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Franco
04-25-2009, 11:38 AM
Do we need more reasons why it is so important to be able to regulate our boarders?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090425/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/med_swine_flu

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Health/Virus+could+throw+wrench+into+pandemic+planning/1532800/story.html

Bob Gutermuth
04-25-2009, 02:32 PM
Its time to build an Iron Curtain in reverse, to keep people out, not in and hire all the now unemployed KGB Border Guards to man it. Some land mines would make it work even better.

Terry Britton
04-25-2009, 07:30 PM
Do we need more reasons why it is so important to be able to regulate our boarders?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090425/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/med_swine_flu

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Health/Virus+could+throw+wrench+into+pandemic+planning/1532800/story.html

That is just the tip of the iceburg. The criminal aliens bring many diseases across the border that we normally control in our population through vacinations. It gets worse when you concider they bring stuff across that we quit vacinating for years ago because we erradicated it here. One could throw bio-terrorist charges on top of everything else with the criminal aliens.

YardleyLabs
04-25-2009, 08:44 PM
And since we are the only other country that has had cases of this kind of flu we should presumably place ourselves in quarantine to protect the rest of the world, or is that different?

Eric Johnson
04-25-2009, 08:59 PM
This isn't about border control. The cases that have been reported in the US are cases of Americans who traveled legally. It doesn't take illegal aliens for this to cross the border and once the border is crossed, it's been crossed.

Eric

BrianW
04-25-2009, 11:23 PM
This isn't about border control. ?!?
The cases that have been reported in the US are cases of Americans who traveled legally. It doesn't take illegal aliens for this to cross the border and once the border is crossed, it's been crossed. Eric

:confused:


If this isn't a border issue why did CDC deploy 7 epidemiologists to San Diego County, California and Imperial County, California and 1 senior medical officer to Texas on April 24th?
How many illegal swine do you think cross the border daily? (OK that's a loaded question!)

Terry Britton
04-26-2009, 01:01 AM
:confused:


If this isn't a border issue why did CDC deploy 7 epidemiologists to San Diego County, California and Imperial County, California and 1 senior medical officer to Texas on April 24th?
How many illegal swine do you think cross the border daily? (OK that's a loaded question!)

The CDC has been deployed multiple times for stuff coming across the border that never makes news.

Eric Johnson
04-26-2009, 07:28 AM
My point was that you could have a border locked down....100% of all crossings were legal...and you'd still have the current public health problem. This disease is not using a swine vector. It's transmitted human to human.

Eric

Franco
04-26-2009, 08:02 AM
And since we are the only other country that has had cases of this kind of flu we should presumably place ourselves in quarantine to protect the rest of the world, or is that different?

Yes, other countries should be worried about travelers who originate from the southwest portion of the USA. Typical though for the Dems to lay the blame at Americans first. Lets not ignore where the real problem is and where it originated. Secure boarders now!!! And, if you really want to blame someone, blame our leaders in DC for all the deaths that happen north of the Rio Grande.

Denial is not a solution!

Terry Britton
04-26-2009, 08:43 AM
My point was that you could have a border locked down....100% of all crossings were legal...and you'd still have the current public health problem. This disease is not using a swine vector. It's transmitted human to human.

Eric

But with a 100% lockdown, we would start saving millions in tax payer dollars by not being forced to provide medical care to those that wonder up here with diseases that then need to be treated.

Treat those crossing illegally as an act of war through either our bioterrorism laws or our war on drugs. This would give our military and national guards something productive to do as well, since if they were given the orders to protect us from these threats, they would be effective in working with the border patrol to eliminate them. This would open up many possibilities from land mines to gun ships in defending us from either criminals or acts of war.

Bob Gutermuth
04-26-2009, 10:17 AM
For a lot of reasons the border needs to be shut down totally nad it needs to be enforced!

BrianW
04-26-2009, 10:31 AM
My point was that you could have a border locked down....100% of all crossings were legal...and you'd still have the current public health problem. This disease is not using a swine vector. It's transmitted human to human. Eric

Right now, we don't KNOW all the vectors, this is a "swine/avian/human" Type A influenza, something that's never been seen before in this combination and WHO spokesman Thomas Abraham said. “We have what appears to be a novel virus and it has spread from human to human.”
They are NOT saying it is ONLY spread from human to human. Note currently WHO is at at a Phase 3 Alert - In Phase 3, an animal or human-animal influenza reassortant virus has caused sporadic cases or small clusters of disease in people, but has not resulted in human-to-human transmission sufficient to sustain community-level outbreaks. Limited human-to-human transmission may occur under some circumstances, for example, when there is close contact between an infected person and an unprotected caregiver. However, limited transmission under such restricted circumstances does not indicate that the virus has gained the level of transmissibility among humans necessary to cause a pandemic.
What IF it started from people eating infected pork or poultry? Which brings me to:

WHERE DID IT COME FROM?!?
What IF this is a bio-terrorist attack?
This thing has killed at least 60 people in Mexico and more than 900 others have fallen ill. They've shut down schools, museums and other public gathering places, and the Army has been distributing face masks to the population. But all the CDC can say here is that "it's too late to contain" so

There are everyday actions people can take to stay healthy.
Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw the tissue in the trash after you use it.
Wash your hands often with soap and water, especially after you cough or sneeze. Alcohol-based hands cleaners are also effective.
Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth. Germs spread that way.Try to avoid close contact with sick people.
Influenza is thought to spread mainly person-to-person through coughing or sneezing of infected people.
If you get sick, CDC recommends that you stay home from work or school and limit contact with others to keep from infecting them.And even if it isn't a bio attack, this definitely could fit the description of a "man-caused disaster" so DHS "could" step in. If this was a flood, we'd at least be trying to sandbag and stop the SOURCE of the problem. A wildfire, you try to cut a firebreak and limit the damage. If this turns into a human 'flood" because we've got better health care than south of the border, we're SCREWED!

