplehead too stupid to bubble a circle should be disenfranchised on principle.

What's a hooplehead?

I'm A Poor Excuse For A Cunning Linguist Regards,

Joe S.

Hew
11-21-2008, 01:22 PM
What's even more amazing is that demographers expect the state to grow far more than any other state in the upper Midwest in the next 30 years.
Wow. An amazing achievement, that. That's akin to the Indian Chief bragging that he's the least gay member of Village People (not that there's anything wrong with that ;-)).

Hew
11-21-2008, 01:25 PM
Careful Hew, your hanging chad's are showing. :)

Not so easy to color in an oval while shaking from the cold reagards
LOL. And wearing thick mittens to boot. Touche.

Hey, I have equal disdain for idiots in all geographical regions. If a New Jerseyite transplant is too dumb to vote using a punch card in West Palm then they should be chased out of the polls with a stick.

Hew
11-21-2008, 01:35 PM
What's a hooplehead?

I'm A Poor Excuse For A Cunning Linguist Regards,

Joe S.
I don't have a clue where that word comes from or why. It just sounds funny. Al Swearengen on "Deadwood" calls 'em that. Hopefully it's not the Minnesotan version of the N word.

Henry V
11-21-2008, 01:36 PM
The sky is blue.

Agree or disagree.

Hoosier
11-21-2008, 02:01 PM
The sky is blue.

Agree or disagree.

Agree,
So how was the fishing over in your area this year. I fish Mille Lacs alot and did OK. I haven't been over in your area for a while, but might ice fish over that way some.

Ken Bora
12-29-2008, 06:27 PM
so... you guys pick a winner yet?

Henry V
12-29-2008, 07:50 PM
Not yet, but a certified result is expected within the next month. Then there will likely be a lawsuit. Check out this thread down the page http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34184

Also http://www.sos.state.mn.us/home/index.asp, www.startribune.com, and www.mpr.org have lots of information and analysis. UB's favorite candidate from the great state of Minnesota, Mr. Franken, is leading now.

Richard Halstead
01-03-2009, 02:11 PM
The sky is blue.

Agree or disagree.

I disagree moisture in the atmosphere reflects the blue spectrum.

As of noon Saturday Al Franken leads Norm Coleman 49 but the absentee ballots to count so my vote hasn't been counted yet let alone unseal the envelope. I voted early and don't remember for the carpet bagger Al Franken or the guy who's always on fact finding trips.

YardleyLabs
01-05-2009, 08:47 AM
Well, it looks like the race will be certified for Franken today unless the State Supreme Court issues a contrary ruling. Franken's margin of 225 votes is now greater than the number of votes that the Coleman campaign claims were double counted. Coleman is also trying to get another 600+ absentee votes counted although the primary basis for including them over the objections of the local boards appears to be that they were filed by registered Republicans -- many are not even signed as required by State law. Of course, that would also open the door to including another 400-500 votes that the election boards said were erroneously excluded but that the Coleman campaign vetoed to prevent counting. These are expected to heavily favor Franken.

All in all, it looks like Franken will end up with the job. Unfortunately, it's not clear that either candidate would necessarily do a good job for Minnesotans. If Coleman hadn't done such a terrible job over the lat six years he would have had no difficulty defeating a schlemiel like Franken. Franken will definitely have to pick up his game or face retirement after a single term.

Hoosier
01-05-2009, 09:18 AM
As a long time resident of Minnesota I would like to apologize for what we are inflicting on the country. In the whole state the best we could come up with is some clown who hasn't lived here for 38 years. We get our political representatives from the WWF and Saturday Night Live. That's the best we can do. We are hoping to get Randy Moss back so he can represent us in the house next election.

