BaucusCare..... [Archive] - RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF

: BaucusCare.....

09-09-2009, 12:08 PM
Some interesting analysis from the WSJ.....You need to read this....

No doubt President Obama will tell Congress this evening that we're on the cusp of an historic moment in the history of American health care, and it's hard to disagree. Namely, ObamaCare may finally finish the work of converting health care into a largely government responsibility.

At least that's the conclusion from reading the supposedly moderate health overhaul laid out over the weekend by Max Baucus, the Senate Finance Chairman. Washington is heralding the $880 billion plan as a compromise and political breakthrough, because it dumps the public-option insurance entitlement for the middle class. But according to the Baucus "framework," it still keeps all the other cogs of ObamaCare in place. In other words, Congress—and therefore politics—will dictate the decisions of insurance companies, doctors, hospitals and others, while also increasing the government's share of the nation's medical spending as it adds hundreds of billions in new health-care liabilities to the federal balance sheet.

Insurers will become government contractors, essentially in the business of carrying out political demands. The Baucus framework explicitly standardizes benefits and then decides how those benefits should be paid for, including curbs on cost-sharing and premium variation. In the individual and small-business markets, only four tiers of plans will be legal, despite consumers with vastly different needs and preferences, while "No health insurance policies could be issued (other than grandfathered plans) that do not meet the actuarial standards set for these plans."

Under an "individual mandate," everyone who isn't covered by an employer will be required to buy this government-approved coverage. Refundable, advanceable tax credits—basically upfront cash payments—will flow on a sliding scale to those earning up to 300% of the poverty line, or about $66,000 for a family of four. Businesses, which will also face restrictions on the types of policies they are allowed to offer, will have to pay a tax equal to the value of these subsidies if they don't offer coverage to their employees.

The Baucus plan turns around and foots the bill for these subsidies by imposing a 35% excise tax on any insurance company offering plans that cost more than $8,000 for singles and $21,000 for families. This Rube Goldberg proposal is in play because Democrats don't want to touch the open-ended tax exclusion that allows business to offer insurance coverage tax-free but also has the effect of insulating consumers from costs and benefits.

Organized labor has ruled out any changes on this front, given that many of the most generous policies come through union-negotiated contracts. So instead of tailoring reform to encourage more cost-conscious individual choices, Mr. Baucus instead imposes an across-the-board tax that will be passed down to all consumers and thus drive insurance costs higher for everyone. This tax will be levied on top of a separate, annual $6 billion assessment on insurers, $4 billion on medical device makers, and $2.3 billion on the pharmaceutical industry.

Government will also determine what counts as value and quality care among providers, for instance, by "penalizing physicians who utilize significantly more resources than their peers" and establishing a commission "to identify physician services that are overvalued in the Medicare physician fee schedule." So Congress—already by far the largest U.S. health-care purchaser—will change its price controls and payment policies to weight the practice of medicine in directions it finds amenable or politically convenient, even if it harms innovation or ends up restricting useful treatments to manage the inevitable cost overruns.

Over the weekend Mr. Obama claimed that opposition to his health plan was nothing more than "lies." But the reality is that even under the Baucus framework the government, which created or exacerbated most of the problems that Mr. Obama says government must rectify, will soon control the entire health-care market. This has been the liberal ambition for decades, and BaucusCare would take another giant leap in that unaffordable direction.

09-09-2009, 01:27 PM
I think you'll find that there'll be plenty of opposition to this from the left.

Here are some comments I've seen so far... From the Finance Committee Plan:

Interstate Sale of Insurance. Starting in 2015, states may form “health care choice compacts” to allow for the purchase of non-group health insurance across state lines. Such compacts may exist between two or more states. Once compacts have been formed, insurers would be allowed to sell policies in any state participating in the compact. Insurers selling policies through a compact would only be subject to the laws and regulations of the state where the policy is written or issued.

This is something that conservatives have been begging to do for years. It sounds reasonable. But there’s a very good reason why it would quickly turn into a nightmare, and you can see it in the examples of Delaware South Dakota.

Both of those states have essentially no regulations on credit card companies. When legislation passed allowing banks to issue credit cards across state lines, some states started wildly deregulating their credit card markets in a race to the bottom. South Dakota and Delaware won. And now practically all credit cards are issued from those two states.

This would be precisely what would happen to the health insurance market under these “health care choice compacts,” which could go national, based on this language. Right now, insurance companies can sell their coverage “across state lines,” they just have to be accountable to the laws of the state where they sell it. Under this plan, insurers would be allowed to ignore the regulations in the state where individuals purchase insurance, and only subject to the laws where they issue it. Anti-government legislatures could gut insurance regulation to entice insurers into setting up their corporate HQs there.

09-09-2009, 01:31 PM
How about a federal mandate to the insurance companies requiring they offer their plans across state boundaries?

Mike Noel
09-09-2009, 01:52 PM
The Baucus plan turns around and foots the bill for these subsidies by imposing a 35% excise tax on any insurance company offering plans that cost more than $8,000 for singles and $21,000 for families. This Rube Goldberg proposal is in play because Democrats don't want to touch the open-ended tax exclusion that allows business to offer insurance coverage tax-free but also has the effect of insulating consumers from costs and benefits.

I really wonder how much revenue this will generate. I offer my employees a very generous plan from United Healthcare and the annual premiums don't come anywhere near those $8K and $21K numbers.

Bob Gutermuth
09-09-2009, 02:15 PM
They keep saying in congress that a plan with the public option won't make it thru the Senate and one with out it won't make it thru the house. That is OK by me, I don't want any version of Osamacare passed.

