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mjh345
08-13-2009, 09:31 AM
I saw where FOX didn't cover Obamas Health Care Town Hall.
The anchor did announce that if and when the meeting got contentious, that FOX would then immediately cut away to it for live coverage of that part of the meeting.

Is that their version of "Fair and Balanced"?

road kill
08-13-2009, 09:34 AM
I saw where FOX didn't cover Obamas Health Care Town Hall.
The anchor did announce that if and when the meeting got contentious, that FOX would then immediately cut away to it for live coverage of that part of the meeting.

Is that their version of "Fair and Balanced"?
The NH thing was a set up, everybody knows that (except maybe you).
That was not NEWS, that was an infomercial.

Was that conference your idea of fair and balanced??
Not 1 dissenting voice to be heard.

Get real!

Buzz
08-13-2009, 09:46 AM
Yup, you sure wouldn't want to hear what the president has to say unless someone is yelling and screaming at him.

I recall people getting dragged out of Bush rallies because they had shirts on with print on them that wasn't approved right wing wear and people being put into protest zones that were nowhere near the rallies or the route in and out that Bush's motorcade was taking.

BonMallari
08-13-2009, 09:54 AM
what really shows on this board is where we get our information/news, those of you with more liberal views tend to quote MSNBC ,those of us with more conservative views quote Fox News

I watch O' Reilly and Glen Beck, while some of you are watching Keith Olberman...draw your own conclusions

road kill
08-13-2009, 09:59 AM
Yup, you sure wouldn't want to hear what the president has to say unless someone is yelling and screaming at him.

I recall people getting dragged out of Bush rallies because they had shirts on with print on them that wasn't approved right wing wear and people being put into protest zones that were nowhere near the rallies or the route in and out that Bush's motorcade was taking.

My bad, I thought you were talking about "the Obama's" infomercial, now I see it's about Bush bashing.:rolleyes:

Raymond Little
08-13-2009, 10:14 AM
Obummo, is and has been a continous "INFOMERCIAL".

Bob Gutermuth
08-13-2009, 10:19 AM
I for one, am glad Fox chose not to broadcast Fearless Leader and his propaganda, his bloviating is a waste of airtime.

mjh345
08-13-2009, 10:21 AM
The NH thing was a set up, everybody knows that (except maybe you).
That was not NEWS, that was an infomercial.

Was that conference your idea of fair and balanced??
Not 1 dissenting voice to be heard.

Get real!

I see your point Stan.
Seeing what the POTUS has to say regarding HC is not nearly as newsworthy as some of the stories they chose to cover. Such as whether or not some cop is pissed that his fellow officers are looking at his wife's Playboy pictorial, or the story about a bear swimming in a Calif swimmimg pool. Or whether or not Miley Cyrus was pole dancing, or whether or not some Oregon guy has A PANTY FETISH.

Why educate when you can titillate?

My answer to your question about whether that conference was fair and balanced is an obvious NO!! FOX didn't cover it so obviously it wasn't, as they are TRULY fair and balanced. After all they tell us that all the time
THEY REPORT WE DECIDE!!!

My question to you is why did FOX announce that they wouldn't cover the meeting. But they did announce ahead of time that if the event got contentious then they would cut away from their regularly scheduled "Fair & Balanced" coverage to only cover that part of the event.

Is that your version of a fair and balanced attitude towards "NEWS" coverage?

Mike Noel
08-13-2009, 10:40 AM
They probably didn't think it was newsworthy to broadcast the daughter of a big Obammy donor asking a question about "signs with mean words".

If you could not predict exactly what he was going to say then you haven't been paying attention to the news over the last few weeks, there really was no reason to watch it.

Someone wake me up when either side says something new.

K G
08-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Yup, you sure wouldn't want to hear what the president has to say unless someone is yelling and screaming at him.

I recall people getting dragged out of Bush rallies because they had shirts on with print on them that wasn't approved right wing wear and people being put into protest zones that were nowhere near the rallies or the route in and out that Bush's motorcade was taking.

That's it...justify the current with the past....that will get us somewhere in a hurry....:rolleyes:....someplace called "hell in a handbasket".........

But at least BHO supporters are predictable....and so is he....

