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Roger Perry
12-29-2009, 07:00 PM
Anyone watch last night's program? There are a lot of unanswered questions regarding the Congressional inquiry into the 9/11 attack.

Foremost is where is what happened to the black boxes. There were supposed to be 4 of them. One volunteer fireman saw one black box taken from ground zero. A friend of his says 2 more were found. The official word is none were found. These black boxes can withstand over 2000 degrees Fahrenheit. Pieces of human bones no larger than a thumb nail were found. The boxes were bright orange and one official said there was never a problem finding the black boxes from other crashes even under 2,000 feet of water. The boxes are supposed to even emit a signal.

subroc
12-29-2009, 07:10 PM
I watched one episode. I believe it was the first one. A waste of time. Next time I think about watching that show, I will stick pins in my eyes instead. It might feel better.

dnf777
12-29-2009, 07:16 PM
I think Jesse is a man who truly cares about America. I think he also needed a little extra money to agree to such a show! I've only watched the one on 9-11 and must admit, it raises some very interesting questions. I don't necessarily believe all of them, but it did at least raise my eyebrows. One thing that is highly predictable though, is anything that casts a negative shadow on the Bush administration, will be met with character attacks, lies, and venom by 24% of the population. Another 20% will jump on the info as if it were gospel, proving Bush/Cheney the anti-Christs, while the rest of us will realize that we'll never know what happens at those levels, and just go to work or train our dogs.

Roger Perry
12-29-2009, 07:17 PM
I watched one episode. I believe it was the first one. A waste of time. Next time I think about watching that show, I will stick pins in my eyes instead. It might feel better.

I thought it was interesting. It left more questions unanswered than were answered. It was the first one I watched. If Jesse were to run for President even on an independent ticket he would get my vote.

subroc
12-29-2009, 07:49 PM
The 9/11 one is not the one I watched. As with any conspiracy theory, the goal is to leave questions.

But, I already know what happened, 19 al-Qaeda terrorists, that hate the United States because we are the United States and are not Muslim extremists, boarded 4 planes, hijacked them and committed the most heinous attack on United States soil since 7 December1941.

I have watched another show on the 9/11 conspiracy theories and the twisted convoluted way they needed to present their information to get there was beyond imagination, I believe they are 9/11 thruthers. It was a special by, I believe, Popular Mechanics, and they went through many of the popular conspiracy theories of 9/11 and presented technical information debunking many of them.

Roger, 9/11 truther, that would be a good orgaization for you to join. I believe they blame two term President George W. Bush for most, if not all, things as well.

road kill
12-29-2009, 08:03 PM
Anyone watch last night's program? There are a lot of unanswered questions regarding the Congressional inquiry into the 9/11 attack.

Foremost is where is what happened to the black boxes. There were supposed to be 4 of them. One volunteer fireman saw one black box taken from ground zero. A friend of his says 2 more were found. The official word is none were found. These black boxes can withstand over 2000 degrees Fahrenheit. Pieces of human bones no larger than a thumb nail were found. The boxes were bright orange and one official said there was never a problem finding the black boxes from other crashes even under 2,000 feet of water. The boxes are supposed to even emit a signal.


UHHHHH, hey Rog, I heard Elvis was working at a Burger King in Area 51 right next to the fake moon landing set!!:rolleyes:

K G
12-29-2009, 09:13 PM
If Jesse were to run for President even on an independent ticket he would get my vote.

That doesn't surprise me in the least....:p

kg

zeus3925
12-29-2009, 09:35 PM
I thought it was interesting. It left more questions unanswered than were answered. It was the first one I watched. If Jesse were to run for President even on an independent ticket he would get my vote.

If you lived through the Jesse era in Minnesota, you would bite your tongue on that one. He started out with a blue ribbon cabinet and as long as he let them take the point, he did well. But, he soon blew them off and started to listen to his own counsel. His ego got the best of him and soon he was attacking everyone in sight. He is notoriously thin skinned and bellows like a wounded bull if he gets the slightest criticism. His berating a private citizen on a call in radio program sent his popularity score in to a death spiral.

He is not particularly well read and I would not consider him to be a rival to Steven Hawking in intelligence.

wayne anderson
12-29-2009, 09:49 PM
Amen on your assessment of "Jesse the Body," Zeus! (No, I didn't vote for him).

dnf777
12-29-2009, 10:10 PM
But, I already know what happened, 19 al-Qaeda terrorists, that hate the United States because we are the United States and are not Muslim extremists,

Do you really think the explanation is that simple? Do you think people will kill themselves because they wake up one day and say, "gee, those people are free and are not muslim extremists, so I'm going to blow myself up."

Your explanation would assume that they therefore consider themselves Muslim extremists. You and I think they are. They probably don't. That makes your theory fall apart. We'll never eliminate terrorism in the world if we don't even study the problem in order to formulate a solution. Complex problems usually have complex roots. We can oversimplify to suit our arguments, but that won't help us solve the problem.

subroc
12-30-2009, 05:13 AM
Well Dave, give us a complex explaination.

Don't forget, insert into that complex explaination, a way to place blame on the United States, essentially making it our own fault.

BTW, fine, we won't call them Muslin extremists, wouldn’t want to injure your tender sensibilities, you can pick something to call them, just let us know what works for you.

BTW2 if they call themselves al-Qaeda, angels of god, slaves of Allah, or whatever and I call them Muslim extremists, terrorists, killers or whatever, why is their description or identity of themselves the one I must use?

dnf777
12-30-2009, 08:04 AM
Well Dave, give us a complex explaination.

Don't forget, insert into that complex explaination, a way to place blame on the United States, essentially making it our own fault.

BTW, fine, we won't call them Muslin extremists, wouldn’t want to injure your tender sensibilities, you can pick something to call them, just let us know what works for you.

