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Martin
05-15-2009, 11:23 AM
May 14 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama, calling current deficit spending “unsustainable,” warned of skyrocketing interest rates for consumers if the U.S. continues to finance government by borrowing from other countries.

“We can’t keep on just borrowing from China,” Obama said at a town-hall meeting in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, outside Albuquerque. “We have to pay interest on that debt, and that means we are mortgaging our children’s future with more and more debt.”

Holders of U.S. debt will eventually “get tired” of buying it, causing interest rates on everything from auto loans to home mortgages to increase, Obama said. “It will have a dampening effect on our economy.”

Earlier this week, the Obama administration revised its own budget estimates and raised the projected deficit for this year to a record $1.84 trillion, up 5 percent from the February estimate. The revision for the 2010 fiscal year estimated the deficit at $1.26 trillion, up 7.4 percent from the February figure. The White House Office of Management and Budget also projected next year’s budget will end up at $3.59 trillion, compared with the $3.55 trillion it estimated previously.

Two weeks ago, the president proposed $17 billion in budget cuts, with plans to eliminate or reduce 121 federal programs. Republicans ridiculed the amount, saying that it represented one-half of 1 percent of the entire budget. They noted that Obama is seeking an $81 billion increase in other spending

Is This the same guy who took office in Jan. Or have they replaced him.

Raymond Little
05-15-2009, 11:27 AM
Watch the shell in the middle, no keep your eye on the shell in the middle, you must maintain eye contact with the shell in the middle, now don't take your eye off of it!:rolleyes:


Gimme My Free Sh*& Regards:-x

txbadger
05-15-2009, 03:16 PM
Change ... indeed

How this Country elected a man, whom won't tell us who paid for his College, never ran a thing nor published an article in HLR speaks volumes of We the People, who re-elect those with sub 30% ratings. Amazing.....

subroc
05-15-2009, 03:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJHKtLnT0Ak&feature=player_embedded

Franco
05-15-2009, 04:33 PM
May 14 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama, calling current deficit spending “unsustainable,” warned of skyrocketing interest rates for consumers if the U.S. continues to finance government by borrowing from other countries.



We have been trying to tell him that since the beginning!

So, if he really beleives this, why is spending out-of-control and why doesn't he reverse all the wreckless spending he championed two months ago?

Patrick Johndrow
05-15-2009, 08:17 PM
At what point is the media going to call this idiot out?

Brad Slaybaugh
05-15-2009, 08:24 PM
At what point is the media going to call this idiot out?

I don't think they are real anxious to do that, the media is who got him elected.

subroc
05-15-2009, 08:45 PM
At what point is the media going to call this idiot out?

Patrick

I expect the media agrees with every thing he is doing and in reality think he is doing a good job.

No logic or analysis just left wing media partisanship.

badbullgator
05-15-2009, 09:14 PM
Patrick

I expect the media agrees with every thing he is doing and in reality think he is doing a good job.

No logic or analysis just left wing media partisanship.

Sad to say, but it don’t take a degree in rocket science to be a journalist (loosely used of course). They are not the sharpest scissors in the barber shop, more like the sheep getting sheared

Uncle Bill
05-16-2009, 12:27 PM
Present day journalism bought into the koolaid and ice cream analogy, and will continue to promote it. They are vested in this corruption, and will go down with the ship, if there is any leadership on the other side to begin fighting.

As I've stated many times, the left has run a successful campaign of dumbing down America. The new majority...the sheeple of the nation...have so little intelligence about what's happening to them, they just blindly hold out their hands for more ice cream. And you thought only drug addicts acted in this manner.:rolleyes:

UB

Martin
05-16-2009, 01:50 PM
I finally get the koolaid and ice cream thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm enjoyning a cold beer and waiting til about 6 til the pork butt comes off the smoker.

Meat eater here,
Regards

zeus3925
05-16-2009, 01:52 PM
Present day journalism bought into the koolaid and ice cream analogy, and will continue to promote it. They are vested in this corruption, and will go down with the ship, if there is any leadership on the other side to begin fighting.

As I've stated many times, the left has run a successful campaign of dumbing down America. The new majority...the sheeple of the nation...have so little intelligence about what's happening to them, they just blindly hold out their hands for more ice cream. And you thought only drug addicts acted in this manner.:rolleyes:

UB

"W" was the ideal POTUS for the dumbed down masses. Carl Rove and Sure Shot Dick had the country dumbed down long before Obama raised his head. Any smart politician would have taken advantage of it.

