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Matt McKenzie
02-11-2009, 10:09 AM
Yes or No?

I vote yes, although I fear that we are on the decline.

YardleyLabs
02-11-2009, 10:19 AM
I don't know how anyone can call one country "the best" any more than I would know how to say one state is "the best." America is my home and my country. My family came here 335 years ago and members of my family fought in the Revolution, the Civil War, both World Wars, Korea, and Vietnam. I lived in many countries while I was growing up but never questioned the fact that this is my country, right or wrong. As a citizen, however, I also believe that it is my duty to try to make it better to the extent that I can. For me, America is best. I would hope that people from around the world feel the same about their own countries.

Bob Gutermuth
02-11-2009, 10:22 AM
Before we get too far into the present administration I think that WAS will be the operant word.

K.Bullock
02-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Yes or No?

I vote yes, although I fear that we are on the decline.

When it is all said and done and people can look back through history at all of the societies that have affected the world in a significant way. I think it will be yes absolutely; this has been a great society that the people of the world have benefited from.

Right now it seems that social engineering and revisionism are winning the day, and even if someone agrees this is a good country, they will not say it for fear that someone would think that they are not with it.

badbullgator
02-11-2009, 11:18 AM
That is strictly a matter of opinion and my opinion is YES no matter who is in charge currently. This too shall change some day. I remember when Regan was elected and many of my friedns parents thought it was "the end of the USA as we know it" same was true of many presidents but I hope we are a strong enough nation to survive what ever comes our way

Tatyana
02-11-2009, 11:42 AM
Yes, that's why I came here to live.

Franco
02-11-2009, 12:00 PM
Yes, we STILL are. However, the downward spiral began with LBJ and apathy runs rampant. Rome lasted 1,100 years, will we make it to 250?

Raymond Little
02-11-2009, 12:05 PM
AHH HELL FRANCO, WE CAN STILL CATCH ENOUGH SPECKS TO SURVIVE ON.
Got a bag with your name on it and should be in your Hood next week for
delivery.

Franco
02-11-2009, 12:11 PM
AHH HELL FRANCO, WE CAN STILL CATCH ENOUGH SPECKS TO SURVIVE ON.
Got a bag with your name on it and should be in your Hood next week for
delivery.

Are the specs biting already? Give me a call and we'll go and eat some stuffed turkey wings! I'll be in Coata Rica for Mardi Gras week.

Pete
02-11-2009, 07:38 PM
don't know how anyone can call one country "the best" any more than I would know how to say one state is "the best." America is my home and my country. My family came here 335 years ago and members of my family fought in the Revolution, the Civil War, both World Wars, Korea, and Vietnam. I lived in many countries while I was growing up but never questioned the fact that this is my country, right or wrong. As a citizen, however, I also believe that it is my duty to try to make it better to the extent that I can. For me, America is best. I would hope that people from around the world feel the same about their own countries. Yesterday 04:09 PM

Jeff I totally agree with you. WOW :p:p:p
People have flock here from all over the world for hundreds of years. They must have seen something they like.

I love my country and all the hard working honest people but I loath our treasonous government and those who put the buck before the people.

Pete

JDogger
02-11-2009, 08:00 PM
People have flock here from all over the world for hundreds of years. They must have seen something they like.

I love my country and all the hard working honest people but I loath our treasonous government and those who put the buck before the people.

Pete
Easy answer Pete. Stop re-electing the baskirds. If you feel to old, or unable to do so yourself, encourage someone in the next generation to enter public service. When your son, grandson or your nieghbors or friends son hits the bricks with that new MBA, Law degree or whatever, encourage them to run for office. It just has to start small. Village Council, School board, County Commision, Community development. If they make a good name for themselves, than maybe State Legislature, then who knows, maybe US Senator, Maybe even then, POTUS.

Not as strange as it sounds,

JD

PS I too believe in this country, and I'm one of the other guys.

Patrick Johndrow
02-11-2009, 09:37 PM
Yes or No?

I vote yes, although I fear that we are on the decline.

We still are...we will suffer the next four year and then things will get better and in ten years Obama (the community organgrinder) will be nothing more than a punch line that we will laugh at...this latest B.S. will set liberals back 50 years and for that I thank the Lord.


First thing we do is take back the Republican Party and then the country. :)

JDogger
02-11-2009, 10:11 PM
Recieved via the same email as we all get:

Op-Ed Columnist
The Same Old Song
By BOB HERBERT

What’s up with the Republicans? Have they no sense that their policies have sent the country hurtling down the road to ruin? Are they so divorced from reality that in their delusionary state they honestly believe we need more of their tax cuts for the rich and their other forms of plutocratic irresponsibility, the very things that got us to this deplorable state?

The G.O.P.’s latest campaign is aimed at undermining President Obama’s effort to cope with the national economic emergency by attacking the spending in his stimulus package and repeating ad nauseam the Republican mantra for ever more tax cuts.

