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View Full Version : Bachman and Palin: WhooHooo!



dnf777
04-07-2010, 03:39 PM
Looks like it may be shaping up for an epic 2012!!
Just heard Bachman and Palin together at a rally, calling for the voters to be "armed and dangerous"!

Leddyman
04-07-2010, 03:46 PM
Great! I've already got that covered.

2nd amendment regards,

Franco
04-07-2010, 03:47 PM
So, every 28 days we are going to get an earful from them? ;-)

Buzz
04-07-2010, 04:00 PM
So, every 28 days we are going to get an earful from them? ;-)

Does that mean what I think it does? Where is the lmfao sticky?

Franco
04-07-2010, 04:15 PM
Does that mean what I think it does? Where is the lmfao sticky?



Yup!

Same reason one should never put two women together to judge a Field Trial.:rolleyes:

Buzz
04-07-2010, 04:25 PM
Read the caption under the picture.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4500990088_f0c8ee59c5.jpg

Nice home made signs for the folks to wave.;-)

BonMallari
04-07-2010, 04:53 PM
Read the caption under the picture.

Nice home made signs for the folks to wave.;-)

years ago the late Chet Forte was a sports talk radio host in San Diego with a very young guy named Jim Rome. Chet was the original director for Monday Night Football. He admitted that all those witty signs that camera panned to were made up by ABC, he also said they had a staff member go and search out great looking gals and give them tickets in designated seats so the cameraman could "find them" during the game....if you dont think politics are show business then watch the news on any station

road kill
04-07-2010, 05:14 PM
Read the caption under the picture.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4500990088_f0c8ee59c5.jpg

Nice home made signs for the folks to wave.;-)
Almost as good as blanket texts & tweets!!

They are killin you guys.
The jealously is fun to watch.

Change is on the way!!!!!!:D:D:D:D


rk

dnf777
04-07-2010, 07:45 PM
Almost as good as blanket texts & tweets!!

They are killin you guys.
The jealously is fun to watch.

Change is on the way!!!!!!:D:D:D:D


rk

I believe that balance is a good thing in politics. I do not want to see those two run on the republican ticket, as that will surely result in the total demise of the GOP, leaving the dems to run amok for 4 more years. Why can't the republicans put forth a reasonable candidate?

road kill
04-07-2010, 08:20 PM
I believe that balance is a good thing in politics. I do not want to see those two run on the republican ticket, as that will surely result in the total demise of the GOP, leaving the dems to run amok for 4 more years. Why can't the republicans put forth a reasonable candidate?


I missed it, when did they announce??


rk

BonMallari
04-07-2010, 09:39 PM
I believe that balance is a good thing in politics. I do not want to see those two run on the republican ticket, as that will surely result in the total demise of the GOP, leaving the dems to run amok for 4 more years. Why can't the republicans put forth a reasonable candidate?

Who wants to see someone campaign for the next three years...Bachmann and Palin are attention divas are are basking in their 15 minutes of fame. they are/will be so overexposed that the public will grow tired of them. I already am..

its the same thing that has happened to BHO, he started campaigning a good year and a half before the election and hasnt stopped being in campaign mode, and the American public has heard the same old speech time after time...the "we inherited this recession, we won the election, you need healthcare...yada, yada, yada..." everyone is tired of it

I think a candidate will emerge after the mid term election ...and it may not come from the usual list of names commonly thrown out by the media types

Snicklefritz
04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
I think a candidate will emerge after the mid term election ...and it may not come from the usual list of names commonly thrown out by the media types


Messianic Hope abounds...

JDogger
04-07-2010, 11:40 PM
Messianic Hope abounds...

Chuckle! Chuckle!

Leddyman
04-08-2010, 08:09 AM
I believe that balance is a good thing in politics. I do not want to see those two run on the republican ticket, as that will surely result in the total demise of the GOP, leaving the dems to run amok for 4 more years. Why can't the republicans put forth a reasonable candidate?

Dude! If the Repubs run a candidate that YOU think is reasonable, I think they/we are doomed.

McCain regards,

dnf777
04-08-2010, 08:38 AM
Dude! If the Repubs run a candidate that YOU think is reasonable, I think they/we are doomed.

McCain regards,

I'll take that as a compliment, thanks. ;)

Compared to Bachman/Palin, I would consider any republican president of the past 50 years 'reasonable', even W!!! One is a total ditz with a gun, the other's lunatic eyes make Pelosi look calm and reasoned.

I won't waste bandwidth posting frightening pictures, you've already seen them!

road kill
04-08-2010, 08:41 AM
I'll take that as a compliment, thanks. ;)

Compared to Bachman/Palin, I would consider any republican president of the past 50 years 'reasonable', even W!!! One is a total ditz with a gun, the other's lunatic eyes make Pelosi look calm and reasoned.

I won't waste bandwidth posting frightening pictures, you've already seen them!

That's a terrific opinion of their appearnce, but describe the policies they hold that you disagree with.............
:rolleyes:





rk

dnf777
04-08-2010, 08:49 AM
That's a terrific opinion of their appearnce, but describe the policies they hold that you disagree with.............
:rolleyes:





rk

Abstinence only sex ed. Don't have to look far to see how well it doesn't work. Banning abortions even if the mother's life is a stake, or in cases of rape and assault. Those are just starters. For more, just listen any time they open their pie-holes.

road kill
04-08-2010, 08:57 AM
Abstinence only sex ed. Don't have to look far to see how well it doesn't work. Banning abortions even if the mother's life is a stake, or in cases of rape and assault. Those are just starters. For more, just listen any time they open their pie-holes.

No, I know what I think about their policies, I want to know how YOU differ with them.
Not personal opinion on their looks.


rk

brandywinelabs
04-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Bachman and Cheneys daughter. Better than Palin...

ducknwork
04-08-2010, 12:19 PM
McCains daughter is even better...

Golddogs
04-08-2010, 01:04 PM
Bachmann is a head case and needs to go. There are better Republicans to hold her seat .

Henry V
04-08-2010, 01:17 PM
Could someone please list the public policy accomplishments of these two politicians and the effects on the federal budget.

road kill
04-08-2010, 01:39 PM
Could someone please list the public policy accomplishments of these two politicians and the effects on the federal budget.
Why don't you?

It's amazing, all the hate and you don't even know what they stand for.:D




rk

Henry V
04-08-2010, 02:01 PM
Thanks for the suggestion RK I found these interesting hate free articles. I just thought the anti-haters (either with us or against us in this black and white world) would be able to come up with some ideas.:)

http://www.thebachmannrecord.com/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122048513733097089.html

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

http://www.grist.org/article/palin-around/

road kill
04-08-2010, 02:06 PM
Thanks for the suggestion RK I found these interesting hate free articles. I just thought the anti-haters (either with us or against us in this black and white world) would be able to come up with some ideas.:)

http://www.thebachmannrecord.com/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122048513733097089.html

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

http://www.grist.org/article/palin-around/


Just on point 1 on the first link, wanna compare her church to Obama's and Rev Wright??
(I know, I know....that's differnt!!)

It is just amazing.:rolleyes:




rk

Buzz
04-09-2010, 02:00 PM
Whoo Hooo! Palin, live on the TV machine once again!!!!!


Let's drill baby drill, not stall baby stall!:rolleyes:

menmon
04-19-2010, 04:34 PM
Just on point 1 on the first link, wanna compare her church to Obama's and Rev Wright??
(I know, I know....that's differnt!!)

It is just amazing.:rolleyes:




rk

You found her appeal...the Christian Right are here followers. It takes more than that to get elected.

You guys are going to have to do better than her or Obama for 4 more years.

Liberal or Bimbo = Liberal

Uncle Bill
04-19-2010, 05:48 PM
[quote=sambo;601585]You found her appeal...the Christian Right are here followers. It takes more than that to get elected.

You guys are going to have to do better than her or Obama for 4 more years.

Liberal or Bimbo = Liberal


And you hayseeds call me hateful....do you, OR dnf, OR yardley, OR all the other so called phoney "we wanna get along" types think you can get away with calling someone like Sarah Palin, that you have ZERO knowledge of, a "BIMBO" not have repercussions?

If you think that calling her a bimbo has less racism attached than me calling you liberals phoney jackasses, you couldn't be more ignorant.

Thanks to the likes of you, that have no clue what ails this nation, the TEA partys are increasing. It's not about taxes. It's about liberty and freedom people like you have brought about. We don't give a hoot about your beloved Obama, he's the least of our worries. Here's what makes us furious:

"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the presidency.

It will be easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to an electorate willing to have such a man for their president.

The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails us.

Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.

The republic can survive a Barack Obama. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their President."


Author Unknown


So now you know what concerns me...it's fools like you!

You can continue your name calling and conservative bashing, while your hope and change leadership under the tutelage of known socialists, like Soros...and communists like Castro and the other Obama sycophants that he is so reverant of...but the time will come when you'll realize what you are passing on to your children.

UB

BonMallari
04-19-2010, 09:16 PM
Bachmann must have the same publicist and agent as Palin, because she is showing up on every political talk show and chiming in on every national policy....she too will be overexposed and the country will grow very tired of her and Sarah...I think they are both mesmerized by their own celebrity status and crave the media spotlight

huntinman
04-19-2010, 09:44 PM
I thought all you libs were for womens rights. Now a couple of women come along who worked their way up from nowhere and all you can do is badmouth them like a bunch of goons standing around in a gym talking about some cheerleader who would have nothing to do with you. Maybe you had a bad childhood... problems with your moms? Come on! You have Pelosi, Boxer, Murray from Seattle and you are calling these two names? Get real.

dnf777
04-19-2010, 10:03 PM
They ARE basically cheerleaders who would have nothing to do with ANY of us!

Marvin S
04-19-2010, 10:53 PM
I thought all you libs were for womens rights. Now a couple of women come along who worked their way up from nowhere and all you can do is badmouth them like a bunch of goons standing around in a gym talking about some cheerleader who would have nothing to do with you. Maybe you had a bad childhood... problems with your moms? Come on! You have Pelosi, Boxer, Murray from Seattle and you are calling these two names? Get real.

& Couric, O'Donnell, a whole lot of these D female Gov's in all their incompetence.

menmon
04-20-2010, 12:10 PM
I just want to make sure they can count and know their ABCs.

We know she know how to shop, but last I checked, shopping is not a prerequisit for president.

ducknwork
04-20-2010, 12:12 PM
On that [ignorant] note, I guess we should have made sure that O could talk sans teleprompter. It's clear that he is good at reading though. Not so good at giving gifts to our friends though.

And I guess as of Nov. 2009, using coke is a prerequisite to be the prez.

road kill
04-20-2010, 12:16 PM
They ARE basically cheerleaders who would have nothing to do with ANY of us!


Speak for yourself!
I knew many cheerleaders very well!:D





rk

Buzz
04-20-2010, 12:27 PM
Speak for yourself!
I knew many cheerleaders very well!:D





rk

I dated 3 in high school. And I'm noth'in special... :rolleyes:

I chased one in college, and she wouldn't have anything to do with me. Her roommate was another story altogether!

huntinman
04-20-2010, 12:51 PM
I just want to make sure they can count and know their ABCs.

We know she know how to shop, but last I checked, shopping is not a prerequisit for president.

Do they have to know that we have 57 states in the US? Or how to bow?... How about completing a sentence without the ever present telepromter? Curious George is not the brightest bulb in the box.

dnf777
04-20-2010, 02:15 PM
Speak for yourself!
I knew many cheerleaders very well!:D

rk

and you pick wicked good cigars! :cool:

menmon
04-20-2010, 03:41 PM
On that [ignorant] note, I guess we should have made sure that O could talk sans teleprompter. It's clear that he is good at reading though. Not so good at giving gifts to our friends though.

And I guess as of Nov. 2009, using coke is a prerequisite to be the prez.

You are way too caught up in this woman....you would think I was making fun of your wife the way you are getting in arms about this.

I read your post, albeit I don't agree that often, you are much to smart to place your support behind the Eskimo Bimbo.

menmon
04-20-2010, 03:52 PM
And I guess as of Nov. 2009, using coke is a prerequisite to be the prez.[/QUOTE]

You have your letters mixed up....that was W and November 2000

ducknwork
04-20-2010, 09:26 PM
Who said I support her? I like what she stands for (for the most part) but I don't think that she has much of a future in national politics and I hope she isn't on the ticket in 2012. Not because of her, but I think that her name has just been drug through the mud so much that it will scare too many people away.

road kill
04-20-2010, 09:29 PM
You are way too caught up in this woman....you would think I was making fun of your wife the way you are getting in arms about this.

I read your post, albeit I don't agree that often, you are much to smart to place your support behind the Eskimo Bimbo.

Classy!

She is someones wife, and should be treated accordingly.
Would you like your wife treated the way she is??


rk

ducknwork
04-20-2010, 09:30 PM
Good point RK. It would be nice to see respect for all, from all.

I'm not gonna hold my breath.

depittydawg
04-21-2010, 12:31 AM
Well... Sarah is very cute. And she can see Russia over the Bering Straight.

dnf777
04-21-2010, 08:50 AM
Classy!

She is someones wife, and should be treated accordingly.
Would you like your wife treated the way she is??


rk

Are you talking about the name calling, or being taken to NYC to shop at the world's most exclusive clothiers and accessory shops, on someone elses' credit card? (anyone's but MINE!) :D Have to think about that one!

Buzz
04-21-2010, 09:32 AM
Classy!

She is someones wife, and should be treated accordingly.
Would you like your wife treated the way she is??


rk

Most wives have not decided to become a public figure. Most wives don't run around the country collecting $100,000 a pop for speaking fees to imply that our president hates America and is a traitor, a socialist, a marxist, and a fascist. I imagine the $12 million she has made since leaving the gov's office in Alaska will ease the pain of anything that Palin's detractors can throw her way.

M&K's Retrievers
04-21-2010, 09:47 AM
Most wives have not decided to become a public figure. Most wives don't run around the country collecting $100,000 a pop for speaking fees to imply that our president hates America and is a traitor, a socialist, a marxist, and a fascist. I imagine the $12 million she has made since leaving the gov's office in Alaska will ease the pain of anything that Palin's detractors can throw her way.

Your fearless leader hasn't done too badly at $5.5M in 2009 as well as Michele's $300K+ at a Chicago hospital for a part time job while obama was Senator. A position that was no need to fill after her departure. I fear 90% of these elected officials are sleazy crooks. If not at time of election then surely after they have tasted the power and benefits.

menmon
04-21-2010, 10:01 AM
Classy!

She is someones wife, and should be treated accordingly.
Would you like your wife treated the way she is??


rk

My wife isn't running for vice president or president. This is a country of choice and she made the choice to put herself in direct oposition with the majority of americans. She is clearly capable of dishing it out, so she better be able to accept what comes back at her.

huntinman
04-21-2010, 10:28 AM
My wife isn't running for vice president or president. This is a country of choice and she made the choice to put herself in direct oposition with the majority of americans. She is clearly capable of dishing it out, so she better be able to accept what comes back at her.

I think she can handle anything you are capable of dishing out. (And laugh all the way to the bank while doing it) What is laughable is how ignorant you guys sound when attacking her. You must be more afraid of her than you are willing to admit. If she was no threat to you libs, you wouldn't bother with the attacks.

dnf777
04-21-2010, 11:29 AM
I think she can handle anything you are capable of dishing out. (And laugh all the way to the bank while doing it) What is laughable is how ignorant you guys sound when attacking her. You must be more afraid of her than you are willing to admit. If she was no threat to you libs, you wouldn't bother with the attacks.

I think every democrat is DREAMING that she will get the repubican nomination. YOU guys ought to be afraid of her!

ducknwork
04-21-2010, 11:41 AM
My wife isn't running for vice president or president. This is a country of choice and she made the choice to put herself in direct oposition with the majority of americans. She is clearly capable of dishing it out, so she better be able to accept what comes back at her.

I don't necessarily think that you are correct when you say the 'majority' of Americans. I think you may be a little closer to right if you say the 'majority of americans that speak up'. (like the liberal MSM)

Buzz
04-21-2010, 12:23 PM
I don't necessarily think that you are correct when you say the 'majority' of Americans. I think you may be a little closer to right if you say the 'majority of americans that speak up'. (like the liberal MSM)


If they don't speak up, and don't vote, then their opinions don't count.;-)

depittydawg
04-21-2010, 12:25 PM
You must be referring to our former coke head alcoholic President, Junior Bush.

BonMallari
04-21-2010, 12:28 PM
this back and forth banter ranks right up there with the classic urinating contests

Tastes great vs Less Filling

or

Oh yeah vs yeah

road kill
04-21-2010, 12:32 PM
My wife isn't running for vice president or president. This is a country of choice and she made the choice to put herself in direct oposition with the majority of americans. She is clearly capable of dishing it out, so she better be able to accept what comes back at her.

I am sure your Mother & Father would be proud of your prowess at name calling!!;-)




rk

JDogger
04-21-2010, 12:41 PM
I don't necessarily think that you are correct when you say the 'majority' of Americans. I think you may be a little closer to right if you say the 'majority of americans that speak up'. (like the liberal MSM)

Lets see. Obama was elected by a majority, as were the majorities in both houses and pretty soon a change in the SC will take place. Sooner or later the pendulum will swing the other way, but not yet.



