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Roger Perry
10-02-2009, 08:40 AM
Judge orders release of Cheney FBI interview

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090523-cheney-hmed-2p.hmedium.jpg





WASHINGTON - A federal judge ruled Thursday that the FBI must publicly reveal much of its interview with former Vice President Dick Cheneyhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33122004/ns/politics-more_politics/#) during the investigation into who leaked the identity of a CIA operative.
The FBI interviewed Cheney in June 2004 as it was investigating the leak of Valerie Plame's identity after her husband publicly criticized the Bush administration. Both the Bush and Obama administrations said they wanted to keep the interview confidential because future presidents and vice presidents may not cooperate with criminal investigations if they know what they say could become public.
But U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan ruled there was no justification to withhold the entire 67 pages of records documenting the interview since the Plame leak investigation has concluded. He said that limited parts could be withheld to protect national security or personal privacy.

subroc
10-02-2009, 08:51 AM
The finest VP in my lifetime

Roger Perry
10-02-2009, 10:49 AM
The finest VP in my lifetime

Let me guess, you also think Bush was the greatest president in your lifetime also.:rolleyes:

subroc
10-02-2009, 11:07 AM
not hardly, that honor is reserved for President Ronald Wilson Reagan, the 40th President of the United States

Roger Perry
10-02-2009, 11:10 AM
not hardly, that honor is reserved for President Ronald Wilson Reagan, the 40th President of the United States

Personally I liked Richard Nixon

subroc
10-02-2009, 11:22 AM
Personally I liked Richard Nixon


Me too. The republican president that ended the Vietnam War that the democrats started, changed their mind about, and called for an end of, and feel no responsibility for.

I expect you liked President Richard Milhous Nixon, the 37th President of the United States as much as I liked carter.

Roger Perry
10-02-2009, 02:57 PM
Me too. The republican president that ended the Vietnam War that the democrats started, changed their mind about, and called for an end of, and feel no responsibility for.

I expect you liked President Richard Milhous Nixon, the 37th President of the United States as much as I liked carter.

Some of Nixon's accomplishments were:

Some of his most acclaimed achievements came in his quest for world stability. During visits in 1972 to Beijing and Moscow, he reduced tensions with China and the U.S.S.R. His summit meetings with Russian leader Leonid I. Brezhnev produced a treaty to limit strategic nuclear weapons. In January 1973, he announced an accord with North Viet Nam to end American involvement in Indochina. In 1974, his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, negotiated disengagement agreements between Israel and its opponents, Egypt and Syria.

I wish we could have someone like him back in office without the scandals.

subroc
10-02-2009, 03:09 PM
I am in shock. I did't think you had the capacity to find anything done by anyone that wasn't part of the extreme left of any benefit at all.

Cody Covey
10-02-2009, 04:57 PM
Hey we don't have lefties on this board....strictly independants!

YardleyLabs
10-02-2009, 05:36 PM
Me too. The republican president that ended the Vietnam War that the democrats started, changed their mind about, and called for an end of, and feel no responsibility for.

I expect you liked President Richard Milhous Nixon, the 37th President of the United States as much as I liked carter.
While Dem's were certainly responsible for the massive escalation in Vietnam, and for the mistakes and judgments that killed tens of thousands of our own sons and hundreds of thousands of civilians, the honor of starting that war actually rests with Eisenhower.

Eisenhower rejected the French/UN brokered settlement following Dien Bien Phu that called for elections to unify North and South Vietnam, propped up a Catholic government that was not supported by the people, and introduced US military advisers and weapons before turning the whole mess over to Kennedy (who still should have been smart enough to walk away).

Bruce MacPherson
10-02-2009, 05:38 PM
Judge orders release of Cheney FBI interview

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090523-cheney-hmed-2p.hmedium.jpg





WASHINGTON - A federal judge ruled Thursday that the FBI must publicly reveal much of its interview with former Vice President Dick Cheneyhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33122004/ns/politics-more_politics/#) during the investigation into who leaked the identity of a CIA operative.
The FBI interviewed Cheney in June 2004 as it was investigating the leak of Valerie Plame's identity after her husband publicly criticized the Bush administration. Both the Bush and Obama administrations said they wanted to keep the interview confidential because future presidents and vice presidents may not cooperate with criminal investigations if they know what they say could become public.
But U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan ruled there was no justification to withhold the entire 67 pages of records documenting the interview since the Plame leak investigation has concluded. He said that limited parts could be withheld to protect national security or personal privacy.

