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Keith Farmer
04-06-2009, 09:30 AM
How about this...you draw the conclusions (video link):

http://www.freedomslighthouse.com/2009/04/president-obama-bows-to-king-abdullah.html


http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p193/odawgs/ObamaBowstoKingAbdulla.jpg

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 04:35 PM
Have you traveled much? My conclusion would be that President Obama is just being polite.
I would bow to people in Japan just as courtesy. In America we shake hands, in France they kiss on both cheeks and sometimes one more just cause they like you! In Italy they hug and kiss!
Could it be just a custom and not subseverant?

kjrice
04-06-2009, 04:38 PM
Have you traveled much? My conclusion would be that President Obama is just being polite.
I would bow to people in Japan just as courtesy. In America we shake hands, in France they kiss on both cheeks and sometimes one more just cause they like you! In Italy they hug and kiss!
Could it be just a custom and not subseverant?
And as Americans we shake even with a sheik.

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 04:42 PM
I wonder if they traded aloha of high fives?

Franco
04-06-2009, 04:46 PM
The President Of The United States should bow to no man!

The Saudis are the biggest financial contributors to Islamic terrorist. This is shameful at the least.

Goose
04-06-2009, 04:51 PM
Heard someone today say..."at least we know he can't make another speech because from this position he can't see his teleprompter!"

Maybe he just dropped a contact lens.

Keith Farmer
04-06-2009, 05:06 PM
Have you traveled much? My conclusion would be that President Obama is just being polite.


I have and I say you are wrong.

Our veterans fought and died to allow us freedom from ever bowing to a tyrant dictator again. Further, it is NOT proper protocol for a world leader to bow to the king...more over, Obama was the only person that did so...look at the video. Bowing is a gesture of subserveance by an underling of the king...not an action to be demonstrated by the man who is supposed to be the most powerful man in the free world!

In my opinion Obama is not doing these things (bowing to a terrorist funding foreign royalty, calling America of old "arrogant", saying that we are not and will never be at war with Islam, etc) out of ignorance. It is my guess that he is trying very hard to establish his disgust with the America of the past in order to win over these thugs for his future gain. The ends, he thinks, will justify his means for now.

This is perhaps the most embarrasing moment a U.S. President has ever been involved in...what an utterly disgusting gesture by our leader.

Hew
04-06-2009, 05:37 PM
The Obama admin should either a) fire their current staff that oversees official protocol or b) actually listen to what that staff tries to tell them.

From shaking the hand of the Marine at the steps of Marine One to giving DVDs as a gift to the PM of our staunchest ally to giving an IPOD to the Queen of England to Michelle Obama putting her arm around the Queen to now bowing to some Saudi "royal"....a collection of avoidable and silly gaffes.

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 05:43 PM
Was this the same sheik that Bush was holding hands with?

kjrice
04-06-2009, 05:47 PM
I wonder if they traded aloha of high fives?
Typical apples to oranges liberal hodge podge.

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 05:52 PM
I have and I say you are wrong.

Our veterans fought and died to allow us freedom from ever bowing to a tyrant dictator again. Further, it is NOT proper protocol for a world leader to bow to the king...more over, Obama was the only person that did so...look at the video. Bowing is a gesture of subserveance by an underling of the king...not an action to be demonstrated by the man who is supposed to be the most powerful man in the free world!

In my opinion Obama is not doing these things (bowing to a terrorist funding foreign royalty, calling America of old "arrogant", saying that we are not and will never be at war with Islam, etc) out of ignorance. It is my guess that he is trying very hard to establish his disgust with the America of the past in order to win over these thugs for his future gain. The ends, he thinks, will justify his means for now.

This is perhaps the most embarrasing moment a U.S. President has ever been involved in...what an utterly disgusting gesture by our leader.

