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Steve Hester
10-30-2009, 08:09 AM
This is just one example of the "true" costs of Obama's Socialism:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/default.aspx?feat=1341914

And the ObamaCare program isn't going to cost us anything....yeah right!:rolleyes:

Evan
10-30-2009, 08:32 AM
This is just one example of the "true" costs of Obama's Socialism:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/default.aspx?feat=1341914

And the ObamaCare program isn't going to cost us anything....yeah right!:rolleyes:Wonder if he's got a new deal on that bridge in...where is it...Brooklyn?:rolleyes:

Evan

JDogger
10-30-2009, 08:54 AM
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46973

Don't be redundent

Hoosier
10-30-2009, 09:11 AM
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46973

Don't be redundent

Run all your posts by JDog, and get his approval before posting. Apparently he has now appointed himself POTUS editor and chief.

YardleyLabs
10-30-2009, 09:25 AM
It's amazing. None of the stimulus programs worked, but they contributed about half of the 3.5% economic growth in the economy during the last quarter.

txbadger
10-30-2009, 09:33 AM
"It's amazing. None of the stimulus programs worked, but they contributed about half of the 3.5% economic growth in the economy during the last quarter."

So borrowing from the future to put a band-aid on the present is a good thing?? Taking 24k from the taxpayer to give 4.5k to the auto folks is "smart"?

road kill
10-30-2009, 09:35 AM
It's amazing. None of the stimulus programs worked, but they contributed about half of the 3.5% economic growth in the economy during the last quarter.

WHAT??:confused:

Evan
10-30-2009, 10:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc

Evan

Raymond Little
10-30-2009, 10:44 AM
It's amazing. None of the stimulus programs worked, but they contributed about half of the 3.5% economic growth in the economy during the last quarter.

Come back in Jan and tell us what the growth was for the last quarter Jeff.:rolleyes: Lets see; 787 billion = 30,000 jobs, 3 billion for C/C = $24,500 govt payment per car, and 1 trillion to cover the mysterious 40 million uninsured?:rolleyes: The American taxpayers are in need of a "REACH AROUND"!

Nuts and Bolts Regards:mad:

Steve Hester
10-30-2009, 11:23 AM
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46973

Don't be redundent

Didn't see it, but it really doesn't matter........It's definitely worthy of repeating how the American taxpayer is being totally screwed, not saved, as the Messiah reports.:rolleyes:

zeus3925
10-30-2009, 11:38 AM
Come back in Jan and tell us what the growth was for the last quarter Jeff.:rolleyes: Lets see; 787 billion = 30,000 jobs, 3 billion for C/C = $24,500 govt payment per car, and 1 trillion to cover the mysterious 40 million uninsured?:rolleyes: The American taxpayers are in need of a "REACH AROUND"!

Nuts and Bolts Regards:mad:

c/c =$ 24,000 per car? I saw the math on that assertion. It was a lot of bull roar!

txbadger
10-30-2009, 11:48 AM
While the pundits are jumping up & down over a backward looking GDP they ignored the 500+k newly unemployed which is forward looking number. The jobless rate now for young blacks is now around 40%, which isn't a good thing for the nation.

K G
10-30-2009, 11:51 AM
While the pundits are jumping up & down over a backward looking GDP they ignored the 500+k newly unemployed which is forward looking number. The jobless rate now for young blacks is now around 40%, which isn't a good thing for the nation.

And even a worse thing for BHO....

They're still looking for the CHANGE they can believe in....:rolleyes:

kg

Raymond Little
10-30-2009, 12:20 PM
c/c =$ 24,000 per car? I saw the math on that assertion. It was a lot of bull roar!
Don't believe me Dude, here it is....
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-motor-vehicle-output-2009-10
;)

Buzz
10-30-2009, 12:31 PM
Don't believe me Dude, here it is....
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-motor-vehicle-output-2009-10
;)


I guess we have to believe it then...:rolleyes:

Raymond Little
10-30-2009, 12:33 PM
I guess we have to believe it then...:rolleyes:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/10/edmundscom_cash_for_clunkers_a.html;)

K G
10-30-2009, 12:48 PM
Here's yet another point of view:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aUuHhaDx8Hr8

kg

zeus3925
10-30-2009, 02:07 PM
Don't believe me Dude, here it is....
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-motor-vehicle-output-2009-10
;)

Read your link. It has nothing to do with $24, 000 per clunker bur it does indicate a huge bump in GDP for thr third quarter which was expected.

YardleyLabs
10-30-2009, 02:46 PM
What the business insider story and the GDP figures show is that the CFC program was wildly successful in boosting car sales in Q3 far above what otherwise would have happened. In the process, the program depleted inventories of 2009 cars which were depressing the move to newer model cars. It is fully expected that sales will drop following the end of the program. The unknown is whether or not the acceleration of sales into Q3 will have beneficial effects in stimulating growth going forward. In the short term it appears to have done so given job recalls that have already happened. If the economy continues to grow at a 3.5-4% rate over the next year, I believe it will demonstrate a success of the stimulus program far beyond anything reasonably expected. If the economy fails to grow, it will indicate that the program basically failed.

