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cotts135
09-15-2009, 08:22 AM
I think that we can all agree that things as they stand now are not good. A war in Afghanistan that is going badly, rising unemployment, ballooning deficit etc.The list goes on. An article by Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone magazine( I can already see the conservatives in this forum eyes rolling) brings out a point of view that I think is greatly overlooked.



" After all, the reason the winger crowd canít find a way to be coherently angry right now is because this country has no healthy avenues for genuine populist outrage. It never has. The setup always goes the other way: when the excesses of business interests and their political proteges in Washington leave the regular guy broke and screwed, the response is always for the lower and middle classes to split down the middle and find reasons to get pissed off not at their greedy bosses but at each other. Thatís why even people like [Glenn] Beckís audience, who Iíd wager are mostly lower-income people, canít imagine themselves protesting against the Wall Street barons who in actuality are the ones who fucked them over. . . .

Actual rich people canít ever be the target. Itís a classic peasant mentality: going into fits of groveling and bowing whenever the masterís carriage rides by, then fuming against the Turks in Crimea or the Jews in the Pale or whoever after spending fifteen hard hours in the fields. You know youíre a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your shit. Whatever the master does, youíre on board. When you get frisky, he sticks a big cross in the middle of your village, and you spend the rest of your life praying to it with big googly eyes. Or he puts out newspapers full of innuendo about this or that faraway group and you immediately salute and rush off to join the hate squad. A good peasant is loyal, simpleminded, and full of misdirected anger. And thatís what weíve got now, a lot of misdirected anger searching around for a non-target to mis-punish . . . canít be mad at AIG, canít be mad at Citi or Goldman Sachs. The real villains have to be the anti-AIG protesters! After all, those people earned those bonuses! If ever there was a textbook case of peasant thinking, itís struggling middle-class Americans burned up in defense of taxpayer-funded bonuses to millionaires. Itís really weird stuff."

Now I am sure some of this quote is going to piss some of guys off, but the point of the article and this quote is that we might be blaming the wrong people and if we continue to stay divided there really might not be to much hope in the future to correct it.

Gerry Clinchy
09-15-2009, 10:08 AM
Our outrage might better be directed at the legislators who never had to meet a budget or a payroll :-)

Have you ever noticed how so many legislators start out from modest means and then retire from government service as millionaires ... even though they tell us that that they have sacrificed for public service the higher compensation they could have made in the private sector?

cotts135
09-15-2009, 11:27 AM
Our outrage might better be directed at the legislators who never had to meet a budget or a payroll :-)

Have you ever noticed how so many legislators start out from modest means and then retire from government service as millionaires ... even though they tell us that that they have sacrificed for public service the higher compensation they could have made in the private sector?
Agree with you 100% there. The money and jobs they find after they sacrificed their time for public service come from same corporate lobbyists that they so willingly pledged their undying loyalty to.

dnf777
09-15-2009, 12:14 PM
Words for the ages....

I was hoping things would change, but why, after 6000 years of recorded history would we expect them to?

thanks for the interesting post

TXduckdog
09-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Cotts......good looking pup, btw.

I agree and disagree with the first paragraph. There was nowhere to vent their rage...until now...and it ain't going to go away. Elitist politicians who don't acurately represent their constituencies but rather their own self serving agendas are now on notice.

Actually, don't see how Wall Street baron screwed over the little guy...they just took advantage of oppurtunities their wealth brought them. It is truly the politicians who have screwed them over.

Gerry Clinchy
09-15-2009, 02:35 PM
The money and jobs they find after they sacrificed their time for public service come from same corporate lobbyists that they so willingly pledged their undying loyalty to.

They don't even have to wait till they leave public "service". Joe Biden is one example. Supposedly he started from modest means. He's already a millionaire, while still in government "service". Am sure there are others, but Joe has the highest profile right now; and his humble beginnings were mentioned in the campaign.

