PDA

View Full Version : USN Seals Debacle



gman0046
11-26-2009, 03:08 PM
I thought I heard it all from the Obongos Administration until I heard 3 Navy Seals are up on charges for using excessive force in capturing a known Terrorist Leader.
Standby folks, they'll be plenty more absurdity coming from this group of Anti - Americans before they are through.
I wonder if anyone in the Obongo inner circle ever served. It makes me sick to my stomach seeing Obongo salute military personnel.

Pete
11-26-2009, 03:14 PM
You are not alone with your discusts about whats happening around here.
Maby our enemies look just like us,,,,just like our enemies look just like them.
what a wierd world this is becoming

Pete

TXduckdog
11-28-2009, 01:11 PM
Hey all...home for just a couple of days for T-Day. Thought I'd drop in.

The inside info I'm getting on this situation was the "fat lip" the a$$hole got was minor...but the Seals in question may have failed to report it properly or filed a false statement.

They bypassed the non-judicial punishment in order to get this situation out to the public.

Only one or two are actually charged with assault, where-as 3 or 4 are charged with filing a false statement. That aspect may be their un-doing in this overly PC environment.

Just goes to show you..."a dead man tells no tales"....may have been the better way to go in this deal.

You all take care.

Bob Gutermuth
11-28-2009, 04:58 PM
I certainly hope if we ever get Bin ladin, he is shot while trying to escape. If he is actually arrested and tried, the GD ACLU will want to treat him like an innocent defendant and give him Miranda and all the trimmings. Meanwhile they will excoriate the troops that make the arrest.

Julie R.
11-29-2009, 07:21 AM
Just goes to show you..."a dead man tells no tales"....may have been the better way to go in this deal.

You all take care.

Yes, it's a shame they didn't treat that terrorist the way these Navy Seals handled the SomaliThugs last Easter :cool:

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww15/TempJim2009/pirates.jpg

dnf777
11-29-2009, 07:25 AM
I thought I heard it all from the Obongos Administration until I heard 3 Navy Seals are up on charges for using excessive force in capturing a known Terrorist Leader.
Standby folks, they'll be plenty more absurdity coming from this group of Anti - Americans before they are through.
I wonder if anyone in the Obongo inner circle ever served. It makes me sick to my stomach seeing Obongo salute military personnel.

Yeah, we've had a run of non-serving presidents lately. Not that military service is totally necessary, but it's nice to know someone has walked a mile or two in boots before ordering troops to do so. That was one reason I have so much respect for George I, despite not agreeing with all his policies. That man "hit the silk" fighting for his country. Since him, we've had presidents who "hit the interns", "hit the bars", and now "hit the talk show circuits"....everything except honorable military service.

dnf777
11-29-2009, 07:28 AM
Yes, it's a shame they didn't treat that terrorist the way these Navy Seals handled the SomaliThugs last Easter :cool:

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww15/TempJim2009/pirates.jpg

So if you're going to blame Obama for every event that occurs in the military, including well-established UCMJ actions, then I assume you give him full credit for the capping of the pirates you allude to?

Bob Gutermuth
11-29-2009, 08:08 AM
W received an honorable discharge. The last non serving POTUS pre Osama was Bill, Draft Dodger, Clinton.

road kill
11-29-2009, 08:10 AM
Yeah, we've had a run of non-serving presidents lately. Not that military service is totally necessary, but it's nice to know someone has walked a mile or two in boots before ordering troops to do so. That was one reason I have so much respect for George I, despite not agreeing with all his policies. That man "hit the silk" fighting for his country. Since him, we've had presidents who "hit the interns", "hit the bars", and now "hit the talk show circuits"....everything except honorable military service.


Typical.....go ahead, demean service in the National Guard!!

As a Veteran you now better, shame on you!!
Anyone who served, served.
I sudder to think what you would say about the US Coast Guard.:D


BTW--President Carter served.....nuff said.

dnf777
11-29-2009, 09:02 AM
Typical.....go ahead, demean service in the National Guard!!

