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Franco
02-22-2010, 08:42 PM
I think so! And, lets tax it too.
http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf?/base/national-36/126683879241250.xml&storylist=health

Afterall, who wants to bail Grandma out of jail!

Buzz
02-24-2010, 09:06 AM
I was just reading about drug wars in Mexico. Maybe legalizing would put some of them out of business?

Franco
02-24-2010, 09:31 AM
Not sure what impact it would have with the Mexican drug lords as I have a feeling that is a small part of thier busienss.

I've read in several articles that most is grown domestically and is Canada's #1 cash crop.

For me, the big question is if people suffering with various ailments are finding releif, then why can't they use an all natural solution? Is it the drug companies lobbing against it? Lets face it, many of the side effects of percription drugs cause more problems then they solve.

Tax revenue would be another issue.

Koolaid
02-24-2010, 09:54 AM
It's kind of a weird situation. "Drug" dealers don't want to lose their revenue, "drug" users don't want big businesses to increase prices and for it to be taxed, and those who know nothing about it see legalization as the end of the world.
I have a feeling it would have been legal in Canada years ago without US pressures.

YardleyLabs
02-24-2010, 09:57 AM
I basically favor legalization but definitely believe there will be both negative and positive consequences.

A significant number of people are still imprisoned each year for violation of laws on sale and possession of marijuana, as distinct from other drugs. Legalization would take them out of the criminal justice system.

Legalization would increase tax revenues, without affecting end user costs, and remove the "subsidy" now received by criminal traffickers.

However, there is a big difference between marijuana and alcohol in terms of how the drugs are used. Most people using alcohol are not actually looking to get drunk. Everyone using marijuana is looking to get stoned (when was the last time someone took a toke, smelled the smoke to comment on the vintage, and then did not proceed to smoke until his eyes went glassy?:rolleyes:).

There is no question in my mind, that legalizing marijuana will increase the incidence of intoxication among both adults and minors. In addition, I have little doubt that legalizing marijuana will increase the incidence of smoking much more dangerous drugs such as .... tobacco.;-)

Legalization is not the same as endorsement of use. Many things are bad for our health but still legal. For all of its negatives, marijuana is clearly less harmful to health than many substances that are now legal. I suspect that it will take a Republican to get a legalization bill passed, just as it took a Republican to open relations with China. Otherwise, any push for legalization will simply become another bullet in the culture war arsenal.

WRL
02-24-2010, 10:04 AM
I'm all for legalization.

IN AK when I was growing up, it was legal. Then illegal, then legal then illegal.

I think it is currently illegal.

Legalization will not make the usage go up (those that want to smoke it will) and it will take a bite out of crime (removing users and sellers from the prison system) plus giving an avenue for purchase. It will also lower the "street price".

I say legalize it, tax the hell out of it and use THAT to pay for health care reform.....:)

Just like alcohol, make it unacceptable to be "under the influence" within certain job parameters. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you don;t have to be responsible for your behavior.

WRL

Koolaid
02-24-2010, 10:09 AM
This may be because I'm Canadian. It's true that people smoke it to get high, but in all honesty if someone wants to get get some weed, then they go get some. It's not like you have to walk into some sketchy part of town and worry for your life. I can walk up the street in any neighbor hood and pick up a bag.

The other thing is you tend to only stay "high" for a short amount of time...it's not like alcohol where you wake up the next morning and worry about getting a DUI on the drive to work.

How we have it up north now works fairly well. It could be better, but decriminalization is a good first step. The only stupid thing is they have started a new round of government anti-drug commercials. The gateway drug theory and addiction crap have been debunked so many times that crap is getting old.

I personally love it. I probably get high once a month or so. When you've had one of those really bad days there is nothing better than a little bit of weed, a bag of chips and a big glass of chocolate milk.

Koolaid
02-24-2010, 10:12 AM
Just like alcohol, make it unacceptable to be "under the influence" within certain job parameters. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you don;t have to be responsible for your behavior.

WRL

They've started that up here. Laws came into place last year that were specifically for being under the influence of marijuana while driving. I believe the penalties are the same as drinking and driving. Hopefully it's just setting the groundwork for the eventual legalization.

badbullgator
02-24-2010, 10:25 AM
I have been for it for decades. NOBODY should be in prison for pot.....NOBODY, we need the room for real criminals.
I have a buddy who got 2 years for possession on 2 ozs. Fist offence....2 years...how did that do justice for anyone?
The only problem with being under the influence while driving is there is really no way to tell WHEN a person smoked it. I did drug testing for many years and spent lots of time in court an that is always a problem....27 days in your system so when did you use it. Most law says if it is in your system (agan 27 days) you areunder the influence, but any one who has ever used it only wises it lasted that long. Many workers comp cases have been both won and lost on this isse as well. If you go to work and fall and break something and they test your urine at the hospital and you smoked 2 weeks before it happened you will still be positive and screwed as far as a claim goes.

funny thing about the "war on drugs" if it is working why are they still easily avaliable and why are many of them as cheap or even in many cases cheaper than they were 15-20 years ago. Cocaine was $80-100/gram back in the 80's and now I understand fomr people that know a gram is going for $50-80. Seems to me if it were working prices would have gone up and avalibility would have gone down.

The next problem would be that making it legal would kill a huge industry that is geared completely towards it NOT being Legal.

dnf777
02-24-2010, 10:26 AM
[QUOTE=YardleyLabs;572828] Most people using alcohol are not actually looking to get drunk. Everyone using marijuana is looking to get stoned (when was the last time someone took a toke, smelled the smoke to comment on the vintage, and then did not proceed to smoke until his eyes went glassy?:rolleyes:).


Not sure I totally agree with that. I think there are people who would take a few hits to relax, unwind, and chill, without the intent on getting totally zoned. So I've been told.

Likewise, I see lots of folks at the watering holes in town who plop down on a barstool with no intent of leaving anywhere near sober.

All in all, I think alcohol exerts a far larger cost on society in terms of injury, death, and destruction of property, domestic and other abuse and violence.

I just don't see guys toking away, then chest thumping and jumping in cars to drag race....

Franco
02-24-2010, 10:39 AM
So I've been told.



:o

There are estimates of over 30 million regular users in the USA. The impact could be two fold on Healthcare. First, the tax of it could go to Healthcare and many who are suffering with various cronic pain would have an alternative from taking synthetic drugs laden with harmful side effects.

I know of someone that suffers with migraine headaches that swears it is the only substance that makes the headaches go away. He buys it from one of his friends that is a CPA and not some back alley drug dealer!

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 11:01 AM
I would hate to come to work and have a forklift hit me because the driver smoked up on the way to work just because it's legal. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Yes, I know that you can't legislate morality, but what would be the advantages of legalizing it? Oh, we can collect tax money and some deadbeats would get out of jail. Great. Guess what folks, some things are more important than money! Condoning the behavior WILL make more people do it, especially people who aren't mature enough to make decisions based on what is good and bad for them or their future. It's already hard enough to raise good kids in our culture and this won't make it any easier.

subroc
02-24-2010, 11:06 AM
I am for decrimanalizing.

Koolaid
02-24-2010, 12:09 PM
I would hate to come to work and have a forklift hit me because the driver smoked up on the way to work just because it's legal. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Yes, I know that you can't legislate morality, but what would be the advantages of legalizing it? Oh, we can collect tax money and some deadbeats would get out of jail. Great. Guess what folks, some things are more important than money! Condoning the behavior WILL make more people do it, especially people who aren't mature enough to make decisions based on what is good and bad for them or their future. It's already hard enough to raise good kids in our culture and this won't make it any easier.


I'm only 23...when I was 17 it was far easier to find a place to buy pot than it was to find someone to buy me liquor at the store. Also, the driver who hit you with the forklift was drunk. Or he was on his cell phone. Now what? Making it legal won't even change who smokes it. The guy driving the forklift was high last week before it was legal too. You treat it the same as alcohol.
Here is a post I c/p from someone else from somewhere else. It isn't a couple deadbeats.

As many of you know, this November California voters will be voting on whether to fully legalize and regulate marijuana. I and many people I know are in full support of such legislation across the country, so I thought I'd go ahead and throw together a cost/benefit analysis of legalization for skeptics

Here we go:

1 in 3 people over 18 have tried marijuana at least once.

In 2008, 847,846 people were arrested for marijuana related crimes. To compare - only 594,911 were arrested for violent crimes.

Of those 847,846 arrested, only 11% were trafficking arrests. The other 89% were possession arrests.

1 Person is arrested every 38 seconds for a marijuana related crime.

Based on current estimated state by state marijuana consumption, the federal government could make between $700,000,000 and $1,500,000,000 dollars a year by regulating and taxing marijuana. This does not include state and local taxes.

Instead of making between 700 million and 1.5 billion dollars, the federal government SPENDS $14,100,000,000 dollars every year enforcing marijuana laws.

That's 26,809 dollars per minute or 467 dollars PER SECOND!

These numbers don't include the billions of dollars spent every year to keep marijuana offenders in jail nor do they include lost tax revenue of people kept in jail.

Ask yourself these few questions:

1) Would you rather have the government spending 467 dollars a second on arresting people for possession of a plant? Or would you rather have that 467 dollars a second going to schools, roads or tax cuts?

2) Would you rather have money spent on marijuana going to drug lords or the government?

3) Does it make sense to outlaw a plant that has been scientifically proven to be less harmful that Alcohol?

4) Would it help or hurt America's economy to create a new, multi-billion dollar industry in the United States?

Think about it.

Sources: NORML.com, whitehousedrugpolicy.gov, drugabuse.gov, fbi.gov, usdoj.gov

road kill
02-24-2010, 12:11 PM
I was just reading about drug wars in Mexico. Maybe legalizing would put some of them out of business?
You think the drug market is corrupt now??

Wait till the Feds run it!!:D



rk

WRL
02-24-2010, 12:14 PM
I would hate to come to work and have a forklift hit me because the driver smoked up on the way to work just because it's legal. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Yes, I know that you can't legislate morality, but what would be the advantages of legalizing it? Oh, we can collect tax money and some deadbeats would get out of jail. Great. Guess what folks, some things are more important than money! Condoning the behavior WILL make more people do it, especially people who aren't mature enough to make decisions based on what is good and bad for them or their future. It's already hard enough to raise good kids in our culture and this won't make it any easier.