If the border was controlled, we wouldn't have the same "current public health problem",we'd have passports, visas etc. and could have at least SOME semblance of control; who came in, from what town, at what crossing, what date, etc. Right now we have next to nothing! Our border "dike" is more breaks than bags, and worse yet, it is actually diverting the people that will be most likely to carry this virus AWAY from the places where there MAY be medical care to help them and out into uncontrolled "no man's land". But even if we did actual records, some activist judge would probably step in and rule that this is some privacy issue! :mad:

In Honduras, Health Minister Carlos Aguilar said Saturday it may quarantine passengers with flu-like symptoms. So Honduras can take "some" type of positive action, but WE can't?
Blame whatever Administration you want. That's not too important right now.

But while you deny, people will die.

BrianW
04-26-2009, 01:09 PM
From AP http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/med_swine_flu_q_a
Q. Can people get swine flu?
A. Swine flu viruses don't usually infect humans. There have been occasional cases, usually among people who've had direct contact with infected pigs, such as farm workers."We've seen swine influenza in humans over the past several years, andin most cases, it's come from direct pig contact. This seems to be different," said Dr. Arnold Monto, a flu expert with the University of Michigan.

Q. Is the same swine flu virus making people sick in Mexico and the U.S.?
A. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said the Mexican virus samples match the U.S. virus. The virus is a mix of human virus, bird virus from North America and pig viruses from North America, Europe and Asia.


Q. Are there drugs to treat swine flu in humans?
A. There are four different drugs approved in the U.S. to treat the flu, but the new virus has shown resistance to the two oldest.

Q. Does a regular flu shot protect against swine flu?
A. The seasonal flu vaccine used in the U.S. this year won't likely provide protection against the latest swine flu virus.

So THIS virus appears different from anything in the last several years, is a mix of viruses from all over the world and is resistant to drugs & vaccines.

Anyone care to discuss "weaponized bioagents"?

Franco
04-26-2009, 01:26 PM
Anyone care to discuss "weaponized bioagents"?



It has already killed 81 in Mexico. Our leaders can't hide from this one, or can they?

ALL areas where there have been outbreaks need to be quarentined.

Snicklefritz
04-26-2009, 02:58 PM
Quarantine is only effective at the earliest stages of an outbreak and where a population can containded by infrastructure or geograpy (an island). This cat is already out of the bag with confirmed cases in 4 states, New Zealand, and supsected cases in France and Spain.. Quarantines would be a whole lot of wasted energy.

Closing the borders would be equally ineffective. If it ever could work...it's too late!

This is not an 'illegal imigration' issue. The people that are spreading the virus are on the 'great silver birds' as in airliners. That's not new. Knowledgeable people have known this would happen for at leat 10 years.

Your US Government is on this with golf-shoes. They have already released the Strategic National Stockpile of Tamiflu and declared a state of national emergency. The CDC is anticipating an increase in both the number and severity of cases. An they are making forward leaning statements about next fall. Pay attention...please!

Stay tuned, and learn all you can. But, please don't politicize this...it's too damned important for that.

BrianW
04-26-2009, 04:02 PM
This cat is already out of the bag ...
What about the next one?


Closing the borders would be equally ineffective. If it ever could work...it's too late! Repeat above


This particular case (italics mine) is not an 'illegal imigration' issue. The people that are spreading the virus are on the 'great silver birds' as in airliners. Not yet. BUT "We're preparing in an environment where we really don't know ultimately what the size or seriousness of this outbreak is going to be." stated Janet Napolitano.
This is a excellent example (imo) of why our border needs to be controlled! Truckloads of "undocumented" people are shipped freely over the border on a daily basis. It's no major stretch of the imagination to have highly contagious weaponized bioagents carried by infected "mules" that could wreak havoc wherever these folks are dropped off.


Your US Government is on this with golf-shoes. They have already released the Strategic National Stockpile of Tamiflu and declared a state of national emergency. The CDC is anticipating an increase in both the number and severity of cases. An they are making forward leaning statements about next fall. Pay attention...please! Proactive is better than reactive, but I'll take what we can get in this case.

Stay tuned, and learn all you can. But, please don't politicize this...it's too damned important for that. No, it's too damned important not to. As you've said yourself, this has been predicted for years. and still practically nothing has been done. Ask the health care workers in the Southwest how they feel about treating possibly drug resistant TB cases that come into ER rooms for free medical care. How long do we continue to rely on luck? This is nothing compared to what a concerted, dedicated effort by our enemies could do.

In this case, maybe we NEED to take a hint from Rahm Emanuel and don't let a crisis go to waste. Pandering for demographic votes in order to get elected has gone on for far too long and sacrificing our national security in the hopes of advancing political agendas has got to stop by both parties!!

Snicklefritz
04-26-2009, 04:29 PM
BrianW said:



In this case, maybe we NEED to take a hint from Rahm Emanuel and don't let a crisis go to waste. Pandering for demographic votes in order to get elected has gone on for far too long and sacrificing our national security in the hopes of advancing political agendas has got to stop by both parties!!


