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View Full Version : Fair warning re. Cars.gov



Evan
08-17-2009, 02:55 PM
DON'T GO THERE...EVER...AT ALL!!!

Watch and decide for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAOBlqUqUZ8

Evan

Buzz
08-17-2009, 03:05 PM
Fist off, Glenn Beck is an idiot.

Second, that isn't something that citizens log into with their computers. It is a website for the DEALERSHIPS to use when doing a cash for clunkers transaction.

Third, it doesn't take over the computer forever. It says that WHILE your are logged into the system, your system is considered a federal computer. But they go on and on about how your computer is taken over forever.

Evan
08-17-2009, 03:21 PM
Buzz,

I don't really watch Glenn much. It's clear that he has an axe to grind, but this was very interesting. I have friends who are in the car business who are skeptical about nearly all aspects of the Cash for Clunkers program.

But what a grotesque stipulation, don't you think? It really does position government officials to do the Big Brother thing to the extreme.

Thought others might like to be aware of it.

Evan

YardleyLabs
08-17-2009, 03:33 PM
If you go to cars.gov, you will find announcements saying that the program is still in effect and a link to a privacy policy that says



DOT PRIVACY POLICY

Content updated on August 8, 2006

Our Commitment

We respect your right to privacy and will protect it when you visit our website.
This Privacy Policy explains our online information practices only, including how we collect and use your personal information. It does not apply to third-party websites that you are able to reach from this website, nor does it cover practices of other areas within the Department of Transportation. We encourage you to read those privacy policies to learn how they collect and use your information.
What We Automatically Collect Online

We collect information about your visit that does not identify you personally. We can tell the computer, browser, and web service you are using. We also know the date, time, and pages you visit. Collecting this information helps us design the site to suit your needs. In the event of a known security or virus threat, we may collect information on the web content you view.
Other Information We May Collect

When you visit our website, we may request and collect the following categories of personal information from you:

Contact information
IDs and passwords Why We Collect Information

Our principal purpose for collecting personal information online is to provide you with what you need and want, address security and virus concerns, and to ease the use of our website.
We will only use your information for the purposes you intended, to address security or virus threats, or for the purposes required under the law. ....


It looks just like privacy statements from other websites. The dealer site is virtually identical and does not contain any of the statement made by Glenn Beck.

Evan
08-17-2009, 03:45 PM
Best updated information I can find at present:

Analysis: What's true in the above is that for an unspecified period of time car dealers participating in the U.S. Department of Transportation's "Cash for Clunkers (http://www.cars.gov/)" program encountered the following warning upon accessing the program's vendors-only website:

This application provides access to the DOT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and is property of the United States government... users have no explicit or implicit expectation of privacy. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected and disclosed to authorized CARS, DOT and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign. By using this system, the user consents to such interception, monitoring, recording, copying, auditing, inspection, and disclosure at the discretion CARS or the DOT personnel. No laughing matter. Nor is it especially comforting to know that only registered dealerships, not the general public, were confronted with the message. It has since been changed.

According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/08/cars-gov-terms-service), a watchdog group focusing on free speech and privacy issues on the Internet, the terms of service language was not only "careless" and "overreaching" but also legally unenforceable and technically dubious:

Clicking "continue" on a poorly worded Terms of Service on a government site will not give the government the ability to "tap into your system... any time they want." The seizure of the personal and private information stored on your computer through a one-sided click-through terms of service is not “conscionable” as lawyers say, and would not be enforceable even if the cars.gov website was capable of doing it, which we seriously doubt. Moreover, the law has long forbidden the government from requiring you to give up unrelated constitutional rights (here the 4th Amendment right to be free from search and seizure) as a condition of receiving discretionary government benefits like participation in the Cars for Clunkers program. As of this writing, the revised terms of service language is more like what one typically finds on government websites and reads as follows:

You are accessing a U.S. Government information system. This information system, including all related equipment, networks, and network devices, is provided for U.S. Government-authorized use only. Unauthorized or improper use of this system is prohibited, and may result in civil and criminal penalties, or administrative disciplinary action. The communications and data stored or transiting this system may be, for any lawful Government purpose, monitored, recorded, and subject to audit or investigation. By using this system, you understand and consent to such terms.

This is from urbanlegends.com.

Evan

Bob Gutermuth
08-17-2009, 03:46 PM
1984 is here, Big Brother is only 25 yrs later than predicted.

brandywinelabs
08-17-2009, 03:53 PM
Perhaps the person/people that wrote this were honest in the first draft.
Perhaps the second draft is......?