That's bunk.

Those that want to smoke it are already doing it.

Those that don't, aren't. It IS that simple.

"....especially people who aren't mature enough to make decisions based on what is good or bad for them or their future....."

Well pray tell, who SHOULD make those decisions? YOU???

WRL

subroc
02-24-2010, 12:15 PM
while I am for the decriminalizing of it, I am not for the regulating and taxing of it.

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 12:50 PM
Those that want to smoke it are already doing it.


I'm gonna call BS.

There are people that don't smoke it because it's bad or because they are told that it is bad. It has a stigma, or a taboo about it. After it is legal for a little while, it will lose that taboo and people who wouldn't have tried it before because it is illegal and 'bad' will now do so, because it has lost it's shock value.

It's all about desensitization, the same as every other moral and ethical problem that we face as a society.

Gerry Clinchy
02-24-2010, 12:51 PM
while I am for the decriminalizing of it, I am not for the regulating and taxing of it.

Compromise? Don't put people in jail for marijuana possession ... just assess fines & the fines go into the Medicaid funds :-) Sort of like a parking ticket?

But if intoxicated, then DUI and treat like a DUI for alcohol. 2 wks after smoking? Tough. If the driver was stopped or erratic behavior it's likely MJ or alcohol; if not alcohol, then likely the MJ.

Trafficking? A bigger fine. Forget about finding the sources, just assess the fines once it's on the street.

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 12:52 PM
"....especially people who aren't mature enough to make decisions based on what is good or bad for them or their future....."


When I wrote that, I had kids in mind. But I guess we should just let them have free reign and do whatever feels good, regardless of what is good for them. Kinda like legalizing kids 'sexting' in Vermont or where ever it was...

Why do I sometimes wonder what is wrong with our society...it's so clear...

WRL
02-24-2010, 12:56 PM
I'm gonna call BS.

There are people that don't smoke it because it's bad or because they are told that it is bad. It has a stigma, or a taboo about it. After it is legal for a little while, it will lose that taboo and people who wouldn't have tried it before because it is illegal and 'bad' will now do so, because it has lost it's shock value.

It's all about desensitization, the same as every other moral and ethical problem that we face as a society.

That's BS.....

Do you speed? EVER? Its illegal.....you most likely do it and if you say you DON"T, well frankly I don't believe that. WHY do you speed? Because you "want to"......

Does the fact it is "illegal" stop you from it? Not likely.....

The people that think it is "bad for you" are still gonna think its "bad".......

Do you think making it illegal to smoke cigarettes will reduce its "usage"? Not likely.....

Ever heard about Prohibition?? That's why they legalized it.....couldn't stop people from consuming so they legalized it and taxed the crap out of it. Same thing should happen for pot.

WRL

WRL
02-24-2010, 12:57 PM
When I wrote that, I had kids in mind. But I guess we should just let them have free reign and do whatever feels good, regardless of what is good for them. Kinda like legalizing kids 'sexting' in Vermont or where ever it was...

Why do I sometimes wonder what is wrong with our society...it's so clear...

HA HA HA>.....you can tell you are young and your kids are young.

Its called PARENTING.....

WRL

Koolaid
02-24-2010, 12:59 PM
I'm gonna call BS.

There are people that don't smoke it because it's bad or because they are told that it is bad. It has a stigma, or a taboo about it. After it is legal for a little while, it will lose that taboo and people who wouldn't have tried it before because it is illegal and 'bad' will now do so, because it has lost it's shock value.

It's all about desensitization, the same as every other moral and ethical problem that we face as a society.

The "stigma" is a lie. It has always been a lie. Even the old Reagan era studies that said it killed large amounts of brain cells were a lie. The idea isn't that we're making something bad suddenly legal. It's that we're making something that isn't that bad illegal.


When I wrote that, I had kids in mind. But I guess we should just let them have free reign and do whatever feels good, regardless of what is good for them. Kinda like legalizing kids 'sexting' in Vermont or where ever it was...

Why do I sometimes wonder what is wrong with our society...it's so clear...

Legalization doesn't mean they are handing it out in the schools. Having it under prohibition only makes it easier for kids to get. Drug dealers don't ask for your ID to check your age.

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 01:00 PM
There is a big difference between speeding and smoking pot, but if you don't see it, then I can't explain it to you.

If it is legalized, I guaran damn tee you that usage will go up.


And I think I'll ignore the parenting comment and not take it as the insult that it seems.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Have a nice day.

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 01:03 PM
The "stigma" is a lie. It has always been a lie. Even the old Reagan era studies that said it killed large amounts of brain cells were a lie. The idea isn't that we're making something bad suddenly legal. It's that we're making something that isn't that bad illegal.

I was friends with a girl in middle school that was the smartest kid in school. She should have been valedictorian in high school. Instead, she started hanging out with potheads and graduated with C's. I'm sure that her parents were proud.:rolleyes:


Legalization doesn't mean they are handing it out in the schools. Having it under prohibition only makes it easier for kids to get. Drug dealers don't ask for your ID to check your age.

Do you think that drug dealers will just *poof* and go away if it becomes legal? If so, that idea is laughable at best...

Koolaid
02-24-2010, 01:06 PM
Personal experience isn't statistically significant. I hung out with potheads all the time in high school and I graduated #1 in my graduating class.


Do you think that drug dealers will just *poof* and go away if it becomes legal? If so, that idea is laughable at best...

Just as you believe use will go up, the amount of drug dealers would most certainly go down.

WRL
02-24-2010, 01:08 PM
There is a big difference between speeding and smoking pot, but if you don't see it, then I can't explain it to you.

If it is legalized, I guaran damn tee you that usage will go up.


And I think I'll ignore the parenting comment and not take it as the insult that it seems.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Have a nice day.

Is there? Both are illegal activities....

The parenting comment is not an insult. You are overly sensitive. You are young, your kids are young.

The values your children will have will for the most part come from YOU as a parent. But if you think you can "legislate" good behavior in children, you have a lot to learn.

The first time one of your little ones steals something or lies or does something that they damn well know they should not.

Its about teaching personal responsibilities.

I personally have never smoked pot or tried any drugs. I won't use someone else's prescription even if its just really strong headache medicine.

I also don't drink.

But I am NOT into "saving someone from themselves"....that is what is wrong with society.

You CHOSE to do something, you suffer the consequences. Plan and simple.

I don't care what you do as long as it doesn't interfere with what I do. You can get drunk every night until you are stupid drunk. I don't care. Just don't drive drunk. You do, then you should get the book thrown at you.

THAT simple concept is what will turn this country around whether it is politicians or citizens.

Be accountable for your OWN ACTIONS...

WRL

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 01:11 PM
Be accountable for your OWN ACTIONS...



I agree, 1,000,000%.

That's all I am going to say.

WRL
02-24-2010, 01:11 PM
Do you think that drug dealers will just *poof* and go away if it becomes legal? If so, that idea is laughable at best...

Don't you? I don't see anyone walking the streets at night selling "fruit".....or cars...or cigarettes......

Drug dealers get "customers" because those are the "stores" for illegal drugs.

You start selling pot in the liquor stores and guess what? No need for people to walk the streets and back alleys looking for a drug dealer...they just go to the "pot store" and buy it during store hours.

WRL

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 01:15 PM
Don't you? I don't see anyone walking the streets at night selling "fruit".....or cars...or cigarettes......

Drug dealers get "customers" because those are the "stores" for illegal drugs.

You start selling pot in the liquor stores and guess what? No need for people to walk the streets and back alleys looking for a drug dealer...they just go to the "pot store" and buy it during store hours.

WRL


I thought earlier someone on this very thread said that it wasn't the back alleys and dark streets where you can buy it now. Which way is it?:confused:

Hmmm. Let's think about this. You can go buy weed at the weed store for $10 plus all the ridiculous taxes that the govt will impose. OR....you could go to that 'back alley' (or not, depending on who you ask:rolleyes:) and get it for $5(Like they already are). What's a pothead to do?

edit- I know the prices aren't right, but I wouldn't know...

Koolaid
02-24-2010, 01:18 PM
That was me who said it. I live in Canada. It's different up here. It has already been decriminalized, but we haven't gone all the way yet.

As for that...if it's legal you grow a plant in your garden. If I want cheap liquor I put on a batch of wine. I don't go find a bootlegger.

TCFarmer
02-24-2010, 01:23 PM
It's not like you have to walk into some sketchy part of town and worry for your life. I can walk up the street in any neighbor hood and pick up a bag.



In Olympia, WA you can even buy from a member of the City Council.

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/02/23/1149118/olympia-councilman-hyer-charged.html

WRL
02-24-2010, 01:38 PM
I thought earlier someone on this very thread said that it wasn't the back alleys and dark streets where you can buy it now. Which way is it?:confused:

Hmmm. Let's think about this. You can go buy weed at the weed store for $10 plus all the ridiculous taxes that the govt will impose. OR....you could go to that 'back alley' (or not, depending on who you ask:rolleyes:) and get it for $5(Like they already are). What's a pothead to do?

edit- I know the prices aren't right, but I wouldn't know...

You can buy it everywhere. BUT you are primarily going to buy it where the "buying" would be discrete. That's why they have undercover cops.

Well, got news for you. If its legal at $10 (plus tax) its likely they are paying $100 for it illegally. Drug dealers are the ultimate business men......buy low sell high.....

If its legal, and you are a "user", why not just go pull a pod off of one of your plants? Or have a friend bring over a joint when they come over to watch the game with you?

If the "gov't taxes" were such a hinderance, why isn't there more "black market" alcohol and tobacco outlets for them?

My boyfriend chews.....he pays like $7 a can for it. I would bet at least $4 is various taxes. But if it were illegal, the street rate would be 10x that amount I would bet.