As a Veteran you now better, shame on you!!
Anyone who served, served.
I sudder to think what you would say about the US Coast Guard.:D


BTW--President Carter served.....nuff said.

Come on, you know me better than that. Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, USCG, and the Merchant Marines....all honorable service. One caveat though, you have to SHOW UP for duty...not skip out to help campaigns and skip physicals which include the famous "pee-tests"! Donning a flight suit and riding the jump-seat to a political photo-op 30 years later doesn't count, either.

Yes, Carter was near the top of his class at Annapolis, and served as an engineer in the Submariner fleet. Gerald Ford, also.

Hey, as a veteran of the Army (Ain't Ready for Marines Yet) I don't poke fun at any of the brother services! ;-)

road kill
11-29-2009, 09:08 AM
Come on, you know me better than that. Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, USCG, and the Merchant Marines....all honorable service. One caveat though, you have to SHOW UP for duty...not skip out to help campaigns and skip physicals which include the famous "pee-tests"! Donning a flight suit and riding the jump-seat to a political photo-op 30 years later doesn't count, either.

Yes, Carter was near the top of his class at Annapolis, and served as an engineer in the Submariner fleet. Gerald Ford, also.

Hey, as a veteran of the Army (Ain't Ready for Marines Yet) I don't poke fun at any of the brother services! ;-)


Oh....you are referencing the Dan Rather thing, I see now!!:rolleyes:

Eric Johnson
11-29-2009, 10:58 AM
dnf777-

You're referring to the popular culture rather than factual information.

Ex-President Bush served honorably in the Air National Guard. In that position he pulled alerts and intercepts. When he tried to volunteer to go to VN, he had insufficient hours in the aircraft.

He moved to Montgomery and things get sort of hazy. Folks say they saw him at Dannelly Field but the records are not found. Given that this was during a massive phase down of the military post-VN and 30+ years ago, some laxity in record-keeping is understandable. Who knew they'd need those records to argue a point on an Internet (not invented by Gore yet) discussion. IOW, the fact that records can't be found is an indication of nothing other than that the records can't be found. It says nothing about whether or not they ever existed.

Ex-President Bush separated from the Air National Guard with an Honorable Discharge after serving about 5.5 years of a six year committment. However, in the 1972-73 era, there were all manner of "early outs" and encourgements to leaving early as the force draw-down took place. Qualified in a soon-to-be obsolete aircraft and with so few months left on his committment that transition training wasn't warranted, I can see why he was released. To the Air Force he was just one more person they didn't need to find a place for.

However, during his service, he had 300+ hours flying an aircraft that would scare the bejeebers out of most of us. In fact, most of his hours were spent flying with white ones on the rails. He took a different route than you or I but don't ever belittle his service.

Eric

Clay Rogers
11-29-2009, 11:14 AM
dnf777-

You're referring to the popular culture rather than factual information.

Ex-President Bush served honorably in the Air National Guard. In that position he pulled alerts and intercepts. When he tried to volunteer to go to VN, he had insufficient hours in the aircraft.

He moved to Montgomery and things get sort of hazy. Folks say they saw him at Dannelly Field but the records are not found. Given that this was during a massive phase down of the military post-VN and 30+ years ago, some laxity in record-keeping is understandable. Who knew they'd need those records to argue a point on an Internet (not invented by Gore yet) discussion. IOW, the fact that records can't be found is an indication of nothing other than that the records can't be found. It says nothing about whether or not they ever existed.

Ex-President Bush separated from the Air National Guard with an Honorable Discharge after serving about 5.5 years of a six year committment. However, in the 1972-73 era, there were all manner of "early outs" and encourgements to leaving early as the force draw-down took place. Qualified in a soon-to-be obsolete aircraft and with so few months left on his committment that transition training wasn't warranted, I can see why he was released. To the Air Force he was just one more person they didn't need to find a place for.

