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View Full Version : Yo, Bob G. and folks in Motown.



Uncle Bill
03-03-2009, 06:01 PM
Here's an article from the DR and Mr. Bonner. I need your read on this, Bob, because you live in Raventown. And for the Motowners, Bonner has a remedy. UB

*** Want to save money? Sell your house. Move to Detroit. The median house in the Motor City sold for $7,500 in December. How about that, dear reader? You can buy a house for the same price as the Dow stocks. A little low on cash? Put it on your credit card.

Of course, then you've got to live in Detroit. The papers report that life in the city is so grim 1,000 people move out every month.

We've never been to Detroit. Out of curiosity, we offered to take Elizabeth for a romantic getaway to Detroit for her birthday. Our offer drew this reply:

"Are you out of your mind?"

Poor Detroit. No one goes to the city for a holiday. Not even students. As near as we can tell people only go there if they have to. And then, they get out as soon as they can.

We can imagine what it is like. We lived in the Baltimore ghetto for nearly 10 years. If you want to know what it is like, there's a TV show that chronicles life there - The Wire.

Was it disagreeable living in the inner city? No, it would have to undergo major improvements to be disagreeable. It was Hell. Drug dealers on the street corners. Trash in the alleys. Everybody with a pistol in his pants and a chip on his shoulder.

Elizabeth was once on the phone with her brother.

"What's that noise in the background?" he asked. "It sounds like popcorn popping."

"Oh, that's just someone shooting in the alley," Elizabeth replied. "I think they're trying to settle an argument."

We'd been there too long. Elizabeth hadn't even noticed the gunfire.

But it shows what government can do when it tries to fix a problem. In the case of Detroit and Baltimore, the government provided massive bailouts. Education standards collapsed...so the government provided money to the local education bureaucracy. Jobs disappeared (largely because people couldn't read or write)...so the government provided massive bailouts in many different bureaucracies - training centers, welfare, food stamps. Pretty soon, the only industry left was the welfare bureaucracy.

We don't know how it works now, but when we lived in the ghetto a girl's best career path was promiscuity. She got more money with each child she had...provided, of course, that the father didn't take responsibility for it. Then, the child grew up...took drugs and stole cars...until he got sent to prison. One problem led to another - but it could all be traced to the government's giveaways. They had the same effect in Baltimore as they had in Burkina Faso. The political elite took the money and lined their pockets...the masses become more miserable than before. And the worse conditions got, the more money the cities received from federal bailout programs.

Baltimore is still in business. But from what we read, Detroit sounds like it has become a kind of Port-au-Prince with snowdrifts. The whole city sounds like a hellhole without the warm fires.

And now Obama is proposing to make things worse. More bailouts...more giveaways...more programs...more bureaucrats... Already, the 'rich' support whole sections of the population. Obama says he will raise taxes on 'the rich,' creating even more parasites. Of course, who cares if the rich have less money? They will still live in their leafy suburbs and send their children to private schools. But pity the poor parasites.

Neither Mr. Obama nor none of the candidates for Mayor of Detroit (the last mayor is doing time in a federal penitentiary) has asked for our advice. We will give it anyway. Want to save Detroit? Here's how:

Abolish all welfare of all sorts...no unemployment insurance...no child tax credits...no welfare...no foodstamps...no nothing, except privately-sponsored charities. Close the public schools. Kick out all the bureaucrats and all federal and state employees. Abolish all rules concerning employment - no minimum wages, no overtime, discriminate all you want. Require all residents to say please and thank you...dress properly...and sneer at people who don't seem to be gainfully employed or polite. Declare the city an Open City and Free Trade Zone. In exchange for cutting all federal aid programs, eliminate federal and state taxes for people living in the city. Allow unlimited immigration into the city...giving all immigrants a U.S. passport after 5 years of residency. Levy a flat 10% tax to pay for basic services. Eliminate elections...have the city controlled by a town council composed of 10 citizens chosen at random.

Within five years, Detroit would be the most dynamic city in the nation.

Until tomorrow,

Bill Bonner
The Daily Reckoning

Bob Gutermuth
03-03-2009, 07:06 PM
I live in a small town 80 miles from Bawlmer. I own my home. If I sold it and moved to Motown the money I realize in profit would be eaten up in buying ammo and insurance and an alarm system.

Franco
03-03-2009, 07:45 PM
Neither Mr. Obama nor none of the candidates for Mayor of Detroit (the last mayor is doing time in a federal penitentiary) has asked for our advice. We will give it anyway. Want to save Detroit? Here's how:

Abolish all welfare of all sorts...no unemployment insurance...no child tax credits...no welfare...no foodstamps...no nothing, except privately-sponsored charities. Close the public schools. Kick out all the bureaucrats and all federal and state employees. Abolish all rules concerning employment - no minimum wages, no overtime, discriminate all you want. Require all residents to say please and thank you...dress properly...and sneer at people who don't seem to be gainfully employed or polite. Declare the city an Open City and Free Trade Zone. In exchange for cutting all federal aid programs, eliminate federal and state taxes for people living in the city. Allow unlimited immigration into the city...giving all immigrants a U.S. passport after 5 years of residency. Levy a flat 10% tax to pay for basic services. Eliminate elections...have the city controlled by a town council composed of 10 citizens chosen at random.

