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starjack
09-10-2009, 05:03 PM
Just Caught The Tape On Fox . I Dont Care If It Was Wrong How The Got It... But They Got It And Acorn Shouldanswer For It

gman0046
09-10-2009, 05:15 PM
The real problem is the American Taxpayers are paying Acorn 8 billion dollars a year. A fine example of the Democratic Party paying for votes.

YardleyLabs
09-10-2009, 05:56 PM
Great video. BTW, the American taxpayers are NOT paying ACORN $8 billion/year.

The video is interesting in part because it focuses on an interesting aspect ot the tax code. Legally, one is required to pay taxes on illegal income and the reporting of that income may not be used as evidence of criminal activity since that would represent self incrimination. Thus, accurately reporting income from prostitution as income from the "performing arts" would not open the filer to charges of prostitution and would avoid the possibility of charges of tax fraud. Expenses incurred for housing, clothing (as long as it was not suitable for general purpose activities:D), etc. would be entirely legal. The tax adviser indicated that it was illegal to employ girls under the age of 16 and illegal to employ persons without tax ID numbers, which is good and appropriate advice. Saying that those individuals better not exist from a tax perspective is also OK as long as the adviser does actually help to prepare the return, at which point the adviser would be guilty of tax fraud and conspiracy for tax fraud.

Notwithstanding all of this, it is great undercover reporting and the people in Baltimore will have some decisions to make in how they respond (assuming the tape is real). It's not quite as interesting as the tapes released today of coversations between Bernie Madoff and and investment advisory firm describing how to defraud the SEC as they stole $2 billion, but it's right up there. Personally, I have no problems with reporters using fake identities to capture stories like this whether it is tax fraud at ACORN or failure to follow appropriate procedures at a slaughterhouse (a story produced by PETA).

ALPHA-OMEGA
09-10-2009, 06:40 PM
Just Caught The Tape On Fox . I Dont Care If It Was Wrong How The Got It... But They Got It And Acorn Should answer For It

HAVE NOT SEEN, HINT HINT, IS IT GOOD BAD OR INDIFFERENT? I BELIEVE THERE ARE SEVERAL HUNDRED, WHICH ONE? DON'T THEY HAVE SEVERAL HUNDRED TO THOUSAND CHARITIES AND EVEN MORE CHURCHES AFFILIATED WITH THEM? BOY THIS MAY BE QUITE A LARGE BLOCK OF THE POPULATION. I HEAR FROM SOME THAT THEY ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF BLEEDING HEART DOGOODERS, OR EVEN OF COLOR, OTHERS LIKE FOX OR THE RUSH SEEM TO LOATH THEM. IF THEY ARE DOING GOOD FOR A VAST NUMBER OF AMERICANS I GIVE THEM MY SUPPORT. IF THEY THEY ARE RIPPING US OFF BY EVEN A1/1000000000000000000 00000000000000000000 OF THE MONEY THE LAST ADMINISTRATION CAUSED TO WALK. YOURS, MINE, HIS, AND MY GRAND KIDS LETS ALL GET TOGETHER AND CRUCIFY THEM LIKE WE DID THE GOP.

I am sure glad that you are out there with me watching for malfeasance and non-feasance. You probably heard my screams each time the Last Administration or one their High Level Friends took us to the cleaners. It was much worse than the 1980's Savings and Loan rip off, I sure wish I had been vigilant then. They estimate that we are still paying twenty years later. I am a little deaf in both ears so you might have to scream a little louder for me to hear.


SEMPER FI

YardleyLabs
09-10-2009, 08:13 PM
You can see part one of the video at http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=9395962&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/#

Goose
09-10-2009, 08:26 PM
ACORN and the democrat party go together like peas and carrots. "Families working together for social justice and stronger communities." That's rich. How about "families working together to help pimps buy a whorehouse and kidnap very young girls from El Salvador to use as prostitutes and slaves." And all done with federal grants.

Maybe somebody on 60 Minutes will ask our Dear Leader what he knows about ACORN's brothel business and if these young slave-prostitutes will qualify for his healthcare scheme.

ACORN is more dangerous than the Taliban.

YardleyLabs
09-10-2009, 08:32 PM
ACORN and the democrat party go together like peas and carrots. "Families working together for social justice and stronger communities." That's rich. How about "families working together to help pimps buy a whorehouse and kidnap very young girls from El Salvador to use as prostitutes and slaves." And all done with federal grants.

Maybe somebody on 60 Minutes will ask our Dear Leader what he knows about ACORN's brothel business and if these young slave-prostitutes will qualify for his healthcare scheme.

ACORN is more dangerous than the Taliban.
And the Republican Party is definitely more dangerous than ACORN.

FWIW, the workers in the video have been fired. I wonder what other shoes will drop.

tpaschal30
09-10-2009, 08:40 PM
And the Republican Party is definitely more dangerous than ACORN.

FWIW, the workers in the video have been fired. I wonder what other shoes will drop.


There it is! You liberals think conservatives are more dangerous than militant Islamics. Amazing!!!

Bruce MacPherson
09-10-2009, 08:45 PM
There it is! You liberals think conservatives are more dangerous than militant Islamics. Amazing!!!

It's a war I tell ya. :D

YardleyLabs
09-10-2009, 08:56 PM
There it is! You liberals think conservatives are more dangerous than militant Islamics. Amazing!!!
1. ACORN is no more related to Islamic militants than the Baptist Church.
2. The Democratic Party is also more dangerous than ACORN.

To be dangerous requires power. ACORN has almost none.

TXduckdog
09-10-2009, 09:00 PM
1. ACORN is no more related to Islamic militants than the Baptist Church.
2. The Democratic Party is also more dangerous than ACORN.

To be dangerous requires power. ACORN has almost none.


Jeff...what about this group supposedly being in charge of the census.

This group is also loaded with cash...which buys a lot of influence...an oblique power to be sure.

And...they are totally unregulated.

tpaschal30
09-10-2009, 09:13 PM
1. ACORN is no more related to Islamic militants than the Baptist Church.
2. The Democratic Party is also more dangerous than ACORN.

To be dangerous requires power. ACORN has almost none.

So ACORN has no power yet Obama said himself they would help shape his presidency. They held sitins to force banks to make subprime loans. Numerous cases of voter fraud.

K G
09-11-2009, 07:15 AM
And the Republican Party is definitely more dangerous than ACORN.

Thanks for confirming where you REALLY stand, Jeff. Don't EVER try to pass yourself off as anything but a liberal....

EVER......


2. The Democratic Party is also more dangerous than ACORN.

Nice try at a save......I aint' buyin' it....too much evidence to the contrary.

kg

YardleyLabs
09-11-2009, 07:47 AM
1. ACORN is no more related to Islamic militants than the Baptist Church.
2. The Democratic Party is also more dangerous than ACORN.

To be dangerous requires power. ACORN has almost none.


Jeff...what about this group supposedly being in charge of the census.

This group is also loaded with cash...which buys a lot of influence...an oblique power to be sure.

And...they are totally unregulated.If the Census Bureau hires outreach workers to help count people in the inner cities (as they should), does that mean those employees are now in charge of the Census? The Census is run by the Census Bureau. Thousands of individuals and contractors are hired to help. ACORN offices may or may not have a role. They will not run the Census.



So ACORN has no power yet Obama said himself they would help shape his presidency. They held sitins to force banks to make subprime loans. Numerous cases of voter fraud.
This story line dates back to a campaign presentation that Obama made to a conference of community organizations (not just ACORN) on 12/1/2007 (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vJcVgJhNaU)

Obama was asked if he would agree to meet with representatives of community organizations during his first 100 days. He said yes but that before that, during the transition, he would be having meetings all over the country with community organizations so that they would be able to help shape the agenda of the new administration. What is wrong with that? If a person were running for President today and met with organizers of tea parties and other factions of the conservative movement and made a similar statement, would that be a bad thing?

If you want to know why banks issued sub-prime mortgages, look at the bank boards and executives who fought for that privilege because of the profits they believed they could earn.

Pete
09-11-2009, 08:32 AM
And the Republican Party is definitely more dangerous than ACORN

Jeff

And the Minute men were dangerous also. But they helped america from being an european asset.
Conservatives should be considered dangerous to those who live and breath socialism,communism and fashism.

After all there is nothing more discusting than men ruling over the free will of another man (woman)
That is something worth killing over.
I do believe that scenerio happened in the revolutionary war.

Do you think now because the enemy of freedom wears 3 piece suits that makes it OK

Pete

Hew
09-11-2009, 08:58 AM
To be dangerous requires power. ACORN has almost none.
After reading your thoughts for awhile here I know you'd rightly agree with the premise that, generally speaking, $$$ = power.

Given that Acorn has an annual budget of 100 million dollars, I don't know how you can claim that they're powerless. That kind of budget puts them in the same league as the NRA, and in some years it appears to exceed the budgets of the DNC and RNC. Moreover, why would political activist organizations like the Tides Foundation, George Soros, SEIU, etc. donate millions each year to a "powerless" organization like Acorn.

Acorn is a damn den of snakes. They hide behind a Byzantine web of inter-connected organizations and non-profits to skirt laws and make it difficult to "follow the money" as they further their crazy-left agenda to achieve a democratic majority capable of voting themselves money out of the minority's pocketbooks and as Obama said, "fundamentally transforming this country."

Franco
09-11-2009, 09:14 AM
The Census is run by the Census Bureau. Thousands of individuals and contractors are hired to help. ACORN offices may or may not have a role. They will not run the Census.





That's the problem with many Liberals, they prefer to not look at the reality.

Do you trust the ACORN members involved with the count to report accurately? I certainly don't and expect them to pad the count with thier kind.

Who runs the Census Bureau now? The very corrupt Chief Of Staff Rahm Emmanuel and his Chicago henchmen, which includes Obama's group, the one and only ACORN!

Who do you think called off the U S Attorney General from investigating ACORN? Emmauel? Obama? Or maybe Mr Holder is not wanting to investigate his own and would rather undermine our Intelligence and Security efforts.

Bob Gutermuth
09-11-2009, 10:33 AM
Acorn's DC office pimped by the same reproters:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549241,00.html

YardleyLabs
09-11-2009, 11:49 AM
Interesting. They gave some pretty good advice and did not suggest anything illegal. CNN reported that, according to ACORN, the same couple tried the same thing at a bunch of ACORN offices. Obviously the entire investigation was launched with a political agenda, but there is nothing unfair about that any more than it would be unfair to do similar films in gun stores to see how sellers might handle a situation of a big buyer who is clearly looking for guns to sell illegally.

Steve Amrein
09-11-2009, 12:59 PM
Interesting. They gave some pretty good advice and did not suggest anything illegal. CNN reported that, according to ACORN, the same couple tried the same thing at a bunch of ACORN offices. Obviously the entire investigation was launched with a political agenda, but there is nothing unfair about that any more than it would be unfair to do similar films in gun stores to see how sellers might handle a situation of a big buyer who is clearly looking for guns to sell illegally.


