PDA

View Full Version : Strengthening Economy - Good For Democrats in November



menmon
04-06-2010, 12:51 PM
All the leading indicators are showing an improving economy and by the mid-term elections, things will have improved significantly.

My question is: Do you stay with the one that helped improve things or do you change back to the one that put you in the soup?

subroc
04-06-2010, 12:53 PM
we all get to make that choice...

Buzz
04-06-2010, 01:04 PM
Sambo, what do you think will happen to oil prices?

I was hearing about the possibility of $4/gallon gas prices again this summer.

I can tell you, that will reduce the amount of training I do as-well-as the the number of trials I run.

menmon
04-06-2010, 01:07 PM
I think $90+ oil is a reality this summer, especially if the economy continues to heat up, so plan on $3.50-$4.00 gasoline. Having said this, the strengthening dollar is the best defense for rising oil prices.

badbullgator
04-06-2010, 01:25 PM
I see your shift ended early today at the IHOP

menmon
04-06-2010, 01:27 PM
huh....what does the IHOP have to do with this?

BonMallari
04-06-2010, 02:07 PM
I think $90+ oil is a reality this summer, especially if the economy continues to heat up, so plan on $3.50-$4.00 gasoline. Having said this, the strengthening dollar is the best defense for rising oil prices.

where do you get this theory of yours (or whatever economic guru you listen to)

Buzz
04-06-2010, 02:08 PM
I think $90+ oil is a reality this summer, especially if the economy continues to heat up, so plan on $3.50-$4.00 gasoline. Having said this, the strengthening dollar is the best defense for rising oil prices.


With gas prices at those levels, I don't think we have to worry about any recovery. It'll be snuffed out.:(

Franco
04-06-2010, 02:10 PM
Don't believe a word of it! There is no way in hades that the economy is getting better. We are still printing money and borrowing from anyone that will lend us money. We still have very high unemployment and retail sales including auto sales are still in the tank!

What we can count on is super-inflation.

I was expecting this propaganda to be released closer to the November elections to help the Democrats.

menmon
04-06-2010, 02:12 PM
There are various economic indicators that are used to determine health and performance of the economy. They have been around much longer than the internet too.

I realize republicans what the economy to perform badly so that they can blame it on the democrats, but I'm for letting the democrats win this one.

menmon
04-06-2010, 02:16 PM
With gas prices at those levels, I don't think we have to worry about any recovery. It'll be snuffed out.:(

You are right, high energy prices are bad for the recovery. Having said that, if the purchasing power of the dollar continues to strengthen, it will position the US to lead the recovery. And the way to assure that is to raise the fed funds rate.

Franco
04-06-2010, 02:19 PM
There are various economic indicators that are used to determine health and performance of the economy. They have been around much longer than the internet too.

I realize republicans what the economy to perform badly so that they can blame it on the democrats, but I'm for letting the democrats win this one.

That is correct and by not using all the information and indicators in order to decieve the American voting public is not being honest!

There is no way we can wrecklessly spend money the way the current and pass administration have and recover without paying the devil.

Keep on drinking the koolaide!

menmon
04-06-2010, 02:24 PM
where do you get this theory of yours (or whatever economic guru you listen to)

I'm basing it on the current price of oil and the increased demand that summer provides and the correlation between the dollar and oil prices. So I guess I'm the guru that I listened too. As good of a guess as anybody, and I would not be afraid to put my money where my mouth is.

It's not hard to figure this stuff out when the economy is growing and is coming out of a recesssion.

It's a lot harder when it is going the other direction...my best advice is to stay out of its way.

YardleyLabs
04-06-2010, 02:33 PM
That is correct and by not using all the information and indicators in order to decieve the American voting public is not being honest!

There is no way we can wrecklessly spend money they way the current and pass administration have and recover without paying the devil.

Keep on drinking the koolaide!
Rapid growth, as is happening now, works only as long as there is significant excess capacity in the economy. Our current employment rates are evidence that the excess capacity exists. However, if deficits -- and the related economic stimulus -- still exist as unemployment declines to more normal levels, we will end up in an unstable position again. By the end of this year, many of the Bush tax cuts will expire. At the same time the stimulus bill funds will largely dry up. Both will begin to put the brakes on growth and make a big dent in the deficit as long as new stimulus programs are not launched. However, Democrats have been seeking additional stimulus programs and there will be pressure to extend some of the tax cuts. I tend to believe that both of these actions will damage the economy. If, by some miracle, the economy moves smoothly from rapid recovery to stable growth next year, the odds that Obama will be reelected will go up dramatically. Whether improvements will happen quickly enough to protect Congressional seats in 2010 is another story.

Franco
04-06-2010, 02:41 PM
Rapid growth, as is happening now, works only as long as there is significant excess capacity in the economy. Our current employment rates are evidence that the excess capacity exists. However, if deficits -- and the related economic stimulus -- still exist as unemployment declines to more normal levels, we will end up in an unstable position again. By the end of this year, many of the Bush tax cuts will expire. At the same time the stimulus bill funds will largely dry up. Both will begin to put the brakes on growth and make a big dent in the deficit as long as new stimulus programs are not launched. However, Democrats have been seeking additional stimulus programs and there will be pressure to extend some of the tax cuts. I tend to believe that both of these actions will damage the economy. If, by some miracle, the economy moves smoothly from rapid recovery to stable growth next year, the odds that Obama will be reelected will go up dramatically. Whether improvements will happen quickly enough to protect Congressional seats in 2010 is another story.

The best and proven way to grow the economy is by helping small businesses. Not burdening them with more taxes (capital gains taxes, Cap and Tax) and not forcing them out of business by forcing them to pay more for Health Insurance.

We need to move more in the direction of a Free Market with less government interference! Let the market direct itself and stop the madness of artificial indicators set by the goobs.

WE do need reform with the major investment banking firms. They have caused many of the problems while thier top brass has walked with billions of tax payer dollars.

Goose
04-06-2010, 02:48 PM
I think $90+ oil is a reality this summer, especially if the economy continues to heat up, so plan on $3.50-$4.00 gasoline. Having said this, the strengthening dollar is the best defense for rising oil prices.

Wow!!! All the way up to $90 this summer? Really??? And just think...we're only at $87 right now. What an out-on-the-limb prediction you've made. A three dollar move in oil by summer? Say it ain't so.

And $4 dollar gas with $90 oil? I better go fill up now!!!

WaterDogRem
04-06-2010, 02:51 PM
Anyone else notice that the 2009 Stimulus Bill that was needed right then and couldn't wait to be spent to save the economy, still has over 60% of the 787 Billion unspent? If we HAD to pass that stimulus package right then, why are they still holding on to over 479 Billion? :confused:

Also, anyone thinking the rest being spent running up to Nov. was their real motivation in the first place and not to save the economy back in 09?

menmon
04-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Wow!!! All the way up to $90 this summer? Really??? And just think...we're only at $87 right now. What an out-on-the-limb prediction you've made. A three dollar move in oil by summer? Say it ain't so.

And $4 dollar gas with $90 oil? I better go fill up now!!!

You better!!! Those gas lines are getting long!!!!

I could have said its going to break $100 like most people that don't know will tell you, but I don't think so. And please make note of my plus sign. We are paying $2.80 so $4.00 is aways off.

menmon
04-06-2010, 02:58 PM
Anyone else notice that the 2009 Stimulus Bill that was needed right then and couldn't wait to be spent to save the economy, still has over 60% of the 787 Billion unspent? If we HAD to pass that stimulus package right then, why are they still holding on to over 479 Billion? :confused:

Also, anyone thinking the rest being spent running up to Nov. was their real motivation in the first place and not to save the economy back in 09?


They are waiting to spend it right before the election, didn't you know that?

YardleyLabs
04-06-2010, 02:58 PM
The best and proven way to grow the economy is by helping small businesses. Not burdening them with more taxes (capital gains taxes, Cap and Tax) and not forcing them out of business by forcing them to pay more for Health Insurance.

We need to move more in the direction of a Free Market with less government interference! Let the market direct itself and stop the madness of artificial indicators set by the goobs.

WE do need reform with the major investment banking firms. They have caused many of the problems while thier top brass has walked with billions of tax payer dollars.
Actually, the health bill contains a number of benefits for small businesses, both for those that do provide benefits and those that do not. Afte owning and operating a small business for 15 years, I can safely say that I never once gave a thought to capital gains taxes. My biggest concern about the "free market" was that it seemed to benefit the Microsofts while producing no benefits at all for me (Microsoft actually audited our licenses almost every year without finding a single violation. The letters came from attorneys, but the program was coordinated by their marketing department. To avoid penalties that would have included allowing Microsoft to manage my licenses, I purchased at least 50% more licenses than I ever actually needed at a cost that rivaled the cost of employee benefits.). My biggest concern was always to find ways to be able to operate on equal footing with the big guys in access to insurance, ability to negotiate heath care pricing, ability to negotiate vendor costs such as software licenses, and ability to compete against companies using loopholes in tax rules to allow them to pay staff offshore to avoid US taxes.

menmon
04-06-2010, 03:08 PM
The best and proven way to grow the economy is by helping small businesses. Not burdening them with more taxes (capital gains taxes, Cap and Tax) and not forcing them out of business by forcing them to pay more for Health Insurance.

We need to move more in the direction of a Free Market with less government interference! Let the market direct itself and stop the madness of artificial indicators set by the goobs.

WE do need reform with the major investment banking firms. They have caused many of the problems while thier top brass has walked with billions of tax payer dollars.


The republicans want to keep it the same. The democrats are fighting them on that like they did on healthcare. Go figure!

Small business don't pay federal taxes, most of them anyway.

