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Roger Perry
07-11-2009, 09:40 AM
Report: Too few officials knew of surveillance

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_DOMESTIC_SURVEILLANCE?SITE=FLPAP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-07-11-10-01-38
By PAMELA HESS
Associated Press Writer

The Bush White House pulled in a great quantity of information far beyond the warrantless wiretapping previously acknowledged, the IGs reported.

George Bush wouldn't trample on the very same Constitution he swore an oath to protect when he took office. Would he? Naaaaa not our Georgie boy. Say it isn't so.

The inspectors general interviewed more than 200 people inside and outside the government, but five former Bush administration officials refused to be questioned. They were Ashcroft, Yoo, former CIA Director George Tenet, former White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card and David Addington, an aide to former Vice President Dick Cheney.

Why would these people refuse to be questioned? Couldn't be they did anything illegal could it?

Maybe a special prosecutor should be brought in to investigate.

IowaBayDog
07-11-2009, 10:04 AM
Its called Executive Privilige.


Instead of worrying about ancient history we should probably be more concerned with the current administration firing Inspector Generals without cause. Now we don't even have independent folks to ask these types of questions, the few that have so far have been fired.

Roger Perry
07-11-2009, 10:22 AM
Its called Executive Privilige.


Instead of worrying about ancient history we should probably be more concerned with the current administration firing Inspector Generals without cause. Now we don't even have independent folks to ask these types of questions, the few that have so far have been fired.


Actually this is not ancient news. The report just came out yesterday. ;)

As for executive privilege, if they go before a senate hearing they will have to tell all or go to jail.

luvalab
07-11-2009, 10:39 AM
What you are calling "ancient history" seems instead to be "most recent precedent."

THAT'S why worry.

I agree we should be worried about the present as well. But if in denying the (immediate) past we miss what might be (is probably) still going on, we are fools.

dnf777
07-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Its called Executive Privilige.


Instead of worrying about ancient history we should probably be more concerned with the current administration firing Inspector Generals without cause. Now we don't even have independent folks to ask these types of questions, the few that have so far have been fired.

Ancient history? Not if illegal policies are still in effect. Dems or repubs aren't immune from power grabbing, and I'm tired of seeing the Constitution being eroded.

You're right about not having independent folks...after Gonzales et al selectively fired US Attorneys who weren't going after democrats with enough vim. If you think letting people politicize the justice department, and dismantle the Bill of Rights is "ancient history" that needs to be swept under the oval office rug......we're in BIG trouble.

road kill
07-11-2009, 10:57 AM
Ancient history? Not if illegal policies are still in effect. Dems or repubs aren't immune from power grabbing, and I'm tired of seeing the Constitution being eroded.

You're right about not having independent folks...after Gonzales et al selectively fired US Attorneys who weren't going after democrats with enough vim. If you think letting people politicize the justice department, and dismantle the Bill of Rights is "ancient history" that needs to be swept under the oval office rug......we're in BIG trouble.


Finally, we agree!!

luvalab
07-11-2009, 11:00 AM
Finally, we agree!!

If you are focusing exclusively on what you have emphasized, methinks you are missing the point, sir...

dnf777
07-11-2009, 11:01 AM
Finally, we agree!!

Maybe for different reason, but what the heck? If I weren't on call this w/e, I'd break open a cold one with ya! Have a good one....

road kill
07-11-2009, 11:06 AM
Maybe for different reason, but what the heck? If I weren't on call this w/e, I'd break open a cold one with ya! Have a good one....
A sense of humor is essential.
I will be riding the H-D to a car show today and watching my favorite band this evening.
There is likely to be an adult beverage or 2 consumed.
I will raise 1 to your sense of humor this morning, even though I evidently "missed the point!":(

luvalab
07-11-2009, 11:12 AM
A sense of humor is essential.
I will be riding the H-D to a car show today and watching my favorite band this evening.
There is likely to be an adult beverage or 2 consumed.
I will raise 1 to your sense of humor this morning, even though I evidently "missed the point!":(

Don't blame Dnf777; that was me. Please promise me you'll drink to him without the frowny face--I hate to see good beverage drunk in sadness.

(To be fair, I think I miss a whole lot of points on here myself.......) :D

IowaBayDog
07-12-2009, 07:30 AM
Ancient history? Not if illegal policies are still in effect. Dems or repubs aren't immune from power grabbing, and I'm tired of seeing the Constitution being eroded.

You're right about not having independent folks...after Gonzales et al selectively fired US Attorneys who weren't going after democrats with enough vim. If you think letting people politicize the justice department, and dismantle the Bill of Rights is "ancient history" that needs to be swept under the oval office rug......we're in BIG trouble.

US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President, IGs do not, there is a huge difference. So you are calling for major investigations here, if some Bush hold over US Attorney doesn't go after Bush's guys with enough "vim" should Obomo keep them in place or fire them? If Obomo fires some Attorneys I'm sure you will be equalled outraged?

We're in BIG trouble cause some morons who voted for Hope and Change are willing to drool over one hand investigating Bush while the other goes ten steps further to erode the constitution.