Dixies First Flight Mayhem in the AM NDG DR BYS TL FG FD

I assume this is a dogs name. Wanna decipher the alphabet soup?

Regards, JD

Uncle Bill
04-21-2010, 01:02 PM
I think every democrat is DREAMING that she will get the repubican nomination. YOU guys ought to be afraid of her!


How could anyone possibly get from that MOR statement, you are certainly an INDEPENDANT. What a phoney.

No doubt we are afraid of her...all tens of thousands that are involved in TEA parties are afraid...the thousands that attend her appearances, except when the radical left shows their stripes by calling her names and worse.

And your side is slinging the 'sedition' term at the conservative movement. What hypocrites. Don't any of you look in the mirror? Try it. You'll have a good laugh at what a joke you all have become.

UB

dnf777
04-21-2010, 01:19 PM
How could anyone possibly get from that MOR statement, you are certainly an INDEPENDANT. What a phoney.

No doubt we are afraid of her...all tens of thousands that are involved in TEA parties are afraid...the thousands that attend her appearances, except when the radical left shows their stripes by calling her names and worse.

And your side is slinging the 'sedition' term at the conservative movement. What hypocrites. Don't any of you look in the mirror? Try it. You'll have a good laugh at what a joke you all have become.

UB

Sedition?? Whaaaat?

Go ahead and put dear Mrs. Palin on your ticket.

As for being afraid, after what happened to our country after 8 years of republican policy, you're darn right I'm afraid. To be fair, (you ought to try it sometime) I am also afraid of what the current spending projections are doing to our country. So far, Obama has been a continuation of Bush's disasterous policies of expanding gov't, increasing spending, and warring when we can't afford it!

Best question I've heard out of Washington: "if both parties are so against the deficit, why do we still have one?"

Eastern Shoreman
04-21-2010, 02:07 PM
Both parties will promise you the moon and spend away your future. The dems are over the top and have no regard for fiscal responsibility. The GOP says they will cut spending, but they'll cut taxes and continue to build an unsustainable empire abroad. They are all back room pals and most of just can't see that. They are really not that differenct at the end of the day. They both grow government, its just a matter of what sector they decide to bloat during their term. If the GOP actually cared about the country and not their establishment, they'd get behind RON PAUL. He is possibly the only true conservative out there, not a Neo Conservative. He wins the straw polls, has the support of true conservatives, independents and libertarians. But he'd institue sound money, end the FED Reserve, slash government jobs and return to real free markets and neither party in power actually wants that, even though the GOP will tell you they do.

RON PAUL FOR THE LONG HAUL!!!!

huntinman
04-21-2010, 02:15 PM
While I don't disagree with much of what you are saying, Ron Paul is not telegenic enought to get elected in todays USA. Also his weird voice turns people away. Hard to look at and listen to, not a good combo.

Eastern Shoreman
04-21-2010, 02:20 PM
If our nation's attention span is that pathetic then we are doomed. Most people have see limited clips of him, he is actually quite inspiring. But most Americans watch snipets of news that has already spun things for them and that's that. As Ron Paul would say, it's the message not the man. Instead we'll get some fake like Romney or Huckabee...oh I can't wait. Clinton played the sax, Huckabee plays the bass, that's about the only difference!

dnf777
04-21-2010, 02:45 PM
Both parties will promise you the moon and spend away your future. The dems are over the top and have no regard for fiscal responsibility. The GOP says they will cut spending, but they'll cut taxes and continue to build an unsustainable empire abroad. They are all back room pals and most of just can't see that. They are really not that differenct at the end of the day. They both grow government, its just a matter of what sector they decide to bloat during their term. If the GOP actually cared about the country and not their establishment, they'd get behind RON PAUL. He is possibly the only true conservative out there, not a Neo Conservative. He wins the straw polls, has the support of true conservatives, independents and libertarians. But he'd institue sound money, end the FED Reserve, slash government jobs and return to real free markets and neither party in power actually wants that, even though the GOP will tell you they do.

RON PAUL FOR THE LONG HAUL!!!!

I'm with ya brother! Only thing about Ron Paul was his claims he would abolish the IRS. As nice as that sounds, it is simply not feasible. Nor is abolishing the Fed. Drastic reform: YES. Cold turkey slashes: not feasible.

I'm waiting to hear responses to your claim that he is the only true conservative! :D

ducknwork
04-21-2010, 02:55 PM
this back and forth banter ranks right up there with the classic urinating contests

Tastes great vs Less Filling

or

Oh yeah vs yeah

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr104/sedwards_08/misc/caption-pissing-contest.jpg

road kill
04-21-2010, 03:01 PM
While I don't disagree with much of what you are saying, Ron Paul is not telegenic enought to get elected in todays USA. Also his weird voice turns people away. Hard to look at and listen to, not a good combo.

Are you saying he is not "clean and articulate" enough??:D



rk

ducknwork
04-21-2010, 03:04 PM
Lets see. Obama was elected by a majority, as were the majorities in both houses and pretty soon a change in the SC will take place. Sooner or later the pendulum will swing the other way, but not yet.

I was saying this in response to sambo's statement of Palin placing herself and her beliefs against the majority of Americans. I took that statement as a reference to her social conservative stance and I truly think that more people in America are socially conservative, they just don't speak as loud (or get as much attention) as those who are very socially liberal.


Dixies First Flight Mayhem in the AM NDG DR BYS TL FG FD

I assume this is a dogs name. Wanna decipher the alphabet soup?

Regards, JD


Yes, it is my dog's name.

No Dog Games Duck Retrievin' Back Yard Stankin' Toddler Lickin' Food Gobblin' Family Dog.

Impressive, huh?:D;)

menmon
04-21-2010, 04:11 PM
My experience is that the conservative right are the more vocal ones. I get 50 emails a day telling me why Obama has screwed everything up. He hasn't had a chance to do half of what he is accused of. It would be nice to get an email from someone with a more balanced opinion, anyway I have not recieved one yet.

In fact I have a friend that was sending me that bull and I wrote him something back and he doesn't talk to me anymore because of it.

It's a shame that cable news has gotten people where they can't disagree on politics.

Uncle Bill
04-21-2010, 05:04 PM
To quote the IHOP Oracle: "In fact I have a friend that was sending me that bull and I wrote him something back and he doesn't talk to me anymore because of it."

Dayum...you actually knew someone with some common sense?

We need more like him. The quicker you realize what Obama and his thugs are perpetrating on this nation, the quicker you will understand why so many of us Americans aren't taking any more of this crap. Some of us just don't need very much time to figure out when we are being shafted, and when enough is enough.

But that's more than likely wishful thinking. When you go through life wearing blinders like so many of your socialist friends, you think what's happening is just what you are looking for. Frankly, I wish we could wait so you could see first hand what is truely happening, because that's what I'm afraid it will take for you to recognize OMG...they are goring MY OX NOW.

UB

ducknwork
04-21-2010, 05:10 PM
My experience is that the conservative right are the more vocal ones. I get 50 emails a day telling me why Obama has screwed everything up. He hasn't had a chance to do half of what he is accused of. It would be nice to get an email from someone with a more balanced opinion, anyway I have not recieved one yet.

In fact I have a friend that was sending me that bull and I wrote him something back and he doesn't talk to me anymore because of it.

It's a shame that cable news has gotten people where they can't disagree on politics.

I hear about a lot more anti war protests, GLBT pride marches, pro choice demonstrations, various black "equality" groups, anti Christian rhetoric, anti family values, anti hunting, gun, fishing, etc movements than I hear of the opposite.

Henry V
04-21-2010, 05:21 PM
I hear about a lot more anti war protests, GLBT pride marches, pro choice demonstrations, various black "equality" groups, anti Christian rhetoric, anti family values, anti hunting, gun, fishing, etc movements than I hear of the opposite.

Perhaps a medication change is in order? ;)
or perhaps your primary sources of information hype these events to give you that impression?

dnf777
04-21-2010, 10:50 PM
To quote the IHOP Oracle: "In fact I have a friend that was sending me that bull and I wrote him something back and he doesn't talk to me anymore because of it."

Dayum...you actually knew someone with some common sense?

We need more like him. The quicker you realize what Obama and his thugs are perpetrating on this nation, the quicker you will understand why so many of us Americans aren't taking any more of this crap. Some of us just don't need very much time to figure out when we are being shafted, and when enough is enough.

But that's more than likely wishful thinking. When you go through life wearing blinders like so many of your socialist friends, you think what's happening is just what you are looking for. Frankly, I wish we could wait so you could see first hand what is truely happening, because that's what I'm afraid it will take for you to recognize OMG...they are goring MY OX NOW.

UB

Please read RK's thread on adopting a more civil tone, and join the club. You obviously have an extreme far right perspective on issues, which I enjoy hearing. But please keep in mind, those in your camp are not the only Americans in this land. Others from moderates to even the far left are American too, and deserve the same respect that you do. We can all learn from one another, especially when we realize that we all care about this country, and want to see it remain the best nation in the world.

Hew
04-22-2010, 09:05 AM
If our nation's attention span is that pathetic then we are doomed. Most people have see limited clips of him, he is actually quite inspiring. But most Americans watch snipets of news that has already spun things for them and that's that. As Ron Paul would say, it's the message not the man.
It's probably a good thing for Ron Paul that most peoples' knowledge of him and his positions is limited to snipets of spun news. ;-)

Ron Paul is the Walrus...as in coo-coo-cachoo, coo-coo-cachoo.

menmon
04-22-2010, 09:30 AM
The problem with the Christian right is that they believe so strongly that they are correct and if you are a Christian and a democrat, you are not saved.

I'm a Christian and a Mason and many Christians think that Masonary is bad, when to begin with most know nothing about it. But one of our primary principals is tolorance. Masons such as George Washington believed strongly in God but believed a man relationship with God was between him and God. It is this principal that has made us great and allowed people from all over the world to come to this country with their many different beliefs and religions and be allowed to pray and worship their God as they choice. Another Masonic principal is equality of men, meaning men should be judged on their charactor and what they do for their fellowman not how much money they have or what title they hold. Another Masonic principal is charity, meaning we should help our brothers in distress.

19 Mason help write the constitution and Masonic principals are woven all through it.

So point to all this is that you as a Christian are no better than men of different faith in the eyes of God, and it is not your place to judge that man that does not believe the way you do.

huntinman
04-22-2010, 09:36 AM
The problem with the Christian right is that they believe so strongly that they are correct and if you are a Christian and a democrat, you are not saved.

I'm a Christian and a Mason and many Christians think that Masonary is bad, when to begin with most know nothing about it. But one of our primary principals is tolorance. Masons such as George Washington believed strongly in God but believed a man relationship with God was between him and God. It is this principal that has made us great and allowed people from all over the world to come to this country with their many different beliefs and religions and be allowed to pray and worship their God as they choice. Another Masonic principal is equality of men, meaning men should be judged on their charactor and what they do for their fellowman not how much money they have or what title they hold. Another Masonic principal is charity, meaning we should help our brothers in distress.

19 Mason help write the constitution and Masonic principals are woven all through it.

So point to all this is that you as a Christian are no better than men of different faith in the eyes of God, and it is not your place to judge that man that does not believe the way you do.

I guess your masonic beliefs don't apply to women you don't agree with, eh?

menmon
04-22-2010, 09:37 AM
I guess your masonic beliefs don't apply to women you don't agree with, eh?

I tolerate her, but don't care for her moral compass!

road kill
04-22-2010, 09:39 AM
I guess your masonic beliefs don't apply to women you don't agree with, eh?
You beat me to it.

My Great Grandfather, my Grandfather, my Father and most of their brithers were all Masons and Scottish Rite members.

1 thing they all taught me....respect people for their "travels!"






rk

road kill
04-22-2010, 09:40 AM
I tolerate her, but don't care for her moral compass!
That makes her a "bimbo???"



rk

BonMallari
04-22-2010, 10:01 AM
The problem with the Christian right is that they believe so strongly that they are correct and if you are a Christian and a democrat, you are not saved.

I'm a Christian and a Mason and many Christians think that Masonary is bad, when to begin with most know nothing about it. But one of our primary principals is tolorance. Masons such as George Washington believed strongly in God but believed a man relationship with God was between him and God. It is this principal that has made us great and allowed people from all over the world to come to this country with their many different beliefs and religions and be allowed to pray and worship their God as they choice. Another Masonic principal is equality of men, meaning men should be judged on their charactor and what they do for their fellowman not how much money they have or what title they hold. Another Masonic principal is charity, meaning we should help our brothers in distress.

19 Mason help write the constitution and Masonic principals are woven all through it.

So point to all this is that you as a Christian are no better than men of different faith in the eyes of God, and it is not your place to judge that man that does not believe the way you do.


I tolerate her, but don't care for her moral compass!

which way is it...you may not care for her moral compass, but you have in fact passed judgement on her...based on what ? her personal life, the fact that she chose not to abort her child...the fact that she and her family have not hidden the fact that her daughter had a child out of wedlock, but the father of that child has exploited that situation at every chance he gets....

menmon
04-22-2010, 10:13 AM
That makes her a "bimbo???"



rk

No...I just like throwing back some of the same bull.

I'm a 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason and a Shriner. I'm most active in the Shrine. My Shrine Unit host an Annual Bay Fishing Tournament and a Clay Shoot every year that we have grown into significant charity events for the hospitals.

You would like Masonary.

menmon
04-22-2010, 10:18 AM
which way is it...you may not care for her moral compass, but you have in fact passed judgement on her...based on what ? her personal life, the fact that she chose not to abort her child...the fact that she and her family have not hidden the fact that her daughter had a child out of wedlock, but the father of that child has exploited that situation at every chance he gets....

I just don't like it when people use others for their own gain. I'm not judging her just stating what I have observed.

The Eskimo Bimbo is just cute, I think, but obviously you don't agree, but that's fine. We can agree to disagree.

dnf777
04-22-2010, 10:29 AM
From Wiki: Bimbo is a term that emerged in popular English language usage in the early 20th century to describe a physically attractive but unintelligent woman. Use of this term began in the United States as early as 1919, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, which cites the American Magazine issue of November that year.

Most would agree that she is physically attractive. Statements such as Putin flying overhead, seeing Russia from her house, and not being able to name one paper, magazine or journal she has read certainly casts sufficient doubts as to her intellect, as to make applying the term "bimbo" accurate and appropriate, albiet unflattering, and perhaps not nice.

road kill
04-22-2010, 10:30 AM
From Wiki: Bimbo is a term that emerged in popular English language usage in the early 20th century to describe a physically attractive but unintelligent woman. Use of this term began in the United States as early as 1919, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, which cites the American Magazine issue of November that year.

Most would agree that she is physically attractive. Statements such as Putin flying overhead, seeing Russia from her house, and not being able to name one paper, magazine or journal she has read certainly casts sufficient doubts as to her intellect, as to make applying the term "bimbo" accurate and appropriate, albiet unflattering, and perhaps not nice.


Rationalization: the second strongest human drive.




rk

menmon
04-22-2010, 11:12 AM
From Wiki: Bimbo is a term that emerged in popular English language usage in the early 20th century to describe a physically attractive but unintelligent woman. Use of this term began in the United States as early as 1919, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, which cites the American Magazine issue of November that year.

Most would agree that she is physically attractive. Statements such as Putin flying overhead, seeing Russia from her house, and not being able to name one paper, magazine or journal she has read certainly casts sufficient doubts as to her intellect, as to make applying the term "bimbo" accurate and appropriate, albiet unflattering, and perhaps not nice.

Accually, I think she looks like a Specklebelly Goose. I have one mounted in office and everytime I look at her it reminds me of that goose.

Not judging...just observing.

Hew
04-22-2010, 11:28 AM
Most would agree that she is physically attractive. Statements such as Putin flying overhead, seeing Russia from her house, and not being able to name one paper, magazine or journal she has read certainly casts sufficient doubts as to her intellect, as to make applying the term "bimbo" accurate and appropriate, albiet unflattering, and perhaps not nice.
Regurgitated fiction. She never said she could see Russia from her house. And 99% of the moonbats who snicker about the Putin comment know neither exactly what she said nor the context in which she said it.

And if spouting inaccuracies justifies her being called a bimbo, does that make you a mimbo? ;-)

Buzz
04-22-2010, 11:31 AM
Regurgitated fiction. She never said she could see Russia from her house. And 99% of the moonbats who snicker about the Putin comment know neither exactly what she said nor the context in which she said it.

And if spouting inaccuracies justifies her being called a bimbo, does that make you a mimbo? ;-)


More people are familiar with the Saturday Night Live version of it than the actual one. She did state that you could see Russia from Alaska, but not from her house.

BonMallari
04-22-2010, 11:43 AM
Sarah Palin does a good Tina Fey impersonation but Tina Fey is way hotter

ducknwork
04-22-2010, 11:43 AM
The problem with the Christian right is that they believe so strongly that they are correct and if you are a Christian and a democrat, you are not saved.



And the anti Christian left doesn't strongly believe that they are correct? And they don't believe that most Christians are hypocrites and want to 'shove their beliefs down others throats' while at the same time 'shoving the left's beliefs down others throats'?