“Right now, given the concerns that we have over the size of this package and all the spending in this package, we don’t think it’s going to work,” said Representative John Boehner, an Ohio Republican who is House minority leader. Speaking on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Mr. Boehner said of the plan: “Put me down in the ‘no’ column.”

If anything, the stimulus package is not large enough. Less than 24 hours after Mr. Boehner’s televised exercise in obstructionism, the heavy-equipment company Caterpillar announced that it was cutting 20,000 jobs, Sprint Nextel said it was eliminating 8,000, and Home Depot 7,000.

Maybe the Republicans don’t think there is an emergency. After all, it was Phil Gramm, John McCain’s economic guru, who told us last summer that the pain was all in our heads, that this was a “mental recession.”

The truth, of course, is that the country is hemorrhaging jobs and Americans are heading to the poorhouse by the millions. The stock markets and the value of the family home have collapsed, and there is virtual across-the-board agreement that the country is caught up in the worst economic disaster since at least World War II.

The Republican answer to this turmoil?

Tax cuts.

They need to go into rehab.

The question that I would like answered is why anyone listens to this crowd anymore. G.O.P. policies have been an absolute backbreaker for the middle class. (Forget the poor. Nobody talks about them anymore, not even the Democrats.) The G.O.P. has successfully engineered a wholesale redistribution of wealth to those already at the top of the income ladder and then, in a remarkable display of chutzpah, dared anyone to talk about class warfare.

A stark example of this unholy collaboration between the G.O.P. and the very wealthy was on display in the pages of this newspaper on Jan. 18. The Times’s Mike McIntire wrote an article about the first wave of federal bailout money for the financial industry, which was handed over by the Bush administration with hardly any strings attached. (Congress, under the control of the Democrats, should never have allowed this to happen, but the Democrats are as committed to fecklessness as the Republicans are to tax cuts.)

The public was told that the money would be used to loosen the frozen credit markets and thus help revive the economy. But as the article pointed out, there were bankers with other ideas. John C. Hope III, the chairman of the Whitney National Bank in New Orleans, in an address to Wall Street fat cats gathered at the Palm Beach Ritz-Carlton, said:

“Make more loans? We’re not going to change our business model or our credit policies to accommodate the needs of the public sector as they see it to have us make more loans.”

How’s that for arrogance and contempt for the public interest? Mr. Hope’s bank received $300 million in taxpayer bailout money.

The same article quoted Walter M. Pressey, president of Boston Private Wealth Management, which Mr. McIntire described as a healthy bank with a mostly affluent clientele. It received $154 million in taxpayer money.

“With that capital in hand,” said Mr. Pressey, “not only do we feel comfortable that we can ride out the recession, but we also feel that we’ll be in a position to take advantage of opportunities that present themselves once this recession is sorted out.”

Take advantage, indeed. That, in a nutshell, is what the plutocracy is all about: taking unfair advantage.

When the G.O.P. talks, nobody should listen. Republicans have argued, with the collaboration of much of the media, that they could radically cut taxes while simultaneously balancing the federal budget, when, in fact, big income-tax cuts inevitably lead to big budget deficits. We listened to the G.O.P. and what do we have now? A trillion-dollar-plus deficit and an economy in shambles.

This is the party that preached fiscal discipline and then cut taxes in time of war. This is the party that still wants to put the torch to Social Security and Medicare. This is a party that, given a choice between Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan, would choose Ronald Reagan in a heartbeat.
Why is anyone still listening?

Indeed...why?

JD

Pete
02-11-2009, 11:17 PM
Easy answer Pete. Stop re-electing the baskirds. If you feel to old, or unable to do so yourself, encourage someone in the next generation to enter public service. When your son, grandson or your nieghbors or friends son hits the bricks with that new MBA (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36186&page=2#), Law degree (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36186&page=2#) or whatever, encourage them to run for office. It just has to start small. Village Council, School board, County Commision, Community development. If they make a good name for themselves, than maybe State Legislature, then who knows, maybe US Senator, Maybe even then, POTUS.

Not as strange as it sounds,

JD

PS I too believe in this country, and I'm one of the other guys.
__________________

I haven't been responsable for electin a president since George H Bush first term,,I didn't vote for him the 2nd time around.

My kids hate politics and probably join a revolution just for the hell of it.

I could,t handle running for office I would end up cold cockin my oponents if they got to close:) Or push them off the stage,,,, I don't handle people who lie through their teeth and smile at you and act so concerned about your life when in fact they are only concerned about your vote. You have to be a sneeky little weasle,,two faced forked tongue social pathic phycopathic charmer to get the votes..

Would you vote for me if I ran.:razz::razz:

Pete

JDogger
02-11-2009, 11:27 PM
..

Would you vote for me if I ran.:razz::razz:

Pete

Ya Pete, maybe. You certainly have the passion goin' for ya. Bitchin' on the political sub-forum of a retriever site isn't gonna make a difference now is it?

