PDA

View Full Version : Hurray for Arizona!!!



labdoc
04-23-2010, 04:24 PM
After last week mandating Obama to prove his true citizenship before being allowed on the ballot, today they made it a crime to be in this country illegally. It's about time the states started standing up to our federal gubermunt. Can anyone who lives there give me some other reasons to think about relocating?

dback
04-23-2010, 05:15 PM
After last week mandating Obama to prove his true citizenship before being allowed on the ballot, today they made it a crime to be in this country illegally. It's about time the states started standing up to our federal gubermunt. Can anyone who lives there give me some other reasons to think about relocating?

We have had the world record bull elk for a number of years up until last year (I believe) when the 'spider bull' was taken in Utah. Good luck getting drawn though!

Franco
04-23-2010, 06:59 PM
I salute Arizona for having the guts to do what they had to do. Other states should pass similar laws and stand with them in solidarity!

freefall319
04-23-2010, 07:41 PM
I agree, my hat's off to AZ for stepping up and getting it done. That will never happen here in the "Hippie State."

gmhr1
04-24-2010, 10:43 AM
Its a start in the right direction we have a long way to go. Our budget is a mess if prop 100 doesnt pass things will get really bad up to 4500 teachers in Maricopa county alone face layoffs, our state and city workers are taking a pay cut and furloughs, and it gets really HOT in the summer! But its a good start to hopefully getting our State back on its feet

BonMallari
04-24-2010, 11:13 AM
Here's to hoping that you retire McCain and get a real conservative US Senator, JD Hayworth representing your state

M&K's Retrievers
04-24-2010, 12:50 PM
I hope Texas follows suit. On a recent driving trip to the Big Bend and Valley areas of Texas, I was pleasently suprised at the number of Custom/Immigration officers, equipment, horses and roadblocks we encountered along the way. Every fence line had been drug smooth so foot prints could be seen. All of this was noticable from the highway. There's no telling what the activity was that we couldn't see. This stuff was going on as much as 100 miles from the border.

Blackstone
04-25-2010, 12:49 PM
Reminds me of movies I've seen of Nazi era Germany . . . . "Show me your papers!" :mad: Fascism lives!!!

Gerry Clinchy
04-25-2010, 05:52 PM
Aren't non-residents abroad required to carry their visas/passports with them.

If I'm in France and I approach a policeman; and he can tell that my French is poor or non-existant, wouldn't it be okay to ask to see my passport?

Will Arizona cops really have that much time to just go looking for illegals unless it's part of investigating some kind of crime? AZ has the same budgetary problems as several other states, so they really don't have the $ to hire extra policemen just to do this extra work.

YardleyLabs
04-25-2010, 06:04 PM
Aren't non-residents abroad required to carry their visas/passports with them.

If I'm in France and I approach a policeman; and he can tell that my French is poor or non-existant, wouldn't it be okay to ask to see my passport?

Will Arizona cops really have that much time to just go looking for illegals unless it's part of investigating some kind of crime? AZ has the same budgetary problems as several other states, so they really don't have the $ to hire extra policemen just to do this extra work.
No, you are not required to do so and if a gendarme asked to see your passport it would be extraordinary. They don't even ask when you cross the border. During seven years living in Switzerland and Italy, I virtually never carried a passport and never presented it except when crossing a border, boarding an airplane, checking into a hotel, or cashing a traveler's check. At no time was I ever asked to present proof of citizenship or legal residency by a police officer despite being stopped by police officers a few times concerning infractions.

BonMallari
04-25-2010, 06:25 PM
I used to get stopped at the border checkpoint in El Paso Tx, and one morning the officer asked for the location of my birthplace....I calmly answered Heidelberg Germany..he looked confused, (probably since I am asian)...and then said " Army brat ", get the hell out of here:p

ducknwork
04-26-2010, 06:29 AM
No, you are not required to do so and if a gendarme asked to see your passport it would be extraordinary. They don't even ask when you cross the border. During seven years living in Switzerland and Italy, I virtually never carried a passport and never presented it except when crossing a border, boarding an airplane, checking into a hotel, or cashing a traveler's check. At no time was I ever asked to present proof of citizenship or legal residency by a police officer despite being stopped by police officers a few times concerning infractions.

I doubt that Switzerland and Italy have much trouble with Americans moving there illegally and taking jobs away from the natives, while not paying taxes and dealing drugs/committing other various crimes. If they did, I am sure that you would have been more likely to be asked to produce your passport.

Steve Hester
04-26-2010, 07:21 AM
Reminds me of movies I've seen of Nazi era Germany . . . . "Show me your papers!" :mad: Fascism lives!!!