However, during his service, he had 300+ hours flying an aircraft that would scare the bejeebers out of most of us. In fact, most of his hours were spent flying with white ones on the rails. He took a different route than you or I but don't ever belittle his service.

Eric

Excellant post.

dnf777
11-29-2009, 11:50 AM
dnf777-

You're referring to the popular culture rather than factual information.

Ex-President Bush served honorably in the Air National Guard. In that position he pulled alerts and intercepts. When he tried to volunteer to go to VN, he had insufficient hours in the aircraft.

He moved to Montgomery and things get sort of hazy. Folks say they saw him at Dannelly Field but the records are not found. Given that this was during a massive phase down of the military post-VN and 30+ years ago, some laxity in record-keeping is understandable. Who knew they'd need those records to argue a point on an Internet (not invented by Gore yet) discussion. IOW, the fact that records can't be found is an indication of nothing other than that the records can't be found. It says nothing about whether or not they ever existed.

Ex-President Bush separated from the Air National Guard with an Honorable Discharge after serving about 5.5 years of a six year committment. However, in the 1972-73 era, there were all manner of "early outs" and encourgements to leaving early as the force draw-down took place. Qualified in a soon-to-be obsolete aircraft and with so few months left on his committment that transition training wasn't warranted, I can see why he was released. To the Air Force he was just one more person they didn't need to find a place for.

However, during his service, he had 300+ hours flying an aircraft that would scare the bejeebers out of most of us. In fact, most of his hours were spent flying with white ones on the rails. He took a different route than you or I but don't ever belittle his service.

Eric

I appreciate you comments, however the military tends not to be "lax" when it comes to personnel reporting issues. The whole issue of how he could leap-frog over ~2000 men waiting for a pilot slot in the ANG in the first place has never been satisfactorily answered. Also, when I served as a physician (very much in demand and difficult to quickly replace, just like pilots) I had to fight and fight to get my 201 when my time was up. In fact, they clung to me for almost 6 months delaying my discharge. An early out for a qualified pilot during war time is pretty suspicious. Not many people I know from that era (none, to be exact) who served were given early outs, unless they were medically discharged for acute lead poisoning or were a senator's son. There ARE records of him failing to report for physicals BTW. I never have heard that refuted nor explained.

Eric Johnson
11-29-2009, 01:00 PM
Ex-President Bush was discharged after the deadline for all fighting in Viet Nam was past. In the year or so prior, the Air Force was indeed in a draw-down mode as I recall. All efforts were expended at LineBacker II and if you were a pilot and were not involved in LBII, you took a back seat. I can't say more than that but, pilots of other than bombers who couldn't go to Viet Nam were a dime a dozen. B-52 pilots were being called up from the reserves. Other pilots were being let go in droves all through 1972-73.

So...you'd like me to believe that 30+ years ago that ex-President Bush was released from National Guard duty to advance .... what? He applied for discharge and it was granted on the basis of an accepted application to Yale. Are you suggesting that although the records state very clearly "Honorable Discharge", it was somehow something else and someone knew 30+ years in advance to put the fix it? Be serious!

As a practical matter, you served in the Army, not the Air Force. As such, you'd not have a clue about Air Force personnel policy and programs. The Army, especially the Medical Service, is known for being less efficient than the Air Force<g>. I served in a joint billet at the AF Data Systems Design Center. The stories I could tell about Army Medical Service mis-management. One I particularly like is about the time that I removed the Army Chief of Staff's outpatient record from under a hat in the front hall of the Walter Reed OOM at noon.

Eric

Clay Rogers
11-29-2009, 01:02 PM
I appreciate you comments, however the military tends not to be "lax" when it comes to personnel reporting issues. The whole issue of how he could leap-frog over ~2000 men waiting for a pilot slot in the ANG in the first place has never been satisfactorily answered. Also, when I served as a physician (very much in demand and difficult to quickly replace, just like pilots) I had to fight and fight to get my 201 when my time was up. In fact, they clung to me for almost 6 months delaying my discharge. An early out for a qualified pilot during war time is pretty suspicious. Not many people I know from that era (none, to be exact) who served were given early outs, unless they were medically discharged for acute lead poisoning or were a senator's son. There ARE records of him failing to report for physicals BTW. I never have heard that refuted nor explained.