Since we know who leaked what is the purpose? My guess is that for obfuscation, secrecy and the unbridled taking of power by the administrative branch this administration is going to make the former one look like pikers.

road kill
10-02-2009, 05:58 PM
While Dem's were certainly responsible for the massive escalation in Vietnam, and for the mistakes and judgments that killed tens of thousands of our own sons and hundreds of thousands of civilians, the honor of starting that war actually rests with Eisenhower.

Eisenhower rejected the French/UN brokered settlement following Dien Bien Phu that called for elections to unify North and South Vietnam, propped up a Catholic government that was not supported by the people, and introduced US military advisers and weapons before turning the whole mess over to Kennedy (who still should have been smart enough to walk away).

Mr. Yardley, weren't the first US troops sent to Viet Nam in 1950 by President Truman (a Democrat)??

Just wantin' the facts to be straight, I know you are a stickler for that!!:D

subroc
10-02-2009, 06:02 PM
This release will give nothing new. The left will try to come up with a couple of "got yas'" that will have no substance. They will try to make hay anyway to take the focus from their failing congress and the ineffective narcissistic president.

YardleyLabs
10-02-2009, 07:12 PM
Mr. Yardley, weren't the first US troops sent to Viet Nam in 1950 by President Truman (a Democrat)??

Just wantin' the facts to be straight, I know you are a stickler for that!!:D
The conflict in Vietnam is basically split between the pre-1954 efforts which were directed at helping France to preserve its colonial ownership of Vietnam, and the post 1954 period when France agreed to surrender all claims on Vietnam. The Battle of Dien Bien Phu was the final effort by France to preserve its imperial position. Following its defeat, France entered into negotiations resulting in the Geneva Accords which temporarily partitioned Vietnam into two sectors. Under the terms of the agreement, elections in 1956 would select the government to lead a unified country. The US (Eisenhower) did not sign the agreement, which was signed by France, Vietnam, England, and Canada, among others. It did ackowledge the agreement and stated its agreement that the country would be united.

However, following French withdrawal, and with the deadline for elections approaching, the US threw its support, both covertly and openly behind the transitional government in the south. In 1955, Eisenhower committed US forces to train the South Vietnamese government. This act, on November 1, 1955, is generally seen as the beginning of the Vietnam War as is the date following which the US dead were listed on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.

road kill
10-02-2009, 08:38 PM
The conflict in Vietnam is basically split between the pre-1954 efforts which were directed at helping France to preserve its colonial ownership of Vietnam, and the post 1954 period when France agreed to surrender all claims on Vietnam. The Battle of Dien Bien Phu was the final effort by France to preserve its imperial position. Following its defeat, France entered into negotiations resulting in the Geneva Accords which temporarily partitioned Vietnam into two sectors. Under the terms of the agreement, elections in 1956 would select the government to lead a unified country. The US (Eisenhower) did not sign the agreement, which was signed by France, Vietnam, England, and Canada, among others. It did ackowledge the agreement and stated its agreement that the country would be united.

However, following French withdrawal, and with the deadline for elections approaching, the US threw its support, both covertly and openly behind the transitional government in the south. In 1955, Eisenhower committed US forces to train the South Vietnamese government. This act, on November 1, 1955, is generally seen as the beginning of the Vietnam War as is the date following which the US dead were listed on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.

Yeah, yeah, but my question is this:
Didn't Harry Truman send the first US troops to Viet Nam in 1950??

BTW--Rhetorical question.
(that means I already know the answer, and so does Mr. Yardley)

YardleyLabs
10-02-2009, 09:07 PM
Yeah, yeah, but my question is this:
Didn't Harry Truman send the first US troops to Viet Nam in 1950??