Change in 2010 regards, ;-)

kg

Franco
08-13-2009, 12:24 PM
Media Bias?

I think all the major networks are biased and trying to serve thier viewers knowing they can't be everything to everyone.

Network news still has many more viewers than Cable News largely because they are available to more households.

Among Cable News, MSNBC nor CNN comes close to Fox News in total viewers. And, Fox News has no where near the total number of viewers of ABC, NBC or CBS.

I've grown tired of all the news since I can no longer get it straight, they all have to promote thier own political agandas. So now, when I turn the boob toob on, I do what many boobs do, watch ESPN for my news and get my other news from the internet!

P S No one can spin a story like Bill O'Reilly. I often wondered if he knows the subject being discussed.

Gun_Dog2002
08-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Why would they need to cover it? Can't they just get the transcript from the guy running the teleprompter?

/Paul

Buzz
08-13-2009, 01:43 PM
That's it...justify the current with the past....that will get us somewhere in a hurry....:rolleyes:....someplace called "hell in a handbasket".........

But at least BHO supporters are predictable....and so is he....

Change in 2010 regards, ;-)

kg

Last I saw, conservatives were defending their behavior at town hall meetings by claiming that they are not acting any differently than liberals have in the past.

K G
08-13-2009, 01:55 PM
Sorry, I must have missed that...I was too busy watching trainwrecks like Spector and the Senator from Missouri....and who was the one who answered her cell phone while taking a question from one of her constituents???:o:o:o

She needs to be sent home ASAP to stay regards,:mad:

kg

BonMallari
08-13-2009, 02:08 PM
The Congresswoman who answered her phone while they were asking question was none other than Sheila Jackson Lee (Dem) from (sad to admit) TEXAS...now they are trying to spin it and say she had called in to a help line or some bs excuse

Bill Billups
08-13-2009, 02:25 PM
Is the New Hampshire townhall the one where he claimed surgeons are paid "30,40,sometimes 50 thousand dollars" to amputate diabetic feet? That seems a little high since last I checked medicare pays me somewhere around 500 bucks and that price includes 3 months of postoperative care. I wish somebody would call him on that lie.

I've tried to be open minded but this is too much... blaming the docs for the high cost of medicine

Bill

TXduckdog
08-13-2009, 02:36 PM
Yup, you sure wouldn't want to hear what the president has to say unless someone is yelling and screaming at him.

I recall people getting dragged out of Bush rallies because they had shirts on with print on them that wasn't approved right wing wear and people being put into protest zones that were nowhere near the rallies or the route in and out that Bush's motorcade was taking.


DNC talking points.

Julie R.
08-13-2009, 02:49 PM
Why is it so important for all networks to give Obongo's town hall meetings even more media coverage? He's already been on prime time several times. It probably makes ratings drop to air his speeches in their entirety.

I will grant you that of our past presidents, I never thought Bush was a very engaging speaker. But at least he could answer questions off the cuff and at least he sounded the same whether reading from a speech or answering a question. But, I can't believe I ever thought Obongo was a good speaker. His first speech coach must've taught him a staccato pace with an occasional pregnant pause was how to give a speech. Or maybe the pregnant pause is while he's moving his lips to read the teleprompter. He sounds moar like a TV evangalist than the media whore that he is. Take him off script and he sounds like a buffoon. I don't see why any network needed to cover more than one of his Obongo-care speeches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

dnf777
08-13-2009, 02:49 PM
DNC talking points.

I'm afraid it's true. In the 'burgh here, we had a WWII vet detained by police for refusing to take his anti-Iraq war poster and tshirt to the "free speech zone", when W rolled through town.

As for media bias, it seems now the media is hounding Obama regarding a deal he cut with Pharma. (or accepted, not sure there's much difference)

blind ambition
08-13-2009, 03:53 PM
Is the New Hampshire townhall the one where he claimed surgeons are paid "30,40,sometimes 50 thousand dollars" to amputate diabetic feet? That seems a little high since last I checked medicare pays me somewhere around 500 bucks and that price includes 3 months of postoperative care. I wish somebody would call him on that lie.