No one has raised taxes yet either except on dividends. Most small business owners have all their money in their businesses too, so they don't recieve many dividends.

Franco
04-06-2010, 03:19 PM
The republicans want to keep it the same. The democrats are fighting them on that like they did on healthcare. Go figure!

Small business don't pay federal taxes, most of them anyway.

No one has raised taxes yet either except on dividends. Most small business owners have all their money in their businesses too, so they don't recieve many dividends.

The Republicans are finished. The GOP is still stumbling and there is a major leadership void. Their biggest mouth pieces are two Talk Show host and a scorned woman from Alaska. Over the past several years the lable Conservative has become a negative much like the word Liberal was in the 80's and 90's. Could be because we haven't had a real Conservative in 40 years.

We need a common sense Independent to lead us out of this mess. The GOP Platform is Draconian and the Democats lean way too left for middle-America.

Small business do pay Federal taxes, at least the ones making money! I consider any business with a market cap of under a billion to be a small business. I'm not talking about the Mom and Pop stores selling ice cream. They are important too but not as likely to help the economy as much.

BonMallari
04-06-2010, 03:25 PM
You better!!! Those gas lines are getting long!!!!

I could have said its going to break $100 like most people that don't know will tell you, but I don't think so. And please make note of my plus sign. We are paying $2.80 so $4.00 is aways off.

maybe in your part of the country but I just paid $2.97 yesterday at Costco for premium....$ 4.00 is just a blink away and its not even Memorial Day

Franco
04-06-2010, 03:33 PM
maybe in your part of the country but I just paid $2.97 yesterday at Costco for premium....$ 4.00 is just a blink away and its not even Memorial Day

I paid 2.59 this morning for 87 octane.

road kill
04-06-2010, 04:15 PM
I think $90+ oil is a reality this summer, especially if the economy continues to heat up, so plan on $3.50-$4.00 gasoline. Having said this, the strengthening dollar is the best defense for rising oil prices.

And Obama will be tellin' us all about how if it wasn't for him it would be $4.50-$5.00 a gallon!!!:D



rk

Franco
04-06-2010, 04:47 PM
A quote from Stormy Daniels today on the economy...


"As I have said for well over a year, it is time that our government and our tax policy begin rewarding entrepreneurship and creativity again. It is time again to inspire positive risks and out-of-the-box thinking in the interest of growing a strong economy and a strong America.

read the entire article here...http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/04/porn_actress_stormy_daniels_sa.html

Move over Sarah, Stormy just switched party affiliation and is now a Republican!

luvmylabs23139
04-06-2010, 07:11 PM
Actually, the health bill contains a number of benefits for small businesses, both for those that do provide benefits and those that do not. Afte owning and operating a small business for 15 years, I can safely say that I never once gave a thought to capital gains taxes. My biggest concern about the "free market" was that it seemed to benefit the Microsofts while producing no benefits at all for me (Microsoft actually audited our licenses almost every year without finding a single violation. The letters came from attorneys, but the program was coordinated by their marketing department. To avoid penalties that would have included allowing Microsoft to manage my licenses, I purchased at least 50% more licenses than I ever actually needed at a cost that rivaled the cost of employee benefits.). My biggest concern was always to find ways to be able to operate on equal footing with the big guys in access to insurance, ability to negotiate heath care pricing, ability to negotiate vendor costs such as software licenses, and ability to compete against companies using loopholes in tax rules to allow them to pay staff offshore to avoid US taxes.

the health law is nothing but a redistribution of wealth SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!!!!
It will do nothing but steal hard working peoples' money and give it to the animals in the jungle!!!!! BUMMA IS A SOCIALIST !!!!! HE NEEDS TO GO NOW!!!!!

Koolaid
04-06-2010, 07:54 PM
the health law is nothing but a redistribution of wealth SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!!!!
It will do nothing but steal hard working peoples' money and give it to the animals in the jungle!!!!! BUMMA IS A SOCIALIST !!!!! HE NEEDS TO GO NOW!!!!!

Love him or hate him, Jeff presents his opinion and then provides some facts and deeper thought into why he believes what he believes. It may help your argument if you did something similar.

Jus Sayin' ;)

YardleyLabs
04-06-2010, 08:00 PM
A quote from Stormy Daniels today on the economy...


"As I have said for well over a year, it is time that our government and our tax policy begin rewarding entrepreneurship and creativity again. It is time again to inspire positive risks and out-of-the-box thinking in the interest of growing a strong economy and a strong America.

read the entire article here...http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/04/porn_actress_stormy_daniels_sa.html

Move over Sarah, Stormy just switched party affiliation and is now a Republican!
So, do you think the RNC night at the sex club convinced her that the GOP was a more welcoming home?:p:p

BonMallari
04-06-2010, 08:04 PM
Love him or hate him, Jeff presents his opinion and then provides some facts and deeper thought into why he believes what he believes. It may help your argument if you did something similar.

Jus Sayin' ;)


I dont hate Jeff , I respect him for his ability to spin his opinion,and for his intellect :D..I also respect that he is a master at dispensing BS in copius amounts at the mere drop of a hat, he must have a crack research staff of interns at his disposal or one heck of a faster computer than most :p:p

Koolaid
04-06-2010, 08:09 PM
I dont hate Jeff , I respect him for his ability to spin his opinion,and for his intellect :D..I also respect that he is a master at dispensing BS in copius amounts at the mere drop of a hat, he must have a crack research staff of interns at his disposal or one heck of a faster computer than most :p:p

Well haha, however you want to look at it. At least it looks like he takes the time rather than just capitalizing talking points. I come here to be entertained and that just doesn't do it for me ;-).

YardleyLabs
04-06-2010, 08:11 PM
I dont hate Jeff , I respect him for his ability to spin his opinion,and for his intellect :D..I also respect that he is a master at dispensing BS in copius amounts at the mere drop of a hat, he must have a crack research staff of interns at his disposal or one heck of a faster computer than most :p:p
Every photographer has been subjected to the "compliment" where someone says "What a beautiful picture. You must have a great camera." Ken Neil's response was telling a hostess after an outstanding meal "What a great meal. You must have wonderful pots." I'm thinking you paid me a similar compliment.:D:D

road kill
04-06-2010, 08:26 PM
So, do you think the RNC night at the sex club convinced her that the GOP was a more welcoming home?:p:p

HMMMMMM........been waitin for this.

Maybe we could get some "input" from Monica???






rk

BonMallari
04-06-2010, 08:33 PM
Every photographer has been subjected to the "compliment" where someone says "What a beautiful picture. You must have a great camera." Ken Neil's response was telling a hostess after an outstanding meal "What a great meal. You must have wonderful pots." I'm thinking you paid me a similar compliment.:D:D


Nope it was my way (and done poorly it seems)that you and I are on different end of the political spectrum, but I think or would like to believe we are alike on the field that really matters most, and that is on the mat, waving at the gunners and ready for the birds to drop...If it came across as a backhanded compliment, it didnt start out that way...you are an intellect I'll give you that..:D

JaBirner
04-06-2010, 09:03 PM
I became unemployed last year for just short of 5 months. I had to move away from tulsa after just moving there due to a lack of finding work.
As of late february and march my old resume searches have been getting 15-20 non-junk hits a day, as compared to the one a day while i was unemployed. My current company has had outstanding sales this last month. I beleve that this economy is slowly coming back and that employers are getting over the Shock of the economy. If it truly was bad as bad as they were expecting then they would not be hiring now. I believe that a lot of places left jobs unfilled to keep from having to terminate new employees.
I am in a field that allows me to be near a lot of "Economy indicators" (other than oil and energy) and my friends in the companies also see this growing trend. I think its "trickle down" from companies taking chances and investments. NOT government assistance. As I hear the news I try to look around for myself and see how it correlates with what i hear

Thats my 2-bits. Hope I'm at leat partially right.:rolleyes:

menmon
04-07-2010, 10:47 AM
Peolpe it is time to quit listening to the doomsayers, because every prediction they have had has been wrong, just like their prediction before the collaspe was onward and upward.

We don't need anyone new, we just needed to give the team in place time, because they are turning this thing around. Here is a list of successes so far:

Stockmarket at 11000

Most of the banks have repaid TARP and the government earned 5% interest on these loans

CitiGroup is buying the governments common stock back at 10% of daily volume and the government will make approximately $10B on the trade

GM announced this morning that they will repay the US and Canandian governemnts by June

All the experts are saying that commercial R/E is improving and we want see the downward spiral everyone was predicting...it is amazing what a little growth will do for rents

Industrial production contines to lead us out of the recession, with energy services, agriculture and tech being the driving forces

Retail is increasing it earning guidance, indicating the consumer is not afraid to spend some money

Most people have refinanced their homes at less than 5%

New home construction is coming back to life

We are continuing to see improving employment

The government has not spent a large part of the stimulas

And regarding energy prices, if the dollar continues to lead and there is nothing indicating it won't, energy prices will stay in check, and given the growth, I expect the fed to start tightening making for a much stronger dollar.



How much more proof do you need that the Glenn Beck and Beck want-to-bes are clueless and only moving their own agenda and that is selling ads for their various networks

Please get out of your way and embrace this opportunity, you probablly will never see one like it again in your lifetime.

luvmylabs23139
04-07-2010, 11:04 AM
Hmm.I just heard today the taxpayers are now on the hook for 15 billion for pensions for GM. Why the hell should I pay for that?????

Uncle Bill
04-07-2010, 11:04 AM
Peolpe it is time to quit listening to the doomsayers, because every prediction they have had has been wrong, just like their prediction before the collaspe was onward and upward.

