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ducknwork
10-09-2009, 11:58 AM
This term is thrown around a lot on political forums and in the general public. Then, lefties accuse everyone else of not knowing the true meaning and saying it's not true. Let's get this settled.

Post concrete reasons/examples why or why not this term applies to our current government.
________
Kitchen Measures (http://kitchenmeasures.com/)

road kill
10-09-2009, 12:07 PM
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
Karl Marx


nuff said.........

YardleyLabs
10-09-2009, 12:17 PM
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
Karl Marx


nuff said.........
I can't believe I bothered to read the other three volumes of Das Kapital when I could have stopped with one sentence....

When the notion of private property and return on capital is eliminated, and we begin the process of eliminating democracy in favor of the dictatorship of the proletariat as represented by a single political party, we are moving more in the direction of Marxism. As long as 1% of the population is earning 25% of all income, the bottom 40% of the population is earning 10% of income, and return on capital is almost as high or higher than return on labor, we are not even close.

road kill
10-09-2009, 12:19 PM
I can't believe I bothered to read the other three volumes of Das Kapital when I could have stopped with one sentence....
When the notion of private property and return on capital is eliminated, and we begin the process of eliminating democracy in favor of the dictatorship of the proletariat as represented by a single political party, we are moving more in the direction of Marxism. As long as 1% of the population is earning 25% of all income, the bottom 40% of the population is earning 10% of income, and return on capital is almost as high or higher than return on labor, we are not even close.
I am not surprised at all.


Redistribute that wealth, eh Mr. Yardley??

YardleyLabs
10-09-2009, 12:33 PM
I can't believe I bothered to read the other three volumes of Das Kapital when I could have stopped with one sentence....

When the notion of private property and return on capital is eliminated, and we begin the process of eliminating democracy in favor of the dictatorship of the proletariat as represented by a single political party, we are moving more in the direction of Marxism. As long as 1% of the population is earning 25% of all income, the bottom 40% of the population is earning 10% of income, and return on capital is almost as high or higher than return on labor, we are not even close.I am not surprised at all.


Redistribute that wealth, eh Mr. Yardley??

And why doesn't your comment surprise me? It's hard to study economics and politics at a graduate level if you won't read about alternative ideologies. In fact, I've also read the Communist Manifesto and the first time I read your quote was at the age of 14 on the wall of my hotel in Moscow. If reading Das Kapital makes me a Communist, what does reading the WSJ or the works of Milton Friedman make me?

road kill
10-09-2009, 12:39 PM
And why doesn't your comment surprise me? It's hard to study economics and politics at a graduate level if you won't read about alternative ideologies. In fact, I've also read the Communist Manifesto and the first time I read your quote was at the age of 14 on the wall of my hotel in Moscow. If reading Das Kapital makes me a Communist, what does reading the WSJ or the works of Milton Friedman make me?
What you read does not define who & what you are.
What you say and do (post) speaks volumes.

Let me say, "I disagree with what you say, but I will (and have) defend your right to say it."

It appears that you and the other hand would prefer my thoughts and opinions be squelched, ain't happenin' my friend.

BTW--That is a nice lookin dog on your avatar!!:D

JDogger
10-09-2009, 12:39 PM
This term is thrown around a lot on political forums and in the general public. Then, lefties accuse everyone else of not knowing the true meaning and saying it's not true. Let's get this settled.

Post concrete reasons/examples why or why not this term applies to our current government.

You could google the term, (and socialist and facist too) and spend the rest of the day getting an understanding of the terms. You would then have the basis for making your own decision on how these terms apply or not to our current government, instead of relying on the opinions of others on a doggy forum.

JD

Steve
10-09-2009, 12:45 PM
We do not have a Marxist government. We do have a number of people who believe in the basics tenets of Marxism, i.e. workers struggling against evil capitalists and that it is OK for government to address these issues.

ducknwork
10-09-2009, 02:04 PM
You could google the term, (and socialist and facist too) and spend the rest of the day getting an understanding of the terms. You would then have the basis for making your own decision on how these terms apply or not to our current government, instead of relying on the opinions of others on a doggy forum.

JD

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

More understanding is not really what I was after. Seems to me like it would make for a good discussion since there are always accusations flying both ways regarding the three terms. Perhaps then, the accusations would be founded in some sort of fact, or at a minimum, we could perhaps gain a greater understanding of where each of us is coming from. Or perhaps, someone would be proven wrong and won't incorrectly (or ignorantly) use or defend the terms in the future...


