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View Full Version : Should there be a draft



Steve
05-30-2009, 12:20 AM
Off the Libertarian quiz thread, one of the questions was -should there be a draft. I am opposed to it. The government (i.e. the people) does not own your body.

In the practical sense, there was no shortage of volunteers in WWII or is there now. If there is a problem with recruitment, increase the wages/benefits. After all, the govenment doesn't draft defense contractors.

subroc
05-30-2009, 05:29 AM
Will there ever be a need for a massive army again or has technonolgy limited that need?

How does a society show it's appreciation to its citizens that serve?

Is it just about wages and benefits?

Are our military volunteers little more than mercenaries in your estimation?

How do we reward that service? In the time of WW2, we provided a GI Bill, today we have a society that provides everyone in a panoply of social services that exceeds in some/many cases that given by the GI Bill. Should service guarantee something above what others that don’t serve receive as a benefit from a grateful nation?

BTW, I have not taken the poll yet...

John Kelder
05-30-2009, 05:45 AM
I was fortunate enough to see first hand the patriotism of the natives in Norway ,and an Israeli's love of country is well documented . Both countries require mandatory military time .
And IMVHO ,mandatory military service is one of the main reasons for that fierce loyalty to the motherland .So no doubt in my mind a military draft is a minimum .

Matt McKenzie
05-30-2009, 08:57 AM
If we institute a draft, I hope it's after I retire. I have to deal with enough knuckleheads that volunteer. I can only imagine what I would get if they were forced in. From what I have heard (somebody else can fact check if it's important), only about 10% of the population qualifies to enlist under todays standards. I like it that way.
I like the concept of required military service, I just don't think it would work well for us in practice. Just imagine the increase in the defense budget it would require.

John Kelder
05-30-2009, 09:17 AM
It would definetly take years to get the population's mentality corrected .

Bob Gutermuth
05-30-2009, 09:36 AM
Its about time. People have forgotten that they owe this country.

Hew
05-30-2009, 09:46 AM
In the practical sense, there was no shortage of volunteers in WWII...
I don't know about that. 62% of those who served in the United States' armed forces during WWII were drafted. http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/peaceinthepacific/numbers Sure some/many/most might have volunteered eventually, but to successfully fight a war of that magnitude the generals/admirals needed to be able to plan strategeries based upon known future manpower; not hoped-for or guesstimated future manpower. The draft provided that. I dare say that if Libertarians governed the country from 1940 through 1945 the world would look a lot different than it does today (and not for the better).

That doesn't mean I think we need a draft now. Nearly every active military person I''ve seen who is asked responds the same way Matt did above. If we're ever in a military conflict where volunteers alone aren't sufficient then yes, institute a draft.

Eric Johnson
05-30-2009, 10:57 AM
Steve-

It seems to me that your initial premise is flawed. There was a draft during WWII to make up for the shortfalls in recruiting. Thus, we've never had a surge in the growth of the military of that size without a draft.

The massive growth pre-Iraq I came from the NG and Reserves. That can cover the immediate demand but if the action is forseen as a protracted one, they'll need to begin drafting.

Eric

twall
05-30-2009, 02:46 PM
I voted no for the draft. As has been mentioned I think the model for mandatory military service would be a better choice.

Tom

Lisa S.
05-30-2009, 07:07 PM
What for? On a taped-for Memorial Day interview, I heard Oliver North commenting and commending our volunteer troops as the best group of defenders he's ever seen.

dback
05-30-2009, 10:54 PM
I would like to see mandatory 'service' to the country....one option of which would be military.

JDogger
05-31-2009, 12:47 AM
Might surprise some of you, but I voted Yes. Inducted 4-1-68. April fools day. It had alot to do with who I am today.
No exemptions, though. Take 'em all.
The US's (drafted), I served with were a saner lot than most of the RA's (volunteers).

JD

Wild Sky
05-31-2009, 07:47 AM
I voted Yes if they qualify. I was not born in this country and served 6 yrs in the Marine Corps. It would be the first Discipline any of these kids have ever had.