BTW2 if they call themselves al-Qaeda, angels of god, slaves of Allah, or whatever and I call them Muslim extremists, terrorists, killers or whatever, why is their description or identity of themselves the one I must use?


Ya know, I NEVER implied ANY of those sentiments you ascribed to me. Your 7th-grade debate skills serve no purpose in a meaningful discussion. (no offense meant to 7th graders) Keep you're head in the sand...thankfully there's more intelligent folks on the job where it matters.

I'll be happy to call them muslim extremists. I'll even call them stinky-pants or dum-dums if that makes you feel better? It does not begin to approach a solution to the problem however.

road kill
12-30-2009, 08:35 AM
Ya know, I NEVER implied ANY of those sentiments you ascribed to me. Your 7th-grade debate skills serve no purpose in a meaningful discussion. (no offense meant to 7th graders) Keep you're head in the sand...thankfully there's more intelligent folks on the job where it matters.

I'll be happy to call them muslim extremists. I'll even call them stinky-pants or dum-dums if that makes you feel better? It does not begin to approach a solution to the problem however.


Not my issue, but it would make me happy if you would call them "TERRORISTS!"

Seems your side has issues with that!!

Thanks in advance

(Rodger, could you spell check this quick?):D

dnf777
12-30-2009, 08:58 AM
Not my issue, but it would make me happy if you would call them "TERRORISTS!"

Seems your side has issues with that!!

Thanks in advance

(Rodger, could you spell check this quick?):D

DAMN TERRORISTS!!!

I have no problem. They ARE terrorists. Ok, now did that solve the problem? Made me feel better, but didn't make one person any safer. My point, is that oversimplifying the problem will not solve anything. If somebody is sick, I don't call their disease names and expect them to feel better at that. The root of the problem must be diagnosed and solved. With terrorists, maybe that's done with bombs and laser-beams, but first, you have to know who and where to aim. More realistically, as several on both "sides" have pointed out, the real solution lies in global diplomatic pressure, financial and command disruption, and targeted military strikes when targets avail themselves. Starting an ill-focused, ill-defined all-out war, destabilizing an entire region, and hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties to net a few dozen terrorist leaders is not very efficient or effective. Or we wouldn't still have kids blowing up their shorts on airplanes, would we?

I'm frustrated now. Let me vent once more to feel better....

DAMN DIRTY TERRORISTS!!!

Aahhhhh....much better now.

Have a safe, Happy, and productive New Year! And remember, we're all on the same team.
Just having visited the WTC site reinforced that in a very profound way.

Dave

subroc
12-30-2009, 09:08 AM
Dave, in case you havn't been paying attention, I was not describing a solution. I was describing what happened.

Nice, Dave called me a 7th grader, he must be wicked smart...

road kill
12-30-2009, 09:09 AM
DAMN TERRORISTS!!!

I have no problem. They ARE terrorists. Ok, now did that solve the problem? Made me feel better, but didn't make one person any safer. My point, is that oversimplifying the problem will not solve anything. If somebody is sick, I don't call their disease names and expect them to feel better at that. The root of the problem must be diagnosed and solved. With terrorists, maybe that's done with bombs and laser-beams, but first, you have to know who and where to aim. More realistically, as several on both "sides" have pointed out, the real solution lies in global diplomatic pressure, financial and command disruption, and targeted military strikes when targets avail themselves. Starting an ill-focused, ill-defined all-out war, destabilizing an entire region, and hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties to net a few dozen terrorist leaders is not very efficient or effective. Or we wouldn't still have kids blowing up their shorts on airplanes, would we?

I'm frustrated now. Let me vent once more to feel better....

DAMN DIRTY TERRORISTS!!!

Aahhhhh....much better now.

Have a safe, Happy, and productive New Year! And remember, we're all on the same team.
Just having visited the WTC site reinforced that in a very profound way.

Dave

Thanks, I feel better.

Hey....speaking of "warm tingly feelings up my leg...." this guy brought a whole new meaning to that!!

I am deeply dissapointed no one laughed at this though;


"UHHHHH, hey Rog, I heard Elvis was working at a Burger King in Area 51 right next to the fake moon landing set!!:rolleyes:"

May well be my greatest post ever!!

Going to Pettenwell Flowage to ice fish for Walleyes in 15F weather.
How dumb am I?????

Peace!!

rk

Roger Perry
12-30-2009, 09:34 AM
Not my issue, but it would make me happy if you would call them "TERRORISTS!"

Seems your side has issues with that!!

Thanks in advance

(Rodger, could you spell check this quick?):D

My name is spelled Roger

road kill
12-30-2009, 09:43 AM
My name is spelled Roger


Good catch...........:D

subroc
12-30-2009, 09:48 AM
...hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties...

Dave

Please site your source. This is not true.

badbullgator
12-30-2009, 10:05 AM
I love Jessie…..as a wrestler and for his service as a SEAL. I have watched a couple of his shows and I do find humor in the fact that Roger calls FOX News “entertainment” yet buys every word of Jessie’s made of tv conspiracy show. I mean really Roger if you think “the Body” is doing a true investigation rather than producing a show aimed at attracting a viewing audience, your meds must not be working. This show is big on “Unnamed sources” and faceless people “who know”. I know in one show he confirmed that something was going on at a government/Navy base in Alaska because he showed up at the gate and demanded to be let in. they of course would not let him, or anyone else who showed up that way, in. This “confirmed” that something was going on because, as Jessie said, there is NO WAY a former Navy SEAL would not be allowed on a Navy base. I kind of have to disagree with that, SEAL’s are well respected but I don’t believe that being one allows you lifelong access to military bases or government secretes, especially after you have been retired for decades. My brother-in-law is a retired coronial from the AF doing over 15 years with SAC and he is not allowed access to military bases so I doubt Jessie would be either.
Fun to watch show Roger, but about as accurate and true as the 007 movies. BTW roger, in a show called Conspiracy Theory do you really think they would fine anything but a conspiracy?

