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M&K's Retrievers
03-24-2010, 03:21 PM
My over/under on Congress' attempt to add a Value Added or National Sales tax to fund Obama Healthcaremess is 12/01/10. What say you?

Bayou Magic
03-24-2010, 03:42 PM
My over/under on Congress' attempt to add a Value Added or National Sales tax to fund Obama Healthcaremess is 12/01/10. What say you?

Why would this administration consider such a thing? Remember, the health care bill lowers the deficit. ;)

Is there anyone here who really believes that?

I don't doubt that the proposal is being discussed in earnest now. However, it will be met with strong resistance. I would love to see that come to a vote before this November!

fp

YardleyLabs
03-24-2010, 04:51 PM
My over/under on Congress' attempt to add a Value Added or National Sales tax to fund Obama Healthcaremess is 12/01/10. What say you?
Why would they adopt this to fund health care when they have already adopted taxes to pay the bill for health care? These include a tax on tanning salons, extension of Medicare taxes for higher income families, and penalties for failure to buy/provide health insurance beginning in 2014.

There remain some open issues. A number of tax cuts passed in 2001 are scheduled to increase when the legislation sunsets at the end of this year. Extending all of these tax cuts would add hundreds of billions to the deficit. It will be interesting to see how this is addressed given the impossibility of offsetting the increase to the deficit if all tax cuts are extended.

Goose
03-24-2010, 09:27 PM
Why would they adopt this to fund health care when they have already adopted taxes to pay the bill for health care? These include a tax on tanning salons, extension of Medicare taxes for higher income families, and penalties for failure to buy/provide health insurance beginning in 2014.

There remain some open issues. A number of tax cuts passed in 2001 are scheduled to increase when the legislation sunsets at the end of this year. Extending all of these tax cuts would add hundreds of billions to the deficit. It will be interesting to see how this is addressed given the impossibility of offsetting the increase to the deficit if all tax cuts are extended.

A tax on tanning salons is gonna take care of health care funding?:) Guuuuump!!!! Come on, son. Put that airplane glue down. I didn't know tanning salons were such cash cows! Gotta get me one of them.

The Pelosi wing of the democrat party is working overtime to come up with some sort of VAT they can ram down our throats. And with their newly discovered fascist tactics of deemandpassreconciliationsiegheil it's a lot easier now. Just snap your finger and it becomes law.

But that's not the big cherry pie they REALLY want to help prevent a collapse in the treasury market. What they really want is your 401K/IRA/SEP/Pension. That gets Nanzi really going! Oh, they'll give you some sort of government annuity or a 'guarnateed' income stream for your efforts. Kinda like social security. But you can't possibly expect to keep all that money to yourself? You gotta share, man. That's social justice.

From 2008 - "The Argentine state is taking control of the country's privately-managed pension funds in a drastic move to raise cash" I know, I know...it's stinkin' Argentina, right? That surely can't happen here? We have a Constitution! The government can't step in and take all the money I've saved in my 401K can they? No, never.

Nope, we're doomed with this crew.

We live in Cuba now.

YardleyLabs
03-24-2010, 09:31 PM
A tax on tanning salons is gonna take care of health care funding?:) Guuuuump!!!! Come on, son. Put that airplane glue down. I didn't know tanning salons were such cash cows! Gotta get me one of them.

The Pelosi wing of the democrat party is working overtime to come up with some sort of VAT they can ram down our throats. And with their newly discovered fascist tactics of deemandpassreconciliationsiegheil it's a lot easier now. Just snap your finger and it becomes law.

But that's not the big cherry pie they REALLY want to help prevent a collapse in the treasury market. What they really want is your 401K/IRA/SEP/Pension. That gets Nanzi really going! Oh, they'll give you some sort of government annuity or a 'guarnateed' income stream for your efforts. Kinda like social security. But you can't possibly expect to keep all that money to yourself? You gotta share, man. That's social justice.

