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Ron Beck
08-26-2009, 09:05 AM
Seen the news? US Senator Ted (Ya Honah, when I got back to the bridge, Mary Jo and the cah were gone) Kennedy left to wander the Halls of Valhalla this morning. He will now be called to account for the DUI killing of that young girl and any number of other Kennedy "boys-will-be-boys" pecadillos over the years. I suspect his father, Joe, will be there to welcome him.

YardleyLabs
08-26-2009, 09:53 AM
Chappaquiddick will forever be part of Edward Kennedy's legacy. However, to judge him solely on that would be equivalent to judging GWB solely based on his history of cocaine use.

Obviously, a central part of Kennedy's legacy has been his deep commitment to speaking on behalf of those with the least power and wealth. A more important part of his legacy may be his gracious statesmanship in victory, defeat, and in forging alliances with people across the political spectrum on issue after issue.

In the words of Orrin Hatch:

“Today America lost a great elder statesman, a committed public servant, and leader of the Senate. And today I lost a treasured friend.

“Ted Kennedy was an iconic, larger than life United States Senator whose influence cannot be overstated. Many have come before, and many will come after, but Ted Kennedy’s name will always be remembered as someone who lived and breathed the United States Senate and the work completed within its chamber."

tpaschal30
08-26-2009, 10:25 AM
Chappaquiddick will forever be part of Edward Kennedy's legacy. However, to judge him solely on that would be equivalent to judging GWB solely based on his history of cocaine use.

Obviously, a central part of Kennedy's legacy has been his deep commitment to speaking on behalf of those with the least power and wealth. A more important part of his legacy may be his gracious statesmanship in victory, defeat, and in forging alliances with people across the political spectrum on issue after issue.

In the words of Orrin Hatch:

“Today America lost a great elder statesman, a committed public servant, and leader of the Senate. And today I lost a treasured friend.

“Ted Kennedy was an iconic, larger than life United States Senator whose influence cannot be overstated. Many have come before, and many will come after, but Ted Kennedy’s name will always be remembered as someone who lived and breathed the United States Senate and the work completed within its chamber."

Self abuse of cocaine is a far cry from never reporting a fatal accident. He found time to call several aids by not the authorities. It shows a complete disdain for the life of a human being. He put his career and reputation first. A true look into the soul of a socialist.

Buzz
08-26-2009, 10:41 AM
You all stay classy now...

tpaschal30
08-26-2009, 11:09 AM
You all stay classy now...

Ted was really, really classey allright. He and Dodd used to go out get liquored up and make waitress sandwiches.

Buzz
08-26-2009, 11:11 AM
Ted was really, really classey allright. He and Dodd used to go out get liquored up and make waitress sandwiches.


Like I said...

Ron Beck
08-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Yes, Buzz. I do have a lot of class; it's all second but I got lots of it.

Jeff, I understand what you say but TK was an amoral political figure who got and kept his position in the senate through the machinations of a wealthy, powerful family. That aside, he never truly took responsibility for MJK's death; and on that, yes, I judge him.

tpaschal30
08-26-2009, 11:23 AM
Like I said...

I guess you are ready to diefy, now that he has passed.

Marvin S
08-26-2009, 11:31 AM
Chappaquiddick will forever be part of Edward Kennedy's legacy. However, to judge him solely on that would be equivalent to judging GWB solely based on his history of cocaine use.

Obviously, a central part of Kennedy's legacy has been his deep commitment to speaking on behalf of those with the least power and wealth. A more important part of his legacy may be his gracious statesmanship in victory, defeat, and in forging alliances with people across the political spectrum on issue after issue.

Several years ago L'il Abner had quite a run about moving those hillbilly's close to the Kennedy compound. Quite funny & it showed just how much those silver spoon people care for the little guy. We could also talk of the lobotomy given to Rosemary, and why, prior to committing her. Small wonder Eunice made that her life's work, she was probably told to by Joe. Makes great PR.


In the words of Orrin Hatch:

“Today America lost a great elder statesman, a committed public servant, and leader of the Senate. And today I lost a treasured friend.

“Ted Kennedy was an iconic, larger than life United States Senator whose influence cannot be overstated. Many have come before, and many will come after, but Ted Kennedy’s name will always be remembered as someone who lived and breathed the United States Senate and the work completed within its chamber."

One of the reasons why I think Orrin Hatch is a joke. He would have said more by keeping his trap shut.

Franco
08-26-2009, 11:44 AM
Because of his money and clout, he was able to beat the system and not stand trial for Negligent Homicide.

He was never in touch with the little guy. Had be been so, he wouldn't have tried to tax them into oblivian.

Born with a silver spoon up his arse, Teddy was able to ride on the coat tails of his brother John and the family money.

Get ready for another media circus much like the Michael Jackson one.

AmiableLabs
08-26-2009, 12:29 PM
The only thing I know about Ted Kennedy's death today is.....



......Mary Jo Kopechne could not be reached for comment.:(

Steve Amrein
08-26-2009, 01:00 PM
Chappaquiddick will forever be part of Edward Kennedy's legacy. However, to judge him solely on that would be equivalent to judging GWB solely based on his history of cocaine use.

Obviously, a central part of Kennedy's legacy has been his deep commitment to speaking on behalf of those with the least power and wealth. A more important part of his legacy may be his gracious statesmanship in victory, defeat, and in forging alliances with people across the political spectrum on issue after issue.