I received an early out in 1993 when clinton was elected prez. My MOS was only at 27%, never had any behavior problems, made E-5 in less than 3 years and was E-6 promotable when I got out. So I can believe it. Also, his dad probably had alot to do with it. But at least he didn't burn the American Flag in England and then become president.

road kill
11-29-2009, 01:05 PM
I appreciate you comments, however the military tends not to be "lax" when it comes to personnel reporting issues. The whole issue of how he could leap-frog over ~2000 men waiting for a pilot slot in the ANG in the first place has never been satisfactorily answered. Also, when I served as a physician (very much in demand and difficult to quickly replace, just like pilots) I had to fight and fight to get my 201 when my time was up. In fact, they clung to me for almost 6 months delaying my discharge. An early out for a qualified pilot during war time is pretty suspicious. Not many people I know from that era (none, to be exact) who served were given early outs, unless they were medically discharged for acute lead poisoning or were a senator's son. There ARE records of him failing to report for physicals BTW. I never have heard that refuted nor explained.

Like I said, the whole Dan Rather thing.:cool:

dnf777
11-29-2009, 01:14 PM
As a practical matter, you served in the Army, not the Air Force. As such, you'd not have a clue about Air Force personnel policy and programs. The Army, especially the Medical Service, is known for being less efficient than the Air Force<g>.
Eric

There seems to be a real epidemic of people thinking they know so much about others! When I was attached to the 108th ADA as part of JTF-SWA (the "J" stands for "joint"....as in Army, Air Force, and Marines, and Navy) we worked at the Eskan Village Air Force Hospital, so I have first hand knowledge of Air Force medical facilities. I'll be the first to agree with you on the Army Medical Service Corps being inefficient. As a medical corps officer, (not Medical Service Corps) I banged my head for years having to deal with the MSC pencil pushers.

Besides, its hard to be as efficient as the Air Force when you're working out in the desert in tents, rather than in the air-conditioned hospitals. I loved my time with the Air Force hospital.....A/C, they actually issued coffee-makers and microwaves to the officers, and even had a video-rental store set up in Eskan! Still can't figure out why I went Army and not AirForce!!

subroc
11-29-2009, 01:36 PM
Eric, you have some cogent points based on knowledge and an understanding, dnf777 on the other hand appears to be searching for a conspiracy that doesn't exixt.

dnf777
11-29-2009, 05:09 PM
Eric, you have some cogent points based on knowledge and an understanding, dnf777 on the other hand appears to be searching for a conspiracy that doesn't exixt.

Conspiracy? Are your voices telling you that? I just said I worked at an Air Force Hospital. No secret conspiracy about that!:confused:

subroc
11-29-2009, 05:28 PM
post 14.....

Pinetree
11-29-2009, 05:37 PM
I want to start by saying that I have not read all of the post for this trend. Our soldiers and sailors are the best in the world. Our leaders for the most part are the same. President Carter was a very good leader, as everything he did was best for the US and the world as he saw it. If you could only meet him you would know this. The Navy Seals are the finest defenders of peace in the world and I am sure that the present leadership of our country will not condemn them because they were doing their Job. Yes we are in tying times but we must understand how this great country was formed and follow that example. If that means that we should go to town meetings then go, if it means we should run for elected office then run and if it means we should follow the lead of our founding fathers then follow. Whatever you think this is the greatest country in the world!
GOD BLESS THE USA

subroc
11-29-2009, 05:44 PM
your stand on how great our country is, I will agree, warts and all.

But, carter may be a nice man but was a lousy president.

Pinetree
11-29-2009, 05:54 PM
Subroc
I am so very sorry that you just don't get it.

subroc
11-29-2009, 06:05 PM
I think I "get it" just fine.

