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ducknwork
04-10-2010, 01:52 PM
This is led by students, not by any authority figure. The govt is NOT forcing religion upon anyone here...How can those who don't approve of school prayer shove their beliefs down the majority's throat? After all, that's what they claim that those in favor are always doing to them. Once again, someone in the minority is seeking to take away the freedom of religion from those they disagree with. I would love to see this turn out differently than it has so many times before...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/05/indiana-school-fighting-school-prayer/

Franco
04-10-2010, 05:38 PM
I agree with the school's Valedictorian, it doesn't belong in a public school. If the kids want to pray, let them go to a private school that supports it or take the prayer to a private meeting room. But, to subject all in attendence at a public school to prayer is unAmerican.

Shall we get into another discussion of which religion our Founding Fathers believed in?

Buzz
04-10-2010, 05:54 PM
Shall we get into another discussion of which religion our Founding Fathers believed in?


You must have missed Glenn Beck the other night. He spent an entire hour making the case that the founders were profoundly religious.

My parents wanted us to pray at school, so they sent us to catholic school. We prayed at the start of every class, before lunch, we went to mass during school, we prayed in the locker room, sporting events started with the national anthem and a prayer. And anything we learned about religion was what our parents wanted us learning, not what someone of some other christian faith wanted to ram down our throats.

Franco
04-10-2010, 06:04 PM
Isn't Glenn Beck a comedian, no different than Bill Mahr?

It is not fair or right to subject the students, faculty and those in the audience to any religious display in a public setting that they do not wish to be a part of.

Franco
04-10-2010, 06:16 PM
This is led by students, not by any authority figure. The govt is NOT forcing religion upon anyone here...

Not the govt forcing religion but, the principle of the school.

How can those who don't approve of school prayer shove their beliefs down the majority's throat?

Because, it is the law of the land.

After all, that's what they claim that those in favor are always doing to them. Once again, someone in the minority is seeking to take away the freedom of religion from those they disagree with.

Nope, just wanting thier rights protected.

I would love to see this turn out differently than it has so many times before...

Should your religious sect be cutting off thier heads for not practicing your religion?

There are places of all who wish to observe and practice thier religion, a public school is not one of those places!

[/quote]

Buzz
04-10-2010, 06:31 PM
Franco, I assumed that those here who are familiar with my views would know that my statement about Beck was a sarcastic one.;)

Marvin S
04-10-2010, 07:28 PM
But, to subject all in attendence at a public school to prayer is unAmerican.

For a guy who peddles advertising for a gig, your willingness to accept censorship of any kind is ?????????????


This is led by students, not by any authority figure. The govt is NOT forcing religion upon anyone here...

Not the govt forcing religion but, the principle of the school.


Did you mean "principal"?


How can those who don't approve of school prayer shove their beliefs down the majority's throat?

Because, it is the law of the land.

???????????????????


After all, that's what they claim that those in favor are always doing to them. Once again, someone in the minority is seeking to take away the freedom of religion from those they disagree with.

Nope, just wanting thier rights protected.

?????????????????????????


I would love to see this turn out differently than it has so many times before...

There are places of all who wish to observe and practice thier religion, a public school is not one of those places!



I have to respectfully disagree with you. Recognize I have never read the bible nor am I a member of any church, but I believe the right of majority rule trumps all.

The ????????????????? are, I just do not understand your logic :o.

Buzz
04-10-2010, 08:13 PM
I have to respectfully disagree with you. Recognize I have never read the bible nor am I a member of any church, but I believe the right of majority rule trumps all.



Marv, I'm curious if majority rule means 51 or 60 votes?

Steve Hester
04-10-2010, 09:13 PM
Marv, I'm curious if majority rule means 51 or 60 votes?

Depends on if Obama, Pelosi and Reid want to ram something down our throats or not.

Steve Hester
04-10-2010, 09:21 PM
[quote=Franco;597332]I agree with the school's Valedictorian, it doesn't belong in a public school. If the kids want to pray, let them go to a private school that supports it or take the prayer to a private meeting room. But, to subject all in attendence at a public school to prayer is unAmerican.