What a stupid statement.........:rolleyes:

badbullgator
04-26-2010, 08:00 AM
I wish Florida would do the same thing

YardleyLabs
04-26-2010, 08:18 AM
I doubt that Switzerland and Italy have much trouble with Americans moving there illegally and taking jobs away from the natives, while not paying taxes and dealing drugs/committing other various crimes. If they did, I am sure that you would have been more likely to be asked to produce your passport.
Italy does not have a large immigrant population. It's citizens are more likely to go to other countries, such as Switzerland, for jobs. Switzerland has a huge immigrant population -- much bigger than ours as a percentage of the total. Many of those are well to do, but even more are poorly educated immigrants from poorer countries who fill more menial jobs that the Swiss do not want. There has been some cultural backlash from the "hinterlands" of Switzerland, as evidenced by a recent referendum to outlaw new construction of minarets. However, in the more cosmopolitan cities such as Geneva, the immigrant population approaches 25-30% of the total population and is very welcome. Swiss laws on citizenship make it almost impossible to become a citizen if you are not born there, but many immigrants live there for their whole lives, working and paying taxes. In that sense they are much like the majority of our own immigrants.

Jim Danis
04-26-2010, 08:42 AM
It would be nice if both Texas and New Mexico both passed the same type law. There's no way Cali would unfortunately. They don't have the guts to do it. Now let's hope Arizona enforces it and backs the Administration into a corner to do the same thing and enforce existing immigration laws.

Gerry Clinchy
04-26-2010, 09:35 AM
Italy does not have a large immigrant population. It's citizens are more likely to go to other countries, such as Switzerland, for jobs. Switzerland has a huge immigrant population -- much bigger than ours as a percentage of the total. Many of those are well to do, but even more are poorly educated immigrants from poorer countries who fill more menial jobs that the Swiss do not want. There has been some cultural backlash from the "hinterlands" of Switzerland, as evidenced by a recent referendum to outlaw new construction of minarets. However, in the more cosmopolitan cities such as Geneva, the immigrant population approaches 25-30% of the total population and is very welcome. Swiss laws on citizenship make it almost impossible to become a citizen if you are not born there, but many immigrants live there for their whole lives, working and paying taxes. In that sense they are much like the majority of our own immigrants.

The issue here on this thread would be "illegal" immigrants.


I doubt that Switzerland and Italy have much trouble with Americans moving there illegally and taking jobs away from the natives, while not paying taxes and dealing drugs/committing other

In this post, the immigrants referred to was specifically "American".

Doc E
04-26-2010, 09:41 AM
You folks in the "border states" certainly have it a lot worse than we do up here, but we "got stuff" too.

http://fwix.com/spokane/share/b80a1b3a49/man_murdered_in_front_of_children_suspect_at_large



.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 09:47 AM
I doubt that Switzerland and Italy have much trouble with Americans moving there illegally and taking jobs away from the natives, while not paying taxes and dealing drugs/committing other various crimes. If they did, I am sure that you would have been more likely to be asked to produce your passport.

The solution to illegals coming in and taking jobs is pretty simple. Start fining companies for hiring them. The jobs will dry up. And they will go home.

huntinman
04-26-2010, 09:49 AM
The solution to illegals coming in and taking jobs is pretty simple. Start fining companies for hiring them. The jobs will dry up. And they will go home.

do that and enforce our laws that already stand.

dback
04-26-2010, 10:34 AM
The solution to illegals coming in and taking jobs is pretty simple. Start fining companies for hiring them. The jobs will dry up. And they will go home.

Everyone outside of Oregon knows that law already exists and is enforced in Arizona :rolleyes:

Geez....now I know how HEW feels discussing football with me!

ducknwork
04-26-2010, 10:54 AM
The solution to illegals coming in and taking jobs is pretty simple. Start fining companies for hiring them. The jobs will dry up. And they will go home.

Ok, then they won't have jobs. Great idea.

So what is the fix for illegals not paying taxes, leeching off the govt, and running gangs, selling drugs, murdering, stealing etc etc? Is that pretty simple as well?

YardleyLabs
04-26-2010, 11:01 AM
Everyone outside of Oregon knows that law already exists and is enforced in Arizona :rolleyes:

Geez....now I know how HEW feels discussing football with me!
As becomes rapidly apparent, several industries are completely dependent on illegal immigrants for their staffing: agriculture, landscaping, construction, meat packing, hotel and food services, poultry production, etc., are all industries that rely heavily on illegal labor. With a few PR exceptions, enforcement is largely ignored. I actually believe that States should be permitted to bolster workplace enforcement of immigration laws since they are generally responsible for oversight of businesses and are directly affected by the costs associated with illegal immigration. If laws against employment of undocumented immigrants are enforced strictly, I believe two things will happen. The number of illegals will drop dramatically, and there will be immigration reform to prevent these industries from failing because of a lack of workers.

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 11:35 AM
Ok, then they won't have jobs. Great idea.

So what is the fix for illegals not paying taxes, leeching off the govt, and running gangs, selling drugs, murdering, stealing etc etc? Is that pretty simple as well?