Uncle Bill
05-16-2009, 08:30 PM
"W" was the ideal POTUS for the dumbed down masses. Carl Rove and Sure Shot Dick had the country dumbed down long before Obama raised his head. Any smart politician would have taken advantage of it.


You are way wrong, 3925. You in fact are a part of the dumbed down society, so it obviously began when you were in school. You and the rest of the leftist crowd are the enablers of all this Obama crap, so trust me when I slam the current leaders, I'm also slamming the rest of you sheeple that blindly follow the dismembering of our constitution.

But then, why do you care? Probably don't have any grandkids that are being clobbered with the debts you and your party are piling on the future generations.

And then you so proudly champion another absolute communist from your state...al frankin. Have you NO shame????

I can't blame all those socialists now in charge of this once great nation, they are only grasping the brass ring you and all your mental midgets are providing them.

I realize you don't give a damn if your grandkids are burdened with debt, and will be pushing 1 for mexican by the time they use a phone, but I will fight that as long as I can.

And when your beloved Obama sends out his cadre to collect the guns, just don't be part of the group ringing my doorbell. I was sworn to live by Charlton's oath.

UB

zeus3925
05-17-2009, 12:38 PM
You are way wrong, 3925. You in fact are a part of the dumbed down society, so it obviously began when you were in school. You and the rest of the leftist crowd are the enablers of all this Obama crap, so trust me when I slam the current leaders, I'm also slamming the rest of you sheeple that blindly follow the dismembering of our constitution.

But then, why do you care? Probably don't have any grandkids that are being clobbered with the debts you and your party are piling on the future generations.

And then you so proudly champion another absolute communist from your state...al frankin. Have you NO shame????

I can't blame all those socialists now in charge of this once great nation, they are only grasping the brass ring you and all your mental midgets are providing them.

I realize you don't give a damn if your grandkids are burdened with debt, and will be pushing 1 for mexican by the time they use a phone, but I will fight that as long as I can.

And when your beloved Obama sends out his cadre to collect the guns, just don't be part of the group ringing my doorbell. I was sworn to live by Charlton's oath.

UB
Sorry, Bill. Your shot in the dark missed. Never was part of the dumbed down society. I grew up in a large extended family where politics was played as a team sport and participation was expected. I attended a religious high school where activism was encouraged. I have been an activist on non-partisan issues most of my adult life, but that doesn't equate to liberalism. And, again, you miss the mark by calling anyone that does not subscribe to the agenda of the Extreme Right a "socialist." I have an equal amount of dislike for the Extreme Left, as I do for the Extreme Right. The Extreme Left generally doesn't post here.

I have had a fair amount of grounding in constitutional law. I have not seen anything so far from the Obama crowd that is an egregious affront to the Constitution. Certainly, not to extent the violation of individual rights and liberties were perpetrated by W. and Sure Shot Dick. But, being a good Republican, I am sure you will try to deny and obfuscate all of that.

I don't know if Al Franken is a communist or not. I didn't vote for him. I don't vote for pro-wrasslers or professional funny men. Ya missed again!

The bailout, if you can remember started, under W. Obama just continued it. I voted for Obama as he had somewhat of a clue on the depth of the economic crisis, whereas, Mc Cain did not.

Am I not comfortable with the hemorrhage of money going to Wall Street. But the choice is not an easy one. Do you let the country sink deep into a depression or do you do you do something to back stop it? I am for actively engaging the problem -- now. All I have heard from the the Republicans is bitch and moan, and Cold War name calling dredged up from the 1950's. When they solve their leadership problem, maybe we'll see something meaningful from them.

I am concerned that the call for smaller government has translated into the withdrawal of oversight. That has gotten us exactly where we are today. My concern is that the oversight is too slow and too late in coming. I also am concerned with government ownership of common stock.

This financial crisis has been brewing for a long time. The Obama crowd is too new to the game to write the critique, yet. I can't say my patience is eternal, though.

I am a firm supporter of Second Amendment rights. But, I believe we must do something to the reduce violent use of firearms, if we are going to keep our guns. That something does not include confiscation.

Uncle Bill
05-17-2009, 12:54 PM
Thanks for your comments. Care to provide any thoughts on my newest two threads? I really am interested in what causes an American to support an obvious tyrant. And please stop with the Bush bashing...your party is now in charge up to it's bungholes...live with it.

Are you a "union ubber alles" type. If so, that would tell me all I need to know, and we can stop blowing smoke at each other, because it is of no value.