From 2008 - "The Argentine state is taking control of the country's privately-managed pension funds in a drastic move to raise cash" I know, I know...it's stinkin' Argentina, right? That surely can't happen here? We have a Constitution! The government can't step in and take all the money I've saved in my 401K can they? No, never.

Nope, we're doomed with this crew.

We live in Cuba now.
I think you've spent too much time living in the Cuba in your mind. You've fallen over the edge.:rolleyes:

Sabireley
03-24-2010, 09:41 PM
A national sales tax in lieu of income tax might not be a bad idea. VAT is bad because it is hidden in the supply chain and not immediately noticable or painful to pay. Sales tax gets everyone, including those who skirt the tax system now. It does open up a black market for things, but every new tax or law changes the behavior of someone.

M&K's Retrievers
03-24-2010, 11:20 PM
A national sales tax in lieu of income tax might not be a bad idea. .

Your right but not in addition to all the current taxes.

zeus3925
03-25-2010, 10:06 AM
From 2008 - "The Argentine state is taking control of the country's privately-managed pension funds in a drastic move to raise cash" I know, I know...it's stinkin' Argentina, right? That surely can't happen here? We have a Constitution! The government can't step in and take all the money I've saved in my 401K can they? No, never.

Nope, we're doomed with this crew.

We live in Cuba now.

Argentina has long had a habit of this kind of stuff. Remember Evita?

zeus3925
03-25-2010, 10:09 AM
A national sales tax in lieu of income tax might not be a bad idea. VAT is bad because it is hidden in the supply chain and not immediately noticable or painful to pay. Sales tax gets everyone, including those who skirt the tax system now. It does open up a black market for things, but every new tax or law changes the behavior of someone.

One thing about the VAT in Europe, it has simplified tax collection and shrunk the supporting bureaucracy.

luvmylabs23139
03-25-2010, 10:23 AM
The thing is they will not get rid of the income tax. They wiil just add a VAT. It would be small at first, but then they will increase it.

Goose
03-25-2010, 10:31 AM
From 2009:

"One of the nation's largest labor unions, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), is promoting a plan that will centralize all retirement plans for American workers, including private 401(k) plans, under one new "retirement system" for the United States."

"The SEIU, which was integral to the election of Barack Obama as president, is working with the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute (EPI), and the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, on SEIU's plan, called "the Retirement USA Initiative."

So now the unions want to take over your 401(k). Cool!

We live in Cuba now.

Franco
03-25-2010, 10:35 AM
So they just passed a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he didn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, signed by a president who smokes and lies, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese.... And better yet it is to be financed by a country that's broke!

Goose
03-25-2010, 12:08 PM
Man, I was looking for that key all day yesterday. I looked upstairs and downstairs. I even went out back and looked in my shed but I still couldn't find that darn key. I finally found it this morning!! Good thing, too. We need that key.

Now all I need to do is find that darn Social Security lockbox because I guess there's a small problem with solvency this year. They're paying out more in benefits than they're taking in. Bummer. That wasn't supposed to happen this year.

I'm sure this is a short-term problem because President Barack tells me that he's saving and creating all these jobs. I'm sure it just takes time for all these new jobs to start paying into the Social Security system and save the day.

But there's gold and silver and marketable stuff inside that lockbox that we can use to pay benefits so we don't have to worry about it. And once the newly saved and created jobs that Barack promised us are up and running they can contribute, too and we can put back all the gold and silver and marketable stuff we took out of the lockbox and lock it up again!

But just in case let's pass immigration reform so we can make the poor Mexicans contribute to our wonderful social security system, too. Let them fund our retirement and then maybe we can pass another law and kick them out of the country...for good. Ain't American great!!!

We live in Cuba now.

YardleyLabs
03-25-2010, 12:57 PM
...