JD

Matt McKenzie
02-12-2009, 07:04 AM
The question was simple. Yes or no?

Pete
02-12-2009, 09:06 AM
Ya Pete, maybe. You certainly have the passion goin' for ya. Bitchin' on the political sub-forum of a retriever site isn't gonna make a difference now is it?

JD Today 05:17 AM

Someone provide me with the funds and I'm there

I would give up what I love to turn the clock back a 100 years.

Illegal drugs and alliens would come to a screetching halt in my first week.
And so would goverment spending
welfare people who are capable of working
would be put on a work program 12 hours a day 6 days a week doing something
Violent criminals would who are on on death roe would be euthinized the next day

Prisons will be used for non violent scum bags


Politicians will be put on trial and if found guilty of treason,,,executed the following day the ones that weren't treasonous but screwed the public will be thrown in jail

Those that cry our civil rights have been violated will be ignored because they haven't been.
Those that try to be honest and work to make ends meet will be glorified and protected from the domestic terrorists which will be forced back in to their closets.

Incentives to keep businesses in the US will be istituted,

forein countries will not be catered to
The UN building wil be knocked down and a parking lot erected in its place.
Most unions will go by the way side or shipped back to a socialist country where they belong

We will continue to build the most elite fighting force and give all soldiers a pay raise
We will take care of all our vets
Obtuse social programs will seem like a an old childhood dream not really knowing if it really had occured.

OK thats my first month or so

Is there anything here that seems unamerican let me know:razz::razz:
I want do the best I can for the great people of our nation

Pete

stoney
02-13-2009, 12:03 AM
I don't know how anyone can call one country "the best" any more than I would know how to say one state is "the best." America is my home and my country. My family came here 335 years ago and members of my family fought in the Revolution, the Civil War, both World Wars, Korea, and Vietnam. I lived in many countries while I was growing up but never questioned the fact that this is my country, right or wrong. As a citizen, however, I also believe that it is my duty to try to make it better to the extent that I can. For me, America is best. I would hope that people from around the world feel the same about their own countries.

great to see a measured response.how can anyone possible manage to have an informed opinion on what is the best country until they have lived in at least alot of them???
if you wont tthe highest standard of living maybe we should move to luxenbourg or sweden
the worlds best sporting country is currently south africa and it has some beautiful places to live.I might be wrong but the richest per capita might be monte carlo. the prettiest country in the world is New Zealand. I lived in Texas and nor cal for ten years and that was terriffic but there are plenty of places in the states that are a million miles from the best in the world
I like australia but i hope i never fall victim to blind patriotism

Franco
02-13-2009, 07:16 AM
Recieved via the same email as we all get:

Op-Ed Columnist
The Same Old Song
By BOB HERBERT

What’s up with the Republicans? Have they no sense that their policies have sent the country hurtling down the road to ruin? Are they so divorced from reality that in their delusionary state they honestly believe we need more of their tax cuts for the rich and their other forms of plutocratic irresponsibility, the very things that got us to this deplorable state?

The G.O.P.’s latest campaign is aimed at undermining President Obama’s effort to cope with the national economic emergency by attacking the spending in his stimulus package and repeating ad nauseam the Republican mantra for ever more tax cuts.

“Right now, given the concerns that we have over the size of this package and all the spending in this package, we don’t think it’s going to work,” said Representative John Boehner, an Ohio Republican who is House minority leader. Speaking on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Mr. Boehner said of the plan: “Put me down in the ‘no’ column.”

If anything, the stimulus package is not large enough. Less than 24 hours after Mr. Boehner’s televised exercise in obstructionism, the heavy-equipment company Caterpillar announced that it was cutting 20,000 jobs, Sprint Nextel said it was eliminating 8,000, and Home Depot 7,000.

Maybe the Republicans don’t think there is an emergency. After all, it was Phil Gramm, John McCain’s economic guru, who told us last summer that the pain was all in our heads, that this was a “mental recession.”

The truth, of course, is that the country is hemorrhaging jobs and Americans are heading to the poorhouse by the millions. The stock markets and the value of the family home have collapsed, and there is virtual across-the-board agreement that the country is caught up in the worst economic disaster since at least World War II.

The Republican answer to this turmoil?

Tax cuts.

They need to go into rehab.

The question that I would like answered is why anyone listens to this crowd anymore. G.O.P. policies have been an absolute backbreaker for the middle class. (Forget the poor. Nobody talks about them anymore, not even the Democrats.) The G.O.P. has successfully engineered a wholesale redistribution of wealth to those already at the top of the income ladder and then, in a remarkable display of chutzpah, dared anyone to talk about class warfare.

A stark example of this unholy collaboration between the G.O.P. and the very wealthy was on display in the pages of this newspaper on Jan. 18. The Times’s Mike McIntire wrote an article about the first wave of federal bailout money for the financial industry, which was handed over by the Bush administration with hardly any strings attached. (Congress, under the control of the Democrats, should never have allowed this to happen, but the Democrats are as committed to fecklessness as the Republicans are to tax cuts.)