WRL

YardleyLabs
02-24-2010, 01:51 PM
I agree with Ducknwork that usage would increase if marijuana were legal. Even with taxation, I also suspect that legalization would bring prices down simply because of competition with home grown. It's a lot easier to grow "grass" than it is to brew moonshine of even grow a lawn. And while it was easy to buy grass with no difficulty at all when I was in college, it's a little more difficult now that I am 60+. In college, grass was delivered to my door much like pizza. But for liquor I had to walk a mile and then convince someone to buy for me. Today, I would much rather drop by the liquor store, especially since most of those selling grass are younger than my children. The combination of lower prices and greater convenience would definitely increase use. Despite this the benefit of legalization seem pretty compelling to me. Decriminalizing use is not sufficient. Saying that it is legal to have and use marijuana but illegal to sell it is simply idiotic.

Buzz
02-24-2010, 02:12 PM
Saying that it is legal to have and use marijuana but illegal to sell it is simply idiotic.


Correct. It just perpetuates the black market.

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 02:26 PM
You can buy it everywhere. BUT you are primarily going to buy it where the "buying" would be discrete. That's why they have undercover cops.

Well, got news for you. If its legal at $10 (plus tax) its likely they are paying $100 for it illegally. Drug dealers are the ultimate business men......buy low sell high.....

And the 'ultimate businessman' would probably sell his product at a price that it would sell at...So they would have to choose between selling under the legal price or finding some real work. Or just robbing your house and selling the stuff to a pawn shop. BTW, what do you base your opinion on that it would be more expensive to buy it off the street?

If its legal, and you are a "user", why not just go pull a pod off of one of your plants? Do you really think that if the govt is taxing pot sales, they will allow you to grow it for free in your yard? Oh...you mean like they don't mind if you make moonshine...gotcha.:rolleyes:Or have a friend bring over a joint when they come over to watch the game with you?

If the "gov't taxes" were such a hinderance, why isn't there more "black market" alcohol and tobacco outlets for them?

I know plenty of folks that participate in the 'black market' for alcohol. Maybe not in the Pac NW, but in NC...some folks just gotta have that shine...

My boyfriend chews.....he pays like $7 a can for it. I would bet at least $4 is various taxes. But if it were illegal, the street rate would be 10x that amount I would bet. Why?

WRL


.....................

Matt McKenzie
02-24-2010, 02:29 PM
ducknwork,
I don't want to come across as attacking your position, because you are certainly entitled to it, but do people get drunk and drive forklifts where you work? Alcohol is legal. If they don't drink and drive forklifts, why would they smoke pot and drive forklifts? Just curious as to the logic.

I find it interesting that most here support legalization. I think most of us would agree that this is mostly a conservative crowd, but most of us fall on the side of legalization. What does that say? I'm not sure, but it's something to think about. It seems that many of us who strongly disagree about foreign policy and most social issues are aligned on this one. Common ground?

WRL
02-24-2010, 02:39 PM
.....................

Firstly, the chew would be considerably less because it is taxed extremely high. YOu can get it much cheaper on the Indian Res. If it were illegal, it reduces the "legal" avenues to obtain it. Therefore, less suppliers, higher price.

Why wouldn't the government allow you to grow it for free? Is it against the law to grow tobacco? Don't think so.

Would it be more expensive to buy it off the street? Maybe maybe not but the "illegal" avenues of obtaining it now is way more expensive then buying it currently from someone with a license to sell. Just not very many folks with a "license to sell".

WRL

Sabireley
02-24-2010, 02:39 PM
ducknwork,
I find it interesting that most here support legalization. I think most of us would agree that this is mostly a conservative crowd, but most of us fall on the side of legalization. What does that say? I'm not sure, but it's something to think about. It seems that many of us who strongly disagree about foreign policy and most social issues are aligned on this one. Common ground?

There is somewhat of a libertarian bent in this crowd. Fiscally conservative, socially "hands off". Foreign policy is another matter, but only the most dogmatic agree with 100% of any platform.

dnf777
02-24-2010, 02:40 PM
I'm gonna call BS.

There are people that don't smoke it because it's bad or because they are told that it is bad. It has a stigma, or a taboo about it. After it is legal for a little while, it will lose that taboo and people who wouldn't have tried it before because it is illegal and 'bad' will now do so, because it has lost it's shock value.

It's all about desensitization, the same as every other moral and ethical problem that we face as a society.

Hmmmm....
Smoking cigarettes is legal.
I have no urge to run out and buy a pack of Marlboros just because I can.
I don't know how anyone can look at the havoc that alcohol reaps on society, then think maryjane is a bad thing! Plus, its all natural, so it can't be bad, right? :rolleyes:

Franco
02-24-2010, 03:00 PM
Not attacking Ducknwood but your assessment is way off base.

It is the Taboo factor that attracts some teens to pot. If decriminalized or legalized, the mystic would be gone.

Todays teens prefer liquor because the smoking of anything, being tobacco or pot is not cool.

If a 21 year old can buy beer or booze than they certainly should have the right to buy pot.

But, my biggest concern is for the ailing that are forced on to perscription drugs with thier harsh and dangerous side effects when all they want is a simple herb that makes them feel much better, cost less and is much safer for them.

P S That forklift driver is going to be a heck of a lot more dangerous under the influence of booze, so maybe we should make that illegal. Besides, if the forklift driver were stoned, he would be driving it so slowly that everyone would have more then ample time to get out of the way!

Buzz
02-24-2010, 03:03 PM
Hmmmm....
Smoking cigarettes is legal.
I have no urge to run out and buy a pack of Marlboros just because I can.
I don't know how anyone can look at the havoc that alcohol reaps on society, then think maryjane is a bad thing! Plus, its all natural, so it can't be bad, right? :rolleyes:

Isn't alcohol naturally occurring? Yeast eat sugar, and what comes out the other end?

I don't like to think about that when I'm in the middle of a glass of nice wine.

WRL
02-24-2010, 03:05 PM
Not attacking Ducknwood but your assessment is way off base.

It is the Taboo factor that attracts some teens to pot. If decriminalized or legalized, the mystic would be gone.

Todays teens prefer liquor because the smoking of anything, being tobacco or pot is not cool.

If a 21 year old can buy beer or booze than they certainly should have the right to buy pot.

But, my biggest concern is for the ailing that are forced on to perscription drugs with thier harsh and dangerous side effects when all they want is a simple herb that makes them feel much better, cost less and is much safer for them.

In WA, pot is a prescription drug. The state does issue "growers licenses" and those individuals can grow and sell it.

Those who use it medicinally might smoke it but often put it in foods (yes, including brownies ;) ) but they also make a butter out of it.

WRL

dnf777
02-24-2010, 03:12 PM
Isn't alcohol naturally occurring? Yeast eat sugar, and what comes out the other end?

I don't like to think about that when I'm in the middle of a glass of nice wine.

yeah, I was just pokin' fun at the folks who always proclaim "its all natural"!

So is lightening, tornadoes, and great white sharks! I prefer a glass of wine too.

Franco
02-24-2010, 03:18 PM
In WA, pot is a prescription drug. The state does issue "growers licenses" and those individuals can grow and sell it.

Those who use it medicinally might smoke it but often put it in foods (yes, including brownies ;) ) but they also make a butter out of it.

WRL

I understand that there are 10 states that are on the verge of making medical MJ legal. However, none are in the bible belt (deep south). Too much hysteria and false impressions to make it happen down here anytime soon.

I guess down here, we would rather those that could benefit from it suffer instead. All the while making them take synthetic drugs with side effects so sever that many would rather be dead.

sometimes a great notion
02-24-2010, 06:27 PM
Actually there are no liscenses to grow pot in washington to sell to others. You can get your mmj card like I have. You give the pot to other med patients and if they want to make a donation to the provider they can.

I grow, for myself and a few others. It is NOT EASY MONEY like people think it is. I have to be on top of everything in my grow area. I have to know botany like I know my parents. I can get a host of problems overnite if I dont watch them like a hawk. I nearly lost a crop in Janurary because I was in the hospital for my second liver resection. I am a stage 4 colon cancer patient going into my second year of Chemo soon.

I do smoke everyday after work, I harm no one. There has never ever been a documented case of a death caused by MJ.

I am for decriminalization totally, But I do not want legalization and have it sold in liquor stores, no quality control.

I don't trust the state to buy or grow their own to sell in liquor stores, to0 much liability there too.

I believe in dispensaries for mmj users here, Oregon is going to be voting on them this fall, and WA State is gathering signatures for ballot this fall. Our Govenor is raising taxes to coveer a budget shortfall. There is a solution in front of her face but she wont go behind the feds to legalize it. But the 10th ammendment to the constitution gives states the right to govern themselves. It is said here that having dispensaries here in WA state would generate over 300 million dollars for the state coffers.

A great read for anyone is by Jack Herer called "The emperor wears no clothes" Also the MSNBC channel is a show called "Marijuana INC" They show it pretty regularly, another is called "Union and the business behind getting high", and "Super High Me" You can rent the latter of the two on Netflix.

The fastest growing segment of pot smokers are now the children of the 60's, If you are a pot smoker or a cannabis consumer like myself, toke on.

Franco
02-24-2010, 06:51 PM
Actually there are no liscenses to grow pot in washington to sell to others. You can get your mmj card like I have. You give the pot to other med patients and if they want to make a donation to the provider they can.

I grow, for myself and a few others. It is NOT EASY MONEY like people think it is. I have to be on top of everything in my grow area. I have to know botany like I know my parents. I can get a host of problems overnite if I dont watch them like a hawk. I nearly lost a crop in Janurary because I was in the hospital for my second liver resection. I am a stage 4 colon cancer patient going into my second year of Chemo soon.

I do smoke everyday after work, I harm no one. There has never ever been a documented case of a death caused by MJ.

I am for decriminalization totally, But I do not want legalization and have it sold in liquor stores, no quality control.

I don't trust the state to buy or grow their own to sell in liquor stores, to0 much liability there too.

I believe in dispensaries for mmj users here, Oregon is going to be voting on them this fall, and WA State is gathering signatures for ballot this fall. Our Govenor is raising taxes to coveer a budget shortfall. There is a solution in front of her face but she wont go behind the feds to legalize it. But the 10th ammendment to the constitution gives states the right to govern themselves. It is said here that having dispensaries here in WA state would generate over 300 million dollars for the state coffers.