Now all I need to do is find that darn Social Security lockbox because I guess there's a small problem with solvency this year. They're paying out more in benefits than they're taking in. Bummer. That wasn't supposed to happen this year.

..
Well, the trust funds generated a surplus of $180 billion in the fiscal year ending 9/30/2009 and are projected to generate a comparable surplus this year in the last estimates I saw (from January). I'm not sure what your are referencing.

Goose
03-25-2010, 01:47 PM
Well, the trust funds generated a surplus of $180 billion in the fiscal year ending 9/30/2009 and are projected to generate a comparable surplus this year in the last estimates I saw (from January). I'm not sure what your are referencing.

Go to the New York Times online and read the Mary Williams Walsh story in Today's Paper...'Social Security To See Payout Exceed Pay-In This Year'.

For those too lazy to look it up...

"This year, the system will pay out more in benefits than it receives in payroll taxes, an important threshold it was not expected to cross until at least 2016, according to the Congressional Budget Office"

YardleyLabs
03-25-2010, 02:12 PM
Go to the New York Times online and read the Mary Williams Walsh story in Today's Paper...'Social Security To See Payout Exceed Pay-In This Year'.

For those too lazy to look it up...

"This year, the system will pay out more in benefits than it receives in payroll taxes, an important threshold it was not expected to cross until at least 2016, according to the Congressional Budget Office"
I guess that puts it in the same boat as the balance of Federal revenues which are down dramatically. Based on the story, the fund seems to be in good shape for the balance of my life and then some.;) Not expecting to make it to 2037. The biggest impact is more that we have been using the surplus to pay current bills.

Hoosier
03-25-2010, 05:33 PM
I guess that puts it in the same boat as the balance of Federal revenues which are down dramatically. Based on the story, the fund seems to be in good shape for the balance of my life and then some.;) Not expecting to make it to 2037. The biggest impact is more that we have been using the surplus to pay current bills.

2037 that's the year I'll turn 67, not to worry though I sure by then they'll already kicked the eligible age up to 80 or so.

Henry V
03-25-2010, 05:47 PM
Back to this sales tax issue.
I am curious what "sales" people think should be taxed.
Since our economy has become much more dependent on the service sector, should this potential tax be on "goods" and "services" or just "goods"?
If you tax goods, would it include food and clothing? We have no sales tax on these items here.

luvmylabs23139
03-25-2010, 05:56 PM
Back to this sales tax issue.

If you tax goods, would it include food and clothing? We have no sales tax on these items here.

Lucky you. Both food and clothing are taxed in NC.
Yes, bread and milk are already taxed!

luvmylabs23139
03-25-2010, 05:58 PM
By the way a VAT tax is not the same as a sales tax. It is much more hidden.

M&K's Retrievers
03-25-2010, 06:33 PM
I would guess they would tax everything possible.

dnf777
03-25-2010, 07:10 PM
2037 that's the year I'll turn 67, not to worry though I sure by then they'll already kicked the eligible age up to 80 or so.

I've already realized SS won't be there for me. I just hope the gov't doesn't look at the retirement fund I'm paying into now as a source of retirement pay for all those out there my age who aren't!

Sabireley
03-25-2010, 09:08 PM
A sales tax in leiu of income tax would be fair and and would collect more tax from those who spend more. If certain foods, clothing, and fuel were exempt, then the poor would not be adversely impacted. Anyone can control how much tax they pay by how much they consume. The sales tax should be visible in every purchase so you know exactly how much money you are sending to the government.

With a sales tax, you could also eliminate the corporate tax. Corporate tax is passed on to the consumer in higher prices.

Eliminate the complex tax code, you can spend the billions wasted on tax preparation and tax preparation software each year on something else. We could also drastically cut the size of the IRS.

VAT is bad. VAT is a tax applied at every step of the supply chain. It is hidden and not easily separated from the total cost of an item. Politicians love it because you can raise it little by little without people noticing. The UK uses a combination of VAT and income tax.