We don't need anyone new, we just needed to give the team in place time, because they are turning this thing around. Here is a list of successes so far:

Stockmarket at 11000

Most of the banks have repaid TARP and the government earned 5% interest on these loans

CitiGroup is buying the governments common stock back at 10% of daily volume and the government will make approximately $10B on the trade

GM announced this morning that they will repay the US and Canandian governemnts by June

All the experts are saying that commercial R/E is improving and we want see the downward spiral everyone was predicting...it is amazing what a little growth will do for rents

Industrial production contines to lead us out of the recession, with energy services, agriculture and tech being the driving forces

Retail is increasing it earning guidance, indicating the consumer is not afraid to spend some money

Most people have refinanced their homes at less than 5%

New home construction is coming back to life

We are continuing to see improving employment

The government has not spent a large part of the stimulas

And regarding energy prices, if the dollar continues to lead and there is nothing indicating it won't, energy prices will stay in check, and given the growth, I expect the fed to start tightening making for a much stronger dollar.



How much more proof do you need that the Glenn Beck and Beck want-to-bes are clueless and only moving their own agenda and that is selling ads for their various networks

Please get out of your way and embrace this opportunity, you probablly will never see one like it again in your lifetime.



WOW!!! The Oracle of IHOP has spoken, and I want to make sure it is saved for posterity, so I'm quoting it here, just so it doesn't get 'edited' when the other shoe drops.

Syrupy optimism is dandy when all the bricks are in the right places. But one must remember, Sambo is selling! Why shouldn't we expect him to sound like the spider talking to the fly?

UB

Buzz
04-07-2010, 11:06 AM
And regarding energy prices, if the dollar continues to lead and there is nothing indicating it won't, energy prices will stay in check, and given the growth, I expect the fed to start tightening making for a much stronger dollar.



Please get out of your way and embrace this opportunity, you probablly will never see one like it again in your lifetime.

On energy, last night on CNBC they mentioned that the world is very well supplied in oil and that it appears to once again be speculators bringing the price up. They also said that oil has become a world currency. They argued that for some time, oil prices varied closely with the dollar, and that recently it appears the two have decoupled.


Talk about missing opportunities. Last year at this time, I had $50k in cash that I could have been ploughing into the market. Instead I conservatively dribbled in only 40% of it. It was hard enough letting what I had in there ride, but I'm sure glad I didn't panic like so many did and yank everything out at the bottom. It would have crippled any chances for a comfortable retirement.

menmon
04-07-2010, 11:16 AM
Hmm.I just heard today the taxpayers are now on the hook for 15 billion for pensions for GM. Why the hell should I pay for that?????

Who was your source....Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Hanity, Bill O'Realy, Etc.?

Buzz
04-07-2010, 11:28 AM
Who was your source....Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Hanity, Bill O'Realy, Etc.?

I guess that crew would have to assume that GM will fail.


http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/90056937.html


Automakers General Motors and Chrysler will need to put billions of dollars into their pension plans over the next five years to meet their funding requirements, the Government Accountability Office said Tuesday.
The GAO concluded that GM will have to add $12.3 billion by 2014, while Chrysler is expected to need $2.62 billion more during that time for its pension plan to keep it properly funded.
GM and Chrysler both went through government-orchestrated Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection last year. They emerged as newly restructured companies that were able to shed huge debts but remained responsible for the pension plans of thousands of workers and retirees.
The GAO said in a report that the future of those plans "remains uncertain" as the companies struggle to make money again.
Chrysler and GM will be able to meet their funding needs if they are profitable, the GAO said. The Treasury Department, which oversees the government's sizable stake in the two companies, believes that will happen.
But if GM and Chrysler falter and are forced to terminate their pensions, the government's Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation insurance program would have to absorb $14.5 billion worth of company obligations to workers.
GM has roughly 702,000 people covered under its pension plans for hourly and salaried employees. Chrysler's collection of plans covers about 254,000 retirees and employees.
Greg Martin, a spokesman for GM, said the company "continues to believe our pension plans are adequately funded to meet current obligations." Chrysler said in a statement that "we fully expect to meet our obligations to our customers, business partners, employees, retirees and to the U.S. and Canadian taxpayers."
The auto industry's deep struggles with falling auto sales and high legacy costs like health care and retirement benefits have wreaked havoc with company pension plans.
In January 2009, the PBGC estimated that automakers, parts suppliers and other companies in the industry had combined underfunded pension liabilities of $77 billion. The GAO estimated that GM's plan was $13.6 billion underfunded in 2009, while Chrysler's pension was $3.4 billion short.

luvmylabs23139
04-07-2010, 11:32 AM
Bottom line, why should tax payers bail out any unfunded Union pensions??????
MY retirement has gone in the tank which is my problem. Should not it be on those for their own?

menmon
04-07-2010, 11:38 AM
On energy, last night on CNBC they mentioned that the world is very well supplied in oil and that it appears to once again be speculators bringing the price up. They also said that oil has become a world currency. They argued that for some time, oil prices varied closely with the dollar, and that recently it appears the two have decoupled.


Talk about missing opportunities. Last year at this time, I had $50k in cash that I could have been ploughing into the market. Instead I conservatively dribbled in only 40% of it. It was hard enough letting what I had in there ride, but I'm sure glad I didn't panic like so many did and yank everything out at the bottom. It would have crippled any chances for a comfortable retirement.

The way this game is played...the major oil companies let the spectulators drive up prices so that they can hedge above the market. I don't have the balls to get in front of that bulldozer, knowing that the fed could raise rates at the wrong time and that dozer would run right over me. Spectulating in that market is like picking up dimes in front of a bulldozer. It is very profitable as long as the dozer doesn't run over you. A few months ago, quite a few got run over when the dollar started rebounding.

The close corrilation between oil and the dollar was because of the lack of demand for oil. In other words, when demand was not a factor of price, the only meaningful varable was the value of the dollar. Having said that, since oil trades on the world market, the purchasing power of the dollar to other currencies is very relative, but as you pointed out, it is not the only varible.

It is nice to discuss this stuff with someone that can think for theirself.

Thanks

menmon
04-07-2010, 11:44 AM
Bottom line, why should tax payers bail out any unfunded Union pensions??????
MY retirement has gone in the tank which is my problem. Should not it be on those for their own?

It might have paid you to have paid some union dues over the years. It does not hurt to have someone looking out for your interest. I know that GM and Crysler and the likes could care less about you.

Franco
04-07-2010, 12:41 PM
It might have paid you to have paid some union dues over the years. It does not hurt to have someone looking out for your interest. I know that GM and Crysler and the likes could care less about you.

We can thank the unions for killing mfging in this country! Unions equal low productivity and inferior goods. Just ask Detroit.

Buzz
04-07-2010, 12:52 PM
We can thank the unions for killing mfging in this country! Unions equal low productivity and inferior goods. Just ask Detroit.


When I worked for one of the world's biggest electrical manufacturers, I helped relocate 2 factories offshore. Neither was union, and neither paid very high wages.

We all live in the 3rd world now.

menmon
04-07-2010, 02:20 PM
Many union worker has made sacrifices to get healthcare, retirement and good working condition, not to mention better wages for you, and all you do is bash them. The word "scab" kind of seems appropriate when you think of it that way.

luvmylabs23139
04-07-2010, 02:31 PM
It might have paid you to have paid some union dues over the years. It does not hurt to have someone looking out for your interest. I know that GM and Crysler and the likes could care less about you.
Good lord. Look at all the goof offs the Unions protected! High seniority stays even if they are a rotten worker while the low seniority hard worker gets laid off. BS!!!!:(:(:(

luvmylabs23139
04-07-2010, 02:33 PM
It might have paid you to have paid some union dues over the years. It does not hurt to have someone looking out for your interest. I know that GM and Crysler and the likes could care less about you.

When I was in a college working part time at a grocery store I had to pay union dues. THEY SCREWED all the parttimers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I HATE UNIONS!!!!

menmon
04-07-2010, 03:51 PM
I've worked both union and non-union...and I'll be the first to say...you don't have to have a union card to be a good hand, but I found the quality of labor over all on the union jobs better, because the unions had training, where the non-union guys didn't have formal training...the better ones had been union though.

Regarding the part-timer....you needed to thank those union workers..because they were making sure you got as good of a wage as you did because of their efforts long before you decided you need beer money.

As for as goof-offs...that sounds like a management issue

menmon
04-07-2010, 04:17 PM
When I was in a college working part time at a grocery store I had to pay union dues. THEY SCREWED all the parttimers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I HATE UNIONS!!!!

Everyone has to pay their dues...that is a fact of life! And I'm guessing, you being in college, hadn't paid any yet.

The point I keep trying to make is: most of us, whether we are students, bankers, construction works, clerks, teachers, nurses, etc. need to help each other, whether we are picketting an unsafe coal mine, tutoring a child that does not have the advantages as us, or trying to get a raise.

This right wing bullshit that everyone is rutting for is not the principles we became great on and made us all have opportunities for success. Just because someone belongs to a union does not make them bad. I know many men that can do a better days work than me, but wouldn't stand a chance asking for a raise to help them care for their family. I know men who's children have gotten in trouble in their youth that would have tarnished their lives if it had not been for a call from the union hall to the judge that was trying the case. These men need unions because they are not businessmen and their trade does not afford them lawyers or other advantages.

Guys you need to stop drinking the wine they are selling!

Franco
04-07-2010, 04:28 PM
This right wing bullshit that everyone is rutting for is not the principles we became great on and made us all have opportunities for success.



Oh, I get it, what made us great were the Entitlement Programs, appeasement for our enemies and spending printed and borrowed money like there is no tomorrow!

ducknwork
04-07-2010, 04:55 PM
I know men who's children have gotten in trouble in their youth that would have tarnished their lives if it had not been for a call from the union hall to the judge that was trying the case.