Steve
09-15-2009, 05:26 PM
" The setup always goes the other way: when the excesses of business interests and their political proteges in Washington leave the regular guy broke and screwed,

Now I am sure some of this quote is going to piss some of guys off

I don't get pissed off at stupid people, which this writer clearly is. There is no such thing as excesses of business interests. There is doing business and then there is cheating, defrauding, etc. The government is now in the business of picking winners and losers, so let's get mad at government, not business people.

No matter what the government does, some people are going to cheat. The answer is not to try to legislate every business action, but to go after those who do and warn the public to be vigilant. Caveat Emptor.

dnf777
09-15-2009, 05:55 PM
They don't even have to wait till they leave public "service". Joe Biden is one example. Supposedly he started from modest means. He's already a millionaire, while still in government "service". Am sure there are others, but Joe has the highest profile right now; and his humble beginnings were mentioned in the campaign.

two words: Dick Cheney

TXduckdog
09-16-2009, 10:56 AM
DNF.....Dick Cheney has corporate experience from way back. He has served on corporate boards for years. When he retired and took the Halliburton job, there was never any intention of re-entering politics.

Talk about someone who benefits before leaving office, although at the time she wasn't even "in" office.....Hillary Clinton.....something about cattle futures and an insider deal?

Gerry Clinchy
09-16-2009, 12:06 PM
DNF.....Dick Cheney has corporate experience from way back. He has served on corporate boards for years. When he retired and took the Halliburton job, there was never any intention of re-entering politics.

Talk about someone who benefits before leaving office, although at the time she wasn't even "in" office.....Hillary Clinton.....something about cattle futures and an insider deal?

Neither of those two seem to quite fit the profile of modest roots and having only a political career. I thought Cheney was in private sector prior to politics; and Hillary's family (as I recall) was not exactly of modest means.

Some of our politicians served briefly as private attorneys. Arlen Specter was a DA in Philadelphia. Remember him running for Mayor as well. Now he's been in DC for 36 years. Don't recall whether he came from "modest" means.

Not sure McCain had accumulated a lot of wealth until he married his second wife, who had personal wealth from her family's business.

dnf777
09-16-2009, 12:14 PM
Neither of those two seem to quite fit the profile of modest roots and having only a political career. I thought Cheney was in private sector prior to politics; and Hillary's family (as I recall) was not exactly of modest means.

Some of our politicians served briefly as private attorneys. Arlen Specter was a DA in Philadelphia. Remember him running for Mayor as well. Now he's been in DC for 36 years. Don't recall whether he came from "modest" means.

Not sure McCain had accumulated a lot of wealth until he married his second wife, who had personal wealth from her family's business.

Cheney has bounced between private sector and politics several times...so whichever way you deem as "wrong"....he's got it.

Uncle Bill
09-16-2009, 12:28 PM
Cheney has bounced between private sector and politics several times...so whichever way you deem as "wrong"....he's got it.


Spoken like a true bigot. Your one-way view is quite obvious.

When it comes to "going with the clothes on your back and leaving a multi-millionaire", it's hard to beat Sodak's Tom Dashole.

And if you think it's JUST the money, our Democrat Senator...Tim Johnson... puts that claim to shame. Even in his demented state, and his election-via-pity, he is so power consumed he was looking forward to the corrupt Senator Dodd to step down from his banking committee chair position, so he would assume that spot.

UB

gman0046
09-16-2009, 12:42 PM
dnf777, your ignorant post about Dick Chaney shows just how much you know, he has corporate experience. Can you please tell us what Obamas experience is other then a community organizer before becoming the Messiah? He never ran anything his whole life. What makes him qualified to be President of this great country?

dnf777
09-16-2009, 12:43 PM
Spoken like a true bigot. Your one-way view is quite obvious.

When it comes to "going with the clothes on your back and leaving a multi-millionaire", it's hard to beat Sodak's Tom Dashole.

And if you think it's JUST the money, our Democrat Senator...Tim Johnson... puts that claim to shame. Even in his demented state, and his election-via-pity, he is so power consumed he was looking forward to the corrupt Senator Dodd to step down from his banking committee chair position, so he would assume that spot.