In the words of Orrin Hatch:

“Today America lost a great elder statesman, a committed public servant, and leader of the Senate. And today I lost a treasured friend.

“Ted Kennedy was an iconic, larger than life United States Senator whose influence cannot be overstated. Many have come before, and many will come after, but Ted Kennedy’s name will always be remembered as someone who lived and breathed the United States Senate and the work completed within its chamber."


Why always Bush ? Why not bill and Monica ?

For someone that if self confesed as tollerant I dont get it.

My thoughts are that he will be judged by a higher power then the senate now. God have mercy on his soul. I have respect for him as a human but am glad we lost a career politician.

AmiableLabs
08-26-2009, 01:08 PM
Chappaquiddick will forever be part of Edward Kennedy's legacy. However, to judge him solely on that would be equivalent to judging GWB solely based on his history of cocaine use.
R-i-i-i-ght! One man's short term recreational use of an illegal drug is the "equivalent" of another man committing manslaughter out of self-concern.

What color is the sky where you live?

code3retrievers
08-26-2009, 01:12 PM
Chappaquiddick will forever be part of Edward Kennedy's legacy. However, to judge him solely on that would be equivalent to judging GWB solely based on his history of cocaine use.



Any respect I had for you which (was not much) is now gone. Bush has never admitted to cocaine use (unlike your current president) and there has not be one credible source or proof that he has. You are a typical cowardly liberal that is willing to slander any Republican at any chance. You pretend to be the level headed type but once again your bias shows through.

Buzz
08-26-2009, 01:21 PM
Any respect I had for you which (was not much) is now gone. Bush has never admitted to cocaine use (unlike your current president) and there has not be one credible source or proof that he has. You are a typical cowardly liberal that is willing to slander any Republican at any chance. You pretend to be the level headed type but once again your bias shows through.

Nice personal attack.

YardleyLabs
08-26-2009, 01:47 PM
Any respect I had for you which (was not much) is now gone. Bush has never admitted to cocaine use (unlike your current president) and there has not be one credible source or proof that he has. You are a typical cowardly liberal that is willing to slander any Republican at any chance. You pretend to be the level headed type but once again your bias shows through.
Would you be happier if I said drunk driving and a shoddy military record? I may be, in you terms, a "cowardly liberal", but at least I post complete information on who I am and where to find me. You might want to consider doing the same if you wish to launch personal attacks.

The point of my comment was very simple. Ted Kennedy acted like an ass at Chappaquiddick. I haven't seen anything suggesting that he was guilty of manslaughter, but he was clearly driving in a fatal accident and failed to report the accident until he appeared at the police station at 10 AM the following day after the wrecked car and body had already been discovered. There is no excuse for such behavior as he himself said.

In the 40 years since then, he did a number of things in both his public and private life. In his public life, it is notable that he was among the most trusted of Senators from either party. As John McCain noted, he never broke a promise -- not a common trait among politicians. As a younger man he lived a questionable life and clearly abused his privilege. He shares that background with GWB among others. As an adult he certainly appears to have changed his life and become a man of compassion, charity and integrity. For that he deserves credit just as GWB deserves credit for the changes he made in his life after he stopped abusive drinking in 1986. If you are incapable of separating political belief from recognition of character, the loss is yours.

"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32

tpaschal30
08-26-2009, 02:02 PM
For me it is hard to believe anyone on the left can complain about any truthful remarks, but negative, about the deceased Senator. considering the blast of false mud and crap that was heaped not just on Palin, but her children. Kennedy had a long and distinguished history as a drunk and womanizer. One of my favorites during a European vacation, was photographed having a sexual incounter in a motorboat.

Alabama senator Howell Heflin joked he was glad to see Kennedy had "changed his position on offshore drilling."

AmiableLabs
08-26-2009, 02:13 PM
The point of my comment was very simple. Ted Kennedy acted like an ass at Chappaquiddick. I haven't seen anything suggesting that he was guilty of manslaughter,. . . .
You haven't "seen anything?" Then you need to do further research --

Teddy was drunk driving when the accident happened. That is why he did not call the police right away, but did call aides who advised him not to call police as it would spend the end of his political career. Witnesses at his hotel said he was acting inebriated, and even though wet from the river, his breath still reeked of Scotch. Drunk driving leading to a death equals manslaughter.

But Teddy made sure his being inebriated could not be proven. Fine. Because of an air pocket in the upside-down vehicle, all evidence is that Mary Jo survived for at least enough time for him to get help to save her. He didn't. That also equals manslaughter.

AmiableLabs
08-26-2009, 02:18 PM
http://www.examiner.com/x-5919-Norfolk-Crime-Examiner~y2009m7d17-40th-anniversary-of-Mary-Jo-Kopechnes-drowning-at-ChappaquiddickKennedys-story-still-doubtful (http://www.examiner.com/x-5919-Norfolk-Crime-Examiner%7Ey2009m7d17-40th-anniversary-of-Mary-Jo-Kopechnes-drowning-at-ChappaquiddickKennedys-story-still-doubtful)

"It was obvious to most people that
Kennedy had allowed a young girl to
drown, in a desperate and self-serving
attempt to protect his political career."

