PDA

View Full Version : The only think slower than the US Postal Service



Legacy 6
04-13-2009, 12:04 PM
The only thing slower than the United States Postal Service is Capital Hill letting the US NAVY know when they can rescue CPT Phillips.

Why did it take 5-6 days for our Administration to deem CPT Phillips in enough danger to finally take the "offensive?"

They reported it yesterday as if all the Navy was waiting for was some sign that CPT Phillip's life was in danger, like an AK-47 pointed directly at him??

When I was in Iraq, we had some pretty unreasonable Rules of Engagement. They really tied our hands at times when we needed to be able to use our training, combat experience and instincts, and instead at times, we waited for a radio or BFT message.

But this!? This take it to a whole new level!! Why did it take 5 days? Why did we need a Negotiator from the FBI there? The only Negotiator there should have been was a team of 7.62mm rounds.

When CPT Phillips tried swimming away, why wasn't there a team of SEALs there waiting to pick him up, or drag him underwater and stick a regulator in his mouth? ANYTHING!? He did his part, and we sat there in a big ship and sat on our hands...

WTF!? Over...

Bob Gutermuth
04-13-2009, 04:35 PM
Comrade Osama likely didn't know whether to fish or cut bait.

Terry Britton
04-13-2009, 05:42 PM
When CPT Phillips tried swimming away, why wasn't there a team of SEALs there waiting to pick him up, or drag him underwater and stick a regulator in his mouth? ANYTHING!? He did his part, and we sat there in a big ship and sat on our hands...

WTF!? Over...

It goes directly to the lack of leadership in the Whitehouse. It took him 5 to 6 days to figure out that appropriate force may mean killing the bad guys.

Richard Halstead
04-13-2009, 05:45 PM
Idon't want to defend the president, but this out come of wating until the pirates guard was down.

zeus3925
04-13-2009, 06:51 PM
It is always so damn easy when you're not there to second guess. They rescued the guy and that's what matters--and they killed three of them in the bargain. As for the last one--do they still have yardarms in the Navy?

road kill
04-13-2009, 07:05 PM
It is always so damn easy when you're not there to second guess. They rescued the guy and that's what matters--and they killed three of them in the bargain. As for the last one--do they still have yardarms in the Navy?
Agreed, President Obama is a HERO!!

Legacy 6
04-13-2009, 08:06 PM
Agreed, President Obama is a HERO!!

I'd like to point out that now they are arguing over they should try him in New York or DC, and whether they should prosecute him as an adult or a juvenile... Like he's got Rights here in the US...

Also, let's say he get convicted... they say he could face life in prison...

Okay, let me get this straight. He is a fricken Pirate. He takes an American Citizen hostage at gun point, he gets convicted, and he goes to prison for life...

AND WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!?

HERO!? I sure hope you're being sarcastic.

Also, you apparently didn't notice that Obama was VERY behind the scenes during the whole thing. We got more information from Secretary Clinton that PBO. Then as soon as CPT Phillips was rescued, Rahm started totting Obama as a Hero for strategizing the whole thing, and how involved he was, etc... ONLY AFTER.

God forbid he should take a stance before he can take credit for something good or bad that happens.

road kill
04-13-2009, 09:36 PM
I'd like to point out that now they are arguing over they should try him in New York or DC, and whether they should prosecute him as an adult or a juvenile... Like he's got Rights here in the US...

Also, let's say he get convicted... they say he could face life in prison...

Okay, let me get this straight. He is a fricken Pirate. He takes an American Citizen hostage at gun point, he gets convicted, and he goes to prison for life...

AND WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!?

HERO!? I sure hope you're being sarcastic.
Also, you apparently didn't notice that Obama was VERY behind the scenes during the whole thing. We got more information from Secretary Clinton that PBO. Then as soon as CPT Phillips was rescued, Rahm started totting Obama as a Hero for strategizing the whole thing, and how involved he was, etc... ONLY AFTER.

God forbid he should take a stance before he can take credit for something good or bad that happens.

:cool: Sarcasm doesn't work well I guess.
I am just amazed at what a big deal he thinks he is because HE defeated a couple pirates!!

Especially given his loathing for the military and all things USA!!

Lisa S.
04-13-2009, 11:38 PM
Like the ending, reads like a headline: Captain safe; 3 Pirates dead.

If the Cap had successfully escaped the first time, the Navy wouldn't have killed the pirates without the hostage.

