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road kill
07-31-2009, 01:01 PM
Has evidently run in to a myriad of administrative issues, may have to shut down!!

http://wcbstv.com/consumer/cash.clunkers.success.2.1108544.html


GARSHK!!!

Can't wait to see how the do with

HEALTH CARE!!:shock:

badbullgator
07-31-2009, 01:20 PM
I think that mostly the car dealers are the ones benefiting form the whole thing. They are selling cars, but you know good and well that probably half of the money is being stolen by the dealers on the trade in. Car dealers tend to be a honest bunch you know.

brandywinelabs
07-31-2009, 01:23 PM
Has evidently run in to a myriad of administrative issues, may have to shut down!!

http://wcbstv.com/consumer/cash.clunkers.success.2.1108544.html


GARSHK!!!

Can't wait to see how the do with

HEALTH CARE!!:shock:

That is exactly what a car dealer said in an interview on TV last night.

NO BHO CARE!

AARRGH!!!:mad:

Hew
07-31-2009, 01:49 PM
I was and am definately not in favor of Cash for Clunkers. That said, it has probably done more to stimulate the economy than all the programs in the Porkulus package combined...and the effects of it were immediate and widespread. If they were smart they'd pull money out of the Porkulus program and use it to satisfy the Cash for Clunkers demand. And since they're dead set on mortgaging our future to buy our way out of recession now then they oughta convert more of the Porkulus package into similar Cash for... programs. Cash for Old Boats. Cash for Old Decoys. Cash for Washed up Retrievers. Cash for Dysplastic Dogs. etc.

Goose
07-31-2009, 02:02 PM
How about Cash for Lunch at the White House!!

Did you see where the White House is charging business leaders for lunch? White House staffers are collecting credit card numbers from executives and billing them for the cost of the meal with the President.

I wonder if President Nifong charged the cop and the professor for their beer?

badbullgator
07-31-2009, 02:02 PM
I was and am definately not in favor of Cash for Clunkers. That said, it has probably done more to stimulate the economy than all the programs in the Porkulus package combined...and the effects of it were immediate and widespread. If they were smart they'd pull money out of the Porkulus program and use it to satisfy the Cash for Clunkers demand. And since they're dead set on mortgaging our future to buy our way out of recession now then they oughta convert more of the Porkulus package into similar Cash for... programs. Cash for Old Boats. Cash for Old Decoys. Cash for Washed up Retrievers. Cash for Dysplastic Dogs. etc.


Hummm....how old would the boat have to be. Mine is about 5 now and I would love a gov upgrade:D. What about for EIC dogs? Labradoodles?

Gerry Clinchy
07-31-2009, 02:18 PM
Also to note ... increased car sales = a good chunk of change into State revenues from sales tax.

And what about cash incentives for other capital investments for conserving energy? Upgrading a heating/cooling system? There is a Federal 30% tax credit for solar and wind additions ... but even taking out old "clunker" oil and gas furnaces would be a big help. There are natural gas furnaces that are 98% efficient, but they are considerably more expensive than those less efficient. Why not give people the "difference" if they install the more expensive, but about 12% more efficient furnace?

I guess they saw one thing from this ... money talks ... I'm sure you all know the rest of that phrase :-)

Franco
07-31-2009, 02:25 PM
Here is the deal...

The Goobs set aside 1 billion for C for C, figuring on average that would cover 250,000 new vehicle sales. The program started on 7/24 and dealers had already delivered 25,000 units with an estimated 20,000 deals still in progress. The goobs got scared that by the end of the weekend that they would go over the 250,000 units. Basically, they paniced and pulled the plug on the incentives for 14 hours. I would expect all the original 1 billion gone by the 15th of August.

The clunkers, when taken in by the dealerships must have the engines perminently frozen by running a chemical in them for 20 minutes. Then, the non-drivable clunker is sold to a scarp yard and that scrap money goes back to the goobs.

To qualify;
Must prove insurance and ownership of the clunker for one year.
Must be a 1985 or newer model.
The new vehicle must get better than 22 mpg's
The clunker must get 17 mpg's or less.

The goobs are promising the dealers that they will get thier money in less than 30 days(3,500-4,500 depending on the clunker).
I think the panic came when the goobs realized that they would have to send actual money to the dealers and not just some try of paper credit.

Henry V
07-31-2009, 02:25 PM
......
And what about cash incentives for other capital investments for conserving energy? Upgrading a heating/cooling system? There is a Federal 30% tax credit for solar and wind additions ... but even taking out old "clunker" oil and gas furnaces would be a big help. There are natural gas furnaces that are 98% efficient, but they are considerably more expensive than those less efficient. Why not give people the "difference" if they install the more expensive, but about 12% more efficient furnace?