The public was told that the money would be used to loosen the frozen credit markets and thus help revive the economy. But as the article pointed out, there were bankers with other ideas. John C. Hope III, the chairman of the Whitney National Bank in New Orleans, in an address to Wall Street fat cats gathered at the Palm Beach Ritz-Carlton, said:

“Make more loans? We’re not going to change our business model or our credit policies to accommodate the needs of the public sector as they see it to have us make more loans.”

How’s that for arrogance and contempt for the public interest? Mr. Hope’s bank received $300 million in taxpayer bailout money.

The same article quoted Walter M. Pressey, president of Boston Private Wealth Management, which Mr. McIntire described as a healthy bank with a mostly affluent clientele. It received $154 million in taxpayer money.

“With that capital in hand,” said Mr. Pressey, “not only do we feel comfortable that we can ride out the recession, but we also feel that we’ll be in a position to take advantage of opportunities that present themselves once this recession is sorted out.”

Take advantage, indeed. That, in a nutshell, is what the plutocracy is all about: taking unfair advantage.

When the G.O.P. talks, nobody should listen. Republicans have argued, with the collaboration of much of the media, that they could radically cut taxes while simultaneously balancing the federal budget, when, in fact, big income-tax cuts inevitably lead to big budget deficits. We listened to the G.O.P. and what do we have now? A trillion-dollar-plus deficit and an economy in shambles.

This is the party that preached fiscal discipline and then cut taxes in time of war. This is the party that still wants to put the torch to Social Security and Medicare. This is a party that, given a choice between Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan, would choose Ronald Reagan in a heartbeat.
Why is anyone still listening?

Indeed...why?

JD

This is garbage!

Pete
02-13-2009, 08:30 AM
great to see a measured response.how can anyone possible manage to have an informed opinion on what is the best country until they have lived in at least alot of them???
if you wont tthe highest standard of living maybe we should move to luxenbourg or sweden
the worlds best sporting country is currently south africa and it has some beautiful places to live.I might be wrong but the richest per capita might be monte carlo. the prettiest country in the world is New Zealand. I lived in Texas and nor cal for ten years and that was terriffic but there are plenty of places in the states that are a million miles from the best in the world
I like australia but i hope i never fall victim to blind patriotism Yesterday 03:06 PM

If you ask the pigmy deep in the forest who make a drink out of fermented spitand many a shot of piss where is the best place to live they would probably say right under that mango tree.

Where you live is usually where your heart is wheather its the getto or the wilderness.

I would think the US has proven to be the place for people seeking a better life in the last 400 years.
I m not sure if it is or will be for much longer

I say live free or die where ever you might be.

Pete

tpaschal30
02-13-2009, 09:06 AM
No other country has ever freed so many from tyranny! Not even close!!

stoney
02-13-2009, 08:49 PM
No other country has ever freed so many from tyranny! Not even close!!
what an extradionary statement!!!!!!!
on what facts do you base this wild hypothesis????

Patrick Johndrow
02-13-2009, 09:32 PM
what an extradionary statement!!!!!!!
on what facts do you base this wild hypothesis????

fact..........

stoney
02-13-2009, 10:15 PM
please fill me in on "fact"
By far the dominant world power over the last 400 years has been the Brits. the british empire covered 1/4 of the worlds population for over 200 years. i was the Brits who abolished the slave trade in the 1820's 40 years before the civil war
i would be interested to see who tpaschal30 thinks the Americans have freed from tyranny.
by the way I like your signature attributed to socrates wasnt it?

Tatyana
02-13-2009, 10:43 PM
by the way I like your signature attributed to socrates wasnt it?

I believe it is a proverb.

Steve
02-13-2009, 10:53 PM
This is garbage!

Not even close. Animals will pick through garbage for scraps. This isn't worthy.

Don't the lefties know that if the right wing went away, they would starve to death. If the left wing went away....pass the beer nuts.

stoney
02-13-2009, 11:08 PM
I believe it is a proverb.

you might be right but i seem to remember a quote from plato paraphraseing his teacher Socrates
"whose that cannot do , teach"
however I could be wrong

Matt McKenzie
02-14-2009, 06:25 AM
Stoney,
While your input is certainly welcome, my question was directed more toward U.S. citizens in an effort to see which of us believe that we live in the greatest country in the world and which of us do not. If possible, I would prefer that this not turn into a discussion of the attributes of the various countries of the world but simply address the question.
Thanks,
Matt

tpaschal30
02-14-2009, 07:06 AM
please fill me in on "fact"
By far the dominant world power over the last 400 years has been the Brits. the british empire covered 1/4 of the worlds population for over 200 years. i was the Brits who abolished the slave trade in the 1820's 40 years before the civil war
i would be interested to see who tpaschal30 thinks the Americans have freed from tyranny.
by the way I like your signature attributed to socrates wasnt it?