I've tried to be open minded but this is too much... blaming the docs for the high cost of medicine

Bill

Perhaps you've been getting ripped off. I checked this hospital management site because I've had a hospital procedure in Oregon in 1990 which cost $3000.00 for a 2" skin graft and it would appear the man also got his figures from the guys who should know. They actually claim costs can go to $60,000 and nonsurgical treatment can run costs to $27,000. Please check this site out...you are being seriously under paid or something.
http://www.hospitalmanagement.net/features/feature627/

Buzz
08-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Blind Ambition, I see you're in Canada. How is your healthcare up there. I'd like to hear from someone who lives it.:confused:

blind ambition
08-13-2009, 05:04 PM
I love it but I think we are charged too little each month for our coverage.

My rate has been stuck at $35.00 a month for the last 30 odd years, any time I hear news that our system might be in peril I ask myself why don't they just raise the rates? Hell if I could afford $30 a month when I was first in the work force I could certainly pay ten times that now.
I cannot imagine the heart break of being a hard working citizen in a wealthy country like yours and not being able to afford coverage.

Buzz
08-13-2009, 05:33 PM
Thanks, I have in-laws in Winnipeg. They think we're nuts, and the get pretty hot under the collar when they see criticism of their system in the US media.

dnf777
08-13-2009, 05:48 PM
I love it but I think we are charged too little each month for our coverage.

My rate has been stuck at $35.00 a month for the last 30 odd years, any time I hear news that our system might be in peril I ask myself why don't they just raise the rates? Hell if I could afford $30 a month when I was first in the work force I could certainly pay ten times that now.
I cannot imagine the heart break of being a hard working citizen in a wealthy country like yours and not being able to afford coverage.

Wow! Those crickets you hear are because I bet alot of our jaws are still on the ground!

I took the liberty of doing a little math on your numbers. At $35/mon, for 30 years, your lifetime premium total to date is roughly the average cost for an American family health insurance policy for ONE YEAR, assuming no prior conditions or claims!!! (12,600)

In fairness though, am I correct in my understanding that your income tax (or total tax burden, however it's levied) is significantly higher than ours?

Very interesting discussion, thanks

Buzz
08-13-2009, 06:38 PM
I cannot imagine the heart break of being a hard working citizen in a wealthy country like yours and not being able to afford coverage.

Imagine the heartbreak of seeing your 50 year old cousin's husband loose his job in this current economic crisis. Then imagine them loosing their insurance because they couldn't afford the cobra payments, regardless of the fact that they and his employers paid into the insurance system since they were both 18 years old. Then imagine your cousin being diagnosed with breast cancer several months after not having any health insurance for the first time her 50 years on the planet. Then imagine them loosing everything they worked for in their 32 years together.

Well, I don't have to imagine it. It's happening to my cousin Linda. Makes a guy think really hard about moving his business and family to Canada.

Cody Covey
08-13-2009, 06:44 PM
crappy to hear Buzz and i am sorry but how is that anyone elses fault why should they be FORCED to pay for her cancer. If she wants to open up a fund at a local bank and people can donate that is fine but stealing someone elses money to take care of someone elses problem is hardly my idea of fair.

Buzz
08-13-2009, 06:56 PM
crappy to hear Buzz and i am sorry but how is that anyone elses fault why should they be FORCED to pay for her cancer. If she wants to open up a fund at a local bank and people can donate that is fine but stealing someone elses money to take care of someone elses problem is hardly my idea of fair.

So, I guess you believe that a system that leaves you high and dry because you loose a job after paying into it for 32 years is a good system?

luvalab
08-13-2009, 07:06 PM
crappy to hear Buzz and i am sorry but how is that anyone elses fault why should they be FORCED to pay for her cancer. If she wants to open up a fund at a local bank and people can donate that is fine but stealing someone elses money to take care of someone elses problem is hardly my idea of fair.

Because when SHE was healthy, she was paying for everyone else's healthcare through her insurance premiums.

This particular argument has to do with people who pay insurance being insured--not sick people stealing cash.

Mike Noel
08-13-2009, 07:31 PM
Wow! Those crickets you hear are because I bet alot of our jaws are still on the ground!

I took the liberty of doing a little math on your numbers. At $35/mon, for 30 years, your lifetime premium total to date is roughly the average cost for an American family health insurance policy for ONE YEAR, assuming no prior conditions or claims!!! (12,600)

In fairness though, am I correct in my understanding that your income tax (or total tax burden, however it's levied) is significantly higher than ours?