I guess they saw one thing from this ... money talks ... I'm sure you all know the rest of that phrase :-)
In the interest of providing some additional information, perhap you should take a look at http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=tax_credits.tx_index. Also, check with your local utilities and state energy offices. They have rebates in addition to the federal ones sometimes. There are all sorts of rebates, etc, for changing heating systems, upgrading refrigerators, etc. I even think much of this stuff originated or was increased under a previous administration. Imagine that.

Gerry Clinchy
07-31-2009, 03:55 PM
In the interest of providing some additional information, perhap you should take a look at http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=tax_credits.tx_index. Also, check with your local utilities and state energy offices. They have rebates in addition to the federal ones sometimes. There are all sorts of rebates, etc, for changing heating systems, upgrading refrigerators, etc. I even think much of this stuff originated or was increased under a previous administration. Imagine that.


Yes, I have checked this out. Pennsylvania is not giving any credits for anything except geothermal systems, which, in these parts would cost a minimum of $25K. Also there are some rebates for schools and municipal buildings, but not as much for consumers.

I sort of wonder why the $4500 rebate thing is working so well. It has been common for local dealers to offer the same thing at $3000. Also more effective with cars because of their shorter life span. If someone put in a new heating system 3 years ago, they expect it to last 15 or 20 years, so the incentive to replace it would have to be greater.

dnf777
07-31-2009, 04:22 PM
I was and am definately not in favor of Cash for Clunkers. That said, it has probably done more to stimulate the economy than all the programs in the Porkulus package combined...and the effects of it were immediate and widespread. If they were smart they'd pull money out of the Porkulus program and use it to satisfy the Cash for Clunkers demand. And since they're dead set on mortgaging our future to buy our way out of recession now then they oughta convert more of the Porkulus package into similar Cash for... programs. Cash for Old Boats. Cash for Old Decoys. Cash for Washed up Retrievers. Cash for Dysplastic Dogs. etc.

I just heard on the radio a Ford spokesman saying how successful the program has been. Ran out of money already, and dealers have customers on waiting lists ready to buy when (if) more funding becomes available.

I remember hearing people complain when the gov't gave GM $24 billion, and some to the other automakers. The argument I heard was that it would be better to give the money to the PEOPLE, and let them use it to buy cars, instead of just hand it over to the big 3. Well, that's essentially what CFC has done, with the added stipulation that we get energy inefficient cars off the roads in turn for efficient ones. The same people are now complaining again?! Some people you just can't please no matter what.

road kill
07-31-2009, 04:25 PM
I just heard on the radio a Ford spokesman saying how successful the program has been. Ran out of money already, and dealers have customers on waiting lists ready to buy when (if) more funding becomes available.

I remember hearing people complain when the gov't gave GM $24 billion, and some to the other automakers. The argument I heard was that it would be better to give the money to the PEOPLE, and let them use it to buy cars, instead of just hand it over to the big 3. Well, that's essentially what CFC has done, with the added stipulation that we get energy inefficient cars off the roads in turn for efficient ones. The same people are now complaining again?! Some people you just can't please no matter what.
My complaint is about the management of the program.

BTW---Who is paying for this??

K G
07-31-2009, 07:21 PM
My complaint is about the management of the program.

BTW---Who is paying for this??

For my part, I'm "thrilled" to be helping to loan $3 billion so folks can buy a new car......:rolleyes:

"Giddy" regards,

kg

dnf777
07-31-2009, 07:37 PM
My complaint is about the management of the program.

BTW---Who is paying for this??

We the taxpayers are paying for it. I'd rather keep my money, but if the gov't is going to spend it, I'd rather help a family into a new Ford or Chevy, than building bridges in Iraq or putting defense contractors into Bentleys.

Goose
07-31-2009, 08:00 PM
The Chinese are paying for this. We're broke.

road kill
07-31-2009, 08:04 PM
The Chinese are paying for this. We're broke.

BAM!!!

stan b

dnf777
07-31-2009, 08:36 PM
The Chinese are paying for this. We're broke.

If that's true, then we're accruing more debt, that in my mind, will need to be payed by us someday. Again, I'd rather help my fellow Americans than Iraqi politicians!

Franco
07-31-2009, 08:37 PM
Actually, it would be money we are borrowing from foreign countries that we will eventually default on.

However, for this expense they'll probably just print a BILLION plus.

The real clunkers are being driven by those that can't take advantage of the $3,500-$4,500 Gov assistance and $4,000 factory rebates because they have bad credit.

Will the current goobs now provide them with financing too?

Goose
07-31-2009, 11:09 PM
The Keynesian approach to economics...government spending money it doesn't have!!

He's such a witch doctor.

Blackstone
07-31-2009, 11:58 PM
I think that mostly the car dealers are the ones benefiting form the whole thing. They are selling cars, but you know good and well that probably half of the money is being stolen by the dealers on the trade in. Car dealers tend to be a honest bunch you know.