24 million in Iraq
32 million in Afganistan
3 million Kuwait
2 times all of Western Europe including the UK
All the Western Pacific(including China) from Japan
Panama
Grenada
Not to mention winning the cold war and stopping the spread of Communism

zeus3925
02-14-2009, 08:02 AM
This thread is a bit like asking Christians if Jesus is the greatest religious figure. The believers will say, " Of course!"

IowaBayDog
02-14-2009, 08:06 AM
please fill me in on "fact"
By far the dominant world power over the last 400 years has been the Brits. the british empire covered 1/4 of the worlds population for over 200 years. i was the Brits who abolished the slave trade in the 1820's 40 years before the civil war
i would be interested to see who tpaschal30 thinks the Americans have freed from tyranny.
by the way I like your signature attributed to socrates wasnt it?


For a good part of those 400 years the Brits WERE the Tyrants.
1776 Regards.

subroc
02-14-2009, 08:48 AM
...Not to mention winning the cold war and stopping the spread of Communism


We may have won the cold war, but clearly we didn't stop the spread of communism. If anything the world has been and is on a path to communism now. The left in the United States is moving in that direction and embracing communist/socialist ideals with vigor. We now paint capitalists as the enemy in the media as well as films.

tpaschal30
02-14-2009, 09:02 AM
We may have won the cold war, but clearly we didn't stop the spread of communism. If anything the world has been and is on a path to communism now. The left in the United States is moving in that direction and embracing communist/socialist ideals with vigor. We now paint capitalists as the enemy in the media as well as films.

You have a point there. We stopped it the overt cold war. Khrushchev said they would take us without firing a shot. We may have just shot ourselves.

zeus3925
02-14-2009, 10:00 AM
We may have won the cold war, but clearly we didn't stop the spread of communism. If anything the world has been and is on a path to communism now. The left in the United States is moving in that direction and embracing communist/socialist ideals with vigor. We now paint capitalists as the enemy in the media as well as films.

News Flash: Communism is dead. Lek Wolenska, John Paul and Ronald Reagan killed it. It reached its ultimate absurdity and the three of them pushed it over the edge.

subroc
02-14-2009, 10:11 AM
News Flash: Communism is dead. Lek Wolenska, John Paul and Ronald Reagan killed it. It reached its ultimate absurdity and the three of them pushed it over the edge.

I disagree, they won the cold war, they didn't kill communism.

Is socialsm closer to communism or capitalism?

stoney
02-14-2009, 04:16 PM
Stoney,
While your input is certainly welcome, my question was directed more toward U.S. citizens in an effort to see which of us believe that we live in the greatest country in the world and which of us do not. If possible, I would prefer that this not turn into a discussion of the attributes of the various countries of the world but simply address the question.
Thanks,
Matt

sorry Matt
didnt mean to ambush your thread I just assumed a "greatest" "greater than' question would recquire a comparison