So Jeff do you approve of prostitution, pay for sex with underage girls, aiding undocumented aliens and tax evasion and lying on legal documents ? All this advice from a organization that receives federal money? I hope the local authorities are forced to look into this and the appropriate charges are filed.

YardleyLabs
09-11-2009, 03:59 PM
So Jeff do you approve of prostitution, pay for sex with underage girls, aiding undocumented aliens and tax evasion and lying on legal documents ? All this advice from a organization that receives federal money? I hope the local authorities are forced to look into this and the appropriate charges are filed.
First, the underage aspect was never mentioned in the second video because the people basically said that they didn't want to know anything about it and that everything would need to be documented with a complete paper trail.

Second, one of the things that I have always found interesting is the intersection of crime with taxation. Remember that Al Capone was imprisoned for failure to pay taxes on his ill-gotten gains, not for the crimes that he committed to make money.

In this case the actor begins by requesting tax advice. The advice he is given is actually pretty good. They were told to set up a business as a sole proprietorship and to deposit all receipts into a bank account and declare the income. They were advised to keep track of all expenditures and to deduct them from revenues to calculate the taxable profit and then to file tax returns making sure that there was a good paper trail for everything done. The woman was told that she could expect to be reported and to have the police called unless her activities were very discrete and did not bother neighbors. When asked about employees, the counselors said that those revenues also needed to be reported and that paperwork needed to be in order. The issue of the employees being illegal aliens and being underage was not brought up since the counselor made it clear that all paperwork needed to be in order.

All of that advice was good and consistent with the law. What they didn't do was to throw the couple out because they said they were involved in prostitution. I have no problem with that. Attorneys don't throw criminals out who come seeking representation and will answer questions that they are asked concerning what is or is not illegal.

The problem in the Baltimore office was that the couple was being advised to lie. That did not happen in the Washington office. Figuring out how to classify a business activity using the IRS categories is a challenge even if your occupation is legal. I see nothing wrong with a prostitute calling herself an "entertainer" in filing an income tax return. I'm just happy if the taxes are paid. The IRS used to have a category specifically for reporting illegal income. There were some court challenges on whether or not that violated 5th amendment protections and I do not think that category still exists. Prostitutes, drug dealers, contract killers, etc., are all required to pay income taxes. Even though the original crime may be a matter of state law, failure to pay taxes is a federal crime. How can it therefore be wrong to advise such people on how to comply with the law.

The only area where I heard the counselors possibly cross the line related to purchasing a house for the prostitute. They suggested that the man could buy the house and rent it to his girlfriend. As landlord he could deny knowledge of what was being done there. They also said that if he wanted to avoid arrest and protect his own reputation, he should not visit the property ever except to collect the rent. If he wanted to continue seeing his girlfriend they said it should be at his own house or in a different location. The counselors did not bite when the man asked if they could fabricate prior year returns to satisfy banks. Instead, the counselors said that all paperwork had to be in order. By the way, there would have been no problem if the couple filed income tax returns and paid their taxes for prior years. There would only be fraud if they prepared returns that were never filed and then gave those to a bank to secure a loan.

Hew
09-11-2009, 04:08 PM
First, the underage aspect was never mentioned in the second video because the people basically said that they didn't want to know anything about it and that everything would need to be documented with a complete paper trail.

Second, one of the things that I have always found interesting is the intersection of crime with taxation. Remember that Al Capone was imprisoned for failure to pay taxes on his ill-gotten gains, not for the crimes that he committed to make money.

In this case the actor begins by requesting tax advice. The advice he is given is actually pretty good. They were told to set up a business as a sole proprietorship and to deposit all receipts into a bank account and declare the income. They were advised to keep track of all expenditures and to deduct them from revenues to calculate the taxable profit and then to file tax returns making sure that there was a good paper trail for everything done. The woman was told that she could expect to be reported and to have the police called unless her activities were very discrete and did not bother neighbors. When asked about employees, the counselors said that those revenues also needed to be reported and that paperwork needed to be in order. The issue of the employees being illegal aliens and being underage was not brought up since the counselor made it clear that all paperwork needed to be in order.

All of that advice was good and consistent with the law. What they didn't do was to throw the couple out because they said they were involved in prostitution. I have no problem with that. Attorneys don't throw criminals out who come seeking representation and will answer questions that they are asked concerning what is or is not illegal.

The problem in the Baltimore office was that the couple was being advised to lie. That did not happen in the Washington office. Figuring out how to classify a business activity using the IRS categories is a challenge even if your occupation is legal. I see nothing wrong with a prostitute calling herself an "entertainer" in filing an income tax return. I'm just happy if the taxes are paid. The IRS used to have a category specifically for reporting illegal income. There were some court challenges on whether or not that violated 5th amendment protections and I do not think that category still exists. Prostitutes, drug dealers, contract killers, etc., are all required to pay income taxes. Even though the original crime may be a matter of state law, failure to pay taxes is a federal crime. How can it therefore be wrong to advise such people on how to comply with the law.

The only area where I heard the counselors possibly cross the line related to purchasing a house for the prostitute. They suggested that the man could buy the house and rent it to his girlfriend. As landlord he could deny knowledge of what was being done there. They also said that if he wanted to avoid arrest and protect his own reputation, he should not visit the property ever except to collect the rent. If he wanted to continue seeing his girlfriend they said it should be at his own house or in a different location. The counselors did not bite when the man asked if they could fabricate prior year returns to satisfy banks. Instead, the counselors said that all paperwork had to be in order. By the way, there would have been no problem if the couple filed income tax returns and paid their taxes for prior years. There would only be fraud if they prepared returns that were never filed and then gave those to a bank to secure a loan.

<<YARDLEY....THIS IS THE COMMON SENSE POLICE. WE HAVE THE PLACE SURROUNDED. DROP THE SHOVEL AND COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP!>>

YardleyLabs
09-11-2009, 04:24 PM
<<YARDLEY....THIS IS THE COMMON SENSE POLICE. WE HAVE THE PLACE SURROUNDED. DROP THE SHOVEL AND COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP!>>
Is that what you say when you have no substantive comment? If you are a tax adviser asked to advise someone on how to report and pay taxes on illegal income, what do you do?

Tell them how to report the income and pay taxes to comply with the law.
Tell them to go away because you don't care.
Tell them not to report the income or pay taxes, making yourself party to a crime.Personally, I tend to go with option 1.

BTW, unless the story told by the filmmakers was true, there was no crime and no basis for reporting the couple. All comments made would be deemed hearsay and there is no obligation to report someone for a crime you do not witness.

starjack
09-11-2009, 04:50 PM
how come none of the main stream media is reporting on this. I guess they dont want nobody digging up some unwanted evedience that could come back to haunt that it we have in the white house

Captain Mike D
09-11-2009, 05:24 PM
[quote=YardleyLabs;497534][quote=TXduckdog;497412]If the Census Bureau hires outreach workers to help count people in the inner cities (as they should), does that mean those employees are now in charge of the Census? The Census is run by the Census Bureau. Thousands of individuals and contractors are hired to help. ACORN offices may or may not have a role. They will not run the Census.

Damn right they won't!!! They would have but this last little escapade got them booted by the Whitehouse as reported by Fox news 9/11/ 09 @ 6:22
Mike

YardleyLabs
09-11-2009, 05:34 PM
how come none of the main stream media is reporting on this. I guess they dont want nobody digging up some unwanted evedience that could come back to haunt that it we have in the white house
What do you mean? It's been in all my local newspapers, all over CNN, on the local TV news, the NY Times, etc. Interestingly, little to nothing has been reported on the source of the tapes...

luvmylabs23139
09-11-2009, 05:40 PM
What do you mean? It's been in all my local newspapers, all over CNN, on the local TV news, the NY Times, etc. Interestingly, little to nothing has been reported on the source of the tapes...
They were on FOX last night.

YardleyLabs
09-11-2009, 05:46 PM
They were on FOX last night.
It was on a right wing blog yesterday -- what do you expect? It was reported by AP yesterday, by CNN yesterday, and in all the papers this morning, which means stories written yesterday. You seem to be making the point that the MSM are trying to suppress the story. They haven't. They also have not yet fulfilled their journalistic responsibility to question the story.

luvmylabs23139
09-11-2009, 06:18 PM
It was on a right wing blog yesterday -- what do you expect? It was reported by AP yesterday, by CNN yesterday, and in all the papers this morning, which means stories written yesterday. You seem to be making the point that the MSM are trying to suppress the story. They haven't. They also have not yet fulfilled their journalistic responsibility to question the story.
FOX interviewed the people that made the film.

Hew
09-11-2009, 06:20 PM
Is that what you say when you have no substantive comment?
You're right. I was hoping a gentle ribbing would awaken you from whatever leftist flying monkey-induced trance would cause an otherwise level headed guy to write long-winded, lawyeristic (read weasel-ish) defenses of what 98% of the rest of world considers indefensible.

Let's boil it down to its essence (without the fancy talk jibber jabber):



A man pretending to be running for Congress and a woman pretending to be a prostitute in his employ walk into a Baltimore ACORN office. The pair tell the ACORN reps that they are planning to traffic in imported underage hookers from El Salvador and need assistance to obtain a housing loan for a brothel while getting around federal and state tax laws — all while laundering the brothel money into the man’s future congressional campaign. “Can you help us?” http://dougpowers.com/2009/09/10/acorn-reps-give-pimp-tax-advice/

That is what you're defending? Dude, really.

Those people should have been chased out of Acorn's office with a f'ing stick; not offered tax advice on how to best launder money from their under-aged sex slavery business. As a father of a daughter adopted from that region, where underage sex slavery is a problem, I find the Acorn womens' helpfulness to be repulsive (and wonder if they would have laughed and joked about what euphamisms to use if the pimp/ho said the 13 underage girls were coming from the 'hood in Baltimore instead of just some spic kids from Central America). As a breather of air, I find your defense of them completely imcomprehensible.

Is that enough substantive comment for ya?

YardleyLabs
09-11-2009, 06:49 PM
You're right. I was hoping a gentle ribbing would awaken you from whatever leftist flying monkey-induced trance would cause an otherwise level headed guy to write long-winded, lawyeristic (read weasel-ish) defenses of what 98% of the rest of world considers indefensible.

Let's boil it down to its essence (without the fancy talk jibber jabber):


That is what you're defending? Dude, really.

Those people should have been chased out of Acorn's office with a f'ing stick; not offered tax advice on how to best launder money from their under-aged sex slavery business. As a father of a daughter adopted from that region, where underage sex slavery is a problem, I find the Acorn womens' helpfulness to be repulsive (and wonder if they would have laughed and joked about what euphamisms to use if the pimp/ho said the 13 underage girls were coming from the 'hood in Baltimore instead of just some spic kids from Central America). As a breather of air, I find your defense of them completely imcomprehensible.