= manslaughter

Eric Johnson
08-26-2009, 02:32 PM
...and a shoddy military record?

Not that old dead fish about not serving in SE Asia. It ain't true except to liberals and Dan Rather. Ex-President Bush was a volunteer for duty in SEA but he had insufficient flying hours to go. By the time he had the hours, that aircraft wasn't deploying.

>>Mapes had information prior to the airing of the September 8 [2004] Segment that President Bush, while in the TexANG [Texas Air National Guard] did volunteer for service in Vietnam but was turned down in favor of more experienced pilots. For example, a flight instructor who served in the TexANG with Lieutenant Bush advised Mapes in 1999 that Lieutenant Bush “did want to go to Vietnam but others went first.” Similarly, several others advised Mapes in 1999, and again in 2004 before September 8, that Lieutenant Bush had volunteered to go to Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify.<<

See the whole report at: http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/content/2009/08/25/a-lost-fact-in-the-rathergate-mess-part-1/

By the way, this is from the report that CBS commissioned on the incident.

Eric

YardleyLabs
08-26-2009, 02:33 PM
You haven't "seen anything?" Then you need to do further research --

Teddy was drunk driving when the accident happened. That is why he did not call the police right away, but did call aides who advised him not to call police as it would spend the end of his political career. Witnesses at his hotel said he was acting inebriated, and even though wet from the river, his breath still reeked of Scotch. Drunk driving leading to a death equals manslaughter.

But Teddy made sure his being inebriated could not be proven. Fine. Because of an air pocket in the upside-down vehicle, all evidence is that Mary Jo survived for at least enough time for him to get help to save her. He didn't. That also equals manslaughter.
The diver who ultimately pulled MJ's body from the wreck said that, from the position of the body, he believed there might have been an air pocket. Had he been able to reach her within 25 minutes of the accident, he testified that it was possible she could have been rescued. Given the time and location of the accident, it is doubtful that a fully equipped diver could have gotten to her within 25 minutes. I also suspect that both Kennedy and MJ had been drinking given the nature of the party.

Personally, I see no reason to try to defend the indefensible by whatever name you choose to call it. My personal feelings at the time were that Teddy was clearly the weakest of the four brothers. In my mind, that makes his achievements over the next 40 years even more remarkable. I never would have considered him to be capable of salvaging his life and finding a niche where he could play an important role and win the respect of so many of his political opponents.

My condolences to his family and those who loved him.

road kill
08-26-2009, 02:41 PM
Couple of interesting items;

#1--Ted Kennedy introduced a bill to the MA legislature to PROHIBIT the Governer to immediately appoint a successor to a vacant Senate seat. John Kerry was the Senator that may have gotten elected President leaving said vacancy. Mitt Romney was the Governor. State Leg. acquiesced approve a 5 month waiting period and an election process. Last week Senator Kennedy sent a letter to the MA State Leg. asking for a REVOCATION of that bill so that a Senator could be appointed by the Governor immediately in the event of a vacant seat. Guess whop is Governor now??

#2--President Bush actually VOLUNTEERED for pilot duty in Viet Nam. He was turned down because he didn't have enough hours. Rather's producer (Mapes?) new this. It is a matter of record and is on page 131 of the report from NBC.

#3--I am no bleeding heart liberal, Ted Kennedy--R.I.P.

stan b & Elvis

BonMallari
08-26-2009, 02:46 PM
The Kennedy family lost a husband,father,grandfather and uncle today...I think we should all let them mourn in peace

I will refrain from my personal feelings on the person till another day

Franco
08-26-2009, 03:05 PM
"It was obvious to most people that
Kennedy had allowed a young girl to
drown, in a desperate and self-serving
attempt to protect his political career."

= manslaughter

In honor of Teddy K, "I propose a toast to that".

TK represented much of what is wrong in Washington DC. Born into a wealthy family, a man without talent, without wisdom, without common sense weilds influence across America. He was a drunk all his life and never represented an original thought. He was a typical northeastern liberal that lived a sheltered life and never worked a real job or day in his life. He was never in touch with the backbone of the USA! As far as I am concerned, there is one less drunk on the road.

Roger Perry
08-26-2009, 03:06 PM
Not that old dead fish about not serving in SE Asia. It ain't true except to liberals and Dan Rather. Ex-President Bush was a volunteer for duty in SEA but he had insufficient flying hours to go. By the time he had the hours, that aircraft wasn't deploying.

>>Mapes had information prior to the airing of the September 8 [2004] Segment that President Bush, while in the TexANG [Texas Air National Guard] did volunteer for service in Vietnam but was turned down in favor of more experienced pilots. For example, a flight instructor who served in the TexANG with Lieutenant Bush advised Mapes in 1999 that Lieutenant Bush “did want to go to Vietnam but others went first.” Similarly, several others advised Mapes in 1999, and again in 2004 before September 8, that Lieutenant Bush had volunteered to go to Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify.<<

See the whole report at: http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/content/2009/08/25/a-lost-fact-in-the-rathergate-mess-part-1/

By the way, this is from the report that CBS commissioned on the incident.

Eric

If you have proof go for it. The money is waiting for you.
(CNN) -- The founder of the group Texans for Truth said Tuesday that he is offering $50,000 to anyone who can prove President Bush fulfilled his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/14/bush.texans/index.html

road kill
08-26-2009, 03:11 PM
If you have proof go for it. The money is waiting for you.
(CNN) -- The founder of the group Texans for Truth said Tuesday that he is offering $50,000 to anyone who can prove President Bush fulfilled his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/14/bush.texans/index.html


Is that anything like providing a valid Birth Certificate?