Analysis: What's true in the above is that for an unspecified period of time car dealers participating in the U.S. Department of Transportation's "Cash for Clunkers (http://www.cars.gov/)" program encountered the following warning upon accessing the program's vendors-only website:

This application provides access to the DOT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and is property of the United States government... users have no explicit or implicit expectation of privacy. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected and disclosed to authorized CARS, DOT and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign. By using this system, the user consents to such interception, monitoring, recording, copying, auditing, inspection, and disclosure at the discretion CARS or the DOT personnel. No laughing matter. Nor is it especially comforting to know that only registered dealerships, not the general public, were confronted with the message. It has since been changed.
[/INDENT]

Steve Amrein
08-17-2009, 04:00 PM
I was channel surfing the news sat am and they interviewed a dealer the is to date out of pocket over a million bucks. He stated that research has shown that only 10-15 % of claims for clunkers is being processed for dealers nationwide.

road kill
08-17-2009, 04:05 PM
I was channel surfing the news sat am and they interviewed a dealer the is to date out of pocket over a million bucks. He stated that research has shown that only 10-15 % of claims for clunkers is being processed for dealers nationwide.
Steve, I have a freind (yes I have a couple) that owns a series of dealerships in my area.
He is not happy, nor are his attorneys.
Watch what happens here.

His unhappiness stems from a couple hundred payments (from 5 stores) that he has not gotten and advice on the web-site.

They have described it to me as a corrupt scam.

But hey, what do they know???????????

dnf777
08-17-2009, 04:15 PM
1984 is here, Big Brother is only 25 yrs later than predicted.

It arrived in perfect Style 8 years ago! War is Peace, Good is Bad, Black is white.

Steve Amrein
08-17-2009, 06:30 PM
Steve, I have a freind (yes I have a couple) that owns a series of dealerships in my area.
He is not happy, nor are his attorneys.
Watch what happens here.

His unhappiness stems from a couple hundred payments (from 5 stores) that he has not gotten and advice on the web-site.

They have described it to me as a corrupt scam.

But hey, what do they know???????????

It looks like most of the big dealers in St. Louis have better than 200+ clunkers x 4500 =900,000.00 getting stiffed for half will likely bankrupt most. Even drug out over 3-6 months will hurt them bad.

Marvin S
08-17-2009, 06:44 PM
It looks like most of the big dealers in St. Louis have better than 200+ clunkers x 4500 =900,000.00 getting stiffed for half will likely bankrupt most. Even drug out over 3-6 months will hurt them bad.

Ask yourself - Was that the original intent? Saves having to close dealers down. Or is it just another bit of ethanol stupidity? The law of unintended consequences. ;-)

K G
08-17-2009, 08:58 PM
It arrived in perfect Style 8 years ago! War is Peace, Good is Bad, Black is white.

And the "change" we were promised in return for electing BHO...where is that? Oh...yeah...more giveaways of our tax dollars for programs that will kill the economy. Won't be long before the "believers" will be wishing it WAS 8 years ago....:cool:....

Still waiting for all those infrastructure jobs to materialize regards,

kg

Franco
08-17-2009, 11:03 PM
The gooberment is trying to get the checks out this week. They didn't print enough money initially so they are printing more. If the goobs say this week, the dealers can expect thier money by Halloween.

road kill
08-18-2009, 07:43 AM
This excercise is nothing more than the continued efforts of "the Obama" to redistribute wealth.

Just like health care.

Take money from those that have it and GIVE it to those that don't.

End of story!!

badbullgator
08-18-2009, 08:04 AM
Just saw a story on our loacl news last night about three of our biggest dealers who have recieved ZERO money so far....... Most have 100+ cars and one said they have 250 that they are waiting for payment on. Funny, try that with the IRS.......

Hoytman
08-18-2009, 08:43 AM
What I don't understand in this "spread the wealth" cabinet is that they offer $4500 for your car for who? The people who can already afford a new vehicle or are willing to go further into debt at this time? It doesn't make any sense...we're supposed to be spreading that wealth. What the heck ever happened that statement...

...believe me I don't want it. My grandparent/parents made their way and I'll make mine.

Why the heck scrap all those clunkers? Why not keep your word Mr. Obama and give them to my neighbors who are young, lost their jobs, have children and are losing their home and don't really have a decent vehicle to drive that's dependable so they can look for that new job. There's lots of people near me who are trying hard to get out of the gutter. Oh sure, some don't care to stay there but many just need a break in life...but I guess Obama would rather pass on giving them this chance.

Yep, just keep listening to Obama, a real man of his word...my arse.

People forget that Bill Clinton ran on the "change" theme too.

Obama...keep your change buddy...I drive 2 cars with cancer all over them. One with 150,000 miles, and one with 350,000 (a chevy truck). I ain't complaining, I'm blessed to even have that. I'm blessed to wake up in the morning, but some of my neighbors, they voted for you, they believed in you and they're driving junk worse than what I drive or as bad. Why don't you keep your word and spread the wealth to help out your supporters...