I am sure that you are probably an expert on foreign diplomacy. But what I don't understand is how you can tell what Obama thinks. You must also be clairvoiant. Well good for you. Would you be able to give me any stock tips or perhaps the wining lottery numbers? Is this shiek the same guy the Bushes visited in Saudi Arabia and have had such close ties with in the past and present? So did Bush hold his hand or was it a kiss on the lips? That kind of grossed me out!

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 06:05 PM
The President Of The United States should bow to no man!

The Saudis are the biggest financial contributors to Islamic terrorist. This is shameful at the least.

They were the bigest investors to the family of George Bush!

Franco
04-06-2009, 06:10 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,322467,00.html

There was no holding of hands or smooching going on. Pres. Bush was there to close the deal on 20billion worth of aircraft and asking the Saudis to pump more oil. See story above.

The Saudis hate Americans and Americans may not walk thier streets. Bush was never naive enough to think otherwise.

I saw that picture of Obomo bowing earlier and I am still outraged. Most Americans won't realized just how dangerous this curent administration is until it may be too late.

Franco
04-06-2009, 06:14 PM
They were the bigest investors to the family of George Bush!



Explain.

Do not confuse the Saudis buying our protection with the Bushes' will for protecting our citizens.

So, you think it is OK for the President to bow to a foreign King?

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 06:25 PM
Yes. I think bowing is ok. But I draw the line at holding his hand like Bush did. And kissing the guy still grosses me out. But customs are different in different countries.
Please tell me what makes you an expert on protocol?

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 06:30 PM
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushabdullahhands.htm

Is this the same Shiek?

Franco
04-06-2009, 06:52 PM
Yes. I think bowing is ok.



Are you famliar with how the Saudis treat their women?

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 06:59 PM
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushabdullah.htm

Bush kissing Saudi Prince.........

What are the options? Bow or Kiss. I'd rather bow. That's just me!:)

Franco
04-06-2009, 07:04 PM
I see you have never heard of photoshop. Besides, those are harly what I would consider as credible websites.

Bowing is a jesture of being subserviant.

Rosemary Westling
04-06-2009, 07:18 PM
Come on Mr. Booty. The photo of Bush kissing Saudi Prince was all over the news including Fox. What would you do Kiss him or Bow?

I'm pretty sure some there are a lot of countries that treat their women badly.

Glad to be born in America.

Franco
04-06-2009, 07:33 PM
What would you do Kiss him or Bow?



I would do neither.

If Bush did in fact give him a kiss, shame on him and as an Independent, I should know better than trying to defend Bush. What Oboma did was wrong and only sends a signal of our weakness. This whole G20 trip was unproductive and was more about "fashion" than issues. Obomo went over there and instead of trying to tackle the tough issues, he did nothing but bad mouth Bush.

We need a leader, not someone that wants to be liked, a news headline seeker and wanting to show off their European designer clothing.

Keith Farmer
04-06-2009, 07:40 PM
I am sure that you are probably an expert on foreign diplomacy. But what I don't understand is how you can tell what Obama thinks. You must also be clairvoiant.


I don't know who you are...and that is probably a wonderful arrangement, but I'll try anyway to communicate with someone whom I think is probably approaching this topic from a very different world view:

1)- Anyone can access proper protocol for our President while representing us... it is not rocket science. Further, past performances dictate proper protocol and no American in power has bowed to foreign royalty...except now!

2) How can I "tell" what he is thinking??...follow the rat trail (you know, a rat leaves a scent trail...that is how a snake finds him and devours him). Obama is so transparent (to anyone who cares to even glance at the truth) that his actions speak volumes about what his intent is. I could go on and on about where he will eventually take us but you won't understand it...you'll just keep on scoffing at the truth...and that is what is at stake here...so I'll leave it alone.

3) Clairvoyance deals with sorcery. Funny you bring that up since one of the scathing charges against sinful mankind from a sovereign Lord (Jehovah God) is that all nations will be deceived by sorcery. Read and tell me if this applies to a possible future for America:

Revelation 18:23 (New King James Version)

23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.