Our nation is the greatest. Our military is the greatest. I am less than confident that our leadership is th e greatest. Carter was an example of a poor leader.

We may disagree, but, I believe I "get it."

dnf777
11-29-2009, 06:22 PM
post 14.....

Again, I fail to see any claims of a great conspiracy? Maybe you have a much broader definition of conspiracy than I do. Its a fact that Bush did fail to report for a flight physical, and was subsequently removed from flight status as a result, with no punitive action. It is also a fact he was commissioned into the ANG much sooner than anyone else on the waiting list, without exceptional credentials that would warrant such action. It is also a fact that his dad was an elected official at the time this occured. Those are all facts. If printing them all together constitutes a "conspiracy" in your broad definition, so be it. I'm just making some factual observations. You can draw any conclusion you like.

subroc
11-29-2009, 06:28 PM
pretty suspicious...

road kill
11-29-2009, 06:49 PM
Again, I fail to see any claims of a great conspiracy? Maybe you have a much broader definition of conspiracy than I do. Its a fact that Bush did fail to report for a flight physical, and was subsequently removed from flight status as a result, with no punitive action. It is also a fact he was commissioned into the ANG much sooner than anyone else on the waiting list, without exceptional credentials that would warrant such action. It is also a fact that his dad was an elected official at the time this occured. Those are all facts. If printing them all together constitutes a "conspiracy" in your broad definition, so be it. I'm just making some factual observations. You can draw any conclusion you like.

That Dan Rather thing again!!:cool:

subroc
11-29-2009, 08:07 PM
:D chuckling :D

dnf777 should be pointing us to the links for the forged documents any time now.

dnf777
11-29-2009, 08:12 PM
That Dan Rather thing again!!:cool:

What the heck does Dan Rather have to do with those facts? Nobody, including Bush himself, disputes those facts. Do you? Why is it so hard to admit that it looks mighty suspicious? When Obama or any other politician screws up, I have no problem calling it out....whether its a democrat or republican. It seems that your Bush has been crowned the infallible Messiah! It's not hard to admit....he was a rich boy son of a Texas oil-man politician. It should be no surprise he didn't serve as an infantryman in Vietnam!

Marvin S
11-29-2009, 08:23 PM
Not defending GW, but didn't he know how to fly a jet?


It should be no surprise he didn't serve as an infantryman in Vietnam!

Did you?

There were a lot of us, not with rich anybody's in our family, who chose to enlist during draft days to have a choice in the branch we wanted to serve. We all filled a need, as defined by the military.

dnf777
11-29-2009, 09:16 PM
Not defending GW, but didn't he know how to fly a jet?



Did you?

There were a lot of us, not with rich anybody's in our family, who chose to enlist during draft days to have a choice in the branch we wanted to serve. We all filled a need, as defined by the military.

I was a tad too young for Vietnam. Had to wait until Southern Watch/Desert Fox. Many did choose to enlist in a branch of their choice. That is not the same as getting a commission into an ANG unit with a waiting list....without having to wait. Why is it so hard to admit he used his Dad's power and influence to gain a privileged commission? He still had to have a degree and complete OBS or the Air Force equivalent, but was definitely "bumped" in front of a few hundred or thousand men like you and me.

subroc
11-29-2009, 09:31 PM
Assuming he did, and I am not granting he did, why is it necessary to denigrate his service?

I haven't seen you post a similar string against clinton and if anything he deserves derision for his stance during that time.

No need for an answer really, d and r.

BTW, I don't really care in either case. But, as a defence against the attack on President George W. Bush and his service I will readily and gladly bring up clintons lack of service as well as his distain for the military.

Bob Gutermuth
11-29-2009, 09:34 PM
He knew how to fly but didn't have enough hours in a particular type of jet.

dnf777
11-29-2009, 10:35 PM
Assuming he did, and I am not granting he did, why is it necessary to denigrate his service?

I haven't seen you post a similar string against clinton and if anything he deserves derision for his stance during that time.

No need for an answer really, d and r.