I was a Bush man and he handed out millions to start this mess, now Nobama's doin' the same thing. He didn't learn anything from Bush did he?

Go back home Obama...where ever that may be!

Roger Perry
08-18-2009, 10:12 AM
1984 is here, Big Brother is only 25 yrs later than predicted.


Actually it started with the Bush administration and their illegal snooping.

http://www.slate.com/id/2134845/nav/tap1/

road kill
08-18-2009, 10:20 AM
Actually it started with the Bush administration and their illegal snooping.

http://www.slate.com/id/2134845/nav/tap1/


Roger, please..........:rolleyes:

Steve Amrein
08-18-2009, 10:32 AM
What I don't understand in this "spread the wealth" cabinet is that they offer $4500 for your car for who? The people who can already afford a new vehicle or are willing to go further into debt at this time? It doesn't make any sense...we're supposed to be spreading that wealth. What the heck ever happened that statement...

...believe me I don't want it. My grandparent/parents made their way and I'll make mine.

Why the heck scrap all those clunkers? Why not keep your word Mr. Obama and give them to my neighbors who are young, lost their jobs, have children and are losing their home and don't really have a decent vehicle to drive that's dependable so they can look for that new job. There's lots of people near me who are trying hard to get out of the gutter. Oh sure, some don't care to stay there but many just need a break in life...but I guess Obama would rather pass on giving them this chance.

Yep, just keep listening to Obama, a real man of his word...my arse.

People forget that Bill Clinton ran on the "change" theme too.

Obama...keep your change buddy...I drive 2 cars with cancer all over them. One with 150,000 miles, and one with 350,000 (a chevy truck). I ain't complaining, I'm blessed to even have that. I'm blessed to wake up in the morning, but some of my neighbors, they voted for you, they believed in you and they're driving junk worse than what I drive or as bad. Why don't you keep your word and spread the wealth to help out your supporters...

I was a Bush man and he handed out millions to start this mess, now Nobama's doin' the same thing. He didn't learn anything from Bush did he?

Go back home Obama...where ever that may be!


I drove past a lot that had spray painted CC on and some of them were very nice. Maybe they could have given the cars to the folks who could really use one then they could pay for insurance for them selves.

K G
08-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Actually it started with the Bush administration and their illegal snooping.

http://www.slate.com/id/2134845/nav/tap1/

Roger...c'mon, man...does the name "J. Edgar Hoover" ring a bell? :rolleyes: Snooping has been around a LOOOOONG time, legal and illegal, known and unknown. It started LOOOOOONG before the Bush administration....:cool:

But since when do all those pesky facts matter....and using "The Slate" as a credible resource...now THAT was funny! :D

kg

badbullgator
08-19-2009, 02:03 PM
Actually it started with the Bush administration and their illegal snooping.

http://www.slate.com/id/2134845/nav/tap1/


Wow, Roger saying it is Bush's fault??? Hard to believe:rolleyes:

K G
08-19-2009, 08:36 PM
Back to the topic of the thread....what a GREAT idea THIS turned out to be...:rolleyes:


NADA asks U.S. to suspend clunkers program

Funding has run out, dealer group survey shows


I can't cut and paste the article due to copyright restrictions (you're welcome, Chris!), but look for this to break tomorrow....and with only about 15% of the money having been sent to dealers so far, look for this to cripple or kill several car dealers over the next few weeks.

And we haven't even MENTIONED the fact that the government had ZERO concern for the fact that most manufacturers had their plants on shutdown or summer slowdown, which will cause inventories to run WEEKS behind in replenishment....government involvement in the private sector...just what we need MORE of....:-x

kg

dnf777
08-19-2009, 08:42 PM
Back to the topic of the thread....what a GREAT idea THIS turned out to be...:rolleyes:


NADA asks U.S. to suspend clunkers program

Funding has run out, dealer group survey shows


I can't cut and paste the article due to copyright restrictions (you're welcome, Chris!), but look for this to break tomorrow....and with only about 15% of the money having been sent to dealers so far, look for this to cripple or kill several car dealers over the next few weeks.

And we haven't even MENTIONED the fact that the government had ZERO concern for the fact that most manufacturers had their plants on shutdown or summer slowdown, which will cause inventories to run WEEKS behind in replenishment....government involvement in the private sector...just what we need MORE of....:-x

kg

I thought I just heard that GM was increasing production and recalling 1350 workers to meet demands brought on by CFC? I also recall hearing that dealers had months of inventory in stock, and that's why the plants shut down, to allow inventory to move. Sounds like simple supply-and-demand should come into play here and correct itself.