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dixidawg
03-26-2010, 05:22 PM
Looks like Obamacare will be costing some union members their "cadillac" health care plans:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100326/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_at_t_health_care


...
AT&T also said Friday that it is looking into changing the health care benefits it offers because of the new law. Analysts say retirees could lose the prescription drug coverage provided by their former employers as a result of the overhaul.
Changes to benefits are unlikely to take effect immediately. Rather, the issue would most likely come up as part of contract negotiations between the company and unions representing its employees and retirees. AT&T is the largest private employer of union workers in the U.S....



Wonder how this will play with union support of Democrats in the next election?

YardleyLabs
03-26-2010, 05:25 PM
Looks like Obamacare will be costing some union members their "cadillac" health care plans:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100326/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_at_t_health_care


...
AT&T also said Friday that it is looking into changing the health care benefits it offers because of the new law. Analysts say retirees could lose the prescription drug coverage provided by their former employers as a result of the overhaul.
Changes to benefits are unlikely to take effect immediately. Rather, the issue would most likely come up as part of contract negotiations between the company and unions representing its employees and retirees. AT&T is the largest private employer of union workers in the U.S....



Wonder how this will play with union support of Democrats in the next election?
That's because they are losing about one-third of the $633/person er year subsidy that the Federal government has been paying them to provide that coverage since 2003.

dixidawg
03-26-2010, 05:37 PM
Right, but the net of all of it is employees of "largest private employer of union workers in the U.S" (and others) will likely be losing at least some of their benefits as a result of Obamacare. How will that play out with them come election day?

choclab32
03-26-2010, 05:43 PM
I am a Union member but my health care plan is far from "cadillac" It continues to get worse every year. This year we lost all vision and now only have 1000 per family in dental.. Thats nothing with a family of 5 >>

Eric Johnson
03-26-2010, 06:04 PM
When the Medicare drug benefit was created, the Govt agreed to pay this subsidy in order to avoid the full cost of drugs for the insurees. Now this subsidy is being dropped. Approximately 3200 companies got the subsidy and will now have to decide whether to just drop the benefit and put their retirees fully on Medicare Part D. IOW, it was cheaper for the gov't to pay the subsidy than to pay the full benefit. With the subsidy gone, there will be no incentive for the firms to cover the drug charges.

The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again. There goes the CBO estimate out the window.

Eric

YardleyLabs
03-26-2010, 06:32 PM
When the Medicare drug benefit was created, the Govt agreed to pay this subsidy in order to avoid the full cost of drugs for the insurees. Now this subsidy is being dropped. Approximately 3200 companies got the subsidy and will now have to decide whether to just drop the benefit and put their retirees fully on Medicare Part D. IOW, it was cheaper for the gov't to pay the subsidy than to pay the full benefit. With the subsidy gone, there will be no incentive for the firms to cover the drug charges.

The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again. There goes the CBO estimate out the window.

Eric
Actually, the subsidy was made taxable; it was not eliminated. Why should the subsidy be permanent? You are right that over time more of these people will choose to purchase the Medicare benefit instead. My primary point, however, is that no one was arguing from an ideological perspective. The complaint is that the "socialism" isn't generous enough.

dixidawg
03-26-2010, 06:40 PM
Actually, the subsidy was made taxable; it was not eliminated. Why should the subsidy be permanent? You are right that over time more of these people will choose to purchase the Medicare benefit instead. My primary point, however, is that no one was arguing from an ideological perspective. The complaint is that the "socialism" isn't generous enough.


Whose complaint?

The question I asked was how will this reduction in benefits play out on election day. In this particular instance it is hitting many democrat supporting union members and retirees. I'll bet the republicans will keep reminding them it was due to Obamacare. How much of an impact will that have in November?

luvmylabs23139
03-26-2010, 06:44 PM
Let's not forget that these companies are REQUIRED BY LAW to report any extrodinary expenses in advance that they know will affect quarterly earnings.
If they do not the CEO"S and CFO's could seriously go to jail.