A great read for anyone is by Jack Herer called "The emperor wears no clothes" Also the MSNBC channel is a show called "Marijuana INC" They show it pretty regularly, another is called "Union and the business behind getting high", and "Super High Me" You can rent the latter of the two on Netflix.

The fastest growing segment of pot smokers are now the children of the 60's, If you are a pot smoker or a cannabis consumer like myself, toke on.

That is one brave post and no greater truth has been spoken on this thread! It is people like you that will eventually get through a few thick skulls. In the meantime, thousands will suffer because of bad laws.

Hang in there and fire it up if that makes you feel human.

sometimes a great notion
02-24-2010, 08:30 PM
I have logged about 5000 hours on this subject and I have not even hit the tip of the ice berg.

Big Pharma is so opposed to the legalization it makes my head spin. I, myself can only take natural pain meds like morphine, I take anything else and the vomiting and the nausea starts with in minutes. My last round of chemo was so bad even with smoke that I ended up with a bulging hernia. That was repaired during the liver op.
It's funny that the only legal pot farm is in Mississppi.

My boyfriend is now one month free of alcohol, he has lost weight, and he is sleeping much better and his blood pressure has gone down 40 points due to toking everynight after work.
He is less aggitated at people at work and his general well being is so much better now.

I really dont want the state to get involved in pot sales at all. Would they grow it themselves or would they buy from suppliers?

I know that if I go into a liquor store and buy a zip of OG KUSH or white widow am I really getting that strain or is the state just saying that just to make a sale. How do I know if it is not laced with something like glass, There is a problem with that in the UK. Is the state going to have technicians test every single bud for foreign material? Dont think so.

I know that If I became a provider to a dispensary, and provide high quality with good thc levels and CBD percentages are way up there on a consistant basis, I could quit my job and hire 10 people with full benefits.

You want to learn more? go to rollitup.org

and drug dealers are not usually found in the back alleys, and it may be more than 10 dollars a gram which comes out to about 280 dollars a zip for regs, and if you want to go up to mmj its gonna cost you about 300 to 450 a zip depending on the strain. OG Kush is 425 a zip and that is if its grown hydro.

The work on trimming and manicuring is a very long and tedious job, It will take me about 4 hours to do one plant and maybe get 2-3 ounces. Take in my electricity bill, my water and my supplies that I need every month, I need to dump a lot onto the market to cover my costs and make a bit to pay myself for my time.

DSO
02-24-2010, 08:54 PM
Where do all the illegal weed dealers go once it becomes legal and regulated. The ones I know are not real big on rules and structure and stuff.. But I suppose once it becomes legal they'll all will rent a store front , hang a shingle, do some advertising on a local radio station to build their business and pay the appropriate taxes...:rolleyes:. Ducknwork has got it right. The problems may change but will persist and likely increase... but hey if there is $$$ in it for the government, nothing is out of the question.

Danny

dnf777
02-24-2010, 09:22 PM
Where do all the illegal weed dealers go once it becomes legal and regulated.

Danny

How did prohibition work out? Where did all the moonshiners go? Oh yeah, they formed NASCAR and are millionaires making money off beer drinkers! ;-)

ducknwork
02-24-2010, 10:26 PM
Firstly, the chew would be considerably less because it is taxed extremely high. Didn't you just say that it would be 10x the price if it was sold illegally?

Why wouldn't the government allow you to grow it for free? Is it against the law to grow tobacco? Don't think so. How does the govt feel about you making your own alcohol? That's what I thought.

Would it be more expensive to buy it off the street? Maybe maybe not but the "illegal" avenues of obtaining it now is way more expensive then buying it currently from someone with a license to sell. Just not very many folks with a "license to sell".

WRL

As far as your comment that anyone who would do it is doing it already, after thinking about it more, I realize that is simply not true. There are plenty of people who have jobs with a drug free policy and that is the only reason that they do not smoke pot. If it were legalized, they would be all over it like white on rice. Unless businesses still attempted to keep the drug free policy, well, until the ACLU filed a lawsuit on behalf of the potheads who were discriminated against for not being hired on account of their drug use. If someone I work with smokes on the weekend and has an accident on Monday, they will be tested. If pot stays in your system for 27 days, (like someone else said) then how will HR know if they smoked at lunch or before work or last week? So they test positive and get canned. The ACLU comes to their defense and they get their job back and everyone knows they can smoke at lunch because nobody will know when they did it. Sounds like an awesome idea.:rolleyes:

There is NO room for drugs in the workplace, but if they are legal, it will be discrimination to not hire someone who uses. That's a problem.

WRL
02-25-2010, 12:07 AM
As far as your comment that anyone who would do it is doing it already, after thinking about it more, I realize that is simply not true. There are plenty of people who have jobs with a drug free policy and that is the only reason that they do not smoke pot. If it were legalized, they would be all over it like white on rice. Unless businesses still attempted to keep the drug free policy, well, until the ACLU filed a lawsuit on behalf of the potheads who were discriminated against for not being hired on account of their drug use. If someone I work with smokes on the weekend and has an accident on Monday, they will be tested. If pot stays in your system for 27 days, (like someone else said) then how will HR know if they smoked at lunch or before work or last week? So they test positive and get canned. The ACLU comes to their defense and they get their job back and everyone knows they can smoke at lunch because nobody will know when they did it. Sounds like an awesome idea.:rolleyes:

There is NO room for drugs in the workplace, but if they are legal, it will be discrimination to not hire someone who uses. That's a problem.

If you are going to quote me, quote the whole thing.

Something that is illegal will be MORE MONEY because there are less avenues to get the product. Common sense logic there.

You keep stating "how's the government feel about making your own alcohol....." well, I guess they are fine about it. The Pac NW is the "microbrew" capital of the world...so to speak. You can brew whatever you want and there are stores that will help you do it. There are even places you can go to brew and store your "special" blends. So I guess you didn't know that huh? Your logic is flawed using that argument.

The ACLU and drugs in the work place comment has already been addressed by SEVERAL people here. You seem to have a hard time comprehending it......

Zero tolerance work places are simply that. Zero tolerance. That includes ALCOHOL which is legal.....don't you get that???

Numerous people have already addressed and readdressed the length of time pot stays in the system and the connection with the work place. I see no reason to rehash it. Feel free to continue questioning it but if you reread the thread, a multitude of people have already tried to make you understand.

WRL

DSO
02-25-2010, 05:50 AM
How did prohibition work out? Where did all the moonshiners go? Oh yeah, they formed NASCAR and are millionaires making money off beer drinkers! ;-)

Do you really think if marijuana is legalized it will follow the same path as the end of prohibition... really? Not sure I'd sign off on that one triple 7. What the hell am I talking about... If properly regulated there would be little impact at all. We'll just have to change the ATF into the ATFW (bureau of alcohol / tobacco / firearms and weed) ;)

Don't change the stationary yet regards,

Danny

Koolaid
02-25-2010, 05:58 AM
Do you really think if marijuana is legalized it will follow the same path as the end of prohibition

I'd say the chances are pretty good

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 06:41 AM
1.If you are going to quote me, quote the whole thing.

Something that is illegal will be MORE MONEY because there are less avenues to get the product. Common sense logic there.

2.You keep stating "how's the government feel about making your own alcohol....." well, I guess they are fine about it. The Pac NW is the "microbrew" capital of the world...so to speak. You can brew whatever you want and there are stores that will help you do it. There are even places you can go to brew and store your "special" blends. So I guess you didn't know that huh? Your logic is flawed using that argument.

3.The ACLU and drugs in the work place comment has already been addressed by SEVERAL people here. You seem to have a hard time comprehending it......

4.Zero tolerance work places are simply that. Zero tolerance. That includes ALCOHOL which is legal.....don't you get that???

5.Numerous people have already addressed and readdressed the length of time pot stays in the system and the connection with the work place. I see no reason to rehash it. Feel free to continue questioning it but if you reread the thread, a multitude of people have already tried to make you understand.

WRL

1. Sure, I'll quote the whole thing.

Firstly, the chew would be considerably less because it is taxed extremely high. YOu can get it much cheaper on the Indian Res. If it were illegal, it reduces the "legal" avenues to obtain it. Therefore, less suppliers, higher price.

Okay, you say less suppliers=higher price. So, more suppliers=lower price. Also, competition=you lower your price to continue to have sales. Now, all of a sudden, you have all of these 'legal avenues' to buy pot in addition to all of the illegal avenues that we currently have. Obviously, the illegal drug dealers aren't going to just give up and go get a job. They will keep selling, but they will have to sell below the price of the legal dealers just to stay in business. They will probably be forced to dilute the product and that could make it unsafe.

2. Microbrewing is totally different than distilling. Ask how the govt feels about moonshine. Maybe you guys don't have it up there.

The whole point of making moonshine is to escape laws, taxes and regulations. ........Despite all that has changed about moonshining in the last 200 years, one thing remains the same -- it is illegal. You might be wondering about homebrewed beer and amateur winemaking -- these activities were made legal in the 1970s, but they can only be done in small quantities (if you're supplying half the bars in the city with your "homebrew," the government is probably going to get suspicious). Homebrewing is a different activity from distilling alcohol, and distilling is definitely illegal in any amount. The reason distilling at home is illegal is because it's too easy to make a mistake and create a harmful product. Permits and licenses are required so that the government can make sure the alcohol being produced is safe. Plus, the Feds want to get their tax money.
However, moonshiners are rarely arrested or charged with making illegal liquor. The real charges come from tax evasion. A new federal push to crack down on moonshiners has also started using money laundering charges against moonshiners and their suppliers. A money-laundering conviction can lead to a prison term of 15 years, as opposed to five years for moonshining. Many moonshiners have their property seized by the government when they are caught, because tax evasion and moonshining convictions also result in heavy fines. The property is seized to make sure the fines can be paid.
http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/moonshine5.htm

So the illegal dealers will not be no longer criminals, they will just be charged with something different. See above^^

3. The first time the ACLU was mentioned on this thread was by me. If I am wrong, please point it out...I'll be waiting.

4.Yes, alcohol is illegal at work in you system. If there is alcohol in your system, then you have consumed it recently. If you have weed in your system, you may or may not have consumed it recently. SO, if there is alcohol in your system, there is a good chance that it is still affecting you. Zero tolerance, you're fired. If there is weed in your system (which you would have the right to smoke) who knows if you did it before work or last week? If there is the possibility that you smoked last week (which you would have the right to do) and you get fired, your 'rights' would be violated as an employee and you will have the ACLU on your side. Probably the NAACP too...If you are not hired because you test positive, then you will have been discriminated against. They can't not hire you for doing something legal.