So no, I am not clairvoyant...just observant.

Bob Gutermuth
04-06-2009, 08:09 PM
Just as our Flag dips to no earthly king, the 'leader' of the free world should bow to NOBODY.

Martin
04-07-2009, 08:15 AM
I will Bow to Jesus..and my wife occasionaly, when I want extra time in the woods...lol. I will shake hands with someone who is an authority over me and say yes mam and no sir. But I will bow to no one, An earthly man that is.


The POTUS is either....I just don't have the words.

Pete
04-07-2009, 08:23 AM
I am sure that you are probably an expert on foreign diplomacy. But what I don't understand is how you can tell what Obama thinks. You must also be clairvoiant.

It is one of the simplest things to do. Haven't you figured out yet that ,,,,out of the mouth reveals the treasures of the heart of a man or woman,


Pete

road kill
04-07-2009, 08:35 AM
I am sure that you are probably an expert on foreign diplomacy. But what I don't understand is how you can tell what Obama thinks. You must also be clairvoiant. Well good for you. Would you be able to give me any stock tips or perhaps the wining lottery numbers? Is this shiek the same guy the Bushes visited in Saudi Arabia and have had such close ties with in the past and present? So did Bush hold his hand or was it a kiss on the lips? That kind of grossed me out!

I do not think you need to be clairvoyant to know what this guy stands for.

If you did, then if you voted for him, by your own standard, you must be clairevoyant!!

Just sayin'.......

Julie R.
04-07-2009, 11:41 AM
Have you traveled much? My conclusion would be that President Obama is just being polite.
I would bow to people in Japan just as courtesy. In America we shake hands, in France they kiss on both cheeks and sometimes one more just cause they like you! In Italy they hug and kiss!
Could it be just a custom and not subseverant?

Compared to some I haven't traveled much, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn express. I also worked at the U.S. Dept. of State for 5 years, first as civil service and then I took and passed the FSO exam. One duty during my employment was making foreign arrangements for Congressional delegations travelling overseas and in that capacity I worked extensively with the Office of Protocol. I also got to know most of the staff in that office pretty well. You had better believe our U.S. Dept. of State knows down to the most miniscule nuance what is and isn't appropriate behavior for every single country we have diplomatic relations with; that every single member of Obomo's staff that traveled with him had been briefed extensively; and that both Obomos were briefed as well. It's not a question of 'he didn't know better' but another example of his monumental arrogance and casual disregard of the duties that go with the office of POTUS.

So yes, inappropriately kow towing to certain foreign leaders was subservient and disgusting, much as his "Aw shucks" attempt along with his wife, to get clubby with the Queen. SHe may have smiled in public but I bet she was reeling with disgust.

Bob Gutermuth
04-07-2009, 01:09 PM
I use the ignore button on here now more than ever, I just with Comrade Obama came with one.

kjrice
04-07-2009, 05:53 PM
Compared to some I haven't traveled much, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn express. I also worked at the U.S. Dept. of State for 5 years, first as civil service and then I took and passed the FSO exam. One duty during my employment was making foreign arrangements for Congressional delegations travelling overseas and in that capacity I worked extensively with the Office of Protocol. I also got to know most of the staff in that office pretty well. You had better believe our U.S. Dept. of State knows down to the most miniscule nuance what is and isn't appropriate behavior for every single country we have diplomatic relations with; that every single member of Obomo's staff that traveled with him had been briefed extensively; and that both Obomos were briefed as well. It's not a question of 'he didn't know better' but another example of his monumental arrogance and casual disregard of the duties that go with the office of POTUS.

