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Gerry Clinchy
08-16-2009, 12:45 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/politics/16emanuel.html?th&emc=th

This guy is really scarey. I don't remember seeing his name on the ballot.

Bob Gutermuth
08-16-2009, 01:42 PM
He is no friend of gun owners either.

Richard Halstead
08-16-2009, 02:09 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/politics/16emanuel.html?th&emc=th

This guy is really scarey. I don't remember seeing his name on the ballot.

Obama is the marionette, and Rahm, the puppet master, is pulling the strings.

road kill
08-16-2009, 06:43 PM
Obama is the marionette, and Rahm, the puppet master, is pulling the strings.


Check out his brother!!:shock:

Bob Gutermuth
08-16-2009, 07:27 PM
The puppetmaster is money man George Soros of Move on.org infamy.

Richard Halstead
08-16-2009, 07:29 PM
Check out his brother!!:shock:

Dr. Zeke emanuele would have a group giving a thumbs up or down deciding if you had used your quota of health care and deserved to live.

YardleyLabs
08-16-2009, 07:48 PM
Dr. Zeke emanuele would have a group giving a thumbs up or down deciding if you had used your quota of health care and deserved to live.
Richard, I think you would be hard pressed to find any evidence at all to suggest that beyond the usual chorus of right wing lies. He's a rather well known bioethicist (and oncologist) who absolutely discusses the ethics of how decisions are made when making such horrible decisions as who will receive a vital organ transplant when there are more people in need than there are organs. Are such discussions inappropriate? How do you believe such decisions should be made? Should we leave it to Anne Coulter? She would simply auction to organ off. Or maybe she would lead the charge in suggesting the sacrifice of the unworthy to provide a source of organs for the chosen.

dnf777
08-16-2009, 08:39 PM
Richard, I think you would be hard pressed to find any evidence at all to suggest that beyond the usual chorus of right wing lies. He's a rather well known bioethicist (and oncologist) who absolutely discusses the ethics of how decisions are made when making such horrible decisions as who will receive a vital organ transplant when there are more people in need than there are organs. Are such discussions inappropriate? How do you believe such decisions should be made? Should we leave it to Anne Coulter? She would simply auction to organ off. Or maybe she would lead the charge in suggesting the sacrifice of the unworthy to provide a source of organs for the chosen.

Yes, the article that was referred to out of context was an academic discussion on end of life issues, full of hypotheticals and proof of concept examples. In no way was he endorsing or supporting any of those notions ascribed to him. Yet another blow to the credibility of the Pro-insurance company crowd.

there ARE legitimate concerns to such a major overhaul. Why can't we stick to those issues? There are plenty, such as how it will be paid for. Instead, we launch personal attacks like that, based on lies and distortions. That's not how to discuss and reach agreements.

Gerry Clinchy
08-16-2009, 09:27 PM
Obama is the marionette, and Rahm, the puppet master, is pulling the strings.

This was the part that I found scary ... that he is pulling the strings on O. That O is just a talking head for Emanuel behind the scenes.

I found it surprising that the article was in the NY Times with this kind of a slant.

road kill
08-17-2009, 06:48 AM
Richard, I think you would be hard pressed to find any evidence at all to suggest that beyond the usual chorus of right wing lies. He's a rather well known bioethicist (and oncologist) who absolutely discusses the ethics of how decisions are made when making such horrible decisions as who will receive a vital organ transplant when there are more people in need than there are organs. Are such discussions inappropriate? How do you believe such decisions should be made? Should we leave it to Anne Coulter? She would simply auction to organ off. Or maybe she would lead the charge in suggesting the sacrifice of the unworthy to provide a source of organs for the chosen.


And his ethics, at the very least, are questionable!

Unless, of course, you are drinking the secular progressive KOOL-AID!!

Those decisions should be left to the individuals!!

Nice "cheap shot" at Anne Coulter.
To what point??

Did you know Annes mother has cancer?
Do you know who the primary care giver is??


What has Anne Coulter and your guesses on what should might do have to do with this?

I thought you told me all of your posts are researched, documented and well thought out??


Right..........:rolleyes:


Now, type out about 5 paragraphs and a few charts....show us what a "BLOW HARD" is.

YardleyLabs
08-17-2009, 06:58 AM
And his ethics, at the very least, are questionable!