Eric Johnson
01-05-2009, 11:16 AM
Per the Wall Street Journal:

>>If the Canvassing Board certifies Mr. Franken as the winner based on the current count, it will be anointing a tainted and undeserving Senator.<<

The story that leads the writer to this conclusion is at

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123111967642552909.html

In short, the Sec of State is acting in a partisan fashion and it goes downhill from there. The Canvassing Board will do whatever it can to put votes in Franken's column. They ruled one way in the case of a county's mishandling of ballots and gave votes to Franken. Then they turned around and in a identical situation, elected to not honor the mishandling of votes and gave the votes to Franken. In both cases, more total votes than registered voters.

Eric

kjrice
01-05-2009, 01:04 PM
I guess Barney Frank will have a new pal.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/kjrice/al_franken_bunny_web.jpg

K.Bullock
01-05-2009, 04:04 PM
As a long time resident of Minnesota I would like to apologize for what we are inflicting on the country. In the whole state the best we could come up with is some clown who hasn't lived here for 38 years. We get our political representatives from the WWF and Saturday Night Live. That's the best we can do. We are hoping to get Randy Moss back so he can represent us in the house next election.

Apology accepted. If in the future it seems that you will have a shortage of acceptable candidates for political office, just call. Ohio seems to be teeming with Democrats these days, I am sure we can spare a few.

Henry V
01-05-2009, 11:39 PM
Per the Wall Street Journal:

>>If the Canvassing Board certifies Mr. Franken as the winner based on the current count, it will be anointing a tainted and undeserving Senator.<<

The story that leads the writer to this conclusion is at

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123111967642552909.html

In short, the Sec of State is acting in a partisan fashion and it goes downhill from there. The Canvassing Board will do whatever it can to put votes in Franken's column. They ruled one way in the case of a county's mishandling of ballots and gave votes to Franken. Then they turned around and in a identical situation, elected to not honor the mishandling of votes and gave the votes to Franken. In both cases, more total votes than registered voters.

Eric
For a bit of balance based on the real facts, you may want to check out this article at http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/01/did-wall-street-jorunal-fire-their-fact.html

Buzz
01-06-2009, 08:03 PM
For a bit of balance based on the real facts, you may want to check out this article at http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/01/did-wall-street-jorunal-fire-their-fact.html

Come on Henry! You know it's conservatives that argue with facts, whereas it's those Librols that argue on emotion.

YardleyLabs
01-06-2009, 08:38 PM
Note that the cited WSJ article is not a news story but an unsigned opinion piece. It ignores many inconvenient facts such as the exclusion of several hundred absentee ballots by the Coleman campaign that precincts had determined were excluded inappropriately. It also ignores the facts concerning the "additional" absentee ballots that Coleman wanted to have counted that, as far as anyone could determine were identified based on the party registration of the individuals casting the ballots and with complete disregard for the rules. The Coleman campaign has the legal right to continue the contest in court. It's unhappy with that option since it actually requires the presentation of evidence. In the 2000 election, Gore made the choice to halt his legal challenges to the election in the interests of harmony. Personally, I felt he should have continued to fight even if that delayed the inauguration and that the decision of the court to halt the election when it was undecided because of the electoral college schedule was an abortion of democracy and law. Better to get it right. I feel the same with Coleman. He should continue to fight as long as he is willing to present facts. When all that is left are his complaints that he lost, it's time to shut up and go home. Due process is defined by how decisions are made not what decisions are made.

Eric Johnson
01-06-2009, 10:29 PM
I was merely presenting one side of the issue.

What is the nature of www.fivethirtyeight.com?

Jeff, as I recall, Bush V. Gore found that there was insignificant time left prior to the Electoral College, a milestone that the Florida statute said that had to be accomodated.... the theoretical "safe haven." Gore missed one of the milestones (contest or challenge...not sure which) in Florida. Whereas, he could have taken action sooner, he elected to wait and the 2 weeks (?) spent waiting was the time needed to complete a full recount. Gore argued that they should only recount certain counties. The Supremes said, "No. They all should be re-counted or stop counting." They then remanded the case to the Florida Supremes.