Jim

YardleyLabs
05-31-2009, 07:49 AM
I didn't vote. I have mixed feelings about this. The Iraq War has shown the limits of how far we can go with a volunteer army. I suspect that many of the strategic decisions made to limit the size of our force were directly attributable to having an insufficient number of forces available. We have also only been able to maintain our presence by resorting to a backdoor draft where we have seriously redefined the role of the reserves and imposed extended rotations in a manner that is likely to reduce future recruitment.

If there is a draft, I believe that it should be universal and should encompass both military and non-military service. There would need to be some flexibility about the timing of service along the lines of saying that each person needs to serve two years beginning sometime between the ages of 18 and 25. In this context, I would not have any exemptions for any reason short of permanent total disability. My own view is that if a person believes that their personal freedom trumps any claims of the country upon them, they should probably go live on an island where they can form their own country. We each have a communal responsibility to the country in return for the benefits we receive by being part of the country.

Jacob Hawkes
05-31-2009, 08:04 AM
Absolutely and unequivocally no. There isn't a need for it and there shouldn't be a must serve clause either. Fix the major problem in the country, IE the economy. Neither a draft nor a must serve clause helps that. In fact, it would cripple it even worse.

Clay Rogers
05-31-2009, 10:16 AM
I believe mandatory service is a good thing. Everyone should have to spend 2 years in military immediately after graduating high school or obtaining GED. There are different MOS's in the military and the ASVAB is supposed to help decide what job you are best suited for. I firmly believe the majority of the people should not benefit from what so few people are willing to provide, FREEDOM.

Thomas D
05-31-2009, 10:23 AM
I vote for mandantory service (of some type) to our country. As long as the current system serves our needs, no need to draft. However, we all know that could change.
I was faced with the draft in 1965 and made the decision to enlist. Like one of the posters above, I believe those 4 years made me who I am today....but who knows. It certainly taught me discipline, decision making, respect, responsibility etc that I didn't have before I went in. Also allowed me to go to college afterward and pursue a great career.

Steve
05-31-2009, 12:25 PM
Well thought out responses. What I didn't say before is that I was a Marine for almost 6 years. I joined the military to help pay for college. I could have gotten more from the Army, but chose the Marines based on what the recruiter said the Marines would do for me as a person.

If we had a draft right now, I bet O'bama would try to turn it into some PC national service garbage.

No one addressed my comment on drafting defense contractors.

Jacob Hawkes
05-31-2009, 01:53 PM
Are you saying defense contractors in a mercinary sense?

Uncle Bill
05-31-2009, 02:31 PM
Back in my time, only men served first off. So what would we do about the females today?

When I went into the Guard in '53, all the boys were obligated to their country for 8 years...2 had to be active military, 2 active reserve, 4 standby reserve. When I was called up to active duty in '58 I served my 2 years, and was on standby until my discharge in '61.

Given my druthers, I'd be in favor of every able-bodied man serving in the military at least 2 years. It might just change some of the PC attitudes that are so rampant today.

UB

Jacob Hawkes
05-31-2009, 03:22 PM
Then again it could easily make things worse because now you have people doing that against their will and will certainly call the hypocrisy out when they experience it. You're asking for guaranteed failure. I'm sorry but the military isn't suppose to teach you respect & or discipline. That's what your family or guardian should do.

Clay Rogers
05-31-2009, 08:53 PM
Then again it could easily make things worse because now you have people doing that against their will and will certainly call the hypocrisy out when they experience it. You're asking for guaranteed failure. I'm sorry but the military isn't suppose to teach you respect & or discipline. That's what your family or guardian should do.

First of all, that is exactly what the military is suppose to teach you, from day one. It teaches you that you don't have to respect the person, but respect the "rank" or seniority that person has. And it damn well is suppose to teach you discipline, or aleast embed in you a stronger sense of dicipline. As far as failure goes, ask Israel if it is failing them. The worst thing it could do is instill some sort of love for country that soooooo many people are missing today. I was raised in a loving home with both parents and a sister, my dad is retired military. But I am what I am today is because of the US Army. The army taught me things my mother and father couldn't, and probably would not have if they could have.