UB

There's a new one! Bigot. I'll add that to my list of names I've been called by compassionate conservatives. Not as good as "asshat" but that was someone else at the sending and receiving end. And why should we expect any better out of elected officials when retriever enthusiasts resort to such name calling of one another?

water off my back regards,
dave

gman0046
09-16-2009, 12:47 PM
dnf777, your ignorance has truly astounded the posters on this Forum I can assure you.

dnf777
09-16-2009, 12:50 PM
dnf777, your ignorant post about Dick Chaney shows just how much you know, he has corporate experience. Can you please tell us what Obamas experience is other then a community organizer before becoming the Messiah? He never ran anything his whole life. What makes him qualified to be President of this great country?

You must be mistaking me for Obama's spokesperson. Ask him if you're so interested. I never made such claims.

BTW, did I imply he did NOT have corporate experience when I said "bounced between private sector and politics"?

I love being told that I'm ignorant of Dick Cheney, when you can't even spell his name correctly! :razz::razz::razz:

Oops, maybe you're talking about a man really named Dick Chaney, that I've never heard of! Maybe I am the ignorant one??!!

Sorry, I hate to be a spelling police, but when you call someone ignorant about a topic, it's helps to be accurate yourself. Besides, I don't know if that was a typo, or if you just don't know how to spell his name.

Have a nice day

Buzz
09-16-2009, 01:24 PM
dnf777, your ignorance has truly astounded the posters on this Forum I can assure you.

I'm astounded alright. But it's not by his ignorance, it's by his ability to remain civil.;)

gman0046
09-16-2009, 01:29 PM
dnf777, sorry I spelled Cheney's name wrong. I am still waiting for you to tell us about Obamas qualifications. You won't answer the question. Why is that? Could it be he's never run anything?

Buzz
09-16-2009, 02:22 PM
dnf777, sorry I spelled Cheney's name wrong. I am still waiting for you to tell us about Obamas qualifications. You won't answer the question. Why is that? Could it be he's never run anything?

So long as he got at least one more vote then your guy, it doesn't really matter what you or anyone else think of his qualifications.

Uncle Bill
09-16-2009, 03:10 PM
So long as he got at least one more vote then your guy, it doesn't really matter what you or anyone else think of his qualifications.

How proud you must be to know the intellect of your messiahs followers. Ever see the political cartoon about the framers wondering among themselves of putting something in the constitution for the eventual selection of a total idiot for President.

Nice to see you are including yourself among that erudite crowd of voters...always important to be among the majority. I realize it's hard for your ilk to determine the difference between genius and idiocy. But no less authority than Einstein recognized the difference by explaining that idiocy has no limits.

Must be juicy being the big fish in that pond, eh Buzz?

UB

Gerry Clinchy
09-16-2009, 04:14 PM
So long as he got at least one more vote then your guy, it doesn't really matter what you or anyone else think of his qualifications.

Not at all true ... no matter who won or when. That kind of mindset won't help us hold our representatives accountable.

Hey, guys, you're all going off the deep end here ... all of you are capable of far better debate than your recent exchanges would indicate.

dnf777
09-16-2009, 06:04 PM
dnf777, sorry I spelled Cheney's name wrong. I am still waiting for you to tell us about Obamas qualifications. You won't answer the question. Why is that? Could it be he's never run anything?

I'm not the spell-checker police, lord knows I'd have a life sentence...but when someone calls me ignorant of a subject they misspell...well don't you see the irony?

Again, you must mistake me for Obama's spokesman, which I am not. I do not feel compelled to defend him on his qualifications. There is much I disagree with him upon.

Just an observation here: It seems its only the extreme right positioned folks here who have resorted to name calling and insulting fellow listers. (ignorant, asshat, jerk, bigot...) Why is that? As Gerry pointed out, as have others, that is no way to carry on a discussion. To me, it was a debate tactic that worked reasonably well up until the 3rd or 4th grade, where we learned that's not the way to treat one another. (or certainly no way to solve differences)

As my sign-off "water off my back regards" indicates, I really don't give a hoot what someone types of me, but it makes me not want to waste my time trying to have a civil discourse with someone who must resort to name-calling to keep their ego inflated.