tpaschal30
Im not sure that iraq and Afganistan would consider themselves liberated
also I dont think you would find to many serious historians who would agree that the US liberated western europe x 2. the Russians lost 23 million people fighting the germans in WW2 and did the vaste bulk of the fighting. In WW1 the US didnt get involved militarily until 1917
Alot of countrys contributed to liberating europe in the world wars and it is insulting to have their efforts disparaged as insignificent. Here is a break down of who did the sacraficing for liberation
Country Population 1939 Military deaths Civilian deaths Jewish Holocaust deaths Total deaths Deaths as % of 1939 population
Albania[1] 1,073,000 28,000 200 28,200 2.63%
Australia[2] 6,998,000 40,500 700 41,200 0.57%
Austria[3] 6,653,000 40,500 65,000 105,500 1.59%
Belgium[4] 8,387,000 12,100 49,600 24,400 86,100 1.02%
Brazil[5] 40,289,000 1,000 1,000 2,000 0.00%
Bulgaria[6] 6,458,000 22,000 3,000 25,000 0.38%
Burma[7] 16,119,000 22,000 250,000 272,000 1.16%
Canada[8] 11,267,000 45,300 45,300 0.40%
Republic of China[9] 517,568,000 3,800,000 16,200,000 20,000,000 3.86%
Cuba[10] 4,235,000 100 100 0.00%
Czechoslovakia[11] 15,300,000 25,000 43,000 277,000 345,000 2.25%
Denmark[12] 3,795,000 2,100 1,000 100 3,200 0.08%
Estonia[13] 1,134,000 50,000 1,000 51,000 4.50%
Ethiopia[14] 17,700,000 5,000 95,000 100,000 0.6%
Finland[15] 3,700,000 95,000 2,000 97,000 2.62%
France[16] 41,700,000 217,600 267,000 83,000 567,600 1.35%
French Indochina[17] 24,600,000 1,000,000 1,000,000 4.07%
Nazi Germany[18][19][20][21] 69,623,000 5,533,000 1,540,000 160,000 7,233,000 10.38%
Greece[22] 7,222,000 20,000 220,000 71,300 311,300 4.31%
Hungary[23] 9,129,000 300,000 80,000 200,000 580,000 6.35%
Iceland[24] 119,000 200 200 0.17%
Indian Empire[25] 378,000,000 87,000 1,500,000 1,587,000 0.42%
Indonesia[26] 69,435,000 4,000,000 4,000,000 5.76%
Iran[27] 14,340,000 200 200 0.00%
Iraq[28] 3,698,000 1,000 1,000 0.03%
Ireland[29] 2,960,000 200 200 0.00%
Italy[30] 44,394,000 301,400 145,100 8,000 454,500 1.02%
Japan[31] 71,380,000 2,120,000 580,000 2,700,000 3.78%
Korea[32] 23,400,000 378,000 378,000 1.6%
Latvia[33] 1,995,000 147,000 80,000 227,000 11.38%
Lithuania[34] 2,575,000 212,000 141,000 353,000 13.71%
Luxembourg[35] 295,000 1,300 700 2,000 0.68%
Malaya[36] 4,391,000 100,000 100,000 2.28%
Malta[37] 269,000 1,500 1,500 0.56%
Mexico[38] 19,320,000 100 100 0.00%
Micronesia[39] 1,900,000 57,000 57,000 3.00%
Mongolia[40] 819,000 300 300 0.04%
Netherlands[41] 8,729,000 21,000 176,000 104,000 301,000 3.44%
Newfoundland[42] 300,000 1,000 100 1,100 0.37%
New Zealand[43] 1,629,000 11,900 11,900 0.67%
Norway[44] 2,945,000 3,000 5,800 700 9,500 0.32%
Philippines[45] 16,000,000 57,000 90,000 147,000 0.92%
Poland[46] 34,849,000 240,000 2,360,000 3,000,000 5,600,000 16.07%
Portuguese Timor[47] 500,000 55,000 55,000 11.00%
Romania[48] 19,934,000 300,000 64,000 469,000 833,000 4.22%
Singapore[49] 728,000 50,000 50,000 6.87%
South Africa[50] 10,160,000 11,900 11,900 0.12%
Soviet Union[51] 168,500,000 10,700,000 11,400,000 1,000,000 23,100,000 13.71%
Spain[52] 25,637,000 4,500 4,500 0.02%
Sweden[53] 6,341,000 200 2,000 2,200 0.03%
Switzerland[54] 4,210,000 100 100 0.00%
Thailand[55] 15,023,000 5,600 300 5,900 0.04%
United Kingdom[56] 47,760,000 382,700 67,100 449,800 0.94%
United States[57] 131,028,000 416,800 1,700 418,500 0.32%
Yugoslavia[58] 15,400,000 446,000 514,000 67,000 1,027,000 6.67%
Totals 1,961,913,000 25,280,100 41,753,400 5,752,400 72,754,900 3.71%

[hide]Human Losses of World War Two by Continent
Considering all Soviet casualties as European, and all European colonial forces as European as well. Continent Civilian deaths Military deaths Total deaths
Asia 24,203,300 6,093,100 30,296,400
Europe 23,302,800 18,653,600 41,956,400
Africa 95,000 16,900 111,900
Oceania 57,700 52,400 110,100
Americas 3,000 464,100 467,100
Totals 47,661,800 25,280,100 72,941,900


likewise in Iraq and Afganistan the British and Australian involvement although minor compared to the US is still significent. So far we have comprehensively failed to defeat the Taliban so liberation from tyranny is still some ways in the future(hopefully)

IowaBayDog
02-14-2009, 05:53 PM
Sorry Stoney but those countries you listed were getting their arses handed to them on a platter until the U.S. involvement. Maybe across the pond you measure success by how many lives you lose in a war but we like to go by the winner.

You obviously have missed the uncovering of 100s of thousands of mass graves in Iraq and the latest FREE elections in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The Brits and Aussies have been in those conflicts in a small scale, but being there in a small scale doesn't really get you the award for the most effort.

duk4me
02-14-2009, 05:56 PM
The question was simple. Yes or no?
Tried to put yes but to short so the need for this sentence.

YES.

stoney
02-14-2009, 06:38 PM
Sorry Stoney but those countries you listed were getting their arses handed to them on a platter until the U.S. involvement. Maybe across the pond you measure success by how many lives you lose in a war but we like to go by the winner.