Is that enough substantive comment for ya?

There's the difference. I had previously posted that the guys in Baltimore were caught flat out. They definitely appeared (who knows how the tape was edited) to have conspired to commit fraud. I was talking about the guys in Washington who were painted with the same brush but actually acted in a completely different manner.

luvmylabs23139
09-11-2009, 09:00 PM
So what ACORN office goes down next?
Q More videos?
A Maybe.

Hew
09-12-2009, 12:45 AM
There's the difference. I had previously posted that the guys in Baltimore were caught flat out. They definitely appeared (who knows how the tape was edited) to have conspired to commit fraud. I was talking about the guys in Washington who were painted with the same brush but actually acted in a completely different manner.
The Washington office also provided oh-so-helpful information as to how the pimp and ho could operate a brothel with 10 girls from El Salvador.

road kill
09-12-2009, 06:51 AM
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ALCUJO0&show_article=1

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!

Uncle Bill
09-12-2009, 06:22 PM
To be dangerous requires power. ACORN has almost none.




You have gone beyond ANY hope. If you think for a moment an organization as corrupt as ACORN has no power, you are a buffoon. With the porkulus they've been awarded, it's doubtful this nation will ever again see another believable election. But then, your views of what constitutes power are slightly different than mine.

UB

YardleyLabs
09-12-2009, 06:43 PM
You have gone beyond ANY hope. If you think for a moment an organization as corrupt as ACORN has no power, you are a buffoon. With the porkulus they've been awarded, it's doubtful this nation will ever again see another believable election. But then, your views of what constitutes power are slightly different than mine.

UB
There are constant comments about the billions they have received yet no one seems to be able to find any grants of significance.

road kill
09-12-2009, 09:08 PM
There are constant comments about the billions they have received yet no one seems to be able to find any grants of significance.
Because there are no direct grants yet.

Goose
09-12-2009, 09:41 PM
ACORN is the most corrupt organization the democrats have ever formed. They have absolutely no regard for the law and you could take a hidden camera into any of their offices and see the same corruption as we saw last week in just two of their shops. Our Dear Fuhrer is no doubt the CEO of ACORN and they take their orders from him. I suppose that means he's ok with kidnapping under-age girls from El Salvador for use as sex slaves in America.

We should take a flame thrower to ACORN.

We live in Cuba now.

YardleyLabs
09-13-2009, 06:58 AM
You have gone beyond ANY hope. If you think for a moment an organization as corrupt as ACORN has no power, you are a buffoon. With the porkulus they've been awarded, it's doubtful this nation will ever again see another believable election. But then, your views of what constitutes power are slightly different than mine.

UB


Because there are no direct grants yet.
And so all that "porkulus" is coming from where? Interestingly, ACORN Housing has received several million in Federal grants through HUD. These funds were almost entirely given to it between 2003 and 2006 (according to biggovernment.com) when Republicans co0ntroll the White house, HUD, and Congress.

The fact is that ACORN's funding seems to be something at least as secret as the NRA's. I have not been able to locate any financial reports for ACORN or its related organizations. Only one of its affiliates is classified as a 501(c)(3) organization. The others are simply identified as "non-profits" without further designation. Contributions are not identified as being tax deductible and most activities are explicitly legislative and political in nature.


ACORN is the most corrupt organization the democrats have ever formed. They have absolutely no regard for the law and you could take a hidden camera into any of their offices and see the same corruption as we saw last week in just two of their shops. Our Dear Fuhrer is no doubt the CEO of ACORN and they take their orders from him. I suppose that means he's ok with kidnapping under-age girls from El Salvador for use as sex slaves in America.

We should take a flame thrower to ACORN.

We live in Cuba now.
ACORN was actually founded in 1970 as an offshoot of the National Welfare Rights Organization, not the Democrats. It received its greatest boost from FEMA's handling of Katrina and the economic warfare waged by the last administration against the lower 50% of our population. Over the eight years that Bush was in the White House, the membership of ACORN grew astronomically based on its activities to help with resettlement of Katrina victims, its activities opposing predatory lending, and its activities to assist homeowners facing foreclosure.

As a separate issue, I went back to listen to the tapes of the Baltimore and Washington offices with the prostitution couple. Two things struck me.

First, there is little question in my mind that the voices of the man and woman are voice overs. The tonal quality of their recorded comments is completely different from the tonal quality of the voices of the counselors, suggesting both a different microphone and a different recording environment.

Second, If you ignore the comments by the couple, the comments by the workers become much harder to criticize.

The question, in my mind, is whether or not the tapes are fabricated with questions and comments by the couple that are different from those shown in the films. I'm not stating this as a conclusion. In fact, my more devilish side sort of hopes the tapes are real. However, if they are real, the producer should be able to provide an unedited version without voice overs. I suspect that is something that will not surface quickly and, if it does, will not find its way onto FOX unless it is part of a legal settlement for libel.

ACORN in fact has written to FOX requesting that FOX either provide some authentication for the tapes of that it cease publishing them (http://acorn.org/fileadmin/Press_Releases/roger_ailes_091009.pdf). Whether coincidentally or not, FOX has removed the Washington Office tape and now only shows a small fraction of the Baltimore tape.

road kill
09-13-2009, 07:19 AM
Yardley said:

"The fact is that ACORN's funding seems to be something at least as secret as the NRA's. I have not been able to locate any financial reports for ACORN or its related organizations. Only one of its affiliates is classified as a 501(c)(3) organization. The others are simply identified as "non-profits" without further designation. Contributions are not identified as being tax deductible and most activities are explicitly legislative and political in nature."


Unbeleivable, the one time we agree on something, you still have to argue.

Again, Jeff, you are not the sole posseser of the truth.

Beleive it or not I can read too (and do).
I have spent (wasted) a whole bunch of time trying to find out where "ACORN" gets all of it's money.
I could find no credible source to identify the source of the funding.
(nothing to support Billions from the fed/govt)

The are some speculations, but I could find no facts or direct monies from the fed/govt.

It appears to be a mystery!!

Having said that....ACORN has some serious legal issues in regard specifically to several counts of involvement in voter fraud and a number of misdemeaners around the country.

That is 1 very wealthy, very well organized church out of NO/LA!!

I have found some info on some serious investigations into ACORN ongoing at this moment.
But no details.

I have also read that some investigations have been haulted by the "powers that be."

But no details, so I am not sure what that means.

But the US Census Bureau has cut ties with them for the 2010 Census (in my earlier link).

stan b

Uncle Bill
09-13-2009, 12:56 PM
From the Erudite Pennsylvania Lefty (EPL) comes another demo of 'falling on the sword':

First, there is little question in my mind that the voices of the man and woman are voice overs. The tonal quality of their recorded comments is completely different from the tonal quality of the voices of the counselors, suggesting both a different microphone and a different recording environment.

Second, If you ignore the comments by the couple, the comments by the workers become much harder to criticize.

The question, in my mind, is whether or not the tapes are fabricated with questions and comments by the couple that are different from those shown in the films. I'm not stating this as a conclusion. In fact, my more devilish side sort of hopes the tapes are real. However, if they are real, the producer should be able to provide an unedited version without voice overs. I suspect that is something that will not surface quickly and, if it does, will not find its way onto FOX unless it is part of a legal settlement for libel.

How reminiscent this is of the accusations by the right when Dan Rather was reporting his tripe about Bush...AND THE LEFT HAD A COW!!! We were, of course, accused of beating the messenger.

Now the 'messenger' has film for corroberation...you know like that sting of Marion Barry when he was caught.... but the EPL is positive it is phoney.

Are you also part of the cabal of believers that 9/11 was an inside job?

Tell me how often you are willing to be wounded for this batch of corrupt hoodlums/gangsters/& thugs before you come to your senses? I doubt you ever will. My guess is, had you been in DC at the time of Barry's re-election run, you would have been championing him as well.

As stated earlier, you are beyond hope. I can only wish you will live long enough to see what it is you and your ilk have done to this nation. As you continue to fight for the shredding of the US Constitution by your incredulous blind support of the fascism being exercised by this current batch of CZARS and their almighty leader, just remember, your grandchildren will be holding you responsible for their plight in the ensuing years. Must make you proud.

UB

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 06:15 AM
From the Erudite Pennsylvania Lefty (EPL) comes another demo of 'falling on the sword':

First, there is little question in my mind that the voices of the man and woman are voice overs. The tonal quality of their recorded comments is completely different from the tonal quality of the voices of the counselors, suggesting both a different microphone and a different recording environment.

Second, If you ignore the comments by the couple, the comments by the workers become much harder to criticize.

The question, in my mind, is whether or not the tapes are fabricated with questions and comments by the couple that are different from those shown in the films. I'm not stating this as a conclusion. In fact, my more devilish side sort of hopes the tapes are real. However, if they are real, the producer should be able to provide an unedited version without voice overs. I suspect that is something that will not surface quickly and, if it does, will not find its way onto FOX unless it is part of a legal settlement for libel.

How reminiscent this is of the accusations by the right when Dan Rather was reporting his tripe about Bush...AND THE LEFT HAD A COW!!! We were, of course, accused of beating the messenger.

Now the 'messenger' has film for corroberation...you know like that sting of Marion Barry when he was caught.... but the EPL is positive it is phoney.

Are you also part of the cabal of believers that 9/11 was an inside job?

Tell me how often you are willing to be wounded for this batch of corrupt hoodlums/gangsters/& thugs before you come to your senses? I doubt you ever will. My guess is, had you been in DC at the time of Barry's re-election run, you would have been championing him as well.

As stated earlier, you are beyond hope. I can only wish you will live long enough to see what it is you and your ilk have done to this nation. As you continue to fight for the shredding of the US Constitution by your incredulous blind support of the fascism being exercised by this current batch of CZARS and their almighty leader, just remember, your grandchildren will be holding you responsible for their plight in the ensuing years. Must make you proud.

UB
UB,

Did you actually watch/listen to the tapes? I could care less about ACORN and got a kick out of the films, as I noted when they first was reported. However, my comments stand. I believe they are suspect. It would be pretty easy to prove their authenticity. I doubt that the producer will do that but would love to see it happen. Personally, I doubt that you care whether the tapes are honest or not as long as they skewer an organization you hate.

Henry V
09-14-2009, 07:50 AM
ACORN is just another great big boogeyman for the right to keep the base rallied. Nice little witch hunt or stellar investigative reporting depending on your point of view. If laws are broken, hold them accountable.

If they are so powerful, could someone point to the legislation that they have ever influenced in Congress, the political candidates that seek or get their endorsement, or how much they spend on lobbying annually? As Jeff pointed out, the organization has been around for almost 40 years. Answering these questions should be easy. Then, for kicks, let's compare their record on influencing policy to other organizations and compare their power.

Bob Gutermuth
09-14-2009, 08:48 AM
And ACORN is getting $8 billion in porkulus money. Bend over here comes the change!