Very interesting discussion, thanks

I am interested as well in the answer to that tax question. In the numbers I could find a family of 4 pays twice the effective rate of taxes in Canada compared to the US. Additionally I would be curious to hear if Blind Ambition has ever experienced any delay in care for a diagnosis that led to a major procedure.

Franco
08-13-2009, 08:03 PM
Blind Ambition, I see you're in Canada. How is your healthcare up there.


One can't compare Canada to the USA. Canada doesn't have the millions of indigents and illegals to take care of.
It all boils down to a government takeover so that those with some money can pay for those without. Not that we already don't have charitable hospitals and health care, it is just that those that work and pay for health insurance shouldn't have better coverage than the wards of the state.I live in a large medical community, large for this part of the world and we are the medical hub for the state. Why are so many Canadians coming here for their health care?

I'm not saying that we don't need some insurance reform and Tort reform but the goobs taking over a business is a recipe for disaster.

road kill
08-13-2009, 08:18 PM
Imagine the heartbreak of seeing your 50 year old cousin's husband loose his job in this current economic crisis. Then imagine them loosing their insurance because they couldn't afford the cobra payments, regardless of the fact that they and his employers paid into the insurance system since they were both 18 years old. Then imagine your cousin being diagnosed with breast cancer several months after not having any health insurance for the first time her 50 years on the planet. Then imagine them loosing everything they worked for in their 32 years together.

Well, I don't have to imagine it. It's happening to my cousin Linda. Makes a guy think really hard about moving his business and family to Canada.

I have a comment I would like to make on this...I won't.

I happen to know that people don't get cancer, FAMILIES do.

I am so sorry to hear that news.
I hope it works out.
Some things are more important than the arguement/debate.

Our prayers are with your family!

stan b, the redhead & Elvis

TXduckdog
08-13-2009, 08:48 PM
Imagine the heartbreak of seeing your 50 year old cousin's husband loose his job in this current economic crisis. Then imagine them loosing their insurance because they couldn't afford the cobra payments, regardless of the fact that they and his employers paid into the insurance system since they were both 18 years old. Then imagine your cousin being diagnosed with breast cancer several months after not having any health insurance for the first time her 50 years on the planet. Then imagine them loosing everything they worked for in their 32 years together.

Well, I don't have to imagine it. It's happening to my cousin Linda. Makes a guy think really hard about moving his business and family to Canada.


Buzz when did he get laid off? I was laid off in late April and the cobra payments are very reasonable thanks to a "recovery" bill passed in january. It dropped cobra payments for me from $450 to $160 a month. This same deal is available for anyone laid off since january, I believe. I can check that.

Bill Billups
08-13-2009, 08:56 PM
Perhaps you've been getting ripped off. I checked this hospital management site because I've had a hospital procedure in Oregon in 1990 which cost $3000.00 for a 2" skin graft and it would appear the man also got his figures from the guys who should know. They actually claim costs can go to $60,000 and nonsurgical treatment can run costs to $27,000. Please check this site out...you are being seriously under paid or something.
http://www.hospitalmanagement.net/features/feature627/

You are talking total cost....not the same as payment to surgeons. Medicare reimbursement is pretty standard with small variation related to where you are located in the US. Payment to surgeons all over the US is about the same. This global payment covers the preop evaluation, the operation, the inpatient postop care, and all followup office visits and any office supplies needed for 90 days. This payment to the surgeon is a great bargain for the patient, the government, and the taxpayers. This amount is a far cry from the inflated figure used to portray surgeons as greedy butchers amputating limbs for their own personal enrichment. Its offensive and the American College of Surgeons(which includes Canadian surgeons) issued a statement condemning his remarks. I would assume it was an innocent misinformed mistake if it weren't for the fact that he made a similar accusation against ENTs regarding tonsillectomies 3 weeks ago. Never mind that tonsillectomies are rarely done now.

I am very disappointed that he's not really going for meaningful reform to lower health care costs and resorting to these low tactics...