So yes, inappropriately kow towing to certain foreign leaders was subservient and disgusting, much as his "Aw shucks" attempt along with his wife, to get clubby with the Queen. SHe may have smiled in public but I bet she was reeling with disgust.
That's going to leave a mark!

badbullgator
04-08-2009, 06:59 AM
Compared to some I haven't traveled much, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn express. I also worked at the U.S. Dept. of State for 5 years, first as civil service and then I took and passed the FSO exam. One duty during my employment was making foreign arrangements for Congressional delegations travelling overseas and in that capacity I worked extensively with the Office of Protocol. I also got to know most of the staff in that office pretty well. You had better believe our U.S. Dept. of State knows down to the most miniscule nuance what is and isn't appropriate behavior for every single country we have diplomatic relations with; that every single member of Obomo's staff that traveled with him had been briefed extensively; and that both Obomos were briefed as well. It's not a question of 'he didn't know better' but another example of his monumental arrogance and casual disregard of the duties that go with the office of POTUS.

So yes, inappropriately kow towing to certain foreign leaders was subservient and disgusting, much as his "Aw shucks" attempt along with his wife, to get clubby with the Queen. SHe may have smiled in public but I bet she was reeling with disgust.


http://floridasportsman.com/art/dooh.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10534031#)
What say you now rosemary http://floridasportsman.com/art/dupe.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10534031#)

Henry V
04-08-2009, 07:28 PM
........... You had better believe our U.S. Dept. of State knows down to the most miniscule nuance what is and isn't appropriate behavior for every single country we have diplomatic relations with; ............ It's not a question of 'he didn't know better' but another example of his monumental arrogance and casual disregard of the duties that go with the office of POTUS.......

Very interesting to see how concerned most of you folks are with whether the president bowed to the Saudi ruler. Entertaining stuff.

Speaking of piling on, in your experience Julie and others, what do you think these pictures did to our diplomatic relations a few years ago and were you folks just as concerned then about this breach of protocol and whether the reaction of the administration then was a sign of arrogance????
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/AbuGhraibAbuse-standing-on-box.jpg/140px-AbuGhraibAbuse-standing-on-box.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Abu_Ghraib_53.jpg/140px-Abu_Ghraib_53.jpg
Similarly, Hew posted:
The Obama admin should either a) fire their current staff that oversees official protocol or b) actually listen to what that staff tries to tell them. Did you think these types of standards applied then too?

Go ahead and chalk this up to "apples and oranges" from a "liberal" if you like, but in all seriousness which of these events do you think has the more serious short and long-term consequences for this country? What the heck, let's throw the IPod gift in the mix just to make the answer more difficult.

Keith Farmer
04-08-2009, 07:41 PM
Henry,

Why is it that you liberals cannot stay on topic?

The Obama fiasco overseas is about our leader disgracing the entire country...our men and women in uniform, the past fallen heroes who died for the freedom from tyranny, the future generations of young men and women who desperately need a strong leader not a mamby-pamby apologist.

The pictures you showed are disgraceful. However, the president of the U.S. did not do that...some rogue immature individuals did...no where near the same.

If you want to discuss the merits/problems with Obama's actions then that would be cool. Otherwise this is like arguing with a child...pointless!

Henry V
04-08-2009, 08:10 PM
Keith,
As you point out,

........The Obama fiasco overseas is about our leader disgracing the entire ountry...our men and women in uniform, the past fallen heroes who died for the freedom from tyranny, the future generations of young men and women who desperately need a strong leader not a mamby-pamby apologist.......

Please note that there are four pages of discussion about the "bow" of President Obama calling the act disgraceful and beneath the President of the U.S and this nation.
Maybe its just childish me, but I see a direct tie in between my post and previous posts. There is even more of a tie-in given your quote above. In fact, I find it quite ironic that many of the folks that filled up four pages bashing this small act by President Obama are the same ones that continue to discount acts of torture that occurred under the previous administration and commander-in-chief. I was just trying to point out the irony and asked folks some questions.

I'll let you keep this thread on line now so you can deal with the current "fiasco overseas".