Just askin.......

Franco
08-26-2009, 03:12 PM
If you have proof go for it. The money is waiting for you.
(CNN) -- The founder of the group Texans for Truth said Tuesday that he is offering $50,000 to anyone who can prove President Bush fulfilled his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/14/bush.texans/index.html

Bush was a loser too, what's the point?

Is this the best the Obama lovers can do? That they need to bring up Bush to deflect attention from the idiot Democrat?

AmiableLabs
08-26-2009, 03:24 PM
If you have proof go for it. The money is waiting for you.
(CNN) -- The founder of the group Texans for Truth said Tuesday that he is offering $50,000 to anyone who can prove President Bush fulfilled his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/14/bush.texans/index.html
Roger, can you PLEASE explain your logic -- how does that follow?

From where I sit Eric made NO SUCH CLAIM. Eric said that CBS's own internal report into Rathergate says "Bush volunteered to fly in the Vietnamese conflict," he didn't try and avoid it as liberals accused.

You interpret that to mean that Eric is claiming -- "Bush fulfilled all his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972."

Please explain your logic. It is lost on me. Thank you.

road kill
08-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Roger, can you PLEASE explain your logic -- how does that follow?

From where I sit Eric made NO SUCH CLAIM. Eric said that CBS's own internal report into Rathergate says "Bush volunteered to fly in the Vietnamese conflict," he didn't try and avoid it as liberals accused.

You interpret that to mean that Eric is claiming -- "Bush fulfilled all his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972."

Please explain your logic. It is lost on me. Thank you.

He hates Bush.

code3retrievers
08-26-2009, 03:35 PM
Jeff,

Do you want all my personal info or just name and city. Its not like I have ever tried to post anonymously.

You call others out when they don't post the facts or make a mistake, but you offer your opinion as if it were fact.

I just think its sleazy to attack even a public figure with unfounded accusations and then pretend you are above it all. Feel free to talk about GW's drinking (he's admitted that he had a problem). As far as military record I think your buddy Dan Rather was already burned on that one.

I am sure you have heard the rumors of Obama's personal short comings but they are unfounded and it would not be appropriate for someone to state them like they were fact.

It sure would be nice if he released his educational records (I wounder why he doesn't) All other presidential candidates have.


John Abramson
Waddell, AZ

Eric Johnson
08-26-2009, 04:28 PM
If you have proof go for it.

That may be the most irrelevant message ever posted. The CNN story is from Sept 2004 and ties to the message I posted how? .... through the CBS story which is about how the story has been disclaimed by CBS and has been shown by CBS to be the work of a (politeness setting in) .... overly-ambitious staffer. IOW, the whole thing is coming unraveled.

But....I didn't say anything about serving in the Alabama Nat Guard. I spoke of the time when he was in TX. No one has a shred of proof to back claims that he was missing while he was assigned to the TX ANG. As I recall, it was reported that he routinely was on alert in 24 hour cycles. Ahem...do the math, one or two alert duties would cover a month of required attendance.

However, let's get a this straight even though the media won't talk of it or even check for the truth.

1. The TX Guard was flying F104's when Lt Bush was there.

2. The AL Guard was flying F-4's and RF-4's when Lt Bush came here. Lt Bush would not have been allowed to fly AL ANG aircraft without going through transition training which was where.....? I don't know but it wasn't here in Montgomery. Thus Mr. Bush could not fly when he was in AL until he had a slot for transition and those were programmed maybe a year in advance.

Much has been made of him not being able to prove attendance. The attendance record is a unit record, not a personal record. Why haven't any unit records been produced that show him absent? Probably because the records may have been destroyed following the Air Force records retention policy.

Let's just call it even for a birth certificate.

Eric

Steve Amrein
08-26-2009, 04:31 PM
For those of us who know right from wrong do not buy into any argument that excuses bad behavior as justification for bad behavior. So when a topic come up such as this saying yeah but GW did........ doesn't excuse it. Its not relevant factual or not.

Its like saying its OK what ted bundy did because of what jeffry dahlmer did.

Art Geddes
08-26-2009, 04:35 PM
Roger Perry posted:

"The founder of the group Texans for Truth said Tuesday that he is offering $50,000 to anyone who can prove President Bush fulfilled his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972."

An honorable discharge, also known as a DD214 should be considered proof. Would this be accepted a vialid proof? Mine states I fulfilled my duty honorably. President Bush's does also. Have not seen Obama's, Cliinton's or Ted Kennedy's.

Art

TXduckdog
08-26-2009, 06:29 PM
Chappaquiddick will forever be part of Edward Kennedy's legacy. However, to judge him solely on that would be equivalent to judging GWB solely based on his history of cocaine use.

"


Jeff.....now you've gone from a simple jacka$$ to a dumb one.

My God, man. He admitted to drunken driving...leaving the scene of an accident....at best he committed vehicular manslaughter. At worst, 2nd degree murder.

Part of his legacy...you bet your sweet bippie.