BTW, I don't really care in either case. But, as a defence against the attack on President George W. Bush and his service I will readily and gladly bring up clintons lack of service as well as his distain for the military.

Clinton did not serve. He had one deferrment for a Rhodes Scholarship. Call in denigrating if you want, I merely pointed out facts that have NOT been disputed by anyone on this list or George Bush himself.

Many did choose to enlist in a branch of their choice. That is not the same as getting a commission into an ANG unit with a waiting list....without having to wait. Why is it so hard to admit he used his Dad's power and influence to gain a privileged commission? He still had to have a degree and complete OBS or the Air Force equivalent, but was definitely "bumped" in front of a few hundred or thousand men like you and me.

Still haven't heard anyone dispute the above. Or his failing to report for a physical and being disqualified for flight duty, without any punitive action. Just the facts. Make your own conclusion. No denigration here, no attacks, just facts.

subroc
11-30-2009, 05:17 AM
Dave

Tell me what you think. These questions won't be aswered. Ever. So, to your points, he only served 5.5 years but received an honorable discharge. Those facts together to me indicate an early out of some kind. What do they indicate to you? You use the word suspicious. What about it is suspicious? In the worst case scenario, what is the man "guilty" of? In your "I hate President George W. Bush" world, what is the indictment?

Hew
11-30-2009, 06:00 AM
Clinton did not serve. He had one deferrment for a Rhodes Scholarship. Call in denigrating if you want, I merely pointed out facts that have NOT been disputed by anyone on this list or George Bush himself.

..............

Just the facts. Make your own conclusion. No denigration here, no attacks, just facts.
Your "facts" re: Clinton's avoidance of military service are wrong. Not correct. Not facts. Moreover, your one sentence glossing over of Clinton's machinations, string pulling by well-connected friends and outright lies and deception to avoid service (complete with your nonfactual "facts"), while denigrating Bush's service as an honorably discharged ANG pilot makes your statement that you go after all sides equally rather laughable.

dnf777
11-30-2009, 06:19 AM
Your "facts" re: Clinton's avoidance of military service are wrong. Not correct. Not facts. Moreover, your one sentence glossing over of Clinton's machinations, string pulling by well-connected friends and outright lies and deception to avoid service (complete with your nonfactual "facts"), while denigrating Bush's service as an honorably discharged ANG pilot makes your statement that you go after all sides equally rather laughable.

Those are the facts. You can check them anywhere. I haven't cited sources because they were in the public domain, and were never disputed.

As a Cheney boy, I'm surprised to hear you attack Clinton on a Rhodes scholarship deferrment (or whatever the official designation was). Clinton 1, Cheney 7.

So here it goes Hew....Clinton used power and influence (whatever he may have had at that age with no rich daddy) to avoid service in Vietnam. There, I admitted it. NOt so hard to admit the truth. Lets hear you give it a try now!? Guys like the veterans on this list went to war, while guys like Bush (and Clinton) took a free pass because of power and influence! Its not hard. Lets see if you can admit a truth about your Messiah.

Hew
11-30-2009, 06:37 AM
Those are the facts. You can check them anywhere. I haven't cited sources because they were in the public domain, and were never disputed.

As a Cheney boy, I'm surprised to hear you attack Clinton on a Rhodes scholarship deferrment (or whatever the official designation was). Clinton 1, Cheney 7.
Again, they're not the facts. Clinton had come home from Oxford to face his induction. Instead, with help from influential friends, he was able to secure a spot at the University of Arkansas ROTC program once he had completed basic training. He was granted a reservist deferrment while awaiting his basic training and enrollment into ROTC. Of course, he had no intention of doing so (as he later wrote the Colonel at Arkansas, he "loathed" the United States military), and as soon as he received his reservist deferrment he went back to Oxford.