.
the war was far from lost before US involvement. the battle of britan had been won and montgomery had driven Rommel back to Tunsia. The 6th army was beeing wiped out at Stalingrad thus reducing the germans of 25% of there overall army. The US never participated in a major european battle before 1943 and that was at the Kasserine Pass and we all now who won that battle. To maintain that WW2 was won primarily by the USA is just plain wrong at least in europe. We measure success by who does the fighting and very clearly the Soviets and there allies did the lions share. Many US veterans would be appalled to hear you disparage Americas many allies in the fight against Nazism

YardleyLabs
02-14-2009, 07:11 PM
I can't imagine anything more ridiculous than trying to prove in some objective way that one country is superior to another. It's in the eyes of the beholder. However, I think you will find that America is more of a savior in its own eyes (or yours) than it is in the eyes of those you claim we have saved. While many Americans seem to blame this on the ingratitude of those we have saved, we seem incapable of putting ourselves in their shoes to understand.

When I was a kid, I lived in Sicily for several years. Sicily never supported Mussolini and supported the Germans even less. They were generally ready to welcome the Allied invasion. After the war, America and the Allies were truly viewed as savior by much of Sicily's population. We would drive through areas in southern and eastern Sicily and people would wave to us happily.

The story was completely different in Northern and western Sicily. Those were the areas that we bombed repeatedly when the offensive bogged down. Thousands of civilians were killed and their homes were destroyed. No such damage had been done by either the Germans or Mussolini and our bombings left us very unpopular.

We actually weren't very concerned either way. Both our "salvation" of southern Sicily and our destruction of northern Sicily were incidental. We simply wanted to get through Sicily so that we could attack the mainland.

Our invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with liberating Iraqis; it had to do with our need to establish our own military dominance. Our invasion of Afghanistan was all about our desire to obliterate the Taliban and we allied ourselves with warlords that are not very nice to gain tactical advantage. We did something similar in Afghanistan when we aliied ourselves with a man named Osama Bin Laden to help combat the Russians. What has happened to the people of both Iraq and Afghanistan along the way was incidental to our own objectives. Our complete failure to think about what would happen is the reason we are still fighting so many years later. A similar self interest has been at the heart or our prior invasions of other countries in the post WWII period as well as most of our foreign wars prior to WWII.

In the eyes of most of the world, the US is, on one had, an ideal for freedom and the rule of law that is envied. On the other hand, however, it is seen as only supporting those ideals for Americans. It shows little regard for the rights of other countries and is seen as a more dangerous threat than any other force because of its ability to interfere at will with little risk to itself. The reality is that none of us would welcome invasion from another country to save us from ourselves. Much of what we have done historically in our foreign policy "saves" people in the same way that south american indians were "saved" by the missionaries -- their souls may have made it, but their bodies did not.

By the way, for me, America remains my greatest country. But that doesn't mean we are necessarily a very good neighbor.

IowaBayDog
02-14-2009, 08:23 PM
the war was far from lost before US involvement. the battle of britan had been won and montgomery had driven Rommel back to Tunsia. The 6th army was beeing wiped out at Stalingrad thus reducing the germans of 25% of there overall army. The US never participated in a major european battle before 1943 and that was at the Kasserine Pass and we all now who won that battle. To maintain that WW2 was won primarily by the USA is just plain wrong at least in europe. We measure success by who does the fighting and very clearly the Soviets and there allies did the lions share. Many US veterans would be appalled to hear you disparage Americas many allies in the fight against Nazism


I didn't disparage the allies, you disparged my country's effort in bringing down tyranny in the world. I have spent time with MANY US veterans of WWII and I never heard 1 ever say, boy those French were real fighters, they did have plenty of comments about them and our other allies. Singing the praises of the Soviets is not something I ever heard in the halls of the VFW either. Your original contention was with the statement about the U.S. freeing people from tyranny, are you now trying to make us believe you think the Stalin led Soviet Union freed people from tyranny?

stoney
02-14-2009, 08:47 PM
Im not disparaging any countries efforts to defeat tyrannts or terrorists. I simply corrected the wild assertions from another post that tried to maintain that the US was responsible for freeing western europe x2. I meerly pointed out that the soviets were the dominate factor in WW2 and their victories indirectly contributed to the successful liberation in the west. We are all fully aware of the evil that Stalin inflicted on the eastern european block but it is hard to see how D Day could ever have been successful had the Soviets not tied down 120 of germanys best divisions on the eastern front

Patrick Johndrow
02-14-2009, 09:44 PM
the war was far from lost before US involvement. the battle of britan had been won and montgomery had driven Rommel back to Tunsia. The 6th army was beeing wiped out at Stalingrad thus reducing the germans of 25% of there overall army. The US never participated in a major european battle before 1943 and that was at the Kasserine Pass and we all now who won that battle. To maintain that WW2 was won primarily by the USA is just plain wrong at least in europe. We measure success by who does the fighting and very clearly the Soviets and there allies did the lions share. Many US veterans would be appalled to hear you disparage Americas many allies in the fight against Nazism


I retrospect we should have let the Germans have Europe...or should I say I wish we had let them have Europe.