I'm sure the remaining pirate is wanted in some other country for previous offenses. Let's just turn him over to them.:twisted:

YardleyLabs
04-14-2009, 06:43 AM
I must have missed something. I do not watch much TV, but have seen and read nothing suggesting to me that the administration is trying to paint itself as the hero in this drama. They appear to have done no saber rattling in advance of acting -- a sharp contrast with the past -- and to have acted only when they could do so decisively without endangering the hostages. What exactly would you have wanted them to do differently? It seems to me the situation was handled competently with the focus on those who deserve it: the crew of the Alabama and the SEALs.

road kill
04-14-2009, 06:57 AM
I must have missed something. I do not watch much TV, but have seen and read nothing suggesting to me that the administration is trying to paint itself as the hero in this drama. They appear to have done no saber rattling in advance of acting -- a sharp contrast with the past -- and to have acted only when they could do so decisively without endangering the hostages. What exactly would you have wanted them to do differently? It seems to me the situation was handled competently with the focus on those who deserve it: the crew of the Alabama and the SEALs.

Read Mondays NY Times headlines.

YardleyLabs
04-14-2009, 07:18 AM
Read Mondays NY Times headlines.
The headline I see is "Navy Rescues Captain, Killing 3 Pirate Captors. Concerns That His Life Was in Danger Prompted American Snipers to Fire". Obama's name or role appears no where in the headline.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/13/nytfrontpage/scan.jpg

Legacy 6
04-14-2009, 08:07 AM
You're right, PBO himself isn't doing his own promotion; he’s got Rahm for that. The WH was completely silent before the SEALs took their shots. Call me crazy, but it was so they could distance themselves from the event should the good Capt Phillips have died. Only after did Rahm start spewing how in control and decisive our precious PBO was...

By the way, he was obliged through law to allow the SEALs to use deadly force from the beginning.

Furthermore Jeff, what they should have done is killed the pirates on Day One. Also, we should sink every Somali ship we see without question. There is no other reason those people are there other than piracy. That makes them criminals and terrorists, these SOB's can't claim they were just "digging a hole in the side of the road" like some of the Iraqi Skinnies did. These Somalis cannot claim innocence while being on a ship, armed and participating in piracy...

What more could they have done!? go back and reread my initial post. I had a few ideas, and it only took me, what like 5 seconds to come up with that?

Listen, for what it's worth, I have been in combat and I know that the SEALs were waiting on some beaurocratic/politics compost heap of "Rules of Engagement." Meaning, they had to wait until they could see that the pirates meant to use deadly force, and therefore the SEALs could use and "equivalent and fair" use of force against them. My issue with this is Capt Phillips was in harm's way the entire time. They took him with no other intention that either getting their money, or killing him so next time they took a hostage, the ransom payers knew they meant business...

So Richard Phillips sat on a boat with 4-5 captors all with guns for 5-6 days waiting to see if his country would rescue him. Waiting to see if he will die in the next minute. Waiting to see if someone would do more than talk reasonably with unreasonable people...

Jeff, I hope you don't think I'm being rude to you man. I am definitely distressed by this situation because I've been there, I've seen it, and I've been held back from doing what I knew to be right because we have to worry more about a newspaper report (or paperwork) than the lives of men and women who have earned their Citizenship.

If you can't see this, then I can't say anything that will ever change your mind.

J Hoggatt
04-14-2009, 08:36 AM
I am waiting for BHO to apologize to the pirates and the rest of the world again - that we acted with arrogance - when we killed their comrade.

Haven't lost all faith in the White House - but not much left ----oops -

There is SO much "left" in the white house----- I don't think they have a right.

road kill
04-14-2009, 09:07 AM
The headline I see is "Navy Rescues Captain, Killing 3 Pirate Captors. Concerns That His Life Was in Danger Prompted American Snipers to Fire". Obama's name or role appears no where in the headline.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/13/nytfrontpage/scan.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/14/world/africa/14pirates.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=monday,%20%22april%2013,%202009%22&st=cse

I especially like this part;

"In permitting members of the Navy Seals to shoot the pirates holding the captain, Richard Phillips, Mr. Obama navigated a crisis that played out in full view of the world."
And then;

Obama Signals More Active Response to Piracy

"WASHINGTON — President Obama vowed Monday to “halt the rise of piracy” off the coast of Africa following the dramatic rescue of an American merchant captain, foreshadowing a longer and potentially more treacherous struggle ahead as he weighs a series of problematic options."

Maybe I am making this up??

Maybe it's being overplayed!!

Especially from those that loathe the military and all things USA!!


(BTW---I said "headlines," that is plural, all of them, not just the one you like!!)


I don't really want to argue with you, you seem to be a well read, learned man.
But my country that I know, LOVE, served and fought for is being mongrelized.
I guess I have to deal with it, but I do NOT have to like it!!

Obama represents everything I dissaprove of in America today.

zeus3925
04-14-2009, 09:48 AM
For all you John Wayne types, you might also take note that within the last few days the French went storming in when the pirates had a compliment of a French yacht hostage. The French owner ended up getting killed. In hostage situations our police almost never go storming directly in.