But feel free to contend that Bush's service as an ANG pilot and Clinton's avoidance of service are the same.

dnf777
11-30-2009, 07:01 AM
Again, they're not the facts. Clinton had come home from Oxford to face his induction. Instead, with help from influential friends, he was able to secure a spot at the University of Arkansas ROTC program once he had completed basic training. He was granted a reservist deferrment while awaiting his basic training and enrollment into ROTC. Of course, he had no intention of doing so (as he later wrote the Colonel at Arkansas, he "loathed" the United States military), and as soon as he received his reservist deferrment he went back to Oxford.

But feel free to contend that Bush's service as an ANG pilot and Clinton's avoidance of service are the same.

Ok Hew, again, watch how EASY this is:

Clinton and Bush acted legally, but less than honorably in avoidance of his service, both using power and influence to avoid going to war.

There, I have no problem admitting that.

For a third time, can you admit the same?? Or are you going to cling to your Messiah?

road kill
11-30-2009, 08:21 AM
Ok Hew, again, watch how EASY this is:

Clinton and Bush acted legally, but less than honorably in avoidance of his service, both using power and influence to avoid going to war.

There, I have no problem admitting that.

For a third time, can you admit the same?? Or are you going to cling to your Messiah?

If I am not mistaken, President Bush recieved an "Honorable Discharge."

How would that be "less than honorable?"

Just askin........

(it's a rhetorical question, I already know the answer);-)

dnf777
11-30-2009, 08:32 AM
If I am not mistaken, President Bush recieved an "Honorable Discharge."

How would that be "less than honorable?"

Just askin........

(it's a rhetorical question, I already know the answer);-)

If that works for you, fine.
Just let me know where and how I can get my son that kind of deal so he doesn't have to serve if he chooses not to.

You served if I remember, right? What would have happened to you if you "failed to report" for duty, and skipped a physical exam? Honorable discharge?

Just askin.....
It's also rhetorical. I too, already know the answer.

have a good one,
dave

road kill
11-30-2009, 08:36 AM
If that works for you, fine.
Just let me know where and how I can get my son that kind of deal so he doesn't have to serve if he chooses not to.

You served if I remember, right? What would have happened to you if you "failed to report" for duty, and skipped a physical exam? Honorable discharge?

Just askin.....
It's also rhetorical. I too, already know the answer.

have a good one,
dave

In my service we had ships and boats.
You knew when the next movement was, it was all but tattood on your forehead.
I don't think we ever got under way where some dolt didn't"Miss a Movement."
Not a smart thing to do.

I was a small boat coxswain, my crew was tight, we didn't have those issues.
But if a guy got an Honorable, then he got it.
It didn't matter if we "HATED" him or not.
(you know, like you and RP do President Bush?)


Honorable Discharge regards!!

dnf777
11-30-2009, 08:55 AM
In my service we had ships and boats.
You knew when the next movement was, it was all but tattood on your forehead.
I don't think we ever got under way where some dolt didn't"Miss a Movement."
Not a smart thing to do.

I was a small boat coxswain, my crew was tight, we didn't have those issues.
But if a guy got an Honorable, then he got it.
It didn't matter if we "HATED" him or not.
(you know, like you and RP do President Bush?)


Honorable Discharge regards!!

I'm sure it doesn't happen very often. And I'm sure the Air Force makes duty stations and reporting orders abundantly clear, as does the Army and Navy. But you didn't answer my question. What would happen if you DID miss a duty station, or failed to report, or missed a movement? Would you skate away and be discharged honorably? Somehow, I doubt it.

and BTW, I'm too old to hate anymore. Unless it's really warranted. Hate burns too much energy, and I'm saving what energy I have for friends, dogs, family and 16oz curls. (not necessarily in that order)

Cheers my friend, maybe we oughta let this one go....

dave

subroc
11-30-2009, 09:03 AM
President George W. Bush served in the military honorably and his honorable discharge is proof of that. Any other point is without merit.

Hew
11-30-2009, 09:47 AM
Ok Hew, again, watch how EASY this is:

Clinton and Bush acted legally, but less than honorably in avoidance of his service, both using power and influence to avoid going to war.