OK, I can live with that. But, your statement about this going on for years and nothing being done is not correct. Check out the site below (even though it pains me that the former administration accomplished this much):

http://www.pandemicflu.gov/

Marvin S
04-26-2009, 05:07 PM
Try www.cdc.gov/swineflu/key_facts.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/key_facts.htm) for info.

Pat G
04-27-2009, 12:28 AM
First you say don't politicize this then, you turn rite around and and do exactly that. Next you'll tie in a little force fetch into the issue. Maybe Bush had something to do with this...


." Check out the site below (even though it pains me that the former administration accomplished this much)"

Pat

badbullgator
04-27-2009, 09:32 AM
Mark my words

the sky is falling

http://floridasportsman.com/art/nilly.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10592683#)http://floridasportsman.com/art/nilly.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10592683#)http://floridasportsman.com/art/nilly.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10592683#)http://floridasportsman.com/art/nilly.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10592683#)

It is the flu folks and yes through history the flu has killed far more than anything else, but it is not a panic situation and few will die from this. Huge difference between living conditions in Mexico and America

Snicklefritz
04-27-2009, 09:44 AM
OK Pat, you're right...poor choice of words. What I should have said is that the former administration did a laudable job of putting plans and infrastructure in place for just such an event.

Cory, you're right too, the sky is not falling. The appearance of novel influenza virus is significant because it opens yet another door for a pandemic to emerge whether this one does now, or not. This strain has met the criteria of a pandemic capable virus. But, that doesn't mean it will cause a pandemic.

As far as virulence goes, it's too early to calculate a reliable case fatality ratio, but the virus has demonstrated the ability to kill healthy young adults.

BrianW
04-27-2009, 09:55 AM
... But, your statement about
1. this going on for years and
2. nothing being done is not correct..
3. Check out the site below (even though it pains me that the former administration accomplished this much):
1. Fwiw, I merely agreed with YOU in that "That's not new. Knowledgeable people have known this would happen for at leat 10 years."
2. "still practically nothing has been done" All the preparations don't help much if you don't implement them. At the time, all the Center for Disease "Control" had done was but throw up it's hands and say "it's too late, it's out of control" & tell people to "wash their hands" Yes, they DID send 8 responders to the border area. DHS had only declared an emergency to make anti-viral meds available. Imo, that's practically nothing and I stand by my statement at the time.

Now, surprise, surprise, "The United States launched border screening for swine flu exposure Monday morning" Richard Vesser, acting head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, revealed that U.S. authorities were starting to undertake "passive screening" at its borders. He reported that U.S. border officials would be "asking people about fever and illness, looking for people who are ill."
Officials along the U.S.-Mexico border were asking health care providers to take respiratory samples from patients who appear to have the flu. Travelers were being asked if they visited flu-stricken areas.
Some schools in New York City, Texas, California and Ohio also were closing after students were found or suspected to have the flu.
So maybe somebody has actually activating an Incident Command Structure now & IS realizing that we DO need to at least make an effort to control the source.
"But we honestly don't know. We don't know enough yet about how this virus operates. More work needs to be done."said Peter Cordingley, a WHO spokesman, who said it was spreading rapidly in Mexico and the southern United States.

How about the State Dept advising against travel to Mexico?
How about Customs & Immigration announcing a passport database screening for ALL arrivals from Mexico in the last 2 weeks?
How about a National Guard activation in ALL southern border states to augment the Border Service, including possible Predator surveillance flights?
How about DHS announcing the etsablishment of Tamiflu staging locations?

C'mon the 1st two are "no-brainers", the others just logic, imo.
Proactive is the key word!

3. It actually PAINS you to admit the Bush Administration did something positive? :confused: Amazing! :rolleyes:

badbullgator
04-27-2009, 10:24 AM
OK Pat, you're right...poor choice of words. What I should have said is that the former administration did a laudable job of putting plans and infrastructure in place for just such an event.

Cory, you're right too, the sky is not falling. The appearance of novel influenza virus is significant because it opens yet another door for a pandemic to emerge whether this one does now, or not. This strain has met the criteria of a pandemic capable virus. But, that doesn't mean it will cause a pandemic.

As far as virulence goes, it's too early to calculate a reliable case fatality ratio, but the virus has demonstrated the ability to kill healthy young adults.


The media is already calling it a pandemic. Of course they are always a good source of information :rolleyes:

It has also been shown to be easily treated with retrovirals like Tamaflu...

How is that whole SARS and or bird flu thing going?