NO, what's un-American is allowing the vocal minority to have their way, just because they are willing to speak the loudest.

Steve Hester
04-10-2010, 09:24 PM
[quote=Franco;597338]This is led by students, not by any authority figure. The govt is NOT forcing religion upon anyone here...

How can those who don't approve of school prayer shove their beliefs down the majority's throat?

Because, it is the law of the land.

]

It obviously reamains very debateable whether it's the "law of the land" or not.

Franco
04-10-2010, 09:50 PM
For a guy who peddles advertising for a gig, your willingness to accept censorship of any kind is ?????????????



Did you mean "principal"?



???????????????????



?????????????????????????



I have to respectfully disagree with you. Recognize I have never read the bible nor am I a member of any church, but I believe the right of majority rule trumps all.

The ????????????????? are, I just do not understand your logic :o.

The FCC has all types of Censorship rules, I have no problem with most of them but, we abide by all of them. I for one do not think people can say or use any words they wish on the public airwaves. In fact, I managed the first radio station in America to not renew our affiliation with Howard Stern many years ago and actually do much better both financially and ratings wise without him.

As far as the law of the land, we've had enough court rulings supporting the nondisplay of religious symbols or speach in public places. The unlawful display of the Ten Commandments in an Alabama court house was probabaly one of the more high-profile cases.

If majority rule was the law, then mob lynchings would be legal. The majority can not infringe on the rights of an individual.

Yes, principal.

Franco
04-10-2010, 10:03 PM
NO, what's un-American is allowing the vocal minority to have their way, just because they are willing to speak the loudest.



It may be a minority in the southeast. But, I don't think it is the minority nationally. I think the majority of Americans object to public display/prayer. Afterall, look who is sitting in the White House.

Marvin S
04-10-2010, 10:21 PM
Marv, I'm curious if majority rule means 51 or 60 votes?

:) :) I think you knew what was meant! TBS, I consider a majority as something that does not change with each moon cycle which is going to happen regarding your reference. I believe the majority of the population in this country to be Christian, with most being able to practice as they see fit. I also believe that to be a good thing as long as the zealotry is left out. The discussion of religion on this forum is one thing I could do without, mainly because I do not believe it to be done intelligently.

I see the issue in this case as censorship, which is practiced all to often in the attempt to stifle dissent. We no longer see the Marlboro Man. I wonder what product line would affect Franco's revenue the most, then he might see things in a different light, I believe him to be a little narrow minded regarding this point.

ducknwork
04-10-2010, 11:14 PM
The majority can not infringe on the rights of an individual.

But the minority can infringe on the rights of the majority?

BTW, which right of those who don't wish to hear the prayer is being infringed upon? Last time I checked, we don't have the right to not be offended...BUT, you do have the right to stick your fingers in your ears!;)

ducknwork
04-10-2010, 11:19 PM
This is led by students, not by any authority figure. The govt is NOT forcing religion upon anyone here...

Not the govt forcing religion but, the principle of the school.

Forcing? Really? How can it be forced if those who are affected are voting on it? See, there is a distinct difference between allowing something and forcing, or even promoting something. Allowing prayer is not unlawful. Forcing or promoting religion is unlawful. Not allowing religion is unlawful. Not forcing or promoting religion is lawful. Get it?

How can those who don't approve of school prayer shove their beliefs down the majority's throat?

Because, it is the law of the land.

What does the law say?

After all, that's what they claim that those in favor are always doing to them. Once again, someone in the minority is seeking to take away the freedom of religion from those they disagree with.

Nope, just wanting thier rights protected.

As do those who would like to say a prayer.

I would love to see this turn out differently than it has so many times before...

Should your religious sect be cutting off thier heads for not practicing your religion?

WTF?:confused:

There are places of all who wish to observe and practice thier religion, a public school is not one of those places!