Within five years, Detroit would be the most dynamic city in the nation.

Until tomorrow,

Bill Bonner
The Daily Reckoning


Making these folks accountable for their actions would be labled racist and letting Congress and the President know they didn't have to spend any money would be crushing to them. I don't think they could kick the habit.

The plan makes sense to me and though Detroit is a great example, I'd like to see this implemented everywhere!

zeus3925
03-03-2009, 08:56 PM
I lived in Detroit i the 60's as it began its death spiral. It is disingenuous to say the Federal government is to blame. It is a complex story of southern state government perfidy in the 60's, failure of the Michigan state and local government to cope, failure of private and faith based initiatives to bring change, dirty dealings by realtors, and the dominance of organized crime. (Where are you now, Jimmy Hoffa?)

I could go into more detail but I am a slow and lousy typist with some carpal tunnel to boot. Maybe, more if I can get this voice control up.

Julie R.
03-04-2009, 09:12 AM
I'd be interested in how you can blame the epic failure that is Detroit on 'southern state government perfidy'?

badbullgator
03-04-2009, 09:18 AM
I'd be interested in how you can blame the epic failure that is Detroit on 'southern state government perfidy'?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/DaGriz/iagree.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10382341#)

http://www.floridasportsman.com/art/popcorn.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10382341#)

zeus3925
03-04-2009, 10:24 AM
Perfidy is the wrong term. Nefariousness better describes it.

in the 60's several of the states in the deep South began to write bus tickets and grub stakes to their welfare recipients to go to Detroit where "there were jobs in those auto plants." Sometimes these vouchers were accompanied by a warning that return to the home state would result in prosecution for fraud. Refusal would mean they would lose whatever benefits they had.

The car companies were flooded with applicants that lacked the basic skills to be easily trained. They put a requirement that all new hires had to have a High School diploma. Other industrial firms followed suit.

The result was that a lot of people ended up on menial jobs at minimum wage and unable to support their families. In the 60's Michigan required the woman of the household to be either divorced or legally separated in order to draw welfare. Wayne County had a task force called "the Midnight Riders" who were social workers who would do unannounced night time bed checks. Faced with the situation many men just abandoned their families. and the city became awash with fatherless kids. Frustration with the system led to the 67 riot. For more on this try these links:

http://www.67riots.rutgers.edu/d_index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Street_Riot

badbullgator
03-04-2009, 10:30 AM
in the 60's several of the states in the deep South began to write bus tickets and grub stakes to their welfare recipients to go to Detroit where "there were jobs in those auto plants." Sometimes these vouchers were accompanied by a warning that return to the home state would result in prosecution for fraud. Refusal would mean they would loose whatever benefits they had.

The car companies were flooded with applicants that lacked the basic skills to be easily trained. They put a requirement that all new hires had to have a High School diploma. Other industrial firms followed suit.

The result was that a lot of people ended up on menial jobs at minimum wage and unable to support their families. In the 60's Michigan required the woman of the household to be either divorced or legally separated in order to draw welfare. Wayne County had a task force called "the Midnight Riders" who were social workers who would do unannounced night time bed checks. Faced with the situation many men just abandoned their families. and the city became awash with fatherless kids. Frustration with the system led to the 67 riot. For more on this try these links:

http://www.67riots.rutgers.edu/d_index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Street_Riot

http://floridasportsman.com/art/roflmao.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10391382#)http://floridasportsman.com/art/roflmao.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10391382#)http://floridasportsman.com/art/roflmao.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10391382#)
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Thanks I needed a good laugh....on the other hand IF that was even remotely a possibility I would still get a kick out of sticking it to the yankees....
BTW- woring for a drug treatment program for years I can tell you the bus thing does in fact happen, BUT the bus runs both ways. They send em down here and we send em back. Been there done that and seen it happen

Franco
03-04-2009, 10:36 AM
in the 60's several of the states in the deep South began to write bus tickets and grub stakes to their welfare recipients to go to Detroit where "there were jobs in those auto plants." Sometimes these vouchers were accompanied by a warning that return to the home state would result in prosecution for fraud. Refusal would mean they would loose whatever benefits they had.

The car companies were flooded with applicants that lacked the basic skills to be easily trained. They put a requirement that all new hires had to have a High School diploma. Other industrial firms followed suit.

The result was that a lot of people ended up on menial jobs at minimum wage and unable to support their families. In the 60's Michigan required the woman of the household to be either divorced or legally separated in order to draw welfare. Wayne County had a task force called "the Midnight Riders" who were social workers who would do unannounced night time bed checks. Faced with the situation many men just abandoned their families. and the city became awash with fatherless kids. Frustration with the system led to the 67 riot. For more on this try these links:

http://www.67riots.rutgers.edu/d_index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Street_Riot

I doubt this has anything to do with Detroit's plight. The situation of fatherless/unmarried mothers with many children by different fathers is common from Los Angeles to New York and from Chicago to Miami!