BTW--Rhetorical question.
(that means I already know the answer, and so does Mr. Yardley)
How is that relevant to what President started our involvement in what became the Vietnam War. We sent military ships to Japan in the 19th century. Does that mean that we started World War II and that the bombing of Pearl Harbor was simply a response? What Truman did was actually done as part of the Korean War and was strictly limited to support for the French efforts to retain control of a colony. The decision to undermine the Geneva Accord and prevent elections from being held in Vietnam was a decision made by President Eisenhower because of his belief that any election would give power over all of Vietnam to the government in the the north. and that Indochina and the rest of Asia might then fall to Communism. This was not a universal opinion and was opposed by our closest allies (France, England, Canada), all of whom had signed the Geneva Accord. Eisenhower laid the foundation for the Vietnam War. However, it took Kennedy and Johnson to make the commitments that turned a stupid decision into a disastrous one. And with each commitment made, both Kennedy and Johnson relied on military commanders who said that if we only did a little bit more, we could win n short order. Maybe it is time for us to learn and admit that there is no way to impose a new form of government on another country without becoming involved in an expensive and uncertain quagmire. We may still elect to do that. But we should only do it when we have no choice, and never because we want to prove we have cojones.

Bob Gutermuth
10-02-2009, 09:25 PM
Its a cinch that the current occupant of the White House has no cojones, he proves it every day.

road kill
10-02-2009, 09:51 PM
How is that relevant to what President started our involvement in what became the Vietnam War. We sent military ships to Japan in the 19th century. Does that mean that we started World War II and that the bombing of Pearl Harbor was simply a response? What Truman did was actually done as part of the Korean War and was strictly limited to support for the French efforts to retain control of a colony. The decision to undermine the Geneva Accord and prevent elections from being held in Vietnam was a decision made by President Eisenhower because of his belief that any election would give power over all of Vietnam to the government in the the north. and that Indochina and the rest of Asia might then fall to Communism. This was not a universal opinion and was opposed by our closest allies (France, England, Canada), all of whom had signed the Geneva Accord. Eisenhower laid the foundation for the Vietnam War. However, it took Kennedy and Johnson to make the commitments that turned a stupid decision into a disastrous one. And with each commitment made, both Kennedy and Johnson relied on military commanders who said that if we only did a little bit more, we could win n short order. Maybe it is time for us to learn and admit that there is no way to impose a new form of government on another country without becoming involved in an expensive and uncertain quagmire. We may still elect to do that. But we should only do it when we have no choice, and never because we want to prove we have cojones.

Here is how it is relevant:

Your facts are incorrect in your sanctomonious effort to discredit a Republican for being the one to get the USA involved in Viet Nam.
That is a falsehood.
Harry S. Truman, a DEMOCRAT got us involved in the 10,000 day war.
You know that is the truth.
To say anything else is disingenuous on your part.

You are not the sole posseser of the truth.
Just because you type multi paragraphs doesn't mean you are correct.

Anyone can look it up and see the facts.

In fact, why don't you show us some evidence that Eisenhower sent the first US troops to Viet Nam?
And I will show my evidence it was Truman!!:D

Your move.

Bruce MacPherson
10-02-2009, 10:57 PM
How is that relevant to what President started our involvement in what became the Vietnam War. We sent military ships to Japan in the 19th century. Does that mean that we started World War II and that the bombing of Pearl Harbor was simply a response? What Truman did was actually done as part of the Korean War and was strictly limited to support for the French efforts to retain control of a colony. The decision to undermine the Geneva Accord and prevent elections from being held in Vietnam was a decision made by President Eisenhower because of his belief that any election would give power over all of Vietnam to the government in the the north. and that Indochina and the rest of Asia might then fall to Communism. This was not a universal opinion and was opposed by our closest allies (France, England, Canada), all of whom had signed the Geneva Accord. Eisenhower laid the foundation for the Vietnam War. However, it took Kennedy and Johnson to make the commitments that turned a stupid decision into a disastrous one. And with each commitment made, both Kennedy and Johnson relied on military commanders who said that if we only did a little bit more, we could win n short order. Maybe it is time for us to learn and admit that there is no way to impose a new form of government on another country without becoming involved in an expensive and uncertain quagmire. We may still elect to do that. But we should only do it when we have no choice, and never because we want to prove we have cojones.

In what situation would we have no choice? Which war was engaged in for the sole purpose of proving we have cojones? Never mind we all know which one you believe we engaged in for that purpose.