There, I have no problem admitting that.

For a third time, can you admit the same?? Or are you going to cling to your Messiah?
Hmmm...how did our conversation turn? As I recall, we were discussing whether your "facts" about Clinton were make-believe. As it turns out, they were (SURPRISE!!!). Again, I often don't bother to intrude upon your fantasies (eg...your ad nasuem, oft-repeated canard about all those budget surpluses that that budget hawk Clinton left us with) as it's like grabbin' hold of a tar baby. But on this thread you kept telling us how factual you are and all, so I just couldn't resist. I know. I'm weak.

But I'll let you off the hook on your latest mis-speak and play along...

Did Bush use connections to get an ANG slot? Yes. Do you know what his motivations for joining the ANG instead of the Coast Guard, Army, Marines, etc? No. Was his training and accumulation of flight hours in service to his country dangerous? Yes. Was it more dangerous than flying in Viet Nam? No. Is there debate on whether he missed a physical or was supposed to be somewhere he was not towards the end of his committment? Yes. Is there debate that he received an honorable discharge. No.

Did Clinton use connections and lie through his teeth to avoid any service? Yes. Was his anti-war protesting in England dangerous or a service to his country? No. Does it take a special brand of moon-battitude to equate Bush's service with Clinton's non-service and "loathing" of the US military? Most assuredly.

Happy now?

dnf777
11-30-2009, 01:11 PM
Hmmm...how did our conversation turn? As I recall, we were discussing whether your "facts" about Clinton were make-believe. As it turns out, they were (SURPRISE!!!). Again, I often don't bother to intrude upon your fantasies (eg...your ad nasuem, oft-repeated canard about all those budget surpluses that that budget hawk Clinton left us with) as it's like grabbin' hold of a tar baby. But on this thread you kept telling us how factual you are and all, so I just couldn't resist. I know. I'm weak.

But I'll let you off the hook on your latest mis-speak and play along...

Did Bush use connections to get an ANG slot? Yes. Do you know what his motivations for joining the ANG instead of the Coast Guard, Army, Marines, etc? No. Was his training and accumulation of flight hours in service to his country dangerous? Yes. Was it more dangerous than flying in Viet Nam? No. Is there debate on whether he missed a physical or was supposed to be somewhere he was not towards the end of his committment? Yes. Is there debate that he received an honorable discharge. No.

Did Clinton use connections and lie through his teeth to avoid any service? Yes. Was his anti-war protesting in England dangerous or a service to his country? No. Does it take a special brand of moon-battitude to equate Bush's service with Clinton's non-service and "loathing" of the US military? Most assuredly.

Happy now?

Thank you. Now that wasn't that hard, was it?
He wasn't the Messiah....just a rich kid from Connecticut who became president. Likewise, Clinton was a poor kid from Arkansas who did the same.

M&K's Retrievers
11-30-2009, 06:49 PM
Oh, give me a friggin' break. "Poor kid from Arkansas" He's not so poor now with all the money he and his wife have "earned" since his term in office not to mention other "perks" at taxpayers expense.

dnf777
11-30-2009, 06:54 PM
"Likewise, Clinton was a poor kid from Arkansas who did the same."

Check your facts. Then check what I said. I have NOTHING against someone making it big and rich. Especially if they didn't start out that way.

cheers,
dave

M&K's Retrievers
11-30-2009, 06:58 PM
"Likewise, Clinton was a poor kid from Arkansas who did the same."

Check your facts. Then check what I said. I have NOTHING against someone making it big and rich. Especially if they didn't start out that way.

cheers,
dave

I believe I was referring to how they made it rich.

dnf777
12-01-2009, 03:09 PM
I believe I was referring to how they made it rich.

We can agree on that. Power corrupts. I won't vouch for what ANY politician does after he gets a taste of it!

When I think of some politicians that I've known since school days....I remember them as the kid you never loaned marbles to nickels to....because you'd never get them back. Just lots of lip service about how they WILL pay you back because you're such a great guy, etc......