Goose
08-26-2009, 09:01 PM
So just like that we now have KennedyCare. I guess a dead Ted is worth more to Mrs. Pelosi than a live Ted as she tries again to rally the democrats to vote for a bill so near and dear to Kennedy's heart. I mean we all know how much Teddy cared about healthcare for the poor, the wretched and the less privileged. Unless of course your name was Mary Jo in which case he cared nothing at all about your health.

Maybe San Fran Nan can hold a bill signing ceremony on Sen. Kennedy's coffin as it's lying in state.

YardleyLabs
08-26-2009, 09:35 PM
Jeff.....now you've gone from a simple jacka$$ to a dumb one.

My God, man. He admitted to drunken driving...leaving the scene of an accident....at best he committed vehicular manslaughter. At worst, 2nd degree murder.

Part of his legacy...you bet your sweet bippie.
Just for the record, he said alcohol and drunken driving were not a factor. The bridge involved was a wooden slat bridge at an angle to the road. It was unlighted and had no sides or side markers. You can find a nice summary on Wikipedia plus police reports, etc. are still available on line. I don't necessarily believe that alcohol was not involved since, in my experience, most drunks say the same thing. However, he did not admit to drunken driving as you stated. I withdrew my comment on cocaine use by GWB on the same basis and suggested substituting GWB's alcohol abuse and DUI, which he has admitted, and his shoddy military record, which is thoroughly documented in his military file even after editing.

The fact is that both Kennedy and GWB were drunken louts in their youth and both went on to become something much greater than their earlier behavior would have led one to expect. While I disagree with GWB on almost every possible issue and believe he was one of our worst Presidents ever, there is no question that, as a man, he became a leader of substance who deserves some level of respect. While I agree with much of Kennedy's priorities and politics, there is no question that he was a man of flawed character. However, he too became a leader of substance who deserves some level of respect. There are few, if any, on this forum who can claim to have contributed as much to our country as either man or to have made as many personal sacrifices for our country.

Raymond Little
08-26-2009, 09:42 PM
Been better off if ole teddy would have been the one left in the car.;)

dnf777
08-26-2009, 09:45 PM
Just for the record, he said alcohol and drunken driving were not a factor. The bridge involved was a wooden slat bridge at an angle to the road. It was unlighted and had no sides or side markers. You can find a nice summary on Wikipedia plus police reports, etc. are still available on line. I don't necessarily believe that alcohol was not involved since, in my experience, most drunks say the same thing. However, he did not admit to drunken driving as you stated. I withdrew my comment on cocaine use by GWB on the same basis and suggested substituting GWB's alcohol abuse and DUI, which he has admitted, and his shoddy military record, which is thoroughly documented in his military file even after editing.

The fact is that both Kennedy and GWB were drunken louts in their youth and both went on to become something much greater than their earlier behavior would have led one to expect. While I disagree with GWB on almost every possible issue and believe he was one of our worst Presidents ever, there is no question that, as a man, he became a leader of substance who deserves some level of respect. While I agree with much of Kennedy's priorities and politics, there is no question that he was a man of flawed character. However, he too became a leader of substance who deserves some level of respect. There are few, if any, on this forum who can claim to have contributed as much to our country as either man or to have made as many personal sacrifices for our country.

It would probably be more relavent to compare Laura Bush to Ted Kennedy, when it comes to personal tragedy, whether or not alcohol played any role in their respective accidents. She also became a very influential person, who in my estimate, contributed more good to this country than her husband.

subroc
08-27-2009, 05:58 AM
A headline I found linked to a story. Take from it what you will.



Dodd says he will carry on Ted Kennedy's life work

Gerry Clinchy
08-27-2009, 08:19 AM
It would probably be more relavent to compare Laura Bush to Ted Kennedy, when it comes to personal tragedy, whether or not alcohol played any role in their respective accidents. She also became a very influential person, who in my estimate, contributed more good to this country than her husband.

Perhaps Laura and Ted are equal in facing tragedy in their lives, but I think Laura far outstrips Ted in the character department. One could say that it was Laura's depth of character that played a strong role in bringing GW to what he came to be. I think he also acknowledged her impact on his life.

Ted may have been instrumental in legislation that had a positive effect, but I don't think one could call his service "sacrifice" for his country. In spite of his irresponsible acts, that extended till he was about as old as Jeff, he got power and recognition for his efforts. In truth, each of our soldiers who are serving now could be said to have made a greater sacrifice for their country, and will get far less in return than Ted got.

Ron Beck
08-27-2009, 08:20 AM
"personal sacrifice"??? Ted Kennedy???? WHAT??!!

In my opinion, the only "personal sacrifice" around TK was that of MJK and possibly the victims of any number of late term abortions which he supported. I wonder, as a good Catholic, did he have to go to confession every week in order to clear up the misunderstanding with God about his hypocritical stance on murdering the unborn.

What personal sacrifice?

Buzz
08-27-2009, 09:29 AM
"personal sacrifice"??? Ted Kennedy???? WHAT??!!

What personal sacrifice?

The loss of three brothers comes to mind. He was wealthy and really didn't need to work a day in his life, but instead he was instrumental in:



Head Start
-- Provided meals and early education to pre-school children through the Employee Opportunity Act.

Hart-Cellar Act:
-- Changed immigration policy to abolish quotas and lift a 1924 ban on immigration from Asia.

Bilingual Education Act
-- Mandated for schools to provide bilingual education programs.