Novel and emerging infectious disease are always a concern, however, the WHO is about as inept at dealing with real health issues as the UN is at dealing with world threats. Much to do about nothing IMHO. We will hear about it on the news for the next six weeks and then it will fall off into oblivion…..
The government is tooting its own horn by declaring an emergency so they can free up stock piled medicines. Here is a little something to think about in that regard. The annual flu season is about over for the year and all those stockpiled medicines they are freeing up to save us are all going in the trash if not used in the next few months anyway. The vaccines (none for this strain) all expire in a month or two and the Tamaflu and other retrovirlas also have a shelf life of no more than a year. I have a hunch that we will be sold how “the administration” has saved the world…….
Tin foil hat regards

badbullgator
04-27-2009, 10:27 AM
Brian the CDC is no different than any other gooberment department. Do you trust or believe any of them? Most are out of touch with reality and as mentioned above the WHO is akin to the UN

Julie R.
04-27-2009, 12:33 PM
The government is tooting its own horn by declaring an emergency so they can free up stock piled medicines. Here is a little something to think about in that regard. The annual flu season is about over for the year and all those stockpiled medicines they are freeing up to save us are all going in the trash if not used in the next few months anyway. The vaccines (none for this strain) all expire in a month or two and the Tamaflu and other retrovirlas also have a shelf life of no more than a year. I have a hunch that we will be sold how “the administration” has saved the world…….

and Obomo will go globetrotting again bowing, kow towing and apologizing to countries like Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Iran and North Korea about how this pandemic was all our fault, and we're so sorry, but he hopes they'll accept our apology and some money so they will still like us.



There Corey. Fixed it for ya ;-):black::mrgreen:

badbullgator
04-27-2009, 12:35 PM
Well you know he was down there about the time it started......

Julie R.
04-27-2009, 01:24 PM
Well you know he was down there about the time it started......

And he wants socialized health care.....que the swine flu epidemic.

Obomo wants gun control....all of sudden 90 percent of the guns used in the Mexi-Drug wars come from the U.S. How convenient....

Franco
04-27-2009, 02:41 PM
And he wants socialized health care.....que the swine flu epidemic.

Obomo wants gun control....all of sudden 90 percent of the guns used in the Mexi-Drug wars come from the U.S. How convenient....

The facts are that less than 4% of thier guns come from the USA. The big providers are the gun runners from centeral and south America. I've never known of facts playing into the decision making process of the Dems.

Obomo wants our freedoms, our liberties becase he doesn't think we can handle it and he has to manage that for us!

badbullgator
04-27-2009, 02:58 PM
COme on Franco, are you saying the drug lords in south america, you know the ones who supply all the cocaine that comes up through mexico are also supply them guns?? No way, no how, those are just good old hard working guys and have never been know to have anythingto do with guns. When was the last time you heard anything but good things from columbia?

Franco
04-27-2009, 04:25 PM
COme on Franco, are you saying the drug lords in south america, you know the ones who supply all the cocaine that comes up through mexico are also supply them guns?? No way, no how, those are just good old hard working guys and have never been know to have anythingto do with guns. When was the last time you heard anything but good things from columbia?

We know the Obomonites would love to blame the USA for all the evils in the world! Maybe we can get Obomo down there to kiss some asses(he's really good at that) and ask them to please stop their violent ways. I'm sure that will do the trick!;-)

W.H.O. upgrades pandemic alert, outbreak all across Mexico on the same day Obomo is telling us not to worry!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090427/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_swine_flu_mexico

Expect a flood of illegals crossing the boarder trying to escape. Expect Obomo to do nothing but talk.

Steve
04-27-2009, 08:06 PM
While 100 hundred people in Mexico have died, no one in the US has. Last I heard only one person had been admitted to the hospital. This will probably be another crisis that isn't, just like sars, bird flu, ebola, etc....:rolleyes:

badbullgator
04-27-2009, 08:24 PM
One thing to remember is that most people do not go to the doctor with the flu unless they are really ill. In Mexico I can only imagine that even less go for the flu, but certainly no more seek care than we do here. The number of confirmed cases is easily ten times less than the actual number of cases. Do you recall when West Nile Virus first came to light? I do I was still working in infectious disease. At first it was just a few cases in a few locations, then it “spread”. What was eventually found was that nearly everyone in areas affected with WNV had exposure to it but until serological studies were done it was not known how many people had “had” the virus. Now I am not saying that this flu is as harmless as WNV and it does look to be more virulent. What I am saying is I believe many more cases will be found. Keep in mind that even when you go to the doctor for the flu most people are not actually tested for it and it is diagnosed by symptoms rather than confirmatory lab test. Even when a lab becomes involved the testing done is very specific and only for common strains. Nobody (labs) has been looking for this swine flu so right now it is hard to say how many people had it already. Did you have the flu this year? Do you know what strain it was? Did you go to the doctor? Did he send anything to the lab? No need to panic that is for sure. 35-40,000 people in the US die each year from “the flu” and this one is not headed there just yet. The last pandemic in the US was in 68 (or there about) Modern medicine, healthcare, and sanitary conditions are far better than once existed even as short a time ago as the 60’s.
All that said I would say the biggest chances of the world ending as we know it would be from Nuclear war, a meteorite, of an novel infectious disease (possibly intentionally put into the population …more tin foil hat stuff of course)
One thing I do know is the media is of no help in this matter. Many are calling it a pandemic already and with in the 7 o'clock hour I watched three different news programs, one reported "hundreds of deaths", another 149 deaths, and yet another that only reported 20 something confirmed deaths...... You can always count on the media:rolleyes:

Franco
04-27-2009, 08:50 PM
I don't know for sure if the danger is behind us or not.

What if this one or the next turns out to be extremely deadly? This is reason enough, even for the most liberal of politician REASON to secure all of our boarders. We may be lucky with this one, will we be ready for a serious one? Do you trust our government to be able to protect you?

badbullgator
04-27-2009, 08:52 PM
No I don't trust them. Remember the CDC is a gooberment agency and the WHO is very similar to the UN in their usefulness

Snicklefritz
04-27-2009, 09:25 PM
Suppose that nobody died? I think we tend to focus on the number of deaths a disease can cause and forget the overall impact of widespread illness on the economy. A reasonable infection rate for a novel virus in a naive population is 30-40 % of the population. What would be the global impact of a virus that killed no one, but sickened 30-40% of the global population, on an economy that is already weakened?