Hew
02-15-2009, 06:47 AM
Lots of countries played important roles in WWII, but I think there's little doubt that without America, WWII would have resulted in the bulk of Europe speaking German and the bulk of Asia speaking Japanese, and millions more Jews, gypsies and "defectives" entirely exterminated from a few contintents. Even more important than America's military might (which was considerable) was her industrial might. American aid to the Soviet Union and other allies was substantial and a more-than-significant reason why the Allies prevailed.

subroc
02-15-2009, 07:12 AM
...The reality is that none of us would welcome invasion from another country to save us from ourselves...

This is probably true, but, I expect the Somali people would welcome an invasion to save themselves from themselves.

I also expect, world wide, they are not alone.

tpaschal30
02-15-2009, 08:49 PM
Im not disparaging any countries efforts to defeat tyrannts or terrorists. I simply corrected the wild assertions from another post that tried to maintain that the US was responsible for freeing western europe x2. I meerly pointed out that the soviets were the dominate factor in WW2 and their victories indirectly contributed to the successful liberation in the west. We are all fully aware of the evil that Stalin inflicted on the eastern european block but it is hard to see how D Day could ever have been successful had the Soviets not tied down 120 of germanys best divisions on the eastern front

In one way you maybe right. If we had not saved them in WW1, there would be no need to saved them in WW2.

kjrice
02-15-2009, 09:56 PM
Lots of countries played important roles in WWII, but I think there's little doubt that without America, WWII would have resulted in the bulk of Europe speaking German and the bulk of Asia speaking Japanese, and millions more Jews, gypsies and "defectives" entirely exterminated from a few contintents. Even more important than America's military might (which was considerable) was her industrial might. American aid to the Soviet Union and other allies was substantial and a more-than-significant reason why the Allies prevailed.
How dare you speak the facts!

Matt McKenzie
02-25-2009, 11:18 AM
I asked this question neither to stir the pot nor to start another Left vs. Right or Democrat vs. Republican thread. It just occurred to me that there are two groups in this country: those who believe that we live in the greatest country in the world and those who do not. I think it might be a sort of glass half empty/glass half full phenomenon. Or maybe a significant portion of our population has succumbed to an overwhelming onslaught of “blame America first” rhetoric that started in the 1960’s and has been gaining strength ever since.
Like all nations, the United States of America has had its good times and bad, times of prosperity and times of economic strife. As a country, we have been responsible for some of the greatest accomplishments as well as some of the gravest tragedies in the history of mankind. I use the term, “as a country” because our Republic is a government, “of the People, by the People and for the People”. The actions of our government are the responsibility of each of us as individuals. The accomplishments of our fellow citizens are the accomplishments of us all and we can and should share in the pride that results.
I have spent all of my adult life in service to my country because I believe that it is beyond all doubt the greatest country on Earth. While imperfect, the USA has provided more positive contributions to her own citizens and to the rest of the world than any other nation and possibly more than all other nations combined. The “glass half empty” crowd will be quick to point out our shortcomings and our mistakes. They will pick the nits to find the worst examples of domestic and foreign policy blunders to support the idea that we are somehow immoral, unethical or simply evil. Some will do this to reinforce their belief that one political party or another is out to destroy the world.
But I base my belief on what I have seen here in America and what I’ve seen in the sixty-some-odd countries that I’ve had the opportunity to visit. I believe that there is no other country on earth where an individual has more opportunity to improve his station in life through hard work and dedication. Each of us has a chance to succeed or fail based on our own efforts and abilities. Contrary to what the nay-sayers tell us, anyone can receive a quality education in this country. Anyone. Our economy is struggling right now, but still provides more opportunity for quality jobs and a higher standard of living than almost anywhere else in the world.
We are so rich as a nation that our poor people are fat! Many of those who live below the “poverty line” would be considered wealthy in over half the countries of the world. Our poor have cell phones and cable TV. Other countries have poor that would die of starvation if not for charity from American citizens. As individuals, we give more to charity than the citizens of any other country. Many times more.
We lead the world in technological advances in everything from military to medicine, from computers to cows. Space travel, global shipping, satellite communication, you name it, we perfect it. Are we the best at everything? Of course not. Just at most things.
Here we can select where we want to live, what we want to choose as a profession, how we want to raise and educate our children, what religion we want to follow, what political party we want to join and we take it for granted that these are rights that cannot be taken away. But I fear that there are those who are slowly and relentlessly chipping away at these liberties in the name of “fairness”. Many of them mean well and honestly believe that we can improve as a country by penalizing those who produce wealth in order to reward those who do not. I disagree with this concept and am afraid that we have passed the point of no return in our journey from a nation of individuals toward a collective society. There are numerous historical examples of the folly of this transition, but perhaps it is the natural order of things for a society to evolve from liberty to tyranny. Many believe that showing weakness to our enemies will make them treat us with respect. I disagree with this, as well.
But as of today, I still believe that the USA is the greatest nation on Earth. If that makes me an extreme right-wing, war-mongering ditto-head, so be it.