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Bob Gutermuth
08-23-2009, 10:28 AM
Instead of Detroit. This is a kick in the face after we bail out GM .

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/22/clunkers-program-benefits-foreign-automakers-data-shows/?test=latestnews

Roger Perry
08-23-2009, 10:53 AM
Instead of Detroit. This is a kick in the face after we bail out GM .


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/22/clunkers-program-benefits-foreign-automakers-data-shows/?test=latestnews

Bob, maybe you should look up some other news sources instead of the far right foxnews.


DETROIT (AP) -- Higher sales, in part from the government's Cash for Clunkers program, are spurring General Motors Co. to boost production at several of its factories.
The automaker said Tuesday it will add 60,000 vehicles to its production in the third and mainly the fourth quarter. It will also bring back about 1,350 laid-off workers in the U.S. and Canada.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/18/gm-to-reinstate-about-135_n_262420.html

While the Senate debates this week on whether or not to extend more funding for the controversial Cash for Clunkers program, there is one thing that is not open to debate--Ford posted sales gains for the first time in 19 months, thanks at least in part to the trade-ins spurred by the Cash for Clunkers program.

http://www.fordreports.com/blog/1033896_ford-posts-sales-increase-due-to-cash-for-clunkers

Bob Gutermuth
08-23-2009, 11:00 AM
At least Fox is honest news instead of a lying opinion blog like Huffington, Daily Kos and Move On. Why is it that we on the right are not, according to the left , allowed to have one source of fair and balanced reporting? The left has owned all the media outlets from the NYT to NBC and everything in between for years, its about time that the conservatives had a network.

Roger Perry
08-23-2009, 11:06 AM
At least Fox is honest news instead of a lying opinion blog like Huffington, Daily Kos and Move On. Why is it that we on the right are not, according to the left , allowed to have one source of fair and balanced reporting? The left has owned all the media outlets from the NYT to NBC and everything in between for years, its about time that the conservatives had a network.

Did I not just show you where GM is going to hire back employees and increase their production and where Ford is showing a profit?

That alone would discredit your foxnews account as not being the real truth.

Bob Gutermuth
08-23-2009, 11:11 AM
I believe the Huff post about as much as I believe the guy in the White House, NOT AT ALL!

code3retrievers
08-23-2009, 11:24 AM
Did I not just show you where GM is going to hire back employees and increase their production and where Ford is showing a profit?

That alone would discredit your foxnews account as not being the real truth.

Roger,

Why don't you try reading the article again. It states that Ford had a 2.4% increase in sales not profit. 2.4% is not much and does not translate into a profit.

By the way the Huffington post is a joke just like the lefts views.

Roger Perry
08-23-2009, 11:29 AM
Roger,

Why don't you try reading the article again. It states that Ford had a 2.4% increase in sales not profit. 2.4% is not much and does not translate into a profit.

By the way the Huffington post is a joke just like the lefts views.

I consider myself to be a moderate, not far left. But I guess if anyone's views are not far right they must be a lefty.

Roger Perry
08-23-2009, 11:36 AM
I believe the Huff post about as much as I believe the guy in the White House, NOT AT ALL!

Would you believe an AP news source.

General Motors Co. on Tuesday announced that it is boosting production by 60,000 vehicles in the third and fourth quarters as sales rise due to the Cash for Clunkers incentives and a recovery in the U.S. market. About 1,350 laid-off workers will be recalled, while 10,000 more will get a shot at overtime pay. The major U.S. and Canadian factories affected by the increases:
— Ingersoll, Ontario: Add third shift at assembly plant that makes Chevrolet Equinox and GMC Terrain crossover vehicles.
— Lordstown, Ohio: Add second shift at assembly and stamping plants that make Chevrolet Cobalt small car. Add two production days this month to schedule.
— Orion Township, Mich.: Extend production until Thanksgiving week. Plant was to close in mid-September and be retooled for minicar production.
— Delta Township, Mich.: Add overtime in fourth quarter at plant making Buick Enclave and other large crossover vehicles.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=8357870

Probably not. You want Obama to fail because it would not be good for the republicans should Obama pull us out of the Recession Bush had us in when he left office.

code3retrievers
08-23-2009, 12:22 PM
Most people consider them selves as moderates when they probably are not. Since you are so hung up on our former president I can only assume your views are not normal. It is probably unhealthy spending as much time as you do on a former political figure. You may want to focus your energy in the present and stop living in the past.

On your big success of the cash for clunkers - it may not be much in the long run just like the stimulus program. It seems to help short term but in the long run it runs out of stream.

"But many auto analysts questions whether the program will have a lasting impact, robbing sales from the final months of 2009 and 2010. A slight auto industry recovery in July and August could be offset by declining sales in September and October and wipe away the bump in consumer confidence.

"We've got inventories tight, prices going up, incentive activity dropping, new cars coming out in October at even higher prices," said Jeremy Anwyl, CEO of the auto Web site Edmunds.com. "There's not going to be much momentum that's going to drive sales to the levels that we've seen."

The Associated Press contributed to this report"

GM is going to have to cut production again and after the program runs its course and they are back to square one.

Roger Perry
08-23-2009, 12:45 PM
Most people consider them selves as moderates when they probably are not. Since you are so hung up on our former president I can only assume your views are not normal. It is probably unhealthy spending as much time as you do on a former political figure. You may want to focus your energy in the present and stop living in the past.

On your big success of the cash for clunkers - it may not be much in the long run just like the stimulus program. It seems to help short term but in the long run it runs out of stream.