Eric Johnson
12-30-2009, 10:51 AM
Corey-

Where is your b-i-l, an Air Force retired colonel, prohibited from entering a military base?
There are some areas of all bases (flight line or command post for example) that would not be generally open to retirees and there may be one or two complete bases that are closed (Sandia and Area 51 for example). I'm retired and I've been on a host of installations from all three services. I drive up, present my ID and am passed right through.

All that is too say that Jesse Ventura is a bumpkin. He may have been a Navy SEAL but he was discharged, not retired. He probably presented himself as from the media and the gate guards said, "No. Thank you." The people, active duty and retired and dependents, who do have business on bases are free to come and go. He didn't have any business and he didn't have any credentials.

Eric

Steve Amrein
12-30-2009, 11:12 AM
That performance was less credible than when he was acting the part of a wrestler.


http://imnotbarack.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/jesse-ventura1.jpg

BrianW
12-30-2009, 12:01 PM
Do you really think the explanation is that simple? Do you think people will kill themselves because they wake up one day :?: and say, "gee, those people are free and are not muslim exteremists , (insert "unbelievers" instead) so I'm going to blow myself up."
One day ?!? No, it comes from years/generations of developed attitudes & learned behavior that anything that anything associated with "the unbelievers" is against Allah & intrinsically evil. Their words, not mine. Go to the Koran online and do a search for "unbeliever". Read what they say should happen to us. If it was just them blowing themselves up, that would be one thing. But it's not and they're getting able to kill more unbelievers each time.


Your explanation would assume that they therefore consider themselves Muslim extremists. You and I think they are. They probably don't. That makes your theory fall apart. We'll never eliminate terrorism in the world if we don't even study the problem in order to formulate a solution. Complex problems usually have complex roots. We can oversimplify to suit our arguments, but that won't help us solve the problem.Of course not you can negotiate with a terrorist, not a religious zealotry. They consider themselves instruments of Allah serving the one True Faith and the Prophet preparing for the Ma'adi. It doesn't really matter what you and I "think" as long as that is what they believe.
9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
[9.125] And as for those in whose hearts is a disease, it adds uncleanness to their uncleanness and they die while they are unbelievers.
[9.68] Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment.

They want to kill us, destroy our family, country and way of life in favor of theirs. Imo, it's not much more complex than that. It's not like they want their own homeland. The unbeliever(s) must be chastised, we are cursed by Allah; kinda hard for me to find some common ground to establish a meaningful dialogue from that.

13.35] ...and the requital of the unbelievers is the fire.
18.100] And We will bring forth hell, exposed to view, on that day before the unbelievers.
Call that over simplified if you want.
Do you think this stuff isn't what they're reading in the Muslim Koranic schools where Reid and this guy Abdulmutallab studied?

YardleyLabs
12-30-2009, 12:15 PM
Brian,
You might want to read your quotes in context some day. The Koran is very specific about the duties of believers relative to unbelievers. Believers are not permitted to try to force conversions. Believers must honor agreements made. Believers must seek to live in peace.However, when believers are attacked because of their beliefs or there is an effort to force believers to reject their beliefs then they must fight. Extracting isolated words fro the Koran to try to prove that it is a religion of hate is no differen from my extracting the words of the Bible to prove that believers inthe Bible support slavery.

badbullgator
12-30-2009, 12:39 PM
Corey-

Where is your b-i-l, an Air Force retired colonel, prohibited from entering a military base?
There are some areas of all bases (flight line or command post for example) that would not be generally open to retirees and there may be one or two complete bases that are closed (Sandia and Area 51 for example). I'm retired and I've been on a host of installations from all three services. I drive up, present my ID and am passed right through.

All that is too say that Jesse Ventura is a bumpkin. He may have been a Navy SEAL but he was discharged, not retired. He probably presented himself as from the media and the gate guards said, "No. Thank you." The people, active duty and retired and dependents, who do have business on bases are free to come and go. He didn't have any business and he didn't have any credentials.

Eric

Let me clarify that. I know he (my BIL) has no problem getting into a regular base (he is still a member of the ARMY Navy golf course in Virginia), but the case in question with JV was a military/government research facility, not a standard military base. In fact there was no uniformed military anywhere to be seen on this facility. I would not think that just because you are a retired officer of ANY rank that you would be granted entry without reason. I would be most concerned if a former military person could just walk up to a secured research facility and just walk in. Having done my share of research (non military/government) I can tell you that NOBODY just walks into a research laboratory setting without prior approval. It just does not happen.

david gibson
12-30-2009, 01:10 PM
9/11 truthers crack me up. anyone who thinks that a conspiracy of that level of magnitude and evil could be carried out by Bush et.al. against his own country with not one single direct insider coming out with facts - and there would have to be a lot of co-conspirators - are just nuts. yeah, Bush had a bunch of known muslim extremists recruited to do his deeds, and he must have had direct contact with bin Laden the whole time. and oh yeah, the reason no one has spoken up is because the Bush goons have threatened them, showing the depth of their "system".

geez, just look at "lets roll" flight 93, we have a cell phone recording of what transpired there that directly parallels the Twin Towers and Pentagon incidents. suuuure, Bush had that faked too just to fool us. Makes Bush look a lot smarter than you guys ever gave him credit for, doesnt it?

oh and another thing, if you can prove any of 9/11 was an inside job, then i'll give you 72 virgins in real life.... ;-)

9/11 truthers are the dumbest bunch i have ever seen....

YardleyLabs
12-30-2009, 01:51 PM
.... if you can prove any of 9/11 was an inside job, then i'll give you 72 virgins in real life.... ;-)

As soon as you post the pictures of the 72 virgins that are yours to give...:p

Eric Johnson
12-30-2009, 03:04 PM
Corey-

I agree with you. That was my point in mentioning Sandia...now just a secure portion of Kirkland AFB.