Both VAT and sales tax are great for the black market and the gray market. Any change in the tax code will result in some unintended consequences.


Steve

M&K's Retrievers
04-07-2010, 11:35 AM
Looks like it's starting:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4140152/vat-man-cometh

please excuse the 20 sec. ad at begining of video

luvmylabs23139
04-07-2010, 02:10 PM
The poor should be taxed!!!!!!! They need to pay for stuff they use!!!!!!!!!!!!

YardleyLabs
04-07-2010, 02:28 PM
The poor should be taxed!!!!!!! They need to pay for stuff they use!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, they pay social security and medicare taxes representing about 8% of their income, unemployment insurance taxes totaling a few percent of income, sales taxes which may, depending on the state, represent a higher percentage of their incomes than they represent for those with higher incomes, and indirectly pay property taxes through the rent that they pay. All in all, their total tax burden is likely to be as much as 15% of their incomes, which puts them only slightly lower than the percentage paid by the wealthiest tenth of a percent of Americans for whom Federal income taxes represent 10-15% (after taking advantage of lower dividend and capital gains taxes as well as non-taxable income sources), with only a few percent going to property tax, sales tax, and FICA/FUTA.

M&K's Retrievers
04-09-2010, 12:32 AM
My over/under on Congress' attempt to add a Value Added or National Sales tax to fund Obama Healthcaremess is 12/01/10. What say you?

This was the original intent of the thread. Any opinions?

subroc
04-09-2010, 05:47 AM
you can't have too many taxes.

luvmylabs23139
04-09-2010, 08:48 AM
Unemployement taxes both federal and state (FUI and SUI)are paid by the employer not the employee!!!!

Notice they are technically called insurance not a tax.
SUI rates are based on unemployment claims.
In certain states employees are eligable for unemployment benefits even if the employer DID NOT terminate the employee.

Raymond Little
04-11-2010, 11:42 AM
Why would they adopt this to fund health care when they have already adopted taxes to pay the bill for health care? These include a tax on tanning salons, extension of Medicare taxes for higher income families, and penalties for failure to buy/provide health insurance beginning in 2014.

There remain some open issues. A number of tax cuts passed in 2001 are scheduled to increase when the legislation sunsets at the end of this year. Extending all of these tax cuts would add hundreds of billions to the deficit. It will be interesting to see how this is addressed given the impossibility of offsetting the increase to the deficit if all tax cuts are extended.

Because they know there isn't enough $$$$ to pay for their Scheme.:mad:

Uncle Bill
04-11-2010, 12:41 PM
This was the original intent of the thread. Any opinions?


I would say it'll happen much sooner...by August, so Pelosi and friends can get their money-grubbing fingers on as much as they want. Plus it takes time for the gestapo to put the proper amount in place.

Once the ignorant white folk realize the Tanning Houses tax is racist, they will revolt. It will be much like the huge tax that was placed on the yahting industry, that closed it down, so nothing was realized by the greedy SFN crowd of bastards. Those places are "rich-whitey-folk" hangouts, and will quickly fold.

But the VAT is as much as a done deal, and has been one of the drooling forms of taxation this administration has eyed well before they took office, so why get worked up over it's reality now?

UB

M&K's Retrievers
04-11-2010, 01:46 PM
I would say it'll happen much sooner...by August, so Pelosi and friends can get their money-grubbing fingers on as much as they want. Plus it takes time for the gestapo to put the proper amount in place.

Once the ignorant white folk realize the Tanning Houses tax is racist, they will revolt. It will be much like the huge tax that was placed on the yahting industry, that closed it down, so nothing was realized by the greedy SFN crowd of bastards. Those places are "rich-whitey-folk" hangouts, and will quickly fold.

But the VAT is as much as a done deal, and has been one of the drooling forms of taxation this administration has eyed well before they took office, so why get worked up over it's reality now?

UB

Just wondering when the other shoe will drop.