Bill

Buzz
08-13-2009, 10:59 PM
Buzz when did he get laid off? I was laid off in late April and the cobra payments are very reasonable thanks to a "recovery" bill passed in january. It dropped cobra payments for me from $450 to $160 a month. This same deal is available for anyone laid off since january, I believe. I can check that.

I'm not exactly sure when he got laid off. They kept it quiet for awhile, I think they were ashamed to admit to family that he wasn't working. My dad went down and stayed with her parents last December to deer hunt on their property and he found out then. He has worked in plastic injection moulding all these years, supplying parts to the auto industry - unfortunately. It was this spring when she was diagnosed with cancer. It was weird, her husband's sister called to tell them that she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and was urging her to go in and get checked out. She did, and it turned out that she had it too. If not for that, she would still be walking around unaware of her condition. So her husband Kip has a wife and sister both going through cancer treatment right now. I wish they would have asked family for help when the crap first hit the fan, but I guess they were too proud and hoped they could work things out on their own.

subroc
08-14-2009, 05:52 AM
I saw where FOX didn't cover Obamas Health Care Town Hall.
The anchor did announce that if and when the meeting got contentious, that FOX would then immediately cut away to it for live coverage of that part of the meeting.

Is that their version of "Fair and Balanced"?

Seems fair to me.

dnf777
08-14-2009, 12:09 PM
I am interested as well in the answer to that tax question. In the numbers I could find a family of 4 pays twice the effective rate of taxes in Canada compared to the US. Additionally I would be curious to hear if Blind Ambition has ever experienced any delay in care for a diagnosis that led to a major procedure.

This is really interesting. It would be interesting to do a comparison of living expenses, taxes, services...etc...

While most other countries DO pay more in taxes than we in America, they often have pension, health, and education provided at varying levels, as well as private services for those who wish to pay extra.

If I could keep all my retirement payments into my 401, my kids college fund deposits, and certainly my health premiums, I bet it would nearly even up the tax differential?? If that were the case, the next question is should gov't take the money and decide on services to citizens, or let the citizens keep their money and go at it on their own?

For most things, I'd like to keep my money and decide myself what to do with it. For other things that involve shared/pooled risk, maybe we would be bette off if more people participated. Then we would hear posts about paying for other's healthcare. We all eventually need it, so why not all pay, instead of the people that choose to pay, having to pay for those who dont?

Steve Amrein
08-14-2009, 12:15 PM
This is really interesting. It would be interesting to do a comparison of living expenses, taxes, services...etc...

While most other countries DO pay more in taxes than we in America, they often have pension, health, and education provided at varying levels, as well as private services for those who wish to pay extra.

If I could keep all my retirement payments into my 401, my kids college fund deposits, and certainly my health premiums, I bet it would nearly even up the tax differential?? If that were the case, the next question is should gov't take the money and decide on services to citizens, or let the citizens keep their money and go at it on their own?

For most things, I'd like to keep my money and decide myself what to do with it. For other things that involve shared/pooled risk, maybe we would be bette off if more people participated. Then we would hear posts about paying for other's healthcare. We all eventually need it, so why not all pay, instead of the people that choose to pay, having to pay for those who dont?

So if you are to settle for the new health care plan then you should blow the retirement funds and live out the remaining years on social security.

dnf777
08-14-2009, 01:14 PM
So if you are to settle for the new health care plan then you should blow the retirement funds and live out the remaining years on social security.

That's sort of a "black or white" response, which indicates you don't understand my point, or feel there's no room for discussion. I believe I said I would rather keep my money and choose my own services, with certain exceptions. Right now, those of us who have health insurance ARE paying for everyone elses, through taxes or elevated premiums. Insurance schemes only work and benefit everyone when you pool the risk, not cherry pick.

I find it interesting that the big companies and pharma have hoodwinked the very people who would benefit from health care reform the most, to argue against it! They are brilliant. I'd like to have an honest poll of these town-hall protesters, as to how many of them have medicare or unemployment benefits. I can't go to them because I work! (or spend time typing on RTF forums)

Steve Amrein
08-14-2009, 02:42 PM
That's sort of a "black or white" response, which indicates you don't understand my point, or feel there's no room for discussion. I believe I said I would rather keep my money and choose my own services, with certain exceptions. Right now, those of us who have health insurance ARE paying for everyone elses, through taxes or elevated premiums. Insurance schemes only work and benefit everyone when you pool the risk, not cherry pick.