Here's a news flash: Everyone believes that what they believe is correct. So why is this only a problem with the Christian right? Just because you disagree?

menmon
04-22-2010, 11:52 AM
And the anti Christian left doesn't strongly believe that they are correct? And they don't believe that most Christians are hypocrites and want to 'shove their beliefs down others throats' while at the same time 'shoving the left's beliefs down others throats'?

Here's a news flash: Everyone believes that what they believe is correct. So why is this only a problem with the Christian right? Just because you disagree?

The problem is the church should not be in politics at any level. And as long as they do, they will be a target of criticism. Me personally would prefer the church to serve its purpose of bringing people closer to God and stay out of politics. I don't need them telling me how to think, nor do we need the church as a target of criticism from either side. Best way to avoid getting stinch on you is to stay away from things that smell.

ducknwork
04-22-2010, 11:55 AM
Sooooo, it is right for you and your side to tell churches to stay out of and away from politics completely? Isn't that an attempt at removing the freedom of speech from the Christian right?

dnf777
04-22-2010, 12:03 PM
Regurgitated fiction. She never said she could see Russia from her house. And 99% of the moonbats who snicker about the Putin comment know neither exactly what she said nor the context in which she said it.

And if spouting inaccuracies justifies her being called a bimbo, does that make you a mimbo? ;-)

You're right. It was from Alaska, not her house. But still, does that qualify her in foreign affairs? That was the context in which those comments were made! Please feel free to correct my misquotations with the intelligent actual ones, and we'll see if my point still stands!? Please do not revoke her MENSA card, based on my inaccurate descriptions! :rolleyes:

menmon
04-22-2010, 12:10 PM
Sooooo, it is right for you and your side to tell churches to stay out of and away from politics completely? Isn't that an attempt at removing the freedom of speech from the Christian right?

I don't think it matters politically either way. I don't like the church being controversial. I want my church always in a good light, so it can serve its purpose of helping lost souls. When it takes a position in politics, they loose the ear of people that it could touch in a positive way.

Politics are cut throat, and both sides would sell their mothers to win, so don't think for a minute they won't sell God short to win. I don't like it when either party does it and they both are guilty of it. Nor do I like it when a politician sells herself as God fearing, when I know it is all about getting votes and moving her agenda. Yes I just said that your beloved Sara is using God to get votes.

Is everything political with you? You are way to caught up in this stuff. You need to go train your dog and stop letting these spin doctors and cable news guys rawl you up.

ducknwork
04-22-2010, 12:21 PM
I don't think it matters politically either way. I don't like the church being controversial. I want my church always in a good light, so it can serve its purpose of helping lost souls. When it takes a position in politics, they loose the ear of people that it could touch in a positive way.

Oh, it matters very much politically. Because you want to silence those who you don't agree with. That's a problem. Differing opinions is a good thing. If your church is not controversial and is always in a good light, then that would lead me to believe that your church is not doing a good job of leading people to God. A church should stand firm in it's beliefs no matter what society says. If it does that, it WILL NOT be accepted. Things that go against societal norms are often looked down upon and attacked by those who disagree. That's where controversy arises.

Politics are cut throat, and both sides would sell their mothers to win, so don't think for a minute they won't sell God short to win. I don't like it when either party does it and they both are guilty of it. Nor do I like it when a politician sells herself as God fearing, when I know it is all about getting votes and moving her agenda. Yes I just said that your beloved Sara is using God to get votes.

I don't know why you keep acting like I am in love with Palin or something...Must be your imagination acting up again. I do believe that she is not using God to get votes. Did it ever occur to you that maybe she is a true Christian who stands up for what she believes in, regardless of how popular it is? Or do you just paint her with the same broad brush that anti's use for all Christians? Just because someone professes to be a Christian doesn't mean that they are hypocrites or fakes etc etc...Some are actually true to the Word.

Is everything political with you? You are way to caught up in this stuff. You need to go train your dog and stop letting these spin doctors and cable news guys rawl you up.

I don't even watch those spin doctors...

WRL
04-22-2010, 12:58 PM
You're right. It was from Alaska, not her house. But still, does that qualify her in foreign affairs? That was the context in which those comments were made! Please feel free to correct my misquotations with the intelligent actual ones, and we'll see if my point still stands!? Please do not revoke her MENSA card, based on my inaccurate descriptions! :rolleyes:

You ARE aware you can in fact "see Russia from Alaska" right??

You ARE aware that the State of Alaska and Russia have "a lot" of foreign affair issues that are dealt with on a "Statewide" basis correct?

I don't think that is ALL the experience a potential Pres candidate should have in foreign affairs but many many VICE PRES candidates and several Pres candidates have had less.

WRL

road kill
04-22-2010, 12:58 PM
You're right. It was from Alaska, not her house. But still, does that qualify her in foreign affairs? That was the context in which those comments were made! Please feel free to correct my misquotations with the intelligent actual ones, and we'll see if my point still stands!? Please do not revoke her MENSA card, based on my inaccurate descriptions! :rolleyes:


It actuaully gives her more experience than the guy that's in the office!!:D



rk

dnf777
04-22-2010, 01:08 PM
It actuaully gives her more experience than the guy that's in the office!!:D



rk

What? I thought he was a Kenyan, raised in Indonesia? Only coming to America as a senator to infiltrate the US Gov't?

JDogger
04-22-2010, 01:09 PM
It actuaully gives her more experience than the guy that's in the office!!:D
rk

Not anymore, and she's falling further behind all the time. In 2012 we'll have a seasoned incumbent and ???? someone else. :rolleyes:

JD

road kill
04-22-2010, 01:11 PM
What? I thought he was a Kenyan, raised in Indonesia? Only coming to America as a senator to infiltrate the US Gov't?
If you say so, but list his pre-Presidential foreign policy experience.



I'm waiting..........:D



rk

dnf777
04-22-2010, 01:13 PM
You ARE aware you can in fact "see Russia from Alaska" right??
WRL

Sure. A desolate island in the straight. But how does that qualify you in foreign affairs? I can see the Joy Mining Company from here, but I'm no expert in coal-mining.

My only point was she technically met the definition of "bimbo", by 1) being an attractive woman, and 2) having a questionable level of intelligence. I think those are both fair assessments. By the way, has anyone personally seen her birth certificate? :)

Uncle Bill
04-22-2010, 01:17 PM
The problem is the church should not be in politics at any level. And as long as they do, they will be a target of criticism. Me personally would prefer the church to serve its purpose of bringing people closer to God and stay out of politics. I don't need them telling me how to think, nor do we need the church as a target of criticism from either side. Best way to avoid getting stinch on you is to stay away from things that smell.


Based on that information, you apparently have NO church to go to. It's been my observation the black lead churchs are almost profoundly political...certainly their leadership that claim to be ministers...Jackson, Sharpton, Wright, Farrakhan etc... wouldn't think of stating anything political while standing in their pulpits. :-)

You yahoos that reside in glass houses should really consider what your stone throwing is doing to your identity. You indeed are all so transparent, why should we even give you the time to read what you write, when we know going in it's pure hypocrisy, or, at a minumum, completely whimsical.

But then, you are not guilty of getting any 'stinch' on you eh?

UB

Roger Perry
04-22-2010, 02:07 PM
Regurgitated fiction. She never said she could see Russia from her house. And 99% of the moonbats who snicker about the Putin comment know neither exactly what she said nor the context in which she said it.

And if spouting inaccuracies justifies her being called a bimbo, does that make you a mimbo? ;-)

How about the advice she gave to President Obama *******

Palin’s Advice To Obama To Help His Re-Election: Start A War With Iran

Spoken like a true BIMBO!!!!!

JDogger
04-22-2010, 02:07 PM
If you say so, but list his pre-Presidential foreign policy experience.



I'm waiting..........:D



rk

I don't know if you're asking me or dnf, but if it's me I'll concede your point.

There were a few candidates with foreign policy experience last go-round, but they were not elected.

Fortunetly the POTUS has many resources to draw counsel from. I'll list a few DOS, DOD, NSA, CIA and I mean the senior staffers not the cabinet heads. His staff, which come from a varied background, as well as senior members of congress, many with foreign policy experience. (a point against term limits).

All of these resources will be available to the next POTUS, however inexperienced she or he might be.

JD

road kill
04-22-2010, 02:07 PM
How about the advice she gave to President Obama *******

Palin’s Advice To Obama To Help His Re-Election: Start A War With Iran

Spoken like a true BIMBO!!!!!

You can't help yourself can ya????




rk

Buzz
04-22-2010, 02:14 PM
You ARE aware that the State of Alaska and Russia have "a lot" of foreign affair issues that are dealt with on a "Statewide" basis correct?


WRL

For example??....

What role does state government play in US foreign affairs?

ducknwork
04-22-2010, 02:15 PM
If you say so, but list his pre-Presidential foreign policy experience.



I'm waiting..........:D



rk

Obama even had friends that were very knowledgeable on the subject of terrorism.

The only catch is that they were the terrorists...and the target was within the US...

WRL
04-22-2010, 02:20 PM
Sure. A desolate island in the straight. But how does that qualify you in foreign affairs? I can see the Joy Mining Company from here, but I'm no expert in coal-mining.

My only point was she technically met the definition of "bimbo", by 1) being an attractive woman, and 2) having a questionable level of intelligence. I think those are both fair assessments. By the way, has anyone personally seen her birth certificate? :)

Desolate it might be, but it IS inhabited.....both islands are. And in the winter, you CAN walk from here to there.

There are HUGE Russian Delgations that end up in Alaska every year for plenty of political issues.

But my point WAS, what she said was in fact a true statement.

You would have to have lived in Alaska in order to understand the "Alaskan Mentality". Alaskans probably in general associate themselves more with Canada or Russia then the "lower 48".

I don't think she is "lower intellect"....I think she comes across (maybe on purpose or maybe not) in a "folksy unpolished" way and that grinds on people.

Whether you want to admit it or not, we like our politicians "polished".....just look at all the posts about Obama and the teleprompter and Bush and is "nukler" enunciations.

WRL

WRL
04-22-2010, 02:23 PM
For example??....

What role does state government play in US foreign affairs?

Oil and agriculture are two such topics that are discussed on a frequent basis.

WRL

JDogger
04-22-2010, 02:27 PM
Obama even had friends that were very knowledgeable on the subject of terrorism.

The only catch is that they were the terrorists...and the target was within the US...

Are you suggesting that Obama now consults with Bill Ayers on matters of foreign policy? You can cite a reference I'm sure.

ducknwork
04-22-2010, 03:00 PM
Are you suggesting that Obama now consults with Bill Ayers on matters of foreign policy? You can cite a reference I'm sure.

Umm. No. Methinks you are reading into my statement too much...I suggested nothing. Just made a statement.:cool:


RK said pre-Presidential foreign experience. That would rule out your statement "Obama now consults with Bill Ayers". Most of the time, when you think of terrorism, you think of foreign terrorists, right? So it was sortof a play on words, if you will.

Why are you getting so defensive, JD?

Roger Perry
04-22-2010, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Roger Perry http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=603246#post603246)
How about the advice she gave to President Obama *******

Palin’s Advice To Obama To Help His Re-Election: Start A War With Iran

Spoken like a true BIMBO!!!!!

You can't help yourself can ya????
rk

ANYONE who makes an ignorant statement like that would have to be classified as a BIMBO!!!!!

menmon
04-22-2010, 03:11 PM
I don't even watch those spin doctors...

If they talk politics, I find another church, even if they agree with me.

But what is anti-Christian about helping the poor and giving healthcare to those who don't have it. I don't know what Bible you are reading but these are Christian quailities.

Now taxing people to take care of those that can't take care of themselves is anti-church, since its taking dollars that might have been the church's.

JDogger
04-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Umm. No. Methinks you are reading into my statement too much...I suggested nothing. Just made a statement.:cool:


RK said pre-Presidential foreign experience. That would rule out your statement "Obama now consults with Bill Ayers". Most of the time, when you think of terrorism, you think of foreign terrorists, right? So it was sortof a play on words, if you will.

Why are you getting so defensive, JD?

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll176/JDoggger/smilies/mouse.gif

Good try ducknwork, good try.

Hew
04-22-2010, 03:53 PM
You're right. It was from Alaska, not her house. But still, does that qualify her in foreign affairs? That was the context in which those comments were made! Please feel free to correct my misquotations with the intelligent actual ones, and we'll see if my point still stands!? Please do not revoke her MENSA card, based on my inaccurate descriptions! :rolleyes:
If she's as dumb as you say she is then why do you (and now Roger Perry Mason with his ridiculous notion that she was advising Obama to start a war with Iran) have to resort to using fictional examples of her stupidity?

huntinman
04-22-2010, 04:00 PM
If she's as dumb as the libs try to make her out to be, how would she rise from mom on the PTA, to Mayor, to head of the state oil & gas association, to Governor, to VP Nominee? I don't think the individual that does any one of those could be called dumb. The ridicule is just an attemt to marginalize her the same way they do the Tea party Folks who may well be the downfall of many of the left's favorite politicians...

Uncle Bill
04-22-2010, 04:06 PM
If she's as dumb as you say she is then why do you (and now Roger Perry Mason with his ridiculous notion that she was advising Obama to start a war with Iran) have to resort to using fictional examples of her stupidity?



It's the epitome of the answer issued by the "E=MCsquared" father, HEW...you know, when he was asked what the difference is between genius and idiocy, he said, "Genius has limitations".

UB

menmon
04-22-2010, 04:10 PM
If she's as dumb as the libs try to make her out to be, how would she rise from mom on the PTA, to Mayor, to head of the state oil & gas association, to Governor, to VP Nominee? I don't think the individual that does any one of those could be called dumb. The ridicule is just an attemt to marginalize her the same way they do the Tea party Folks who may well be the downfall of many of the left's favorite politicians...

She does not need any help showing her shortcomings, she has that covered just fine.

The Tea Party is one of the bestest things going for the democrats, because every crazy on the right is aligning themselves with them. Not good for republicans.

huntinman
04-22-2010, 04:14 PM
She does not need any help showing her shortcomings, she has that covered just fine.

The Tea Party is one of the bestest things going for the democrats, because every crazy on the right is aligning themselves with them. Not good for republicans.

You did not answer my question, you just continued the lame marginalization of the Tea Party. Hopefully you and all the libs will keep thinking that way, as the Dems get swept out of office. The Democrat party and Obama are showing every day that they could care less what the "people" want. In November, it will be the "people's" turn to respond...

Hew
04-22-2010, 04:19 PM
the difference is between genius and idiocy, he said, "Genius has limitations".
That's awesome. Never heard it before. :D

dnf777
04-22-2010, 04:23 PM
Hopefully you and all the libs will keep thinking that way, as the Dems get swept out of office...

Kind of like the boat the republicans are in right now after '06 and '08?

huntinman
04-22-2010, 04:26 PM
Kind of like the boat the republicans are in right now after '06 and '08?

R's screwed it up bigtime, but it seems to me the Dems did not learn from that. They have gone absolutely nuts with the power and I think it's gonna bite them big.

dnf777
04-22-2010, 04:34 PM
R's screwed it up bigtime, but it seems to me the Dems did not learn from that. They have gone absolutely nuts with the power and I think it's gonna bite them big.

You're probably right.
My prediction: ANY entity that lives in DC for more than a year or two starts thinking too much of itself, and goes nuts with power. What neither side seems to realize as they're grabbing power, is that eventually the opposition will regain control, and wield that same power against them. NO president or party has willingly given up power, even if they fought against it originally.

BonMallari
04-22-2010, 04:52 PM
She does not need any help showing her shortcomings, she has that covered just fine.

The Tea Party is one of the bestest things going for the democrats, because every crazy on the right is aligning themselves with them. Not good for republicans.

where do you get these assumptions from ?.....the Tea Party has scared all the RINO's and incumbents and given a much needed kick in the pants to R's to wake up and get their priorities back in line with what their constituents want...

menmon
04-22-2010, 05:01 PM
You did not answer my question, you just continued the lame marginalization of the Tea Party. Hopefully you and all the libs will keep thinking that way, as the Dems get swept out of office. The Democrat party and Obama are showing every day that they could care less what the "people" want. In November, it will be the "people's" turn to respond...

What the Tea Party stands for is not what the people want it is what the Tea Party wants. Example: I don't want what they want and I think I qualify as people.

Buzz
04-22-2010, 05:16 PM
What the Tea Party stands for is not what the people want it is what the Tea Party wants. Example: I don't want what they want and I think I qualify as people.

I'm not sure, do you qualify as a person, but you and I are people?

I get a real kick out of hearing over and over that they are not listening to "the people." No, they are not listening to "those people." :cool:

huntinman
04-22-2010, 05:24 PM
I'm not sure, do you qualify as a person, but you and I are people?

I get a real kick out of hearing over and over that they are not listening to "the people." No, they are not listening to "those people." :cool:

What the Tea Party stands for is not what the people want it is what the Tea Party wants. Example: I don't want what they want and I think I qualify as people.

you guys are as tone deaf as the Democrat politicians. Lets revisit this after the first week in Nov....

depittydawg
04-22-2010, 06:28 PM
If she's as dumb as the libs try to make her out to be, how would she rise from mom on the PTA, to Mayor, to head of the state oil & gas association, to Governor, to VP Nominee? I don't think the individual that does any one of those could be called dumb. The ridicule is just an attemt to marginalize her the same way they do the Tea party Folks who may well be the downfall of many of the left's favorite politicians...