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 09:04 AM
And ACORN is getting $8 billion in porkulus money. Bend over here comes the change!
Bob,

Can you point to any authoritative source for that statement (e.g. legislation mentioning ACORN or Federal grants received)? As far as I can determine, and Road Kill says he found the same, there is absolutely no basis for a lie that has circulated widely in conservative blogs and talk shows.

Eric Johnson
09-14-2009, 09:33 AM
ACORN is talking about suing FOX and the two film makers for manufacturing the scenes. FOX says they had nothing to do with making the film. The traditional blogs that vet these films seem to be silent. Further, although ACORN claims the films are untrue, the first response was the firing of the folks....first in Baltimore and now in Washington.

Film of another site (New York) was made available today. The report is that there are even more cities to come.

I frankly hope the FOX News folks are really quick. Their lawyers should be at the courthouse this morning filing a counter-claim. That way ACORN can't withdraw the suit when FOX News files the discovery motions.

Eric

cotts135
09-14-2009, 09:45 AM
So Jeff do you approve of prostitution, pay for sex with underage girls, aiding undocumented aliens and tax evasion and lying on legal documents ? All this advice from a organization that receives federal money?

Substitute politician for Acorn

road kill
09-14-2009, 09:55 AM
ACORN is just another great big boogeyman for the right to keep the base rallied. Nice little witch hunt or stellar investigative reporting depending on your point of view. If laws are broken, hold them accountable.

If they are so powerful, could someone point to the legislation that they have ever influenced in Congress, the political candidates that seek or get their endorsement, or how much they spend on lobbying annually? As Jeff pointed out, the organization has been around for almost 40 years. Answering these questions should be easy. Then, for kicks, let's compare their record on influencing policy to other organizations and compare their power.

UHHHH....the last election??

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 10:00 AM
ACORN is talking about suing FOX and the two film makers for manufacturing the scenes. FOX says they had nothing to do with making the film. The traditional blogs that vet these films seem to be silent. Further, although ACORN claims the films are untrue, the first response was the firing of the folks....first in Baltimore and now in Washington.

Film of another site (New York) was made available today. The report is that there are even more cities to come.

I frankly hope the FOX News folks are really quick. Their lawyers should be at the courthouse this morning filing a counter-claim. That way ACORN can't withdraw the suit when FOX News files the discovery motions.

Eric
On the New York tape, it is very clear that the tax adviser is talking about filing tax returns to report income from prostitution and vehicles that would allow the prostitute to pay the cost of the mortgage to her boyfriend while concealing the relationship between them. There is no indication in the tape that there was any discussion of underage girls or illegal aliens. It also seems that the advice given was legal and consistent with tax code. As a matter of interest, am I the only one who believes that prostitutes should pay income taxes and that a legitimate tax adviser should tell them how to do this legally? Just asking.

Henry V
09-14-2009, 10:45 AM
UHHHH....the last election??
In what ways specifically did they influence this election compared to other organizations? I know that they had voter turn out campaigns like many other organizations. Is that their big influence? Has it been quantified and compared to previous years? Voter registration and getting out the vote efforts, is that it? You do know that political parties and many other organizations have a long history of these efforts.

What about the other questions I asked. You have done some research on the organization. Who are their lobbyists in DC? How much do they spend? What is their policy agenda for this legislative session? What legislation are they proposing and influencing? What politicians are seeking their endorsement or are they fundraising for? What government positions do their former lobbyists hold and visa versa? If they are so politically powerful at a national level they must have a clear record on these things.

ducknwork
09-14-2009, 11:11 AM
In what ways specifically did they influence this election compared to other organizations?

http://www.lvrj.com/news/30613864.html


State authorities on Tuesday raided an organization that registers low-income people to vote, alleging that its canvassers falsified forms with bogus names, fake addresses or famous personalities.

..."Some of these (forms) were facially fraudulent; we basically had the starting lineup for the Dallas Cowboys," Secretary of State Ross Miller said. "Tony Romo is not registered to vote in Nevada. Anyone trying to pose as Terrell Owens won't be able to cast a ballot."

..."We don't know how many (falsified forms) are here; there may be two, or there may be thousands," said Bob Walsh, spokesman for the secretary of state's office.

...Fraudulent forms start filtering in when workers struggle to meet their quota and either fill in bogus names or accept documents with names that are clearly falsified, Miller said.

...ACORN's voter registration drive has consisted of recruiting people from off the street, many of them down-and-outers desperate for work, with the promise of $8 an hour for often grueling work. The canvassers were required to be on their feet, flagging down potential registrants, often in the 100-plus-degree heat of the Las Vegas summer.

Although they were not paid a set fee per registration form collected, which is illegal, they had to meet certain quotas of registrations each day, which is legal.

Clark County Registrar of Voters Larry Lomax, who has been speaking out about the fraudulent submissions and passing them along to the secretary of state's office for months, said under those circumstances, there was an obvious temptation for workers to duck into an air-conditioned library, for example, and start copying out of the phone book or off a sports roster.

...One canvasser turned in 17 applications; only four addresses existed, the investigators alleged.



A little (sort of) humor from the same article




"Today's raid by the secretary of state's office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than to discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls," Lewis said.

..."It raises significant concerns that they hired prison inmates, some of whom have been convicted of identity theft," Miller said.

...ACORN's field director in Nevada and the head of its voter registration effort, known as Project Vote, said the agency is cooperating fully with the investigation.

"We're proud of what we did here," Chris Edwards said.

...According to an affidavit filed by the secretary of state, the canvasser was interviewed and told investigators that meeting the daily quota was difficult because it was hot outside


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Steve Amrein
09-14-2009, 11:11 AM
First, the underage aspect was never mentioned in the second video because the people basically said that they didn't want to know anything about it and that everything would need to be documented with a complete paper trail.

Second, one of the things that I have always found interesting is the intersection of crime with taxation. Remember that Al Capone was imprisoned for failure to pay taxes on his ill-gotten gains, not for the crimes that he committed to make money.

In this case the actor begins by requesting tax advice. The advice he is given is actually pretty good. They were told to set up a business as a sole proprietorship and to deposit all receipts into a bank account and declare the income. They were advised to keep track of all expenditures and to deduct them from revenues to calculate the taxable profit and then to file tax returns making sure that there was a good paper trail for everything done. The woman was told that she could expect to be reported and to have the police called unless her activities were very discrete and did not bother neighbors. When asked about employees, the counselors said that those revenues also needed to be reported and that paperwork needed to be in order. The issue of the employees being illegal aliens and being underage was not brought up since the counselor made it clear that all paperwork needed to be in order.

All of that advice was good and consistent with the law. What they didn't do was to throw the couple out because they said they were involved in prostitution. I have no problem with that. Attorneys don't throw criminals out who come seeking representation and will answer questions that they are asked concerning what is or is not illegal.

The problem in the Baltimore office was that the couple was being advised to lie. That did not happen in the Washington office. Figuring out how to classify a business activity using the IRS categories is a challenge even if your occupation is legal. I see nothing wrong with a prostitute calling herself an "entertainer" in filing an income tax return. I'm just happy if the taxes are paid. The IRS used to have a category specifically for reporting illegal income. There were some court challenges on whether or not that violated 5th amendment protections and I do not think that category still exists. Prostitutes, drug dealers, contract killers, etc., are all required to pay income taxes. Even though the original crime may be a matter of state law, failure to pay taxes is a federal crime. How can it therefore be wrong to advise such people on how to comply with the law.

The only area where I heard the counselors possibly cross the line related to purchasing a house for the prostitute. They suggested that the man could buy the house and rent it to his girlfriend. As landlord he could deny knowledge of what was being done there. They also said that if he wanted to avoid arrest and protect his own reputation, he should not visit the property ever except to collect the rent. If he wanted to continue seeing his girlfriend they said it should be at his own house or in a different location. The counselors did not bite when the man asked if they could fabricate prior year returns to satisfy banks. Instead, the counselors said that all paperwork had to be in order. By the way, there would have been no problem if the couple filed income tax returns and paid their taxes for prior years. There would only be fraud if they prepared returns that were never filed and then gave those to a bank to secure a loan.


Jeff I am really surprised at your lack of how wrong this is. I asked a simple question. I asked if you thought if the things brought up on the first clip were OK. If I were one of those on tape I may play along long and get enough info to turn over to the police so they can be arrested.

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 11:59 AM
Jeff I am really surprised at your lack of how wrong this is. I asked a simple question. I asked if you thought if the things brought up on the first clip were OK. If I were one of those on tape I may play along long and get enough info to turn over to the police so they can be arrested.
Let me answer directly. I believe everyone should pay income taxes even if their income is from illegal sources. This is consistent with the law. I believe that tax counselors should be willing to counsel individuals wishing to pay taxes on how to pay taxes legally regardless of the source of income. The IRS website notes:

"Title 26 of the United States Code. The IRC, Section 61(a) defines gross income as ". . . all income from whatever source derived." This has been held by the courts to include income earned from illegal activities such as drug trafficking, embezzlement, extortion, healthcare fraud, bankruptcy fraud and numerous other crimes."

I would see no reason why an individual self employed as a prostitute would not file a Schedule C classifying the services rendered as, for example, 812890, Other Personal Services. This is a broad category for things not otherwise defined. There is no category for prostitution and, therefore, there is no fraud involved in classifying the service in the most appropriate alternative category.

By the way, I lived much of my life in Italy where prostitution is legal, regulated, and taxed. I saw nothing wrong with that then and see nothing wrong with it now. Sexual exploitation of children, whether you are the person "employing" child prostitutes or the person paying for their services, is evil. That doesn't mean that the revenues are not taxable.

EDIT: The actors described illegal behavior that included prostitution, sexual exploitation of minors, and employment of illegal aliens. All of these behaviors are illegal. However, what people say is not a crime and there would have been no basis whatsoever for the ACORN workers to call the police. The fact that the actors told the ACORN workers about crimes that they may or may not have committed does not make the ACORN workers party to any crimes. To the extent that ACORN workers provided advice on how to pay taxes legally, they acted correctly. To the extent that they advised fraudulent activity, they acted inappropriately, but not illegally since no documents were filed and no crime was committed. However, in that case, they should have been terminated. I saw what may have been advice to commit fraud in the Baltimore tape. I did not see such advice in the New York tape. The Washington tape appeared to indicate that the staff went into a gray area with respect to advice provided on concealing the activities for which the house would be used.

Steve Amrein
09-14-2009, 12:41 PM
Let me answer directly. I believe everyone should pay income taxes even if their income is from illegal sources. This is consistent with the law. I believe that tax counselors should be willing to counsel individuals wishing to pay taxes on how to pay taxes legally regardless of the source of income. The IRS website notes:

"Title 26 of the United States Code. The IRC, Section 61(a) defines gross income as ". . . all income from whatever source derived." This has been held by the courts to include income earned from illegal activities such as drug trafficking, embezzlement, extortion, healthcare fraud, bankruptcy fraud and numerous other crimes."