Roger Perry
10-03-2009, 09:54 AM
Mr. Yardley, weren't the first US troops sent to Viet Nam in 1950 by President Truman (a Democrat)??

Just wantin' the facts to be straight, I know you are a stickler for that!!:D


. If one could think about direct combat engagement then it would be November 1, 1955 -- The U.S. redesignates MAAG, Indochina, as MAAG, Vietnam to specify its new direct combat advisory role with the South Vietnamese Army. The U.S. essentially took over the advisory role from the French, who were leaving Vietnam after their defeat at Diem Bien Phu in 1954. The Department of Defense views this date as the earliest qualifying date for inclusion on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. In fact this allows US military personnel to use live weapon in Vietnam aka 'to fight'!


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_the_Vietnam_War_start_and_end

YardleyLabs
10-03-2009, 10:09 AM
In what situation would we have no choice? Which war was engaged in for the sole purpose of proving we have cojones? Never mind we all know which one you believe we engaged in for that purpose.
I believe we had no choice but to get involved in WWII. To have failed to do so would have destroyed our country. We had no particular reason to become involved in Vietnam and in Iraq the second time. Korea and Afghanistan are harder questions. In both there was a clear reason for becoming involved in a limited engagement. With both we then faced the issue of how far to take it. In Korea that meant moving from a war to defend South Korea to a war against China and ended in stalemate. In Afghanistan we are now deciding how far we are prepared to go and I suspect that the "right" answer might require a much bigger war than the American population is prepared to support.

Others wars along the way were much more limited in their objectives and, right or wrong, never escalated to efforts to impose a fundamentally different government on another country. This includes Grenada, Panama, Bosnia, Kosuvo, and the first Gulf War among others.

And yes, I do believe that the primary reason for invading Iraq was to set an example to prove that it was not worth it for countries or groups to engage the US in asymetric warfare because we would respond overwhelmingly and destroy our enemy. Instead, we showed just how vulnerable we were to such attacks and just how limited we were in being able to impose our will on another country.

YardleyLabs
10-03-2009, 10:14 AM
Here is how it is relevant:

Your facts are incorrect in your sanctomonious effort to discredit a Republican for being the one to get the USA involved in Viet Nam.
That is a falsehood.
Harry S. Truman, a DEMOCRAT got us involved in the 10,000 day war.
You know that is the truth.
To say anything else is disingenuous on your part.

You are not the sole posseser of the truth.
Just because you type multi paragraphs doesn't mean you are correct.

Anyone can look it up and see the facts.

In fact, why don't you show us some evidence that Eisenhower sent the first US troops to Viet Nam?
And I will show my evidence it was Truman!!:D

Your move.

You should try reading my post. I believe I am very specific with respect to both Truman and Eisenhower. And, as I noted, I believe (and most historians seem to agree) that the American involvement in the Vietnam War began with the US rejection of the Geneva Accord and the US commitment of American soldiers to the defense of the South Vietnamese government in 1955.

road kill
10-03-2009, 10:16 AM
. If one could think about direct combat engagement then it would be November 1, 1955 -- The U.S. redesignates MAAG, Indochina, as MAAG, Vietnam to specify its new direct combat advisory role with the South Vietnamese Army. The U.S. essentially took over the advisory role from the French, who were leaving Vietnam after their defeat at Diem Bien Phu in 1954. The Department of Defense views this date as the earliest qualifying date for inclusion on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. In fact this allows US military personnel to use live weapon in Vietnam aka 'to fight'!


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_the_Vietnam_War_start_and_end

If one could think of when the USA got involved in Viet Nam by the direction of President Harry Truman (Democrat).....it would be 1950.

FACT!!

SPIN baby, SPIN!!

road kill
10-03-2009, 10:21 AM
You should try reading my post. I believe I am very specific with respect to both Truman and Eisenhower. And, as I noted, I believe (and most historians seem to agree) that the American involvement in the Vietnam War began with the US rejection of the Geneva Accord and the US commitment of American soldiers to the defense of the South Vietnamese government in 1955.

This is not about what you beleive, the facts are....US troops were first sent to Viet Nam in 1950 by direction of Harry Truman (Democrat).