Next time, I will just start a new thread titled "so a bow is a big overseas fiasco worth four pages of discussion, what did you all think about Abu Ghraib and torture?", but then again why even do that when you can just compare the responses to this current thread to the responses on a thread like this one http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33949& and it will become clear that a bow is much worse for this country than torture in the view of the majority of folks here.

Franco
04-08-2009, 09:59 PM
In fact, I find it quite ironic that many of the folks that filled up four pages bashing this small act by President Obama are the same ones that continue to discount acts of torture that occurred under the previous to this current thread to the responses on a thread like this one http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33949& and it will become clear that a bow is much worse for this country than torture in the view of the majority of folks here.


If Obomo's bowing to the Saudi king isn't so bad in your opinion, then why are Obomo's people trying to cover it up by saying that he didn't really bow. I guess a big bend over below the shoulders isn't a bow? He bowed and not man enough to admit his mistake.

I guess in your book it is OK to kill innocent people with human bombs, decapitate humans, shoot unarmed civilians but heaven forbid we use waterboarding to get information that might save lives! I'm all for waterboarding when used to protect the lives of our citizens and I'll never be apologetic about it. But hey, we don't have to worry about that because Obomo has already defanged our intelligence gathering agencies and now he is going to finance his social agenda by making major cuts to our military spending.

Just which side are you on anyway?

Richard Halstead
04-08-2009, 10:49 PM
Barack won't need to worry about a protestor throwing shoes at him, the biggest danger is getting kicked in the chin when he miss times the attempt to kiss their feet.

Julie R.
04-08-2009, 10:49 PM
Keith,
As you point out,

Please note that there are four pages of discussion about the "bow" of President Obama calling the act disgraceful and beneath the President of the U.S and this nation.
Maybe its just childish me, but I see a direct tie in between my post and previous posts. There is even more of a tie-in given your quote above. In fact, I find it quite ironic that many of the folks that filled up four pages bashing this small act by President Obama are the same ones that continue to discount acts of torture that occurred under the previous administration and commander-in-chief. I was just trying to point out the irony and asked folks some questions.



Henry,
someone already asked you whose side are you on? and I have to admit this post makes me wonder. Are you SERIOUS?
How about you post up which you think is worse, those photos you posted, or Islamic fundamentalists dragging charred corpses of U.S. servicemen down the streets while chanting "Death to America!" to cheering crowds?

What do you think of Islamic terrorist thugs that behead their U.S. captives and video it so they can flash them all over any news network that will air them? I'm tired of being PC and calling them Islamic whatevers, because people like YOU are more interested in not hurting their feelings when most of them despise us and want to kill us. So what if some low level enlisted men and women mock and humiliate a few muzzie thugs in prison, it's not behavior to applaud or discourage but it is NOTHING compared to what those terrorist thugs do to any American they capture, whether military or civilian.

Click on this link and scroll to photo no. 7 (warning--it's upsetting) and then come back and tell me how awful you think we are in this country. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16532830/displaymode/1107/s/2/

In fact I think the liberal and media fascination with the Abu Graib incident is disgusting. Sorry behavior for sure, but best handled internally, not in front page headlines and news reports by the court of public opinion. In fact I'd wager that you, like most of your judgmental liberal colleagues, have never endangered a hair on your head defending your country.

And by the same token, you cannot possibly compare a handful of low level military personnel to the President of the United States of America and why would you even want to? He looked like a buffoon and his behavior was more in line than what you might expect of an 18 year old enlisted soldier, not the leader of a (once) powerful country.

Henry V
04-09-2009, 12:38 AM
Wow, I expected to be called a bush hater (which is also terribly ironic around here because none of us to the left of the extreme righties here are calling anyone an "obama hater" despite the level of conversation every day), but my patriotism questioned, no.