As to the original question:
Why would these people refuse to be questioned? Couldn't be they did anything illegal could it?

Maybe they had better things to do than let someone go on a fishing expedition into their past. Scooter Libby can probably relate to that. 200 people interviewed and the story is 6 didn't interview. Guess they didn't get a whole hell of alot out of the other 200 or that might have been the story.

Roger Perry
07-12-2009, 08:29 AM
US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President, IGs do not, there is a huge difference. So you are calling for major investigations here, if some Bush hold over US Attorney doesn't go after Bush's guys with enough "vim" should Obomo keep them in place or fire them? If Obomo fires some Attorneys I'm sure you will be equalled outraged?



I would expect him to fire incompetent attorneys. Not just REPUBLICAN attorneys because they would not go after republicans and insert democratic attorneys to do his dirty work.

dnf777
07-12-2009, 08:42 AM
US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President, IGs do not, there is a huge difference. So you are calling for major investigations here, if some Bush hold over US Attorney doesn't go after Bush's guys with enough "vim" should Obomo keep them in place or fire them? If Obomo fires some Attorneys I'm sure you will be equalled outraged?

We're in BIG trouble cause some morons who voted for Hope and Change are willing to drool over one hand investigating Bush while the other goes ten steps further to erode the constitution.

As to the original question:
Why would these people refuse to be questioned? Couldn't be they did anything illegal could it?

Maybe they had better things to do than let someone go on a fishing expedition into their past. Scooter Libby can probably relate to that. 200 people interviewed and the story is 6 didn't interview. Guess they didn't get a whole hell of alot out of the other 200 or that might have been the story.

Ditto to Perry's reply. That answered that perfectly. The justice dept has always been held above politics until last regime. Now we hear Bush was encouraging a near-comatose Ashcroft to renew wiretapping policies, prior to the dems caving in and granting legislation. ALL americans, not just dems or reps should be outraged at that. Now we're hearing our new CIA director didn't even know the extent of covert programs? Thank God that's over....but yes, we have more power-grabbing to guard against.

Hew
07-12-2009, 08:59 PM
The justice dept has always been held above politics until last regime.
LMAO. Dude. Really. Were you aware that Atty. General Bobby Kennedy was President John F. Kennedy's brother? Perhaps you've heard of Watergate? Iran-Contra? Maybe google "Clinton fires 93 US Attorneys."

dnf777
07-13-2009, 09:12 AM
LMAO. Dude. Really. Were you aware that Atty. General Bobby Kennedy was President John F. Kennedy's brother? Perhaps you've heard of Watergate? Iran-Contra? Maybe google "Clinton fires 93 US Attorneys."

oh boy, where to start....

Do you think the justice dept curried favor with Nixon??

Presidents can appoint federal prosecutors, and usually do, in batches when they take office. Not selectively and punitevely, for not selectively prosecuting thy opponent!

It's ok to control lady justice, disregard congress, and conduct operations counter to the bill of rights......so long as we don't mind living under a King again. Our executive branch has notoriously grabbed power whenever , however it could. All presidents are guilty of that. The last one, made no bones at all about skirting congress, and rewriting rules that have been in place for decades to protect us. This one will too. At least try. Congress needs to grow a pair and stand up for their branch of our gov't.

Hew
07-13-2009, 09:37 AM
It's ok to control lady justice, disregard congress, and conduct operations counter to the bill of rights......so long as we don't mind living under a King again.
I don't recall saying that. Even if that's what I wrote or believed, does that somehow give you an excuse to say whatever you want, whether factual or not, in rebuttal? In your zeal to seemingly trash all things Bush or even conservative (aside from the aspects of conservatism that protect your wallet and the prodigious taxes you've often reminded us that you pay) you seem to have a habit of extemporaneously throwing a bunch of fantasmic crap up against a wall to see what sticks. The notion that politics has never been a consideration in the Justice Dept. until Bush is just the latest in what's becoming an ever-increasing list.

dnf777
07-13-2009, 10:30 AM
I don't recall saying that. Even if that's what I wrote or believed, does that somehow give you an excuse to say whatever you want, whether factual or not, in rebuttal? In your zeal to seemingly trash all things Bush or even conservative (aside from the aspects of conservatism that protect your wallet and the prodigious taxes you've often reminded us that you pay) you seem to have a habit of extemporaneously throwing a bunch of fantasmic crap up against a wall to see what sticks. The notion that politics has never been a consideration in the Justice Dept. until Bush is just the latest in what's becoming an ever-increasing list.

You didn't say that. I did.

You have turned this very personal, and as such, I am ending my participation in this discussion with you rather than return personal attacks. That is not why I joined the RTF.

I am always happy to discuss dogs, or civil politics, and you have the last word on this one.

No hard feelings.

dback
07-13-2009, 11:10 AM
http://www.emotty.com/images/emoticons/988.png

HEW go to your room....you were mean...
http://www.emotty.com/images/emoticons/1052.png (http://www.emotty.com/emoticon/327/smiley-gets-squashed-by-a-brick)


LOL.......