Eric

Uncle Bill
12-30-2009, 05:41 PM
Do you really think the explanation is that simple? Do you think people will kill themselves because they wake up one day and say, "gee, those people are free and are not muslim extremists, so I'm going to blow myself up."

Your explanation would assume that they therefore consider themselves Muslim extremists. You and I think they are. They probably don't. That makes your theory fall apart. We'll never eliminate terrorism in the world if we don't even study the problem in order to formulate a solution. Complex problems usually have complex roots. We can oversimplify to suit our arguments, but that won't help us solve the problem.


And what part of their JIHADIST rants do you not understand? When they SAY you are an imperialistic pig that must be killed, that to you is only a "complex problem"?

This isn't a situation where you are allowed your miranda rights...they have no concept of that 'right'.

Ever tried to 'discuss' or attempt to 'reason' with a grizzley about your wanting to 'understand' him better? So then you can resolve why it believes all you own is his, as well as all the land he travels over is his too.

Unlike you, when someone makes it their 'religion' to kill me, I have a hard time believing I stand a chance to 'reason' with them. It's sorta like you trying to convince me you are an independant, while praising the current administration and it's band of crooks and ignoramuses, and promoting the Democrat issues.

Your 'spots' won't change any more than the towelheads views of my right to life. Our difference lies in the fact I believe them, and take them at their word. You, like most libs, don't think they are serious in their proclamations, and believe you can 'reason' with them.

What's sad is how unprotected those around you are. You and other libs with your views, will continue to think we can make them understand our way of life, even after they have killed off those we love. God help your family if one of these perverts ever decide to make your home the object of their next 'message'.

UB

zeus3925
12-30-2009, 06:33 PM
But according to the second book of the Koran "2.62":


Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

Muslims don't believe that Christians or Jews are unbelievers. (The Sabians were residents of Sheba in present day Iraq). Allah was a name for God that preceded Islam in ancient Middle Eastern Christian communities.

Tom Friedman essentially explains the Muslim view on the Abrahamic religions: Judaism is God version 1.0, Christianity is God version 2.0, and Islam is God version 3.0

dnf777
12-30-2009, 09:01 PM
And what part of their JIHADIST rants do you not understand? When they SAY you are an imperialistic pig that must be killed, that to you is only a "complex problem"? So, the discussion moves beyond "they hate freedom"? Labelling us imperialistic is a rather complex issue, is it not? Unless you agree with them, then there is a discussion about the definition of imperialism, and interpretation of our actions against that definition. Getting a little complex isn't it? Your word, not mine.

This isn't a situation where you are allowed your miranda rights...they have no concept of that 'right'.

Ever tried to 'discuss' or attempt to 'reason' with a grizzley about your wanting to 'understand' him better? So then you can resolve why it believes all you own is his, as well as all the land he travels over is his too. No, but I've tried to reason with right wing-nuts on this list, and met with the same frustrations, although the bear likely has some type of self-serving logic behind his actions.

Unlike you, when someone makes it their 'religion' to kill me, I have a hard time believing I stand a chance to 'reason' with them. It's sorta like you trying to convince me you are an independant, while praising the current administration and it's band of crooks and ignoramuses, and promoting the Democrat issues. Please cite an example. I do recall voicing frustration with this administration's continuation of Bush's large-gov't, deficit spending policies. There are some democratic issues I support, as well as some republican, but unless you can cite examples of me "praising the current admin and it's crooks and ingos", I'll just have to heap your words on the ever-growing heap of misrepresentations and false assumptions.

Your 'spots' won't change any more than the towelheads views of my right to life. Our difference lies in the fact I believe them, and take them at their word. You, like most libs, don't think they are serious in their proclamations, and believe you can 'reason' with them. What exactly do you mean by "towelheads"? Taliban? Arabs? Prince Bandar? Indian Sikhs? Sisters of certain convents? All Muslims? How about General Abizaid--4-star general and commander of US CENTCOM? Hey, I think even Mother Theresa wore a towel around her head a few times. Whew! You paint with a broad brush! Wagner power painter even.

What's sad is how unprotected those around you are. You and other libs with your views, will continue to think we can make them understand our way of life, even after they have killed off those we love. God help your family if one of these perverts ever decide to make your home the object of their next 'message'. Again, more false assumptions to heap on the pile. One comment on something you said though....I don't think, nor do I WANT to make anyone else understand my way of life. Many many wars and millions of lives have been lost due to that frame of mind. I grew up with friends that were Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and Hindu. Since being in the Army and medicine, I've made friends who are also Muslim. I don't try to convert them, they don't try to convert me. (Except for the Assembly of God friend, who thought speaking in tongue would convince me to convert. Instead, I offered him some Valium and anti-seizure medicine) I've learned it's easier to accept people for who they are, and not try to make everyone conform to MY religion or belief.

UB

Try to have a nice day....and loosen up a bit.

dnf777
12-30-2009, 09:10 PM
But according to the second book of the Koran "2.62":



Muslims don't believe that Christians or Jews are unbelievers. (The Sabians were residents of Sheba in present day Iraq). Allah was a name for God that preceded Islam in ancient Middle Eastern Christian communities.

Tom Friedman essentially explains the Muslim view on the Abrahamic religions: Judaism is God version 1.0, Christianity is God version 2.0, and Islam is God version 3.0

Gee Zeus, you kind of popped Brian's balloon of hatred with that one!
There's nothing better than a Bible-quote war of words! I love these.
Can't say I've been witness to a Koran-quote war, but this is good!

david gibson
12-30-2009, 11:07 PM
As soon as you post the pictures of the 72 virgins that are yours to give...:p

huh?

are you serious??

do the Imams provide pics of the virgins to their insipid suicide bombers?

i am appalled you are a supporter of these people.