I happen to be one of majority of Americans, like John McCain, who think the fact that this nation's leaders stooped to the level of torture was a terrible mistake with long-term consequences for this country that outweigh any presumed benefits (for poll data see January 2009 ABC poll results summarized at http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2009/01/on_torture.html or elsewhere like here which I am sure you will enjoy http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i10abcnews.htm). The past administration condoned torture and did not take serious action when it was revealed at Abu Ghraib. Was Rumsfeld fired, no. Any military leaders? Where was all that Republican responsibility and accountability that I keep hearing about here? Oh wait, I know, its in the same place as the fiscal responsibility that always gets talked about. The fact is that the torture and Abu Ghraib incidents were the best recruiting tools that Al Qaeda could have ever hoped for.

Nice attempt by Booty and Julie to suggest that because I pointed out an inconsistency here that I am anti-American or would condone any heinous act against Americans. Sorry, you are wrong and entirely miss the point of my posts. Nice way to try and polarize the discussion though.

Perhaps you don't see the irony/inconsistency/hypocrisy here. That's all I was trying to point out. From what you have written you clearly think that a "bow" is an embarrassment for this country and just more proof that President Obama is not up to the job. At the same time you have also written that torture was OK and even seem proud of it at times. For the record, I see a "bow" as a simple mistake at best with no long term consequence while I see the torture that was condoned by the last administration including the President as a serious error in judgment that is beneath this country even given the despicable acts of some of our enemies. Clearly, we do not see this the same way.

Now for a couple point by point responses.

I guess in your book it is OK to kill innocent people with human bombs, decapitate humans, shoot unarmed civilians but heaven forbid we use waterboarding to get information that might save lives! I'm all for waterboarding when used to protect the lives of our citizens and I'll never be apologetic about it. But hey, we don't have to worry about that because Obomo has already defanged our intelligence gathering agencies and now he is going to finance his social agenda by making major cuts to our military spending.
First, exactly how do make the jump from me saying that torture was a bad idea to me thinking its OK to kill innocent people?. Glad you think torture saves lives. The facts do not support your point of view. Exactly how has Obama defanged our intelligence?


....., because people like YOU are more interested in not hurting any feelings when most of them despise us and want to kill us. So what if some low level enlisted men and women mock and humiliate a few muzzie thugs in prison, it's not behavior to applaud or discourage but it is NOTHING compared to what those terrorist thugs do to any American they capture, whether military or civilian. First, exactly who do you mean by "them" that despise us? It's not at all that I am worried about hurting anyone's feelings. I just do not think it is a good idea make more enemies and recruit more terrorists when there are known alternatives to torture that are just as effective at getting information without the risks.
So what? See above and read the reports related to this. It was a great recruiting tool for Al Qaeda that was not taken seriously by the last administration. You can overlook the facts all you want.


In fact I'd wager that you, like most of your judgmental liberal colleagues, have never endangered a hair on your head defending your country.
Calling ME judgmental is quite funny given the way you phrased the quote above. For that matter, a reference to me or anyone else that questions conservatives here as being "judgmental" is really really funny. Perhaps you should notice that many if not most of the posts on this forum are entirely "judgmental" statements by right wingers about "democrats" or "liberals". Maybe you have just missed this.

On the second point, neither did W or Cheney, did they?. Can we only have an opinion on this topic if we did? Sorry, I did not see the rules.


Click on this link and scroll to photo no. 7 (warning--it's upsetting) and then come back and tell me how awful you think we are in this country.
Could you please point out where I ever said how awful anyone is in this country? Keep jumping to conclusions about my point of view to feel comfortable about your point of view if you need to. You can also keep that revenge mindset to justify torture too.

I am sorry to have interrupt this enlightening thread, I'll just go away again and come back in a few weeks to see all the progress made on this great vacuum chamber of right wing chatter where Jeff and a handful of others periodically bring in facts and thoughtful posts that effectively kill the discussion.

Rosemary Westling
04-09-2009, 06:58 AM
What say you now rosemary?QUOTE]

As you know BBG people can make up anything and put it on the internet. Could this be the difinitive answer to "Bow or not to Bow?'