"But many auto analysts questions whether the program will have a lasting impact, robbing sales from the final months of 2009 and 2010. A slight auto industry recovery in July and August could be offset by declining sales in September and October and wipe away the bump in consumer confidence.

"We've got inventories tight, prices going up, incentive activity dropping, new cars coming out in October at even higher prices," said Jeremy Anwyl, CEO of the auto Web site Edmunds.com. "There's not going to be much momentum that's going to drive sales to the levels that we've seen."

The Associated Press contributed to this report"

GM is going to have to cut production again and after the program runs its course and they are back to square one.

As far as the past administration, they are the reason we are in such a financial mess that we find ourselves in today.

As far as the auto industry goes, no one can predict what the future will be and we will just have to wait and see what happens next.

If we could predict the future, in 2008 I would have bet the house that all of the US auto makers would have filed for bankruptcy by now.

dnf777
08-23-2009, 01:48 PM
I consider myself to be a moderate, not far left. But I guess if anyone's views are not far right they must be a lefty.

Roger, don't you know? If you look in the mirror, and see anything but Rush Limbaugh's fat head or Sean Hannity's "never been drunk in my life" mug, then yes, you are a flaming liberal!

I've been told all sorts of things about myself, my beliefs, and my errant ways that I never realized until now. :rolleyes:

dave

dnf777
08-23-2009, 01:57 PM
Most people consider them selves as moderates when they probably are not. Since you are so hung up on our former president I can only assume your views are not normal. It is probably unhealthy spending as much time as you do on a former political figure. You may want to focus your energy in the present and stop living in the past..

What the far right so dearly wants, and can't understand, is we CAN'T forget the past, when it is those very policies that CONTINUE to this day to adversely affect our present economic situation.

When the bills come in at the end of the month, is it appropriate to say, "gee, I bought that plasma tv in the past, and probably shouldn't have 'cause I couldn't afford it, and still can't...so I'll just forget about it and not worry about these bills, after all, I bought it in the past?"

Of course not. When I used to be a republican, the part stood for taking responsibility for your actions. Now I see a party trying to dismiss it's actions, and lay them on the new guy's lap. I'm not going to blindly follow any party anymore because they have talking heads telling me they're good for me! I would like to see the former republican congress and president own up to their responsibility, and accept that they created $7 trillion in debt, without any democrats to blame here, placing a choke-hold on the economy.

That is why many Americans who know what its like to pay their bills can't stop thinking about the previous administration. We're getting the bills now.

code3retrievers
08-23-2009, 03:52 PM
Tell me how the "right got us into this mess". If you think Bush was far right you don't know jack.

Bush was a moderate in his fiscal dealings. In fact if he would have stood up and had some stones, he would have put a break on spending. Instead he spent like there was no tomorrow and signed on to the Dems prescription drug program and other reoccurring expenses. (Name one conservative that was for this)

You may not like his war policy and I can understand that, but true conservatives spoke out against his spending and were called cruel for not wanting another entitlement program.

Now you guys are all for creating the grandest entitlement of them all and are trying to lay all future debts on Bush. Obama has already added to the deficit and it will only grow.

This fiasco may have started on Bush's watch but Obama promised fiscal responsibility and so far has not shown any and you lefty's are cheering him on the whole way

Your mentality confuses me. I will ask it again, what solutions does the left have? How much has Obama's policies added to the dept / deficit?

dnf777
08-23-2009, 04:06 PM
You may not like his war policy and I can understand that, but true conservatives spoke out against his spending and were called cruel for not wanting another entitlement program.

Your mentality confuses me. I will ask it again, what solutions does the left have? How much has Obama's policies added to the dept / deficit?

Who are the "true conservatives"? Rush, Hannity, Coulter....all I heard from them were slurping sounds for the past 8 years, unless they were cheering stem-cell research moratoriums!

Don't ask me about leftist solutions. If I wasn't happy about Bush running up trillions in debt, why would I be happy about Obama? Frankly, I think it's too far gone for anything to help, except time, and misfortune upon our competitors. China may become a victim of it's own success.

My earlier comments may lead one to believe I favor CFC. Not really. I mentioned my neighbor just got a new car with it. Good for him, but I'd rather see that $4500 stay in my pocket, and take my wife to Hawaii for a week and and get a new double-gun for myelf. My point was I'm glad to see that if my money is going to be taken away and spent, I'd rather see it helping fellow Americans than Haliburton execs and Iraqi contractors, which is where the bulk of it had been going.

K G
08-23-2009, 04:18 PM
As far as the past administration, they are the reason we are in such a financial mess that we find ourselves in today.

Roger, if you TRULY believe this (and since you've put it in about a hundred posts, you MUST believe it), then you are NOT a moderate. NONE of your posts indicate any sort of "moderate" stance. NONE.

Now, since you DO "live in the past" as much as your posts illustrate, you SHOULD be able (willing is another issue entirely) to go back and see what effect Clinton's deregulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did to the money supply and the credit markets for houses, which have decimated credit markets overall.

Add to this the $9 TRILLION projected deficit BHO has given us....Roger, Bush 43 is no longer in office....at what point do you think you'll start realizing that we've got an AMATEUR in the White House? How much more in debt/how much more "bailing out" will this administration do before it realizes the HOLE it's putting us ALL in?????

'Course, you may be flush and none of this affects you. If so, good for you....

kg

zeus3925
08-23-2009, 04:23 PM
Glad to take advantage of the CARS program. Traded in our 1999 Ranger that got 16 mpg (18 highway) for a 2010 Equinox that gets 29 mpg highway with AWD. The Equinox is one sweet machine.