M&K's Retrievers
03-26-2010, 09:19 PM
I am a Union member but my health care plan is far from "cadillac" It continues to get worse every year. This year we lost all vision and now only have 1000 per family in dental.. Thats nothing with a family of 5 >>

Oh, no! A reduction in benefits. But let me guess, how much were you paying for that "catastrophic" coverage? Nothing? Nada? Zilch? It was a frigging freebie that you take for granted. Do you even have a clue that most people don't even have dental insurance much less vision coverage? There are so many folks who are just trying to get medical coverage. Give me a break!

Oh, Waaaaaaaaaaa!!

K.Bullock
03-27-2010, 05:09 PM
Whose complaint?

The question I asked was how will this reduction in benefits play out on election day. In this particular instance it is hitting many democrat supporting union members and retirees. I'll bet the republicans will keep reminding them it was due to Obamacare. How much of an impact will that have in November?

You are asking the same people that voted for him in the first place ...right? They will vote for whomever the TV or their unions tell them to vote for.

YardleyLabs
03-27-2010, 05:18 PM
You are asking the same people that voted for him in the first place ...right? They will vote for whomever the TV or their unions tell them to vote for.
Is that how you voted? I would hope both you and everyone else would be a little more thoughtful.

dixidawg
03-27-2010, 05:43 PM
You are asking the same people that voted for him in the first place ...right? They will vote for whomever the TV or their unions tell them to vote for.

That's actually why I asked. How strong will the union ties be to the democratic party if the healthcare bill is tied to taking money, or in this case benefits, out of their pocket?

One phenomenon in the Scott Brown race here in Mass was that exit polling said that union members voted for the Republican Brown in record numbers despite ALL the union money and support being with Coakley.

subroc
03-28-2010, 09:03 AM
I expect union members are glad to pay more so non-union citizens, whether they work or not, will receive the same benefits that they, union members, worked for, earned and bargained for. After all their party, the one the throw all their support, resources and loyalty behind passed this without any support from the opposition. This must represent the union position.

choclab32
03-29-2010, 05:27 PM
Oh, no! A reduction in benefits. But let me guess, how much were you paying for that "catastrophic" coverage? Nothing? Nada? Zilch? It was a frigging freebie that you take for granted. Do you even have a clue that most people don't even have dental insurance much less vision coverage? There are so many folks who are just trying to get medical coverage. Give me a break!

Oh, Waaaaaaaaaaa!!

We have no "catastrophic" coverage sir and I pay 1350 a month for 75/25 coverage with a 2500 deduc. So give me a break !! Im not waaaaaaaaing like you. Just letting you know its not as good as you may think !!So you should get your facts straight before opening your mouth and bashing me

choclab32
03-29-2010, 05:31 PM
WOW we union members are getting hammered here !! We have been in the past a 'straight' ticket democratic group... UNTIL this year we were advised by the AFLCIO and our local unions to Vote Republican this past Nov. Even they have FINALLY realized they are all crooks. I am a Union member strickly for the wages and job security not the groups political views.

Marvin S
03-29-2010, 05:41 PM
Just read an article on Nexium. MEDICAID (that's welfare) spends $800,000,000 on it per year when Prilosec would do the same job. How does a medicaid recipient get heartburn, from eating too much junk food bought by FOOD STAMPS?

HC Reform was needed, too bad it didn't happen :rolleyes:.

YardleyLabs
03-29-2010, 06:04 PM
Just read an article on Nexium. MEDICAID (that's welfare) spends $800,000,000 on it per year when Prilosec would do the same job. How does a medicaid recipient get heartburn, from eating too much junk food bought by FOOD STAMPS?

HC Reform was needed, too bad it didn't happen :rolleyes:.
Actually, I get my heartburn from reflux disease which I have had since I was ten. I use Prilosec OTC, which costs me about $25/month (after discounts), a substantial reduction from the $160/month paid by my insurance before generic equivalents became available. My physician would be happy to issue a prescription for Nexium or another drug which my insurance would then pay for at a cost to me of $20/month in co-pay.

Under Medicaid, Medicaid pays 100% for the prescription drug but will not pay anything for the non-prescription drug. Accordingly most physicians would be happy to write them prescriptions so that they will not need to pay and are therefore more likely to take the drug. States make their own decisions on how to review these drugs, but some require prior approval in these cases.