PS Don't be a jackass and imply that I am stupid. I don't need any of you to explain anything to me to help form an opinion on anything. Post something constructive, or just continue to defend your messiah and attack all those opposed.

Something else I just thought of- if there is nobody providing any evidence for why they call the administration socialist, fascist, or marxist, then perhaps they shouldn't be using the term. Maybe it's just trendy. On the other hand, it could be true that the govt is showing some socialist, fascist, or marxist tendencies. If they are and the left cannot debunk those myths (or so-called myths) then maybe they need to admit that there is some truth to the right wing 'propaganda' and stop calling right wingers liars and kooks as a knee jerk reaction...But maybe that is trendy as well.
________
Sick from prilosec (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/prilosec/)

YardleyLabs
10-09-2009, 02:13 PM
What you read does not define who & what you are.
What you say and do (post) speaks volumes.

Let me say, "I disagree with what you say, but I will (and have) defend your right to say it."

It appears that you and the other hand would prefer my thoughts and opinions be squelched, ain't happenin' my friend.

BTW--That is a nice lookin dog on your avatar!!:D
What makes you think that?

The pup is my dog Yardley Labs Ms T-Maxx (Misty). She did nicely in Derby last year and would have been fun to run this year but she was barefoot and pregnant. Hopefully I will have her running in Q's next spring. She has her figure back now, so I may also try to run a couple of hunt tests if I can juggle my schedule.

road kill
10-09-2009, 03:47 PM
What makes you think that?

The pup is my dog Yardley Labs Ms T-Maxx (Misty). She did nicely in Derby last year and would have been fun to run this year but she was barefoot and pregnant. Hopefully I will have her running in Q's next spring. She has her figure back now, so I may also try to run a couple of hunt tests if I can juggle my schedule.
Is that dog related to "Max's Surprise?"

YardleyLabs
10-09-2009, 04:18 PM
Is that dog related to "Max's Surprise?"
FC AFC High Tech CEO x Deep Run Morning Star (http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/Asp/viewpedigreecolor.asp?DogNo=85667)

TXduckdog
10-10-2009, 09:40 AM
I can't believe I bothered to read the other three volumes of Das Kapital when I could have stopped with one sentence....

When the notion of private property and return on capital is eliminated, and we begin the process of eliminating democracy in favor of the dictatorship of the proletariat as represented by a single political party, we are moving more in the direction of Marxism. As long as 1% of the population is earning 25% of all income, the bottom 40% of the population is earning 10% of income, and return on capital is almost as high or higher than return on labor, we are not even close.



You actually read the entire Das Kapital set.....what BS college course did you take that required that? I know you didn't just decide on your own to read that....well...trash.

TXduckdog
10-10-2009, 09:41 AM
Fascism is a far more appropriate term for this administration.

YardleyLabs
10-10-2009, 10:08 AM
You actually read the entire Das Kapital set.....what BS college course did you take that required that? I know you didn't just decide on your own to read that....well...trash.
I actually read it as a freshman in college (it was not an assignment) and I will admit that I was paying a lot less attention in volumes 2 & 3 than I was in volume 1. I was fascinated with political history and it happens to be a pretty important book from an historical perspective. The copy I had was published in 1967, one century following the original publication of volume 1. Marx (and Engels, who actually finished the books) was writing in a continuum with other 18th and 19th century authors who were trying to sort out what was happening during the industrial revolution. He followed and even drew on some of the work of Adam Smith (who authored The Wealth of Nations in the 18th century), but also reflected other 19th century German philosophers.

road kill
10-10-2009, 10:35 AM
I actually read it as a freshman in college (it was not an assignment) and I will admit that I was paying a lot less attention in volumes 2 & 3 than I was in volume 1. I was fascinated with political history and it happens to be a pretty important book from an historical perspective. The copy I had was published in 1967, one century following the original publication of volume 1. Marx (and Engels, who actually finished the books) was writing in a continuum with other 18th and 19th century authors who were trying to sort out what was happening during the industrial revolution. He followed and even drew on some of the work of Adam Smith (who authored The Wealth of Nations in the 18th century), but also reflected other 19th century German philosophers.


Did you ever read "The Human Drift" by King Gillette??

The renowned "Utopian Socialist."

Which probably is also an accurate description of who is in power now, since most of them are city folk.