Pals
12-31-2009, 01:16 AM
David-believe it or not I'm pretty sure Jeff was cracking a joke with that line. When I read it I about fell over, I've never seen Jeff toss one out there like that.

This whole thing is just flat depressing. Maniac ideological crazies scare the crap out of me. .

Roger Perry
12-31-2009, 01:42 PM
My only comment about Jesse Ventura's program was about the black boxes the FBI claims they never found. Jesse spoke with a fire fighter who said he saw a black box that was orange in color loaded into an FBI vehicle and he was told not to speak of the occurrence.



BLACK BOX COVER-UP


Rescue workers silenced after exposing 9-11 whitewash



By Greg Szymanski

A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to “keep my mouth shut” about one of the “black boxes” a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers.
Honorary firefighter Mike Bellone claims he was approached by unknown bureau agents a short time after he and his partner, Nicholas DeMasi, a retired New York firefighter, found three of the four “black boxes” among the WTC rubble before January 2002.
The pair first claimed in an August 2003 book entitled Behind the Scene: Ground Zero to have found the data recorders.
DeMasi said the “black boxes” were found while he traversed “ground zero” in his all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with three federal agents.
FBI and New York fire officials have denied ever finding the voice and data recorders.
Now Bellone claims agents were adamant about keeping the discovery a secret.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/black_box.html

road kill
12-31-2009, 03:58 PM
My only comment about Jesse Ventura's program was about the black boxes the FBI claims they never found. Jesse spoke with a fire fighter who said he saw a black box that was orange in color loaded into an FBI vehicle and he was told not to speak of the occurrence.



BLACK BOX COVER-UP

Rescue workers silenced after exposing 9-11 whitewash

By Greg Szymanski

A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to “keep my mouth shut” about one of the “black boxes” a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers.
Honorary firefighter Mike Bellone claims he was approached by unknown bureau agents a short time after he and his partner, Nicholas DeMasi, a retired New York firefighter, found three of the four “black boxes” among the WTC rubble before January 2002.
The pair first claimed in an August 2003 book entitled Behind the Scene: Ground Zero to have found the data recorders.
DeMasi said the “black boxes” were found while he traversed “ground zero” in his all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with three federal agents.
FBI and New York fire officials have denied ever finding the voice and data recorders.
Now Bellone claims agents were adamant about keeping the discovery a secret.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/black_box.html

I read that they found them in......




.......ready for this???..........





.....They found them in the


BERMUDA TRIANGLE!!!!!

Hew
12-31-2009, 04:20 PM
My only comment about Jesse Ventura's program was about the black boxes the FBI claims they never found. Jesse spoke with a fire fighter who said he saw a black box that was orange in color loaded into an FBI vehicle and he was told not to speak of the occurrence.



BLACK BOX COVER-UP




Rescue workers silenced after exposing 9-11 whitewash




By Greg Szymanski


A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to “keep my mouth shut” about one of the “black boxes” a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers.
Honorary firefighter Mike Bellone claims he was approached by unknown bureau agents a short time after he and his partner, Nicholas DeMasi, a retired New York firefighter, found three of the four “black boxes” among the WTC rubble before January 2002.
The pair first claimed in an August 2003 book entitled Behind the Scene: Ground Zero to have found the data recorders.
DeMasi said the “black boxes” were found while he traversed “ground zero” in his all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with three federal agents.
FBI and New York fire officials have denied ever finding the voice and data recorders.
Now Bellone claims agents were adamant about keeping the discovery a secret.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/black_box.html

Self-proclaimed "Honorary Firefighter" Mike Bellone is a huckster who has cashed in on his time at Ground Zero and in the process of travelling the country with his sideshow of shame has defrauded numerous businesses: http://www.911myths.com/html/black_boxes.html

dnf777
12-31-2009, 04:36 PM
Self-proclaimed "Honorary Firefighter" Mike Bellone is a huckster who has cashed in on his time at Ground Zero and in the process of travelling the country with his sideshow of shame has defrauded numerous businesses: http://www.911myths.com/html/black_boxes.html

Took his cue from George W. Bush, huh? He rode that wave for 7 years and defrauded you and me! Sorry, couldn't resist. And I've been so good about not bringing him up lately. :(

Hew
12-31-2009, 04:56 PM
Took his cue from George W. Bush, huh? He rode that wave for 7 years and defrauded you and me! Sorry, couldn't resist. And I've been so good about not bringing him up lately. :(
Hey, good one.

While you're in a weak frame of mind maybe you can mosey on back to the other thread and flesh out your statement that a Christian Jihadist was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing. I'm guessing you'll somehow find the inner strength to resist defending that claim.

subroc
12-31-2009, 06:02 PM
along with the hundreds of thousands...

Just throw anything up on the wall, see what sticks.

dnf777
12-31-2009, 06:18 PM
You guys crack me up! McVeigh planned the attack to coincide with the Waco siege, in part to avenge his fellow Christians' demise at the hands of the government. Now, you say, that's ridiculous to point out McVeigh or Koresh to represent the feelings of Christians, and I couldn't agree more. So why are some so quick to condemn some 3 billion Muslims based on the actions of a few? You're doing exactly what you're attempting to make fun of me for doing! And I'm just doing it to prove a point...you guys really believe it!

road kill
12-31-2009, 06:21 PM
You guys crack me up! McVeigh planned the attack to coincide with the Waco siege, in part to avenge his fellow Christians' demise at the hands of the government. Now, you say, that's ridiculous to point out McVeigh or Koresh to represent the feelings of Christians, and I couldn't agree more. So why are some so quick to condemn some 3 billion Muslims based on the actions of a few? You're doing exactly what you're attempting to make fun of me for doing! And I'm just doing it to prove a point...you guys really believe it!
I think the issue for many is that the 3 billion peace loving Muslims you speak of do NOT denounce the actions of the few!!