As Cory pointed out, the information we have about actual cases is likely the tip of the iceberg of what's really out there. If it turns out that there are thousands of other cases, where the patients have already recovered, it will lower the calculation of the death rate. But, it will increase the infection rate. The increase in the infection rate will also increase the RO factor, the ability of the virus to infect others, and consequently the likelyhood that it will go pandemic.

There is a whole lot we don't know yet, and may only know after things unfold. So, I can sit back and look at the rosy side and be taken by surprise. Or, I can look at other realistic, but darker, possibilities and prepare for them.

Britt&Angie S.
04-27-2009, 09:59 PM
Mark my words

the sky is falling

http://floridasportsman.com/art/nilly.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10592683#)http://floridasportsman.com/art/nilly.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10592683#)http://floridasportsman.com/art/nilly.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10592683#)http://floridasportsman.com/art/nilly.gif (http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/post?cmd=reply&id=10592683#)

It is the flu folks and yes through history the flu has killed far more than anything else, but it is not a panic situation and few will die from this. Huge difference between living conditions in Mexico and America

I agree my sister has been to Mexico twice and both times came down extremely ill can't remember what the docs called it here but it was caused from people not washing their hands after using the bathroom and then preparing food! DISGUSTING and i know that that doesn't have anything to due with the swine flu but they live very different there than here. They need to be doing more i think and i to believe that illegal aliens are bring in illnesses. I worked at a clinic here in town and their are a lot of illegals moving in this area! We hadn't seen a parvo case in a year or so and all the sudden we had many Hispanics that had dogs and pups they brought back from Mexico with sever cases of Parvo and lost a couple of them!

BrianW
04-28-2009, 12:33 AM
of an novel infectious disease (possibly intentionally put into the population …more tin foil hat stuff of course)

Granted that the media reports have to be viewed skeptically but

"...tests show a 4-year-old boy contracted the virus before April 2 in Veracruz state, where a community has been protesting pollution from a large pig farm.
The farm is run by Granjas Carroll de Mexico, a joint venture half owned by Virginia-based Smithfield Foods, Inc. Spokeswoman Keira Ullrich said the company has found no clinical signs or symptoms of the presence of swine flu in its herd or its employees working anywhere in Mexico.
Mexico's Agriculture Department said Monday that its inspectors found no sign of swine flu among pigs around the farm in Veracruz, and that no infected pigs have been found yet anywhere in Mexico."


Combine that with previous statements that the tested pig virus is from 3 different continents, doesn't that strike y'all as just a little weird?

OK, North American swine/avian/ human flu viruses reassort and enter the population in the approx center of the Western Hemisphere, acceptably bizarre.

But did the pigs just have a world wide "spring break" in Cancun that nobody noticed?


Tin foil hat & HEPA fllter regards

Snicklefritz
04-28-2009, 08:36 AM
...no clinical signs or symptoms of the presence of swine flu in its herd or its employees working anywhere in Mexico.

Mexico's Agriculture Department said Monday that its inspectors found no sign of swine flu among pigs around the farm in Veracruz, and that no infected pigs have been found yet anywhere in Mexico."
(emphasis mine)

'clincial signs or symptoms' means no visible symptoms like fever, lethargy, etc. Pigs may turn out to be asymptomatic carriers of the virus. But, can only be determined in the lab. It would be interesting to know if any of the swine livestock workers are symptomatic.

badbullgator
04-28-2009, 09:10 AM
Granted that the media reports have to be viewed skeptically but

"...tests show a 4-year-old boy contracted the virus before April 2 in Veracruz state, where a community has been protesting pollution from a large pig farm.



See this is a BIG part of the problem and why Mexico has a higher number of deaths (however, 150 aint very many in a country where very few seek medical care for minor flu). Mexico is a crap hole of a country in regard to sanitation, hygiene, and healthcare. The very fact that the community was protesting pollution form the farm (you can bet it was not greenhouse gasses and global warming they were protesting) says a lot about the conditions in the area. If you recall the bird flu struck mostly people in Asia who worked on poultry farms and not only worked on them but actually lived WITH the chickens. Poor sanitation and hygiene leads to disease and death.
I found it kind of funny yet sad at the same time that when I watched the news this morning they were reporting that the number of cases in the us had “doubled overnight”. Holy crap!!!! Yeah what they did not mention was that the new added cases were from the school in NY and that those added cases had already recovered. Oh no the sky is falling, the sky is falling.
Sinck I agree there are economic consequences to this or and infectious disease that is widespread, but that also includes the regular old influenza A and B that we se each year. IMHO the media is doing what it does best and that is add their sensationalizing to a story that is not that much of a story. Remember if it bleeds (or someone dies) it leads. They are doing more to the economy that the actual bug itself. Our area has a huge volume of European tourist during the summer months and this will without a doubt hurt our area. I am not saying that the media should not cover it, but devoting 15 minutes each hour to showing people in Mexico wearing mask, a few Asian tourist wearing them in JFK, B roll footage of labratorians plating BACTERIA (viral cultures are grown in flask of media most of the time with a cell line to support growth of the virus, bacteria is spread out on plates containing nutrient media specific to what you are looking for) and other scary footage is nothing more than sensationalism PERIOD. The story could and should be done without all the scary footage. Tell us there is a health warning, tell us numbers if you wish, tell us what it is called and how you get it, tell us what to do if you think you have been exposed but don’t try to scare the crap out of people so your ratings will grow. If the media was actually the News media and reported only the news our world would be a better place