Clay Rogers
05-31-2009, 08:56 PM
Oh yea, and to answer the question, no draft. Every Tom, Dick and Harry should have to serve 2 years, including the rich and famous. After all, most of the time they enjoy the freedom we provide more than any one else. And as far as calling out the hypocrisy, they are the ones that can storm the beaches first.:cool:

Scott Greenwood
05-31-2009, 09:15 PM
First of all, that is exactly what the military is suppose to teach you, from day one. It teaches you that you don't have to respect the person, but respect the "rank" or seniority that person has. And it damn well is suppose to teach you discipline, or aleast embed in you a stronger sense of dicipline. As far as failure goes, ask Israel if it is failing them. The worst thing it could do is instill some sort of love for country that soooooo many people are missing today. I was raised in a loving home with both parents and a sister, my dad is retired military. But I am what I am today is because of the US Army. The army taught me things my mother and father couldn't, and probably would not have if they could have.

Not to misquote you but many of my friends that enlisted strait out of high school are even more disrespectful lowlifes than when they left. I have met and thanked many men that have served and turned out to be great examples of our military also. Just sayin it does not work for everyone.

BTW, my sister served for four years and is now in a bitter divorce that has produced to kids while she was enlisted. Her soon to be divorced husband was also in the army and was AWOL for sometime.

Steve
05-31-2009, 10:17 PM
Are you saying defense contractors in a mercinary sense?

I'm asking that if you support the draft of people into the military, then do you support the drafting of people to work in defense plants building weapons and such.

Jacob Hawkes
05-31-2009, 11:14 PM
First of all, that is exactly what the military is suppose to teach you, from day one. It teaches you that you don't have to respect the person, but respect the "rank" or seniority that person has. And it damn well is suppose to teach you discipline, or aleast embed in you a stronger sense of dicipline. As far as failure goes, ask Israel if it is failing them. The worst thing it could do is instill some sort of love for country that soooooo many people are missing today. I was raised in a loving home with both parents and a sister, my dad is retired military. But I am what I am today is because of the US Army. The army taught me things my mother and father couldn't, and probably would not have if they could have.

I don't agree with the entire respect the rank BS. If you're a douchebag you're a douchebag. I met some of my closest friends and great people. I also met some real POSes. Your upbringing can give you a lot more respect and what not than anything a military experience can. Completely on the other side of the topic.

Jacob Hawkes
05-31-2009, 11:18 PM
I'm asking that if you support the draft of people into the military, then do you support the drafting of people to work in defense plants building weapons and such.

Nah. Don't agree with drafting for that either.

Wild Sky
06-01-2009, 02:58 PM
Then again it could easily make things worse because now you have people doing that against their will and will certainly call the hypocrisy out when they experience it. You're asking for guaranteed failure. I'm sorry but the military isn't suppose to teach you respect & or discipline. That's what your family or guardian should do.



With society becoming so liberal in the last 30 yrs many parents have failed to teach Respect or Discipline. Let parents parent there kids not the schools, shrinks, social services. A little bit of whoop azzz won't hurt anyone
Kids have No Fear of suffering for there actions these days.

Jim

Tville
06-01-2009, 05:05 PM
Draft -- I'm not hot on that. Too many dodgers. My preference has always been 2yrs of UMT
No questions asked, no exemptions, Everyone- male, female, transgender (and anyother label you can think of), physically fit and physically challanged. Check out Switzerland and Israel.

road kill
06-01-2009, 05:07 PM
I got drafted and look how I turned out........wait a minute, never mind!!;)

Marvin S
06-01-2009, 06:44 PM
Enlisted rather than be drafted so I could have a choice about branch. Did give up an athletic scholarship but by the time I got out my goals had changed so became an engineer rather than a coach.

I don't believe a year of training minimum along with some productive endeavor would do harm to anyone. Israel has a good model, but I believe we had a good model with the CCC camps which could be done after basic.

Voted YES

road kill
06-01-2009, 07:11 PM
Enlisted rather than be drafted so I could have a choice about branch. Did give up an athletic scholarship but by the time I got out my goals had changed so became an engineer rather than a coach.

I don't believe a year of training minimum along with some productive endeavor would do harm to anyone. Israel has a good model, but I believe we had a good model with the CCC camps which could be done after basic.

Voted YES
That is more accurately what happened to me as well.
Football at NEMO State, lost deferrment, got notice, joined USCG!!

Cody Covey
06-01-2009, 07:55 PM
difference between mandatory military service and the draft? Sounds like one is just more politically correct than the other.