Voting Age
-- Lowered the age to vote to 18.

Federal Cancer Research Program
-- Quadrupled the amount of money spent by the federal government to fight cancer.

Meals on Wheels
-- Strengthened the federal program offering nutritional meals to homebound seniors.

WIC
-- Offered food, nutrition counseling and health services to low-income women, infants, and children.

Title IX
-- Demanded equal funding for men's and women's athletics on college campuses.

Campaign Finance
-- Imposed limits on contributions to political candidates and set up a public financing option, post-Watergate.

Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)
-- Guaranteed free and appropriate public education to children with disabilities.

Civil Rights Commission Act Amendments
-- Expanded the jurisdiction of the Civil Rights Commission to protect people from discrimination on the basis of disability.

Airline Deregulation
-- Allowed airlines to choose their own fares, reducing costs for consumers.

Refugee Act
-- Established a U.S. policy for providing humanitarian assistance, admission and resettlement to refugees around the world.

Fuel Assistance
-- Provided home heating fuel for low-income and working poor families.

Martin Luther King Day
-- Established a national holiday to celebrate Martin Luther King's birthday.

Improved Access to Polling Stations
-- Required polling stations to provide physical accessibility for physically disabled and elderly people on federal election days.

Employment Opportunities for Disabled Americans Act
-- Allowed disabled workers to receive SSI benefits and Medicaid coverage.

Anti-Apartheid Sanctions
-- Banned the purchase of gold, coal, iron, and other goods from South Africa to protest apartheid.

Even Start
-- Offered early education, family literacy and related services to disadvantaged parents and their children.

Fair Housing Act Amendments
-- Prohibited discrimination towards people with disabilities in the sale or rental of housing.

National Military Child Care Act
-- Established the Department of Defense child care system.

Americans with Disabilities Act
-- Prohibited discrimination against any qualified individual with a disability in job application procedures, hiring or discharge, compensation, advancement and training.

Ryan White CARE Act
-- Provided assistance to states to develop effective and cost-efficient AIDS care programs, aimed particularly at early diagnosis and home care.

Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty
-- Halved the world's nuclear arsenal through cooperation with the U.S.S.R.

Women in Combat
-- Lifted the ban on women serving as combat aviators.

Summer Jobs for Youth Program
-- Appropriated $500 million to give 300,000 youth with summer employment.

Mammography Quality Standards Act
-- Ensured the safety and accuracy of mammograms and promoted the use of the procedure

National and Community Service Trust Act
-- Created AmeriCorps and the Corporation for National and Community Service to help expand volunteerism and education grants for students who choose to volunteer for service after college.

Student Loans
-- Allowed students to borrow money for college directly from the federal government.

Family and Medical Leave Act
-- Provided up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave for family emergencies or after the birth of infants.

Crime Act
-- Secured funding for 100,000 new police officers, imposed new penalties for crimes involving gangs and firearms and authorized the Police Corps, a program to award college scholarships to students in return for a commitment to serve as police officers.

Kennedy-Kassebaum Act
-- Enabled employees to keep health insurance after leaving their job and prohibited insurance companies from refusing to renew coverage on the basis of preexisting medical conditions.

Mental Health Parity Bill
-- Eliminated limits on mental health coverage that differ from other covered illnesses.

Temporary Assistance to Needy Families Act
-- Established Welfare-to-Work Initiatives to reduce the number of families dependent on government assistance.

1996/2007: Minimum Wage

-- Increased the minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.15 in 1996, and then again from $5.15 in 2007 to $7.25 by 2009.

State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
-- Supported state efforts to provide health insurance to uninsured children in low-income families.

Minority Health and Health Disparities Research and Education Act
-- Improved data systems and research on the extent and severity of minority health problems, and authorized significant resources to help enhance the delivery of health care to minorities.

2000 Public Health Threats and Emergencies Act

-- Introduced initiatives to control the spread of germs resistant to antibiotics, and to protect the country against bioterrorism.

No Child Left Behind Act
-- Required more rigorous testing of public school students and permitted parents to transfer their children from low-performing to higher-performing schools.

Bioterrorism Preparedness Act
-- Established plan to help the country prevent, prepare for and respond to bioterrorism and other public health emergencies.

Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act
-- Expanded the country's intelligence and law enforcement capabilities to help identify individuals who have violated visas or have links to terrorist organizations.

Up-Armored Humvees
-- Provided funding for additional armor for military vehicles to meet the safety needs of American troops.

PROTECT Act
-- Provided funding for AMBER Alert notification systems along U.S. highways and awarded grants to states for the implementation of improved communication technologies.

Gulf Coast Recovery and Preparedness Act
-- Provided emergency funding to assist in the recovery efforts after Hurricane Katrina.

Family Opportunity Act
-- Provided states the opportunity to expand Medicaid coverage to children with special needs and allowed low- and middle-income families with disabled children the ability to purchase coverage under the Medicaid program.

Ron Beck
08-27-2009, 09:41 AM
Sorry, I haven't been able to complete the Great American novel you sent but maybe you can just point me to the "personal sacrifice" part. We've all lost family members; but I don't think that constitutes my focus/point: personal sacrifice.

dnf777
08-27-2009, 09:49 AM
"personal sacrifice"??? Ted Kennedy???? WHAT??!!