5. Have you been smoking? I reread the thread and I believe that there is ONE post that deals with the length of time it stays in your system and it wasn't even directed at me...Just so you don't take the word of some pothead as gospel, here is a link to some facts about the subject:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_does_marijuana_stay_in_your_system




Now, please think before you type. You have said soooo many things that are inconsistent or flat out wrong that I have let slip. That makes your argument less than credible.

Franco
02-25-2010, 06:49 AM
Ducknwork, are you against its use for medicinal reasons?

Koolaid
02-25-2010, 07:00 AM
5. Have you been smoking? I reread the thread and I believe that there is ONE post that deals with the length of time it stays in your system and it wasn't even directed at me...Just so you don't take the word of some pothead as gospel, here is a link to some facts about the subject:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_does_marijuana_stay_in_your_system





I'd just like to point out the irony that the majority of that page is potheads experienced in trying to dodge drug tests.

Either way, you're only real argument is that it will cause problems with drug testing at the workplace. I'm sure it will until better methods of detection are found. Still don't think that's a good enough reason to sent 700 000+ people a year to jail for possession crimes.

badbullgator
02-25-2010, 07:09 AM
5. Have you been smoking? I reread the thread and I believe that there is ONE post that deals with the length of time it stays in your system and it wasn't even directed at me...Just so you don't take the word of some pothead as gospel, here is a link to some facts about the subject:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_does_marijuana_stay_in_your_system







Uh….I believe that pothead was me. Thank you very much. You can take my word or not but I assure you I am an expert on drug testing. I spent many years doing it in one of the premier test facilities in the world. Testified many times as an “expert witness” as well. Nice that you feel wickipedia is a better “reference…cough, cough” than a pothead on this thread. Facts on wiki are questinable at best....although in this case pretty accurate

sometimes a great notion
02-25-2010, 08:05 AM
You can buy all sorts of growing equipment at Lowes, HD or ace hardware. But please dont use Miracle Grow plant food. You can buy anything on the internet and have it shipped to your door, including seeds. Pot stays in your system about 30 days, but the skinnier you are the faster it leaves. Pot clings to fat cells, so how about using synthetic urine to pass that next test?

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 08:30 AM
Ducknwork, are you against its use for medicinal reasons?

No. I don't see any problem with LEGITIMATE,responsible, regulated, and prescribed use by those who need it to alleviate pain.

I DO see a problem with making it readily available to the general public. I don't see how anything good can come out of that.

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 08:31 AM
Uh….I believe that pothead was me. Thank you very much. You can take my word or not but I assure you I am an expert on drug testing. I spent many years doing it in one of the premier test facilities in the world. Testified many times as an “expert witness” as well. Nice that you feel wickipedia is a better “reference…cough, cough” than a pothead on this thread. Facts on wiki are questinable at best....although in this case pretty accurate

Didn't mean any offense to you bbg, sorry if I was out of line. And I only used the wiki source because it blatantly spelled out what I was trying to say.

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 08:34 AM
I'd just like to point out the irony that the majority of that page is potheads experienced in trying to dodge drug tests.

Either way, you're only real argument is that it will cause problems with drug testing at the workplace. I'm sure it will until better methods of detection are found. Still don't think that's a good enough reason to sent 700 000+ people a year to jail for possession crimes.

So we will send them to jail for tax evasion instead. What did that solve?

I think that we should just legalize everything that we can not stop people from doing. Why don't we let all the mexicans come across the border legally and give citizenship to the ones already here. After all, they are going to do it anyway, regardless of legality. How do you guys feel about that?

WRL
02-25-2010, 09:03 AM
Ducknwork,

You are entitled to your opinion. Even it it is wrong.

LMAO....he he he.....

WRL

dnf777
02-25-2010, 09:21 AM
I DO see a problem with making it readily available to the general public. I don't see how anything good can come out of that.

Just curious Duck, do you think alcohol should be banned again? Surely you don't see any good coming out of 20,000 traffic deaths and countless amounts of domestic abuse attributable to alcohol? Not to mention cirrhosis and the other ailments that befall alcoholics?

Koolaid
02-25-2010, 09:22 AM
So we will send them to jail for tax evasion instead. What did that solve?

I think that we should just legalize everything that we can not stop people from doing. Why don't we let all the mexicans come across the border legally and give citizenship to the ones already here. After all, they are going to do it anyway, regardless of legality. How do you guys feel about that?

Tax evasion...what does decriminalizing have to do with tax evasion.
Also, 700 000+ in jail for possession means we are stopping them. They have no trouble pouring in resources to stop them. But why? Why are we stopping them? What are they doing wrong enough to require a jail sentence?

Julie R.
02-25-2010, 10:30 AM
Personally I think we should just legalize all the popular street drugs and use the tax profits for addiction programs for the ones that are truly addictive. It won't happen, I know, but certainly the more I read and learn about pot, the more I think it most certainly should be legalized. If it was, I have no doubt a more accurate test that could tell whether or not the pot in one's system was from 2 weeks, 2 days or two hours ago would be rapidly devised. Right now there's probably no market for such a test (bbg correct me if that's wrong) thus no incentive to spend research money developing one.

But the main reason I think pot should be legalized: I've known plenty of potheads, and a lot of drunks. I've never known or heard of any stoner that robbed a liquor store or beat his wife. I was married to an alcoholic who was a mean, violent drunk. I, as well as probably everyone on this board, know people who've themselves or had someone close to them, be traumatized or killed from alcoholic mayhem, whether from a DWI or domestic violence. Alcohol is far more deadly than weed.

ErinsEdge
02-25-2010, 10:57 AM
I say legalize it, tax the hell out of it and use THAT to pay for health care reform.....:smile:
Best idea yet.


I have no doubt a more accurate test that could tell whether or not the pot in one's system was from 2 weeks, 2 days or two hours ago would be rapidly devised. The screening tests are based on sensitivity. The more you smoke, the longer it stays in your system. They adjust the sensitivity level to what is failure of a test. Then you would have a confirmatory test that is more specific and quantitative. We had to do a whole drug screen work-up on any work related accidents (they brought them to the hospital-hundreds of companies) and positives got sent out for confirmation. This is pretty standard procedure.

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 11:05 AM
Ducknwork,

You are entitled to your opinion. Even it it is wrong.

LMAO....he he he.....

WRL

As are you...

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 11:08 AM
Just curious Duck, do you think alcohol should be banned again? Surely you don't see any good coming out of 20,000 traffic deaths and countless amounts of domestic abuse attributable to alcohol? Not to mention cirrhosis and the other ailments that befall alcoholics?

I think that we should heavily enforce the laws that we already have.

You really don't think that legalizing pot will have NO negative consequences? You really don't think that there are no deaths that are weed related? I must be imagining it every time I hear of drug related robberies/murders etc on the news.

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 11:15 AM
Tax evasion...what does decriminalizing have to do with tax evasion.
Also, 700 000+ in jail for possession means we are stopping them. They have no trouble pouring in resources to stop them. But why? Why are we stopping them? What are they doing wrong enough to require a jail sentence?Ummm. Breaking the law?:confused:

If you'll read the other posts, you would see. I'll just spell it out for you to save you the trouble. You can thank me later.;)

1. Pot is legalized.
2. Drug dealers are still going to sell it illegally, probably at a lower price/quality than the govt so they can stay in business.
3. Illegal drug dealers won't be reporting their income from selling pot and therefore, will not be paying the required govt taxes on it.
4. I suspect that the govt would be more interested in arresting people that don't pay taxes than they are interested in arresting potheads. The charge would be tax evasion...






Hey, what's going on here anyway? When Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris got attacked, at least the bad guys waited and attacked one at a time...:p

BonMallari
02-25-2010, 11:15 AM
I am not sure what scares me more : the thought of my son's school bus driver being a drunk or his driver having smoked a rope before driving him home

when I worked in golf course management one of my responsibilities was to drive any employee to get them tested for drugs/alcohol in the event of any industrial accident, amazing how many of our staff failed those tests...fast forward a couple of yrs and I am playing a round of golf at the TPC course in Las Vegas and along comes a maintenance guy around a corner and smashes into my golf cart, separating my shoulder and barely missed pinning my leg between the two vehicles...after a couple of months of litigation my lawyer and I asked for the drug testing report of the maintenance worker..they settled later that afternoon..

for the record I was even par on the back nine going to the 18th and would have posted a cool 76 :D

Franco
02-25-2010, 11:18 AM
I think that we should heavily enforce the laws that we already have.

You really don't think that legalizing pot will have NO negative consequences? You really don't think that there are no deaths that are weed related? I must be imagining it every time I hear of drug related robberies/murders etc on the news.

Compared to booze, there is NO COMPARISON. I think it hypocritical to justify the legality of booze over MJ. In fact, as a society we would be better off getting some of the boozers off the suds and smoking MJ.

I have yet to read one valid point against Decriminalzation. There are people suffering and the Draconian laws on the books are Medival at best.

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 11:19 AM
Bon, potheads don't do that sort of thing...They just sit at home peacefully eating cheetos and staring at the lights.:rolleyes:

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 11:20 AM
Compared to booze, there is NO COMPARISON. I think it hypocritical to justify the legality of booze over MJ. In fact, as a society we would be better off getting some of the boozers off the suds and smoking MJ.

I have yet to read one valid point against Decriminalzation. There are people suffering and the Draconian laws on the books are Medival at best.

