PDA

View Full Version : High Speed Rail



badbullgator
01-29-2010, 07:58 AM
Ok, Letís talk high speed rail. Obummer was up the road form me yesterday, along with our soon to be former governor, pushing a national high speed rail. They were particularly pushing a HSR from Tampa to Orlando. The total obummer was talking for the national rail was 8 BILLION. Now I have a few questions about the practicality of a HSR. First, here in Florida, we voted AGAINST a HSR a few years back and those against it won by a 3 to 1 margin. Obviously this is something that is not wanted by the state of Florida, however the argument they are trying to make is that it was defeated because it was state money and now it is fed money (still comes form my pocket and yours). How if the people of Florida do not want a HSR has this thing reared its ugly head again?
Next question I ponder. Just who exactly is going to ride this HSR? Really, in this case the trip from Tampa to Orlando is less than an hour by car. Keep in mind these two cities are not NYC or Chicago where there is tremendous traffic and parking is impossible, They do have traffic but it is pretty tame by big city standards. I just do not believe for one second that there are enough commuters to make this viable. Numerous studies were done before we defeated funding this nonsense that indicated there was no way this would be profitable and that any HSR would have to be subsidized to survive, thus taking more money form our pockets (or schools, roadsÖ.).
I also wonder this about a national HSR. I donít know about you, but if I have to go to Chicago and I can get on a plane and fly round trip for about $200 and be there in 2-3 hours, why in the world would I want to get on a train? I donít care how fast it is, it is not going to get there as fast and the cost could not be much if any less.
Ok, along that line letís assume we build a national HSR. Now keep in mind they are talking about stimulus money to build this and it is all about job creation. Well while I can see jobs being created I also seem many, many jobs being lost. This would not mean job creation but rather job shifting at best. Where do you suspect riders would come from? Is there going to be an increased number of travelers? I think not. I think they would have to come from the pool of people that are already traveling and that would mean that the forms of transportation they currently use would lose business. The airlines, bus lines, rental cars, and auto industry would be the ones to take a hit (lets not forget about the current passenger rails). You would have to suspect that the airlines would be hit hard and that would cost jobs in that industry as well as increase cost. I see this as just one more attempt to shift wealth from one industry to another, but in this case not only will you have a wealth shift, but that wealth shift will not be enough to cover the cost of the new industry (HSR). This means not only will the existing transportation industries lose money, the money that is lost by them will go to another industry that will not only take their money but also require giant subsidies.
Someone please tell me does Amtrak make money?? NO!!!! So you mean to tell me that the reason they do not make money is because their trains donít go fast enough?
I have no problem with the rail industry as far as freight goes, but it is antiquated as far as moving people. Why is it the current administration seems to want to push us back 100ís of year.

road kill
01-29-2010, 08:14 AM
We are really excited about high-speed rail in WI!!!!!!!

We will be getting $800,000,000 of YOUR dollars to build a system from Milwaukee to Madison.
(that no one here wants and even less need!)

That's about 75 miles or so.
You can drive in in about an hour to an hour and a half for about $15.00 in gas.

But now, thanks to this exciting program, you can travel this trip in about 4 to 4-1/2 hours for about $40!!!!
(travel to parking lot, pay for parking, pay for train ticket, wait for train, ride to next town, get a cab or bus!!)


EXCITING AND IT FEELS GOOD!!!:D



rk

Illinois Bob
01-29-2010, 10:21 AM
[quote=badbullgator;558878]
Next question I ponder. Just who exactly is going to ride this HSR? /quote]


I thought of it like this, It's all about jobs now.Creating jobs.All of this money being spent on crap that nobody wants is about jobs.The trains will create jobs:rolleyes:.On the other hand,a proposed spending freeze is all about saving money.Part of the talk about the spending freeze is to cancell out Nasa funding for the Constellation project.That money saved will cost thousands of jobs and affect hundreds of contractors.My company is one among them.Florida will already lose about 7000 jobs(I've heard different estimates) when the space shuttle ends.Those lost jobs are on top of the those that will be lost from cancelling Constellation.Some of those shuttle workers would be able to get new jobs with the new NASA project but now they can work on trains instead.It really isn't about creating jobs or saving money.It's all about choice.They are just choosing trains instead of
space.At least the astronauts that were training to go to space can now take a fast train to Space Mountain instead.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/27/obama-budget-drop-nasa-constellation-program/

BonMallari
01-29-2010, 10:56 AM
Talking about a rail no one wanted.the one going from Sahara Hotel to the MGM was a dog from the get go and thats about three miles and is now bankrupt...how does this administration think the American public will embrace a technology that doesnt fit this country's lifestyle...I would ask who would profit from this who would build this rail

Marvin S
01-29-2010, 12:41 PM
When the public is able to stop subsidizing these schemes, then it might make sense. We have a thing called Metro Transit (King, Pierce, Snohomish counties) that is in it's infancy. As taxpayers we get to subsidize same to the tune of 6/10's of a cent sales tax on all purchases. That wasn't enough, so now they have a license tab fee. I won't even talk about the management deficiencies, but they are legend worthy :(. If you desire to use the facility, there is no place to park.