It is a result of Federal Welfare incentives for the poor to produce more children and get paid to do nothing! The Govenment's policies has grown proverty, not shrunk it. The Dems like having people dependent on Federal handouts as it helps to keep them in power.

zeus3925
03-04-2009, 10:47 AM
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Thanks I needed a good laugh....on the other hand IF that was even remotely a possibility I would still get a kick out of sticking it to the yankees....
BTW- woring for a drug treatment program for years I can tell you the bus thing does in fact happen, BUT the bus runs both ways. They send em down here and we send em back. Been there done that and seen it happen

Yep, I've seen the two way bus, too. Wrote a few of those tickets myself.

zeus3925
03-04-2009, 11:51 AM
I doubt this has anything to do with Detroit's plight. The situation of fatherless/unmarried mothers with many children by different fathers is common from Los Angeles to New York and from Chicago to Miami!



It is a result of Federal Welfare incentives for the poor to produce more children and get paid to do nothing! The Govenment's policies has grown proverty, not shrunk it. The Dems like having people dependent on Federal handouts as it helps to keep them in power.

As far as the cities you cite, none of them would I consider as a place to live. They all differ from Detroit only in the diversity of the local economy.

That's half true. The intent is to support children in poverty. There is an encouragement to engage in family planning. But no one wants the government to forcefully tie them down to a gurney and get the left gonad removed.

Certainly, there are things the system does to lock in recipients. The reforms passed when Clinton was president with republican support has done a lot to reduce long termers. Life time limits have worked well in that regard.

One of the things that really works in getting people of the dole is an aggressive program to train people in getting job finding skills. I am not talking trade or college education. But how to dress, how to write a resume, how to present yourself. Sign up before you see the financial worker. Doesn't matter how many kids you have at home. Show up everyday at the job center for four hours until you get a job. If I had it my way i'd make it 8 hrs.

In Detroit's case, the only thing that seems to have any effect is a aggressive law enforcement. But that ping- pongs back and force as people raise hob about taxes an budgets.

In the 60's Johaness Spreen, Chief of Police, put out a team of officers disguised as drunks, women and old ladies. When these guys were jumped the officer and his backup attempted to make an arrest. Enough of the criminals fled the officers and were shot. The crime rate plummeted during the program. Then a 14 year old kid was shot in the back one night. The courts ordered a halt to the program.

Uncle Bill
03-04-2009, 12:36 PM
As far as the cities you cite, none of them would I consider as a place to live. They all differ from Detroit only in the diversity of the local economy.






As Cory mentioned, you really are entertaining. So you opted for a spot in the peoples republic of Minnesoooooota...that voted in an ex pugalist for their governor...and are in the process of voting in an EX...and I do mean EX comedian socialist for a senator. Yep, you made the correct choice. Does the "frying-pan-into-the-fire" phrase ring a bell with you?

UB

Richard Halstead
03-04-2009, 12:51 PM
As Cory mentioned, you really are entertaining. So you opted for a spot in the peoples republic of Minnesoooooota...that voted in an ex pugalist for their governor...and are in the process of voting in an EX...and I do mean EX comedian socialist for a senator. Yep, you made the correct choice. Does the "frying-pan-into-the-fire" phrase ring a bell with you?

UB

We had the choice of the Comedian, the icumbent who made his lifes work going on every fact finging trip, and an also ran. The recount battle went for months and Coleman won the first recount. Franken won another and the Dems had a court order declaring Franken the winner. I don't think they even counted the absentee ballotts.

zeus3925
03-04-2009, 12:51 PM
As Cory mentioned, you really are entertaining. So you opted for a spot in the peoples republic of Minnesoooooota...that voted in an ex pugalist for their governor...and are in the process of voting in an EX...and I do mean EX comedian socialist for a senator. Yep, you made the correct choice. Does the "frying-pan-into-the-fire" phrase ring a bell with you?

UB

Not responsible for those clowns. I voted for one of the lawyers not the rassler. I don't vote for professional funny men, either. As the for the Peoples Republic of Minnesota, LOVE it here.

Richard Halstead
03-04-2009, 01:02 PM
Not responsible for those clowns. I voted for one of the lawyers not the rassler. I don't vote for professional funny men, either. As the for the Peoples Republic of Minnesota, LOVE it here.


I shouldn't have used Comedian. He was more like the "Carpet Baggers" that invaded the south after the Civil War. Franken wasn't a resident but became one when he learned of trying to beat out the Republican for his senate seat.

zeus3925
03-04-2009, 04:03 PM
I shouldn't have used Comedian. He was more like the "Carpet Baggers" that invaded the south after the Civil War. Franken wasn't a resident but became one when he learned of trying to beat out the Republican for his senate seat.

Both of them could have stayed in New York if you ask me.

As carpet baggers go, ex- Gov. Arne Carlson wasn't too bad for a republican. Now that he is not running for any thing he is sure telling the GOP hard asses where the bear goes through the buck wheat.

Say "Hi" to Dooley for me.