I've had several strokes since that time so my memory is iffy. However, I ran the Legal Forum on Compuserve at the time and we had rather lengthy and clinical discussions on the whole affair. Shall I get you the decision?

Eric

dcr
01-06-2009, 11:15 PM
I thought the purpose of the re-count was to confirm the votes actually cast....the canvassing board approved 133 votes in minneapolis that they can't find.... huh....
that DOES Assume no mistakes were made.....

But in the Maplewood MN district....they found ballots in voting machines days after everything was the election was over--- And I believe there was a district in Northern MN where the Judges went home the night of the election without counting the ballots.
So on one hand WE are supposed to believe election judges don't make mistakes & on the other believe that even if there a minor glitch it's no big deal????

Henry V
01-07-2009, 01:47 AM
I was merely presenting one side of the issue.

What is the nature of www.fivethirtyeight.com?

Eric
Eric, thanks for linking the WSJ article. I was just presenting a counterpoint. I suspect there are other counterpoints out there too.

From what I could tell that website is done by some guy who is really into polling and political data. He has a FAQ page. In this case he seems to take a look at the supposed facts from the WSJ and directly takes most of them apart. If he is wrong let's see the data. WSJ never provided any specifics.

The Star Tribune which endorsed Coleman had a good editorial today commending the recount and also today, Coleman commended the recounting efforts and the process used so far but noted the double counting and the remaining rejected absentee ballot situation which was out of the hands of the canvassing board.

The next step in the process is court but as the fivethirtyeight site post today suggests, it will be awfully hard for Coleman to make up the current difference since, if some double counting occurred, it occurred for both candidates and since the rejected absentee ballots have already been reviewed and rejected by local election officials at least twice it would be unlikely that the courts would accept them and even if they did, Franken has pulled ahead because of absentee ballots that had been rejected in error.
Another few weeks and this should all be done.

Eric Johnson
01-07-2009, 12:04 PM
How much was the outcome influenced by the election being a 3-way race? IOW, if it had been only a 2-way election, would the 3rd parties candidate's votes been split just as evenly or would they have gone largely one way or the other.

Eric

Henry V
04-14-2009, 10:30 AM
For the latest on this soap opera see:
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/42932907.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUec7Pa P3E77K_0c::D3aDhUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

Ken Bora
04-14-2009, 11:03 AM
Franken aka Stuart Smalley is a real loose cannon, he belongs in the Senate about as much as Fat Michael Moore.

LOOKS LIKE HE WON:rolleyes:

Richard Halstead
04-14-2009, 11:04 AM
Let the process work itself out.

The certified vote margin was 206 votes. This margin, by statute (e.g. law), requires a recount. The local folks are conducting the recount as I type this. The system is working just as specified in law. All legitimate/legal votes should be counted and we shall see the end result. If you want to know the positions of the candidates visit their websites.

The system is not working that well. The absentee ballott that I cast well before the deadline may not be counted. My vote was wasted by voting for a 3rd party candidate, now in hindsight I should have cast a main party cadidate.

Bob Gutermuth
04-14-2009, 11:26 AM
I cannot imagine a worse candidate for the Senate than Franken, what a schmuck.

K.Bullock
04-14-2009, 11:47 AM
I cannot imagine a worse candidate for the Senate than Franken, what a schmuck.

Bob..are you serious? Have you looked at Washington lately? There are several options to choose from.

I prefer to look at the positives..apparently he can at least pay his taxes and gosh darnit a little over half the electorate like him.:rolleyes::D

Henry V
04-14-2009, 03:04 PM
The system is not working that well. The absentee ballott that I cast well before the deadline may not be counted. My vote was wasted by voting for a 3rd party candidate, now in hindsight I should have cast a main party cadidate.
Richard,
Do you know whether your absentee ballot was counted or not?
If it was not counted, what was/were the specific reason(s) given by the local election board, the canvassing board, and/or the court?