Good luck finding one anytime soon as the dealers have sold out just about all of them that are on the lot or on order before October. If you think "cash for clunkers" is not helping domestic dealers, take a swing by a Ford or GM dealer's lot. They all are devoid of anything but guzzlers.

You know the best thing, Bob?--we are making the sheik suffer a bit longer to come up with the cash to buy a fourth wife.

K G
08-23-2009, 04:52 PM
Before CFC was enacted, EVERY major automobile manufacturer had furloughed or laid off workers and all but shut down their production lines. They were prepared to deplete their inventory by about 70% over a 90 to 120 day period with current sales volume before restarting production, rehiring workers, and attempting to rebuild their business.

So what did the "brain surgeons" of this administration do? Come up with a plan to use $1 billion of OUR tax dollars to "stimulate the economy" without any concern whatsoever for dealer's inventories and manufacturer's ability to replenish those inventories...nor did they have the infrastructure in place to process the paperwork so that dealers could be reimbursed in a TIMELY manner (one dealer locally had sold 60 CFC deals as of Friday and has not received the first DIME of payment from the Dept. of Transportation). Can you say "negative cash flow?" :rolleyes:

Then, after that $1 billion was used in 1/10th of the time THEY projected it would be used in (it moved that 90-120 day cycle up WAY fast), those same "brain surgeons" said "Well, this plan worked so well, why don't we throw another $2 billion into it ($3 billion total) and see how many dealers we can bankrupt by decimating their cash flow and emptying their lots of their most popular models with no replacements scheduled to be delivered for 60-90 days? Sounds like a plan...LET'S DO IT!!!" Sorry, but I can't even give them credit for thinking even THAT far ahead....:cool:

Son of Cronus and Rhea, I'm glad you're happy with your new vehicle. Sure hope your dealer has got some cash stashed for the next 60 days while he's waiting for reimbursement from the BHO gang AND waiting for GM to get more inventory to him. I would go into all of the collateral damage this "successful plan" was caused, but most folks don't care...all they care about, like you, is that they got their deal done.

And before anyone says "well, they can make their money off of preowned cars," the CFC plan has pushed the price of pre-owned cars up exponentially and made scarce the type of inventory these dealers can usually count on. A good number of those 500,000 CFC cars that will end up in the scrap heap could have been sold to folks with REAL clunkers (pre-1984) or folks with no reliable transportation at all...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...all that matters is the oh-so-slight improvement in the chloroflourocarbon (hmmm...also known as CFCs...I smell a conspiracy....:-P) in our atmosphere and all of the "recycling" opportunities. If anyone thinks that someone with a 10 mpg improvement with their vehicle is going to make them drive LESS, then I've got some swamp land in Arizona you will DEFINITELY be interested in....

Can't WAIT to see what the BHO buffoons have in mind for their next economic stimulus effort. I keep expecting to hear about road improvement and infrastructure projects to put more cash in people's pockets like it was PROMISED before the election.....:cool:

With baited breath regards,

kg

zeus3925
08-23-2009, 05:14 PM
Before CFC was enacted, EVERY major automobile manufacturer had furloughed or laid off workers and all but shut down their production lines. They were prepared to deplete their inventory by about 70% over a 90 to 120 day period with current sales volume before restarting production, rehiring workers, and attempting to rebuild their business.

So what did the "brain surgeons" of this administration do? Come up with a plan to use $1 billion of OUR tax dollars to "stimulate the economy" without any concern whatsoever for dealer's inventories and manufacturer's ability to replenish those inventories...nor did they have the infrastructure in place to process the paperwork so that dealers could be reimbursed in a TIMELY manner (one dealer locally had sold 60 CFC deals as of Friday and has not received the first DIME of payment from the Dept. of Transportation). Can you say "negative cash flow?" :rolleyes:

Then, after that $1 billion was used in 1/10th of the time THEY projected it would be used in (it moved that 90-120 day cycle up WAY fast), those same "brain surgeons" said "Well, this plan worked so well, why don't we throw another $2 billion into it ($3 billion total) and see how many dealers we can bankrupt by decimating their cash flow and emptying their lots of their most popular models with no replacements scheduled to be delivered for 60-90 days? Sounds like a plan...LET'S DO IT!!!" Sorry, but I can't even give them credit for thinking even THAT far ahead....:cool:

Son of Cronus and Rhea, I'm glad you're happy with your new vehicle. Sure hope your dealer has got some cash stashed for the next 60 days while he's waiting for reimbursement from the BHO gang AND waiting for GM to get more inventory to him. I would go into all of the collateral damage this "successful plan" was caused, but most folks don't care...all they care about, like you, is that they got their deal done.

And before anyone says "well, they can make their money off of preowned cars," the CFC plan has pushed the price of pre-owned cars up exponentially and made scarce the type of inventory these dealers can usually count on. A good number of those 500,000 CFC cars that will end up in the scrap heap could have been sold to folks with REAL clunkers (pre-1984) or folks with no reliable transportation at all...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...all that matters is the oh-so-slight improvement in the chloroflourocarbon (hmmm...also known as CFCs...I smell a conspiracy....:-P) in our atmosphere and all of the "recycling" opportunities. If anyone thinks that someone with a 10 mpg improvement with their vehicle is going to make them drive LESS, then I've got some swamp land in Arizona you will DEFINITELY be interested in....

Can't WAIT to see what the BHO buffoons have in mind for their next economic stimulus effort. I keep expecting to hear about road improvement and infrastructure projects to put more cash in people's pockets like it was PROMISED before the election.....:cool:

With baited breath regards,

kg

Got a violin for you, KG.