Personally, I wish RP was as much a stickler for MATH as he is SPELLING!!:rolleyes:

Just sayin'

rk

Hew
01-01-2010, 07:50 AM
McVeigh stated he was agnostic. Agnostics are not Christians. Therefore, a Christian was not responsible for Oklahoma City as you stated.

zeus3925
01-01-2010, 09:58 AM
I think the issue for many is that the 3 billion peace loving Muslims you speak of do NOT denounce the actions of the few!!
rk

The Detroit Free Press reported last week on a Muslim sponsored rally in Dearborn, MI to protest the actions of the plane bomber and Al-qaeda. Dearborn has the largest ethenic Arabic population in the U.S.

http://freep.com/article/20091226/NEWS05/91226015/1004/news02/Nigerian-Muslims-in-Michigan-condemn-attack

http://freep.com/article/20091228/NEWS02/912280317/1004/news02/Profiling-a-slight-concern-for-U.S.-Nigerian-Muslims

http://freep.com/article/20091228/NEWS02/912280316/1004/news02/Protest-planned-to-tell-world-Islam-is-peaceful

road kill
01-01-2010, 10:23 AM
The Detroit Free Press reported last week on a Muslim sponsored rally in Dearborn, MI to protest the actions of the plane bomber and Al-qaeda. Dearborn has the largest ethenic Arabic population in the U.S.

3 billion peace loving Muslims, finally a protest against Terrorist Muslims!!

I am impressed!!

This changes everything!!

(Hope RP doesn't check the spelling on our posts)

Roger Perry
01-01-2010, 12:17 PM
3 billion peace loving Muslims, finally a protest against Terrorist Muslims!!

I am impressed!!

This changes everything!!

(Hope RP doesn't check the spelling on our posts)

You must have learned how to use spell check.;)

badbullgator
01-01-2010, 01:06 PM
This just in form Roger.....Hitler was made up....no really, he saw it on tv....never really happened...but there is still hope that Bush can somehow take the blame for it now....

BrianW
01-02-2010, 02:44 PM
Gee Zeus, you kind of popped Brian's balloon of hatred with that one!

My balloon of hatred?!?
Sorry, can't accept that "honor".
I'm not the one saying that the State of Israel and it's supporter "The Great Satan" must be forever wiped from the pages of history.

I base my views on the words & experiences of people who've been there- heard that.
My former Iranian co-worker who barely escaped Tehran after the Islamist Revolution. Khomeini followers "loved" his family so much that they sent them to Allah early, in pieces, for not supporting the revolution enough and sending their sons to be martyrs.
The Lebanese Christian parents of one of my best friends who were forced to flee their homes during the Syrian occupation. It didn't matter how many peaceful Muslim neighbors spoke for them to the radicals. They were "Christians" not followers of Islam, & given one "loving " choice, leave or die after "tolerant" fundamentalists, pulled the crucifix from the wall, broke it & urinated on it.
The Palestinian wife of my martial arts teacher who was cast out by her family for dating/marrying an "unbeliever", an American Christian. She became an infidel, a "traitor to the intifada" and was almost stoned by the followers of peace, her "loving" friends & neighbors for most of her young life because she wasn't "Islamic" enough anymore..

Those verses are but a small example of what those folks could tell you if you had the chance. I'm sure they'd love to hear of how loving, tolerant and peaceful the fundamentalists really are. Those verses are not "out of context" according to them. They are examples of what " the true believers" have said to them while carrying out their mission as instruments of Allah.

As I said earlier, it doesn't matter what we think, when that's what they believe and use to justify their actions. Just ask Daniel Pearl & Nick Berg. Oh that's right, we can't. We got to see on video how peaceful, loving & tolerant the true believers can be to them.

dnf777
01-02-2010, 03:12 PM
As I said earlier, it doesn't matter what we think, when that's what they believe and use to justify their actions.

We don't disagree. Your above words may have been lifted directly from my earlier posts. That's my point exactly. Somewhere along the line, my pointing that out was perceived as some great defense of radical Islam. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To say that all these acts of terror are as simple as someone waking up and deciding "I hate freedom, I think I'll blow myself up" is retarded. Your interpretation of the Koran was just that...YOUR interpretation. Certainly, recent events prove that a fair number of Muslims share that interpretation. But the millions, nay, billions of other Muslims who don't blow themselves up show that a much larger number do not share that radical interpretation. Painting with a broad brush is always messy.

Roger Perry
01-02-2010, 07:05 PM
This just in form Roger.....Hitler was made up....no really, he saw it on tv....never really happened...but there is still hope that Bush can somehow take the blame for it now....

Actually, Hitler was reincarnated as the 43rd President of the United States.


Is it possible that GW Bush is the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler?


Adolf Hitler (20 April 1889 – 30 April 1945)
George Walker Bush (born July 6, 1946)

Most Americans have forgotten that Hitler came to power legally. He and the Nazi Party were elected democratically in a time of great national turmoil and crisis. They themselves had done much to cause the turmoil, of course, but that's what makes the Bush comparison so compelling.

Similar to the Bush administration, the Nazis were funded and ultimately ushered into power by wealthy industrialists looking for government favors in the form of tax breaks, big subsidies, and laws to weaken the rights of workers. When the Reichstag (Germany's Parliament building) was set ablaze in 1933 (probably by Nazis), the Nazis framed their political rivals for it. In the general panic that followed, the German Parliament was purged of all left-wing representatives who might be soft on communists and foreigners, and the few who remained then VOTED to grant Chancellor Hitler dictatorial powers. http://www.1933key.com/news/patriot_act_… (http://www.1933key.com/news/patriot_act_vs_enabling_act.php)

2 years ago

K G
01-02-2010, 07:20 PM
C'mon dnf...surely you have something to add here....