The dealer can't steal the trade on this deal. First, most of the vehicles being turned in aren't worth $4500. All of that goes to the customer, and is put toward a new vehicle. Plus the dealer doesn't get to keep the traded in vehicle. The engine has to be disabled, and the vehicle has to be scrapped.

One interesting thing I heard from 3 different dealers was that several of the customer that came in had vehicles that did not qualify for the program. When they found out, they decided to buy a new car anyway. I guess they were bitten by the new car bug, and had to have one.

Bruce MacPherson
08-01-2009, 11:56 AM
Just another way to get people to spend more than they can afford with money they don't have. Haven't we been here before?

Nor_Cal_Angler
08-01-2009, 02:23 PM
Just another way to get people to spend more than they can afford with money they don't have. Haven't we been here before?

BINGO, first one to say it...

you beat me to it...

I cant believe people are overlooking the real issue here. You are giving up a running vehicle probally paid off, and getting 4500 dollars of your (and my) own money to put towards the purchase of a vehicle that will have a balance owed on it upwards of 20000 dollars. The government is putting us (as a nation) in further debt by the minute and asking you or teasing you with this idea all the while putting you in DEBT (now personally)further.

On top of that they distroy a running vehicle, scraping the motor and metal sending it to CHINA, where they melt it down and turn it into something workable to SELL BACK TO US...PUTTING US MORE IN DEBT.....

It makes no sense and pisses me off....

give me your working vehicle, I'll give you a nice new credit debt (in these days) you probally dont need...I'll stick the bill on the american people, then give another country the oppertunity to turn our RETARDED idea into a chance make money off of...

what was wrong with the system we had...You trade in your car..I give you a price for it, you use that towards another vehicle, plus any incentives I have (ie..2500,3000,5000 off or 0.0 financing for 60 mo.) purchase a new vehicle and THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NCA

dnf777
08-01-2009, 03:01 PM
what was wrong with the system we had...You trade in your car..I give you a price for it, you use that towards another vehicle, plus any incentives I have (ie..2500,3000,5000 off or 0.0 financing for 60 mo.) purchase a new vehicle and THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NCA

What??? You gotta be kidding, right???

Let's see, $24 billion of our tax money to GM, billions to Chrysler/Dodge....both in bankrupcy, allowed to welch on investors and creditors, forcing those people to bankrupcy....all the gripes I've heard on this forum......And now you ask "WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THAT SYSTEM???"

ROTFLMFAO!!!

Nor_Cal_Angler
08-01-2009, 06:48 PM
What??? You gotta be kidding, right???NOPE

Let's see, $24 billion of our tax money to GM Didnt have anything to do with trade-ins or the system of trade-ins, billions to Chrysler/Dodge never should have happened, again doesnt have anything to do with the trade-in system....both in bankrupcy not our fault, and this new idea makes the "people" hurt more", allowed to welch on investors and creditors thats just bad business, again has nothing to do with the trade-in system, forcing those people to bankrupcy.those people shouldnt have loaned the money to a bad business model, again nothing to do with the trade-in system...all the gripes I've heard on this forum currently 90 percent justified......And now you ask "WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THAT SYSTEM???"Yes I am asking what was wrong with the TRADE IN SYSTEM, that was in place.

ROTFLMFAO!!!

ROTFLMFAO all you want, but the TRADE-IN system did not need help...the UAW that BANKRUPTED the auto indurtry, the HORRIBLE product line that was produced, and the TERRIBLE business model that the american auto industry relied on is the PROBLEM with the system....

giving people 4000 dollars towards the purchase of a vehicle they probally shouldnt have, further putting people in DEBT...is not a wise idea.

housing market regards,

NCA

road kill
08-01-2009, 07:14 PM
What??? You gotta be kidding, right???

Let's see, $24 billion of our tax money to GM, billions to Chrysler/Dodge....both in bankrupcy, allowed to welch on investors and creditors, forcing those people to bankrupcy....all the gripes I've heard on this forum......And now you ask "WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THAT SYSTEM???"

ROTFLMFAO!!!

If "that system" was left alone, one of the weaker companies would be gone because they can't compete.

The Feds had no business getting involved.

dnf777
08-02-2009, 07:47 AM
If "that system" was left alone, one of the weaker companies would be gone because they can't compete.

The Feds had no business getting involved.

No argument there. Big business wants capitalism and to be left alone when the money is coming in....when it's going out, all the sudden they want to socialize the loss, and have big brother infuse some cash?? Quite convenient.

Just last night we had an outdoor concert at a neighbors house. One couple, middle-class (teacher, factory worker) said they just bought a new car with the CFC program. He said they probably wouldn't have, it not for the extra trade in value under the program. Nobody scorned him. We all know he busts his butt working, and so does she. I'd MUCH rather see my tax money going to help a neighbor than to Haliburton execs or Iraqi infrastructure!