Unless, of course, you are drinking the secular progressive KOOL-AID!!
Do you have any examples of his questionable ethics? The guy actually seems too pure if anything. Emanuel is definitely hard as nails, and his Hollywood agent brother probably has a bit of a silicon coating. However, Zeke seems to be pretty straight. But of course, he does seem to work more from facts and logic than from "his gut", so he obviously doesn't fit the mold of his conservative critics.

road kill
08-17-2009, 07:01 AM
Do you have any examples of his questionable ethics? The guy actually seems too pure if anything. Emanuel is definitely hard as nails, and his Hollywood agent brother probably has a bit of a silicon coating. However, Zeke seems to be pretty straight. But of course, he does seem to work more from facts and logic than from "his gut", so he obviously doesn't fit the mold of his conservative critics.


Do you have any examples of his purity??

The only thing I know about him is what he has written and stated.

You probably know sooooo much more!!:rolleyes:

Bob Gutermuth
08-17-2009, 08:11 AM
Rahm is a product of the same crooked Chicago macihne that produced Osama, Daley and the rest of those gangsters, pure my foot.

Buzz
08-17-2009, 08:14 AM
Rahm is a product of the same crooked Chicago macihne that produced Osama, Daley and the rest of those gangsters, pure my foot.

He wasn't referring to Rahm.

YardleyLabs
08-17-2009, 09:35 AM
Do you have any examples of his purity??

The only thing I know about him is what he has written and stated.

You probably know sooooo much more!!:rolleyes:
I'm taking that as a non-response -- that is, you don't have any examples of his "questionable ethics".

road kill
08-17-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm taking that as a non-response -- that is, you don't have any examples of his "questionable ethics".

Yeah, like I said, I only know what he has said and written, you of course dance with semantics.


Show me examples to support his "purity."

You can't, just more of you blow-viating!!

Gerry Clinchy
08-17-2009, 09:42 AM
I'd really like to hear more opinions on Rahm, not his brothers. Rahm is the one who is the power broker ... and yes, he is an offspring of the Chicago political environment.

road kill
08-17-2009, 09:49 AM
Rahm is a foul mouthed bully.
He, in my opinion, is the one calling the shots out of the Whitehouse right now.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/rahms-fingerprints-all-over-package-tactics-2009-02-11.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-rahm-emanuel-profit-26-mar26,0,5682373.story

http://gawker.com/5338476/the-two-sides-of-rahm-emanuel-sociopathic-political-hitman-and-puppy-lover
(this one is good cause he loves puppies!!)


Just a few things about him.

YardleyLabs
08-17-2009, 10:08 AM
Yeah, like I said, I only know what he has said and written, you of course dance with semantics.


Show me examples to support his "purity."

You can't, just more of you blow-viating!!
Discussions with you inevitably revert to second grade playground levels. For background information on Zeke Emanuel, see http://www.cc.nih.gov/about/SeniorStaff/ezekiel_emanuel.html. Also see http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/zeke-emanuel-on-sarah-palins-accusation-of-death-panels-its-an-absolute-outrage.html which points out Zeke's long term opposition to euthanasia.

The basis for all the attacks on Zeke has been his support for advance planning directives, long supported by most Republicans until they decided that it was more fun to call such counseling (currently required by Medicare under provisions adopted with Republican leadership) "death panels". Both of my parents were allowed to die when their times came with no extraordinary efforts to prolong their bodies when their minds and souls had passed on. This was possible only because each left advance directives that expressed their desires. We could have taken advantage of all the "miracles" of modern medicine to keep their bodies technically alive for weeks or months longer.

I have prepared a similar directive and discussed this with my children to be sure they know my wishes. If you make different choices, that is you right and privilege as it should be, and I hope that you have also made those choices clear to guide those who may be forced to decide what happens if you are no longer able to direct your own care. Personally, I do not want the government or hospitals making those decisions without regard to my choices.

To seek to withhold information from people concerning the choices they may make concerning end of life care is fascism, not freedom. Is that what you support, or do you, like Zeke Emanuel, believe each person should be able to make his or her own choice? By the way, euthanasia is not a legal choice anywhere and is opposed by Zeke Emanuel. Personally, I would prefer to have that option available. I doubt that I would ever take advantage of it, but having the option would make the fight easier.