In an earlier post you stated that it was Eisenhower that got us involved, and you noted he was a Republican.
You said:
"While Dem's were certainly responsible for the massive escalation in Vietnam, and for the mistakes and judgments that killed tens of thousands of our own sons and hundreds of thousands of civilians, the honor of starting that war actually rests with Eisenhower. "



I am just setting the record straight, sorry if the facts are an inconvenience.
I know you are used to just bloviating until the opposition gives up.

You ever notice how every now and then you run into a guy that won't lay down for you???

I'm that guy!!

I will stand by the facts, write as many paragraphs as you wish, they won't change.
If no troops were there, then none get killed!!

Roger Perry
10-03-2009, 10:30 AM
If one could think of when the USA got involved in Viet Nam by the direction of President Harry Truman (Democrat).....it would be 1950.

FACT!!

SPIN baby, SPIN!!
Most American wars have obvious starting points or precipitating causes: the Battles of Lexington and Concord in 1775, the capture of Fort Sumter in 1861, the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, and the North Korean invasion of South Korea in June 1950, for example. But there was no fixed beginning for the U.S. war in Vietnam. The United States entered that war incrementally, in a series of steps between 1950 and 1965. In May 1950, President Harry S. Truman authorized a modest program of economic and military aid to the French, who were fighting to retain control of their Indochina colony, including Laos and Cambodia as well as Vietnam. When the Vietnamese Nationalist (and Communist-led) Vietminh army defeated French forces at Dienbienphu in 1954, the French were compelled to accede to the creation of a Communist Vietnam north of the 17th parallel while leaving a non-Communist entity south of that line. The United States refused to accept the arrangement. The administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower undertook instead to build a nation from the spurious political entity that was South Vietnam by fabricating a government there, taking over control from the French, dispatching military advisers to train a South Vietnamese army, and unleashing the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to conduct psychological warfare against the North.






What I found on Truman was that he authorized a modest program of economic and military aid to the FRENCH. It did not say he sent troops to Viet Nam. The United States entered the war to prevent a communist takeover of South Vietnam as part of their wider strategy of containment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containment). Military advisors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_advisor) arrived beginning in 1950.

http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/vietnam/causes.htm

Show me your version of when and where we sent troops into viet nam. And please provide some references like I just did.

subroc
10-03-2009, 04:10 PM
Kennedy started the war. Up until his escalation, the force was made up of advisors numbering several hundred. Kennedy increased that number to thousands.

YardleyLabs
10-03-2009, 08:09 PM
If one could think of when the USA got involved in Viet Nam by the direction of President Harry Truman (Democrat).....it would be 1950.

FACT!!

SPIN baby, SPIN!!
Fact: Truman authorized $15 million in military aid to the French in 1950 to assist them in their efforts to regain control of their colonial dominion over Vietnam.

Fact: When Eisenhower became President, he greatly expanded aid to the French to the extent that by 1954, the US was providing 80% of all of France's munitions and equipment with aid totaling $3 billion.

Fact: In 1954 the French threw in the towel following a humiliating defeat at Dien Bien Phu. Negotiations began involving France, the US, England, Canada, representatives of the North Vietnamese, and others. This resulted in the Geneva Accord under which France gave up all claims on its former territory. During an interim period, the country was partitioned with the French supported government controling the south and Ho Chi Minh's government controlling the north. Elections were set for 1956 to elect a government that would then control the entire country. Little question existed in anyone's mind that the north would win the election. All countries involved signed the Geneva Accord with one exception -- the US. The Eisenhower administration acknowledged the Accord and committed its support for a reunified Vietnam. However, it refused to sign the agreement. As the French wthdrew, the US began providing military assistance directly to the Bao Dai/Diem government in the south, representing the first time that the US provided direct support to one of the indigenous parties to the Vietnamese dispute as distinct from providing aid to the French.

Fact: In November 1955, Eisenhower sent a force of less than 1000 advisers to support the South Vietnamese in their determination to reject the elections required by the Geneva Accord. While Eisenhower avoided committing more resources to the impending war effort the direction of US policy had been set.