OH Lord....please let 777 be a Big 10 football fan...... I'll be able to afford a 'Grady' pup when my Orville Redenbacher stock sky-rockets. :-) :-) :-)

Roger Perry
07-13-2009, 11:21 AM
And to think I didn't like the Bush administration:

Doug Thompson

Bush & Cheney are traitors: Treat them as such (http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/18720)
July 13, 2009 - 7:13am. Forgive and forget my ass. It's time to investigate, prosecute and jail former President George W. Bush, former Veep Dick Cheney and other co-conspirators of the most corrupt, scandal-ridden administration in history.
Revelations over the weekend that Bush's domestic spying program was more widespread and illegal than previously thought and confirmation that Cheney ordered the CIA to lie to Congress are more than just the final nails in that administration's coffin. They are proof positive that Bush and his cronies routinely ignored the law and shredded the Constitution.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/18720

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/18717

dnf777
07-13-2009, 11:31 AM
LOL.......

OH Lord....please let 777 be a Big 10 football fan...... I'll be able to afford a 'Grady' pup when my Orville Redenbacher stock sky-rockets. :-) :-) :-)

Sorry to disappoint....when I left College Station, we'd just played the Cotton Bowl, and I vowed not to let College Football rule my life. Took the 12-steps, and am too afraid of relapsing!

Pete
07-13-2009, 11:41 AM
Most politians are traitors. So whats your point:confused:

Pete

badbullgator
07-13-2009, 11:52 AM
And to think I didn't like the Bush administration:

Doug Thompson

Bush & Cheney are traitors: Treat them as such (http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/18720)
July 13, 2009 - 7:13am.Forgive and forget my ass. It's time to investigate, prosecute and jail former President George W. Bush, former Veep Dick Cheney and other co-conspirators of the most corrupt, scandal-ridden administration in history.
Revelations over the weekend that Bush's domestic spying program was more widespread and illegal than previously thought and confirmation that Cheney ordered the CIA to lie to Congress are more than just the final nails in that administration's coffin. They are proof positive that Bush and his cronies routinely ignored the law and shredded the Constitution.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/18720

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/18717


OF course Roger doesn’t see any slant in things that he posts. Good journalism in both posts…..
Here is a tip Rog, when a “news” story starts out with “forgive and forget my ass” or “George Bush wouldn't trample on the very same Constitution he swore an oath to protect when he took office. Would he? Naaaaa not our Georgie boy. Say it isn't so.”
IT MIGHT BE JUST A BIT BIAS DON’T YOU THINK

Roger Perry
07-13-2009, 12:00 PM
Most politians are traitors. So whats your point:confused:

Pete

I was not trying to make a point. It was not my article that was quoted.

And why would you say most politicians are traitors. I don't find that to be true.

K G
07-13-2009, 12:08 PM
G W Bush back in the news

Imagine my surprise when I saw this headline and who posted it....:cool:

kg

brandywinelabs
07-13-2009, 12:20 PM
I'm a little skeptical of this. In light of what Pelosi just went through. Is it an attempt to derail her problems. In my hippie years, I had a big mistrust of the govt. But I think I can go along with this since it appears that this was used to keep us safe. Perhaps it was a good thing. Everyone in congress, etc. doesn't have the "need to know" about everything about the security of our country. Too me it is not any place as bad as what went on with B Frank and the mortgage industry. Is it as bad as the pork that gets into the bills? Or voting on bills you haven't even read? Or the govt owning the auto industry? I don't think so. Sometimes there are things that are just better left untouched. I think, if what they are saying about all of this is true, that perhaps this was done for the general good of the country! Let sleeping dogs lie.

dnf777
07-13-2009, 12:23 PM
Hew,
No hard feelings. If it weren't so darn nice out, and if I didn't just come off a long weekend call, I'd stay and sling some more fantasmic mud. We're showing 67 in the shade, with lots of sun and breeze...ditto of yesterday, 'cept I'm a free man today!

The good thing about politics is...if you don't like it, check back in a few years...that pendulum keeps swingin'.

Roger Perry
07-13-2009, 12:29 PM
I don't make up stories. That was a news article last Friday.

By the way, if you read the story
Leading Democrats want Bush era abuses probed

July 13, 2009 - 6:29am.

You will see that Obama wants to sweep everything under the rug.


Obama has resisted an effort by congressional Democrats to establish a "truth commission," saying the nation should be "looking forward and not backwards."

Pete
07-13-2009, 12:55 PM
And why would you say most politicians are traitors. I don't find that to be true


Well I don't have to think very hard for that. Aside from being in bed with foriegn entities,,,,,,Nafta,, Intercontinetal rocket tecn. for campain money,, and the list is endless but I will just give you 1 biggy.
Their neglect to protect our borders and to let pretty much anything through and then subsidize those that do make it. Globalism is treason.

They lie and lack testicles,,, They mostly are meally mouthed little weasles. and I would spit on most of them if they offered their hand to me .

There probably are some honest ones who will not cover their ass if threatened.
I consider anyone in bed with the enemy and compromising our constitution on the same level as the person who sells our enemies our national security secrets. They are the same level of scum or worse.

Your friend with the big ears included

Thats why.

Pete