Anything that improves the mileage of the fleet and keeps cash out of Saudi Arabia is just fine with me.

Glad to see you have a concern for the environment, KG. Those junkyards accepting the clunkers must comply with environmental regulation. That includes CFC recapture.

Those pre-1984 cars--the antique car collectors lobbied hard to exclude them from the bill. They were afraid their "classics" would disappear in some kondirator.

By the way here is a bit of reading for you:


http://freep.com/article/20090816/BUSINESS01/908160433/1204/Popular-Fusion--Focus-help-Ford-post-car-sales-gains

K G
08-23-2009, 06:09 PM
Got a violin for you, KG.

Save your violin for the dealers that go out of business, Son of Cronus and Rhea. You got your deal...that's all the matters, right?


Anything that improves the mileage of the fleet and keeps cash out of Saudi Arabia is just fine with me.

And I'd agree with you IF if weren't for that pesky thing called "math." :razz: Folks that buy more fuel-efficient cars are NOT going to keep the same driving style as they did when they got 10 less mpg. Ergo, the net/net "gain" in fuel saved is negligible, capiche? And 500,000 cars out of the 125 MILLION (125, six zeros and two commas....;-)) on the road today is .004%; that's 4 ONE THOUSANDTHS of ONE percent....if you think that's gonna keep cash out of Saudi Arabia OR "improve the mileage of the fleet," you're not dreaming...you're delusional....


Glad to see you have a concern for the environment, KG. Those junkyards accepting the clunkers must comply with environmental regulation. That includes CFC recapture.

Glad to see you have NO concern OR understanding for how this whole deal is going to work out for the economy or the environment....:rolleyes:


By the way here is a bit of reading for you:

http://freep.com/article/20090816/BUSINESS01/908160433/1204/Popular-Fusion--Focus-help-Ford-post-car-sales-gains

Since I sell advertising for a living, I'm pretty well aware of where things stand in the automobile business....but thanks anyway. Now, in my effort to improve YOUR perspective on the OVERALL situation, permit me to avail you of the following information:

http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090823/BIZ/908230319/-1/NEWSMAP

http://www.wbtv.com/global/story.asp?s=10885146

http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/local/article/cash_for_clunkers_could_impact_local_charities/20428/

http://donklephant.com/2009/08/05/whats-the-environmental-impact-of-cash-for-clunkers/

Hope you've learned something regards, :-P

kg

code3retrievers
08-23-2009, 07:14 PM
KG,
The problem with the liberal mindset is, they do not understand the way the real world works. They live in a fantasy land where there are no unintended consequences.

When things don't work out, they will say that more was needed but the evil Republicans would not let them do enough.

zeus3925
08-23-2009, 08:24 PM
Save your violin for the dealers that go out of business, Son of Cronus and Rhea. You got your deal...that's all the matters, right?

Actually, my wife got the deal but I get to ride in it.:D

I'm not in the business to watch out for the dealer's a$$e$. They are big boys and they can look out for themselves. They could opt out (and a few did) if they thought the program was too much bother.


And I'd agree with you IF if weren't for that pesky thing called "math." :razz: Folks that buy more fuel-efficient cars are NOT going to keep the same driving style as they did when they got 10 less mpg. Ergo, the net/net "gain" in fuel saved is negligible, capiche? .

500,000 cars getting 28 vs. 18 mpg means 149 million gallons of fuel saved per year at an average of 15000 miles per year per car. A car going the same distance at 29 MPG is going 62% further on a gallon of gas than one getting 18. Have someone show you the math. That's less of my money going to Saudi Arabia and to your friend Hugo Chavez.



Glad to see you have NO concern OR understanding for how this whole deal is going to work out for the economy or the environment....:rolleyes:

I have a young nephew that works for GM that just got called back to work because of increased demand. One of the guys I train with is a foreman in an iron mine. He just got called back to work because of a rise in demand for steel. Yeah, I pretty much understand.

Could the government have done a better job with the paperwork? Yep, no quarrel there.

As for drying up the used car market, at least in this area the used car market had already dried up long before. Dealers were not selling new cars and there were few trade ins. Prices were already through the roof. I have seen the "clunkers" on the lots and believe me not many would be useful for anything.


Regards!

Goose
08-23-2009, 08:41 PM
What is it with you leftists! Cash For Clunkers is a fraud like everything else the government's doing to revive the economy. Try this...get a 3 X 5 card and write "WE ARE BROKE" on it and tape it to the mirror in your bathroom. Read it every morning as you're primping for work. WE ARE BROKE. Repeat 10 times.

You don't spend more money you don't have if you are broke. It's just more Keynesian hocus pocus. It's fraud! Maybe Ford and GM sold a few more cars. Whoopie! We are broke and we can't afford giving these companies forty-five friggin' hundred dollars per clunker. And then what does the government do? It destroys the clunker! How stupid is that! Sell it to somebody else who can't afford a dopey Prius. Beautiful.

We live in Cuba now.

zeus3925
08-23-2009, 09:22 PM
What is it with you leftists! Cash For Clunkers is a fraud like everything else the government's doing to revive the economy. Try this...get a 3 X 5 card and write "WE ARE BROKE" on it and tape it to the mirror in your bathroom. Read it every morning as you're primping for work. WE ARE BROKE. Repeat 10 times.

You don't spend more money you don't have if you are broke. It's just more Keynesian hocus pocus. It's fraud! Maybe Ford and GM sold a few more cars. Whoopie! We are broke and we can't afford giving these companies forty-five friggin' hundred dollars per clunker. And then what does the government do? It destroys the clunker! How stupid is that! Sell it to somebody else who can't afford a dopey Prius. Beautiful.