If your issue is people suffering, legalize it for medicinal use. Did you miss my answer about that earlier?

badbullgator
02-25-2010, 11:29 AM
Best idea yet.

The screening tests are based on sensitivity. The more you smoke, the longer it stays in your system. They adjust the sensitivity level to what is failure of a test. Then you would have a confirmatory test that is more specific and quantitative. We had to do a whole drug screen work-up on any work related accidents (they brought them to the hospital-hundreds of companies) and positives got sent out for confirmation. This is pretty standard procedure.

I see what your getting at but you theory is flawed. Different people metabolize it at different rates. Different types of pot have higher or lower levels of THC. Current test are in the 99% specific and 99% sensitivity rates. Using GC/MS to confirm quantization is not a problem. The problem is always going to be WHEN you consumed it and no sensitivity or specificity will ever be able to do that. Current cut off levels are 50 ng, so anything above that is positive, however, the some/most test are specific/sensitive enough that 0.05 ng could be picked up. If you smoked a join right now and had not smoked one ever before or at least did not have any in your system you would test negative if one was given in the next 24 hours.
Look at it like this;
Person A smokes a join of bunk weed. The THC level of this weed is low and person A’s THC level when tested is 55 ng.
Person B smokes high grade kind bud, a joint of this puts his level at 220 ng’s.
Now both person A and B both stop smoking. 10 days later person A has a level of 20 ng’s and is under the cutoff and therefore negative. Person B has a level of 65 and is still positive. Neither have smoked in over a week but one is still “under the influence” and the other is not.
By the same token (no pun);
2 people smoke a couple of joints of that same kind bud. Upon testing one, C, has a level of 270 ng’s while person D has a level of 500 ng’s. Subsequent testing 10 days later person C and D may have the same level, or person D may even have a lower level depending on the persons liver and the rate at which the metabolite is cleared form hir/her system. Some clear faster than others, people with excess fat take longer, again a function of the liver, than skinny people.
As far as workplace testing it is a joke any way. It might keep you from getting a job if you smoke on your own time and test positive before they hire you, but in most cases random testing is not done. Even for cause testing rarely results in a person being terminated OR having workers compensation turned down. In fact in all the cases I was involved in I NEVER saw one workers comp case that was lost by the THC positive employee, nor did I ever see anyone lose a termination cases, except where they had video evidence that the person was smoking pot on the job.
Hair testing? Don’t even go there. Way too much bias in that testing.


BTW-I have done 10,000's of confirmatory test that you sent off from the hospital labs, which are usually only equiped with immunoassy testing.

Franco
02-25-2010, 11:30 AM
If your issue is people suffering, legalize it for medicinal use. Did you miss my answer about that earlier?

Well, then you are for Decriminalization. That's a step in the right direction! I hope you would support any steps taken by your state's legislature in this movement.

I am currently dealing with two older family members who would benefit by Decrininalization in dealing with Cancer.

badbullgator
02-25-2010, 11:33 AM
If you'll read the other posts, you would see. I'll just spell it out for you to save you the trouble. You can thank me later.;)

1. Pot is legalized.
2. Drug dealers are still going to sell it illegally, probably at a lower price/quality than the govt so they can stay in business.
3. Illegal drug dealers won't be reporting their income from selling pot and therefore, will not be paying the required govt taxes on it.
4. I suspect that the govt would be more interested in arresting people that don't pay taxes than they are interested in arresting potheads. The charge would be tax evasion...






Hey, what's going on here anyway? When Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris got attacked, at least the bad guys waited and attacked one at a time...:p


So do you thing there is a huge moonshine industry out there. I know there is some, but no where near what you seem to think will be around with all the illegal pot dealers.
as far as tax evation goes or selling something Illegally those will still be crimes that should be enforced, just as moonshiners are if caught.

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 11:42 AM
So do you thing there is a huge moonshine industry out there. I know there is some, but no where near what you seem to think will be around with all the illegal pot dealers.


I bet there is more shine out there than you think...:cool: I would be willing to bet that pot is much more widespread than moonshine ever was. It is a whole lot easier to 'manufacture' and therefore more people can do it for themselves, unlike moonshine. Moonshine takes a lot of equipment, know how, and a place to hide your still. Not everybody has that laying around.


as far as tax evation goes or selling something Illegally those will still be crimes that should be enforced, just as moonshiners are if caught.

So we won't cut down much on arrests? We'll just charge them with something else.

badbullgator
02-25-2010, 11:54 AM
I bet there is more shine out there than you think...:cool: I would be willing to bet that pot is much more widespread than moonshine ever was. It is a whole lot easier to 'manufacture' and therefore more people can do it for themselves, unlike moonshine. Moonshine takes a lot of equipment, know how, and a place to hide your still. Not everybody has that laying around.



So we won't cut down much on arrests? We'll just charge them with something else.


I would disagree with not cutting down on arrest. Currently tax evation is the BIG charge they get large dealers on. Again using the moonshine example, it is illegal to make, sell, and buy. Now it is my understanding that in at least some places it is legal to make some shine for you personal use, but not for sale. Now I know several places to buy shine. I don;t do it because why would I want to go to jail for possession of shine when I can go to the store and buy an equal or better product legally? Why on earth would I want to go to some seedy nasy ganster to buy pot when I can go to the store and buy it? Lets see deal with a gang banger or other less that desirable person and take the chance of getting arrested in a raid on their place, robbed, shot, ripped off.....
Keep reading the number of people in jail for POSSESSION, not for dealing, for just having it. That is where you find the majority of the arrest, not dealers who are the ones would would be evading taxes. I know many, many, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals (heck even a cop or two) that smoke and guess what, none of them are dealing it,just smoking it. Were it legal none of those people would be getting arrested for possession and certianly not for taxes.

BTW- I know for a fact tobacco is not hard to grow either and yet I have NEVEr in my life seen a guy standing on the corner selling cigs.......poor argument

Koolaid
02-25-2010, 12:31 PM
ducknwork

You didn't say anything...I asked why what they were doing that was wrong...breaking the law isn't an answer to the question of decriminalizing it. Obviously if it's against the law they are breaking the law. It's a bad law that was put in for bad reasons. Laws change...societies evolve. Your only real argument against it is that testing for it is harder than alcohol. That's not a good enough reason in my books.

WRL
02-25-2010, 12:34 PM
I would disagree with not cutting down on arrest. Currently tax evation is the BIG charge they get large dealers on. Again using the moonshine example, it is illegal to make, sell, and buy. Now it is my understanding that in at least some places it is legal to make some shine for you personal use, but not for sale. Now I know several places to buy shine. I don;t do it because why would I want to go to jail for possession of shine when I can go to the store and buy an equal or better product legally? Why on earth would I want to go to some seedy nasy ganster to buy pot when I can go to the store and buy it? Lets see deal with a gang banger or other less that desirable person and take the chance of getting arrested in a raid on their place, robbed, shot, ripped off.....
Keep reading the number of people in jail for POSSESSION, not for dealing, for just having it. That is where you find the majority of the arrest, not dealers who are the ones would would be evading taxes. I know many, many, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals (heck even a cop or two) that smoke and guess what, none of them are dealing it,just smoking it. Were it legal none of those people would be getting arrested for possession and certianly not for taxes.

BTW- I know for a fact tobacco is not hard to grow either and yet I have NEVEr in my life seen a guy standing on the corner selling cigs.......poor argument

BBG,

STop trying to be logical!!!! He doesn't get it.

WRL

Franco
02-25-2010, 12:57 PM
I just got off the phone with my uncle. He was diagnosed with Panriactic (sp)Cancer last month. He has decided against Chimo therapy as he doesn't want to go through it then die. He's too far gone anyway for Chimo. His wish is to sit on the beach everyday and smoke pot. He hates the effects of the meds he is taking and decided to stop taking them. He told me last week that he hasn't smoked any MJ in decades, like around the late 50's(he was stationed in S Korea). I told him that he would have to move to California to do what he wants to do. He said, "F...that, when it gets too bad I'll just end it all".

Oh, and he wants his ashes spread on the TCU campus.

badbullgator
02-25-2010, 01:21 PM
ducknwork

You didn't say anything...I asked why what they were doing that was wrong...breaking the law isn't an answer to the question of decriminalizing it. Obviously if it's against the law they are breaking the law. It's a bad law that was put in for bad reasons. Laws change...societies evolve. Your only real argument against it is that testing for it is harder than alcohol. That's not a good enough reason in my books.


Much more to the point!
Exactly why should someone like myself be locked up just for having pot?
How does that serve society? How would I be hurting society by sitting on my back porch smoking a joint in the evening, going to bed and getting up the next mornig to go about my business? Please explain exactly how YOU feel that is damaging society or hurting anyone. Using your logic someone like myself, who has been a productive member of society all of their life, NEVER been in any trouble with the law, and is considered an upstanding citizen, should be locked up and/or otherwise penalized for doing something on my own time that in NO way affects anyone other than myself.

I await you best response and hope it will be better than you last that making something legal would increase the number of people who use it illegally…….
Are you sure your not high right now??????

Franco
02-25-2010, 01:30 PM
I found this site last month when I began researching the avaliblity of medical MJ. http://www.mpp.org/

Looks like there are many states on both coast moving to Decriminalize Medical MJ. For those of us that live in states controlled by bible thumpers, we are quite frankly, sh$t out of luck!

Cody Covey
02-25-2010, 01:43 PM
Much more to the point!
Exactly why should someone like myself be locked up just for having pot?
How does that serve society? How would I be hurting society by sitting on my back porch smoking a joint in the evening, going to bed and getting up the next mornig to go about my business? Please explain exactly how YOU feel that is damaging society or hurting anyone. Using your logic someone like myself, who has been a productive member of society all of their life, NEVER been in any trouble with the law, and is considered an upstanding citizen, should be locked up and/or otherwise penalized for doing something on my own time that in NO way affects anyone other than myself.

I await you best response and hope it will be better than you last that making something legal would increase the number of people who use it illegally…….
Are you sure your not high right now??????