Wow, that sounds totally fair!:rolleyes:

Buzz
04-07-2010, 05:54 PM
Wow, that sounds totally fair!:rolleyes:

When I lived in Fairfield Ohio, I knew a city police officer. He told me that the biggest crime problems in the area were the children of doctors and lawyers - drug dealing, violence, robbery, bad checks, you name it. They get into trouble and their parents bail them out, and they know it and expect it. He said that the blue collar and poor kids were easier to deal with because they knew if they got into trouble, they were going down.

YardleyLabs
04-07-2010, 06:47 PM
Bottom line, why should tax payers bail out any unfunded Union pensions??????
MY retirement has gone in the tank which is my problem. Should not it be on those for their own?
What makes you think that the guarantees are limited to union plans?

As taxpayers we are all paying for a number of pension programs already, including many where managers and shareholders have benefited hugely by bringing their companies out of bankruptcy after sticking us with the pension bill. In theory, benefits are paid solely based on premiums paid by covered plans, assets acquired from bankruptcies, etc. In fact, however, these assets and revenues may not be sufficient to pay all future obligations. One problem is that pension obligations are considered in the same class as unsecured creditors, which has allowed many companies -- particularly the airlines -- to bail on their financial obligations inappropriately. Examples of pension funds where benefits are now paid by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation include:


Allegheny Health Educ. & Research
Allis Chalmers
Anchor Glass
Arrow Automotive
Bethlehem Steel
Bradlees
Caldor Corporation
Circuit City
Collins & Aikman
Cone Mills
Consolidated Freightways
Delphi Corporation
Delta Pilots
Durango Apparel
Eastern Air Lines
Fairchild Corporation
Fleming
Grand Union
Hartmarx Corporation
Harvard Industries
Hayes Lemmerz International, Inc.
Henry I. Siegel Co.
J.A. Jones
Jacobson Stores
Kaiser Aluminum
Kaiser Steel
Kemper
Lehman Brothers
LTV Steel
McCulloch
Metaldyne Corporation
National Steel
Nortel Networks Inc.
Northwestern Steel and Wire
Outboard Marine
Payless Cashways
Penn Traffic
Petrie
Piccadilly Cafeterias
Polaroid<
Reliance Insurance
Republic Technologies
Singer Company
Thorn Apple Valley
TWA
United Airlines
United Merchants and Manufacturers
US Airways
Weirton Stee
Westpoint Stevens
Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel

menmon
04-08-2010, 10:11 AM
What makes you think that the guarantees are limited to union plans?

As taxpayers we are all paying for a number of pension programs already, including many where managers and shareholders have benefited hugely by bringing their companies out of bankruptcy after sticking us with the pension bill. In theory, benefits are paid solely based on premiums paid by covered plans, assets acquired from bankruptcies, etc. In fact, however, these assets and revenues may not be sufficient to pay all future obligations. One problem is that pension obligations are considered in the same class as unsecured creditors, which has allowed many companies -- particularly the airlines -- to bail on their financial obligations inappropriately. Examples of pension funds where benefits are now paid by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation include:


Allegheny Health Educ. & Research
Allis Chalmers
Anchor Glass
Arrow Automotive
Bethlehem Steel
Bradlees
Caldor Corporation
Circuit City
Collins & Aikman
Cone Mills
Consolidated Freightways
Delphi Corporation
Delta Pilots
Durango Apparel
Eastern Air Lines
Fairchild Corporation
Fleming
Grand Union
Hartmarx Corporation
Harvard Industries
Hayes Lemmerz International, Inc.
Henry I. Siegel Co.
J.A. Jones
Jacobson Stores
Kaiser Aluminum
Kaiser Steel
Kemper
Lehman Brothers
LTV Steel
McCulloch
Metaldyne Corporation
National Steel
Nortel Networks Inc.
Northwestern Steel and Wire
Outboard Marine
Payless Cashways
Penn Traffic
Petrie
Piccadilly Cafeterias
Polaroid<
Reliance Insurance
Republic Technologies
Singer Company
Thorn Apple Valley
TWA
United Airlines
United Merchants and Manufacturers
US Airways
Weirton Stee
Westpoint Stevens
Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel

Just to be clear....most pension plans are secured....it is the underfunded part that is unsecured and para pasu with the other unsecured lenders.

Where is this coming from that we are paying the pensions liabilities of failed companies?

menmon
04-08-2010, 10:13 AM
Wow, that sounds totally fair!:rolleyes:

I think there are many cases where a young man makes a bad decision and needs someone to give them a second chance....most of us would be in jail and unable to vote (maybe a good thing) if we had paid for our crimes.

Not everyone is perfect like you.

ducknwork
04-08-2010, 11:59 AM
I'm definitely not perfect, but I never did (or wanted to do) anything that would have sent me to jail if I got busted. It's called maturity and intelligence.;)

Maybe if people were punished for what they did (instead of being able to get off because of money or connections or BS lawyers or whatever else), others around them would rethink the decisions they are making and change their actions in order to avoid the risk of 'tarnishing their lives'.

Explain how it is right that two people can do the same crime and one gets jailtime while the other gets off because some union boss that goes drinking with the judges makes a call for him. Please.

YardleyLabs
04-08-2010, 12:38 PM
Just to be clear....most pension plans are secured....it is the underfunded part that is unsecured and para pasu with the other unsecured lenders.

Where is this coming from that we are paying the pensions liabilities of failed companies?
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation was established in 1974 as part of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA). For contribution programs such as 401(k) plans, ERISA established procedures for defining fiduciary responsibilities to protect employee assets. For defined benefit plans -- which used to be the norm in major corporations of all kinds -- ERISA established the PBGC in a manner similar to the approach used to protect deposits in commercial and savings banks. The risks were not unreasonable at the time since most such plans were financed very conservatively. However, during the Reagan years accounting rules were changed to relax the actuarial rules governing financing for pensions and to permit assets to be transferred out of these plans and be counted as current profits. This led to bidding wars as speculators bought up companies with "overfunded" pension plans, turned the excess funding into current profits and management bonuses, and then sold off the remaining company. Unfortunately, the level of funding that was required was well below the level of funding actually needed to pay off the pension benefits. The raided companies went off on their own -- usually saddled with excessive debt financed through junk bonds. Many went bankrupt, leaving the PBGC holding the bad for the unfunded portion. For those companies that continued to operate under Chapter 11, one way of making the books balance was to avid paying even the current cost of the pension plans. Courts have permitted this to happen. A current example is US Air which makes no payments toward current obligations to its pension plan but continues to operate and pay bonuses to those making the decisions not to pay those bills.

menmon
04-08-2010, 12:44 PM
I have watched a lot of good kids get in trouble because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And as parents, we try to raise them right but they get smarter than we are at about 16 and some mature faster than others.

You made my point for me though.

A hard working pipe fitter or electrician doesn't have the resources on his own many times to help his kid out of a bad situation, nor can he negotate a very much needed raise, nor can he keep them from firing him when he gets older. This is the power of collective bargining for anything! Kind of like you Tea Party...don't agree with them, but respect them.

As for manufacturing is concerned...unions did not kill it, the global economy did. Just ask Mexico, because our manufacturing moved there then when China became cheaper, it went to China

Marvin S
04-08-2010, 12:55 PM
I think there are many cases where a young man makes a bad decision and needs someone to give them a second chance....most of us would be in jail and unable to vote (maybe a good thing) if we had paid for our crimes.

In order to expand your horizon somewhat try reading the Bell Curve. People make bad decisions for a reason. I'll let you figure that out on your own :).

As for your financial prognostications, I get a newsletter from Kiplinger that does not agree with you.

But from the real world - last years income down 42% in our household, mainly due to savings that are not earning a real return. Who caused that - they were testifying today in front of Congress. I lay a lot of the blame on Robert Rubin, Clinton's Treasury Secretary for encouraging the chicom's to get into our treasury market. He stated today "We didn't see this coming", I could why didn't he?

I have 3 sons who own Small businesses, 1 with a law firm, he is managing partner & they added another attorney. 1 with a farmstead artisan cheese making business, he is just about to make enough to pay bills & works 16 hours a day 7 days a week, but makes great cheese. & 1 with a construction company over 75% of his people are on unemployment so the recovery looks somewhat jobless from his view.

But you keep believing that Pelosi (notice that BBG) & see where it gets you. I'll just plant a bigger garden this year & share with those who need a hand up.

Buzz
04-08-2010, 12:59 PM
As for manufacturing is concerned...unions did not kill it, the global economy did. Just ask Mexico, because our manufacturing moved there then when China became cheaper, it went to China


I was in a meeting with top management at a factory in Guadalajara Mexico. We were moving manufacturing down there from Arkansas. The CEO was visiting from Germany to attend It was during the debate over NAFTA. He told me that "your USA politicians are either very stupid, or they are lying to your citizens. They are telling you that wages will rise here and these people will become customers for your products. They could not be more wrong. For all intents and purposes, the global supply of labor is infinite. If wages rise here, the work will go elsewhere."

I hate to keep beating the drum about energy prices, but they are the one credible threat to the global economy as we know it.

Buzz
04-08-2010, 01:01 PM
Who caused that - they were testifying today in front of Congress. I lay a lot of the blame on Richard Rubin, Clinton's Treasury Secretary for encouraging the chicom's to get into our treasury market. He stated today "We didn't see this coming", I could why didn't he?


Based on this comment, I believe that this is an article that you'll agree with.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/07/AR2010040702494.html

Marvin S
04-08-2010, 01:26 PM
Based on this comment, I believe that this is an article that you'll agree with.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/07/AR2010040702494.html

Interesting - they believe themselves entitled :o . But on a similar vein, the public treasury is being raided on the local level with severance pay going to many officials being RIF'd due to incompetence. It needs to stop!!