We live in Cuba now.

Well I'll be glad to sell you that '99 Ranger for $5000. No rust or serious dings and good rubber. But, it has 200,100 miles on it and the engine is going to need work. In Cuba it would be worth a treasure.

K G
08-23-2009, 09:47 PM
I'm not in the business to watch out for the dealer's a$$e$. They are big boys and they can look out for themselves. They could opt out (and a few did) if they thought the program was too much bother.

Good to know where you stand. I'm not a bit surprised. Does the term "trickle down effect" mean anything to you? No?


500,000 cars getting 28 vs. 18 mpg means 149 million gallons of fuel saved per year at an average of 15000 miles per year per car. A car going the same distance at 29 MPG is going 62% further on a gallon of gas than one getting 18. Have someone show you the math. That's less of my money going to Saudi Arabia and to your friend Hugo Chavez.

If the .004% improvement in fuel efficiency makes a big difference to you, so be it, math notwithstanding. I guess you chose not to read the link about how folks with better gas mileage cars will now be driving MORE miles, which will mean NO net savings in fuel. I guess common sense is not so common...your money will STILL be going to OPEC...and did that attempt at an insult make you feel better?


I have a young nephew that works for GM that just got called back to work because of increased demand. One of the guys I train with is a foreman in an iron mine. He just got called back to work because of a rise in demand for steel. Yeah, I pretty much understand.

Guess you missed the part about the ramp-up that was planned anyway...it just got moved up by CFC. You want to give the BHO administration credit for it, and based on the issues they're having with health care and cap and trade, I certainly see why. Stay tuned...you ain't seen nothin' yet....;-)


Could the government have done a better job with the paperwork? Yep, no quarrel there.

Wait a minute....why do you care about the paperwork? Screw the dealer, right? THEY are the ones having to do the paperwork! Do you KNOW anyone working for a car dealer? How 'bout a detail shop? How 'bout any aftermarket parts suppliers that sell them parts? ALL of these folks suffer if that dealer goes out of business because they couldn't get reimbursed from the US Transportation Dept....'course, none of that matters to you...long as you don't know 'em.


As for drying up the used car market, at least in this area the used car market had already dried up long before. Dealers were not selling new cars and there were few trade ins. Prices were already through the roof. I have seen the "clunkers" on the lots and believe me not many would be useful for anything.

Preowned is outselling new in this market 9 to 1, at least before CFC. With their lots depleted of new inventory, thanks to the BHO administration getting into the car business, all they have to sell now is SUVs and trucks...and preowned which are harder to come by and more expensive, but I'm sure you read that in the link I provided....but wait, you don't give a crap about the dealer...my bad....:cool:

kg

zeus3925
08-23-2009, 10:07 PM
If the .004% improvement in fuel efficiency makes a big difference to you, so be it, math notwithstanding. I guess you chose not to read the link about how folks with better gas mileage cars will now be driving MORE miles, which will mean NO net savings in fuel. I guess common sense is not so common...your money will STILL be going to OPEC...and did that attempt at an insult make you feel better?

My milage is more likely to drop somewhat. The milage difference is not going to make much of a difference in the ave. 15,000 miles per year most people drive. I don't buy your arguement, KG


Wait a minute....why do you care about the paperwork? Screw the dealer, right? THEY are the ones having to do the paperwork! Do you KNOW anyone working for a car dealer? How 'bout a detail shop? How 'bout any aftermarket parts suppliers that sell them parts? ALL of these folks suffer if that dealer goes out of business because they couldn't get reimbursed from the US Transportation Dept....'course, none of that matters to you...long as you don't know 'em.

Yeah, I know people in the dealerships. My brother in law is a sales manager in a Chevy dealership in the Denver area. But still, ain't my job to worry about the dealers.

You're a true blue Republican, KG. But I can't see how life can be much fun for you given your level of cynicism.

dback
08-23-2009, 11:45 PM
I'm not in the business to watch out for the dealer's a$$e$.

This Yardley, is precisely why that Utopian Society taught on your Ivy League campus is destined to abject failure. The "I'm gonna get mine and screw everyone else" mentality is far too pervasive in any society, for any system even closely resembling socialism, to long survive. I am unable to fathom how a man of any reasonable intelligence fails to foresee this as a foregone conclusion. Unless of course, it is an individual who flashes an impressive resume and fully expects all to kowtow to its contents blissfully unaware that it is missing lifes most important element....'reality'.

K G
08-24-2009, 07:36 AM
My milage is more likely to drop somewhat. The milage difference is not going to make much of a difference in the ave. 15,000 miles per year most people drive. I don't buy your arguement, KG

Obviously you didn't read any of the links I provided. It is not MY argument...it is an OBSERVATION, made by folks MUCH smarter than you and I are, that I happen to agree with. That you don't "buy" it matters not to me...and again, doesn't surprise me. We'll let you be the anomaly in the equation and move on...:rolleyes:




Yeah, I know people in the dealerships. My brother in law is a sales manager in a Chevy dealership in the Denver area. But still, ain't my job to worry about the dealers.

You've made it abundantly clear that you only "worry" about yourself. Got it.


You're a true blue Republican, KG. But I can't see how life can be much fun for you given your level of cynicism.