Don't really have a bone in the fight either way but do you take this same stance with Coke and meth?

badbullgator
02-25-2010, 02:05 PM
Don't really have a bone in the fight either way but do you take this same stance with Coke and meth?

First off I feel there is a HUGE difference in marijuana vs cocaine and methamphetamines. One major one I would argue is the later two are highly addictive and most arguments lean towards pot not being addictive. Addicts can be and are a burden to society and often cannot control their desire for, and when they use their drug of choice. That is a problem. I have never known a pot user to be so addicted that they could not go without, feel the need to steal to afford their addiction, or sell their body to get their fix (not saying it never happens, but as a rule no). I do feel that people’s behaviors on the other two are completely different from someone on pot. I also feel that both cocaine, and with out a doubt meth are much more personally destructive and take a large toll on the user, but that part is a health issue and not a legal issue, substances should not be legal just “for your own good”. I am a big believer in personal responsibility and nobody needs to tell another what they can or cannot do to themselves.
All that said I do feel that ALL drugs should be legal and treated for what they are…a health issue and not a criminal issue. Criminal activities stemming from ones addiction are not necessarily justification for making that substance illegal or of course alcohol would be illegal. I am more concerned with marijuana being legalized than I am all other drugs.

ducknwork
02-25-2010, 02:29 PM
I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on this or cause you guys to waste anymore of yours on me. Nobody is changing positions and I have exhausted all of my points, so sorry you don't view them as valid, Koolaid. I don't view yours as valid either. WRL, I DO get it, I just don't agree and you obviously don't get that. BTW, I am still waiting for you to back up the stuff that you said earlier, rather than making snide remarks because you can't (BTW, silence speaks volumes)...I won't hold my breath, but I am sure that yall will hold it in after you puff away...

Light one up, pass it around, but just skip me when you are done with it.

WRL
02-25-2010, 03:18 PM
Ducknwork,

Yes silence does speak volumes. I don't need to post anything more. As there are several other people making the same points I have been trying to make.

So, no, you actually don't get it and you don't GET that you don't get it.

"There are none so blind as those that cannot see....."

I like to use dog analogies because they apply a lot in life.....

A failure to make progress with a dog is due to one of two reasons:

1) A failure to communicate and therefore make progress.

2) A individual too "freaking" stupid to get it.

Either way, they are washed and valuable time is spent elsewhere.

WRL

Denver
02-25-2010, 03:22 PM
I think that we should heavily enforce the laws that we already have.

You really don't think that legalizing pot will have NO negative consequences? You really don't think that there are no deaths that are weed related? I must be imagining it every time I hear of drug related robberies/murders etc on the news.

I get the feeling that you believe that pot is the same as other hardcore drugs, such as coke, meth and so forth. I would like to see the data, comparing "pot crimes" not drug crimes, to alcohol related crimes. I would bet that there is no comparison at all. I understand that pot is illegal, but i feel that it is far less destructive than alcohol. If pot gives people with serious medical issues some relief, than who am i to judge them. I say, make alcohol illegal and pot legal, for awhile and see what happens. Just my opinion!

dnf777
02-25-2010, 03:28 PM
If your issue is people suffering, legalize it for medicinal use. Did you miss my answer about that earlier?

What is "medicinal use"? People take LOTS of pills for anxiety, depression, adjustment disorders.... Would feeling depressed or anxious, or "up tight" after a bad day at work justify burning one as medicinal use? There are drug companies very happy (and very rich) because we justify popping prozac, zoloft, effexor, and ativan for those very reasons!

Reminds me of a good army buddy I knew who was Morman. He explained that they didn't drink alcohol, except for medicinal purposes. When asked, he told me it treated stress, anxiety, and depression!

Franco
02-25-2010, 06:26 PM
What is "medicinal use"? People take LOTS of pills for anxiety, depression, adjustment disorders.... Would feeling depressed or anxious, or "up tight" after a bad day at work justify burning one as medicinal use? There are drug companies very happy (and very rich) because we justify popping prozac, zoloft, effexor, and ativan for those very reasons!

Reminds me of a good army buddy I knew who was Morman. He explained that they didn't drink alcohol, except for medicinal purposes. When asked, he told me it treated stress, anxiety, and depression!

And, those Drug Companies are going to be pissed if MJ is Decriminalized and approved for "medicinal use". Better than pill popping, Doc?

There are abuses in everything and everywhere but, I don't understand how the legitimate use of it should be denied to those truly suffering.

dnf777
02-25-2010, 07:06 PM
And, those Drug Companies are going to be pissed if MJ is Decriminalized and approved for "medicinal use". Better than pill popping, Doc?

There are abuses in everything and everywhere but, I don't understand how the legitimate use of it should be denied to those truly suffering.

Franco,
Don't take me wrong, I was just posing the question. I bet we'd all be surprised how much lobby money was spent by pharma to keep MJ illegal. You're darn right it would dent their Prozac profits, and we just can't have any of that! Why grow a plant and roll your own, when you can give $150 per month to pharma for a pill? :rolleyes:

Franco
02-25-2010, 07:16 PM
Since you are an MD, I was looking for your opinion comparing the two, Pill Popping vs MJ. We both agree.:cool:

sometimes a great notion
02-25-2010, 08:10 PM
I guess I am just getting tired of people telling me all the time I can't do something that is good for me and my situation. Here take this and take that it will make you feel better, bs I say. I got a microwave that has all my meds on it, there must be 25 bottles of crap that makes me feel worse. The one thing that does make me feel better is illegal, makes me want to puke. Big pharma has their place in society, birth control pills and high blood pressure pills for example.

Its time we start a national inititave to legalize it. Most of the anti pot users are pretty much gone now and Harry Anslinger has been dead for years now.

If you don't want to smoke pot then don't, but dont legislate morality on me.
If kids are gonna smoke it they will find a way, but be suprised that they say to you that drinking that 12oz beer is worse for you and your health than their joint.

Like I said, there has been no documented case of dying from pot ever.
I would rather be riding in a car with a stoner than a drunk anyday.

If you really want to talk about tax evasion that dealers are getting away with, then how about all those Wall Street scumbags that took money from our pockets and lied and schemed about it. I am sure that there is some manual that coaches them on how to hide their money.

This thread is getting boring, really tell me why pot is illegal and why it should continue to be so.

dnf777
02-25-2010, 08:20 PM
Like I said, there has been no documented case of dying from pot ever.




One of my friends was laughing so hard, he sucked a nacho into his windpipe and nearly choked. Does that count? :(

sometimes a great notion
02-25-2010, 09:27 PM
hell that hurts sober!!!! I do have to admit that when I do make cannabutter I get way more wasted than toking up. It takes longer to get the effect but the effect lasts longer. I have made chocolate chip cookies with butter and did not get out of bed all day saturday. So overdosing is possible but death is unprobable.

Ken Bora
02-26-2010, 08:39 PM
O.K. Kids,
In case you need a reminder this is Two Thousand and Ten not Nineteen Hundred and when! If you all want to keep the youts off drugs you need not worry about your older brothers Bong. What you need to keep an eye on is Grandma’s medicine cabinet. The children of today are smoking less and less of everything. Smoking is dirty and smelly and unhealthy. Today’s youts are getting off on pharmaceuticals. They are safe and legal because they raided your prescription. Almost weekly here there is a rural drug store robbed ether when closed or open. I was chatting with a large animal vet the other day and they robbed his truck and got some type of horse tranquilizer. That blows my mind! You know how big horses are compared to a 80 pound pre-teen? I just cant imagine. These is a song you all need to check out, it is called underwear outside the pants by lazyboy. This guys rant is genius and pretty much mirrors my point of view.

Click- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ) volume up now, and please listen twice so you get the words

.

sometimes a great notion
02-26-2010, 08:56 PM
that is just sad :( Lucky my grand kids are in Knoxville, they would have a heyday with all the crap I have, but then again they cant read, nor are they taller than three feet. When they move back I am hoping I am done with all the meds I have to take. Nothing I have would get them high anyway unless you want to count anti nausea meds.

Leddyman
02-26-2010, 09:25 PM
I would hate to come to work and have a forklift hit me because the driver smoked up on the way to work just because it's legal. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's ethical. Yes, I know that you can't legislate morality, but what would be the advantages of legalizing it? Oh, we can collect tax money and some deadbeats would get out of jail. Great. Guess what folks, some things are more important than money! Condoning the behavior WILL make more people do it, especially people who aren't mature enough to make decisions based on what is good and bad for them or their future. It's already hard enough to raise good kids in our culture and this won't make it any easier.

Dude apparently you didn't get the memo. All forklift drivers currently smoke pot. That is why they are still driving a forklift. You are supposed to watching out for them. The forklift driver is going to work every day going "I hope some uptight dillweed doesn't jump out in front of my forklift today." :cool:

What a relief to know we have people like you to make decisions for us people that are too stupid to make the right choice. You sound just like the Kenyan. Maybe you could publish a short pamphlet with pictures so we could understand it.

Your kids are already smoking it. You want they should go to jail?

P.S. I do not currently smoke pot, but I did when I was younger.

PPS> I can't believe I agree with DNF777...I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Leddyman
02-26-2010, 09:34 PM
When I wrote that, I had kids in mind. But I guess we should just let them have free reign and do whatever feels good, regardless of what is good for them. Kinda like legalizing kids 'sexting' in Vermont or where ever it was...

Why do I sometimes wonder what is wrong with our society...it's so clear...

It's called parents Each kid is issued 2. You get to do it for yours. If people aren't doing the parenting then the problem ain't pot. it's parents. Why don't we put them in jail instead of the potheads.

JDogger
02-26-2010, 10:36 PM
It's called parents Each kid is issued 2. You get to do it for yours. If people aren't doing the parenting then the problem ain't pot. it's parents. Why don't we put them in jail instead of the potheads.

I love it when you eat each other.

JD

Hew
02-27-2010, 02:38 AM
I love it when you eat each other.

JD
LOL. JD gingerly sticks his toe in the water of this thread.