I don't know. George made it all the way to the White House. One thing you have to realize about Republican national "leaders". They aren't leaders at all. They are figureheads that have an ability to rally people. The power behind the Republican movements is not their figureheads. It is the power brokers who prop the figureheads and stay out of the limelight, coupled with the propagandists who manipulate opinion through those figureheads.

depittydawg
04-22-2010, 06:30 PM
Obama even had friends that were very knowledgeable on the subject of terrorism.

The only catch is that they were the terrorists...and the target was within the US...

No doubt you heard that at a Tea Party Rally.

BonMallari
04-22-2010, 07:09 PM
I don't know. George made it all the way to the White House. One thing you have to realize about Republican national "leaders". They aren't leaders at all. They are figureheads that have an ability to rally people. The power behind the Republican movements is not their figureheads. It is the power brokers who prop the figureheads and stay out of the limelight, coupled with the propagandists who manipulate opinion through those figureheads.


insert Obama for George,and exchange Dem for Rep, and put George Soros after the word power brokers, and you just described the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue ;)

huntinman
04-22-2010, 07:09 PM
I don't know. George made it all the way to the White House. One thing you have to realize about Republican national "leaders". They aren't leaders at all. They are figureheads that have an ability to rally people. The power behind the Republican movements is not their figureheads. It is the power brokers who prop the figureheads and stay out of the limelight, coupled with the propagandists who manipulate opinion through those figureheads.

You are joking right? Holy cow!! You have the biggest dunderhead to ever be elected President. Talk about a figurehead...even his telepromter thinks he's dumb... can you say George Soros? Somebody has to be pulling Bambi's strings, he sure had nothing in his past to prepare him for the job (and it shows every day). Give me a break... I am going to bang my head against a wall now...

depittydawg
04-22-2010, 07:20 PM
insert Obama for George,and exchange Dem for Rep, and put George Soros after the word power brokers, and you just described the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue ;)

The Power Brokers goes for Dems too. However, you can't argue that Obama isn't considerably more accomplished than George Bush Junior or Sarah Palin. And lets not forget Guliani. Talk about empty slates...
I have no idea why, but for some reason Republican leaders over the last generation are not very accomplished outside the world of politics. Why do you suppose that is? Democrats, at least at the Presidential level are very well educated and articulate. And the results they've posted put the Repub's to shame. Keep in mind, I'm an independent and will gladly vote for either party if they field a qualified candidate.

depittydawg
04-22-2010, 07:21 PM
You are joking right? Holy cow!! You have the biggest dunderhead to ever be elected President. Talk about a figurehead...even his telepromter thinks he's dumb... can you say George Soros? Somebody has to be pulling Bambi's strings, he sure had nothing in his past to prepare him for the job (and it shows every day). Give me a break... I am going to bang my head against a wall now...

Well, at least I accomplished something. Don't hurt yourself...

ducknwork
04-22-2010, 10:58 PM
However, you can't argue that Obama isn't considerably more accomplished than George Bush Junior or Sarah Palin.

WHAT?!! What exactly is he more accomplished at?

I can't wait to hear this one.

Steve Hester
04-23-2010, 09:25 AM
WHAT?!! What exactly is he more accomplished at?

I can't wait to hear this one.

Hell, he never even had a real job until he became President.....:rolleyes:

M&K's Retrievers
04-23-2010, 10:00 AM
Hell, he never even had a real job until he became President.....:rolleyes:

Now he is Soros' Puppet in Chief.

depittydawg
04-23-2010, 10:53 AM
WHAT?!! What exactly is he more accomplished at?

I can't wait to hear this one.

What does the President of the United States take an oath to protect and defend? That would be the Constitution of the United States. You're boy George spent eight years shredding it and I seriously doubt he's ever read it. Obama is a Harvard Graduate and was the President of the Harvard Law Review. He has taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago and has practiced as a Civil Rights attorney.
For pete's sake the
Now, you tell me what did George Bush ever accomplished other than being born into one the wealthiest and most powerful and connected families in the United States?
Bush and your Party of Republicans spent eight years running the country into the toilet. Now you can't get enough criticism for the man who's job it is to try and clean up the mess. Chances are, he'll get the job done. If he doesn't, try and remember who crapped all over the place before Obama ever road into town.

menmon
04-23-2010, 11:04 AM
You are joking right? Holy cow!! You have the biggest dunderhead to ever be elected President. Talk about a figurehead...even his telepromter thinks he's dumb... can you say George Soros? Somebody has to be pulling Bambi's strings, he sure had nothing in his past to prepare him for the job (and it shows every day). Give me a break... I am going to bang my head against a wall now...

You can call him lots of things but dumb is clearly not one of them. He has IQ than any president in our lifetime. They don't let you teach law at the number 2 law school and not be smart.

menmon
04-23-2010, 11:07 AM
Now he is Soros' Puppet in Chief.

I've never quite understood why they made Soros a villian. He is just a smart hedge fund manager that gamed the system we gave him. Don't want Soros types gaming the system...pass meaningful financial regulation.

menmon
04-23-2010, 11:10 AM
I think they made a villian out of him because he was rick and a democrat, and during the 90s he was smart money and they couldn't have people taking their Qs from a democrat when the rebublicans had all the answers.

menmon
04-23-2010, 11:14 AM
PS: Palin still is a BIMBO! and the TEA PARTY is a bunch of clueless NUTS!

M&K's Retrievers
04-23-2010, 11:39 AM
Uncle Bill, you are right. ;-)

ducknwork
04-23-2010, 11:44 AM
What does the President of the United States take an oath to protect and defend? That would be the Constitution of the United States. You're boy George spent eight years shredding it and I seriously doubt he's ever read it. Obama is a Harvard Graduate and was the President of the Harvard Law Review. He has taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago and has practiced as a Civil Rights attorney.
For pete's sake the
Now, you tell me what did George Bush ever accomplished other than being born into one the wealthiest and most powerful and connected families in the United States?
Bush and your Party of Republicans spent eight years running the country into the toilet. Now you can't get enough criticism for the man who's job it is to try and clean up the mess. Chances are, he'll get the job done. If he doesn't, try and remember who crapped all over the place before Obama ever road into town.

Harvard and Yale grad
Military service
Successful businessman
Governor

Now remember, if we are going to talk about accomplishments and being qualified, that would require talking about things that happened before the presidency. So what again did Obama accomplish?

Also, please tell me how Bush 'shredded' the Constitution and Obama is not doing more of the same.

menmon
04-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Harvard and Yale grad
Military service
Successful businessman
Governor

Now remember, if we are going to talk about accomplishments and being qualified, that would require talking about things that happened before the presidency. So what again did Obama accomplish?

Also, please tell me how Bush 'shredded' the Constitution and Obama is not doing more of the same.

Need to look at all the liberties he took away from you after 911 to start with...dig deeper and you will find more.

ducknwork
04-23-2010, 12:02 PM
Need to look at all the liberties he took away from you after 911 to start with...dig deeper and you will find more.

OK, great. Now what about the second part of the question? You know, the part about your messiah.

M&K's Retrievers
04-23-2010, 12:13 PM
Need to look at all the liberties he took away from you after 911 to start with...dig deeper and you will find more.

I haven't noticed a thing. Have you?

Buzz
04-23-2010, 12:22 PM
Harvard and Yale grad
Military service
Successful businessman
Governor

Now remember, if we are going to talk about accomplishments and being qualified, that would require talking about things that happened before the presidency. So what again did Obama accomplish?

Also, please tell me how Bush 'shredded' the Constitution and Obama is not doing more of the same.

Service in the Air National Guard, when the less privileged were going to Vietnam?

Please expand on his successes as a businessman.

How many of us do you think could have gotten into Harvard Business School after graduating from Yale with a C average?

ducknwork
04-23-2010, 02:07 PM
Service in the Air National Guard, when the less privileged were going to Vietnam?

Since we are comparing the two (Bush/Obama), my answer will simply be that regardless of whether he actually went to Nam or not, he still did more than Obama.

Please expand on his successes as a businessman.

Oil business, Texas Rangers owner...But again, since we are comparing their respective accomplishments, what experience does O have as a businessman? Or does Bush one-up him here as well?

How many of us do you think could have gotten into Harvard Business School after graduating from Yale with a C average?

1,394 (approximately) Oh...What was Obama's GPA? Thaaat's right...we have no idea, do we?

..................

dnf777
04-23-2010, 02:55 PM
Harvard and Yale grad
Military service
Successful businessman
Governor

Now remember, if we are going to talk about accomplishments and being qualified, that would require talking about things that happened before the presidency. So what again did Obama accomplish?

Also, please tell me how Bush 'shredded' the Constitution and Obama is not doing more of the same.

Ok, he was gov in a state with one of the weakest governorships in all the US. (The Lt gov and other 5 commisses run the exec branch of tx gov't)

He was a Yale/Harvard grad, and even bragged about being a "c" student. Well, maybe "brag" isn't the right word.

Please show me a business that did NOT fail under his leadership, and please exclude those bailed out by Saudi oil money or Carlisle Group money!

The military service has been beaten to death here, and I dare not resurrect that dead horse!

huntinman
04-23-2010, 03:05 PM
PS: Palin still is a BIMBO! and the TEA PARTY is a bunch of clueless NUTS!

There goes Sambo and his Masonic values again. I can tell you learned a lot from your teachings.

Buzz
04-23-2010, 03:06 PM
Please show me a business that did NOT fail under his leadership, and please exclude those bailed out by Saudi oil money or Carlisle Group money!




This is exactly what I was getting at.

huntinman
04-23-2010, 03:08 PM
Ok, he was gov in a state with one of the weakest governorships in all the US. (The Lt gov and other 5 commisses run the exec branch of tx gov't)

He was a Yale/Harvard grad, and even bragged about being a "c" student. Well, maybe "brag" isn't the right word.

Please show me a business that did NOT fail under his leadership, and please exclude those bailed out by Saudi oil money or Carlisle Group money!

The military service has been beaten to death here, and I dare not resurrect that dead horse!

Bush may have been a C student, but his GPA was still better than John Kerry's (who by the way, served in Viet Nam)

We have no clue what Obama's GPA might have been. Or anything about his scholastic "achievements". If he is the smartest guy to ever walk, why do they hide his record?

Uncle Bill
04-23-2010, 03:09 PM
Ok, he was gov in a state with one of the weakest governorships in all the US. (The Lt gov and other 5 commisses run the exec branch of tx gov't)





I suspect there may be a Texan or two...million...that may dispute that arrogant statement.

You can't help showing everyone your complete lack of any class whatsoever.

As an aside, who is your governor?

UB

menmon
04-23-2010, 03:12 PM
There goes Sambo and his Masonic values again. I can tell you learned a lot from your teachings.

We tolorate all...but that just my observations

menmon
04-23-2010, 03:14 PM
Boone Pickens is a good businessman, humanitarian and a mason, and he is supportive of Obama.

So are you telling me that Boone is stupid because he is betting on a winning horse?

huntinman
04-23-2010, 03:20 PM
We tolorate all...but that just my observations

Yes, very tolerant of you...

huntinman
04-23-2010, 03:22 PM
Boone Pickens is a good businessman, humanitarian and a mason, and he is supportive of Obama.

So are you telling me that Boone is stupid because he is betting on a winning horse?

Not stupid at all, he see's a way to make money off the global warming hoax and "green" energy

Buzz
04-23-2010, 03:29 PM
Interesting how we have to be tolerant when referring to right wingers.

Got to love that political correctness.

huntinman
04-23-2010, 03:33 PM
Interesting how we have to be tolerant when referring to right wingers.

Got to love that political correctness.


Buzz, you came to the thread a little late. Sambo was telling us all about being a mason and how tolerant they are and how he learned to respect everyone... I don't care if he or you are tolerant at all, but if you are going to talk about your values and how tolerant you are...then be that way. Anyway there's the back story on it... didn't want you to be worried about being tolerant to a conservative.

menmon
04-23-2010, 03:34 PM
Ya'll have a good weekend!

Right-wingers, please spend the weekend observing the many less fortunate and consider for a minute, under different circumstances, you could have been one of those less fortunates.

Will pick up the debate Monday. I havn't given up on you yet. I know there is a heart hidden somewhere.

Buzz
04-23-2010, 03:53 PM
... didn't want you to be worried about being tolerant to a conservative.


I appreciate that.

On a more interesting topic, sure wish I knew what's going on in the open at Jayhawk...;-)

ducknwork
04-23-2010, 04:28 PM
1Ok, he was gov in a state with one of the weakest governorships in all the US. (The Lt gov and other 5 commisses run the exec branch of tx gov't)

2He was a Yale/Harvard grad, and even bragged about being a "c" student. Well, maybe "brag" isn't the right word.

3Please show me a business that did NOT fail under his leadership, and please exclude those bailed out by Saudi oil money or Carlisle Group money!

4The military service has been beaten to death here, and I dare not resurrect that dead horse!


1. Debatable, but at least he had some executive office experience...
2. Now I ask for a second time...What was Obama's GPA?
3. From wikipedia:

Returning to Texas after the successful campaign, he purchased a share in the Texas Rangers baseball franchise in April 1989, where he served as managing general partner for five years.[57] He actively led the team's projects and regularly attended its games, often choosing to sit in the open stands with fans.[58] The sale of Bush's shares in the Rangers in 1998 brought him over $15 million from his initial $800,000 investment.

$14,200,000 is a nice profit. I would call that successful.
4. Regardless of questions about his service, he served. As proud of a veteran as you seem to be, I find it interesting that you would belittle another veteran. Oh, by the way...Obama never served.

Please remember that the origin of this was deppitydawg claiming that the messiah was more accomplished before becoming president than George Bush and Sarah Palin (who didn't even run for prez, mind you). I am still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what accomplishments he had that outweigh Palin's, Bush's, Clinton's or anyone's for that matter!

Uncle Bill
04-23-2010, 05:05 PM
You won't because there are none. The libs on board don't have a clue how to defend their beliefs in Obama, they just keep falling on the sword for him.

It has NEVER had anything to do with what Obama sttod for or had done in his life, that's indefensable. It ALWAYS had only to do with how much they hated Bush, Palin, and conservatism. In other words, they are the fools of the nation that follow the rest of the sheeple into joining the Something For Nothing crowd; completely satisfied to allow their freedoms to be legislated away so they can get on board with the Big Government handouts, and practice their class envy.

There is no concept of what will happen to this nation when more producers shut down...another Atlas that just shrugged. They can't imagine how we are but a few years away from the same situation we can watch unfolding in Greece almost daily.

What Obama is doing is being orchestrated by his advisors like George Soros. His Acorn education among the thugs of Chicago only taught him how to read a teleprompter. He hasn't written any of what he believes or states. He's purely an empty suit that's succeeded in pulling the wool over the eyes of the SFN crowd. What's incredibly amazing is how the Bush haters fell for it as well.

UB

M&K's Retrievers
04-23-2010, 09:18 PM
Ya'll have a good weekend!

Right-wingers, please spend the weekend observing the many less fortunate and consider for a minute, under different circumstances, you could have been one of those less fortunates.

Will pick up the debate Monday. I havn't given up on you yet. I know there is a heart hidden somewhere.

Must be time for you to punch out on the old time clock. IHOP must be computing on someone else' nickle.:razz:;):D:-P

dnf777
04-24-2010, 10:38 AM
3. From wikipedia:


$14,200,000 is a nice profit. I would call that successful.



Chiles, a family friend who called Bush “Young Pup” when he was a kid, was eager to sell to Bush. And so Bush and DeWitt quickly assembled a team of investors. They hit a snag when Peter Ueberroth, then commissioner of Major League Baseball, told them he wouldn’t approve the sale without more investors from Texas. Ueberroth believed that local owners would be less likely to relocate the team. The commissioner, a GOP donor himself, wanted the deal approved before his term expired at the end of 1989, and so he and then-American League president Bobby Brown took it on themselves to line up Fort Worth financier Richard E. Rainwater.

Rainwater and Bush weren’t exactly strangers. Rainwater was a contributor to his father’s presidential campaigns and, later, an overnight guest in the Bush White House. Until 1986, he was the chief money manager for the Bass brothers, Fort Worth billionaires who financed drilling in Bahrain by the Harken Energy Corp., a company that in 1986 had bought out Spectrum 7, one of Bush’s oil companies.

By 1988, Rainwater was managing his own fortune. He agreed to put money in the Rangers, but only if his trusted associate, Edward “Rusty” Rose, was installed as general managing partner along with Bush.

With this arrangement in place, Bush and his partners bought the team from Chiles on April 21, 1989, for $86 million. To scrape together his $500,000 stake in the Rangers, Bush borrowed the money from a bank in Midland where he once was a director. He owned 1.8 percent of the Rangers. (He later invested an additional $106,302).

Bush made up for his minor stake by taking more than his share of credit for bringing the owners together. “I wasn’t going to let this deal fail,” he said last year. “I wanted to put together the group. I was tenacious.”

Others close to the deal paint a different picture.