Based on this, I believe that my assertion that the US involvement in the Vietnam War began under Eisenhower. However, you are obviously free to believe whatever you want. I'm assumng that you will not be returning to school again, so you don't need to worry about what grade the teacher might assign your answer.

road kill
10-04-2009, 07:27 AM
Fact: Truman authorized $15 million in military aid to the French in 1950 to assist them in their efforts to regain control of their colonial dominion over Vietnam.

Fact: When Eisenhower became President, he greatly expanded aid to the French to the extent that by 1954, the US was providing 80% of all of France's munitions and equipment with aid totaling $3 billion.

Fact: In 1954 the French threw in the towel following a humiliating defeat at Dien Bien Phu. Negotiations began involving France, the US, England, Canada, representatives of the North Vietnamese, and others. This resulted in the Geneva Accord under which France gave up all claims on its former territory. During an interim period, the country was partitioned with the French supported government controling the south and Ho Chi Minh's government controlling the north. Elections were set for 1956 to elect a government that would then control the entire country. Little question existed in anyone's mind that the north would win the election. All countries involved signed the Geneva Accord with one exception -- the US. The Eisenhower administration acknowledged the Accord and committed its support for a reunified Vietnam. However, it refused to sign the agreement. As the French wthdrew, the US began providing military assistance directly to the Bao Dai/Diem government in the south, representing the first time that the US provided direct support to one of the indigenous parties to the Vietnamese dispute as distinct from providing aid to the French.

Fact: In November 1955, Eisenhower sent a force of less than 1000 advisers to support the South Vietnamese in their determination to reject the elections required by the Geneva Accord. While Eisenhower avoided committing more resources to the impending war effort the direction of US policy had been set.

Based on this, I believe that my assertion that the US involvement in the Vietnam War began under Eisenhower. However, you are obviously free to believe whatever you want. I'm assumng that you will not be returning to school again, so you don't need to worry about what grade the teacher might assign your answer.
You are WRONG!!

FACT; Harry S. Truman sent the first US troops to Viet Nam in 1950.
You KNOW that, and stubbornly will not admit it.

Your credibility has been exposed!!

Aren't you the one that called another poster a "blowhard?"

"In January 1950, the communist nations, led by the People's Republic of China (PRC), recognized the Viet Minh's Democratic Republic of Vietnam as the government of Vietnam. Non-Communist nations recognized the French-backed State of Vietnam in Saigon led by former Emperor Bao Dai the following month.[29] The outbreak of the Korean War in June 1950 convinced many Washington policymakers that the war in Indochina was an example of communist expansionism directed by the Kremlin.[30]

PRC military advisors began assisting the Viet Minh in July 1950.[31] PRC weapons, expertise, and laborers transformed the Viet Minh from a guerrilla force into a regular army.[32] In September, the U.S. created a Military Assistance and Advisory Group (MAAG) to screen French requests for aid, advise on strategy, and train Vietnamese soldiers."

"Indochina
For more details on this topic, see First Indochina War.
United States' involvement in Indochina widened during the Truman administration. On V-J Day 1945, Vietnamese Communist leader Ho Chi Minh declared independence from France, but the U.S. announced its support of restoring French power. In 1950, Ho again declared Vietnamese independence, which was recognized by Communist China and the Soviet Union. Ho controlled a remote territory along the Chinese border, while France controlled the remainder. Truman's "containment policy" called for opposition to Communist expansion, and led the U.S. to continue to recognize French rule, support the French client government, and increase aid to Vietnam. However, a basic dispute emerged: the Americans wanted a strong and independent Vietnam, while the French cared little about containing China but instead wanted to suppress local nationalism and integrate Indochina into the French Union."

Maybe you should go back to school, oh wait, you just did!!


Harry S. Truman (Democrat) git the USA involved in Viet Nam.
Troops through the MAAG program.
Money & resources through the Indochina Communist Containment Program.

I'm here to help!!:D

YardleyLabs
10-04-2009, 07:43 AM
You are WRONG!!

FACT; Harry S. Truman sent the first US troops to Viet Nam in 1950.
You KNOW that, and stubbornly will not admit it.

Your credibility has been exposed!!

Aren't you the one that called another poster a "blowhard?"