Julie R.
04-08-2010, 01:43 PM
This right wing bullshit that everyone is rutting for is not the principles we became great on and made us all have opportunities for success. Just because someone belongs to a union does not make them bad. I know many men that can do a better days work than me, but wouldn't stand a chance asking for a raise to help them care for their family. I know men who's children have gotten in trouble in their youth that would have tarnished their lives if it had not been for a call from the union hall to the judge that was trying the case. These men need unions because they are not businessmen and their trade does not afford them lawyers or other advantages.

Guys you need to stop drinking the wine they are selling!
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/th_TLBsign.gif

Franco already pointed this out, but I suppose you think the left wing stuff like entitlement programs, forcing banks to make loans to minorities even if they aren't credit-worthy, pouring stimulus money into failed companies, piling burdensome tax and insurance costs on businesses and turning the U.S. into a nanny state with a bureau or appointed czar to micromanage every decision a person might make is what made this country great?
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/th_LMAO.jpg


And on what planet did you and Buzz huff the jenkem dream that the sons and daughters of the wealthy are the ones bedeviling the courts and jails and overworking the police departments? Or are you drunk off the union whine? Sorry to burst this bubble but it's the spawn of parents who don't give a d*mn and have babies so they can get bigger government checks who are the majority of young criminals and the most violent offenders by anyone's standard.

It's not the rich kids that are the sociopaths shooting each other over athletic shoes, drug deals and bling today. Like the 14 year old in D.C. last week that sprayed bullets injuring and/or killing TEN PEOPLE over a bracelet! The privileged child makes better copy for the media because violent, vicious crimes by them are rare. Open any newspaper in any major city in the U.S. and not a day goes by where there's not a similar story to D.C.'s juvenile gunman. So put that in your crock and drink it :cool:

road kill
04-08-2010, 01:46 PM
I think there are many cases where a young man makes a bad decision and needs someone to give them a second chance....most of us would be in jail and unable to vote (maybe a good thing) if we had paid for our crimes.

Not everyone is perfect like you.

I think you should speak for your self.

Some of us actually had parents who loved us and taught us right from wrong.
Don't assume everyone is like you, they aren't!!:D




rk

Buzz
04-08-2010, 02:07 PM
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/th_TLBsign.gif

Franco already pointed this out, but I suppose you think the left wing stuff like entitlement programs, forcing banks to make loans to minorities even if they aren't credit-worthy, pouring stimulus money into failed companies, piling burdensome tax and insurance costs on businesses and turning the U.S. into a nanny state with a bureau or appointed czar to micromanage every decision a person might make is what made this country great?
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/th_LMAO.jpg


And on what planet did you and Buzz huff the jenkem dream that the sons and daughters of the wealthy are the ones bedeviling the courts and jails and overworking the police departments? Or are you drunk off the union whine? Sorry to burst this bubble but it's the spawn of parents who don't give a d*mn and have babies so they can get bigger government checks who are the majority of young criminals and the most violent offenders by anyone's standard.

It's not the rich kids that are the sociopaths shooting each other over athletic shoes, drug deals and bling today. Like the 14 year old in D.C. last week that sprayed bullets injuring and/or killing TEN PEOPLE over a bracelet! The privileged child makes better copy for the media because violent, vicious crimes by them are rare. Open any newspaper in any major city in the U.S. and not a day goes by where there's not a similar story to D.C.'s juvenile gunman. So put that in your crock and drink it :cool:


You'll have to take that up with the cop that dealt with and used to complain about them. He wasn't dealing with ghetto kids, it was a middle/upper class area.

Julie R.
04-08-2010, 02:17 PM
You'll have to take that up with the cop that dealt with and used to complain about them. He wasn't dealing with ghetto kids, it was a middle/upper class area.

I don't doubt that cops working in wealthy suburbs probably have to deal with some rich brats that are used to being enabled by their parents. But I'd bet many cops on the ghetto beat would trade jobs with your cop friend in a nano-second. My point was that the upper- and middle-class kids are but a miniscule fraction of juvenile crime--a point that seems lost on Sambo.

menmon
04-08-2010, 03:20 PM
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation was established in 1974 as part of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA). For contribution programs such as 401(k) plans, ERISA established procedures for defining fiduciary responsibilities to protect employee assets. For defined benefit plans -- which used to be the norm in major corporations of all kinds -- ERISA established the PBGC in a manner similar to the approach used to protect deposits in commercial and savings banks. The risks were not unreasonable at the time since most such plans were financed very conservatively. However, during the Reagan years accounting rules were changed to relax the actuarial rules governing financing for pensions and to permit assets to be transferred out of these plans and be counted as current profits. This led to bidding wars as speculators bought up companies with "overfunded" pension plans, turned the excess funding into current profits and management bonuses, and then sold off the remaining company. Unfortunately, the level of funding that was required was well below the level of funding actually needed to pay off the pension benefits. The raided companies went off on their own -- usually saddled with excessive debt financed through junk bonds. Many went bankrupt, leaving the PBGC holding the bad for the unfunded portion. For those companies that continued to operate under Chapter 11, one way of making the books balance was to avid paying even the current cost of the pension plans. Courts have permitted this to happen. A current example is US Air which makes no payments toward current obligations to its pension plan but continues to operate and pay bonuses to those making the decisions not to pay those bills.

Ok I see where you are coming from.

With regard to US Air....I understand the unfairness, but I also understand why they pay bonuses too.

The current financial crisis is a perfect example...why should bailout money pay bonuses when I'm losing my house is the question. Because if you don't have that top employee that was only doing his job when things went bad, not the one in charge of risk management when things failed, you can't recovery and pay back the bailout money.

Year ago, not so much anymore, companies were valued less than their assets, making leveraged buyouts very posible. Having said that, you can argue that these greedy individuals corrected an inefficency in the market. Does change the fact that people suffered at their pursuit of wealth.

These things effect hard working honest people, and for all the good of capitalizm, this is a bad side-effect, for lack of a better word. This is the take off of darwin, survival of the fitest. So while somebody gets fat, good people go without. This system will always work this way and it is the best way, but we have to be charitable and help the ones its fails. So I don't have a problem taxing KKR, do you?

menmon
04-08-2010, 03:31 PM
I don't doubt that cops working in wealthy suburbs probably have to deal with some rich brats that are used to being enabled by their parents. But I'd bet many cops on the ghetto beat would trade jobs with your cop friend in a nano-second. My point was that the upper- and middle-class kids are but a miniscule fraction of juvenile crime--a point that seems lost on Sambo.

Those kids don't have parents is the problem. Lets make it personal. Let's say your kid went to a party at one of their schools friends house when their parents were away, and lets say the police were call out because of the noise and found cocaine, so they all were arrested including your kid. Now you are working two jobs and your husband is working three so that you can have your kid in this great school district but you don't have money to hire a good lawyer that can argue "wrong-place-wrong-time" so your kid gets a public defender and he loses and albeit they serve in jail time, your child has a felony on their record.

It would have been nice to have had a friend that was friends with the judge, don't you think?

Franco
04-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Those kids don't have parents is the problem. Lets make it personal. Let's say your kid went to a party at one of their schools friends house when their parents were away, and lets say the police were call out because of the noise and found cocaine, so they all were arrested including your kid. Now you are working two jobs and your husband is working three so that you can have your kid in this great school district but you don't have money to hire a good lawyer that can argue "wrong-place-wrong-time" so your kid gets a public defender and he loses and albeit they serve in jail time, your child has a felony on their record.

It would have been nice to have had a friend that was friends with the judge, don't you think?

I've never read of a first time juvenile offender, under your senario getting sentenced to jail.

BonMallari
04-08-2010, 03:48 PM
Those kids don't have parents is the problem. Lets make it personal. Let's say your kid went to a party at one of their schools friends house when their parents were away, and lets say the police were call out because of the noise and found cocaine, so they all were arrested including your kid. Now you are working two jobs and your husband is working three so that you can have your kid in this great school district but you don't have money to hire a good lawyer that can argue "wrong-place-wrong-time" so your kid gets a public defender and he loses and albeit they serve in jail time, your child has a felony on their record.

It would have been nice to have had a friend that was friends with the judge, don't you think?

I have a couple of friends who are judges here in Vegas and I can assure you that they dont work that way. they would advise me on who to get legal help from and recuse themselves from a case where a personal friends family member came under their jurisdiction. For you to suggest that a call from a union person would be able to sway a judges mind is an insult to honest judges...and yes I belong to a union , Culinary # 226

ducknwork
04-08-2010, 04:50 PM
Those kids don't have parents is the problem. Lets make it personal. Let's say your kid went to a party at one of their schools friends house when their parents were away, and lets say the police were call out because of the noise and found cocaine, so they all were arrested including your kid. Now you are working two jobs and your husband is working three so that you can have your kid in this great school district but you don't have money to hire a good lawyer that can argue "wrong-place-wrong-time" so your kid gets a public defender and he loses and albeit they serve in jail time, your child has a felony on their record.

It would have been nice to have had a friend that was friends with the judge, don't you think?

So now we get to the root of the problem. Parenting. I'll say this-my kids won't be in that situation, because I care enough about them that I won't allow them to attend that party. And if they are to attend a party, you can bet that I'll be making sure the parents hear from me first. Raising your kids right will go a long way to prevent many, many problems. A kid that is being raised right would know that they either a) shouldn't go to a party like that or b) when they find out about the coke (or pot, or drinking, etc), they'll leave.