“George W. Bush deserves great credit for the development of the franchise,” Ueberroth said. “However, the bringing together of the buying group was the result of Richard Rainwater, Rusty Rose, Dr. Bobby Brown, and the commissioner.”

Not exactly Bush's brainchild. That was also the story at Arbusto, where dear W was basically a named-figure, carrying access to the vice-president of the United States and former CIA director, and quite correctly assumed, the future president of the United States. I will give him credit though, when it comes to riding off Daddy's name and success, NOBODY has ever done it better! I just think the guy fails to uphold the traditional Republican values of being self-made and accepting responsibility for one's actions. Many on this list live by those values, and I'm surprised they all give him such an easy pass on that.

huntinman
04-24-2010, 11:03 AM
Chiles, a family friend who called Bush “Young Pup” when he was a kid, was eager to sell to Bush. And so Bush and DeWitt quickly assembled a team of investors. They hit a snag when Peter Ueberroth, then commissioner of Major League Baseball, told them he wouldn’t approve the sale without more investors from Texas. Ueberroth believed that local owners would be less likely to relocate the team. The commissioner, a GOP donor himself, wanted the deal approved before his term expired at the end of 1989, and so he and then-American League president Bobby Brown took it on themselves to line up Fort Worth financier Richard E. Rainwater.

Rainwater and Bush weren’t exactly strangers. Rainwater was a contributor to his father’s presidential campaigns and, later, an overnight guest in the Bush White House. Until 1986, he was the chief money manager for the Bass brothers, Fort Worth billionaires who financed drilling in Bahrain by the Harken Energy Corp., a company that in 1986 had bought out Spectrum 7, one of Bush’s oil companies.

By 1988, Rainwater was managing his own fortune. He agreed to put money in the Rangers, but only if his trusted associate, Edward “Rusty” Rose, was installed as general managing partner along with Bush.

With this arrangement in place, Bush and his partners bought the team from Chiles on April 21, 1989, for $86 million. To scrape together his $500,000 stake in the Rangers, Bush borrowed the money from a bank in Midland where he once was a director. He owned 1.8 percent of the Rangers. (He later invested an additional $106,302).

Bush made up for his minor stake by taking more than his share of credit for bringing the owners together. “I wasn’t going to let this deal fail,” he said last year. “I wanted to put together the group. I was tenacious.”

Others close to the deal paint a different picture.

“George W. Bush deserves great credit for the development of the franchise,” Ueberroth said. “However, the bringing together of the buying group was the result of Richard Rainwater, Rusty Rose, Dr. Bobby Brown, and the commissioner.”

Not exactly Bush's brainchild. That was also the story at Arbusto, where dear W was basically a named-figure, carrying access to the vice-president of the United States and former CIA director, and quite correctly assumed, the future president of the United States. I will give him credit though, when it comes to riding off Daddy's name and success, NOBODY has ever done it better! I just think the guy fails to uphold the traditional Republican values of being self-made and accepting responsibility for one's actions. Many on this list live by those values, and I'm surprised they all give him such an easy pass on that.

Now that sounds like an unbiased source:rolleyes:

Steve Hester
04-24-2010, 11:09 AM
I suspect there may be a Texan or two...million...that may dispute that arrogant statement.

You can't help showing everyone your complete lack of any class whatsoever.

As an aside, who is your governor?

UB

UB, it just proves he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.:rolleyes: Besides, he comes from the state of "blowhard Biden".

dnf777
04-24-2010, 01:44 PM
Now that sounds like an unbiased source:rolleyes:

What fact do you dispute? Or is this just another "I don't like the truth, so let me attack the source and maybe it will alter the reality" maneuver?

dnf777
04-24-2010, 01:50 PM
UB, it just proves he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.:rolleyes: Besides, he comes from the state of "blowhard Biden".

Wow! That's DEEP! I'm from the same state that is 46,000 square miles as the VP, a state which is very diverse, and has gone for both dems a re repubs in the recent past, and somehow THAT validates or invalidates my commment?? Wow, you're gonna have to do better than that! Besides, I wouldn't rag on Pennsylvania, we had to show Texas how to drill for oil. ;-)

huntinman
04-24-2010, 02:04 PM
What fact do you dispute? Or is this just another "I don't like the truth, so let me attack the source and maybe it will alter the reality" maneuver?

I'm not disputing anything, but you can tell from the tone and a few of the author's snide comments, that he is just another Bush hater. So take it with a grain of salt is my point.

dnf777
04-24-2010, 02:28 PM
I'm not disputing anything, but you can tell from the tone and a few of the author's snide comments, that he is just another Bush hater. So take it with a grain of salt is my point.

Using that logic, we should take everything said about Obama on this forum with a grain of salt then? ;)

Bush may have been lots of things, but a successful businessman was not one of them. Judging him by his performance as our country's CEO, he laid off workers, nearly doubled the debt incurred by all the leaders combined before him, and left unfinished business (in the form of two wars) for the next guy to clean up. Not a good businessman by any standards!

M&K's Retrievers
04-24-2010, 02:33 PM
... we had to show Texas how to drill for oil. ;-)

Yeah, right.

dnf777
04-24-2010, 07:49 PM
Yeah, right.

Dig out your history book. Check under Col. Drake's well, Titusville, Pa.
I have wooden oil tanks on my property older than Exxon-Mobil company.

Steve Hester
04-25-2010, 06:13 PM
Using that logic, we should take everything said about Obama on this forum with a grain of salt then? ;)

Bush may have been lots of things, but a successful businessman was not one of them. Judging him by his performance as our country's CEO, he laid off workers, nearly doubled the debt incurred by all the leaders combined before him, and left unfinished business (in the form of two wars) for the next guy to clean up. Not a good businessman by any standards!

I don't hate Obama. I just don't like Socialists.:rolleyes:

huntinman
04-25-2010, 06:20 PM
[QUOTE=dnf777;604216]Using that logic, we should take everything said about Obama on this forum with a grain of salt then? ;)

QUOTE]

Probably not a bad policy regarding anything said on any forum... regardless of the author's political bent...

menmon
04-26-2010, 08:11 AM
1. Debatable, but at least he had some executive office experience...
2. Now I ask for a second time...What was Obama's GPA?
3. From wikipedia:


$14,200,000 is a nice profit. I would call that successful.
4. Regardless of questions about his service, he served. As proud of a veteran as you seem to be, I find it interesting that you would belittle another veteran. Oh, by the way...Obama never served.

Please remember that the origin of this was deppitydawg claiming that the messiah was more accomplished before becoming president than George Bush and Sarah Palin (who didn't even run for prez, mind you). I am still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what accomplishments he had that outweigh Palin's, Bush's, Clinton's or anyone's for that matter!

He hosed the tax payers with Ranger Stadium...kind of like Jerry Jones did with Cowboy Stadium

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 09:55 AM
He hosed the tax payers with Ranger Stadium...kind of like Jerry Jones did with Cowboy Stadium

Now that's just not correct. Arlington has done very well off of both stadiums. You will not find many tax payors complaining and in fact approved each stadium before construction began. Dallas and our idiot Mayor at the time blew it big time by not even allowing it (Cowboys Stadium) to go to the voters. That has proven to be a hugh mistake for Dallas and a boon for Arlington.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 10:23 AM
I'm not disputing anything, but you can tell from the tone and a few of the author's snide comments, that he is just another Bush hater. So take it with a grain of salt is my point.

How do you tell 'tone' in a written message? Hmmm, careful doing that. It's pretty easy to completely miss it. As someone who disagreed with most of what Bush did, I can assure you , I'm no 'hater' of the man. I simply view his presidency as a complete failure on all fronts and as such, one of the worst disasters the country has ever faced.
Now you guys all project the same for Obama. You may be right. Time will tell. So far it ain't happening that way though. By this stage of Bush's presidency we had suffered the worst attack on US soil since WW2 and already had two market crashes. So far under Obama the markets have recovered about 40% and we haven't been hit by our enemies.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 10:25 AM
I don't hate Obama. I just don't like Socialists.:rolleyes:

Define socialist

Franco
04-26-2010, 10:35 AM
Define socialist




1 : one who advocates or practices socialism (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism)


Looks like it fits Obama to a T!

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 10:39 AM
PS: Palin still is a BIMBO! and the TEA PARTY is a bunch of clueless NUTS!

They're not all nuts. Only their leaders and most vocal constituents.

YardleyLabs
04-26-2010, 10:44 AM
1 : one who advocates or practices socialism (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism)


Looks like it fits Obama to a T!
Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


Right now that adds up to Citigroup (partial) and GM (partial), with both on track for being sold back to the private sector. Where has the government, under Obama, sought to take over ownership of any major portion of our production other than as a transitory action to resolve a business failure before returning the company to private hands?

dnf777
04-26-2010, 10:45 AM
Now that's just not correct. Arlington has done very well off of both stadiums. You will not find many tax payors complaining and in fact approved each stadium before construction began. Dallas and our idiot Mayor at the time blew it big time by not even allowing it (Cowboys Stadium) to go to the voters. That has proven to be a hugh mistake for Dallas and a boon for Arlington.

I always thought the old Texas Stadium looked like a huge toilet bowl.
Worst possible design for a stadium ever. They waited 30 years too long to blow it up.

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 11:15 AM
I always thought the old Texas Stadium looked like a huge toilet bowl.
Worst possible design for a stadium ever. They waited 30 years too long to blow it up.

You gotta blame Clint and Tex for that one. Jerry's last erection is something else and true to Jerry's "P.T. Barnum" form, it's bringing in the revenue from Super Bowls, Final Four, Big 12 Championship, Concerts and even Boxing.

Franco
04-26-2010, 11:17 AM
Right now that adds up to Citigroup (partial) and GM (partial), with both on track for being sold back to the private sector. Where has the government, under Obama, sought to take over ownership of any major portion of our production other than as a transitory action to resolve a business failure before returning the company to private hands?



First, it is not certain that the tax payers will ever get out of GM. I doubt the UAW will let them make much of a profit even if GM could turn a profit. If GM's spread sheet starts to look better, the UAW will claim they are owed more benefits and pay.

The Health Care debacle is one prime example of Socialism. Someone is going to have to pay for those not working and paying for health care. That money will not come out of thin air. We alreday know that unless we can stop the new Health Care bill that tax payers will be paying more. The bill need to be marginalized as it is implemented.

Then there are those stimulus jobs where they are creating useless jobs to keep people employed. A big social welfare program at the expense of the productive.

The current administration's policy on illegal immigraction is not only treasonist but socialist. Both political parties fall into that category.

YardleyLabs
04-26-2010, 11:21 AM
First, it is not certain that the tax payers will ever get out of GM. I doubt the UAW will let them make much of a profit even if GM could turn a profit. If GM's spread sheet starts to look better, the UAW will claim they are owed more benefits and pay.

The Health Care debacle is one prime example of Socialism. Someone is going to have to pay for those not working and paying for health care. That money will not come out of thin air. We alreday know that unless we can stop the new Health Care bill that tax payers will be paying more. The bill need to be marginalized as it is implemented.

Then there are those stimulus jobs where they are creating useless jobs to keep people employed. A big social welfare program at the expense of the productive.

The current administration's policy on illegal immigraction is not only treasonist but socialist. Both political parties fall into that category.
Failure to make a profit on the sale of GM stock certainly doesn't sound like socialism. Where is the health care plan is the government assuming ownership of the means of production, which is the essential element of socialism? I'm also at a loss to understand how immigration policy has anything to do with socialism. The notion that it is treasonous is also more than a little far fetched. Our forefathers exercised no control over immigration. Were they traitors?

Franco
04-26-2010, 11:39 AM
Failure to make a profit on the sale of GM stock certainly doesn't sound like socialism. No, but buying 61% of the company is.

Where is the health care plan is the government assuming ownership of the means of production, which is the essential element of socialism?
By mandating that everyone has to pay or if they can't afford it, given to them is socialism.

I'm also at a loss to understand how immigration policy has anything to do with socialism. The notion that it is treasonous is also more than a little far fetched. Our forefathers exercised no control over immigration. Were they traitors?

Ah, the old Founding Fathers again. We have laws against illegal immigration. Just as with Raegan, a new amnesty law will encourge another wave of illegals/future Democrats. I view any attempt by the Obama people to lower our Standard Of Living to be socialist. That is exactly what the are doing by letting it the poor and uneducated Mexican and Central Americans. For what? So they get the votes while tax payers pay for all their benefits like health insurance, education and other burdens these illegals bring with them! Socialism is about lowering the standard by which we live and this an attack on that standard.





>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

dnf777
04-26-2010, 12:34 PM
This whole immigration issue is much more complex and deep rooted in both parties than I think anyone truly understands. I know I don't! For the past 30 years, since illegal Mexican immigration has become a hot topic, neither major party has done anything to stem the flow.

this Arizona law seems to be at least generating talk, and thats a good thing in itself. Frankly, I don't see the problem with it. I thought officers already had the ability to investigate for possible crimes, when they had reasonable suspicion?? How is this different?

As for potential abuse, EVERYTHING has potential abuse. If we struck down every law that has ever been abused by a rougue official or officer, get out your clubs because we're going 'cave-man' again!

Having said that, will giving police expanded powers to question, detain, and possibly deport after hearings solve the immigration problem? Hell no! But its a start.

menmon
04-26-2010, 12:35 PM
First, it is not certain that the tax payers will ever get out of GM. I doubt the UAW will let them make much of a profit even if GM could turn a profit. If GM's spread sheet starts to look better, the UAW will claim they are owed more benefits and pay.

The Health Care debacle is one prime example of Socialism. Someone is going to have to pay for those not working and paying for health care. That money will not come out of thin air. We alreday know that unless we can stop the new Health Care bill that tax payers will be paying more. The bill need to be marginalized as it is implemented.

Then there are those stimulus jobs where they are creating useless jobs to keep people employed. A big social welfare program at the expense of the productive.

The current administration's policy on illegal immigraction is not only treasonist but socialist. Both political parties fall into that category.

You may not like the healthcare outcome, but it is not socialism. It just requires everyone to have health insurance. Fank's Body Shop may not like it because now he has to pay for insurance for his employees instead of us paying for it with higher premiums because of the uninsured. Please help me out with private sector insurance being a form of socialism.

menmon
04-26-2010, 12:37 PM
First, it is not certain that the tax payers will ever get out of GM. I doubt the UAW will let them make much of a profit even if GM could turn a profit. If GM's spread sheet starts to look better, the UAW will claim they are owed more benefits and pay.

The Health Care debacle is one prime example of Socialism. Someone is going to have to pay for those not working and paying for health care. That money will not come out of thin air. We alreday know that unless we can stop the new Health Care bill that tax payers will be paying more. The bill need to be marginalized as it is implemented.

Then there are those stimulus jobs where they are creating useless jobs to keep people employed. A big social welfare program at the expense of the productive.

The current administration's policy on illegal immigraction is not only treasonist but socialist. Both political parties fall into that category.

They learned from the master "Ronald Reagan" on immigration

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 12:42 PM
[QUOTE=dnf777;605070]This whole immigration issue is much more complex and deep rooted in both parties than I think anyone truly understands. I know I don't! For the past 30 years, since illegal Mexican immigration has become a hot topic, neither major party has done anything to stem the flow.

this Arizona law seems to be at least generating talk,

It's also stimulating action. Harry Reid announced last week that the Senate will take up Illegal Immigration next. Course that caused Senator Lindsey Graham to withdraw his support for bill he helped author on Climate Change. Washington does indeed work in strange ways. Go figure...

menmon
04-26-2010, 12:42 PM
How do you tell 'tone' in a written message? Hmmm, careful doing that. It's pretty easy to completely miss it. As someone who disagreed with most of what Bush did, I can assure you , I'm no 'hater' of the man. I simply view his presidency as a complete failure on all fronts and as such, one of the worst disasters the country has ever faced.
Now you guys all project the same for Obama. You may be right. Time will tell. So far it ain't happening that way though. By this stage of Bush's presidency we had suffered the worst attack on US soil since WW2 and already had two market crashes. So far under Obama the markets have recovered about 40% and we haven't been hit by our enemies.

Yea two major wars with countries that did not attack us....Good for oil and defense contractors...Only good for Americans that work for oil companies and defense contractors.

Having said this, Obama hasn't gotten out this mess yet either. I'm sick of hearing how we are fighting these wars in the name of liberty. It all about the money. Tax payer money too is funding it, but no one complains about the billions being thrown away for this foolishness, but for good sake lets not spend a dime on our neighbors to provide them healthcare.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 12:44 PM
You may not like the healthcare outcome, but it is not socialism. It just requires everyone to have health insurance. Fank's Body Shop may not like it because now he has to pay for insurance for his employees instead of us paying for it with higher premiums because of the uninsured. Please help me out with private sector insurance being a form of socialism.

The 'Socialism' concepts of Healthcare reform were thrown out long before the final vote. Too bad, cause it works for every other industrial nation on the planet. There is nothing even close to socialized medicine in the recent reform debacle.

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 01:20 PM
You may not like the healthcare outcome, but it is not socialism. It just requires everyone to have health insurance. Fank's Body Shop may not like it because now he has to pay for insurance for his employees instead of us paying for it with higher premiums because of the uninsured. Please help me out with private sector insurance being a form of socialism.