"In January 1950, the communist nations, led by the People's Republic of China (PRC), recognized the Viet Minh's Democratic Republic of Vietnam as the government of Vietnam. Non-Communist nations recognized the French-backed State of Vietnam in Saigon led by former Emperor Bao Dai the following month.[29] The outbreak of the Korean War in June 1950 convinced many Washington policymakers that the war in Indochina was an example of communist expansionism directed by the Kremlin.[30]

PRC military advisors began assisting the Viet Minh in July 1950.[31] PRC weapons, expertise, and laborers transformed the Viet Minh from a guerrilla force into a regular army.[32] In September, the U.S. created a Military Assistance and Advisory Group (MAAG) to screen French requests for aid, advise on strategy, and train Vietnamese soldiers."

"Indochina
For more details on this topic, see First Indochina War.
United States' involvement in Indochina widened during the Truman administration. On V-J Day 1945, Vietnamese Communist leader Ho Chi Minh declared independence from France, but the U.S. announced its support of restoring French power. In 1950, Ho again declared Vietnamese independence, which was recognized by Communist China and the Soviet Union. Ho controlled a remote territory along the Chinese border, while France controlled the remainder. Truman's "containment policy" called for opposition to Communist expansion, and led the U.S. to continue to recognize French rule, support the French client government, and increase aid to Vietnam. However, a basic dispute emerged: the Americans wanted a strong and independent Vietnam, while the French cared little about containing China but instead wanted to suppress local nationalism and integrate Indochina into the French Union."

Maybe you should go back to school, oh wait, you just did!!


Harry S. Truman (Democrat) git the USA involved in Viet Nam.
Troops through the MAAG program.
Money & resources through the Indochina Communist Containment Program.

I'm here to help!!:D

Note the timeline:

"In September 1950, US President Harry Truman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Truman) sent the Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) to Vietnam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam) to assist the French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) in the First Indochina war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_war). The President claimed they were not sent as combat troops, but to supervise the use of $10 million worth of US military equipment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_equipment) to support the French in their effort to fight the Viet Minh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Minh) forces.


"The French Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Army) however, was resistant to take U.S. advice, and would not allow the Vietnamese army to be trained to use the new equipment, because it went against French policy. They were supposed to not only defeat enemy forces but to solidify themselves as a colonial power, and they could not do this with a Vietnamese Army. French commanders were so reluctant to accept advice that would weaken their time-honored colonial role that they got in the way of the various attempts by the MAAG to observe where the equipment was being sent and how it was being used. Eventually the French decided to cooperate, but at that point it was too late.

"In 1954 the commanding general of French forces in Indochina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indochina), General Henri Navarre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Navarre), allowed the United States to send liaison officers to Vietnamese forces. But it was too late, because of the siege and fall of Dien Bien Phu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu) in the spring. As stated by the Geneva Accords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Accords), France was forced to surrender the northern half of Vietnam and to withdraw from South Vietnam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Vietnam) by April 1956.


"On 1955 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955)-02-12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_12) at a conference in Washington, D.C., between officials of the U.S. State Department (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_State) and the French Minister of Overseas Affairs, it was agreed that all U.S. aid would be funneled directly to South Vietnam and that all major military responsibilities would be transferred from the French to the MAAG under the command of Lieutenant General John O'Daniel. A problem arose however, because the French Expeditionary Force had to be departed from South Vietnam in April 1956 as directed by the Accords. To fill the void of lost French soldiers, the MAAG mission was increased to 740 men by the end of June."


Also, from my response to your first post about Truman's actions:


Quote:
Originally Posted by road kill http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=507482#post507482)
Yeah, yeah, but my question is this:
Didn't Harry Truman send the first US troops to Viet Nam in 1950??

BTW--Rhetorical question.
(that means I already know the answer, and so does Mr. Yardley)

And I replied:

"How is that relevant to what President started our involvement in what became the Vietnam War. We sent military ships to Japan in the 19th century. Does that mean that we started World War II and that the bombing of Pearl Harbor was simply a response? What Truman did was actually done as part of the Korean War and was strictly limited to support for the French efforts to retain control of a colony. The decision to undermine the Geneva Accord and prevent elections from being held in Vietnam was a decision made by President Eisenhower because of his belief that any election would give power over all of Vietnam to the government in the the north. and that Indochina and the rest of Asia might then fall to Communism."