I don't think the rescue of the good captain of the Alabama is the end of it. Stay tuned.

Legacy 6
04-14-2009, 10:05 AM
For all you John Wayne types, you might also take note that within the last few days the French went storming in when the pirates had a compliment of a French yacht hostage. The French owner ended up getting killed. In hostage situations our police almost never go storming directly in.

I don't think the rescue of the good captain of the Alabama is the end of it. Stay tuned.

Yup, this is in another thread too. I said it once, I'll say it again... it's a truly sad day in America when the French act more directly, with swifter action than we do... A sad day for the US for sure...

“somewhat troubled by the absence of a consistent policy governing our willingness to permit the President to participate in these private, commercial tributes . . . .” ~John Wayne

“I stick to simple themes. Love. Hate. No nuances. I stay away from psychoanalyst's couch scenes. Couches are good for one thing.” ~John Wayne

“Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway” ~John Wayne

“If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow.” ~ John Wayne

“A horse is a horse,it ain´t make a difference what color it is.” ~John Wayne

"I never shot nobody I didn't have to." ~John Wayne

"Somebody oughta belt you in the mouth. But I won't, I won't... The hell I won't." ~John Wayne

Yup, I'm a John Wayne Type Regards,

zeus3925
04-14-2009, 10:17 AM
Well, ol' John Wayne had great lines for the movies but the movies ain't real life. Skill and finesse is not defined by throwing a stick of dynamite in every outhouse.

luvalab
04-14-2009, 11:02 AM
French hostage, dead. American hostage, alive. I like the way we did it better; I would imagine the captain and his family do as well.

Unless they agree with some of you that John-Wayne-ing it and dying for the privilege would have been better... (which would have immediately been compared to the failed attempt to secure the Iranian hostages under Carter's administration... so I fail to see the glory in that...)

So it turned out alright; the President laid low, the SEALS did their thing, most of the bad guys are dead and the good guys are alive, and people are expressing relief and gratitude. And you're upset? How patriotic is THAT?

And one more thing--I'm the first to say that there are far more upsetting things going on with the Obama administration--and the government as a whole--than this incident points to. What's the deal with all the drama???






Oh wait... pirates... yeah...

So long as there are pirates in the world, everyone will be able to keep the debate emotional and meaningless, just where we like it. :rolleyes:

Carry on.

Gerry Clinchy
04-14-2009, 02:50 PM
luvalab

French hostage, dead. American hostage, alive. I like the way we did it better; I would imagine the captain and his family do as well.


I believe there were several hostages on the French ship, not just one. That made the Capt. Phillips' situation a bit easier. Had there been more hostages, U.S. tactics might have been different.

No doubt about it, Capt. Phillips made a smart and brave deicision when he convinced the pirates to take just one hostage.

luvalab
04-14-2009, 03:39 PM
Agreed, the captain did something outstanding and brave.

J Hoggatt
04-14-2009, 10:17 PM
For all you John Wayne types, you might also take note that within the last few days the French went storming in when the pirates had a compliment of a French yacht hostage. The French owner ended up getting killed. In hostage situations our police almost never go storming directly in.

I don't think the rescue of the good captain of the Alabama is the end of it. Stay tuned.

Question:
Do you wish you could apologize for our arrogance and bullying of the entire world? Just curious.

French - you did say the French - ENOUGH SAID --was probably walking backward -- read your history books.

zeus3925
04-14-2009, 10:42 PM
Question:
Do you wish you could apologize for our arrogance and bullying of the entire world? Just curious.

French - you did say the French - ENOUGH SAID --was probably walking backward -- read your history books.

Apologize? Huh? What are you talking about, man? I'm talking about a rescue not mea culpas, here.

As for the French look here:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/194049

Sabireley
04-20-2009, 06:16 AM
The only way to stop the piracy is for the risk to outweigh the reward. Somali pirates need to start paying a significant price. Just this past week, some pirates who attempted to hijack a tanker were detained and released because they could not be prosecuted under Canadian law.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8006827.stm

"American forces joined in Sunday's pursuit of pirates who used rocket-propelled grenades in an attack on the 80,000-tonne MV Front Ardenne."

It seems to me a they should have just blown the pirate boats of the water with rockets or cannons.

BrianW
04-20-2009, 09:18 AM
I must have missed something. What exactly would you have wanted them to do differently? It seems to me the situation was handled competently with the focus on those who deserve it: the crew of the Alabama and the SEALs.

I'll let the crew member of the Maersk Alabame make most of the statement:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7996723.stm
"This is a crisis, wake up. This crew is lucky....we're not gonna be that lucky again"

In the words of Evan Graham (this still IS connected to a dog training website, right? ;-)) "Being lucky is NOT the same as working smart!"