I just wonder if a person posts a picture of a black man in ladies underwear if that source would be reliable for Presidential Protocol? Just wondering. Maybe maybe not. I would need verification from another source.

Warmest Regards, rm

JDogger
04-09-2009, 11:41 AM
Check this picture of Bush.

Some say it's not a bow, but a bendover to recieve a medal.

And maybe Obama didn't bow either...maybe he was ducking in case someone threw a shoe.

Or maybe it is a sign of respect and should not be taken out of context. To afford someone the courtesies of their own culture when you are a guest in their country is admirable.

Cody Covey
04-09-2009, 01:12 PM
so bush LEANING to get a medal is the same as obama bowing all the way to the dudes waist...my president should bow to no one. Also if you want proof look at the video...its a bow

badbullgator
04-09-2009, 01:49 PM
INteresting that all the libs here always see anything posted as being "made up" and have to check other sources http://floridasportsman.com/art/rolleyes.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)

OR

They throw a red herring into the mix and pull up things that happened in the past administration http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/DaGriz/horse.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)

Seldom do you read one that will driectly answer a post and NEVER will you find one who agrees with ANYTHING posted by "the other side" http://floridasportsman.com/art/why.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)

Oh and of course you have rosemary who even though as white as white gets LOVES to play the race card.......http://floridasportsman.com/art/nopity.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)

YardleyLabs
04-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Tempest in a teapot.....

http://k43.pbase.com/o2/36/275736/1/52088312.IMG_3829b.jpg

I thought it was a silly gaffe that lasted about a second and has done nothing to undermine what seems to have been a relatively successful trip. I'd rate it as somewhat less important than the gifts given to the Prime Minister.

Julie R.
04-09-2009, 03:02 PM
I thought it was a silly gaffe that lasted about a second and has done nothing to undermine what seems to have been a relatively successful trip. I'd rate it as somewhat less important than the gifts given to the Prime Minister.

But admit it Jeff, no matter how much you like Obomo even you have to admit the disregard of protocol and the tacky CDs were kind of boorish.

badbullgator
04-09-2009, 03:06 PM
I thought it was a silly gaffe that lasted about a second and has done nothing to undermine what seems to have been a relatively successful trip. I'd rate it as somewhat less important than the gifts given to the Prime Minister.


So you are in favor of him apologizing for all our “evils”?

YardleyLabs
04-09-2009, 03:11 PM
But admit it Jeff, no matter how much you like Obomo even you have to admit the disregard of protocol and the tacky CDs were kind of boorish.
Yes. Unfortunately, the DVDs are part of a long history of tacky gifts that try to provide a taste of Americana served with a hint of technology. Let the Queen buy her own iPod. The President should be giving gifts of American art -- possibly produced by unknown photographers who are supporters?:D Of course, either type of gift beats mounted Buffalo heads....

YardleyLabs
04-09-2009, 03:15 PM
So you are in favor of him apologizing for all our “evils”?

We certainly owe some to a variety of people. The only one I can think of in Iran -- and it's a biggie -- was our role in overthrowing their first democratically elected government and replacing it with the Shah and his secret service spies. That one sits in Eisenhower's lap. They owe a few more to us and the rest of the world.

Keith Farmer
04-09-2009, 03:39 PM
relatively successful trip.


Did you know that Hussein actually took along people just so he could play "pick up basketball"? I posted earlier that he was taking 500 people on the trip...appears it was more than 700 making the total more than 500 over NORMAL presidential travel...talk about success boy was it ever!