UB

Raymond Little
05-17-2009, 01:52 PM
I have had a fair amount of grounding in constitutional law. I have not seen anything so far from the Obama crowd that is an egregious affront to the Constitution. Certainly, not to extent the violation of individual rights and liberties were perpetrated by W. and Sure Shot Dick. But, being a good Republican, I am sure you will try to deny and obfuscate all of that.

Chrysler bondholders being told to accept .29 cents on the dollar while the unions get .50 per Obama, Trying to taint the bankruptcy by release of this fact, Release of CIA information on interrogation, Future release of the CIA photos (yes he will it is only an act that he won't), Allowing the SEIU to strong arm the state of Kaliflower to demand rights and priviliges
in order to recieve "STIMLAS" $$$, Giving the UAW GM (GOVERNMENT MOTORS AND CHRSYLER), Strong arming business inregards to how much their suits get paid, Demanding that financial institutions take TARP MONIES, Not allowing the financial institutions to pay back TARP money, even the ones who are finacially solvent, Passing a budget without allowing anyone voting on it to read it prior to voting. This punk is going to make Nixon and WATERGATE look TAME.

Chew on These Awhile:rolleyes:

zeus3925
05-17-2009, 04:45 PM
Thanks for your comments. Care to provide any thoughts on my newest two threads? I really am interested in what causes an American to support an obvious tyrant. And please stop with the Bush bashing...your party is now in charge up to it's bungholes...live with it.

Are you a "union ubber alles" type. If so, that would tell me all I need to know, and we can stop blowing smoke at each other, because it is of no value.
UB

I guess I don't see Obama as a "tyrant". I think Bush is still a relevant issue as he was on watch went south. The Book of W. is prologue to the Book of Obama. The first year in office is mainly tweaking the policiesleft behind by the previous guy. "W" will cease to be an issue as times goes by but right now he is still writ large.

There are unions and there are unions. There are some I won't work in a shop they represent because either they are corrupt, in bed with management or just plain missing in action.

I believe that if you are running a union you are charged by the nature of the beast to win the best contract regarding pay and working conditions possible for your membership. You are also obligated to negotiate a settlement to grievances in an equitable manner possible.

I am not interested though in using a union for banditry-- either of its membership or the employer. Nor am I willing to accept a contract that throws money rather than dealing with a major unresolved management/labor issue. If you do that, the gripes come back in a matter of days and the game continues the next contract round.

I guess the short answer is no to "union uber alles".

zeus3925
05-17-2009, 05:19 PM
Chrysler bondholders being told to accept .29 cents on the dollar while the unions get .50 per Obama, Trying to taint the bankruptcy by release of this fact, Release of CIA information on interrogation, Future release of the CIA photos (yes he will it is only an act that he won't), Allowing the SEIU to strong arm the state of Kaliflower to demand rights and priviliges
in order to recieve "STIMLAS" $$$, Giving the UAW GM (GOVERNMENT MOTORS AND CHRSYLER), Strong arming business inregards to how much their suits get paid, Demanding that financial institutions take TARP MONIES, Not allowing the financial institutions to pay back TARP money, even the ones who are finacially solvent, Passing a budget without allowing anyone voting on it to read it prior to voting.



None of that ia constitutional violation.

Chrysler as an international company is subject the rules and regs of several countries, mainly the US, Canada and Mexico. I don't know what took the place in the negotiations. I do know the union lost the last contract round big time. Instead of ongoing pension being drawn from company coffers, the companies demanded and got out from under those obligations by shifting management to the union. The union was contracted to receive lump sum payments that were significantly less than the companies were obligated to pay under the old contract.

As time went on the companies were unable to do that a lesser amount to the union was negotiated in all three national jurisdictions. My understanding was if the pensions obligation fell any lower, then more government money would be obligated to cover defunct pensions by legislation in place in the various countries. I don't know about you, but I am not for paying out government money to cover someone's pancaked pension plan.

As for the bond holders, I think a simple presentation of facts rather than a dragooning was sufficient. Would you rather take 29 cents on the dollar or possibly get nothing in bankruptcy court. The major hang up in the Chrysler issue was not the union nor the bond holders but the dealer group. The company apparently has decided to chop off their heads.

As for the "suits" don't expect me to grieve for them. They are big boys and can take care of themselves. An MBA is not a license to steal from the shareholders.

You won't hear me sing praises to the SEIU anytime soon.