I would see no reason why an individual self employed as a prostitute would not file a Schedule C classifying the services rendered as, for example, 812890, Other Personal Services. This is a broad category for things not otherwise defined. There is no category for prostitution and, therefore, there is no fraud involved in classifying the service in the most appropriate alternative category.

By the way, I lived much of my life in Italy where prostitution is legal, regulated, and taxed. I saw nothing wrong with that then and see nothing wrong with it now. Sexual exploitation of children, whether you are the person "employing" child prostitutes or the person paying for their services, is evil. That doesn't mean that the revenues are not taxable.

EDIT: The actors described illegal behavior that included prostitution, sexual exploitation of minors, and employment of illegal aliens. All of these behaviors are illegal. However, what people say is not a crime and there would have been no basis whatsoever for the ACORN workers to call the police. The fact that the actors told the ACORN workers about crimes that they may or may not have committed does not make the ACORN workers party to any crimes. To the extent that ACORN workers provided advice on how to pay taxes legally, they acted correctly. To the extent that they advised fraudulent activity, they acted inappropriately, but not illegally since no documents were filed and no crime was committed. However, in that case, they should have been terminated. I saw what may have been advice to commit fraud in the Baltimore tape. I did not see such advice in the New York tape. The Washington tape appeared to indicate that the staff went into a gray area with respect to advice provided on concealing the activities for which the house would be used.


From Acorns website front page

ACORN



ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is the nation's largest community organization of low- and moderate-income families, working together for social justice and stronger communities.


So what part of " Social justice and stronger comunities" does illeagle imagration, tax evasion, sexplotation of minors and prostitution serve ? How does this benifit the comunity ?

Henry V
09-14-2009, 12:45 PM
http://www.lvrj.com/news/30613864.html


This old news is proof of their "influence"? Let me get this straight. Some of their employees submitted illegitimate voter registration cards that were caught by local elected officials which then resulted in some fictitious people who never intended to vote not being able to vote. What a tremendous influence they had indeed.

Could you point me to something in this article or elsewhere which shows how any of these alleged voter registration fraud incidents actually influenced the election? I can see how it influenced the right wing base given all the concern about ACORN here. All this stuff is well known. ACORN had voter registration campaigns like many other organizations. That is their job. Some people signed forms illegitimately and all submitted forms are required by law to be turned in. Some employees/contractors apparently made up names. Local election authorities caught these errors.

That story and others like it are almost a year old now. Who has been convicted for voter registration fraud since the election? More importantly, how much voting fraud has been prosecuted?
President Obama received 69,499,303 votes compared to 59,950,037 for John McCain. Are you saying that some of these votes were illegitimate because of ACORN and that their alleged actions tipped the votes to change the election? If so, it seems like the McCain and the RNC would be on this.
A speculative case could be made that demonizing ACORN rallies the base more than enough to easily offset whatever ACORN does to get more legally eligible people to vote.

ducknwork
09-14-2009, 01:13 PM
What makes you think that there were no registrations that made it through the system? It is not difficult to get a fake ID that someone could use to vote under one of the fictitious names. I would be shocked and surprised if there were not people who voted multiple times under multiple names. I personally know of at least one felon that voted. I am sure that he wasn't the only one nationwide. I am not saying that any of this would add up to 10 million votes, but for you to say that there is no chance of any influence is incredibly naive.
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YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 01:26 PM
http://www.lvrj.com/news/30613864.html



A little (sort of) humor from the same article

There is a huge difference between registering a voter and voting. Under PA law, which is relatively typical as far as I know, the voter registration form is completed and signed by the applicant. The form now requires that the applicant enter a PA drivers license number, the last four digits of their SSN, or enter the word NONE. In signing the form, the signer is executing an oath and may be prosecuted for perjury in the event of fraudulent entries. Several people have been prosecuted based on this, including a couple of people working for ACORN as well as a couple of Republican committee people).

The person collecting the form as part of a registration drive is legally permitted to extract information from the form, copy the form and make use of it in almost any way desired. However, they are not permitted to change the information and are required to submit it. The election board makes almost no effort whatsoever to verify the information on the form. Instead, the voter registration list sent to the polling station identifies the individual as a first time voter. As such they are required to provide valid identification and proof of address when they vote. That is the protection against fraud.

In fact, the errors which occur are almost entirely the result of activities that prevent legitimate voters from exercising their rights to vote. In a sample of 10,000 voter registration cards submitted in Allegheny County in 2004, 8,000 were actually entered into the database. A voter assistance organization was able to get 500 more of these entered prior to the registration deadline, but the balance were never processed for various reasons.

The theory in these cases is that the voter will attempt to vote, be denied, and then complete a provisional ballot. A judge will review these cases and determine whether or not to count the ballot. In fact, in the 2004 election, only 12 provisional ballots were sent to each polling station. This proved to be totally inadequate. Hundreds of people were told that they had no recourse and were sent away. A few managed to get to a court where a judge ruled that the court would stay open until 9:30 to permit provisional ballots to be filed. However, most of those turned away simply went home.

The reality is that the primary form of voter fraud practiced in America today is the implementation of "security" procedures designed to challenge the ability of valid voters to cast their ballots, knowing that the difficulties of going to court will deter most of the votes from ever being cast. This has been shown by investigation after investigation, and in one case resulted in the RNC entering into a consent decree where it agreed to stop a tactic called caging that it had employed systematically to challenge minority and low income voters over a period of almost 20 years (see http://www.projectvote.org/images/publications/Voter%20Caging/DNC_v_RNC_1986_Consent_Decree_1.pdf).

JDogger
09-14-2009, 01:30 PM
What makes you think that there were no registrations that made it through the system? It is not difficult to get a fake ID that someone could use to vote under one of the fictitious names. I would be shocked and surprised if there were not people who voted multiple times under multiple names. I personally know of at least one felon that voted. I am sure that he wasn't the only one nationwide. I am not saying that any of this would add up to 10 million votes, but for you to say that there is no chance of any influence is incredibly naive.

I'm willing to accept your premise that there may have been some fraudulent voter registrations, some cases of multiple votes, and some felons who voted. If you think this doesn't take place to some small degree in both parties, then you are the one that is incredibly naive. If such actions take place on both sides, what then is the nature of any influence overall?

Bob Gutermuth
09-14-2009, 01:32 PM
ACORN office in NY busted by the same crew.http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/14/lawmakers-continue-probes-acorn/

ducknwork
09-14-2009, 01:35 PM
I'm willing to accept your premise that there may have been some fraudulent voter registrations, some cases of multiple votes, and some felons who voted. If you think this doesn't take place to some small degree in both parties, then you are the one that is incredibly naive. If such actions take place on both sides, what then is the nature of any influence overall?

I am sure that it happens in both parties. That would be naive to think it didn't.

I am not sure about New Mexico, but most of the felons around here probably won't be voting republican or especially against Obama, if you catch my drift.;-)
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Eric Johnson
09-14-2009, 01:36 PM
My point was that FOX apparently had nothing to do with making of the tapes and was being sued. If their lawyers are quick, that suit by ACORN could be their death knell.

If ACORN personnel have done nothing wrong, then the their firing by ACORN doesn't speak very highly of ACORN's management policies. Maybe the personnel would have a suit as well.

This could be fun.

Eric
pulling up a chair to watch

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 02:45 PM
From Acorns website front page

ACORN



ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is the nation's largest community organization of low- and moderate-income families, working together for social justice and stronger communities.


So what part of " Social justice and stronger comunities" does illeagle imagration, tax evasion, sexplotation of minors and prostitution serve ? How does this benifit the comunity ?
ACORN provides tax advice to members of the community under a partnership that at least used to exist with H&R Block. It is one of their core counseling services which they initiated when surveys indicated that a very large percentage of those eligible for child and other tax credits were not receiving them. They work with the people that walk in. I suspect that the actors were not the first suspected or actual prostitutes seen. I also suspect that they have worked with a number of immigrants -- legal or not -- who want to pay taxes knowing that their ability to prove tax payments may ultimately affect their ability to qualify for any amnesty programs.

Henry V
09-14-2009, 02:56 PM
What makes you think that there were no registrations that made it through the system? It is not difficult to get a fake ID that someone could use to vote under one of the fictitious names. I would be shocked and surprised if there were not people who voted multiple times under multiple names. I personally know of at least one felon that voted. I am sure that he wasn't the only one nationwide. I am not saying that any of this would add up to 10 million votes, but for you to say that there is no chance of any influence is incredibly naive.
Could you please point out where I said that there were "no" fraudulent votes cast? or where I said that there was "no chance of any influence".

You may recall that earlier in this thread the following statements were made.

ACORN is more dangerous than the Taliban.

This group is also loaded with cash...which buys a lot of influence...an oblique power to be sure.

And...they are totally unregulated.

Acorn is a damn den of snakes. They hide behind a Byzantine web of inter-connected organizations and non-profits to skirt laws and make it difficult to "follow the money" as they further their crazy-left agenda to achieve a democratic majority capable of voting themselves money out of the minority's pocketbooks....

If you think for a moment an organization as corrupt as ACORN has no power, you are a buffoon. With the porkulus they've been awarded, it's doubtful this nation will ever again see another believable election.

ACORN is the most corrupt organization the democrats have ever formed. They have absolutely no regard for the law and you could take a hidden camera into any of their offices and see the same corruption as we saw last week in just two of their shops. Our Dear Fuhrer is no doubt the CEO of ACORN and they take their orders from him. I suppose that means he's ok with kidnapping under-age girls from El Salvador for use as sex slaves in America.

We should take a flame thrower to ACORN.

Some factually challenged statements like these could lead someone to think that ACORN is some sort of powerful organization with a great capacity to affect national policy, so, in the interest of getting information, I asked

If they are so powerful, could someone point to the legislation that they have ever influenced in Congress, the political candidates that seek or get their endorsement, or how much they spend on lobbying annually? As Jeff pointed out, the organization has been around for almost 40 years. Answering these questions should be easy.

You and RK have now told me that they had a lot of influence on the last election but nothing has been presented to back up this claim. As you point out, a few fraudulent voters are expected on all sides. You do not even say whether that felon you know of was recruited by ACORN. Since you omitted the claim I will assume this was not ACORN related.

If they break the law, authorities should hold them accountable. As I asked earlier, where are all the voter fraud convictions? Where exactly is all the "influence"? If they are well funded, what influence does that money buy compared to all the other money out there having influence

Hew
09-14-2009, 03:23 PM
Some factually challenged statements like these could lead someone to think that ACORN is some sort of powerful organization with a great capacity to affect national policy, so, in the interest of getting information, I asked
Whew, Henry. You spent a lot of time cut-n-pasting quotes from this thread but you conveniently left one out:


Given that Acorn has an annual budget of 100 million dollars, I don't know how you can claim that they're powerless. That kind of budget puts them in the same league as the NRA, and in some years it appears to exceed the budgets of the DNC and RNC. Moreover, why would political activist organizations like the Tides Foundation, George Soros, SEIU, etc. donate millions each year to a "powerless" organization like Acorn.