In my opinion, the only "personal sacrifice" around TK was that of MJK and possibly the victims of any number of late term abortions which he supported. I wonder, as a good Catholic, did he have to go to confession every week in order to clear up the misunderstanding with God about his hypocritical stance on murdering the unborn.

What personal sacrifice?

He did not commit or encourage any abortions. He worked within the confines of our laws to enable women to make their OWN CHOICE. Blaming him for abortions is like blaming Glock for drive-by shootings! It's absurd not to place responsibility where it belongs. (not surprising though)

TCFarmer
08-27-2009, 10:04 AM
The diver who ultimately pulled MJ's body from the wreck said that, from the position of the body, he believed there might have been an air pocket. Had he been able to reach her within 25 minutes of the accident, he testified that it was possible she could have been rescued. Given the time and location of the accident, it is doubtful that a fully equipped diver could have gotten to her within 25 minutes. I also suspect that both Kennedy and MJ had been drinking given the nature of the party.



Actually, the diver found Mary Jo's body 20 minutes after the car was discovered. He also said that he believed Mary Jo may have been able to survive for up to two hours.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cP0NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zXsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4079,182936

Ron Beck
08-27-2009, 10:43 AM
Umm, I think I said he supported (programs that provided for) late term abortions; not that he actually "committed" them. The AMA frowns on medical procedures being performed by intoxicated persons.

To lend the powerful support of his office to the premise that it's acceptable to murder a viable, unborn human being is what gives people like Peter Singer his credibility among academics and certain government officials. I think that does place responsibility where it belongs. Am I going too fast?

I continue to seek to learn about the "personal sacrifices", however.

dnf777
08-27-2009, 11:59 AM
Umm, I think I said he supported (programs that provided for) late term abortions; not that he actually "committed" them. The AMA frowns on medical procedures being performed by intoxicated persons.

To lend the powerful support of his office to the premise that it's acceptable to murder a viable, unborn human being is what gives people like Peter Singer his credibility among academics and certain government officials. I think that does place responsibility where it belongs. Am I going too fast?

I continue to seek to learn about the "personal sacrifices", however.

Me, personally, I'm against abortion. So I'm not gonna have one.
Can we agree on that?

Im not going into a debate on abortion. Finding out most people think the world is 6000 years old convinced me that there's no sense in arguing some topics, and abortion tops the list. Like I said, I'm personally against it, so I'm not getting one. The fact I'm a male makes it easy to stick to my virtues on this one.

YardleyLabs
08-27-2009, 01:00 PM
Actually, the diver found Mary Jo's body 20 minutes after the car was discovered. He also said that he believed Mary Jo may have been able to survive for up to two hours.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cP0NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zXsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4079,182936
His actual comment was that had a call been made within 5-10 minutes of the accident and had he been able to reach the victim within 25 minutes, she might still have been alive. As it was, the testimony was that Kennedy spent a fair amount of time diving to try to get into the car to pull her out before leaving the scene. While the house light may have been on at the nearest house, there is no reason to believe that Kennedy knew that the house was there.

Personally I was once in accident where my then fiance and I ended up in a swamp in the middle of nowhere (Rt 52W a few miles outside of Walden NY). As it happens, there was a house a couple of hundred yards away with its lights on. We found it about 30-40 minutes after the accident and only because it was mid winter and the trees had no leaves. Five to ten of those minutes were spent trying to figure out how to lock up the car before we finally figured out that we couldn't roll up the windows because there weren't any. No alcohol was involved. A lot of shock and confusion were. Once we got to the house, it was good that the residents took over. We were apparently not the first people to walk out of that swamp. I doubt that we could even have told the police where we were even though we were only a few miles from my fiance's apartment and were actually thinking about walking back to her apartment instead of going to the nearby house. We probably would have had my fiance not been bleeding. By the time the police arrived on scene, it was already 1 1/2 hours after the accident. I would never try to excuse what Kennedy did following that accident. However, from my own experiences I am also not willing to be too judgmental. The incident was what it was. It was part of his life, but it was not his whole life.

Bob Gutermuth
08-27-2009, 01:04 PM
I would love to know how much hush money was paid out to the next of kin to Ms Kopechne.

Gun_Dog2002
08-27-2009, 01:18 PM
The loss of three brothers comes to mind. He was wealthy and really didn't need to work a day in his life, but instead he was instrumental in:

Not one of these items would have occurred had he been properly disciplined for his behavior involving the young girls death. Anyone else in this country who made a decision to let a young girl die when there was any chance of saving her would be on trial for murder. At minimum he would have been convicted of manslaughter which would have ruined his political career if not outright disqualified him for serving in th Senate. Course had he just driven a Volkswagen he could have avoided the whole thing....

http://homepage.mac.com/mr_bingley/.Pictures/tedvwsmall.jpg

Roger Perry
08-27-2009, 01:33 PM
Jeff.....now you've gone from a simple jacka$$ to a dumb one.


I did not think personal attacks were allowed here.

Buzz
08-27-2009, 01:37 PM
I did not think personal attacks were allowed here.

Roger, around here, if you're not a wingnut, you are guaranteed to be personally attacked.