Simple really. Private sector insurance is not socialism but the end result of obamacare will be. Many individuals and employers will not buy insurance but pay the fine until diagnosed with something. At that time they will purchase insurance that will cover their pre-existing condition, get the problem fixed then drop the coverage and start paying the fine again. Insurance companies, without the protection of underwriting or pre-existing limitations will go broke or stop writing health insurance resulting in the single payor system which is what obama and the Dems wanted all along. I suspect that under obamacare the number of uninsureds will increase as people scam the system. Trust me, your not going to like it.

menmon
04-26-2010, 02:41 PM
Simple really. Private sector insurance is not socialism but the end result of obamacare will be. Many individuals and employers will not buy insurance but pay the fine until diagnosed with something. At that time they will purchase insurance that will cover their pre-existing condition, get the problem fixed then drop the coverage and start paying the fine again. Insurance companies, without the protection of underwriting or pre-existing limitations will go broke or stop writing health insurance resulting in the single payor system which is what obama and the Dems wanted all along. I suspect that under obamacare the number of uninsureds will increase as people scam the system. Trust me, your not going to like it.

I assure you no insurance companies are going broke...they wrote most of the bill.

But it gives me comfort that the bill will be a success to hear you say this, because every predition so far from the right has been wrong, so healthcare reform should be a great success.

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 02:47 PM
[QUOTE=sambo;605165]I assure you no insurance companies are going broke...they wrote most of the bill.

/QUOTE]

Not so. Link please and not your opinion.

menmon
04-26-2010, 03:36 PM
[QUOTE=sambo;605165]I assure you no insurance companies are going broke...they wrote most of the bill.

/QUOTE]

Not so. Link please and not your opinion.

My links I can't put on the net because we pay for them, unlike yours that are opinions not facts. But if you want to look yourself, google these stats:

Euro/dollar
Yen/Dollar
S&P 500
TARP payback
GM payback
AIG payback
Inflation CPI & PPI
Industrial Production
Consumer spending
Consumer sentiment

If you need more stats to prove the right has been wrong on every front, please let me know and I'll point you at more.

PS: Palin still is a BIMBO and the TEA PARTY are NUTS

caryalsobrook
04-26-2010, 04:42 PM
I have read this forum for quite a while and Sambo's statements have prompted me to speak up. If this is long and windy, I appologize. I am a dentist of 34 years and retired(maybe-maybe not-depends on the next 4 years) in March 2008. One statement about medicine. Obama said "You will be able to keep your doctor". Well tell that to the 5000 patients previously teated my the Mayo clinic in Arizona that can no longer receive treatment there. The Mayo clinic terminated them all in one day. Enough of that now about dentistry which I know a little about.


Dentistry probably has the least involvement with the government of any of the health professions. As a result the profession has not experienced the management by the government that other sectors have. Medicare does not cover dentistry is an example. There may be a few minor exceptions which I am not familiar with but there is no coverage in general dentistry.

Dentistry do aproximately 1/3 of the work that comes in the office. The other 2/3 never gets done. The reason is because dentistry fro the most part is elective. Patients need a crown but choose to do nothing or have the tooth extracted. Patients need periodontal (gum) treatment but choose to do nothing. They make these choices because they don't want to pay for them. These are just a few examples and I could give you plenty more. If the government tells the public that all they have to do to get dental treatment is go the the dentist then the only way is to RATION THE CARE. if dentists practiced 24 hours a day seven days a week, there is no way the demand could be met no matter how much the fees are.

I have seen dental work from what used to be West Germany, France and Japan and I am proud to say that the work overall done in the US is FAR superior to those countries. I had a patient from West Germany who was here visiting her boyfriend for the summer and came to my office for treatment. She need work at today's fees was probably about $12,000. I asked her why she didn't get it done and West Germany and whe said "you don't understand, they don't do root canals and crowns; they do fillings or take the teeth out". I want the work done and it must be done by the end of the summer and I will pay for it.

If healthcare is socialized, then the government must and will determine the level of treatment a patient will receive. You will not be able to hire me as a dentist because I will only be allowed to work for the government. There will be no charity because the gov will determine the level af treatment.

As a dentist, my individual freedom to be hired by whosoever chosses and I choose to work for will be gone. The quality of my profession which I love dearly will be compromised. The US will no longer be the country that people from all over the world come for treatment.
How do I feel about the people that would do these things? I certainly do not want to treat them. I have treated all sorts of people including murderers and I have always given the best care I could. But anybody that I might treat again will hear my opinion of those who would destroy my profession and I am not talking about the money. The statement of the urologist in Florida was mild compared to how I would discribe those who would destroy my profession.

Cary Alsobrook DDS

menmon
04-26-2010, 04:54 PM
I have read this forum for quite a while and Sambo's statements have prompted me to speak up. If this is long and windy, I appologize. I am a dentist of 34 years and retired(maybe-maybe not-depends on the next 4 years) in March 2008. One statement about medicine. Obama said "You will be able to keep your doctor". Well tell that to the 5000 patients previously teated my the Mayo clinic in Arizona that can no longer receive treatment there. The Mayo clinic terminated them all in one day. Enough of that now about dentistry which I know a little about.


Dentistry probably has the least involvement with the government of any of the health professions. As a result the profession has not experienced the management by the government that other sectors have. Medicare does not cover dentistry is an example. There may be a few minor exceptions which I am not familiar with but there is no coverage in general dentistry.

Dentistry do aproximately 1/3 of the work that comes in the office. The other 2/3 never gets done. The reason is because dentistry fro the most part is elective. Patients need a crown but choose to do nothing or have the tooth extracted. Patients need periodontal (gum) treatment but choose to do nothing. They make these choices because they don't want to pay for them. These are just a few examples and I could give you plenty more. If the government tells the public that all they have to do to get dental treatment is go the the dentist then the only way is to RATION THE CARE. if dentists practiced 24 hours a day seven days a week, there is no way the demand could be met no matter how much the fees are.

I have seen dental work from what used to be West Germany, France and Japan and I am proud to say that the work overall done in the US is FAR superior to those countries. I had a patient from West Germany who was here visiting her boyfriend for the summer and came to my office for treatment. She need work at today's fees was probably about $12,000. I asked her why she didn't get it done and West Germany and whe said "you don't understand, they don't do root canals and crowns; they do fillings or take the teeth out". I want the work done and it must be done by the end of the summer and I will pay for it.

If healthcare is socialized, then the government must and will determine the level of treatment a patient will receive. You will not be able to hire me as a dentist because I will only be allowed to work for the government. There will be no charity because the gov will determine the level af treatment.

As a dentist, my individual freedom to be hired by whosoever chosses and I choose to work for will be gone. The quality of my profession which I love dearly will be compromised. The US will no longer be the country that people from all over the world come for treatment.
How do I feel about the people that would do these things? I certainly do not want to treat them. I have treated all sorts of people including murderers and I have always given the best care I could. But anybody that I might treat again will hear my opinion of those who would destroy my profession and I am not talking about the money. The statement of the urologist in Florida was mild compared to how I would discribe those who would destroy my profession.

Cary Alsobrook DDS

Doc,

I don't have much pity for dentist. I have insurance and it for the most part is worthless. In fact before there was dental insurance, it cost less to get my teeth fixed. I spend above what the insurance pays on my wife to the tune of about $5,000-$10,000 a year so she can have that perfect smile. Long story short, I've paid for second homes, kids college and numerous other privledges you dentist think you deserve. Don't tell me that your high prices are due to the price of gold either.

Every dentist I know plays half the time too. If you were doing free dental work for those that can not afford it instead of playing golf and hunting, I might find some value in your comments.

Sorry, no pity here!

dnf777
04-26-2010, 04:59 PM
Cary,
Your example of someone walking in willing to pay $12,000 is the exception, not the norm. More commonly, I hear folks belly-aching about $5 co-pays. I participate in medicare, and YES, people CAN hire me anytime they want. But because most do not have 12k in their pocket, that is not likely to happen.

As for losing your freedom to be hired by whomever you choose, that will be dictated by corporate medicine, not the gov't. Right now, if you want to work in the PIttsburgh area, you better be willing to work for UPMC, or seek a job elsewhere. In your dentistry practice, I bet you are beholden to the insurance companies in your area, right? Maybe not so much in dentistry, as there are probably more procedures and visits that people CAN afford to pay for out of pocket, to make a nice living.

I don't disagree with most of what you said, just not to the same degree. I often wish we in the medical profession had more of a business model as our dental brethren. My wife is a FP, and gets endless calls into the ER due to tooth abscesses and dental pain. None of the dental clinics have any after hour coverage, so it falls on the primary care docs. Why is this? Because any sane person would not want to subject themselves to all-nite and weekend call if they don't have to!

One other point to add (in support of your opposition to gov't takeover) If we're to be forced to work for gov't wages as in a socialized program, then where's the free healthcare, college education for our kids, retirement pay, professional licensing fee reimbursement, freedom from frivilous lawsuits, etc...that those other countries have? I'd rather not have those, and get to bill what I'm worth, but if not....hey, if Costa Rica is good for Rush, it's good for alot of folks!?

menmon
04-26-2010, 05:00 PM
PS: I googled your comment about the Mayo Clinic and I can't find anything supporting your statement.

As for as European Denistry...After the wall came down, the eastern europeans have gotten awesome crowns from west european dentist.

BonMallari
04-26-2010, 05:13 PM
Doc,

I don't have much pity for dentist. I have insurance and it for the most part is worthless. In fact before there was dental insurance, it cost less to get my teeth fixed. I spend above what the insurance pays on my wife to the tune of about $5,000-$10,000 a year so she can have that perfect smile. Long story short, I've paid for second homes, kids college and numerous other privledges you dentist think you deserve. Don't tell me that your high prices are due to the price of gold either.

Every dentist I know plays half the time too. If you were doing free dental work for those that can not afford it instead of playing golf and hunting, I might find some value in your comments.

Sorry, no pity here!

to make a blanket statement about Dr Alsobrook and his practice which you and I know NOTHING about is rude and offensive..whatever differences or hostilities you have toward dentists should not be directed toward a new member here on the RTF ,regardless of his/her profession :-x:-x

Buzz
04-26-2010, 05:19 PM
PS: I googled your comment about the Mayo Clinic and I can't find anything supporting your statement.

As for as European Denistry...After the wall came down, the eastern europeans have gotten awesome crowns from west european dentist.

Google Mayo Clinic Arizona, medicare.

They dumped a bunch of medicare patients from their primary care.

They will still take them to see specialists, but not primary care, unless they want to pay an additional $1500/year for an annual physical and 3 additional visits per year in addition to the physical.

ducknwork
04-26-2010, 05:19 PM
to make a blanket statement about Dr Alsobrook and his practice which you and I know NOTHING about is rude and offensive..whatever differences or hostilities you have toward dentists should not be directed toward a new member here on the RTF ,regardless of his/her profession :-x:-x

Especially if the blanket statement is so ignorant as that one. What was that post about 'attack attack attack' earlier today?:rolleyes:

road kill
04-26-2010, 05:20 PM
Doc,

I don't have much pity for dentist. I have insurance and it for the most part is worthless. In fact before there was dental insurance, it cost less to get my teeth fixed. I spend above what the insurance pays on my wife to the tune of about $5,000-$10,000 a year so she can have that perfect smile. Long story short, I've paid for second homes, kids college and numerous other privledges you dentist think you deserve. Don't tell me that your high prices are due to the price of gold either.

Every dentist I know plays half the time too. If you were doing free dental work for those that can not afford it instead of playing golf and hunting, I might find some value in your comments.Sorry, no pity here!

Outrageous statements.
You are way out of line.

You have done a very good job at establishing who and what you are.



rk

menmon
04-26-2010, 05:20 PM
to make a blanket statement about Dr Alsobrook and his practice which you and I know NOTHING about is rude and offensive..whatever differences or hostilities you have toward dentists should not be directed toward a new member here on the RTF ,regardless of his/her profession :-x:-x

If he thought the way I do, would you be coming to his rescue? Don't think so. You would be calling him a socialist and all those other big words that most of you Tea Partyers don't know the meaning of.

PS: Palin is a BIMBO and Tea Party are NUTS!

ducknwork
04-26-2010, 05:21 PM
Cool, now we're all stupid.

I don't think we are quite as partisan as you anyway.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 05:29 PM
I have read this forum for quite a while and Sambo's statements have prompted me to speak up. If this is long and windy, I appologize. I am a dentist of 34 years and retired(maybe-maybe not-depends on the next 4 years) in March 2008. One statement about medicine. Obama said "You will be able to keep your doctor". Well tell that to the 5000 patients previously teated my the Mayo clinic in Arizona that can no longer receive treatment there. The Mayo clinic terminated them all in one day. Enough of that now about dentistry which I know a little about.


Dentistry probably has the least involvement with the government of any of the health professions. As a result the profession has not experienced the management by the government that other sectors have. Medicare does not cover dentistry is an example. There may be a few minor exceptions which I am not familiar with but there is no coverage in general dentistry.

Dentistry do aproximately 1/3 of the work that comes in the office. The other 2/3 never gets done. The reason is because dentistry fro the most part is elective. Patients need a crown but choose to do nothing or have the tooth extracted. Patients need periodontal (gum) treatment but choose to do nothing. They make these choices because they don't want to pay for them. These are just a few examples and I could give you plenty more. If the government tells the public that all they have to do to get dental treatment is go the the dentist then the only way is to RATION THE CARE. if dentists practiced 24 hours a day seven days a week, there is no way the demand could be met no matter how much the fees are.

I have seen dental work from what used to be West Germany, France and Japan and I am proud to say that the work overall done in the US is FAR superior to those countries. I had a patient from West Germany who was here visiting her boyfriend for the summer and came to my office for treatment. She need work at today's fees was probably about $12,000. I asked her why she didn't get it done and West Germany and whe said "you don't understand, they don't do root canals and crowns; they do fillings or take the teeth out". I want the work done and it must be done by the end of the summer and I will pay for it.

If healthcare is socialized, then the government must and will determine the level of treatment a patient will receive. You will not be able to hire me as a dentist because I will only be allowed to work for the government. There will be no charity because the gov will determine the level af treatment.

As a dentist, my individual freedom to be hired by whosoever chosses and I choose to work for will be gone. The quality of my profession which I love dearly will be compromised. The US will no longer be the country that people from all over the world come for treatment.
How do I feel about the people that would do these things? I certainly do not want to treat them. I have treated all sorts of people including murderers and I have always given the best care I could. But anybody that I might treat again will hear my opinion of those who would destroy my profession and I am not talking about the money. The statement of the urologist in Florida was mild compared to how I would discribe those who would destroy my profession.

Cary Alsobrook DDS

I'm no expert in the field. Just a patient for years. Last week I asked the security guard at work "hows it going". He proceeded to tell me about a nasty toothache that he was suffering from. I think I said something like, "time to go see the dentist". He frowned and said he didn't have insurance so he was going to take a bunch of over the counter pills and get through it. That isn't right. The guy is working much more than 40hrs a week and he can't get treatment when he needs it? What about his kids? I don't know the answer but those are troubling questions.
I can also say that a few years ago, I was very upset with my healthcare provider from work. I went to my broker and said I wanted to buy my own healthcare insurance. Guess what. Nobody would sell me a policy. I was denied coverage by several firms. Why? I'm over 50 now. They don't want to touch me. Luckily, I still have the employers plan, even though it sucks. They also declined to insure my wife. Reason - she had a pre-existing condition also. She had seen the doctor for shoulder pain.

Buzz
04-26-2010, 05:33 PM
I'm no expert in the field. Just a patient for years. Last week I asked the security guard at work "hows it going". He proceeded to tell me about a nasty toothache that he was suffering from. I think I said something like, "time to go see the dentist". He frowned and said he didn't have insurance so he was going to take a bunch of over the counter pills and get through it. That isn't right. The guy is working much more than 40hrs a week and he can't get treatment when he needs it?


Hope he doesn't end up in the ER...:(

Franco
04-26-2010, 05:37 PM
Why doesn't that Security Guard go to any number of FREE medical clinics available. These clinics are everywhere!

No one suffers around here unless they are too lazy to seek free medical care.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 05:41 PM
Why doesn't that Security Guard go to any number of FREE medical clinics available. These clinics are everywhere!

No one suffers around here unless they are too lazy to seek free medical care.

Not sure we have any 'free' dental clinics in town. Might be an urgent care facility. I'll recommend that to him if he's still suffering next time I see him. Probably all they will do though is give him some pain meds and tell him to go see the dentist.

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 05:45 PM
[QUOTE=M&K's Retrievers;605167]

My links I can't put on the net because we pay for them, unlike yours that are opinions not facts. But if you want to look yourself, google these stats:

Euro/dollar
Yen/Dollar
S&P 500
TARP payback
GM payback
AIG payback
Inflation CPI & PPI
Industrial Production
Consumer spending
Consumer sentiment

If you need more stats to prove the right has been wrong on every front, please let me know and I'll point you at more.

PS: Palin still is a BIMBO and the TEA PARTY are NUTS

IHOP, none of these have any thing to do with insurance companies being instrumental in writing the obamacare legislation or your claim they are going to get rich under obamacare. As far as my opinions they are based in 35+ years in the employee benefit business in both personal production and working for and with several major carriers. Also, I never said a word about the right wing, Sarah Palin or the Tea Party.