Hew
04-28-2009, 09:28 AM
I was in China for a few weeks at the height of the SARS "epidemic." What a cluster-you-know-what. It seemed like the entire country, including dirt poor peasants, was walking around in surgical or dust masks. I'd bet that more people died from problems associated with wearing negative pressure respirators/masks than they did from SARS. Every place that might have foreigners (airports, hotels, restaurants, etc.) was equipped with infrared thermometers...and anyone who had a high temperature would be pulled out of line and sent who-knows-where for additional examination. Wherever they checked your temperature you also had to fill out an information card with a voluminous amount of info about who you were, where you've been, where you were going, etc. Somewhere between filling out the 10th and 30th info cards, me and a guy I was travelling with had an ephiphany....the people accepting the cards couldn't read english and were just checking to make sure there was writing on every blank section of the card. We started amusing ourselves by filling out our cards as Fred Flintstone, Josie Wales, Dirk Diggler, etc. By the end, even that got boring and we started just scribbling in each blank. Withouth fail, the cards were accepted with a grin and a "Sank rou."

dback
04-29-2009, 02:42 AM
Withouth fail, the cards were accepted with a grin and a "Sank rou."

Why...you....you... racist, redneck, vile piece of .... :-) Figured I'd save dogger the trouble.

JDogger
04-29-2009, 10:41 AM
Why...you....you... racist, redneck, vile piece of .... :-) Figured I'd save dogger the trouble.

Well, thanks dback. It has become so commonplace here of late I hadn't noticed. :-| Must be one of those traditional values I hear so much about.

Ya think?

JD

BrianW
04-29-2009, 11:39 AM
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano was questioned closely by senators at a hearing in Washington about whether the U.S. should close its border with Mexico, where the outbreak apparently began and the casualties have been the greatest. She repeated the administration's position that "passive surveillance" of U.S. land and seaports was sufficient for now and said closing borders "has not been merited by the facts."

Notice that for once, that the assertion that "it cannot be done" was not used.
So now have we established the legal precedent that if there IS "merit" that it can/could be done ? :)

Terry Britton
04-29-2009, 11:40 AM
Doesn't Rumfield sit on the board of directors for the company that makes Tamiflu?

badbullgator
04-29-2009, 11:45 AM
While closing the boarders is not going to stop this it will help stem the flow of Mexicans who come over because they can walk into any hospital in TX or California and be treated. Seems the one death so far in the US is a child from…..you guessed it Mexico. It is not about legal or illegal it is about doing everything we can to reduce the number of cases we will incur. Having them come in with what seems to be a move virulent strain and go to our hospitals and infect those around them is of no benefit to us in any way. Legal and illegal know they can get free help in our hospitals. I am not against helping out most anybody, but take care of us first.Close it off now

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30471035/?GT1=43001

badbullgator
04-29-2009, 11:45 AM
Doesn't Rumfield sit on the board of directors for the company that makes Tamiflu?


And if he does??????

JDogger
04-29-2009, 12:40 PM
While closing the boarders is not going to stop this it will help stem the flow of Mexicans who come over because they can walk into any hospital in TX or California and be treated. Seems the one death so far in the US is a child from…..you guessed it Mexico. It is not about legal or illegal it is about doing everything we can to reduce the number of cases we will incur. Having them come in with what seems to be a move virulent strain and go to our hospitals and infect those around them is of no benefit to us in any way. Legal and illegal know they can get free help in our hospitals. I am not against helping out most anybody, but take care of us first.Close it off now

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30471035/?GT1=43001

You have any idea how many US citizens travel to and from mexico, or are part time residents there. Are you going to close them out too?

Franco
04-29-2009, 12:58 PM
The only country not taking this outbreak of the Mexican Flu seriously in the USA!

Why should we wait until the severity of the Mexican Flu is determinded before we take any serious precautions? Isn't our Federal government suppose to be looking out for our well-being?

This is a classic example of politics being more important than our welfare! Obomo wants to solidify the Hispanic vote/La Raza, control the 2010 Census, so that he and Rahm can jerrymander voting districts, financially support ACORN with tax payer dollars and ensure one party control.

Our Liberties are under a full-blown frontal assault by the new socialist.

gmhr1
04-29-2009, 01:47 PM
1st confirmed case in AZ

Lisa Van Loo
04-29-2009, 01:52 PM
The only country not taking this outbreak of the Mexican Flu seriously in the USA!

Why should we wait until the severity of the Mexican Flu is determinded before we take any serious precautions? Isn't our Federal government suppose to be looking out for our well-being?

This is a classic example of politics being more important than our welfare! Obomo wants to solidify the Hispanic vote/La Raza, control the 2010 Census, so that he and Rahm can jerrymander voting districts, financially support ACORN with tax payer dollars and ensure one party control.

Our Liberties are under a full-blown frontal assault by the new socialist.

Actually, what you are calling for *is* politicizing of the situation. Using this outbreak of flu to do something you've been itching to do is the definition of politicizing.

But don't let people with medical degrees and epidemiological knowhow deter you. Politicians and TV talking heads always know best in these situations.