YardleyLabs
08-27-2009, 01:38 PM
I would love to know how much hush money was paid out to the next of kin to Ms Kopechne.
Bob,

You and I both have daughters similar in age to Mary Jo. I can't imagine any amount of money that would convince either you or me to be quiet if we believed that someone were responsible for killing one of our daughters. Hopefully Mary Jo had parents who were similarly committed to their child. According to public records, they received at total of about $140,000 from as a result of the accident: $50k from insurance, and $90+k from Kennedy. They stated at the time that they did not take any separate action against Kennedy because they were afraid it would look like they were seeking blood money.

Ron Beck
08-27-2009, 01:41 PM
Me, personally, I'm against abortion. So I'm not gonna have one.
Can we agree on that?

Im not going into a debate on abortion. Finding out most people think the world is 6000 years old convinced me that there's no sense in arguing some topics, and abortion tops the list. Like I said, I'm personally against it, so I'm not getting one. The fact I'm a male makes it easy to stick to my virtues on this one.

AHA! I finally figured out how to put stuff in the little box just in time to leave. I would say, "Turn out the lights when you go." but I think some of us have been in the dark for a while already.

Bob Gutermuth
08-27-2009, 01:42 PM
I cannot imagine that there was not hush money paid. Its a family tradition to grease the skids, how else did Joe Sr. stay out of jail when he was a rum runner?

K G
08-27-2009, 01:43 PM
Roger, around here, if you're not a wingnut, you are guaranteed to be personally attacked.

You sure about this, Buzz? Unless, of course, you folks to the left feel like anytime you're disagreed with, you're being attacked....;-)

Not the place for thin skin regards,

kg

Roger Perry
08-27-2009, 02:04 PM
MSNBC Interview with John McCain
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32578617#32578617

Gun_Dog2002
08-27-2009, 02:43 PM
Bob,

You and I both have daughters similar in age to Mary Jo. I can't imagine any amount of money that would convince either you or me to be quiet if we believed that someone were responsible for killing one of our daughters. Hopefully Mary Jo had parents who were similarly committed to their child. According to public records, they received at total of about $140,000 from as a result of the accident: $50k from insurance, and $90+k from Kennedy. They stated at the time that they did not take any separate action against Kennedy because they were afraid it would look like they were seeking blood money.

Do you really think that the Kennedy's didn't put pressure on the family to "make this go away?"

/Paul

dnf777
08-27-2009, 02:47 PM
AHA! I finally figured out how to put stuff in the little box just in time to leave. I would say, "Turn out the lights when you go." but I think some of us have been in the dark for a while already.

???????????????

Roger Perry
08-27-2009, 03:22 PM
You sure about this, Buzz? Unless, of course, you folks to the left feel like anytime you're disagreed with, you're being attacked....;-)

Not the place for thin skin regards,

kg


Calling someone a dumb jackass because you do not agree with that person is a personal attack.

Do the words be civil or be banned ring a bell?

I guess if you are not a republican you are either a dumb jackass or liberal.

Former republican regards.

Steve Amrein
08-27-2009, 03:41 PM
Calling someone a dumb jackass because you do not agree with that person is a personal attack.

Do the words be civil or be banned ring a bell?

I guess if you are not a republican you are either a jackass or liberal.

Former republican regards.


Jackazz, Teabagger, Nazi, Racist, Homophobe, Militia member,Brownshirt, Homegrown Terrorist, Christian extremist.

All of these have been thrown out before. I dont think most posting here should be throwing stones in this glass house.

TCFarmer
08-27-2009, 11:43 PM
Farrar said that she lived for at least 2 hours. Had Kennedy or his buddies called the police the story may have had a very different ending.

Kennedy's failure to seek help immediately may have cost Kopechne her life. It took only 20 minutes for John Farrar, head of search and rescue for the Edgartown volunteer fire department, to reach the scene once he was notified—at 8:25 the next morning. Donning scuba gear, Farrar found the body of Kopechne in the overturned car, her hands clasping the backseat, her face turned upward to the footwell above her. "It looked as if she were holding herself up to get a last breath of air," says Farrar, 52, the manager of a burglar-alarm store. "It was a consciously assumed position." Farrar believes the car had contained an air pocket, and that Kopechne "lived for at least two hours down there." But Farrar says he was never given a chance at the inquest to explain what he saw. "I was told outright by the D.A.'s office that I would not be allowed to testify on how long Kopechne was alive in the car. They were not interested in the least in anything that would hurt Ted Kennedy."

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20120819,00.html

Gerry Clinchy
08-28-2009, 10:59 AM
He was wealthy and really didn't need to work a day in his life,

I believe it is more than money that motivates those to remain active in political life. There is no question that "power" plays a role for many of our politicians. And TK wielded a lot of that as a result of the history of his two older brothers.

All his life, TK lived in the shadow of his brothers. Once they were gone, he had the stage to himself. I think he was probably a likable, even charming, guy. And I'm sure he had some good intentions for helping those less fortunate than himself. He was not an unfeeling sociopath, certainly. OTOH, without his Kennedy name I really doubt that he would have gained the stature he did. And I really doubt he would have escaped the consequences of Chappaquidick so easily either. We ought not forget that Jack and Bobby were no angels either in their personal lives.

BonMallari
08-28-2009, 02:11 PM
JFK and RFK were skirt chasers too, but the media portrays them as heroes for their sexual exploits because of the company they kept...I always wonder in todays world if they would have been allowed to get away with the same indescretions