I find it interesting that the big companies and pharma have hoodwinked the very people who would benefit from health care reform the most, to argue against it! They are brilliant. I'd like to have an honest poll of these town-hall protesters, as to how many of them have medicare or unemployment benefits. I can't go to them because I work! (or spend time typing on RTF forums)


I am not saying the system is perfect. Far from it my concern is the government involved in anything never makes it better.

On a different note we ( company) are hopefully going to lose our enrolment in group coverage that I pay 1/2 for. It has gone up 20-40 percent every year. The young guys dont want it or just want the money. The old guys dont like the plan and have gone to private coverage. When they opt out I pay the amount I would have paid the ins Co. I am sorry I ever brought it on. Its a huge hassle and a ever increasing burden. If I am taxed our have to pay something for the new plan I will deduct it from the employees current rate of pay. No such thing as free lunch......

dnf777
08-14-2009, 02:50 PM
I am not saying the system is perfect. Far from it my concern is the government involved in anything never makes it better.

On a different note we ( company) are hopefully going to lose our enrolment in group coverage that I pay 1/2 for. It has gone up 20-40 percent every year. The young guys dont want it or just want the money. The old guys dont like the plan and have gone to private coverage. When they opt out I pay the amount I would have paid the ins Co. I am sorry I ever brought it on. Its a huge hassle and a ever increasing burden. If I am taxed our have to pay something for the new plan I will deduct it from the employees current rate of pay. No such thing as free lunch......

We can find alot of common ground there. Employers don't provide for auto insurance, so why do people feel entitled to health insurance through their employer? It set in place this belief that no one should pay for healthcare...or insurance.

Bill Billups
08-14-2009, 03:18 PM
The reason employer based insurance worked in the past was that employees stayed long term and sometimes their whole career in one company. Thats no longer the case and insurance is not very portable as careers are changed often nowadays.

Bill

dnf777
08-14-2009, 03:26 PM
The reason employer based insurance worked in the past was that employees stayed long term and sometimes their whole career in one company. Thats no longer the case and insurance is not very portable as careers are changed often nowadays.

Bill

That, along with the fact that insurance premiums to the company probably came in between the type-writer ribbon budget and the paper-cup allowance when this all started. :(

luvalab
08-14-2009, 04:13 PM
Was scanning the conspiracy theorist corner of the internet this afternoon.

THIS is why I am against current reforms:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_33/b4143034820260.htm


This is not reform that's being proposed; this is the ILLUSION of reform, and behind the magic curtain are government and business, scrambling to figure out how government can look good and therefore gain or maintain power, how legislators can empower themselves personally and politically, and how business can make more money.

The left and right have both gone insane, the mainstream media--right and left--are screeching faux journalism about the nutcases on either side, and I'm getting my news from scanning the postings of conspiracy theorists, who are getting their "crazy" conspiracy ideas from... Business Week?

I am glad I will be back at work in a week, or I would have the time to become genuinely enraged.

Baaaaaah, baaaaaaaah....

Steve Amrein
08-14-2009, 04:14 PM
That, along with the fact that insurance premiums to the company probably came in between the type-writer ribbon budget and the paper-cup allowance when this all started. :(


Me thinks more graduating Doc's than lawyers then as well.

blind ambition
08-14-2009, 06:14 PM
Was scanning the conspiracy theorist corner of the internet this afternoon.

THIS is why I am against current reforms:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_33/b4143034820260.htm


This is not reform that's being proposed; this is the ILLUSION of reform, and behind the magic curtain are government and business, scrambling to figure out how government can look good and therefore gain or maintain power, how legislators can empower themselves personally and politically, and how business can make more money.

The left and right have both gone insane, the mainstream media--right and left--are screeching faux journalism about the nutcases on either side, and I'm getting my news from scanning the postings of conspiracy theorists, who are getting their "crazy" conspiracy ideas from... Business Week?

I am glad I will be back at work in a week, or I would have the time to become genuinely enraged.

Baaaaaah, baaaaaaaah....



Follow the money, there is a lot at stake.

Noam sane