Care to tackle addressing any of the facts and opinions in that one?

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 03:29 PM
I think that they have been effective in a few areas. They were effective in lobbying for legislative and regulatory controls over predatory lending. They were also effective at lobbying banks directly to reduce predatory lending programs and to get those same banks to provide foreclosure a assistance and credit counseling for customers that were overextended. They were effective along the Gulf Coast in lobbying FEMA to prevent evictions from trailers and to expedite other forms of housing and relocation assistance. They have been effective across the country in lobbying developers and communities for the construction of more affordable housing. They were effective in the 2004 election in setting up programs to assist voters who were turned away at the polls, fielding thousands of calls, assisting people in obtaining and pursuing provisional ballots, and participating in a variety of post-election investigations of activities that had the effect of denying votes to legal voters. Finally, they have helped in the registration of a reported 1.7 million new voters, many of whom voted legally and appropriately in the 2008 election.

Calling ACORN powerless would be an overstatement. I would say that they are less powerful than the NRA, the pharmaceutical lobby, any of the major political parties, any of the major industry lobbying groups (defense, technology, financial services, utilities, attorneys, etc.), and any of the major media empires which today translates to FOX/Newscorp and a lot of distant seconds. I would say they are more powerful than many of the goo-goo groups (aka Good Government types) such as Common Cause and sweet do-right groups such as the Council of Churches. While they like to claim the power of 400,000 members to indicate voting power, there is little to indicate that they can actually direct a significant number votes in one direction vs another or that they can affect turnout significantly in swing districts. However, this last capability is the one they are trying to refine.

ducknwork
09-14-2009, 03:39 PM
Could you please point out where I said that there were "no" fraudulent votes cast? or where I said that there was "no chance of any influence".

You and RK have now told me that they had a lot of influence on the last election but nothing has been presented to back up this claim.

I will point that out as soon as you point out where I said they have 'a lot' of influence on the last election.

Hurry-I am holding my breath...
________
Infant Wellbutrin (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

ducknwork
09-14-2009, 03:41 PM
While they like to claim the power of 400,000 members to indicate voting power, there is little to indicate that they can actually direct a significant number votes in one direction vs another or that they can affect turnout significantly in swing districts. However, this last capability is the one they are trying to refine.

I doubt they have to try to swing those votes in one direction or another. Being that they are a group that targets low income people, I think those 400,000 votes are firmly planted on the democrat's side.

It would be similar to the NRA trying to get their members to vote republican. Redundant.
________
MILF NEXTDOOR (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/780/nextdoor/videos/1)

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 03:47 PM
Whew, Henry. You spent a lot of time cut-n-pasting quotes from this thread but you conveniently left one out:

Given that Acorn has an annual budget of 100 million dollars, I don't know how you can claim that they're powerless. That kind of budget puts them in the same league as the NRA, and in some years it appears to exceed the budgets of the DNC and RNC. Moreover, why would political activist organizations like the Tides Foundation, George Soros, SEIU, etc. donate millions each year to a "powerless" organization like Acorn.

Care to tackle addressing any of the facts and opinions in that one?
I'm not sure of the source of the $100 million estimate, but I haven't found any facts that I consider to be any more reliable either. The Conservative version of Wikipedia estimates thei annual budget at $56 million. While that is still a lot of money, its potential for political leverage is weakened by the fact that it seems to be going primarily to hourly community workers rather than to politicians. If anything, I suspect that ACORN is subject to the same types of emasculating patronage disputes that have routinely plagued most community based social service programs. They have too many offices, too many low level employees, and too few managers, lobyyists, and publications to be more effective politically. The people that they are most able to influence are people who live in solidly Democratic districts and will vote Democratic 95% of the time no matter what ACORN does. By contrast, the NRA focuses its money on political contributions and is very quick to reward and punish politicians using the full weight of its finances and its communications network.

ACORN is primarily in the services business. It is most effective politically when it can embarrass its targets with a turnout of poor minorities with protest signs. That works great at local bank branches, but is less effective in most state houses and in Washington.

The NRA used to be primarily in the services business until it discovered it could make more money for its officers by playing politics. ACORN was almost destroyed when it turned out that the brother of the founder embezzeled over $900,000 over a period of many years. The brother was terminated, the founder resigned and began paying back his brother's theft, and leadership was heavily disrupted. By contrast, Wayne LaPierre makes more than that every year just for influencing politics. I guess you put your money where your heart is and reap the rewards.

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 03:50 PM
I doubt they have to try to swing those votes in one direction or another. Being that they are a group that targets low income people, I think those 400,000 votes are firmly planted on the democrat's side.

It would be similar to the NRA trying to get their members to vote republican. Redundant.
I think you mean getting NRA members to vote liberal.;-) Exactly my point. Influence over voters comes from being able to change minds, not from simply representing minds that are already made up. The NRA has shown the ability, particularly in primaries, to defeat incumbents that it felt were too soft. You don't have to do that many times to make your point in Washington.

JDogger
09-14-2009, 04:03 PM
I am sure that it happens in both parties. That would be naive to think it didn't. Isn't that what I just said?

I am not sure about New Mexico, but most of the felons around here probably won't be voting republican or especially against Obama, if you catch my drift.;-)

Google Republican felons. There's quite a list. Of course these are the big names. The small fry repub felons I'm sure make up a fair share of any general population.

Hew
09-14-2009, 04:22 PM
I'm not sure of the source of the $100 million estimate, but I haven't found any facts that I consider to be any more reliable either. The Conservative version of Wikipedia estimates thei annual budget at $56 million.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ef/ACORN.svg/200px-ACORN.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ACORN.svg)
AbbreviationACORN
Formation1970
Type Non-governmental organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-governmental_organization)
Headquarters New Orleans, Louisiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans,_Louisiana)
Region served USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA), Peru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peru), Argentina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina), Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico), India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India), Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada)
President Maude Hurd (1990-present)
Budget $100 Million USD+
Websitewww.acorn.org (http://www.acorn.org)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_ Now

gman0046
09-14-2009, 04:26 PM
Acorn is the type of outfit Osama was involved with as a community organizer. Its a shame the person heading the most powerful nation in the world NEVER ran anything as big as a Dairy Queen. Anyone wonder hoe he screwed everything up so fast?

Henry V
09-14-2009, 05:30 PM
Hew, did you miss where I stated at the end
.... If they are well funded, what influence does that money buy compared to all the other money out there having influence.
I am just asking questions to get information. Clearly, you and others here have strong opinions about this organization. I do not. Since you do, I thought those opinions might be based on solid information and you could then answer some basic questions about the organization and their supposed influence. Questions like, Do they lobby? How much money do they spend on lobbying?, what bills have they influenced?, etc. No one here seems to be able to answer these questions yet many hold such strong opinions.

Can you point to anything specific that their money has done to influence policy that you disagree with? They have been around for 40 years. How does their influence compare to the NRA, the insurance industry, the auto industry, ducks unlimited, etc. Their website states that they have influence on issues yet no one here could site anything specific. What specific items in their policy agenda do you disagree with?

Henry V
09-14-2009, 05:38 PM
I will point that out as soon as you point out where I said they have 'a lot' of influence on the last election.

Hurry-I am holding my breath...
You are right. You never indicated they have a lot of influence. In fact, all you did was post evidence that they had very little, if any actual influence on the last election.
Sorry for the delay.

Uncle Bill
09-14-2009, 05:57 PM
Another EPL eye-opener:

"ACORN is primarily in the services business. It is most effective politically when it can embarrass its targets with a turnout of poor minorities with protest signs. That works great at local bank branches, but is less effective in most state houses and in Washington."

Yeh, they have little effect in the outcome of elections...sorta like AIM had a few years ago that got our brain-damaged Senator re-elected in Sodak...Primarily by the Res vote, where more ballots were counted than voters existed. Afganistan has nothing on Sodakers.

Hellsbells, Yardley, paying those 'members' ANYTHING per vote will lead to corruption, and you know it. Stop defending the indefensible. You are supposed to be more intelligent than that.

UB

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 06:09 PM
Another EPL eye-opener:

"ACORN is primarily in the services business. It is most effective politically when it can embarrass its targets with a turnout of poor minorities with protest signs. That works great at local bank branches, but is less effective in most state houses and in Washington."

Yeh, they have little effect in the outcome of elections...sorta like AIM had a few years ago that got our brain-damaged Senator re-elected in Sodak...Primarily by the Res vote, where more ballots were counted than voters existed. Afganistan has nothing on Sodakers.

Hellsbells, Yardley, paying those 'members' ANYTHING per vote will lead to corruption, and you know it. Stop defending the indefensible. You are supposed to be more intelligent than that.

UB
UB, if ACORN could afford to pay Congressmen as much as they are paid by the NRA, the ABA, Pharma, etc., they would be very powerful. However, if you check on big campaign donors, you won't find them listed.

EDIT: To place this in context, between 1989 and 2008, the NRA spent over $50 million in independent political advertising. ACORN spent zero. The UAW spent $11 million.

Gerry Clinchy
09-14-2009, 06:36 PM
I heard on Medved today that there was a Senate vote to strip ACORN of all their Federal funding, and that the vote passed.

The tape played from the Brooklyn office visit had the pimp & girlfriend being advised to bury the money [from child prostitution] in the backyard.

In response to ACORN's attorney asking for an injunction against further broadcasting of the tapes, supposedly the court ruled that since FOX was not involved in the "set-up", they were not precluded from broadcasting the tapes.

Am not offering any "interpretation" ... just the info I heard today.

Henry V
09-14-2009, 06:39 PM
I think that they have been effective in a few areas. They were effective in lobbying for legislative and regulatory controls over predatory lending. They were also effective at lobbying banks directly to reduce predatory lending programs and to get those same banks to provide foreclosure a assistance and credit counseling for customers that were overextended. They were effective along the Gulf Coast in lobbying FEMA to prevent evictions from trailers and to expedite other forms of housing and relocation assistance. They have been effective across the country in lobbying developers and communities for the construction of more affordable housing. They were effective in the 2004 election in setting up programs to assist voters who were turned away at the polls, fielding thousands of calls, assisting people in obtaining and pursuing provisional ballots, and participating in a variety of post-election investigations of activities that had the effect of denying votes to legal voters. Finally, they have helped in the registration of a reported 1.7 million new voters, many of whom voted legally and appropriately in the 2008 election.