Pals
10-30-2009, 02:51 PM
And todays market??? Oh wait must be all that confindence in the administration and spendulous..............................

pigs eye regards,

YardleyLabs
10-30-2009, 03:00 PM
And todays market??? Oh wait must be all that confindence in the administration and spendulous..............................

pigs eye regards,
So, if a one day decrease in the DOW indicates a lack of confidence in the administration, what does a four month increase reflect?

Pals
10-30-2009, 03:08 PM
absolutely nothing.......................take a look around and tell me how wonderful things are right now for common working folks? We rob from our children, bump up the economy on borrowed money and think we are fixing the problems?? The last 2 years have been a disaster in the making. What is going to happen with the next wave of forclosures Jeff? We have an anemic manufacturing base, massive deficits and Washington continues to spend money we don't have. You tell me how much confidence we should have in this administration? No never mind, I'll go ask one of my customers, they'll make more sense anyway.

YardleyLabs
10-30-2009, 03:48 PM
absolutely nothing.......................take a look around and tell me how wonderful things are right now for common working folks? We rob from our children, bump up the economy on borrowed money and think we are fixing the problems?? The last 2 years have been a disaster in the making. What is going to happen with the next wave of forclosures Jeff? We have an anemic manufacturing base, massive deficits and Washington continues to spend money we don't have. You tell me how much confidence we should have in this administration? No never mind, I'll go ask one of my customers, they'll make more sense anyway.
Actually, I believe that neither a four month increase in the DOW nor a one day decrease tell us anything at all about the economy. In my mind the best measure of economic performance is what happens to median (not average) incomes. By that measure, we have been in the middle of a weak to bad economy since Clinton was President. Even at its best under Bush, the benefits of economic growth went almost entirely to the wealthiest few, leaving most with little gain or even a loss of real income. Standards of living were maintained only by spending savings (primarily home equity) and going into debt.

Now there is no equity left and no credit to be had and standards of living for most Americans are in free fall. I do not believe that any administration can "fix" this situation without some pretty massive changes in our economy. Even then it will take years. I believe this problem had its greatest roots in Reagan's economic policies which encouraged companies to liquidate assets to by allowing those gains to be counted as short term profits. Things got a little better under Clinton, but he basically continued the same policies as Reagan. Under Bush, things got much worse.

I believe that this administration is trying to get us back to where we were a couple of years ago, but is not addressing the fundamental problems in our economy. Instead it is trying to loosen up consumer credit.

I believe that the last thing we need is more consumer credit. What we need are more jobs at lower and middle income levels. How to do that when US companies continue to send jobs out of the country is unclear. However, I believe one of the more crucial pieces of the puzzle will be to reduce employer responsibility for health care costs which now artificially inflate our costs of labor relative to other countries. I am disappointed that none of the health plans under consideration reduce corporate costs.

Pals
10-30-2009, 04:04 PM
Actually, I believe that neither a four month increase in the DOW nor a one day decrease tell us anything at all about the economy. In my mind the best measure of economic performance is what happens to median (not average) incomes. By that measure, we have been in the middle of a weak to bad economy since Clinton was President. Even at its best under Bush, the benefits of economic growth went almost entirely to the wealthiest few, leaving most with little gain or even a loss of real income. Standards of living were maintained only by spending savings (primarily home equity) and going into debt.

Now there is no equity left and no credit to be had and standards of living for most Americans are in free fall. I do not believe that any administration can "fix" this situation without some pretty massive changes in our economy. Even then it will take years. I believe this problem had its greatest roots in Reagan's economic policies which encouraged companies to liquidate assets to by allowing those gains to be counted as short term profits. Things got a little better under Clinton, but he basically continued the same policies as Reagan. Under Bush, things got much worse.

I believe that this administration is trying to get us back to where we were a couple of years ago, but is not addressing the fundamental problems in our economy. Instead it is trying to loosen up consumer credit.

I believe that the last thing we need is more consumer credit. What we need are more jobs at lower and middle income levels. How to do that when US companies continue to send jobs out of the country is unclear. However, I believe one of the more crucial pieces of the puzzle will be to reduce employer responsibility for health care costs which now artificially inflate our costs of labor relative to other countries. I am disappointed that none of the health plans under consideration reduce corporate costs.

You know Jeff I happen to agree with most of what you said there, especially about credit. However I am seriously opposed to all the money being thrown around on the east coast.

This current administration is NOT fixing the problems, right now the gubs are just making things worse. Freeing up credit to what end??? Jobs are gone, cities are decaying and people want to put on Rose colored glasses just because the stinkin dow bottomed out and bounced based on stimulous money??? I don't believe that the government can fix the problems we have, it is up to us to fix this mess by demanding fiscal responsiblility.