09-09-2009, 03:31 PM
Oh boy, this sounds complicated. Why not just fold us all into Medicare. Then using the same confusing rules like TXduckdog seems to like, simply "make it simple stupid". Turn all that money the Insurance Companies want into Medicare. Oops, we have now just made Medicare and Social Security solvent forever, did away with Mediciad and those unwanted ER Sick People, and, and, and... maybe made the National Debt go away in my lifetime.

Do not like Government management or control, simple also. Make a private non-profit co-operative that we all own and are stockholders of. Our dividends will be good, inexpensive, healthcare and staying alive without declaring bankruptcy. Oh yes we can hire some of those lower level displaced Insurance Employees to run it at reasonable wages, like maybe limited to what a Military person would recieve at different levels of responsibility and authority and without bonus. I forgot, slowly transfer back THEM worthless government clerks, supervisors and managers to Civil Serice but wait until THEM newly hired people are trained. What, some might just stay with the Co-op from Government Offices like Social Security, Veterans Affairs, CDC, NIMH, Surgeon General and Medicare/Medicaid? We cannot have that, it would reduce the size of Government vastly, look at all that unemployment t.... oh, they still have jobs?

Yes, you are "right" I, I, I, I mean correct, I am sorry for I am new here, and I did not think before I used profanity.

simply put.......why do so many involved in this debate have a vested interest in hiding what a Single Payer System is. They are doing everything and anything to stop all mention or debate on it. Worst of all they are pandering to ignorance and the Ignorant or much worse, the Bigoted, the Biased, the Racist in ALL Americans.

I am a "Reforming" Moderate Republican in South Caroline from Minnesota. When I was growing up back there, this is exactly what we would have wanted if we could have gotten around the special interests, Republicans and Democrats who then and still now are Pocket Politicians.

Not all Politicians are bad, only most Republicans and almost as many Democrats. Case in Point, my Senator Lindsey Graham. I start to believe he has a set, but then THEY will pull him back and threaten to cut them off. Senator DeMint? I think he holds the knife. If you do not understand what I say, then even if I have you get down and give me twenty a hundred times over, you do not want to undersstand.

I am sure that if I am in error, then someone will point it out and we can go on from there. But be aware, I too can change the math or modify the calculation to make the numbers look good. I Believe in doing what is possible and this is possible. But not by politicians. We, the people, can force the politicians to follow us. Not us, following them. I am tire of seeing the Vested interests using Government to rip us off. Make Pocket Politician (ABOVE) do thier job, and thier Job is to represent us first. ENOUGH SAID

Semper Fi

09-09-2009, 03:37 PM
Nothing like making your first post on RTF in the political forum....welcome to the RTF Alpha Omega..hope you are here for the dogs too

road kill
09-09-2009, 03:52 PM
Nothing like making your first post on RTF in the political forum....welcome to the RTF Alpha Omega..hope you are here for the dogs too

And an absurd one at that;

"Not all Politicians are bad, only most Republicans and almost as many Democrats. "

That made me spit my Geritol through my nose!!:shock:

09-09-2009, 06:53 PM
I too, have been so very disappointed over Graham.....ever a nutless politician if I ever saw one.

Perhaps the Dem's have something on him?

Welcome to the board and if you're a vet....Bless You.

I'm a retired SgtMaj with 32 years of service. Love you jarheads.

09-09-2009, 09:09 PM
Three Puppies:
Tigres Shadow (F) Lab afraid of the water
Teddy Bear Boniface (M) Pom walks on back of Chairs/Hi-Road
Gidget (two brain Cells)(F)L/hair Chihuahua feet no touch floor
G. Diane (F) Human one mean gal
The puppies are family members and not pets
Daughter and grand daughter
Son and grand son these are pets meaning we feed and water
USMC 26A 2 active res/ 2 inactive res Msgt
USPS 14 in process of retirement ET-10
just had l/rotator cuff repaired and expect to start physical therapy next couple weeks
The Prez just spoke, sounds ok but will need to see what happens tomorrow, next week/month/year/and decade.
I have the Single Payer but get to see the bills through my Private Insurance (APWU-CIGNA) Hopefully the will get a system of billing everyone can understand. Between the two it gets real foggy. The commercial insurance is primary and tries to pay as little as possible. The DOD TRICARE PRIME (Single Payer) normal would Pick up everything but co-pay if primary. Being secondary they will only pay a portion of what the primary commercial insurance pays and this is where it gets stupid. For instance I was in physical therapy about two months ago and one of the bills under Single Payer would have been $12 co-pay. The commercial insurance paid only a certain figure, now I have to pay $85. When I looked into it the TRICARE side they said that I would Have to pay the $85 vice $12 and their suggestion was drop commercial insurance. I don't need the commercial insurance according to them and TRICARE is force to follow the regs with commercial insurance. I told them I would drop it when I officially retire. I can suspend my commercial insurance at retirement and if ever needed, reactivate it latter. But to do this I must have the insurance in force continually for a minimum of three years prior to retirement. The reason I want this is when I first retired fifteen years ago they were thinking about terminating military retire hospitalization until age 62 to 65. I could then go on Medicare. I am glad that proposal was canceled along with the plans to reduction Social Security benefits by 50% for Military retires at same age.

Grandson needs the computer, Simper Fi
Day later and did major edit to this but got curious about go advanced and lost everything. I will not try that again for a while. Finally did only minor changes.