I agree with Gerry...(on this point, anyway!) ;)

Bucket of cold water regards,
Dave

road kill
09-16-2009, 06:31 PM
I'm not the spell-checker police, lord knows I'd have a life sentence...but when someone calls me ignorant of a subject they misspell...well don't you see the irony?

Again, you must mistake me for Obama's spokesman, which I am not. I do not feel compelled to defend him on his qualifications. There is much I disagree with him upon.

Just an observation here: It seems its only the extreme right positioned folks here who have resorted to name calling and insulting fellow listers. (ignorant, asshat, jerk, bigot...) Why is that? As Gerry pointed out, as have others, that is no way to carry on a discussion. To me, it was a debate tactic that worked reasonably well up until the 3rd or 4th grade, where we learned that's not the way to treat one another. (or certainly no way to solve differences)

As my sign-off "water off my back regards" indicates, I really don't give a hoot what someone types of me, but it makes me not want to waste my time trying to have a civil discourse with someone who must resort to name-calling to keep their ego inflated.

I agree with Gerry...(on this point, anyway!) ;)

Bucket of cold water regards,
Dave

That statement is incorrect.

And you know it!!

"Racist, extremist, zealot, oh, and BLOW HARD?"
Any of those ring a bell?

There is plenty of name calling and inuendo to go around!!

right wing extremist regards,
(yes, I beleive in God and own weapons!!)


stan b

dnf777
09-16-2009, 09:03 PM
That statement is incorrect.

And you know it!!

"Racist, extremist, zealot, oh, and BLOW HARD?"
Any of those ring a bell?

There is plenty of name calling and inuendo to go around!!

right wing extremist regards,
(yes, I beleive in God and own weapons!!)


stan b

Hey, I believe in God, own weapons, AND have an NRA sticker on my truck. Does that make me a right wing extremist too? :cool:

Racist is not nice. Extremist and zealot are not necessarily bad. Blow hard could be good or bad.....:rolleyes:

Boudin on my mind regards,
dave

M&K's Retrievers
09-16-2009, 09:42 PM
two words: Dick Cheney

Don't talk about Dead Eye Dick. He made his before he went to DC.

Bruce MacPherson
09-16-2009, 09:49 PM
Hey, I believe in God, own weapons, AND have an NRA sticker on my truck. Does that make me a right wing extremist too? :cool:
dave

Absolutely, and welcome to the club. :)

dnf777
09-16-2009, 10:15 PM
Absolutely, and welcome to the club. :)

Was it W.C. Fields that said, "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member"??

Ah, what the hell...as long as the beer's cold!

road kill
09-17-2009, 07:42 AM
Hey, I believe in God, own weapons, AND have an NRA sticker on my truck. Does that make me a right wing extremist too? :cool:

Racist is not nice. Extremist and zealot are not necessarily bad. Blow hard could be good or bad.....:rolleyes:

Boudin on my mind regards,
dave

I have been called immature by some here as well.

Problem is "immature" has a definition and I have no argument against that, dnf.;-)

Sooooo.....I will ride my H-D to Tomahawk WI today for the fall colorama and all you mature folks will have to carry on without me!!

The fall colorama in northern WI will be 3 days of the 3 B's.
(Bikes, Beer & Babes) + immature behavior!!:shock:
I wonder if the secular progressives even know that this part of America exists??


Peace!

stan b

dnf777
09-17-2009, 10:00 AM
I wonder if the secular progressives even know that this part of America exists??stan b

Substitute "bongs" for "bikes", and you're living the liberal mantra!

Peace back at ya, and have a safe, and wonderfully "immature" trip!

blind ambition
09-17-2009, 05:04 PM
Was it W.C. Fields that said, "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member"??

Ah, what the hell...as long as the beer's cold!

I think it was Marx, (you know, Harpo's brother ) at one of Joe McCarthy's Senate Hearings (UN-American Activities???) when asked "are you now or have you ever been a Secular Progressive?"