YardleyLabs
08-17-2009, 10:10 AM
Rahm is a foul mouthed bully.
He, in my opinion, is the one calling the shots out of the Whitehouse right now.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/rahms-fingerprints-all-over-package-tactics-2009-02-11.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-rahm-emanuel-profit-26-mar26,0,5682373.story

http://gawker.com/5338476/the-two-sides-of-rahm-emanuel-sociopathic-political-hitman-and-puppy-lover
(this one is good cause he loves puppies!!)


Just a few things about him.
If you go back, you will see that my comments all related to Zeke Emanuel, not Rahm. They are very different people.

road kill
08-17-2009, 10:13 AM
Discussions with you inevitably revert to second grade playground levels. For background information on Zeke Emanuel, see http://www.cc.nih.gov/about/SeniorStaff/ezekiel_emanuel.html. Also see http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/zeke-emanuel-on-sarah-palins-accusation-of-death-panels-its-an-absolute-outrage.html which points out Zeke's long term opposition to euthanasia.

The basis for all the attacks on Zeke has been his support for advance planning directives, long supported by most Republicans until they decided that it was more fun to call such counseling (currently required by Medicare under provisions adopted with Republican leadership) "death panels". Both of my parents were allowed to die when their times came with no extraordinary efforts to prolong their bodies when their minds and souls had passed on. This was possible only because each left advance directives that expressed their desires. We could have taken advantage of all the "miracles" of modern medicine to keep their bodies technically alive for weeks or months longer.

I have prepared a similar directive and discussed this with my children to be sure they know my wishes. If you make different choices, that is you right and privilege as it should be, and I hope that you have also made those choices clear to guide those who may be forced to decide what happens if you are no longer able to direct your own care. Personally, I do not want the government or hospitals making those decisions without regard to my choices.

To seek to withhold information from people concerning the choices they may make concerning end of life care is fascism, not freedom. Is that what you support, or do you, like Zeke Emanuel, believe each person should be able to make his or her own choice? By the way, euthanasia is not a legal choice anywhere and is opposed by Zeke Emanuel. Personally, I would prefer to have that option available. I doubt that I would ever take advantage of it, but having the option would make the fight easier.

Interesting, as all I did was follow YOUR lead.


"Originally Posted by YardleyLabs
Do you have any examples of his questionable ethics? The guy actually seems too pure if anything."


"Originally Posted by road kill
Do you have any examples of his purity??"

So, your "blow-viating" is good, my asking you the exact same question is 2nd grade playground levels.

You are a peice of work.

Do you think if you insult me and call me names I will go away like the others?

stan b & Elvis

dnf777
08-17-2009, 10:28 AM
I think the problem that republicans have with advanced directives and living wills, is that it would be very difficult to distinguish between their normal functional level and brain-death. I'm sure many of them (and a handful of democrats in washington) already meet the criteria.

Buzz
08-17-2009, 10:32 AM
In chronological order:


And his ethics, at the very least, are questionable!

Unless, of course, you are drinking the secular progressive KOOL-AID!!




Do you have any examples of his questionable ethics? The guy actually seems too pure if anything.


Do you have any examples of his purity??

The only thing I know about him is what he has written and stated.

You probably know sooooo much more!!:rolleyes:


I'm taking that as a non-response -- that is, you don't have any examples of his "questionable ethics".


Yeah, like I said, I only know what he has said and written, you of course dance with semantics.


Show me examples to support his "purity."

You can't, just more of you blow-viating!!


That was an informative exchange!

Bob Gutermuth
08-17-2009, 10:34 AM
I don't need to see any more BS on the brothers, I just know they need to be removed as far as possible from the seat of govt.

YardleyLabs
08-17-2009, 11:00 AM
If you are going to quote a pattern of replies, start from the beginning.


Dr. Zeke emanuele would have a group giving a thumbs up or down deciding if you had used your quota of health care and deserved to live.


Check out his brother!!:shock:


Richard, I think you would be hard pressed to find any evidence at all to suggest that beyond the usual chorus of right wing lies. He's a rather well known bioethicist (and oncologist) who absolutely discusses the ethics of how decisions are made when making such horrible decisions as who will receive a vital organ transplant when there are more people in need than there are organs. Are such discussions inappropriate? How do you believe such decisions should be made? Should we leave it to Anne Coulter? She would simply auction to organ off. Or maybe she would lead the charge in suggesting the sacrifice of the unworthy to provide a source of organs for the chosen.


And his ethics, at the very least, are questionable!