Perhaps you could pay more attention if you didn't have to peek out of your cubicle to see if your supervisor is coming.

Franco
04-26-2010, 05:49 PM
The FREE Dental Clinics around here will perform Root Canals, fill cavities, pull teeth, bridges, braces...you name it and all paid by tax payers. They even fit our cleanup guy here at work with a mouth grill.

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 05:52 PM
Doc,

I don't have much pity for dentist. I have insurance and it for the most part is worthless. In fact before there was dental insurance, it cost less to get my teeth fixed. I spend above what the insurance pays on my wife to the tune of about $5,000-$10,000 a year so she can have that perfect smile. Long story short, I've paid for second homes, kids college and numerous other privledges you dentist think you deserve. Don't tell me that your high prices are due to the price of gold either.

Every dentist I know plays half the time too. If you were doing free dental work for those that can not afford it instead of playing golf and hunting, I might find some value in your comments.

Sorry, no pity here!

And just how much do you pay for this crummy dental insurance. My guess is that your employer pays for all of it or at least your portion. Dental Insurance is a perk and never intended to pay for everything. Quit your bitchin".

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 05:58 PM
Sambo just joined Dipptyshit on the ignore list.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 06:11 PM
Sambo just joined Dipptyshit on the ignore list.

Another brilliant comment from the floor. I'm glad I'm not hunting with him, he probably would have shot me by now :(

road kill
04-26-2010, 06:20 PM
Sambo just joined Dipptyshit on the ignore list.
I have never done that to anyone, I am very close.




rk

caryalsobrook
04-26-2010, 06:48 PM
I didn't know I would cause such a stir so fast. I was trying to make a point about the girl from Germant that she could not hire and pay a dentist to get her work done in Germany. Her freedom to spend her money on her healthcare and the freedom of the dintist to work for her was restricted. That was the point I was trying to make.

I do take some issue with Sambo's reply.

First of all, I consider myself an run of the mill dentist sore of like those Sambo is familiar with. So maybe I should tell you my story. I spent 3 years in college and recorded grades that I was not so happy with and certainly my parents were not happy with so I left college and took a job with the Department of Commerce, yes a government job. The salary was about $6000.00 a year and involved 100% travel with expenses paid. After a year I had bought a volkswagon bug for $1800 which I paid cash for and saved about $7000.00. I took the money andwent back to school for the last year and paid my way 100%. No student loans or grants or money from parents ect. Upon graduation, I took a job with IBM making about $8000.00 a year to start. After 5 years, I was making about $18000.00 a year and had saved about $12000.00. All I did was listen to 2 rules my father gave me. 1 SPEND LESS THAT YOU MAKE. 2 IT IS NOT HOW MUCH YOU MAKE, IT IS HOW MUCH YOU SAVE. I have never forgotten these rules. I started going to school at night while working for IBM in order to take the prerequisites to get in dental school. Courses in chemistry,biology, physics ect. Luckilly I made far better grades in these coursed and was fortunate to get in dental school. The $12000.00 paid my tuition, books, fees and equipment we had to buy for school. My wife worked and paid the living expenses. I did not have 2 nickels to rub together when I graduated but I did not owe a cent. I borrowed 500.00 from my father -in-law for a place for me to live for my first dental job and you guessed it for the state of Tennessee. OH by the way I was considered self employed and got a 1099 at the end of the year. My dental assistant at the health department was also considered self employed and also had no withholding or social security taxes and had to pay both with contribution from the state but that is another story. I worked there for 1 1/2 years whild I built my office and you guessed it, I lived on less than I made. By now I am 35 years old have never owned a house have not had any children and very little money, only a dental education. Once my office was completed, I went into private practice.

As I said, I am an ordinary dentist, similar to most of my dental friends and like them I have had a rewarding life. Let me tell you Sambo of some of the rewards. When I went into private practice, I was asked by the director of public health Dr. Charles Hickman a dear friend now deceased to serve of the Gibson Co. Board of Health. I was nominated and elected by the county commission and served a number of years. I'll let you Sambo research the duties to the board. Oh yes the py was $0.0 In Jackson Tennessee, there is an organization called the developmental dissabilities clinic formed and operated by dentists for those who are developmentally diabled. There I worked 1 day a week treating patients with$0.0 pay, far more rewarding than playing golf. They did not hav a dentist that would remove impacted teeth and since I did this regurlary I offered to do this at the clinic. Since they had no one working at the clinic who could assist me with this, I took my own assistant at my expense to assist me. Carey Counseling Center headquarted in Paris Tennessee employed about 50 psychiatrists(probably misspelled) and asked me to serve of the board of directors whid I did for some years. Thats right pay $0.0. They are responsible for the treatment of mentally disturbed patients and results in a great reduction of those that have to be housed in an institution. Many wonderful people did I meet, some doctors and some lay people from all over West Tennessee. Just like most all the other ordinary dentists who go to work every day and help make the place they live a better place, how many names of patients and phone numbers do you want that were treated free. I'm sure I can give you an average number that any average dentist could.

I must mention 2 here because they were so special in different ways. A lady came in with a baby 1 1/2 years old with 6 abscessed upper front baby teeth. They were abscessed so bad that her upper lib stuck out. The mother had no money. By all right, the child should have been put in a hospital but the circumstances were such that that was not going to happen. I either took the teeth out or there would be no treatment. She had already been to a number of other dentists. I had to tie the child's head to the shair and had to have 3 of my help restrain the child. The most difficult part was that the child could not speak and as such could not even tell me if the teeth were numb when I took them out. All she could do was scream and struggle. It took me about 1 1/2 hours and all the money she had was $10.00. My staff crying, begged me never to ask them to do that again. I don't know if I did the right thing or not, I just made a decision and will let God judge me. Another lady came in and I don't remember whether I took a tooth out or filled one, but she told meshe had no money and no job butwhen she got a job she would pay me. After doing the work Debbie at the front desk asked me if she should make a ledger card to bill the patient. I told her no she won't pay, she can't pay. One week later, I receiver a hand written letter from her with 2 dollars in in it. We had to make her a ledger card and as long as she owen me money, I got a hand written letter sometimes with money sometimes not. But I always got a handwritten letter. She always received treatment from me. I've gone on too long here but maybe some of these things should be said. I firmly believe that 95% of the people are good hardworking people who want to work hard and provide a better opportunity for their kids than they had. They cause 5% of the problems. 5% of the people only want to bitch how lazy and overpaid everybody else is and how underpaid they are. They cause 95% of the problems.

Sambo, I went to work and lived on far less than I made that I might go to dental school. I drove the cheapest car I could had no house, delayed having kids in order to pay for it. If dentistry is so easy and so lucrative, and you are so smart to figure it out, why the hell didn't you become a dentist????

dnf777
04-26-2010, 07:11 PM
Take it easy doc. Don't let a comment like that get you ruffled. I've likewise been told I'm a freeloader and "owe everybody big" for taking an army scholarship in order to pay for med school, (that was to keep my Dad from re-mortgaging his house to help pay, since he made just enough that it disqualified ME for student loans).

There was a thread here a while back where everyone explained what they did and some, how they got there. It was the best thread on this forum IMO, and gave me a powerful sense of respect for the people here, and what they've done.

I'm not the policeman here, and you can sure speak up for yourself, but it would be hypocritical of me not to mention that Sambo's comments ticked me off a bit. There's people I have no pity for, such as lawyers and some vets, and some dentists, and some docs, (We've ALL been screwed by certain professions at some time) but we don't need to project those prejudices onto one another here.

caryalsobrook
04-26-2010, 08:30 PM
Funny you should mention a previous thread about wht people had done in their lives. After I wrote the reply, I thought how much more you knew about someone if you kenw what they had don to make this place a better place. Much more about them than the political views they hold. You said one thing I don't agree with and that is generalizing about any group, be they dentists,md's, vets, lawyers, blacks, whites, jews, yankees, rebs:), you get my drift. I guess my upbringing taught me better than that. It is the individual and the individual's freedom that is important. Who was that that said judge man not by the color of his skin(could he mean profession, religion, ect.?) but by the content of his character? How lofty this was.

I get ruffled when anybody is judged by a group and that includes the teaparty,democrats, republicans etal. There are people here who have held public local county office as democrats for years who are terrified that they will lose the next election becauce so many people will just pull the republican lever in 2010. In my area there are democrats who classify themselves as conservative but are afraid of the label.

I feel certain we disagree on politics but I can't imagine anyone judging your medical ability based on your politics. Too bad I missed the forum on people's experiences and conributions to the places they live. I have no doubt that as you said it was the best of all.

dnf777
04-26-2010, 09:36 PM
You said one thing I don't agree with and that is generalizing about any group, be they dentists,md's, vets, lawyers, blacks, whites, jews, yankees, rebs:), you get my drift. .

That's why I said "some" vets, dentists, etc.....
I was trying to make the point that all groups have bad apples. I've gotten the shaft from all of the above at one time or another, as have most others. And we agree 100% that people should be judged as individuals, or even better yet, not judged at all, but rather just accepted as they are.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 09:45 PM
Funny you should mention a previous thread about wht people had done in their lives. After I wrote the reply, I thought how much more you knew about someone if you kenw what they had don to make this place a better place. Much more about them than the political views they hold. You said one thing I don't agree with and that is generalizing about any group, be they dentists,md's, vets, lawyers, blacks, whites, jews, yankees, rebs:), you get my drift. I guess my upbringing taught me better than that. It is the individual and the individual's freedom that is important. Who was that that said judge man not by the color of his skin(could he mean profession, religion, ect.?) but by the content of his character? How lofty this was.

I get ruffled when anybody is judged by a group and that includes the teaparty,democrats, republicans etal. There are people here who have held public local county office as democrats for years who are terrified that they will lose the next election becauce so many people will just pull the republican lever in 2010. In my area there are democrats who classify themselves as conservative but are afraid of the label.

I feel certain we disagree on politics but I can't imagine anyone judging your medical ability based on your politics. Too bad I missed the forum on people's experiences and conributions to the places they live. I have no doubt that as you said it was the best of all.

I believe it was Martin Luther King who said the quote you referenced. My dentist is pretty much opposite me politically, but he's a good dentist and I'm not going anywhere else. A few years ago I busted my femur and needed surgery. Never dawned on me to ask the surgeon what his political persuasion was.

menmon
04-27-2010, 09:40 AM
[QUOTE=sambo;605210]

IHOP, none of these have any thing to do with insurance companies being instrumental in writing the obamacare legislation or your claim they are going to get rich under obamacare. As far as my opinions they are based in 35+ years in the employee benefit business in both personal production and working for and with several major carriers. Also, I never said a word about the right wing, Sarah Palin or the Tea Party.

Perhaps you could pay more attention if you didn't have to peek out of your cubicle to see if your supervisor is coming.

Who said I had a supervisor?

You missed the point again. My point was that the republican all said the dollar was going to hell in a hand basket. Take a look at the dollar today and tell me the republicans were right. They also were predicting a double dip recession or W curve (the w must be in tribute to their president and all his failed policies). They were also telling everyone the rebound of the stock market was not real and was only going up because of the failed stimulas bill of Obama. Now that this is on the table, look back at my earlier post and see why I pointed you to all the things I did.

Now my theory is that since you and the republicans were so wrong on so many fronts, why should anyone believe you when you speak to the outcome of healthcare reform?

menmon
04-27-2010, 09:55 AM
Sambo just joined Dipptyshit on the ignore list.

I ignore your post already....no real insight...just more Glen Beck rhetoric

M&K's Retrievers
04-27-2010, 10:14 AM
I don't have any idea what he said, but it appears that IHOP is back in his cubicle. Must punch in at 8:30. Keep a sharp eye out for your boss, Sambo. Don't want to lose your puter privileges.

menmon
04-27-2010, 10:27 AM
I didn't know I would cause such a stir so fast. I was trying to make a point about the girl from Germant that she could not hire and pay a dentist to get her work done in Germany. Her freedom to spend her money on her healthcare and the freedom of the dintist to work for her was restricted. That was the point I was trying to make.

I do take some issue with Sambo's reply.

First of all, I consider myself an run of the mill dentist sore of like those Sambo is familiar with. So maybe I should tell you my story. I spent 3 years in college and recorded grades that I was not so happy with and certainly my parents were not happy with so I left college and took a job with the Department of Commerce, yes a government job. The salary was about $6000.00 a year and involved 100% travel with expenses paid. After a year I had bought a volkswagon bug for $1800 which I paid cash for and saved about $7000.00. I took the money andwent back to school for the last year and paid my way 100%. No student loans or grants or money from parents ect. Upon graduation, I took a job with IBM making about $8000.00 a year to start. After 5 years, I was making about $18000.00 a year and had saved about $12000.00. All I did was listen to 2 rules my father gave me. 1 SPEND LESS THAT YOU MAKE. 2 IT IS NOT HOW MUCH YOU MAKE, IT IS HOW MUCH YOU SAVE. I have never forgotten these rules. I started going to school at night while working for IBM in order to take the prerequisites to get in dental school. Courses in chemistry,biology, physics ect. Luckilly I made far better grades in these coursed and was fortunate to get in dental school. The $12000.00 paid my tuition, books, fees and equipment we had to buy for school. My wife worked and paid the living expenses. I did not have 2 nickels to rub together when I graduated but I did not owe a cent. I borrowed 500.00 from my father -in-law for a place for me to live for my first dental job and you guessed it for the state of Tennessee. OH by the way I was considered self employed and got a 1099 at the end of the year. My dental assistant at the health department was also considered self employed and also had no withholding or social security taxes and had to pay both with contribution from the state but that is another story. I worked there for 1 1/2 years whild I built my office and you guessed it, I lived on less than I made. By now I am 35 years old have never owned a house have not had any children and very little money, only a dental education. Once my office was completed, I went into private practice.

As I said, I am an ordinary dentist, similar to most of my dental friends and like them I have had a rewarding life. Let me tell you Sambo of some of the rewards. When I went into private practice, I was asked by the director of public health Dr. Charles Hickman a dear friend now deceased to serve of the Gibson Co. Board of Health. I was nominated and elected by the county commission and served a number of years. I'll let you Sambo research the duties to the board. Oh yes the py was $0.0 In Jackson Tennessee, there is an organization called the developmental dissabilities clinic formed and operated by dentists for those who are developmentally diabled. There I worked 1 day a week treating patients with$0.0 pay, far more rewarding than playing golf. They did not hav a dentist that would remove impacted teeth and since I did this regurlary I offered to do this at the clinic. Since they had no one working at the clinic who could assist me with this, I took my own assistant at my expense to assist me. Carey Counseling Center headquarted in Paris Tennessee employed about 50 psychiatrists(probably misspelled) and asked me to serve of the board of directors whid I did for some years. Thats right pay $0.0. They are responsible for the treatment of mentally disturbed patients and results in a great reduction of those that have to be housed in an institution. Many wonderful people did I meet, some doctors and some lay people from all over West Tennessee. Just like most all the other ordinary dentists who go to work every day and help make the place they live a better place, how many names of patients and phone numbers do you want that were treated free. I'm sure I can give you an average number that any average dentist could.

I must mention 2 here because they were so special in different ways. A lady came in with a baby 1 1/2 years old with 6 abscessed upper front baby teeth. They were abscessed so bad that her upper lib stuck out. The mother had no money. By all right, the child should have been put in a hospital but the circumstances were such that that was not going to happen. I either took the teeth out or there would be no treatment. She had already been to a number of other dentists. I had to tie the child's head to the shair and had to have 3 of my help restrain the child. The most difficult part was that the child could not speak and as such could not even tell me if the teeth were numb when I took them out. All she could do was scream and struggle. It took me about 1 1/2 hours and all the money she had was $10.00. My staff crying, begged me never to ask them to do that again. I don't know if I did the right thing or not, I just made a decision and will let God judge me. Another lady came in and I don't remember whether I took a tooth out or filled one, but she told meshe had no money and no job butwhen she got a job she would pay me. After doing the work Debbie at the front desk asked me if she should make a ledger card to bill the patient. I told her no she won't pay, she can't pay. One week later, I receiver a hand written letter from her with 2 dollars in in it. We had to make her a ledger card and as long as she owen me money, I got a hand written letter sometimes with money sometimes not. But I always got a handwritten letter. She always received treatment from me. I've gone on too long here but maybe some of these things should be said. I firmly believe that 95% of the people are good hardworking people who want to work hard and provide a better opportunity for their kids than they had. They cause 5% of the problems. 5% of the people only want to bitch how lazy and overpaid everybody else is and how underpaid they are. They cause 95% of the problems.

Sambo, I went to work and lived on far less than I made that I might go to dental school. I drove the cheapest car I could had no house, delayed having kids in order to pay for it. If dentistry is so easy and so lucrative, and you are so smart to figure it out, why the hell didn't you become a dentist????

Doc,

The point I was trying to get across (and I apologize for sounding so harsh towards you), is that many doctors believe that being a doctor entitles them to much privledge and I have no problem with people making a good wage, as my post usually support. However, when I hear doctors not supporting the care of those who can not obtain it, it rubs me very wrong, because I know the wages that many of them make, and I'm certain they can do it for much less.