Mike Noel
05-17-2009, 05:31 PM
As for the bond holders, I think a simple presentation of facts rather than a dragooning was sufficient. Would you rather take 29 cents on the dollar or possibly get nothing in bankruptcy court. The major hang up in the Chrysler issue was not the union nor the bond holders but the dealer group. The company apparently has decided to chop off their heads.




In a "normal" bankruptcy court the secured bondholders would have received MUCH more than what they got. It is a fact that the WH PRESSURED the group of secured creditors with threats so they would accept the cramdown.

So, now the unions own the company....who do they negotiate with when their next contract comes up??? THEMSELVES! Chrysler has no chance now, neither will GM if the same happens to them. They will run it into the ground and all BHO did was postpone the inevitable.

Never buying a Chrysler or GM ever regards,

zeus3925
05-17-2009, 06:05 PM
In a "normal" bankruptcy court the secured bondholders would have received MUCH more than what they got. It is a fact that the WH PRESSURED the group of secured creditors with threats so they would accept the cramdown.

So, now the unions own the company....who do they negotiate with when their next contract comes up??? THEMSELVES! Chrysler has no chance now, neither will GM if the same happens to them. They will run it into the ground and all BHO did was postpone the inevitable.

Never buying a Chrysler or GM ever regards,

Mike, I definitely don't like a union owning the company. I understand the stock is in lieu of the payments to the pension fund with the idea of selling it off latter at a profit when he company bounces back. The proceeds are to cover the reduction in payments to the health and pension funds. Still this is way to prone to conflicts of interests.

Mike Noel
05-17-2009, 07:00 PM
Mike, I definitely don't like a union owning the company. I understand the stock is in lieu of the payments to the pension fund with the idea of selling it off latter at a profit when he company bounces back. The proceeds are to cover the reduction in payments to the health and pension funds. Still this is way to prone to conflicts of interests.

I have a lot of friends/clients at the hedge funds and investors that owned those loans and we/they call it BULLSHIT!

If you don't like the prospect of the govt covering those pension obs why would you support a pres that is spending a LOT more on a stimulus plan that is worth about 10% of what they said it would be and a budget that takes our national debt off the freaking charts? I think the pension obligations would be a lot smaller in the scheme of things.

I had this conversation with my stepmom the other day, she is a big Obama supporter and she didnt even know what was going on with the auto companies. I asked her what she thought we, as a country, have gained now that Obama has thumbed his nose to the rule of law and has been implementing his "hug and a handshake" diplomacy......keep in mind, she is a PhD, and the asst super at a very big school district here in Texas, a very intelligent lady.....she couldn't answer me because so far his actions have accomplished nothing!

zeus3925
05-17-2009, 10:08 PM
Mike, if you haven't noticed the whole financial world is in the tank. I had some hedge funds too and they largely evaporated. There goes the Great Retirement. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

Mike Noel
05-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Mike, if you haven't noticed the whole financial world is in the tank. I had some hedge funds too and they largely evaporated. There goes the Great Retirement. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

Haha, seriously. I am in the financial world...I trade bonds for a living. My firm is printing money right now but that doesn't change the fact that BHO has this country on the path toward financial ruin.

What part of the budget/stimulus do you support? And do you not see the BS behind his "hurry we got to have the money now" and "we cant be borrowing that much money" flip flop?

I sell bonds to them but would never invest in a hedge fund regards!

zeus3925
05-18-2009, 12:50 AM
Ameriprise is doing some mea culpas right now. I had a bond fund that dumped a lot of their holdings into derivatives. Didn't tell their investors about their plans. Big time law suits.


Ok I'll bite--You got a different solution? You're the guru. What would you do if you were POTUS?

Mike Noel
05-18-2009, 09:29 AM
Ameriprise is doing some mea culpas right now. I had a bond fund that dumped a lot of their holdings into derivatives. Didn't tell their investors about their plans. Big time law suits.


Ok I'll bite--You got a different solution? You're the guru. What would you do if you were POTUS?

I would be doing the same thing Clinton did, trying to shrink the govt and the deficit...let the markets take care of weak companies. It's like I have said before, either pay now or pay later and BHO has taken the pay later route purely for political reasons. Not that any politician would do any different. :rolleyes:

If we were to take the pay now option it would hurt for a while but in the long run would make things better.

And I am far from a guru. Just an average Joe with a little common sense that is tired of the BS coming from DC.

Mutual funds don't have to tell you what they are going to do unless it is something that is not allowed in their bylaws....