Calling ACORN powerless would be an overstatement. I would say that they are less powerful than the NRA, the pharmaceutical lobby, any of the major political parties, any of the major industry lobbying groups (defense, technology, financial services, utilities, attorneys, etc.), and any of the major media empires which today translates to FOX/Newscorp and a lot of distant seconds. I would say they are more powerful than many of the goo-goo groups (aka Good Government types) such as Common Cause and sweet do-right groups such as the Council of Churches. While they like to claim the power of 400,000 members to indicate voting power, there is little to indicate that they can actually direct a significant number votes in one direction vs another or that they can affect turnout significantly in swing districts. However, this last capability is the one they are trying to refine.
Thanks for posting information on the what ACORN has done to influence policy and offering an opinion on how they compare to other groups.
I now see why so many here have nothing but contempt for them, think they are very influential, and believe that they are worse than the Taliban:)

Hew
09-14-2009, 08:38 PM
Hew, did you miss where I stated at the end.
I am just asking questions to get information. Clearly, you and others here have strong opinions about this organization. I do not. Since you do, I thought those opinions might be based on solid information and you could then answer some basic questions about the organization and their supposed influence. Questions like, Do they lobby? How much money do they spend on lobbying?, what bills have they influenced?, etc. No one here seems to be able to answer these questions yet many hold such strong opinions.

Can you point to anything specific that their money has done to influence policy that you disagree with? They have been around for 40 years. How does their influence compare to the NRA, the insurance industry, the auto industry, ducks unlimited, etc. Their website states that they have influence on issues yet no one here could site anything specific. What specific items in their policy agenda do you disagree with?
You can repeat your questions ad naseum (actually, I think we're beyond that now), but for the most part they are unanswerable. The gist of your questions revolves around is, "Can you prove Acorn has political clout?" There is volumes of circumstantial evidence that suggests they most definately have substantial political clout. Much of which has been listed and you've poo-poo'ed it, so I'm not going to bother adding to the list.

You've contrasted Acorn with Washington lobbyists. OK. So let's turn the tables and play your game. Show me concrete proof that lobbyists in Washington effect votes or actually accomplish anything tangible. What bill was passed because a lobbyist or special interest bought votes? Which Congressman has sold their vote? You'll need concrete proof, of course...like the names of some convicted Congressmen. Oh, and if you only have a couple of names in the past few decades then those are, as you guys excuse Acorn, just isolated instances and not proof of widespread corruption. I won't hold my breath waiting for all of your proof.

Even despite the lack of concrete proof that lobbyists effect votes, it would be pretty stupid to presume that they don't. Afterall, why would there be so many of them in DC and why would so many organizations and special intersts pay them if they didn't get results? Likewise, it is equally stupid to argue that despite their 100 million budget and the various political activist organizations that help fund them, that Acorn doesn't provide a valuable service to their lefty clients...like, oh, I don't know...the Obama Presidential Campaign in '08 which paid them $800k for get-out-the-vote work. Oh, but I guess since some of those newly registered voters could have been McCain voters then I really can't prove anything concrete. My bad.

zeus3925
09-14-2009, 08:56 PM
Until the latest brew-ha-ha I thought ACORN was a group of reforming alcoholics that picked up thier two miles of highway trash. I did do some lobbying with State and Federal governments. I never ran into them.

Hew is right though when he says lobbyists do greatly affect legislation. That is if the citizenry isn't aroused. Give me 200-300 hand writen letters from constituents and I 'll put brakes on a multi-million dollar lobbying effort.

YardleyLabs
09-14-2009, 09:48 PM
I heard on Medved today that there was a Senate vote to strip ACORN of all their Federal funding, and that the vote passed.

The tape played from the Brooklyn office visit had the pimp & girlfriend being advised to bury the money [from child prostitution] in the backyard.

In response to ACORN's attorney asking for an injunction against further broadcasting of the tapes, supposedly the court ruled that since FOX was not involved in the "set-up", they were not precluded from broadcasting the tapes.

Am not offering any "interpretation" ... just the info I heard today.
You might want to listen to what is actually said on the tape in the segment talking about "burying" the money. It doesn't appear to have any context but the statement made is that if "Tom Jones is going to come and beat you and want money" ten you put it in a tin nd bury and tell no one where it is. There is no indication of what question was asked or what story was told leading up to this statement. (See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrpRGZq7Z-U)

Bob Gutermuth
09-15-2009, 05:02 PM
Another ACORN video has been released. This time the San Bernadino Cal office was down with sponsoring hookers and underaged illegal aliens in the sex trade. See the video at www.biggovernment.com

road kill
09-17-2009, 06:46 AM
ACORN funding so far:

$1,000,000 grant from FEMA (just 2 weeks ago)
$800,000 from the Obama Presedential campaign (more to follow)

zeus3925
09-17-2009, 07:35 AM
Gov. Pawlenty of Minnesota has directed that all current state funding for ACORN be withheld.

However, it has been years since the state spent any money on ACORN.

Its nice to have informed politicians watching our money.

road kill
09-17-2009, 08:59 AM
Gov. Pawlenty of Minnesota has directed that all current state funding for ACORN be withheld.

However, it has been years since the state spent any money on ACORN.

Its nice to have informed politicians watching our money.

You mean like Ms Pelosi??:p


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/pelosi_clueless_about_cash_cut_off_ZHSkPZ2Mbhr5pho qht5GHN

code3retrievers
09-17-2009, 09:39 AM
[quote=TXduckdog;497412]If the Census Bureau hires outreach workers to help count people in the inner cities (as they should), does that mean those employees are now in charge of the Census? The Census is run by the Census Bureau. Thousands of individuals and contractors are hired to help. ACORN offices may or may not have a role. They will not run the Census.


.

How do you think fraud happens. It works on a local level with thousands of "workers" counting hundreds of thousands of nonexistent people. They showed their true colors when they had voter registrations with the late Paul Newman and half of the Dallas Cowboys. They did this kind of thing in most everywhere they operate.

They are a fraudulent group. Also they were set to receive around 8 billion dollars in the stimulus until the Republicans found it. Obama's admin defended it before it was removed.

You just have to look at the intent of this administration to find its corrupt heart after all Obama was part of Acorn at one time, remember his only real job was as a community organizer.

YardleyLabs
09-17-2009, 09:56 AM
[quote=YardleyLabs;497534]

How do you think fraud happens. It works on a local level with thousands of "workers" counting hundreds of thousands of nonexistent people. They showed their true colors when they had voter registrations with the late Paul Newman and half of the Dallas Cowboys. They did this kind of thing in most everywhere they operate.

They are a fraudulent group. Also they were set to receive around 8 billion dollars in the stimulus until the Republicans found it. Obama's admin defended it before it was removed.

You just have to look at the intent of this administration to find its corrupt heart after all Obama was part of Acorn at one time, remember his only real job was as a community organizer.
There was never any language in an y bill allocating $8 billion for ACORN.

WRL
09-17-2009, 10:15 AM
[quote=code3retrievers;500890]
There was never any language in an y bill allocating $8 billion for ACORN.

Yesterday on the Today show, they covered some of the ACORN stuff.

They reported that ACORN has received 50 million dollars in the last 10 years (I think that was the time frame).

You could probably do a search on what they reported.

WRL

YardleyLabs
09-17-2009, 10:21 AM
[quote=YardleyLabs;500900]

Yesterday on the Today show, they covered some of the ACORN stuff.

They reported that ACORN has received 50 million dollars in the last 10 years (I think that was the time frame).

You could probably do a search on what they reported.

WRL
The reports that have been around for a while is that they have received a total of $53 million over a period of 15 years. Most of that was received under the Bush administration. Federal funds have not, as far as I have been able to determine, ever been a major part of the ACORN budget. In fact, most of ACORN's activities are undertaken as a private company with no government funds and no requirements for public disclosure.

zeus3925
09-17-2009, 10:39 AM
You mean like Ms Pelosi??:p


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/pelosi_clueless_about_cash_cut_off_ZHSkPZ2Mbhr5pho qht5GHN

Yep, exactly. But, I don't get to vote for/against Pelosi. Pawlenty wants to be POTUS.

cotts135
09-17-2009, 02:18 PM
Oh my god Acorn is found to have some employees who try to scam the system.
In the last 15 year alone they have received 53 million dollars. And now they have been uncovered and been shown to have some unscrupulous employees who might funnel a few extra bucks to their friends or neighbors.
C'mon now is this really worth the attention it has been getting?
How about a reality check here. What about the no bid contracts given to some of the private contractors who were paid billions to help with the wars in Afganistan and Iraq. Or even worse the bailout of the financial industry who now we are finding out are using tax payer money to help pay out some of these absurd bonuses we hear about. I am not saying that these people at Acorn are justified in what there doing, if they are stealing or cheating the system then do what needs to be done including prosecution, but I think that the crumbs these people receive from Acorn should be put into perspective. When compared to the largess and excesses of Wall St it is not even a contest.

gman0046
09-17-2009, 02:32 PM
Obama's up to his behind with Acorn, he gave them $800,000 out of his campaign finances. Whose responsible for the stimulus plan? You guessed it Osama again.

Evan
09-17-2009, 02:39 PM
ACORN wants another $6 million despite scandals

By: Kevin Mooney (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bios/kevin-mooney.html)
Commentary Staff Writer
09/14/09 1:51 PM EDT

An ACORN affiliate has just submitted applications for over $6 million in government funding, despite the controversial videos of the organization’s workers aiding a child prostitution “promoter.”
Employees with the Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now (ACORN) in Washington D.C., Baltimore and Brooklyn told uncover investigators posing as a pimp and a prostitute how they could circumvent the law. ACORN has already fired four of the workers. But it claims the tapes have been “doctored” and “edited.”
A third video implicating the ACORN workers was released today. Meanwhile, the ACORN Institute, one of many ACORN affiliates, has applied for over $6 million in grant money for broadband projects. ACORN and its various affiliates have received at least $53 million in federal funds since 1994.

Above is a portion of an article from the Washington Examiner website
Evan

Uncle Bill
09-17-2009, 02:56 PM
UB, if ACORN could afford to pay Congressmen as much as they are paid by the NRA, the ABA, Pharma, etc., they would be very powerful. However, if you check on big campaign donors, you won't find them listed.

EDIT: To place this in context, between 1989 and 2008, the NRA spent over $50 million in independent political advertising. ACORN spent zero. The UAW spent $11 million.


I may have to renege on my moniker for you. When did I say Acorn was a lobbying organization? They are a corrupt organization, given 800 grand by Obama to sign up voters, which they did. Much like AIM did in Sodak, they paid 'workers' to sign up voters at "X-amount-of-$-per-vote".

But then, that is apparently quite normal for you Democrats, so I understand why it wouldn't raise any eyebrows in your camp.

If you feel buying votes isn't a show of power, you just aren't listening to the braying end of your donkey.

UB

gman0046
09-17-2009, 03:03 PM
Yardley you just don't get it. Acorn doesn't give they only take. Who ever said they were a lobbying entity? You don't have a clue.