And you're a flaming left wing liberal, Son of Cronus and Rhea....and if my life were "fun" at the expense of other people, I couldn't sleep at night....but apparently that has no effect on you. As for cynicism, try "realism." MY life is not all about me, like yours is for you. If you can't face the FACTS and chose to make up "facts" to fit your own situation, that's on you. In fact, I think dback summed your comment up pretty well:


This Yardley, is precisely why that Utopian Society taught on your Ivy League campus is destined to abject failure. The "I'm gonna get mine and screw everyone else" mentality is far too pervasive in any society, for any system even closely resembling socialism, to long survive. I am unable to fathom how a man of any reasonable intelligence fails to foresee this as a foregone conclusion. Unless of course, it is an individual who flashes an impressive resume and fully expects all to kowtow to its contents blissfully unaware that it is missing lifes most important element....'reality'.

Have a good day gettin' yours regards,

kg

zeus3925
08-24-2009, 09:11 AM
You've made it abundantly clear that you only "worry" about yourself. Got it.

Not the case, KG. My lack of concern for car dealers doesn't mean I think only of myself.

I've been dealing with car salesmen quite a bit of late. I've worn out of patience for their tactics. We walked out the door as soon as the fiction started. I have less love for them than republican politicians.

As for the your inability to keep your coffee grinder radio station afloat, I guess you are entitled to your frustration as the car lots have nothing to advertise.




And you're a flaming left wing liberal, Son of Cronus and Rhea....and if my life were "fun" at the expense of other people, I couldn't sleep at night....but apparently that has no effect on you. As for cynicism, try "realism." MY life is not all about me, like yours is for you. If you can't face the FACTS and chose to make up "facts" to fit your own situation, that's on you.

Real flaming left-wing liberals don't post here. But, I sure ain't a banjo pickin' conservative, either. I'll pay for my own fun, thank you. As for choosing facts--back at ya!

K G
08-24-2009, 10:04 AM
Not the case, KG. My lack of concern for car dealers doesn't mean I think only of myself.

I've been dealing with car salesmen quite a bit of late. I've worn out of patience for their tactics. We walked out the door as soon as the fiction started. I have less love for them than republican politicians.

As for the your inability to keep your coffee grinder radio station afloat, I guess you are entitled to your frustration as the car lots have nothing to advertise.

Assumption is the mother of all f'ups, bud. You made a couple of really bad ones in your last paragraph here, but if that makes you happy, have at it. You don't seem to be too concerned with the truth overall anyway...



Real flaming left-wing liberals don't post here. But, I sure ain't a banjo pickin' conservative, either. I'll pay for my own fun, thank you. As for choosing facts--back at ya!

You're right about some of the REAL flaming left-wing liberals...didn't take much for them to bail here a few months ago. They can dish it out but they can't take it. I'd have a little more faith in you if I just believed you cared enough to see A) another point of view, and B) the facts that support that point of view. But you don't...so...there we go...great comeback, though...very original...:rolleyes:

kg

zeus3925
08-24-2009, 11:31 AM
I'd have a little more faith in you if I just believed you cared enough to see A) another point of view, and B) the facts that support that point of view. But you don't...so...there we go...great comeback, though...very original...:rolleyes:

kg

FYI--I did read every one of your links. Some of those I agree with-- others not. I am not exactly a a rube when it comes to the auto world. I grew up in Michigan. I have family and friends that are involved in all of the Big Three car makers from management to manufacturing to sales. You can also throw in the UAW if you think that matters. I read Detroit newspapers more or less daily. My perspective may differ somewhat from yours down in the southeast.

But as an American, I sometimes do what Adam Smith proposed in his Wealth of the Nations. I act in what is my enlightened self interest. If a dude wants to give you $4500 for a $1500 clunker I'm sure that you'd take the cash and run, too. After all, its perfectly American.

But, KG, your web visage pretty well matches your avatar's--wild and edgy and thoroughly Republican. You make it fun to go toe to toe with you. Don't think you are going to make me a GOPer though. I'd sooner change my religion.

Regards.

Franco
08-24-2009, 11:39 AM
With Cash For Clunkers now over, how will new vehicle dealers sell cars and trucks now?

New vehicle dealers are now getting ready for a big slow down as consumers have been trained to only buy when there are huge factory rebates. Now, those same huge factory rebates aren't enough to stimulate sales.

CFC may have stimualted business for one month but now the manufactorers and retailers are going to have to pay the devil.

duckheads
08-24-2009, 11:50 AM
it's funny how someone calls themselves a moderate and visits the huffington post! that is just too funny!

dback
08-24-2009, 12:14 PM
If a dude wants to give you $4500 for a $1500 clunker I'm sure that you'd take the cash and run, too. After all, its perfectly American.

Wasn't some 'dude'....it was American Tax payers.

We in Arizona already tried one of these 'enlightened' programs that few outside of the state are aware www.nytimes.com/2000/11/02/us/costly-plan-to-promote-alternative-fuels-jolts-arizona.html?pagewanted=all . The program was extremely costly, poorly administered and fraught with fraud (sound familiar). Arizona gained Nada, Zero, Zippo (excepting a huge tax bill) but there were those who couldn't wipe the grin off their faces...'reality' (that pesky little word again). Wikipedia states that Gov. Jane Hull will always be remembered for her handling of the two German nationals' death penalties....in Arizona however, she will always be dubbed "Propane Jane"

code3retrievers
08-24-2009, 12:19 PM
FYI--
But as an American, I sometimes do what Adam Smith proposed in his Wealth of the Nations. I act in what is my enlightened self interest. If a dude wants to give you $4500 for a $1500 clunker I'm sure that you'd take the cash and run, too. After all, its perfectly American.

Regards.

Nice welfare mentality! If you really cared, you would have done what a lot of us did and purchase your nice new car with great milage with your own money and stop using our tax money.