An 11 page thread on the chronic and JD ain't postin'?!? Go ahead, dude, you know it's killin' ya. Let it all out. Tell us about your hyrdo. Tell us about that time in Amsterdam. You've got about fitty good weed stories you're just DYING to tell. ;-)

Hew
02-27-2010, 02:46 AM
I lean toward legalizing it, myself, but I do "get" both sides of the argument.

My only contribution to this is to refute the notion of some folks that "you can't legislate morality." That makes for a lame bumper sticker, but little else. Our entire legal system is exactly the codification of, and a reflection of, our society's collective MORALITY.

dnf777
02-27-2010, 04:38 AM
It's called parents Each kid is issued 2.

I'm thankful for my two parents, and that they're still around long enough and healthy enough that I can start to repay them for all they've done for me. It sounds like you have or had the same wonderful privelage.

If you look around at the "troubled youts" though, you will see the majority of them have ONE parent at best, and she may be more concerned about doing things to get her next crack hit.

My point is, if we all came with two caring parents, there would probably be no need for drug laws or drinking ages at all. And without them (caring parents) you can make all the laws you want, and fill the jails with miscreants, and you won't make a dent in the troubled yout population.

Sorry about the regurgitation Leddy...hopefully this one didn't make you blow chunks! :D

badbullgator
02-27-2010, 06:57 AM
Dude apparently you didn't get the memo. All forklift drivers currently smoke pot. That is why they are still driving a forklift. You are supposed to watching out for them. The forklift driver is going to work every day going "I hope some uptight dillweed doesn't jump out in front of my forklift today." :cool:

What a relief to know we have people like you to make decisions for us people that are too stupid to make the right choice. You sound just like the Kenyan. Maybe you could publish a short pamphlet with pictures so we could understand it.

Your kids are already smoking it. You want they should go to jail?

P.S. I do not currently smoke pot, but I did when I was younger.

PPS> I can't believe I agree with DNF777...I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.


Terry that is great....lol.........

So on the forklift line...many years ago I owned a platering and drywall co. I can assure you that only about 5% of the tradesmen were "clean". Every single one of them either smoked pot, drank daily and in many cases all day, or worse. A buddy of mine also owned a plaster/drywall co. One day he decided that since he could get better insurance rates he was going to start tesing for drugs. We was also going to offer benifits so he would attract a better crowd, or so he thought. He spents thousands, quite a few, on per hire testing and in 6 months time he had a grand total of 5 applicants who actually passed a test. He ended up dropping the whole testing issue within a year.......

Hew
02-27-2010, 08:15 AM
So on the forklift line...many years ago I owned a platering and drywall co. I can assure you that only about 5% of the tradesmen were "clean". Every single one of them either smoked pot, drank daily and in many cases all day, or worse.
Shoot...drywallers are paragons of virtue compared to roofers. :) It's a state law that at least every roofing crew have a cumulative total of 2 spider web elbow tats and 4 teardrop tats.

dnf777
02-27-2010, 08:22 AM
... and in 6 months time he had a grand total of 5 applicants who actually passed a test. He ended up dropping the whole testing issue within a year.......

Wouldn't that kind of like issuing lie-detector tests to congress? Doubt we'd find five who pass!

JDogger
02-27-2010, 09:16 AM
LOL. JD gingerly sticks his toe in the water of this thread.

An 11 page thread on the chronic and JD ain't postin'?!? Go ahead, dude, you know it's killin' ya. Let it all out. Tell us about your hyrdo. Tell us about that time in Amsterdam. You've got about fitty good weed stories you're just DYING to tell. ;-)

Sorry, I don't have a dog in this test. :-|

As for stories, I'm sure, given your background in pizza delivery, sheetrockers and roofers w/ teardrop tattoos, that yours would be highly
amusing.:rolleyes:
Your knowledge of marijuana culture seems almost as extensive as Julie's of Rap. Curious...

Leddyman
02-27-2010, 10:40 AM
I love it when you eat each other.

JD

I am very straight laced socially. I believe that every position you take should have some basis in truth and logic. What we are doing in regards, to the Devil Weed is not logical and much of that rests on untruthful data that have been presented as facts.

We are not eating each other. I ain't mad. Just arguing my point.

Terry who agrees with Ducknwork about 98% of the time.

Robust debate regards,

Hew
02-27-2010, 11:23 AM
Robust debate regards,
That's a foreign concept to someone who smokes whatever Obama puts in his bong.

ducknwork
02-27-2010, 01:23 PM
Shoot...drywallers are paragons of virtue compared to roofers. :) It's a state law that at least every roofing crew have a cumulative total of 2 spider web elbow tats and 4 teardrop tats.

If you add 'mexican' to that list of requirements, you would be talking about NC.

badbullgator
02-27-2010, 02:40 PM
If you add 'mexican' to that list of requirements, you would be talking about NC.


That is not only NC.......pretty much every place any more...you know some of those jobs no American wants.....except my guys who were making 50-100K a year.

JDogger
02-28-2010, 12:16 AM
That's a foreign concept to someone who smokes whatever Obama puts in his bong.

My...what bitter herbs you smoke through yours.

sometimes a great notion
03-25-2010, 01:39 PM
I wanted to bring this to light as the Californians are going to be able to vote on legalization for mj in November. WA state is still gathering signatures for almost the same agenda. 56 %percent of WA population is for the legalization according to the NORML website.

Franco
03-25-2010, 02:06 PM
I wanted to bring this to light as the Californians are going to be able to vote on legalization for mj in November. WA state is still gathering signatures for almost the same agenda. 56 %percent of WA population is for the legalization according to the NORML website.

Here is more on California;
http://www.mpp.org/

freefall319
03-30-2010, 08:49 PM
I for one have never tried it (wasn't my thing I guess) & am not totaly opposed to legalizing it except for the fact that you can get a contact high from inhaling the smoke. So, for the states that allow smoking in door's how do you allow a substance like that to be put into the air that could all our children can breath?

I know tobacco is no better in regards to causing cancer. But, your kid wont get a contact high off it either. I know that as a parent that would be a deal breaker for me.

dnf777
03-30-2010, 08:53 PM
I for one have never tried it (wasn't my thing I guess) & am not totaly opposed to legalizing it except for the fact that you can get a contact high from inhaling the smoke. So, for the states that allow smoking in door's how do you allow a substance like that to be put into the air that could all our children can breath?

I know tobacco is no better in regards to causing cancer. But, your kid wont get a contact high off it either. I know that as a parent that would be a deal breaker for me.

Not sure where you're located, but here, if kids are allowed in a building, there can be no smoking anywhere in the same structure, with very few and strict exceptions. (in public buildings) In private homes, it's like anything else, we trust parents to raise their kids, and don't want government intrusion.

freefall319
03-30-2010, 09:17 PM
I'm in California, where smoking is not allowed indoors anywhere. But,i know in Nevada you can smoke in the store's, hotel's, ect and kid's are allowed there.

That was my point. Unless there is a law prohibiting it's use in public places then I wont support legalization. I dont want my kid's around it, period.

BonMallari
03-30-2010, 09:40 PM
I'm in California, where smoking is not allowed indoors anywhere. But,i know in Nevada you can smoke in the store's, hotel's, ect and kid's are allowed there.

That was my point. Unless there is a law prohibiting it's use in public places then I wont support legalization. I dont want my kid's around it, period.

Not quite accurate...the law was changed a couple of years ago to prohibit smoking anywhere food is being served, it was funded by the large casinos in an attempt to damage one of their main competitors, the neighborhood poker/slot bars that serve food 24/7 to shift workers..it really hurt places like my ex employer Mortons Steak House that was famous for it cigar friendly smoke filled private boardroom

dnf777
03-30-2010, 10:18 PM
That's all a very interesting slant on this topic: where should it be legal to use? I typically think of its use in places of home, where there is a fridge, bowl of chips, and a place to slumber nearby...no cars or driving involved. Legal only in the home? One's own home, or a friend's home ok? Bars?

I can already hear arguments that if it's ok to drink whiskey somewhere, it should be ok to burn one. Then the "smoking" laws come into play, and basically limit its use to homes and private property anyhow.

Its interesting that despite some more serious talk about legalization, that particular issue hasn't really surfaced too much yet. There will be all kinds of questions if it ever undergoes the legislative process. Distrubution? Quantity allowed in posession? Grow your own or buy from licensed distributor? Seeing how tax revenues would probably be the catalyst, I can't see legalizing the growth....unless a license would be required in order to grow?

Hoosier
03-30-2010, 10:44 PM
Terry that is great....lol.........

So on the forklift line...many years ago I owned a platering and drywall co. I can assure you that only about 5% of the tradesmen were "clean". Every single one of them either smoked pot, drank daily and in many cases all day, or worse. A buddy of mine also owned a plaster/drywall co. One day he decided that since he could get better insurance rates he was going to start tesing for drugs. We was also going to offer benifits so he would attract a better crowd, or so he thought. He spents thousands, quite a few, on per hire testing and in 6 months time he had a grand total of 5 applicants who actually passed a test. He ended up dropping the whole testing issue within a year.......

I had a crew of 12 drywall hangers that used to do a lot of work for me, and out of the 12 only 2 had drivers license's, and the last I heard one of them had his. Needless to say all of them smoked weed.

WRL
03-30-2010, 10:55 PM
When I was in HS, it was legal in AK.

You could have 3 plants or 1 ounce in possession.

WRL

badbullgator
03-31-2010, 06:50 AM
I had a crew of 12 drywall hangers that used to do a lot of work for me, and out of the 12 only 2 had drivers license's, and the last I heard one of them had his. Needless to say all of them smoked weed.


Pretty well the same here, but the DL's were lost to DUI and not weed.
On the other hand i know many doctors, professors, and scientist as well as other professionals who smoke. All have their DL's;-)

Hoosier
03-31-2010, 08:25 AM
Pretty well the same here, but the DL's were lost to DUI and not weed.
On the other hand i know many doctors, professors, and scientist as well as other professionals who smoke. All have their DL's;-)

Correct they were lost to DUI.

I was talking to a homeowner one day, and the guy who ran that crew came up to talk to us with a bag of weed hanging out of his front shirt pocket. Luckily the homeowner understood the type, and appreciated how hard they worked.