Security is important for all of us, but I would like to think that most people that go into medicine do it because they want to help people. However, my personal observation has been that its about the money for most.

Your story is admirable, and I have a boot strap story too, but god has given me everything I have and I know he can take it away from me at anytime too. My wife and I were talking just this past weekend about how good our life was while we watched others going through challeges, and I reminded her that we have had some tough times too and we are not finished on this earth either.

Doc, many Americans are in a tough spot right now, some because of their own actions and other because of things they can not control. This heathcare debate and Right versus Left battle makes me sick as men pit each other against others, while the argument is no one helped me get where I am. It makes me sick when people don't want to reach out to their brothers and help them. Yes I'm sure many help their loved ones and friends but their are many people that don't have people to help them, and that is why our government must feel the gap and we should not complain about our tax dollars helping these people, because it could so easly be one of us.

I'm sure you are a good person, most dog lovers are, and I'm very sorry that I was harsh in what I wrote.

depittydawg
04-27-2010, 01:45 PM
[QUOTE=M&K's Retrievers;605371]

Who said I had a supervisor?

You missed the point again. My point was that the republican all said the dollar was going to hell in a hand basket. Take a look at the dollar today and tell me the republicans were right. They also were predicting a double dip recession or W curve (the w must be in tribute to their president and all his failed policies). They were also telling everyone the rebound of the stock market was not real and was only going up because of the failed stimulas bill of Obama. Now that this is on the table, look back at my earlier post and see why I pointed you to all the things I did.

Now my theory is that since you and the republicans were so wrong on so many fronts, why should anyone believe you when you speak to the outcome of healthcare reform?

You raise a very valid point. The longer you go back and examine the debate that has occurred in Washington, two things stand out. The Republican party, it's leaders and spokesman have been wrong on just about every issue. Unfortunately it gets worse. Examining the same debates it is also clear the democratic party, its leaders and cheerleaders have also been wrong on just about every issue.

depittydawg
04-27-2010, 01:49 PM
[QUOTE=sambo;605857]Doc,

However, when I hear doctors not supporting the care of those who can not obtain it, it rubs me very wrong, because I know the wages that many of them make, and I'm certain they can do it for much less.

Personally, I have no problem with a doctor making 250K or whatever they make these days. When you're lying on the table, they are worth every penny of it. What irks me to no end is the CEO's who make hundreds of millions and their only contribution is to destroy or steal from their companies... Now that gets my blood pressure boiling

menmon
04-27-2010, 01:54 PM
[QUOTE=sambo;605829]

You raise a very valid point. The longer you go back and examine the debate that has occurred in Washington, two things stand out. The Republican party, it's leaders and spokesman have been wrong on just about every issue. Unfortunately it gets worse. Examining the same debates it is also clear the democratic party, its leaders and cheerleaders have also been wrong on just about every issue.

I can't aruge with that...but I'm going to side with the dems for a while. I once a point a time bought into the republican rhetoric, but not anymore.

menmon
04-27-2010, 01:55 PM
[QUOTE=sambo;605857]Doc,

However, when I hear doctors not supporting the care of those who can not obtain it, it rubs me very wrong, because I know the wages that many of them make, and I'm certain they can do it for much less.

Personally, I have no problem with a doctor making 250K or whatever they make these days. When you're lying on the table, they are worth every penny of it. What irks me to no end is the CEO's who make hundreds of millions and their only contribution is to destroy or steal from their companies... Now that gets my blood pressure boiling

I have a problem with that too!

caryalsobrook
04-27-2010, 08:19 PM
Sambo

Good to see your post. How easy it is to jump to conclusions when you just look on the surface which we do most of the time. "It makes me sick when people don't want to reach out to their brothers and help them." THis is a sentence from your post. I must admit that if this were true then I would agree with you. I assure you that people do help daily and maybe you aren't aware of how much is done. I'm sure everybody can recite stories pro and con. Three recently that I am familiar with 1. The retired union rep for American Airlines and his church spent many weeks in New Orleans doing cleanup and repairing houses. 2. The doctor who continues to treat the grown stepson of a Bridgestone-Firestone employee who has full blown Parkinson's disease who has nothing but doesn't qualify for medicaid because he gets $4.00 too much from disability. His drugs cost much more than his check. The doctor treats him for free and the drug company furnishes him his medicine free. Jack(his stepfather and my friend) Said that the doctor said that Jason(the stepson) was his patient and would continue to be his patient and that he didn't care if he lost his insurance when he could no longer work. 3. An army sniper of 17 years injured in Afganistan on a land mine who was given a medical discharge(I only know him when I see him and take his story at his word) has a young son with cancer. He attempted to get treatment at St. Jude cancer children in Memphis. He was told that because of the new policy that his insurance policy deductible of $5000.00 had to be paid in advance. The story seems strange but that is what he said. A friend of mine a Mason(which I know very little about) heard the story and within 2 weeks the Shriners had paid his deductible. These are just three stories that I know of this year. kThey happen every day you may not know it but they do. Like I said I am sure that you can hear stories to the con.

What I do know is that under a country with socialized medicine you will not hear such stories. It may be hard to understand but believe me with government run healthcare there can be no charity. The government can not allow it. This is very difficult to explain but if you like you can send me your e-mail address and I will try to.

Is the US healthcare system perfect-certainly not. Does it need change- most definitely. But government run healthcare is most certainly not the answer. People come fron all over the world seeking treatment here because it is the best and they can buy it. If you put much stock in the Nobel prizes- three living american presidents have been awarded it for peace then you should know that aproxomately 83% of all Nobel prizes for medicine have been awarded to Americans- something like 46 out of 53 that have ever been awarded. Don't hold me to the exact numbers since these the best I can remember. Around 90% of all new drugs are developed by US pharmacudical companies. There is a reason for that.

A friend of mine always says "nothing is all good- nothing is all bad" and he is so right. That goes for all professions too- doctors, lawyers,dentists, plumbers,teachers, ect. I have found most people to be hard working, honest, principled people who generally want to do the right thing. This is too long and I am sure I am boring you so stop I will.

Best to you. Find a way to help your neighbor and your rewards will be greater than his.

Sincerely

menmon
04-28-2010, 02:57 PM
Sambo

Good to see your post. How easy it is to jump to conclusions when you just look on the surface which we do most of the time. "It makes me sick when people don't want to reach out to their brothers and help them." THis is a sentence from your post. I must admit that if this were true then I would agree with you. I assure you that people do help daily and maybe you aren't aware of how much is done. I'm sure everybody can recite stories pro and con. Three recently that I am familiar with 1. The retired union rep for American Airlines and his church spent many weeks in New Orleans doing cleanup and repairing houses. 2. The doctor who continues to treat the grown stepson of a Bridgestone-Firestone employee who has full blown Parkinson's disease who has nothing but doesn't qualify for medicaid because he gets $4.00 too much from disability. His drugs cost much more than his check. The doctor treats him for free and the drug company furnishes him his medicine free. Jack(his stepfather and my friend) Said that the doctor said that Jason(the stepson) was his patient and would continue to be his patient and that he didn't care if he lost his insurance when he could no longer work. 3. An army sniper of 17 years injured in Afganistan on a land mine who was given a medical discharge(I only know him when I see him and take his story at his word) has a young son with cancer. He attempted to get treatment at St. Jude cancer children in Memphis. He was told that because of the new policy that his insurance policy deductible of $5000.00 had to be paid in advance. The story seems strange but that is what he said. A friend of mine a Mason(which I know very little about) heard the story and within 2 weeks the Shriners had paid his deductible. These are just three stories that I know of this year. kThey happen every day you may not know it but they do. Like I said I am sure that you can hear stories to the con.

What I do know is that under a country with socialized medicine you will not hear such stories. It may be hard to understand but believe me with government run healthcare there can be no charity. The government can not allow it. This is very difficult to explain but if you like you can send me your e-mail address and I will try to.

Is the US healthcare system perfect-certainly not. Does it need change- most definitely. But government run healthcare is most certainly not the answer. People come fron all over the world seeking treatment here because it is the best and they can buy it. If you put much stock in the Nobel prizes- three living american presidents have been awarded it for peace then you should know that aproxomately 83% of all Nobel prizes for medicine have been awarded to Americans- something like 46 out of 53 that have ever been awarded. Don't hold me to the exact numbers since these the best I can remember. Around 90% of all new drugs are developed by US pharmacudical companies. There is a reason for that.

A friend of mine always says "nothing is all good- nothing is all bad" and he is so right. That goes for all professions too- doctors, lawyers,dentists, plumbers,teachers, ect. I have found most people to be hard working, honest, principled people who generally want to do the right thing. This is too long and I am sure I am boring you so stop I will.

Best to you. Find a way to help your neighbor and your rewards will be greater than his.

Sincerely

I happen to be a Mason and Shriner, and I put on to large charity a year.

This is not socialized medicine...it is mandatory insurance.

dnf777
04-28-2010, 07:32 PM
I happen to be a Mason and Shriner, and I put on to large charity a year.

This is not socialized medicine...it is mandatory insurance.


Politics aside, thank you Sambo, for your giving of time and effort to better humanity. That goes to all others here with similar goals and efforts. (and not just those who drive funny little cars at parades!)

M&K's Retrievers
04-28-2010, 09:15 PM
This is not socialized medicine...it is mandatory insurance.

I know you have already punched out for the day, but it will become socialized medicine when the insurance carriers say "Bye, Bye".

YardleyLabs
04-28-2010, 09:39 PM
I know you have already punched out for the day, but it will become socialized medicine when the insurance carriers say "Bye, Bye".
To be a little more precise, at that point it would become socialized reimbursement administration, not socialized medicine. But, of course, that is what health insurance is anyway. More than 90% of the insured population of America benefit from socialized insurance now, whether benefits are paid primarily by the government or their employer. I don't see how adding the uninsured changes that at all.

Uncle Bill
04-28-2010, 10:13 PM
To be a little more precise, at that point it would become socialized reimbursement administration, not socialized medicine. But, of course, that is what health insurance is anyway. More than 90% of the insured population of America benefit from socialized insurance now, whether benefits are paid primarily by the government or their employer. I don't see how adding the uninsured changes that at all.

What part of that 'benny' program don't you understand? You believe the employer doesn't reduce the paycheck of that employee by the amount the 'company' is putting in the kitty? How does that come close to having the 'government' pick up the tab on folks that have never paid a dime into ANY program?

But then you wouldn't "see how adding the uninsured changes anything." And Hell or highwater wouldn't give you any clearer view. You do qualify as one of the fools enabling the move to socialism in this nation.

UB

M&K's Retrievers
04-28-2010, 11:17 PM
... More than 90% of the insured population of America benefit from socialized insurance now, whether benefits are paid primarily by the government or their employer. I don't see how adding the uninsured changes that at all.

You lost me there. If you have a moment, explain please.

dnf777
04-29-2010, 06:50 AM
But then you wouldn't "see how adding the uninsured changes anything." And Hell or highwater wouldn't give you any clearer view. You do qualify as one of the fools enabling the move to socialism in this nation.

UB

Your streak of name calling posts is rivaled only by the Pirates losing streak. Can you make a point, or disagree, without insults or name-calling? Here's a chance. Give it a try, it won't hurt!

Uncle Bill
04-29-2010, 12:12 PM
Your streak of name calling posts is rivaled only by the Pirates losing streak. Can you make a point, or disagree, without insults or name-calling? Here's a chance. Give it a try, it won't hurt!


So, the truth IS starting to hurt eh?

All you Obama lovers can't stand to be ridiculed, but you can lambast the hell out of those us conservatives look up to.

Bet you were the little boy that went running to the teacher to whine about the bad dudes that were calling you names. What a weenie.

When I was a kid, my parents taught me to believe that sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never harm me. Guess the libs can't relate to that.

UB

menmon
04-29-2010, 12:39 PM
So, the truth IS starting to hurt eh?

All you Obama lovers can't stand to be ridiculed, but you can lambast the hell out of those us conservatives look up to.

Bet you were the little boy that went running to the teacher to whine about the bad dudes that were calling you names. What a weenie.

When I was a kid, my parents taught me to believe that sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never harm me. Guess the libs can't relate to that.

UB

Problem is the rebublicans never speak the truth but believe their own lies

dnf777
04-29-2010, 01:22 PM
So, the truth IS starting to hurt eh?

All you Obama lovers can't stand to be ridiculed, but you can lambast the hell out of those us conservatives look up to.

Bet you were the little boy that went running to the teacher to whine about the bad dudes that were calling you names. What a weenie.

When I was a kid, my parents taught me to believe that sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never harm me. Guess the libs can't relate to that.

UB

Bill,
I've outgrown the name calling. You haven't. FYI, since you called me a weenie (laughing at that one!) I'll tell you when I was in grade school, I was the one sitting in the principal's office for splitting the lip of guys like you who called me a weenie!! Like I said, some of us have outgrown that behavior, and can have a discussion like adults now.

Have a nice weekend, and thanks for proving my point about you!

Keepin' the streak alive regards,
dave

depittydawg
04-29-2010, 05:28 PM
When I was a kid, my parents taught me to believe that sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never harm me. Guess the libs can't relate to that.

UB

Funny thing is words can hurt you. Especially if you call the wrong guy a weanie. Now if you would have called him a 'girly man'. That would have probably been ok.

Uncle Bill
04-29-2010, 06:16 PM
Man-OH-Man, as Elvis would say, I have now been properly admonished, chastized, and thrashed...oh, and also threatened. (how big a boy are you Doc??? I may have to head to Pennsyvania and put some whoop-azz on you. My question is, will I need to bring a lunch?) (thanks to Tulsa's own Roy "damn" Mercer. He said I'd use it some day)

Must be so enjoyable to be able to indulge in all that haughty arrogance...makes you feel like John Kerry, w/o the money of course.;-)

But you are developing a following of admirers, so that's gotta make you feel real good...sorta like being an Obama, w/o the power of course.:rolleyes:

But hang in there. Obama is working hard to put you on the payroll. Hope you get a position, and not JUST a job.

UB

dnf777
04-29-2010, 06:25 PM
Man-OH-Man, as Elvis would say, I have now been properly admonished, chastized, and thrashed...oh, and also threatened. (how big a boy are you Doc??? I may have to head to Pennsyvania and put some whoop-azz on you. My question is, will I need to bring a lunch?) (thanks to Tulsa's own Roy "damn" Mercer. He said I'd use it some day)


ROTFLMAO!!!

You gotta be kidding me??

Back to the ignore list for you, big boy! :D

BonMallari
04-29-2010, 06:30 PM
Problem is the rebublicans never speak the truth but believe their own lies

VERY broad brush you're painting with....political parties arent the liars, its the politicians in the political parties that lie...big difference, and all political parties are infested with the disease

and its R-E -P NOT R-E-B :razz:

Gerry Clinchy
04-30-2010, 10:37 AM
Simple really. Private sector insurance is not socialism but the end result of obamacare will be. Many individuals and employers will not buy insurance but pay the fine until diagnosed with something. At that time they will purchase insurance that will cover their pre-existing condition, get the problem fixed then drop the coverage and start paying the fine again. Insurance companies, without the protection of underwriting or pre-existing limitations will go broke or stop writing health insurance resulting in the single payor system which is what obama and the Dems wanted all along. I suspect that under obamacare the number of uninsureds will increase as people scam the system. Trust me, your not going to like it.

In line with this ... the whole point of having insurance is to protect against a future, perceived risk. If the "risk" is removed, i.e. no exclusion of pre-existing conditions, then why purchase insurance? The only reason to do so would be if the penalty for NOT having insurance exceeds the cost of HAVING insurance. At the point where those two are equal, then it is better to pay & get something, rather than pay a tax that gets you nothing.

For the Medicare prescription program, if you do not establish a program as soon as you turn 65 (you have a window of 6 mos), you must wait until the following year to purchase coverage & your premiums are higher than they would have been if you had joined at 65. Presumably, this is because the actuarial probability is that later in life is when you will use more meds; and, therefore, be more costly to the system.

I have heard no one mention such a "penalty" involved with deferring purchase of insurance with the new planned proposal. Thus, it would be perfectly legal for an individual to "scam" as M&K theorizes.

As private insurors are compelled to raise rates, if they can't make a profit, they will have to limit their business activities to those areas of insurance where they can make a profit. Gradually, it would appear, this would lead to a single-payer (govt being the insuror) system. They've done so well with Medicare, I'm sure they will do equally well with universal coverage.

Ultimately, if the primary way of reducing costs is to offer lower payment to providers, would that not ultimately lead to govt needing to take over the provider entities as well? Welcome to the UK! When the govt realizes that the best medical care for all is not possible (as in the UK), they will have no option but to "cut costs" the way the UK has, i.e. determine which patients get care based on their likely outcome when given care.

M&K's Retrievers
04-30-2010, 09:43 PM
.



....I have heard no one mention such a "penalty" involved with deferring purchase of insurance with the new planned proposal. Thus, it would be perfectly legal for an individual to "scam" as M&K theorizes......





I have already had many clients (mainly individuals but a few groups) question the logic of keeping their insurance in force. The penality I've heard is $750 for aan individual and $2000 per employee for an employer. In eithor case, the fine is much less than the premium.