Unless, of course, you are drinking the secular progressive KOOL-AID!!

Those decisions should be left to the individuals!!

Nice "cheap shot" at Anne Coulter.
To what point??

Did you know Annes mother has cancer?
Do you know who the primary care giver is??


What has Anne Coulter and your guesses on what should might do have to do with this?

I thought you told me all of your posts are researched, documented and well thought out??


Right..........:rolleyes:


Now, type out about 5 paragraphs and a few charts....show us what a "BLOW HARD" is.


Do you have any examples of his questionable ethics? The guy actually seems too pure if anything. Emanuel is definitely hard as nails, and his Hollywood agent brother probably has a bit of a silicon coating. However, Zeke seems to be pretty straight. But of course, he does seem to work more from facts and logic than from "his gut", so he obviously doesn't fit the mold of his conservative critics.


Do you have any examples of his purity??

The only thing I know about him is what he has written and stated.

You probably know sooooo much more!!:rolleyes:


I'm taking that as a non-response -- that is, you don't have any examples of his "questionable ethics".


Yeah, like I said, I only know what he has said and written, you of course dance with semantics.


Show me examples to support his "purity."

You can't, just more of you blow-viating!!


Discussions with you inevitably revert to second grade playground levels. For background information on Zeke Emanuel, see http://www.cc.nih.gov/about/SeniorStaff/ezekiel_emanuel.html. Also see http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/zeke-emanuel-on-sarah-palins-accusation-of-death-panels-its-an-absolute-outrage.html which points out Zeke's long term opposition to euthanasia.

The basis for all the attacks on Zeke has been his support for advance planning directives, long supported by most Republicans until they decided that it was more fun to call such counseling (currently required by Medicare under provisions adopted with Republican leadership) "death panels". Both of my parents were allowed to die when their times came with no extraordinary efforts to prolong their bodies when their minds and souls had passed on. This was possible only because each left advance directives that expressed their desires. We could have taken advantage of all the "miracles" of modern medicine to keep their bodies technically alive for weeks or months longer.

I have prepared a similar directive and discussed this with my children to be sure they know my wishes. If you make different choices, that is you right and privilege as it should be, and I hope that you have also made those choices clear to guide those who may be forced to decide what happens if you are no longer able to direct your own care. Personally, I do not want the government or hospitals making those decisions without regard to my choices.

To seek to withhold information from people concerning the choices they may make concerning end of life care is fascism, not freedom. Is that what you support, or do you, like Zeke Emanuel, believe each person should be able to make his or her own choice? By the way, euthanasia is not a legal choice anywhere and is opposed by Zeke Emanuel. Personally, I would prefer to have that option available. I doubt that I would ever take advantage of it, but having the option would make the fight easier.

I never replied to your comments concerning my "cheap shot" on Ann Coulter. I was referring to her statement that Zeke Emanuel was on her "death list" because of his so-called support for "death panels", a claim that I suspect she knows full well is unfounded. That her mother died of ovarian cancer is sad, but not unique. Zeke Emanuel's sister has Cerebral Palsy but that didn't prevent Palin from accusing him of being willing to withhold medical care for her challenged child, and both you and I have lost ones we love to cancer.

I look at the bills in Congress and see proposals that would better protect the choices of people facing the situations you and I have both faced. You look at those bills and see loss of freedom of choice. If I keep asking for references, it's because it might be easier to reconcile those different perceptions if we both begin from actual proposals on the table instead of from polemics published by either side.

Hew
08-17-2009, 11:17 AM
Mr. and Mrs. Emanuel should write a book on raising successful kids. I'd buy it.

I imagine Mrs. Emanuel has trouble finding canasta partners at the local day center. "My son Irving is a dentist and my other son Seymour is a technical writer for IBM. What are your children up to, Mrs. Emanuel?" :eek::eek::eek:

road kill
08-17-2009, 02:07 PM
In chronological order:












That was an informative exchange!

And your contribution is?????????????

M&K's Retrievers
08-17-2009, 10:00 PM
[QUOTE=YardleyLabs;

.

I have prepared a similar directive and discussed this with my children to be sure they know my wishes. If you make different choices, that is you right and privilege as it should be, and I hope that you have also made those choices clear to guide those who may be forced to decide what happens if you are no longer able to direct your own care. Personally, I do not want the government or hospitals making those decisions without regard to my choices.

Key word here is "you" not the government.