The left wants to improve their lot in life and the enviroment with other peoples money.

zeus3925
08-24-2009, 12:36 PM
Nice welfare mentality! If you really cared, you would have done what a lot of us did and purchase your nice new car with great milage with your own money and stop using our tax money.

The left wants to improve their lot in life and the enviroment with other peoples money.

Hey dude, just like every one else in the middle class I got soaked damn good and heavy on taxes for the last 50 years. Some of it went for a lot more foolish stuff than CFC. About time I got some of it back. Feel guilty?--Hell No!

Roger Perry
08-24-2009, 02:31 PM
What is it with you leftists! Cash For Clunkers is a fraud like everything else the government's doing to revive the economy. Try this...get a 3 X 5 card and write "WE ARE BROKE" on it and tape it to the mirror in your bathroom. Read it every morning as you're primping for work. WE ARE BROKE. Repeat 10 times.

You don't spend more money you don't have if you are broke. It's just more Keynesian hocus pocus. It's fraud! Maybe Ford and GM sold a few more cars. Whoopie! We are broke and we can't afford giving these companies forty-five friggin' hundred dollars per clunker. And then what does the government do? It destroys the clunker! How stupid is that! Sell it to somebody else who can't afford a dopey Prius. Beautiful.

We live in Cuba now.

Just how broke were you and everyone else before the year 2001?

Roger Perry
08-24-2009, 02:55 PM
to go back and see what effect Clinton's deregulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did to the money supply and the credit markets for houses, which have decimated credit markets overall.

How much more in debt/how much more "bailing out" will this administration do before it realizes the HOLE it's putting us ALL in?????

'Course, you may be flush and none of this affects you. If so, good for you....

kg

Where was your concern for bailouts when Bush was in office?

GOP slams Bush over bailout

Republican leaders across the board have let loose on President Bush’s auto industry (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16753.html#) bailout in what may be some of the toughest GOP criticism of the Bush presidency.

John McCain is leading the way, saying it is “unacceptable that we would leave the American taxpayer with a tab of tens of billions of dollars while failing to receive any serious concessions from the industry.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16753.html

Bush: Bailout plan necessary to deal with crisis


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. President George W. Bush, saying "our entire economy is in danger," urged Congress to approve his administration's $700 billion bailout proposal.
"We're in the midst of a serious financial crisis, and the federal government is responding with decisive actions," Bush said in a televised address Wednesday night from the White House.
Bush pointed out that the collapse of several major lenders was rooted in the subprime mortgage market that thrived over the past decade.
He said passage of the $700 billion bailout proposal was needed to restore confidence in the market.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/bush.bailout/index.html

Bush signs $700 billion financial bailout bill

President promises quick but ‘deliberative’ action to rescue Wall Street

Bush signs $700 billion financial bailout bill

President promises quick but ‘deliberative’ action to rescue Wall Street

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26987291/

Roger Perry
08-24-2009, 03:15 PM
Now, since you DO "live in the past" as much as your posts illustrate, you SHOULD be able (willing is another issue entirely) to go back and see what effect Clinton's deregulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did to the money supply and the credit markets for houses, which have decimated credit markets overall.


kg

If as you say, Clinton's deregulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were so bad, Why did Bush with his Republican Congress not change it. After all they did have 6 years to do it.

Franco
08-24-2009, 03:40 PM
John McCain is leading the way, saying it is “unacceptable that we would leave the American taxpayer with a tab of tens of billions of dollars while failing to receive any serious concessions from the industry.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16753.html



Had McCain opposed the bailouts while he was running for President instead of supporting them, he might be our President today!

The GOP was trying to buy votes at election time by supporting the bailouts and we can see where it got them.

mjh345
08-24-2009, 03:53 PM
Had McCain opposed the bailouts while he was running for President instead of supporting them, he might be our President today!

The GOP was trying to buy votes at election time by supporting the bailouts and we can see where it got them.


Franco this vote buying GOP is the same party you support?

Roger Perry
08-24-2009, 04:26 PM
Bailing out the auto industry:

McConnell said he realized the Bush auto bailout was coming, and is insisting more strings be attached.

And Obama gets criticized for bailing out GM when a republican (Bush) saw the bailout coming but ran out of time before he could bail out the auto industry?

Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.) went one step further with bailout regret: “It is now clear that the creation of TARP was a rueful mistake which has failed to provide urgent market stability, yet has put our country perilously in debt for the foreseeable future.”

Really? Put us in debt for the foreseeable future?

“Taxpayers can rest assured that as a condition for receiving these loans, auto companies must fundamentally restructure their operations to become competitive and profitable again,”

Ford showing a profit and GM rehiring workers?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16753.html

zeus3925
08-24-2009, 05:39 PM
This one is for you, Bob.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0707

K G
08-24-2009, 08:15 PM
FYI--I did read every one of your links. Some of those I agree with-- others not. I am not exactly a a rube when it comes to the auto world. I grew up in Michigan. I have family and friends that are involved in all of the Big Three car makers from management to manufacturing to sales. You can also throw in the UAW if you think that matters. I read Detroit newspapers more or less daily. My perspective may differ somewhat from yours down in the southeast.

I get the impression you think your perspective may be more...how shall I say it...enlightened...than mine. Am I misreading your intent?


But as an American, I sometimes do what Adam Smith proposed in his Wealth of the Nations. I act in what is my enlightened self interest. If a dude wants to give you $4500 for a $1500 clunker I'm sure that you'd take the cash and run, too. After all, its perfectly American.