Hew
04-09-2009, 04:03 PM
We certainly owe some to a variety of people. The only one I can think of in Iran -- and it's a biggie -- was our role in overthrowing their first democratically elected government and replacing it with the Shah and his secret service spies. That one sits in Eisenhower's lap. They owe a few more to us and the rest of the world.
As I recall, at the time we backed installing the Shah, Iran was a giant cluster-you-know-what of dissent and unrest from all sides of the political dial. The communists, backed by the USSR, were also actively working to topple the govt. and insert their own stooge. We beat them to the punch. Had we not, it is likely that the USSR would have had a very friendly govt. controlling oil and providing them access to much-craved warm water ports; quite likely changing the face of the Middle East and the Cold War. Realpolitik isn't very pretty; further evidenced by the fact that three of the four Shah kids landed quite cushily on Ivy League campuses after their father's fall from grace. ;-)

BTW, I don't know why Barrack needed to apologize to Iran. Madeline Albright already did that for him back during Clinton's presidency.

Bob Gutermuth
04-09-2009, 04:14 PM
The mistake wasn't Ikes, it was Carters. Shah Reza Palavi belonged on the throne of Iran. Peanuthead helped displace him and what did we get? Ayatollah Cockamamie(SP) who destabilized the whole region and sponsored terrorism.

brlcon1
04-09-2009, 04:28 PM
Did you know that Hussein actually took along people just so he could play "pick up basketball"? I posted earlier that he was taking 500 people on the trip...appears it was more than 700 making the total more than 500 over NORMAL presidential travel...talk about success boy was it ever!

Now thats an impressive Possy !

Marvin S
04-09-2009, 05:33 PM
INteresting that all the libs here always see anything posted as being "made up" and have to check other sources http://floridasportsman.com/art/rolleyes.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)

OR

They throw a red herring into the mix and pull up things that happened in the past administration http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/DaGriz/horse.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)

Seldom do you read one that will driectly answer a post and NEVER will you find one who agrees with ANYTHING posted by "the other side" http://floridasportsman.com/art/why.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)

Oh and of course you have rosemary who even though as white as white gets LOVES to play the race card.......http://floridasportsman.com/art/nopity.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)

;-) - & to add another - rarely do they post anything that came from original thought. :rolleyes:

JDogger
04-09-2009, 06:08 PM
They throw a red herring into the mix and pull up things that happened in the past administration



You mean like the continual warbling some do about Clinton.



Seldom do you read one that will driectly answer a post and NEVER will you find one who agrees with ANYTHING posted by "the other side" http://floridasportsman.com/art/why.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10540178#)



Well it cuts both ways Batman....I'll agree to that

badbullgator
04-10-2009, 07:47 AM
You mean like the continual warbling some do about Clinton.


Holy crap, are you kidding? You are kidding right? that is the second go to for you guys when blaming Bush gets you no place, kick back the balme bill thing


Well it cuts both ways Batman....I'll agree to that

I don't know I recall a bit of a thread on stem cells where at least I disagree with some of the others in the right

badbullgator
04-10-2009, 07:49 AM
Now thats an impressive Possy !


I hear they are going to put "spinners" on AF1:cool:

JDogger
04-10-2009, 09:56 AM
I don't know I recall a bit of a thread on stem cells where at least I disagree with some of the others in the right

So what? Here's one where I agree with you.

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=399593#post399593

What is the "balme bill thing"? Sounds nasty.

subroc
04-11-2009, 07:02 AM
This is interesting as a comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gJtIss7xso&feature=player_embedded


Interesting piece of information on protocol.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ju1XvqoMookC&pg=PA697&lpg=PA697&dq=protocol+bowing+Americans+meeting+foreign+monar ch&source=bl&ots=5GygELF-FT&sig=51ybqyGmwHAzO8pil6S6ws0-ikI&hl=en&ei=G9LUSbSmJNbfnQe10eHzDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2

It appears the bow is directly related to a monarchs mastery over his/her subjects.

In the end, it was and is a "HUGE" protocol gaffe. Heads of state are equals and while there is a need for respect, showing subservience isn’t the way it is done.

Determining how much this gaffe matters is up to us all. To me, on the world stage, I believe it is a gaffe of some significance. I am not surprised and have come to expect such gaffes from this administration.

BTW, it is OK with me if he wants to be subservient to the saudi king. I just wish he wouldn't do it while representing the United States!