Now I opened the door for WRL to come and tell me I am stupid and don't know anything about parenting again...:rolleyes:

menmon
04-09-2010, 10:29 AM
We all try to be good parents....but if you think that your kids don't have secrets when they get into their late teens...just think back to the secrets you kept from your parent.

Furthermore, my point on this is that it pays to have someone with influence in your court. Strong unions is some town, Las Vegas being one, play a big roll in electing the local officials that help move an agenda that is pro labor.

And if you are a laborer, that is a good thing.

Buzz
04-09-2010, 10:34 AM
I take care of myself and am healthy. I don't need to worry about getting sick, being unable to work, and losing my health insurance.

I'm a good parent, so I don't need to worry about my kids getting in trouble.

Are you beginning to see a pattern here?

luvmylabs23139
04-09-2010, 10:58 AM
We all try to be good parents....but if you think that your kids don't have secrets when they get into their late teens...just think back to the secrets you kept from your parent.

Furthermore, my point on this is that it pays to have someone with influence in your court. Strong unions is some town, Las Vegas being one, play a big roll in electing the local officials that help move an agenda that is pro labor.

And if you are a laborer, that is a good thing.

Huh? Breaking the law is breaking the law!!!!
I never had anything to hide from my parents other than the rare bad test grade that wasn't ever an issue because one bad test didn't screw up a semester grade. Getting a C on a test really isn't a huge hiding from the parents issue.

menmon
04-09-2010, 10:59 AM
I take care of myself and am healthy. I don't need to worry about getting sick, being unable to work, and losing my health insurance.

I'm a good parent, so I don't need to worry about my kids getting in trouble.

Are you beginning to see a pattern here?


They have perfect lives...what happen to me?

ducknwork
04-09-2010, 11:40 AM
About the only thing I hid from my parents was the time I got Saturday detention in high school for super glueing a girl to her seat. It ripped her jeans and the asst. principal (family friend) didn't tell my parents but expected me to do it...Needless to say, I told my parents (who were very strict and I knew I'd be in trouble) that I had an SAT study hall at school that Saturday.;) And I bought the girl a new pair of jeans. With MY money that I earned working at MY job (at 15).

Raymond Little
04-09-2010, 04:43 PM
There are various economic indicators that are used to determine health and performance of the economy. They have been around much longer than the internet too.

I realize republicans what the economy to perform badly so that they can blame it on the democrats, but I'm for letting the democrats win this one.

$90 oil $4 gas doesn't have anything to do with a Heated up Economy. The people in the know are worried Isreal is going to turn Iran and Almond Joy into a glass factory.:D

dnf777
04-09-2010, 05:10 PM
Strongest job growth in 3 years....

Biggest jump in consumer confidence in 10 years....

Dow three points away from 11,000

Come on righties, lets hear how that's BAD for America!

JDogger
04-09-2010, 05:17 PM
Strongest job growth in 3 years....

Biggest jump in consumer confidence in 10 years....

Dow three points away from 11,000

Come on righties, lets hear how that's BAD for America!


You know the answer Dave.


http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll176/JDoggger/icanthearyou.jpg

dnf777
04-09-2010, 05:21 PM
You know the answer Dave.


http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll176/JDoggger/icanthearyou.jpg

Yes, but it should be entertaining to hear the contortions and twisting, rather than a simple, "yeah, things look better than a year ago" :p

ducknwork
04-09-2010, 05:23 PM
Okay, well those things look better than a year ago. I have to agree with that...

I'm just concerned about what's below the surface...you know, the shaky foundation that this recovery is built upon. Hope I'm worried about nothing!

Marvin S
04-09-2010, 06:11 PM
Yes, but it should be entertaining to hear the contortions and twisting, rather than a simple, "yeah, things look better than a year ago" :p

You could explain your line of pelosi to someone who is underemployed or the person who would like a job but probably won't see anything resembling one for some time :rolleyes: . A lot of people are still living on their life's equity & it's running out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dnf777
04-09-2010, 08:54 PM
You could explain your line of pelosi to someone who is underemployed or the person who would like a job but probably won't see anything resembling one for some time :rolleyes: . A lot of people are still living on their life's equity & it's running out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you look at the unemployment time line, you can see that the unemployed person has GWB to thank.

But I agree with DNW, we are on shaky ground. Nobody is pretending we're on easy street. Not until we get some factories and mills fired back up. Or something that generates true wealth. It may piss off our allies, but I think NAFTA needs some serious re-tooling. One of Obama's campaign pillars yet to be acted upon.

Marvin S
04-09-2010, 10:09 PM
If you look at the unemployment time line, you can see that the unemployed person has GWB to thank.

In case you missed something, the office of POTUS ELECT was established in November 2008. Someone with the assumed talent of Dear Leader should have been able to make that turn around by now. It is no longer Bush's hand on the throttle, it is Dear Leader's :confused: ?

ducknwork
04-10-2010, 08:15 AM
But I agree with DNW, we are on shaky ground. Nobody is pretending we're on easy street. Not until we get some factories and mills fired back up. It may piss off our allies, but I think NAFTA needs some serious re-tooling. One of Obama's campaign pillars yet to be acted upon.

One might think that should have been a higher priority than health care reform...Millions of people going back to work would have gone a long way in insuring the currently uninsured...

What is the current estimate of uninsured? What was that number before everyone started losing their jobs? See where I'm going?

Interestingly enough, the factory I work in just went to running 6 10's indefinitely (we would do 11's, but our suppliers can't keep up)...We make washers and dryers. Our orders jumped about 30k last month and we are already 8k in back order. Go figure...

YardleyLabs
04-10-2010, 08:28 AM
One might think that should have been a higher priority than health care reform...Millions of people going back to work would have gone a long way in insuring the currently uninsured...

What is the current estimate of uninsured? What was that number before everyone started losing their jobs? See where I'm going?

Interestingly enough, the factory I work in just went to running 6 10's indefinitely (we would do 11's, but our suppliers can't keep up)...We make washers and dryers. Our orders jumped about 30k last month and we are already 8k in back order. Go figure...
It seems to me that the economy was clearly the first priority for the administration. They began working on the stimulus bill before the inauguration and won its adoption within a few weeks with an accelerated rollout of tax cuts that began affecting the economy almost immediately. What you are seeing at your plant seems to be happening throughout the economy and is a good sign for all of us.

The reality is that when it comes to stimulating the economy, less is often more. Once you decide on a course of action, you implement it and then stay out of the way. If you keep throwing more logs on the fire you are more likely to burn the house down than you are to make it warm up more quickly.

subroc
04-10-2010, 08:41 AM
let me know when it hits 13000

ducknwork
04-10-2010, 11:41 AM
It seems to me that the economy was clearly the first priority for the administration. They began working on the stimulus bill before the inauguration and won its adoption within a few weeks with an accelerated rollout of tax cuts that began affecting the economy almost immediately. What you are seeing at your plant seems to be happening throughout the economy and is a good sign for all of us.

The reality is that when it comes to stimulating the economy, less is often more. Once you decide on a course of action, you implement it and then stay out of the way. If you keep throwing more logs on the fire you are more likely to burn the house down than you are to make it warm up more quickly.

I was referring to the NAFTA comment that DNF made. It would sure be nice to keep (or bring back) jobs on this side of the borders.

dnf777
04-10-2010, 03:20 PM
I was referring to the NAFTA comment that DNF made. It would sure be nice to keep (or bring back) jobs on this side of the borders.

NAFTA. Five little letters. It carries the meaning of major political reconstruction of other nations, to allow the working class's standard of living to rise to near ours, something that would decrease the corporate profits of major Asian industries. I guarantee they won't have any of that! It took union miners, teamsters, UAW workers, and others blood, sweat and tears to give our country the middle class standard of living, that we are now seeing slip away. Andrew Carnegie didn't voluntarily give decent wages to his workers.

Either that, or our middle class must accept the standard of living that the average Chinese or Malaysian worker does, in order for our factories to ever be anything other than mothballed.

Don't know which is more likely to happen, but I know what I'd prefer! With globalization, it's hard to ignore the disparate living conditions. Easy for us, but not for other countries such as India and China. The diffusion barriers have been removed, and we're seeing an averaging out of economies. And we've always had it good, so we're feeling it the most.

Terry Britton
04-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Either that, or our middle class must accept the standard of living that the average Chinese or Malaysian worker does, in order for our factories to ever be anything other than mothballed.

.

Or we can continue to educate ourselves, develop more engineers, and allow them to innovate out on the cutting edge of technology. Innovation is the only way we will sustain growth, but we are developing way too many policies to kill that growth and the middle class with entitlement programs, over spending, and taxes.

dnf777
04-11-2010, 03:12 PM
Or we can continue to educate ourselves, develop more engineers, and allow them to innovate out on the cutting edge of technology. Innovation is the only way we will sustain growth, but we are developing way too many policies to kill that growth and the middle class with entitlement programs, over spending, and taxes.

Takes more than that. I know three engineering grads working retail jobs looking for work in their field. (not willing to move to China either!) NAFTA has killed more jobs than food stamps ever will!

Buzz
04-12-2010, 09:11 AM
Or we can continue to educate ourselves, develop more engineers, and allow them to innovate out on the cutting edge of technology. Innovation is the only way we will sustain growth, but we are developing way too many policies to kill that growth and the middle class with entitlement programs, over spending, and taxes.


A country that doesn't build anything doesn't need engineers.