Glad I could help you out with some of that $$, Sarge. As for "perfectly American," you might want to consider "perfectly ridiculous"....


But, KG, your web visage pretty well matches your avatar's--wild and edgy and thoroughly Republican. You make it fun to go toe to toe with you. Don't think you are going to make me a GOPer though. I'd sooner change my religion.

Regards.

I'm not sure I'd describe "Bill the Cat" as thoroughly Republican...not sure how "wild" I am, but I'll take "edgy" as a compliment.:razz:


With Cash For Clunkers now over, how will new vehicle dealers sell cars and trucks now?

New vehicle dealers are now getting ready for a big slow down as consumers have been trained to only buy when there are huge factory rebates. Now, those same huge factory rebates aren't enough to stimulate sales.

CFC may have stimualted business for one month but now the manufactorers and retailers are going to have to pay the devil.

Here's how, Franco...you may have seen it after your post: http://www.rbr.com/media-news/16555.html


If as you say, Clinton's deregulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were so bad, Why did Bush with his Republican Congress not change it. After all they did have 6 years to do it.

You tell me, Roger....you're the expert on every mistake Bush 43 ever made....:rolleyes:


This one is for you, Bob.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0707

That story is more than two years old, Sarge. Think anything's changed since then??? ;-)

kg

Franco
08-24-2009, 08:46 PM
Here's how, Franco...you may have seen it after your post: http://www.rbr.com/media-news/16555.html





I hadn't seen that. I'll have to check if nada.org has more on this.

IT IS CRAZY...just as in the clunker program, the incentatives are only asking for a minimum 2 mpg more!!!

All this boils down to is the gooberment subsidizing car purchases in an industry our gooberment has major ownership in. Talk about government gone wild.

What are we going to do when the dollar becomes worthless?

Just when I thought our government couldn't get any worse, they found a new low in Cash For Clunkers.:-x

zeus3925
08-24-2009, 08:57 PM
I get the impression you think your perspective may be more...how shall I say it...enlightened...than mine. Am I misreading your intent?

Yep, I said "differ". "Enlightened" was not used or implied.


Glad I could help you out with some of that $$, Sarge.

Thanks, KG, but, as I said before I have been taxed a plenty over the past 50 years. Glad to get a bit back.


That story is more than two years old, Sarge. .Think anything's changed since then??? ;-)

Not much. There is a declining difference between what is domestic and what is foreign.

Franco
08-24-2009, 09:18 PM
Not much. There is a declining difference between what is domestic and what is foreign.



You think Obama would have bailed out Nissan?

Don't think that we don't run up billions in trade deficits with the Asian car mfgs. annually.

zeus3925
08-24-2009, 09:34 PM
You think Obama would have bailed out Nissan?

Don't think that we don't run up billions in trade deficits with the Asian car mfgs. annually.

We run up huge trade deficits as we import more from than we export to those countries in all goods, cars are just part of the picture. It seems no one wants to address the disparity.

Franco
08-24-2009, 09:51 PM
It seems no one wants to address the disparity.




Yes they have. The American new vehicle buyer has been addressing it for many years. Our government didn't like the answer so they decide bailing out the UAW was more to thier liking.

Foreign mfgs have been building vehicles with better quality and design for decades now. Detroit decided to ignore it and now they are being rewarded with money that is being borrowed at the tax payers' expense.

Not only is this bad business, the new Gooberment Motors will not survive and along with it goes HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of our dollars needlessly.

K G
08-24-2009, 10:15 PM
Yep, I said "differ". "Enlightened" was not used or implied.

Just asking. Thanks for the clarification.


Thanks, KG, but, as I said before I have been taxed a plenty over the past 50 years. Glad to get a bit back.

Regardless of whether or not it comes off the backs of working stiffs who won't get to drive it and don't own it?


Not much. There is a declining difference between what is domestic and what is foreign.

I don't make cars and neither do you. American car makers have known since the early 80's that they needed to make a better product...GM and Chrysler suffered through managed bankruptcies because they WOULDN'T force concessions on the unions, unions wouldn't accept concessions, and they paid -ZERO- attention to what their foreign competitors were selling. Now Toyota outsells GM and VW is not far behind. The open market determines what will sell...manufacturers ignore the markets at their own peril.

kg

Bob Gutermuth
08-29-2009, 03:23 PM
Under the heading of There ain't no free lunch: according to a news blurb the other nite, those who got cash for their clunkers will have to reprot it as income on their 09 tax retrun. The govt giveth and the govt taketh away.

YardleyLabs
08-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Under the heading of There ain't no free lunch: according to a news blurb the other nite, those who got cash for their clunkers will have to reprot it as income on their 09 tax retrun. The govt giveth and the govt taketh away.
As I understand it, there is no liability for Federal taxes, but each state will have to determine if the rebate is subject to state income taxes.

Bob Gutermuth
08-29-2009, 04:11 PM
Jeff you are correct http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2105241/cash_for_clunkers_taxable_income_rumor.html

Another reason I don't believe very much of what the govt run media says.

Mike Noel
08-29-2009, 05:26 PM
Hey dude, just like every one else in the middle class I got soaked damn good and heavy on taxes for the last 50 years. Some of it went for a lot more foolish stuff than CFC. About time I got some of it back. Feel guilty?--Hell No!

Sarge, so I guess your complaint on taxes means you didn't think the Bush tax cuts were enough?:p:p:p:p

zeus3925
08-30-2009, 10:35 AM
Sarge, so I guess your complaint on taxes means you didn't think the Bush tax cuts were enough?:p:p:p:p

I'm not in the tax bracket where they had much of an impact.