Does any one know of any public transport on any scale that does not require a subsidy. Amtrak has never been able to wean itself from the public teat.

As I grew up, SD had the Milwaukee Road, served many of the little towns along its route. This included stopping along the way occasionally at sidings to pickup local freight. Larger trucks led to the demise of the local freight hauling.

While I would rather ride on a train than go to the airport with all it's attendant hassle, I see little need to whistle along at 150-200 MPH. One of the advantages of train travel is the not normally seen scenery. Plus I do not see how a HSR would work logistically, you just don't have pockets of people as they do at airports. Speed up, slow down, speed up, stop, what a great ride ;-).

But, it's about creating make work & another voting dependency for the D's :rolleyes:.

Julie R.
01-29-2010, 01:50 PM
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Democrats.jpg
Don't forget that when those boatloads of illiterate Haitians Obama's about to settle in the U.S. start arriving in Florida some of them will need jobs and they'll all need transportation. I heard a few million were being sent to Ft. Myer.
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/LMAO.jpg

Gerry Clinchy
01-30-2010, 11:47 AM
Michael Medved discussed the Tampa/Orlando HSR on his radio show yesterday. Same perspective as gator.

What we really need is HSR freight system. Would save a lot of $ on maintenance of the interstate road system for starters. Would save money on the accidents caused by the horrendous 65-ft tractor trailers.

One of my clients drove a freight train from Newark to Albany. Took MUCH longer than a drive because there is only one track. So, when a train is coming in the opposite direction, one train has to pull off on the siding ... wasting a couple of hours just waiting for the other train to pass. One can easily see how this makes rail freight very inadequate for many types of cargo. However, if you had two tracks, the trip would be expedited exponentially?

So, if you want to build "infrastructure" that will actually be used, it should be for freight. If we could build the Interstate road system, we could build rail as well. then let private companies bid for the use of the rail. Let private companies bid for the maintenance contracts. And once the system is paid off ... sell it!

Might also spend the $ better providing upgrade to existing commuter rail.

Here in my area, we could actually use commuter rail into Philadelphia. There used to be such a rail commute, but was discontinued many years ago. Today it could again become profitable as more people have moved further from the City. All commute from our area to NYC is via bus! (the park & ride bus stops are over-packed weekdays! so people would rather not drive themselves to NYC if they had an alternative). Rail is planned for an area north of here. Fed $ could have been of good use there to expedite that project. I-78 in our area has the highest accident rate of any in the Interstate system! due to heavy commuter traffic to No Jersey & the trucks going into NYC.

Thomas D
01-30-2010, 12:56 PM
" in this case the trip from Tampa to Orlando is less than an hour by car."

Your points are well taken, Corey. However, Tampa to Orlando is not less than an hour, unless you would count from the east edge of Hillsborough County to eht west edge of Orange and then it would be a push. I used to figure close to 1.5 hours from downtown Tampa to downtown Orlando.

I would imagine it's also pushed by the tourist industry (read Disney). Whatever they want they seem to get. We all thought it was dead and burried in 2004, but guess not.

Uncle Bill
01-30-2010, 02:50 PM
" in this case the trip from Tampa to Orlando is less than an hour by car."

Your points are well taken, Corey. However, Tampa to Orlando is not less than an hour, unless you would count from the east edge of Hillsborough County to eht west edge of Orange and then it would be a push. I used to figure close to 1.5 hours from downtown Tampa to downtown Orlando.

I would imagine it's also pushed by the tourist industry (read Disney). Whatever they want they seem to get. We all thought it was dead and burried in 2004, but guess not.


I suspect it's some kind of a Bolshevick plot. Lot of that going on.

But hey...Some things in life, like gun control...never seem to go away.:rolleyes:

UB

dnf777
01-30-2010, 04:58 PM
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Democrats.jpg
Don't forget that when those boatloads of illiterate Haitians Obama's about to settle in the U.S. start arriving in Florida some of them will need jobs and they'll all need transportation. I heard a few million were being sent to Ft. Myer.
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/LMAO.jpg

Just heard the Florida gov saying they'll be happy to continue to accept and help critical Hatians, and he was asking for guess what? Federal money! Your tax dollars!