By the way, before drugs like Prilosec were developed, I ate 4-6 packages of Rolaids daily even with a highly regulated diet. I also either had to sleep with 3-4 pillows in a sitting position or sleep on my side. If I slept on my back I was at rick of strangling in my sleep. The residual acid still led to the development of Barrett's Esophagus, which contributes to a high risk for developing esophageal cancer. You might not want to jump to conclusions about other people's medical conditions. Prilosec is a life saving drug for me.

Buzz
03-29-2010, 06:10 PM
Jeff, my insurance company will pay for Prilosec and require no co-pay, if a physician prescribes it. Medicare should do the same...

YardleyLabs
03-29-2010, 06:43 PM
Jeff, my insurance company will pay for Prilosec and require no co-pay, if a physician prescribes it. Medicare should do the same...
Agreed. The exclusion of over the counter drugs made more sense several years ago. Now that more and more prescription drugs are being converted to OTC when they go generic, it makes no sense. I take both Prilosec and Zyrtec OTC now, but had received both under prescription for many years. Happily Simvastatin (Zocor) is paid under prescription and ends up costing me about $5 per month.The good news is that those three drugs together you to cost me almost $400 per month before I first got prescription coverage.

M&K's Retrievers
03-29-2010, 06:54 PM
We have no "catastrophic" coverage sir and I pay 1350 a month for 75/25 coverage with a 2500 deduc. So give me a break !! Im not waaaaaaaaing like you. Just letting you know its not as good as you may think !!So you should get your facts straight before opening your mouth and bashing me

My facts are right on, sir! I wasn't bashing you. I was teasing you. You apparently don't understand scarcasm. I was refering to you dental/vison coverage you were bellyaching about as catastrophic coverage. And yes you do have catastrophic coverage. You just described it. Shirley, you didn't think I was talking about insuring your "catastrophics" did you?:razz:

Marvin S
03-29-2010, 08:30 PM
You might not want to jump to conclusions about other people's medical conditions. Prilosec is a life saving drug for me.

Please reread my post! Speaking of jumping to whatever :rolleyes:.


Just read an article on Nexium. MEDICAID (that's welfare) spends $800,000,000 on it per year when Prilosec would do the same job. How does a medicaid recipient get heartburn, from eating too much junk food bought by FOOD STAMPS?

HC Reform was needed, too bad it didn't happen :rolleyes:.

choclab32
03-30-2010, 07:36 PM
My facts are right on, sir! I wasn't bashing you. I was teasing you. You apparently don't understand scarcasm. I was refering to you dental/vison coverage you were bellyaching about as catastrophic coverage. And yes you do have catastrophic coverage. You just described it. Shirley, you didn't think I was talking about insuring your "catastrophics" did you?:razz:

So once again you are right about M Y insurance plan..LMAO I do understand sarcasm bud .. Im married.. Your bellyaching comment was teasing ?? It seemed a bit rude to me and the other 75 or so PMs I received today. Ill just enjoy the great benefits of this site and avoid you. And i was not bashing your gas and oil interests my brother and I own many NG wells in OH its a great business. thats what keeps me republican..

YardleyLabs
03-30-2010, 08:07 PM
Please reread my post! Speaking of jumping to whatever :rolleyes:.
I read what you said perfectly well even before you quoted yourself again. You said, " How does a medicaid recipient get heartburn, from eating too much junk food bought by FOOD STAMPS?"

That's a pretty ignorant comment. Beyond that, as far as I can tell, the $800 million estimate is pure speculation by a guy who has been fighting Nexium since its release in 2001. Individual states negotiate their own pricing arrangements with drug manufacturers. In Vermont, for example, Medicaid does not include Nexium in its formulary and special approval is needed to prescribe it. In Georgia, by contrast Nexium is the preferred drug for Medicaid patients. Hopefully, Georgia made that decision based on getting a better price rather than based on getting a bigger bribe. In Pennsylvania Nexium is classified as a not preferred drug requiring patient co-pays and approvals where Prilosec OTC is preferred and covered in full.