By all means, let's close our borders. Not that that would do JACK for stopping this outbreak. Maybe we should all stop eating pork as well? Slaughter all the pigs within the US? Just because other countries are politicizing this situation, using it to ban US-raised pork, etc. is no reason we should be just as stoopid. And take my word for it, what these other countries are doing has no basis in medical relevancy. It is simple stoopidity, knee-jerk panic, playing to the crowds to win the next election. Forget educating people on how to actually avoid getting infected (our folks are doing a bang-up job, by the way). Forget giving the people the resources they need to help a sick relative, friend, or co-worker. No, just play to their fears. That will do the trick.

Hey, where were you guys when Toronto had a serious SARS outbreak a couple of years ago? Don't recall any hue and cry about closing borders then.

Sorry for the interruption. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Lisa

Franco
04-29-2009, 02:01 PM
Actually, what you are calling for *is* politicizing of the situation. Using this outbreak of flu to do something you've been itching to do is the definition of politicizing.

But don't let people with medical degrees and epidemiological knowhow deter you. Politicians and TV talking heads always know best in these situations.

Lisa

The folks with MD's and Epidemic professinals do not all agree on how this should be handled. I for one do not trust the current adminstration or their cronies to look after my welfare! I rather that if they err, they err on the side of caution.

Yes, this is a great reason to secure our boarders both north and south! What's wrong with that?

badbullgator
04-29-2009, 02:10 PM
You have any idea how many US citizens travel to and from mexico, or are part time residents there. Are you going to close them out too?


No but they can be screened coming back in now can't they.

Lisa I never said it would stop the spread. What I did say is that it will keep some of the oroginal source out.
On the other hand tell me how no closing it makes it better?

BTW- I just heard that the WHO is saying they many only be 7 deaths form this in Mexico.....stay tuned (note I got that on the radio and have not yet found it in print so ???)

badbullgator
04-29-2009, 02:18 PM
Hummmm....... seems as if some bad information is getting out. The WHO in the most recent update says only 7 deaths in Mexico


Swine influenza - update 5

29 April 2009 -- The situation continues to evolve rapidly. As of 19:00 GMT, 29 April 2009, nine countries have officially reported cases of swine influenza A/H1N1 infection. The United States Government has reported 91 laboratory confirmed human cases, with one death. Mexico has reported 26 confirmed human cases of infection including seven deaths.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_29/en/index.html

The sky is falling regards


BTW- LVL that kind of makes those MD's and epidemiologist acting as talking heads look kind of stupid don't you think? They should know better than to jump to conclusions bases on information that is not confirmed. My experiance with epidemiologist (and I have had a bit) is they are good at tracking things down once they have passed, but it takes time and using poor information just sets you back

Terry Britton
04-29-2009, 02:36 PM
You have any idea how many US citizens travel to and from mexico, or are part time residents there. Are you going to close them out too?

They aren't allowed to travel now. Some of my wifes friends had their vacation to Mexico changed to the carribean by their travel agent without there aproval.

Lisa Van Loo
04-29-2009, 02:42 PM
No but they can be screened coming back in now can't they.

Lisa I never said it would stop the spread. What I did say is that it will keep some of the oroginal source out.
On the other hand tell me how no closing it makes it better?

BTW- I just heard that the WHO is saying they many only be 7 deaths form this in Mexico.....stay tuned (note I got that on the radio and have not yet found it in print so ???)

Explain "original source"? Makes no sense to an knowledgeable person. The virus is already here. It is the same virus. Does not discriminate between Mexicans and US citizens (or anyone else). If it is going to spread, it will do so. Horses are out, no point slamming the barn door closed.

Close the borders, means nobody passes. If even one person gets across, the quarantine is effectively broken, and closing the borders is then pointless. But truly, have you spent any time on either border (or the ocean ports, let's not forget those borders, plus air travel, that will have to be banned as well Closed means closed.). What are we going to do, form a human chain to keep absolutely everyone out? Because when it comes to stopping epidemics, that is exactly the ONLY way the closing borders would work. So, in real-world terms, please do edify me as to how you propose to keep any and all diseases out of the US??? What you are really talking about is trying to quarantine the entire US. Nobody gets in. Nobody gets out (if they do, they don't get back in). Do you have kids? Did any of them ever have chicken pox? Was your house under quarantine? Tell me, how'd that work for you? If you think it's hard quarantining one house with a 4-year-old, try an entire country.

Not closing it makes it better simply because medical supplies that we need are manufactured in foreign countries. All gloves used in medical work, for instance, made overseas. Almost all vaccines, made overseas. I could go on and on, but I hope you see the point. Where epidemics are concerned, CLOSED means CLOSED. NOBODY gets through. And this usually only works for "hot" viruses and small, fairly immobile populations (think African villages and Ebola, here). Mobile, first-world countries are literally incapable of stopping an epidemic in this fashion. Halt all international air traffic? You would destroy the US airlines. All trade with foreign countries would have to cease (otherwise, those merchant crews and truck drivers would take shipments over, but not be allowed back in. CLOSED means CLOSED).

Yes, those numbers are correct from WHO. Laboratory confirmation of cases in Mexico will be difficult. They simply don't have the resources. Also, the tests need to be run within 3-4 days of the start of symptoms, so confirming or denying the (much larger) numbers we are hearing from the Ignorant And Irresponsible Media may never happen.