I believe what's good for the small guy is good for the corporation. Nobody is "too big" to fail. But if we ARE going to help GM, Ford, etc...I'd rather see the money go through the small guy on the way to the big company. More bang for the buck. Just think if that $24 billion last year went through a CFC program. Hell, I'd probably have a new truck.

Gerry Clinchy
08-02-2009, 10:47 AM
Based on a TV ad I saw yesterday, Ford (I think) was giving the $4500 ... in addition to the rebate they already had in place.

What happens if the car you're trading in is worth more than $4500, even though it gets less than the mileage requirement?

Why won't they accept a vehicle older than 1985? Some of those clunkers are much less fuel efficient, more polluting, and possibly worth more in scrap value (heavier & more metal) than some of those after 1985?

dnf777
08-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Based on a TV ad I saw yesterday, Ford (I think) was giving the $4500 ... in addition to the rebate they already had in place.

What happens if the car you're trading in is worth more than $4500, even though it gets less than the mileage requirement?

Why won't they accept a vehicle older than 1985? Some of those clunkers are much less fuel efficient, more polluting, and possibly worth more in scrap value (heavier & more metal) than some of those after 1985?

To stop people from going out in the woods and loading rust carcasses onto flatbeds and wanting money for them. ie to preclude abuses. Also, as another poster pointed out, "most people can't afford them anyway"...this will limit some of that behavior. Both ends of the candle are being burnt here. The program appears to have been well thought out, and was a victim of it's own success. Hopefully, if our dear government sees fit to give corporate welfare, it will at least pass through and benefit the hands of the working class first.

From what I've heard from car dealers, neighbors, and economists, this program has been a rare success.

Franco
08-03-2009, 06:03 PM
Looks like the gooberment is adding one or two billion more to the program which started out as a one billion program. One thing we can count on from the goobs, if they say something will cost a dollar, bet on it costing 10 dollars.

And, anyone that thinks the gooberment will be divested of Gooberment Motors by 2012, keep dreaming.


http://nada.org/ National Automotive Dealers Assc.
For the skinny on the subject;

badbullgator
08-03-2009, 07:02 PM
The dealer can't steal the trade on this deal. First, most of the vehicles being turned in aren't worth $4500. All of that goes to the customer, and is put toward a new vehicle. Plus the dealer doesn't get to keep the traded in vehicle. The engine has to be disabled, and the vehicle has to be scrapped.

One interesting thing I heard from 3 different dealers was that several of the customer that came in had vehicles that did not qualify for the program. When they found out, they decided to buy a new car anyway. I guess they were bitten by the new car bug, and had to have one.

Where there is a will there is a way.
No haggle pricing regards

road kill
08-03-2009, 07:05 PM
Where is the $4,500 coming from??

Oh yeah, taxes, it's just more wealth redistribution.

Eric Johnson
08-03-2009, 08:50 PM
I heard from a very prominent dealer today. He's in this program but is skeptical of it doing much good. One thing he did mention is that the instructions for this reasonably simpe program are in a 136 page book! Imagine what healthcare will require.

Eric

Franco
08-03-2009, 08:59 PM
I heard from a very prominent dealer today. He's in this program but is skeptical of it doing much good. One thing he did mention is that the instructions for this reasonably simpe program are in a 136 page book! Imagine what healthcare will require.

Eric

The dealers around here are slammed busy and had huge weekend sales. Between the a local Ford and Chevy store the did close to 100 deals in two days. What they are concerned with is getting the cash from the gooberment because they are letting the cars roll based on meeting all the criteria.

Yes, the paperwork is lenghty because of all the documentation for the trade-in vehicles they have to perminently immobilize. The VIN numbers have to be verified, 1 years proof of insurance, current drivers license etc.

As others have mention, I'd rather see our tax dollars go for this then wasted on bureacratic bs which the Obama administration has an ample supply of.

dnf777
08-03-2009, 09:06 PM
As others have mention, I'd rather see our tax dollars go for this then wasted on bureacratic bs which the Obama administration has an ample supply of.

Or Haliburton execs in the form of non-competitive bids. Or AIG execs in their Hawiian summer homes.

Hoosier
08-03-2009, 09:39 PM
Or Haliburton execs in the form of non-competitive bids. Or AIG execs in their Hawiian summer homes.

Or abortions in other countries, or money for the Palestinians to buy bombs I mean rebuild.

Julie R.
08-03-2009, 11:16 PM
I wonder which Obongo friend owns this company? Nice windfall... speaking of non competitive bids... http://www.castlepackspower.com/Catalog/ClunkerBomb/

1st retriever
08-03-2009, 11:28 PM
Sorry I like my clunkers! I have come to like the oil stains in the driveway, adding oil every couple days, and the awful gas mileage. They can have em over my dead body!:)