To find out how much is spent on Nexium by Medicaid would require surveying all 50 states. To give context to that would require that you also capture information on other proton inhibitors (e.g. Prilosec, Prevacid, etc.) since there are contexts in which one drug may be preferred over another for medical reasons.

Generally speaking, such drugs would not be considered likely candidates for patient abuse since they do not provide any side effects beyond their stated purpose. As with asthma, elevated cholesterol or triglycerides, hypertension, etc., however, with heartburn the symptom is the problem. Ongoing heartburn, whether caused by an inappropriate diet or other physical causes, is a serious issue all by itself. If untreated, it can lead, for example, to changes in the cell structure of the esophagus that can result in more serious complications, including cancer. Someone with recurring heartburn should be counseled with respect to diet, but should also be treated.

Marvin S
03-31-2010, 08:24 AM
That's a pretty ignorant comment.

Coming from someone who can't figure out how to train his own dogs to do Hunt Tests that is a meaningless statement. :(

YardleyLabs
03-31-2010, 09:03 AM
Coming from someone who can't figure out how to train his own dogs to do Hunt Tests that is a meaningless statement. :(
Not sure where that came from or its relevance. FWIW I have 21 hunt test passes with four different dogs, one of which never saw a bird or heard a gun until she was three that I trained completely, one of which was purchased as an adult with known issues from early abuse that I trained to get past those issues, one of which is pro trained for FT work but that I trained for hunt test work before she started pro training and returned to training while she took a year off from pro training, and one that started pro training but had to be pulled out because of EIC, that I have trained since. I first became involved with this sport in the spring of 2007. As far as I can tell, in the time since I ran in my first event in August 2007 (with a seven month old that I bred and trained), you are listed as handler in four Qualifying trials and one Amateur with no ribbons. I am listed as handler in about 40 tests and trials with about 30 ribbons. However, I was actually only the handler in about 30 of those events with 22 ribbons. I'd say I have had a lot of fun over the last three years and anticipate a fun year in 2010 as well.

menmon
03-31-2010, 09:24 AM
Let's not forget that these companies are REQUIRED BY LAW to report any extrodinary expenses in advance that they know will affect quarterly earnings.
If they do not the CEO"S and CFO's could seriously go to jail.

The is not an extraordinary expense according to GAAP. Now Wall Street will treat it like a one-time charge and remove it from its valuation model.

Marvin S
03-31-2010, 05:19 PM
Not sure where that came from or its relevance. FWIW I have 21 hunt test passes with four different dogs, one of which never saw a bird or heard a gun until she was three that I trained completely, one of which was purchased as an adult with known issues from early abuse that I trained to get past those issues, one of which is pro trained for FT work but that I trained for hunt test work before she started pro training and returned to training while she took a year off from pro training, and one that started pro training but had to be pulled out because of EIC, that I have trained since.

If I'm not mistaken, which on occasion I can be, you were the person who made considerable noise of your use of a pro on these threads. I see that your experiences are on the SOfR&H venue, good for you :).


I first became involved with this sport in the spring of 2007. As far as I can tell, in the time since I ran in my first event in August 2007 (with a seven month old that I bred and trained), you are listed as handler in four Qualifying trials and one Amateur with no ribbons. I am listed as handler in about 40 tests and trials with about 30 ribbons. However, I was actually only the handler in about 30 of those events with 22 ribbons. I'd say I have had a lot of fun over the last three years and anticipate a fun year in 2010 as well.

I would have responded sooner but was delivering what is hoped to be an incubator full of fertile Call Duck eggs to a friend of mine who shares some common associations with this sport. We have both been involved in the sport for close to 1/2 a century & both still have the wife we started with, both milestones.

But if it's ribbons that impress you, I have a whole bunch available laying around in shoe boxes, probably enough green ones to cover a lawn ;-).

As for my reasons for not participating recently, I discussed that with my friend today & he had quite a chuckle. It has nothing to do with not having a dog capable of being competitive.

luvmylabs23139
03-31-2010, 05:25 PM
The is not an extraordinary expense according to GAAP. Now Wall Street will treat it like a one-time charge and remove it from its valuation model.

OK if you want to get technical it is a material change in the long term liability for retiree benefits. As such it must be reported per SEC reguations.