A lot of your views remind me a lot of my own, before I worked as a practicing engineer for over 25 years watching Wall Street, Washington, and the MBA's systematically dismantle our manufacturing base.

ducknwork
04-12-2010, 12:05 PM
I think it is interesting that I work for a german owned company here in NC...they put this plant here about 8 years ago. When the economy was really bad last year, we were all concerned about it shutting down. The bigwigs told us that having a factory in the US was absolutely critical to the success that they want to have in North America. They basically implied that if our units were built somewhere else (out of the US) they would not be able to compete in NA. Why is that?:confused:

Jim Wetzler
04-12-2010, 12:29 PM
Strongest job growth in 3 years....

Biggest jump in consumer confidence in 10 years....

Dow three points away from 11,000

Come on righties, lets hear how that's BAD for America!

Lets see, New York state is broke, most school districts are laying off.
Last years teacher grads are working at Wally World because they can't find a job.
New York taxes are out of control.
Its not all wine and roses around here.

Marvin S
04-12-2010, 12:48 PM
A country that doesn't build anything doesn't need engineers.

A lot of your views remind me a lot of my own, before I worked as a practicing engineer for over 25 years watching Wall Street, Washington, and the MBA's systematically dismantle our manufacturing base.

The country needs the logical, level headed thought process that goes with an engineering &/or solid scientific education. Can you imagine where our country would be if DC was populated by engineers rather than attorneys. There would be no excuse for the bad numbers we see being generated daily :cool: .

Blackstone
04-12-2010, 01:54 PM
Hmm.I just heard today the taxpayers are now on the hook for 15 billion for pensions for GM. Why the hell should I pay for that?????

The government would only be on the hook for pensions if GM fails and goes bankrupt. The actual figure is closer to $12 bil. However, as previously noted, GM’s sales are up, and they expect to be able to repay government loans by June. Doesn’t sound like the likelihood of the government getting stuck paying pensions is very high.

On the other hand, Toyota is sticking the Fed with a $131-million pension shortfall as it closes the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA.

dnf777
04-12-2010, 02:43 PM
Lets see, New York state is broke, most school districts are laying off.
Last years teacher grads are working at Wally World because they can't find a job.
New York taxes are out of control.
Its not all wine and roses around here.

Nobody said it was. But would you agree that adding 316,000 jobs is better than losing 800,000? States, just like the federal gov't, are seeing decreased tax revenues due to the Bush recession. Unlike the federal gov't, they can't just print more money, or borrow from China.

ducknwork
04-12-2010, 04:59 PM
Nobody said it was. But would you agree that adding 316,000 jobs is better than losing 800,000? States, just like the federal gov't, are seeing decreased tax revenues due to the American recession. Unlike the federal gov't, they can't just print more money, or borrow from China.


*groan*

Fixed it...:rolleyes:

YardleyLabs
04-12-2010, 06:10 PM
*groan*

Fixed it...:rolleyes:
So, Obama is responsible for a recession that started long before he became President because it has not been "fixed" in the 13 months since his inauguration, despite economic improvements that began almost immediately following his inauguration and launch of the stimulus program and, when the dust has settled, will probably show that the recession technically ended within months of his inauguration. However, it bothers you to have a recession placed at Bush's feet when it began after six years of his Presidency and, once started, got worse every month that remained until he left office?

Unbelievable...:rolleyes: (To quote RK)

ducknwork
04-12-2010, 09:40 PM
What is unbelievable is how thickheaded you seem to be sometimes. Please point out where I said it was Obama's fault. Please point out where I said it wasn't at least partly Bush's fault. I don't care what you say, he is NOT, I repeat NOT solely responsible for the recession. He is also not the only one in a recession. Last time I checked, we were in this mess together. You know, as a country. That's why I said an AMERICAN recession. But people like you are more interested in fighting amongst one another and pointing fingers than pulling together and trying to become a better nation. TOGETHER.

To quote "Varsity Blues"...

'You're the dumbest smart kid I know.'

:rolleyes:

YardleyLabs
04-12-2010, 10:06 PM
What is unbelievable is how thickheaded you seem to be sometimes. Please point out where I said it was Obama's fault. Please point out where I said it wasn't at least partly Bush's fault. I don't care what you say, he is NOT, I repeat NOT solely responsible for the recession. He is also not the only one in a recession. Last time I checked, we were in this mess together. You know, as a country. That's why I said an AMERICAN recession. But people like you are more interested in fighting amongst one another and pointing fingers than pulling together and trying to become a better nation. TOGETHER.

To quote "Varsity Blues"...

'You're the dumbest smart kid I know.'

:rolleyes:
We've had the Carter recession, we've had the Reagan recession, we've had the Clinton recession (most of which happened while GWB was President, but definitely started under Clinton), and we've had the Bush recession. All of these have been American recessions, and all have had multiple causes. However, we look to our Presidents to take the lead on the economy and ultimately we hold them accountable for the results without much concern for fair play. This has been evident from day 1 (actually before day 1) as Republicans have tried to distance themselves from a horrible recession that had its primary roots in Republican leadership and Republican policies. Worse, they are still pushing the same old policies that got us here in the beginning and trying hard to blame Obama for the problems in the economy. I see no reason to begin renaming things now to let Bush off the hook. Of all the recessions I have mentioned, I do not believe any were more clearly attributable to the President for whom they are named. BTW, the Great Depression could be called the Hoover Depression, but I think Harding was primarily to blame and Hoover was simply the guy who was left holding the bag. Harding is generally the President that strikes me as being closest to GWB. It took more than a decade to recover from Harding.

ducknwork
04-12-2010, 10:19 PM
Once again, I wasn't attempting to say that he has no responsibility in the mess. The point of the comment was that we are in this together. It doesn't matter who started it. Well, at least it doesn't matter to some of us...

Gerry Clinchy
04-12-2010, 11:03 PM
we've had the Clinton recession (most of which happened while GWB was President, but definitely started under Clinton),

That statement caught my eye. That means Bush got to have two recessions :-) The one started by Clinton, and his own? Or is the recession O inherited really still part of Clinton's recession, disguised temporarily by the housing boom fed by giving loans to people who couldn't afford them? We sure had two blows to the economy during W's 8 years ... 9/11 and Katrina.


Republicans have tried to distance themselves from a horrible recession that had its primary roots in Republican leadership and Republican policies.

But you just said that W's recession really started under Clinton. And Congress was only R-controlled in the last two years of W's term. 8 years is not a long time for a recession to start, recover, and then dive again. More likely that any "apparent" recovery was just a temporary blip.

It just could be that if it weren't for the derivatives idiocy (based on bad mortgages), after 11 years the economy would have been coming out of the Clinton recession pretty well.

316,000 jobs sounds like a lot ... but I heard a figure quoted that to "grow" the economy something like 250,000 jobs have to be created every month. Since so many jobs have been lost, the addition of 316,000 jobs needs to be sustained for a long while just to get back to the starting point. Agreed, gaining some is better than losing more, but we know there has been controversy in how the added jobs have been estimated, so it's pretty hard to tell what the real picture is.

dnf777
04-13-2010, 06:06 AM
Once again, I wasn't attempting to say that he has no responsibility in the mess. The point of the comment was that we are in this together. It doesn't matter who started it. Well, at least it doesn't matter to some of us...

If it doesn't matter who started it, why is almost EVERY thread started hear implicating BHO for some travesty being levied against the American people?

Duck, I know its not fair to hang your fellow righties' words and deeds on you, so I won't . From my perspective, the reason it may appear we try to "hang" this on W, is not so much that per se, but it seems that lots of folks here are willing to put the republicans back in the driver's seat. That would be disasterous, and I really doubt the nation and the working men and women could survive another conservative financial blitz. So it's not so much to nail Bush to the wall, but rather make sure we don't repeat bad history. I'm not a fan of either party being in total control, but it seems that we need not fear that from the dems, as they can't get their act together. The republicans "rammed more things down our throats" (to quote UB) with a much narrower majority, and even minorities in congress, and we're still paying much of the tab, as will our kids and grandkids.

dnf777
04-13-2010, 06:13 AM
316,000 jobs sounds like a lot ... but I heard a figure quoted that to "grow" the economy something like 250,000 jobs have to be created every month. Since so many jobs have been lost, the addition of 316,000 jobs needs to be sustained for a long while just to get back to the starting point. Agreed, gaining some is better than losing more, but we know there has been controversy in how the added jobs have been estimated, so it's pretty hard to tell what the real picture is.

Gerry,
these are BLS numbers, that were not disputed until they shed favorable light on Obama. Now all the sudden they're suspect? They freely admitted 40k of these were census workers, so ok, make it ~280,000 jobs created. Still better than 800,000 lost. And that's still more than you 250,000 quoted for recovery, so I assume you're happy with these numbers.

road kill
04-13-2010, 07:23 AM
Wanna fix this "recession?"

Lower taxes
Lower fuel costs

Watch the economy POP!!!:shock:


rk

ducknwork
04-13-2010, 07:34 AM
If it doesn't matter who started it, why is almost EVERY thread started hear implicating BHO for some travesty being levied against the American people?


Cuz he is the one at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. If it was McCain, someone would be doing the same thing about him. If it was Ron Paul, we would hear daily how much he is ruining America. Hell, if it was Ronald McDonald, there would still be as many people bashing him!

dnf777
04-13-2010, 07:40 AM
Wanna fix this "recession?"

Lower taxes
Lower fuel costs

Watch the economy POP!!!:shock:


rk

We DID lower taxes, 2002, 2004, remember? Where's the "POP"?

The greatest expansion and growth of our economy began shorty after "Read my lips"....Taxes alone do not drive and economy. I think our taxes are just fine where they are...at the one of the lowest points in history relative to other countries and our OWN historical levels.

What I think has done the most damage is NAFTA, and every president since Bush I has their paws on that one! Really, you could say Nixon's opening trade potential with China was the birth of "free trade". All that has been good for international corporations, very bad for the American worker.

road kill
04-13-2010, 08:05 AM
We DID lower taxes, 2002, 2004, remember? Where's the "POP"?