I'm beginning to think that you are not only fact challenged, but may have a little trouble reading. Where did I say that no troops were sent by Truman? In case you don't know, Eisenhower became President in January 1953.

road kill
10-04-2009, 07:53 AM
Note the timeline:

"In September 1950, US President Harry Truman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Truman) sent the Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) to Vietnam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam) to assist the French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) in the First Indochina war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_war). The President claimed they were not sent as combat troops, but to supervise the use of $10 million worth of US military equipment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_equipment) to support the French in their effort to fight the Viet Minh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Minh) forces.


"The French Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Army) however, was resistant to take U.S. advice, and would not allow the Vietnamese army to be trained to use the new equipment, because it went against French policy. They were supposed to not only defeat enemy forces but to solidify themselves as a colonial power, and they could not do this with a Vietnamese Army. French commanders were so reluctant to accept advice that would weaken their time-honored colonial role that they got in the way of the various attempts by the MAAG to observe where the equipment was being sent and how it was being used. Eventually the French decided to cooperate, but at that point it was too late.

"In 1954 the commanding general of French forces in Indochina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indochina), General Henri Navarre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Navarre), allowed the United States to send liaison officers to Vietnamese forces. But it was too late, because of the siege and fall of Dien Bien Phu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu) in the spring. As stated by the Geneva Accords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Accords), France was forced to surrender the northern half of Vietnam and to withdraw from South Vietnam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Vietnam) by April 1956.


"On 1955 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955)-02-12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_12) at a conference in Washington, D.C., between officials of the U.S. State Department (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_State) and the French Minister of Overseas Affairs, it was agreed that all U.S. aid would be funneled directly to South Vietnam and that all major military responsibilities would be transferred from the French to the MAAG under the command of Lieutenant General John O'Daniel. A problem arose however, because the French Expeditionary Force had to be departed from South Vietnam in April 1956 as directed by the Accords. To fill the void of lost French soldiers, the MAAG mission was increased to 740 men by the end of June."


Also, from my response to your first post about Truman's actions:


Quote:
Originally Posted by road kill http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=507482#post507482)
Yeah, yeah, but my question is this:
Didn't Harry Truman send the first US troops to Viet Nam in 1950??

BTW--Rhetorical question.
(that means I already know the answer, and so does Mr. Yardley)

And I replied:

"How is that relevant to what President started our involvement in what became the Vietnam War. We sent military ships to Japan in the 19th century. Does that mean that we started World War II and that the bombing of Pearl Harbor was simply a response? What Truman did was actually done as part of the Korean War and was strictly limited to support for the French efforts to retain control of a colony. The decision to undermine the Geneva Accord and prevent elections from being held in Vietnam was a decision made by President Eisenhower because of his belief that any election would give power over all of Vietnam to the government in the the north. and that Indochina and the rest of Asia might then fall to Communism."

I'm beginning to think that you are not only fact challenged, but may have a little trouble reading. Where did I say that no troops were sent by Truman? In case you don't know, Eisenhower became President in January 1953.

"I'm beginning to think"

That's encouraging!!

You KNOW when the first troops went to Viet Nam and won't admit it.

"In September 1950, US President Harry Truman sent the Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) to Vietnam"


It's who you are, it's what you do!!

Now, why don't you call someone a "blow hard" and issue some personal insults about my intelligence?

Is that all you got?

YardleyLabs
10-04-2009, 08:11 AM
"I'm beginning to think"

That's encouraging!!
You should try it. The first time can be really exciting.



You KNOW when the first troops went to Viet Nam and won't admit it.

Once again, you obviously didn't or can't read my original response. I never questioned the fact that Truman sent MAAG troops in 1950. I questioned the relevance of that action. You never replied.


...
Now, why don't you call someone a "blow hard" and issue some personal insults about my intelligence?

Is that all you got?
Given that you seem to have trouble posting anything that doesn't contain a personal insult, don't get too sensitive about my questioning your willingness or ability to read (not your intelligence). And if you really want to have fun, do a search on the phrase "blow hard" to find out how many times i have used it and the context vs how many times you have used it.