Birds of a feather regards, :cool:

kg

dnf777
01-02-2010, 07:43 PM
C'mon dnf...surely you have something to add here....

Birds of a feather regards, :cool:

kg

Nah, I'll take a pass. Making comparisons to Hitler is almost always in poor taste, and picking on Mr. Bush is, well, just too easy. Its not pc to make fun of the intellectually challenged. ;)

YardleyLabs
01-02-2010, 07:53 PM
McVeigh stated he was agnostic. Agnostics are not Christians. Therefore, a Christian was not responsible for Oklahoma City as you stated.
I don't think religion had anything at all to do with McVeigh's actions. While he did once say that "My religion is science.", McVeigh was born and raised as a practicing Catholic. He became inactive, but still professed to believe in God and a universe controlled by God. At his request, he was attended to by a Catholic priest before his execution. None of that sounds very agnostic.

K G
01-02-2010, 10:37 PM
....and picking on Mr. Bush is, well, just too easy....

I understand why you and those who think like you do so....it helps keep the focus off of all that BHO and his administration are NOT accomplishing for the American people...you know, all of that "hope" and "change" rhetoric....:rolleyes:....smoke and mirrors....shuck and jive....:razz:

I just hope you and yours keep believing in and practicing that strategy....;-)

kg

(check this out if you think that strategy is working: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_month_by_month )

david gibson
01-02-2010, 11:19 PM
You guys crack me up! McVeigh planned the attack to coincide with the Waco siege, in part to avenge his fellow Christians' demise at the hands of the government. Now, you say, that's ridiculous to point out McVeigh or Koresh to represent the feelings of Christians, and I couldn't agree more. So why are some so quick to condemn some 3 billion Muslims based on the actions of a few? You're doing exactly what you're attempting to make fun of me for doing! And I'm just doing it to prove a point...you guys really believe it!

here's the difference:

there are many many many more times the number of muslim fanatics vying for their 72 virgins.

one lunatic mcveigh, thousands of suicide islamic lunatics.

BIG difference.

Hew
01-02-2010, 11:20 PM
None of that sounds very agnostic.
Other than the letter he wrote to a newspaper just before his execution in which he claimed he was agnostic. As you said he did have a Catholic priest administer to him just before he was killed. Perhaps he was hedging his bets...isn't that what a good agnostic would do? ;)

But I agree with you...religion had nothing to do with the OK City bombing.

dback
01-02-2010, 11:25 PM
At his request, he was attended to by a Catholic priest before his execution. None of that sounds very agnostic.

I remember reading in 'The Greatest Generation', one of the contributors stating that German 88s had brought more men to Christ than any priest ever could.....I'd think an EC might just have a similar effect.

dnf777
01-03-2010, 07:32 AM
I understand why you and those who think like you do so....it helps keep the focus off of all that BHO and his administration are NOT accomplishing for the American people...you know, all of that "hope" and "change" rhetoric....:rolleyes:....smoke and mirrors....shuck and jive....:razz:

I just hope you and yours keep believing in and practicing that strategy....;-)

kg

(check this out if you think that strategy is working: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_month_by_month )


Once again we see the false assumptions of "you're either with us, or against us". Why do you assume that anyone who points out the mess Mr. Bush made of things in 8 years is an ardent Obama supporter??? I didn't vote for either, although I will admit, I would have voted for Barney if he was the only alternative to Bush! Why was I being goaded into commenting on a fanciful bunch of crap regarding reincarnation? I don't mind spirited debate, as I've said many times, but let others comment when they want. We don't need a director. And remember, to paraphrase your great fountain of wisdom, 'if human beings and fish can coexist peacefully....so can we!'

dnf777
01-03-2010, 04:27 PM
BIG difference.

Darn right there is. I don't disagree. But that doesn't make racism and ethnic discrimination ok. There are thousands of young black males committing crimes in our inner cities. I don't, and I doubt you, brand all african-americans as thugs. There are millions of Muslims that do not condone terrorism, but rather denounce it. I have no beef with them.
For about the tenth time, I will say that I am only pointing out that to trivialize terrorism as people who just decided to hate America because we're free, is ignoring the issues, and likely missing a chance to fix it. The "kill 'em all, let God sort them out" attitude is juvenile and only serves to perpetuate religious wars....not end them.

subroc
01-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Ignoring what issues? And, is it us that needs to fix something because they hate us?

dnf777
01-03-2010, 05:01 PM
Ignoring what issues? And, is it us that needs to fix something because they hate us?

Issues such as occupation of muslim nations. Your hero, George W. Bush considered this issue, and under his leadership, we withdrew from our bases in Saudi Arabia. That was one thing that I think he was right on with. And yes, since we're the one's projecting ourselves throughout the world, in the majority of cases for damn good reasons, we do need to be the ones who wield our power responsibly. Is that too much to ask? In the military there's a saying, "rank has it privelage, and rank has its responsibility." We hold rank in the world, and have always rendered it responsibly.

Does that answer your question?

subroc
01-03-2010, 05:07 PM
Yes, your opinion is we need to apologize for being us.

In case you forgot 9/11. They hated us before we occupied any nation.

dnf777
01-03-2010, 07:27 PM
You guys are so quick to dodge issues and attribute you false notions to other's opinions! I answered your question, and you quickly try to divert with false accusations of my opinion!? I just visited the WTC site last week, so no, I haven't forgotten. Perhaps YOU have forgotten who attacked us? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't Saddam Hussein!

Also, if you don't think we've ever occupied Muslin nations prior to 9-11, there's no use continuing this discussion. I'm not a history teacher....I don't even play one on tv.