The greatest expansion and growth of our economy began shorty after "Read my lips"....Taxes alone do not drive and economy. I think our taxes are just fine where they are...at the one of the lowest points in history relative to other countries and our OWN historical levels.

What I think has done the most damage is NAFTA, and every president since Bush I has their paws on that one! Really, you could say Nixon's opening trade potential with China was the birth of "free trade". All that has been good for international corporations, very bad for the American worker.

Pretty hard to pin NAFTA (a mistake to me) on 1 side.

"In the U.S., Bush, who had worked to "fast track" the signing prior to the end of his term, ran out of time and had to pass the required ratification and signing into law to incoming president Bill Clinton. Prior to sending it to the House of Representatives, Clinton introduced clauses to protect American workers and allay the concerns of many House members. It also required U.S. partners to adhere to environmental practices and regulations similar to its own. The ability to enforce these clauses, especially with Mexico, and with much consideration and emotional discussion the House of Representatives approved NAFTA on November 17, 1993, by a vote of 234 to 200. The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. NAFTA passed the Senate 61-38. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; it went into effect on January 1, 1994."



rk

road kill
04-13-2010, 08:08 AM
We DID lower taxes, 2002, 2004, remember? Where's the "POP"?

The greatest expansion and growth of our economy began shorty after "Read my lips"....Taxes alone do not drive and economy. I think our taxes are just fine where they are...at the one of the lowest points in history relative to other countries and our OWN historical levels.

What I think has done the most damage is NAFTA, and every president since Bush I has their paws on that one! Really, you could say Nixon's opening trade potential with China was the birth of "free trade". All that has been good for international corporations, very bad for the American worker.

My opinion......if gas prices keep rising, we will have a long summer.
Trucks, trains, plains, cars etc.

It will slow the "recovery."



Hope I'm not keepin' you up Dave.......;-)



rk

Buzz
04-13-2010, 10:03 AM
My opinion......if gas prices keep rising, we will have a long summer.
Trucks, trains, plains, cars etc.

It will slow the "recovery."



Hope I'm not keepin' you up Dave.......;-)



rk

I read an analysis from an economist the other day. He contends that each time oil costs reach or exceed 4% of total GDP, oil demand drops, and we fall into recession. The barrel price of oil at our current usage rate corresponds to $90/barrel.

So, it looks like double dip recession time...

dnf777
04-13-2010, 03:24 PM
Pretty hard to pin NAFTA (a mistake to me) on 1 side.


rk

That was my point exactly. Both sides have fingerprints on this disaster. And it is a disaster. Essentially, it eliminated diffusion barriers to standards of living. For Mexico and China, its great. For US, its going to hurt.

menmon
04-14-2010, 03:01 PM
I read an analysis from an economist the other day. He contends that each time oil costs reach or exceed 4% of total GDP, oil demand drops, and we fall into recession. The barrel price of oil at our current usage rate corresponds to $90/barrel.

So, it looks like double dip recession time...

Buzz I don't think so

badbullgator
04-14-2010, 03:16 PM
The way this game is played...the major oil companies let the spectulators (speculators) drive up prices so that they can hedge above the market. I don't have the balls to get in front of that bulldozer, knowing that the fed could raise rates at the wrong time and that dozer would run right over me. Spectulating (speculating, you would think he could spell it since he claims to have done it and is the second time in this post he got it wrong if you count his incorrect spelling of speculators) in that market is like picking up dimes in front of a bulldozer. It is very profitable as long as the dozer doesn't run over you. A few months ago, quite a few got run over when the dollar started rebounding.

The close corrilation (correlation) between oil and the dollar was because of the lack of demand for oil. In other words, when demand was not a factor of price, the only meaningful varable (variable) was the value of the dollar. Having said that, since oil trades on the world market, the purchasing power of the dollar to other currencies is very relative, but as you pointed out, it is not the only varible (variable second time in this post so not a typo).

It is nice to discuss this stuff with someone that can think for theirself (themselves).

Thanks



Really this guy is giving financial advice and worked at Merrill Lynch??? Really??? Pancakes need flipping.......

menmon
04-14-2010, 03:40 PM
Really this guy is giving financial advice and worked at Merrill Lynch??? Really??? Pancakes need flipping.......

Dude...I'm sorry about my spelling....I write this stuff in a hurry, because I'm busy and I don't have a spell checker.

This market is good so embrace it. Oil is not going to choke the economy, but if you thinkl so, buy Exxon

BonMallari
04-14-2010, 03:55 PM
Really this guy is giving financial advice and worked at Merrill Lynch??? Really??? Pancakes need flipping.......

the only guy that made money at Merrill Lynch was my ex broker :rolleyes: He was a lot like a bookmaker, didnt really care who won or lost, all he cared about was the commission (juice/vig) :p

Buzz
04-14-2010, 03:58 PM
No, I own some Exxon. It's done nothing, and the dividend is nothing to write home about.


There was a cartoon in a display case when I was in engineering school. It said:

Four yeers ago I culdn't spel injuneer, now I ar won.

Some of the smartest people I've ever worked with couldn't spell. They couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag either. But if you had a problem, you wanted them on your side.

huntinman
04-14-2010, 04:33 PM
No, I own some Exxon. It's done nothing, and the dividend is nothing to write home about.


There was a cartoon in a display case when I was in engineering school. It said:

Four yeers ago I culdn't spel injuneer, now I ar won.

Some of the smartest people I've ever worked with couldn't spell. They couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag either. But if you had a problem, you wanted them on your side.

Sounds like my ex wife and she's a Dr. Writes on about a fifth grade level...

dnf777
04-14-2010, 04:50 PM
Sounds like my ex wife and she's a Dr. Writes on about a fifth grade level...

I made an offer to my office staff three years ago.....if any patient correctly spells "hemorrhoids" on our intake questionnaire, I will buy the entire office lunch. Still no lunch. I decided about a year ago to extend the offer to the first time another doctor's office sending us a referral (be they doctors, nurses, or receptionists) correctly spells "hemorrhoids" on their referral sheet, I will also buy lunch. We're still hungry!

Buzz
04-14-2010, 04:56 PM
I made an offer to my office staff three years ago.....if any patient correctly spells "hemorrhoids" on our intake questionnaire, I will buy the entire office lunch. Still no lunch. I decided about a year ago to extend the offer to the first time another doctor's office sending us a referral (be they doctors, nurses, or receptionists) correctly spells "hemorrhoids" on their referral sheet, I will also buy lunch. We're still hungry!

If I was on your staff, I'd be helping the patients fill out their questionnaires...

huntinman
04-14-2010, 05:01 PM
I made an offer to my office staff three years ago.....if any patient correctly spells "hemorrhoids" on our intake questionnaire, I will buy the entire office lunch. Still no lunch. I decided about a year ago to extend the offer to the first time another doctor's office sending us a referral (be they doctors, nurses, or receptionists) correctly spells "hemorrhoids" on their referral sheet, I will also buy lunch. We're still hungry!

Hemorrhoids...P-a-i-n i-n t-h-e b-u-t-t

where are we eatin'?

menmon
04-14-2010, 05:16 PM
the only guy that made money at Merrill Lynch was my ex broker :rolleyes: He was a lot like a bookmaker, didnt really care who won or lost, all he cared about was the commission (juice/vig) :p

I would have to agree with this. I had my money with a retail broker at ML prior to working there and it always seemed like I got bad advice but he made his fees.

When I worked there I was part of the Institutional Client Group so on the buy side their customers were Putman, Fidelity, etc. and on the sell side it was AT&T, Vodaphone, etc., so you can imagine the care these clients got.

I have to give it to ML, they could execute. As for I'm concerned, back then there were 4 banks, ML, GS, Salomon and MS. These were the banks that could get it done and the marketplace knew it.

Back then, I also checked the spelling and grammer of my emails and any other thing I wrote. Misspelled words were not acceptable. I watched head roll for less. Perception was everything, so when it went out to a client, it had to be always right and timely, even if it meant working all weekend to have it on a clients desk Monday morning. The weeks were millions of dollars and you did not want to be the one responsible for them not getting the business.

One guy made a mistate and put that a company had $1MM in cash on their balance sheet when they had $5MM and it cost him his job because the managing director was embaraced with the client caught it during his meeting with them.

One guy lost his job because he checked his luggage that had the pitch books in it and the airlines lost his luggage.

dnf777
04-14-2010, 08:08 PM
Hemorrhoids...P-a-i-n i-n t-h-e b-u-t-t

where are we eatin'?

If you guys knew the choices we have in this town, you wouldn't be so excited!
If we ever cross paths at a test, I'll buy the first round....even?

Franco
04-15-2010, 05:59 PM
Gooberment Motors is still in the tank. They won't make a profit anytime soon. Looks like tax payers may have to bailout thier pension fund.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100415/us_time/08599198195800

dnf777
04-15-2010, 06:27 PM
Gooberment Motors is still in the tank. They won't make a profit anytime soon. Looks like tax payers may have to bailout thier pension fund.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100415/us_time/08599198195800

I'll tell ya, I'm sceered to death of whats going to happen in 15-30 years. With very few employers providing pensions nowadays, and even fewer young people saving adequately for retirement, I think we're going to face a HUGE destitute elderly population explosion here. Makes me want to put my retirement savings offshore, out of site, because when the gov't needs trillions to give to my cohorts who are out driving corvettes instead of saving for retirement, they'll come and take away the nice car I may eventually trade my truck in for someday.

With the way our population is aging, we'll have more retirees expecting a paycheck than people actually working. Legally, anyway.