--------------------

Cody Covey
04-10-2010, 11:33 PM
Freedom of religion does not mean banned religion it simply means that the government will not establish a religion....or non religion. Here is a case where the athiests are being held higher than those wanting the prayer. The athiests do not have to participate and the ones that want to can. That is freedom.

dnf777
04-11-2010, 08:12 AM
This has been hashed over ad nauseaum here before, and suspect the positions and opinions are the same, so I'm gonna go run some doubles in the once-again-green pasture.

When you guys and gals all agree on this subject, let me know, and I'll buy in!:D

YardleyLabs
04-11-2010, 08:17 AM
The majority, if powerful and determined enough, can amend the Constitution. They can outlaw guns, or allow governmental institutions to conduct group prayer sessions However, based on the Constitution and related Court rulings, prayer conducted under the auspices of a public school is illegal. Personally, I am glad it is.

JJaxon
04-11-2010, 09:07 AM
I agree with the school's Valedictorian, it doesn't belong in a public school. If the kids want to pray, let them go to a private school that supports it or take the prayer to a private meeting room. But, to subject all in attendence at a public school to prayer is unAmerican.

Shall we get into another discussion of which religion our Founding Fathers believed in?

Bold added by me. I'd be all for that if I could take all the tax $$ I give to the public school system and put into the private school of my choice. Let the "Don't offend me by praying in my presence" pay for the teachers, buses, maintenance, athletic fields, administration buildings and occupants, and any other incidentals that go along with it. Can you afford that? I wish you could so that I don't force upon those who oppose prayer in public school, the use of my earnings. My taxes should go where I want them not where the minority wants them. Is that a different thread?

dnf777
04-11-2010, 10:24 AM
My taxes should go where I want them not where the minority wants them. Is that a different thread?

Doesn't everyone want that? Some things, including education of the citizenry, is deemed "good for the whole", and therefore we all pay for it. Even those who have no kids, or kids all grown.
How do you think a blind man feels knowing that some of his tax dollars are allocated to the highway fund? The highway system is viewed as a commerce tool, and as such , we all benefit from it, whether we drive or not.

As imperfect as it is, our public education system has helped us rise in the world. Many talented young people have used public education as a launch pad for remarkable careers. Not all of them could have afforded private education, myself included.

As for praying....well, I never solved integrals or derivatives in church, so I never thought it would be fair to pray in school. When I was struggling through exams, nothing ever stopped my from praying my brains out, silently, to myself. Much of what is called "public prayer" is more about promoting religion, than a true discourse with God, from what I've seen and heard.

Uncle Bill
04-11-2010, 05:53 PM
Shall we get into another discussion of which religion our Founding Fathers believed in?




And your knowledge of this would be based on what? Please don't further your ignorance of history with another lame slam at Christianity with your limited assuredness about the founders.

You really should brush up on your U.S. history before attempting to debate it with others that just may have some knowledge in that field.

Let me suggest as an EZ primer:
a copy of Brion McClanahan's, The Politically Incorrect Guide™ to the Founding Fathers (http://content.eaglepub.com/?Jdtg4OCZTvaQNHqpKaCj6CgdauWsANgFJ&https://members.humaneventsonline.com/order.php?offer=1839). You might find it informative, as well as entertaining.

UB

Franco
04-11-2010, 06:53 PM
Let me suggest as an EZ primer:
a copy of Brion McClanahan's, The Politically Incorrect Guide™ to the Founding Fathers (http://content.eaglepub.com/?Jdtg4OCZTvaQNHqpKaCj6CgdauWsANgFJ&https://members.humaneventsonline.com/order.php?offer=1839). You might find it informative, as well as entertaining.

UB

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Original news, breaking stories and conservative commentary from Ann Coulter, Newt Gingrich, Pat Buchanan, Chuck Norris, and many more.
Plus, a set of Ginzu kitchen knives.

Revisonist history at its worse!

If you want to know what Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Paine belived in, I suggest you read what they wrote and not what others wish they would have said. You may want to start with Thomas Paine's "The Age Of Reason".

Just remember that when these men refer to God, they are not refering to the Christian God but the Deist God or the god of nature. These men, the most influential in our founding did NOT believe in Jesus' devinity!