Bob Gutermuth
09-17-2009, 03:34 PM
House Republicans succeeded Thursday in eliminating federal funding to ACORN, the community organizing group that has come under heavy fire in the wake of damaging undercover videos that purport to show advisers giving tax fraud advice to a "pimp" and "prostitute."
The House voted 345-75 to strike ACORN funding from a student aid bill with two voting present.
House Minority Whip Eric Cantor, R-Va., applauded the vote.
"ACORN has violated serious federal laws, and today, the House voted to ensure that taxpayer dollars would no longer be used to fund this corrupt organization," he said in a written statement. "All federal ties should be severed with ACORN, and the FBI should investigate its activity.
"This united Republican effort to defund ACORN is a victory for the rule of law and taxpayers across the country."
The vote was essentially symbolic because the student aid bill did not actually provide any funding to ACORN. But it does give Republicans more momentum as they continue to keep the pressure on ACORN, which is on its heels.
In a procedural tactic known as "motion to recommit," Republicans essentially forced Democrats, who control the House, to vote on an issue that may leave some of them vulnerable in next year's mid-term elections.
Republicans now have the firepower to run ads highlighting this vote, saying: "This lawmaker voted against defunding ACORN."
But at least one Democrat who voted to strip funding, Rep. Zack Space of Ohio, said he was "outraged" by a series of videos taken by two undercover filmmakers dressed up as a pimp and a prostitute in order to get advice at local ACORN establishments on how to set up their brothel to pay taxes and get grants for federal funding.
"I am outraged at the actions of ACORN's employees and believe they should be penalized to the full extent of the law," said Space. "Our government must be vigilant in ensuring that organizations that are found to act fraudulently do not receive taxpayer dollars."
FOX News' Chad Pergram contributed to this report.

Gerry Clinchy
09-17-2009, 07:14 PM
Front page news in our local paper that Pennsylvania's Bob Casey was one of the Senators to vote against stripping ACORN's funding.

ducknwork
09-18-2009, 06:21 AM
[B]ACORN has already fired four of the workers. But it claims the tapes have been ?doctored? and ?edited.?


I have to callBS. If the videos were doctored, why would ACORN fire the workers? After all they did nothing wrong...:rolleyes:
________
OUTDOOR FORCED (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/800/forced/videos/1)

Evan
09-18-2009, 06:32 AM
That may actually even be transparent enough for those devoted to the "defend all things leftist" Kool-Aid drinkers. This one is so obvious.

Evan

dnf777
09-18-2009, 07:46 AM
That may actually even be transparent enough for those devoted to the "defend all things leftist" Kool-Aid drinkers. This one is so obvious.

Evan

There was nothing doctored, and those involved in the tapes should be not only fired, but investigated for criminal charges.

I'm not familiar with ACORN, other than what I see on conservative news outlets, and it appears they do good work to help people for the most part, with a few bad apples. Likening the entire organization to those caught on tape, is like branding all republicans based on the few cooks who make gorilla jokes about the obamas or print funny money with obama, fried chicken and watermelons on it.

I find it ironic that independent voters largely determined this election, and will likely determine the next one, and NO one is organizing these cooky, exaggerated protests in either direction form the independent center. Why don't the parties campaign to these folks, and stay on topic, and cast out their swift-boaters and acorners?

Evan
09-18-2009, 08:05 AM
There was nothing doctored, and those involved in the tapes should be not only fired, but investigated for criminal charges.

I'm not familiar with ACORN, other than what I see on conservative news outlets, and it appears they do good work to help people for the most part, with a few bad apples. Likening the entire organization to those caught on tape, is like branding all republicans based on the few cooks who make gorilla jokes about the obamas or print funny money with obama, fried chicken and watermelons on it.

I find it ironic that independent voters largely determined this election, and will likely determine the next one, and NO one is organizing these cooky, exaggerated protests in either direction form the independent center. Why don't the parties campaign to these folks, and stay on topic, and cast out their swift-boaters and acorners?I appreciate your thoughts. But I do hope you will give more effort to finding out on your own just who these people really are. Most people are just now finding out about them, and what they stand for because of this breaking news story. But there is nothing new about how corrupt to the core these people are, and it starts with the top of the organization and runs through all its appendages.

ACORN has a long and inglorious history of corruption, and is currently under investigation for voter fraud in 14 states at last count. But I'll stop there and let you look on your own. I try mostly to post up some information now and then, and let people make of it what they will.

Evan

Raymond Little
09-18-2009, 10:56 AM
Can't wait for them to tye them to the SEIU another bunch of Crooks.:rolleyes:


http://patterico.com/2009/09/17/louisiana-ag-investigates-acorn/

gman0046
09-18-2009, 12:02 PM
Both houses of the US Congress have voted to cut off all funding to the criminal organization ACORN. Still nothing out of the White House regarding this issue. I wonder why? Surely it couldn't be the fact Obama worked for them.

ducknwork
09-18-2009, 01:09 PM
He is gauging the public response so that he can play to the crowd when he finally speaks. Similar to what he did when speaking about AIG bonuses and waiting to release the speech to the schools. After he sees how the general public reacts, he will say something that doesn't put him in any hot water. When he actually speaks about something in a timely manner, we get fiascos like the Cambridge police cluster@@@@.
________
BMW 3 SERIES (E21) (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_(E21))

cotts135
09-22-2009, 06:53 AM
When interests collide with principles it seems interests always come on top.This article illustrates this perfectly and just because it is republicans cited in the article it is by no means limitied to just them. Democrats are just as guilty. http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/09/25-senators-who-voted-to-cut-off-acorn-opposed-contracting-reform-in-2006.html
It is not hard to see that no matter who is defrauding the government it is wrong, and if politicians want to play politics with principles than they should be held accountable.

Hew
09-22-2009, 07:45 AM
When interests collide with principles it seems interests always come on top.This article illustrates this perfectly and just because it is republicans cited in the article it is by no means limitied to just them. Democrats are just as guilty. http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/09/25-senators-who-voted-to-cut-off-acorn-opposed-contracting-reform-in-2006.html
It is not hard to see that no matter who is defrauding the government it is wrong, and if politicians want to play politics with principles than they should be held accountable.
Fascinating reading there, Cotts. A New Orleans based community activist sticking up for a New Orleans based community activist organization. I mean, that's so surprising. And while we're pretending that the article isn't written by a left wing hack who works hand-in-hand with Acorn sucking up Katrina relief money, let's pretend that the whole uproar about Acorn is because they were defrauding the government (even though Yardley and others claim that Acorn doesn't really get any fed money anyway). Sorry, but there aren't enough eye-rolling smilie thingamabobs to suffice.

Bob Gutermuth
09-22-2009, 09:45 AM
George Stephenopolis (sp) asked the messiah about ACRAP on sunday. The reply was to the effect that osama hadn't been following the story as he had more important things on his plate. If that isn't a typical reply for a dishonest Chicago politician I don't know what is. POTUS should be interested in all corruption involving taxpayers money being wasted.

cotts135
09-22-2009, 11:37 AM
Fascinating reading there, Cotts. A New Orleans based community activist sticking up for a New Orleans based community activist organization. I mean, that's so surprising. And while we're pretending that the article isn't written by a left wing hack who works hand-in-hand with Acorn sucking up Katrina relief money, let's pretend that the whole uproar about Acorn is because they were defrauding the government (even though Yardley and others claim that Acorn doesn't really get any fed money anyway). Sorry, but there aren't enough eye-rolling smilie thingamabobs to suffice.

Not once in your reply did you refute what the article claimed. Instead of shooting the messenger read what was said then judge if the claims are valid. The main claim here is that 23 House members voted to investigate Acorn but when it came time to look into the actions of Blackwater they said aaaaaaaaaaaah maybe not. My question then is if there are activities going on that might be illegal or are fleecing taxpayers of money then why is ok to look into one and not the other?

YardleyLabs
09-22-2009, 11:50 AM
It is of interest that the San Diego ACORN employee who was filmed by O'Keefe discussing illegal importation of minors actually reported the incident to the police shortly afterward, working through his cousin and a national task force on human smuggling. He attempted to investigate further when the police requested additional information and reported that it appeared the whole thing had been a hoax. He was fired by ACORN following publication of the film several weeks later. ACORN is reconsidering its action. I'm sure that FOX will report this development in the story eventually just to be "fair and balanced". (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/politics/PoliceACORN-Employee-Reported-Alleged-Smuggling.html)

Evan
09-22-2009, 03:19 PM
According to ABC that account isn't quite accurate, and they have additional video to back it up. Juan Carlos is recorded only to have offered to call the police, but did not do so. Instead, new video shows him clearly being told that the "pimp" was planning to bring under aged hookers into the country and needed help. Juan is seen and heard offering copious helpful tips on how to do just that, and how to get away with it.

This story isn't over, and Fox isn't the only network telling the truth about this, even though they often are.

Evan

YardleyLabs
09-22-2009, 04:09 PM
According to ABC that account isn't quite accurate, and they have additional video to back it up. Juan Carlos is recorded only to have offered to call the police, but did not do so. Instead, new video shows him clearly being told that the "pimp" was planning to bring under aged hookers into the country and needed help. Juan is seen and heard offering copious helpful tips on how to do just that, and how to get away with it.

This story isn't over, and Fox isn't the only network telling the truth about this, even though they often are.

Evan
Well, actually FOX has also reported that the attorney who gave all the helpful advice including suggesting that they smuggle the girls through the town where his cousin is a cop reported the incident to his cousin and was then put in contact with a US task force on human smuggling. (See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,553423,00.html)

Evan
09-22-2009, 04:32 PM
Yes, I read that brief report from Fox. But there is only a claim that Vera made any legitimate effort to report this. No paperwork was filed with police. Like I said, this isn't over.

Evan

YardleyLabs
09-22-2009, 07:11 PM
Yes, I read that brief report from Fox. But there is only a claim that Vera made any legitimate effort to report this. No paperwork was filed with police. Like I said, this isn't over.

Evan
As I read the story, the reporters confirmed the information with the police: "National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling."

Gerry Clinchy
09-22-2009, 07:45 PM
As I read the story, the reporters confirmed the information with the police: "National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling."

I am sure that there are some sincere people involved with ACORN. Such people would be attracted to an organization that purports to be for helping "the little people". And it would also not be the first time that an organization that started out idealistically later became corrupt.

I'm still sort of amazed that the people in those ACORN offices believed that someone wanting to start such an illegal business would actually go blabbing about it to anyone. And why would the ACORN people not just tell those people that they could not aid and abet them in an illegal enterprise? I could understand if all of the ACORN office people had then gone to report to the police to set up some kind of a "sting".

dnf777
09-22-2009, 07:49 PM
I am sure that there are some sincere people involved with ACORN. Such people would be attracted to an organization that purports to be for helping "the little people". And it would also not be the first time that an organization that started out idealistically later became corrupt.

Just like the Taliban. They started out to protect villagers from ruthless warlords that popped up after the Soviet withdrawl left Afghanistan in anarchy. They actually sounded noble in their original roles, but power quickly corrupted.