And no, I don't think we need to apologize. Even though Bush's pre-emptive attack policies were based on lies and reperesented a departure from our 200+ years of successful foreign policy, he was our president, and we don't need to apologize. We need to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Go ahead with more false mind-reading attempts and diversions now....

david gibson
01-03-2010, 07:50 PM
You guys are so quick to dodge issues and attribute you false notions to other's opinions! I answered your question, and you quickly try to divert with false accusations of my opinion!? I just visited the WTC site last week, so no, I haven't forgotten. Perhaps YOU have forgotten who attacked us? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't Saddam Hussein!

Also, if you don't think we've ever occupied Muslin nations prior to 9-11, there's no use continuing this discussion. I'm not a history teacher....I don't even play one on tv.

And no, I don't think we need to apologize. Even though Bush's pre-emptive attack policies were based on lies and reperesented a departure from our 200+ years of successful foreign policy, he was our president, and we don't need to apologize. We need to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Go ahead with more false mind-reading attempts and diversions now....

therein shows your mindset. there were no "lies", just bad intel. intel that was gathered under the previous Clinton administration, as well as under the beginning of Bush. Intel that was believed and backed by Kerry and other Dems as well. how many times did we hear Bush blame Clinton?? ZERO

and if you dont thing Saddam had WMD and got rid of them (likely to Syria) and he was innocent the whole time then, fine, that just shows your true colors more... ;-)

dnf777
01-03-2010, 08:09 PM
therein shows your mindset. there were no "lies", just bad intel. intel that was gathered under the previous Clinton administration, as well as under the beginning of Bush. Intel that was believed and backed by Kerry and other Dems as well. how many times did we hear Bush blame Clinton?? ZERO

and if you dont thing Saddam had WMD and got rid of them (likely to Syria) and he was innocent the whole time then, fine, that just shows your true colors more... ;-)

Yes, Saddam did have WMDs. (past tense) I was there when Clinton launched the last large wave of attacks prior to the second Gulf War, in response to Saddam removing the UNSCOM inspectors. The bombing campaign was designed to rid Iraq of all known WMD facilities. We'll never know if they were destroyed in that bombing campaign or shuttled to neighbors. The fact they haven't surfaced through intel or usage to this day makes one think they may have been destroyed. Again, we'll never know. I'll never forget hearing the f-15s launching into the night at full afterburner in support of those bombing missions, wondering what the next days would bring. We knew there were scuds pointed at us, and feared he would launch in a "last hurrah". Nothing, fortunately, ever came.

If this was an honest mistake by intel, why was Joe Wilson dismissed and his wife the target of Cheney/Scooter when he made the egregious error of pointing out that the sole intel source for the yellowcake from Niger was dubious at best? Wouldn't a responsible administration at least look into this? I've heard intel analysts state that to base policy on single-source intel is haphazard at best, and not 'how its done'. And the Downing street memos stating that the intel was to be made to "fit" the war plan? Come on. We may have been born at night, but not LAST night!

Hew
01-03-2010, 09:54 PM
Yes, Saddam did have WMDs. (past tense) I was there when Clinton launched the last large wave of attacks prior to the second Gulf War, in response to Saddam removing the UNSCOM inspectors. Actually, Saddam didn't remove the inspectors; Clinton and the UN did...in order to pave the way for the bombing to come. Many have commented that Clinton was hell-bent on the bombing and was just ginning up an excuse. I happen to think it was justified. The bombing campaign was designed to rid Iraq of all known WMD facilities. Not according to Madeline Albright. In her words, it was designed to "degrade" Iraq's ability to use WMDs, and that there was no pretense that we'd end the threat of WMDs in Iraq. We'll never know if they were destroyed in that bombing campaign or shuttled to neighbors. Well, the Secretary of State said we didn't even pretend to try to destroy them all. She and other Clinton admin officials continued to warn about IRaq WMD threats well after Desert Fox. The fact they haven't surfaced through intel or usage to this day makes one think they may have been destroyed. Again, we'll never know. I'll never forget hearing the f-15s launching into the night at full afterburner in support of those bombing missions, wondering what the next days would bring. We knew there were scuds pointed at us, and feared he would launch in a "last hurrah". Nothing, fortunately, ever came. I've got no qualms with somebody who distrusts the govt. and thinks that the threat of WMDs in Iraq was exaggerated. Perfectly reasonable thinking; if applied to both administrations. I draw a line though at folks who claim Bush manufactured WMD threats while at the same time pretending that Clinton didn't do the same thing. That's just partisan hackery at its worst. Heck, much of the intelligence, justification and rhetoric Bush used to invade Iraq was the same intelligence, justification and rhetoric that Clinton had aquired/used in his previous 8 years.

Take a murderous, destabilizing tyrant and add all the WMD doomsday claims made by Clinton admin officials and prominent Democrats (and Republicans), add 3,000 dead Americans and stir and you've got a perfect storm of rationale and justification to invade Iraq.

BTW, a few days ago you used your anecdotal experience to claim that there was not one violation of the southern no-fly zone while you were there. Knowing now that you were over there in Dec. of '98 and knowing that there was a flurry of Iraq no-fly zone violations just before and well after Desert Fox (including a freakin' dogfight between two Iraqi jets and two American jets just a few weeks after Desert Fox), would you care to ammend your previous claim or did I somehow misunderstand what you'd previously wrote?
.....................

dnf777
01-04-2010, 06:03 AM
While I was there, the pilots I had lunch with during my time at Prince Sultan Air Base (PSAB) said it was a boring mission for them. No scrambles other than drills. They did enjoy the cheap Jet-A with frequent afterburner climb-outs, which are costly when paying full price.

Maybe the bombing wasn't desinged to rid all the WMDs, but I find it interesting that none of them have ever surfaced, either through intel or by usage. But I'm not claiming Clinton bombed all of them into non-existence. I said we'll never know.