Let's face it, if the Ignorant And Irresponsible Media wasn't having such a slow week, we would not even be having this discussion. There's no reason we need to fall for their Ignorant And Irresponsible BS.

Lisa

badbullgator
04-29-2009, 02:47 PM
I still contend that MANY Mexicans, legal and illegal cross, especially around Brownsville, seeking medical care. Sorry but stopping even one hundred keeps that much threat out of the country. Is it here? Yes. Does that mean we need even 100 cases coming in from the south? Not in my opinion.
And yes I have spent time in boarder towns and a lot of time in ports thanks.

Knowledgeable regards

gmhr1
04-29-2009, 03:22 PM
Hoping they cancel my daughters cruise scheduled for June 21 they canceled up to June 14

Lisa Van Loo
04-29-2009, 03:22 PM
I still contend that MANY Mexicans, legal and illegal cross, especially around Brownsville, seeking medical care. Sorry but stopping even one hundred keeps that much threat out of the country. Is it here? Yes. Does that mean we need even 100 cases coming in from the south? Not in my opinion.
And yes I have spent time in boarder towns and a lot of time in ports thanks.

Knowledgeable regards

Good luck with that! You still haven't presented a solid, workable proposal for how you are going to achieve this feat of keeping even 100 Mexicans out of the country. We have a rule of thumb where I work: don't complain unless you also provide one or more workable solutions. Otherwise, it is just so much cheap-seats yapping.

Hey, all you people who want to quarantine the whole country 'cause you are so skeered of Mexicans, how about doing something that will REALLY help the country? Maybe we should lock up all the fat people until they achieve a healthy weight? More people die from obesity-related conditions every year than ever do from flu, swine or otherwise. Heck, forcing the country to lose weight would save BILLIONS in related medical costs. Now there's a plan I can get behind, since I could stand to lose a few myself!

If the previous paragraph just seems absurd, well now you know how the rest of this thread looks to thinking people.

Lisa

badbullgator
04-29-2009, 03:32 PM
Fat people don't make me fat.....

sayin

Franco
04-29-2009, 03:46 PM
I still contend that MANY Mexicans, legal and illegal cross, especially around Brownsville, seeking medical care. Sorry but stopping even one hundred keeps that much threat out of the country.



And, if the Mexican Flu is worse than what we are being told, they will flood the southwestern parts of the USA looking for medical help and creating a higher risk for our own citizens.

Just another reason why open boarders are not good for the overall health and welfare of the USA!

Of course, it may take a real tragedy here in the USA before anyone in DC gets real about open boarders and the potential dangers.

Ken Newcomb
04-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Fat people don't make me fat.....

sayin

Hey who drug me into this????

Lisa Van Loo
04-29-2009, 05:03 PM
And, if the Mexican Flu is worse than what we are being told, they will flood the southwestern parts of the USA looking for medical help and creating a higher risk for our own citizens.

Just another reason why open boarders are not good for the overall health and welfare of the USA!

Of course, it may take a real tragedy here in the USA before anyone in DC gets real about open boarders and the potential dangers.


Sounds like you want the government to protect you from all risk. Hey, that sounds to me like you are pro Big Government! Almost Commie, in a way. Can't have it both ways. Either you want to Gobmint to keep its nose out of your business, or you want them to micromanage and control everything. Which is it?

I agree that dealing with illegal immigrants (from ANY country, and we have them from ALL countries) needs to be dealt with. But pretending that it will keep us safe from germs, who know no borders, well, that's just dumb. One has nothing to do with the other. While the outbreak may have started in Mexico, Patient Zero has yet to be identified. Do not forget that we are in Spring Break season. Patient Zero could well have been an American Student on vacation, who infected the Mexicans. Bet that never even crossed your mind. After all I think we all know this thread has NOTHING to do with swine flu! ;)

It's all about risk and perception of same. You seem more than willing to pull down the entire American economy and our way of life, just to avoid some germ, which would still get into the country (germs don't know anything about borders).

Here's an irrefutable fact: Being alive carries some risk. The only way to avoid all risk is to die and be done with it.

Lisa

Britt&Angie S.
04-29-2009, 05:31 PM
Just saw on T.V. they have raised it to a level 5 (six being the highest) and 5 means pandemic is Imment. So no what? Are they finally going to shut the boarder down and what about schools and businesses?

Franco
04-29-2009, 05:32 PM
Sounds like you want the government to protect you from all risk. Hey, that sounds to me like you are pro Big Government! Almost Commie, in a way. Can't have it both ways. Either you want to Gobmint to keep its nose out of your business, or you want them to micromanage and control everything. Which is it?





I want them to secure our boarders, just like any other soverign nation. We all know the reasons why there are not secured and it has nothing to do with our well-being!

PS We just confirmed our first case in Louisiana and it happens to be an undoctumented Mexican.

Britt&Angie S.
04-29-2009, 11:42 PM
I want them to secure our boarders, just like any other soverign nation. We all know the reasons why there are not secured and it has nothing to do with our well-being!

PS We just confirmed our first case in Louisiana and it happens to be an undoctumented Mexican.

Go figure! Boarders should have been shut long time ago. My sister down in Texas said Hispanics that cross the boarder to work everyday are still crossing the boarder? Could be hear say but i doubt it!

Jacob Hawkes
04-30-2009, 12:07 AM
I've never known of facts playing into the decision making process of the Dems.



ROTFLMGDAO That's glorious.