Gerry Clinchy
05-18-2009, 10:23 AM
Look at the bright side:

As the U.S. job market has tanked, immigration from Mexico has gone down. If 900 Chrysler jobs have moved from WI to Mexico ... less immigration; we save money on providing social benefits to illegal immigrants :-) Maybe we save enough to provide re-training benefit to the 900 US workers who need different jobs that will be more productive to the GNP than the inflated union wages/benefits they used to get putting in the 42nd weld on the left door of a Caravan?

If the union has ownership of the company, they might actually see a reason to make sensible labor demands and a reason to see the company become profitable. The workers get long-term benefits by making good products that sell well, and the company profits enable the company to provide jobs with reasonable wages and benefits. Capitalism wins.

Mike Noel
05-18-2009, 10:31 AM
The boy took the words right out of my mouth.....;)

http://http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/05/18/obamas_dangerous_debt_96539.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/05/18/obamas_dangerous_debt_96539.html)

zeus3925
05-18-2009, 09:13 PM
Look at the bright side:

As the U.S. job market has tanked, immigration from Mexico has gone down. If 900 Chrysler jobs have moved from WI to Mexico ... less immigration; we save money on providing social benefits to illegal immigrants :-) Maybe we save enough to provide re-training benefit to the 900 US workers who need different jobs that will be more productive to the GNP than the inflated union wages/benefits they used to get putting in the 42nd weld on the left door of a Caravan?

If the union has ownership of the company, they might actually see a reason to make sensible labor demands and a reason to see the company become profitable. The workers get long-term benefits by making good products that sell well, and the company profits enable the company to provide jobs with reasonable wages and benefits. Capitalism wins.

I don't know how many of you have worked in a auto plant. My parents did as well as my brother. My wife's father and some of her relatives worked for GM. My uncle before he retired in the early 80's was diector of Chrysler's corporate tax department. I paid for my college on a bumper plater line at Ford Motor Company.

It is easy to demonize the worker. But, the auto business is as much company attitude toward engineering as it is labor. If they are slack or technically laggard, then the best workers in the world will turn out junk. If management treats workers like crap then, crap will be the product. An fine automobile is a product of all the parts of an organization functioning harmoniously--something the American auto industrial complex has never quite gotten together while the Japanese have.

The American Auto business was formed in an era where capital was the ruling class and the capital-less were seen as industrial fodder not much above a slave. Unions were inevitable in that environment. Attitudes of this Dicksonian world die hard and slow.

Gerry Clinchy
05-20-2009, 09:50 AM
Zeus 3925 wrote:

The American Auto business was formed in an era where capital was the ruling class and the capital-less were seen as industrial fodder not much above a slave. Unions were inevitable in that environment. Attitudes of this Dicksonian world die hard and slow.

It is surely true that unions corrected an injustice. Unfortunately, the unions became a source of power over the years that led to corruption of the unions as well. I don't really blame the individual workers, but rather the leaders ... who succumbed to the temptations of power and greed.

However, you state

An fine automobile is a product of all the parts of an organization functioning harmoniously--something the American auto industrial complex has never quite gotten together while the Japanese have.


If the union workers are now also "owners", this is a unique opportunity to prove that they can join in the "cooperative" effort to build a better company, a better product, and also serve the interests of their workers with reasonable modifications to contract requirements that created some unreasonable production costs (along with the reasonable ones).

It was interesting that Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" used an auto plant as the microcosm of the socialism model. When workers are not compensated according to their production, even other workers are disgruntled by such rules. When conscientious workers are compensated for such effort, the worker and the company thrive. And the consumer benefits from that in the end. Most studies, as I recall, is that the American worker is the most productive in the world when given the opportunity.

It would be kind of interesting to compare worker productiveness of the Japanese company plants: those in Japan v. those in the US.

My son works for Toyota corporate (he visits dealerships as a mechanical trouble-shooter/trainer/problem-solver). He's always been kind of a "independent" spirit when it comes to his line of work (an auto mechanic since the age of 15). He is impressed with the quality aspect that Toyota demands at all levels ... from the production level to total customer satisfaction that extends to the sales force at the dealer level. His respect for Toyota products grew over nearly 25 years of knowing their innards very up-close-and-personal. I wasn't sure whether he had the capacity to become a "company man" ... but it seems that the company's sincere commitment to quality and customer satisfaction has made the transition from "free spirit" to "company man" possible. If they treat their production workers in accordance with those principles, then it should follow that the workers will take pride in what they produce.

Evan
05-20-2009, 10:29 AM
"When the white man found this country the Indians were running it. No taxes, no debt, women did all the work. The white man thought he could improve on this system?"

Old Cherokee saying

Evan