I would argue that illegals do pay taxes. They pay SS taxes, income taxes, state income taxes. All under bogus SS #s. As such they will never receive any of the benefits of those taxes. Also, they pay sales taxes and any other tax we are subjected to. Just what taxes would you argue they don't pay?
Now if they are working under the table and getting paid cash by passing federal and state laws, then you have an employer who needs to be prosecuted.

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 11:57 AM
As becomes rapidly apparent, several industries are completely dependent on illegal immigrants for their staffing: agriculture, landscaping, construction, meat packing, hotel and food services, poultry production, etc., are all industries that rely heavily on illegal labor. With a few PR exceptions, enforcement is largely ignored. I actually believe that States should be permitted to bolster workplace enforcement of immigration laws since they are generally responsible for oversight of businesses and are directly affected by the costs associated with illegal immigration. If laws against employment of undocumented immigrants are enforced strictly, I believe two things will happen. The number of illegals will drop dramatically, and there will be immigration reform to prevent these industries from failing because of a lack of workers.

I don't have the details, but Oklahoma recently passed a law(s) that fines employers caught using illegals. It apparently has helped with the problem however they are still trying to figure out a way to pay the OU football players.:rolleyes:

dback
04-26-2010, 12:04 PM
As becomes rapidly apparent, several industries are completely dependent on illegal immigrants for their staffing: agriculture, landscaping, construction, meat packing, hotel and food services, poultry production, etc., are all industries that rely heavily on illegal labor. With a few PR exceptions, enforcement is largely ignored. I actually believe that States should be permitted to bolster workplace enforcement of immigration laws since they are generally responsible for oversight of businesses and are directly affected by the costs associated with illegal immigration. If laws against employment of undocumented immigrants are enforced strictly, I believe two things will happen. The number of illegals will drop dramatically, and there will be immigration reform to prevent these industries from failing because of a lack of workers.

Jeff....I work in agriculture and own an agriculture related business. I am the largest in this state in my field and service some of the largest farms in Arizona, California and New Mexico on a regular basis. The laws are not ignored in Arizona, the penalties are substantial. Every new hire MUST clear e-verify/Arizona new-hire or they are unemployable .... it IS enforced and you hire those individuals at great peril to yourself. Are there those that fall through the cracks...sure, but, the numbers decline on a weekly basis. I would disagree with your statement that the industries (with the exception of 'landscaping' [they are often paid cash]) are completely dependent on illegals. Staffing for many of your above mention industries are filled with H-2A workers. I can not speak to all parts of the country but that is how it works here. On a side note.....there are a number of illegals that were employed prior to the implementation of our current laws. Those illegals still retain their jobs due to restrictions on employers...'invasion of privacy' issues.

YardleyLabs
04-26-2010, 12:08 PM
Jeff....I work in agriculture and own an agriculture related business. I am the largest in this state in my field and service some of the largest farms in Arizona, California and New Mexico on a regular basis. The laws are not ignored in Arizona, the penalties are substantial. Every new hire MUST clear e-verify/Arizona new-hire or they are unemployable .... it IS enforced and you hire those individuals at great peril to yourself. Are there those that fall through the cracks...sure, but, the numbers decline on a weekly basis. I would disagree with your statement that the industries (with the exception of 'landscaping' [they are often paid cash]) are completely dependent on illegals. Staffing for many of your above mention industries are filled with H-2A workers. I can not speak to all parts of the country but that is how it works here. On a side note.....there are a number of illegals that were employed prior to the implementation of our current laws. Those illegals still retain their jobs due to restrictions on employers...'invasion of privacy' issues.
I believe that Arizona is actually the exception and there was some controversy surrounding implementation of its crackdown. How strictly are those same laws enforced in California, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, etc.?

dnf777
04-26-2010, 12:13 PM
I believe that Arizona is actually the exception and there was some controversy surrounding implementation of its crackdown. How strictly are those same laws enforced in California, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, etc.?

My year spent in New Orleans (Harahan, to be more exact) immediately after Katrina, saw crowds of 20 or 30 young, and not so young Hispanic laborers loitering in the parking lots of Home Depot's, Lowes, Sherwin Williams, lumber yards, etc...

I used to bicycle and jog along the River on the levy, and would see barges in for repairs daily at the shipyards. Never saw one person checking the throngs of people coming off those barges and boats. I doubt Louisiana cares much to enforce the laws, given the tremendous amount of work to be done.

For me, it gave me a nice break from crawfish and boiled shrimp to eat from the Mexican chuck-wagons that would somehow show up in vacant lots near the home depot. Never even got sick once! :D

dback
04-26-2010, 12:23 PM
I believe that Arizona is actually the exception and there was some controversy surrounding implementation of its crackdown. SOME??? The 'protestors' had to be bussed back from California to participate in the current round of protests threatening not to do business here. :rolleyes: How strictly are those same laws enforced in California, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, etc.? California is THE socialist state and I could not address Texas, Louisiana etc....

.....................

M&K's Retrievers
04-26-2010, 12:56 PM
How strictly are those same laws enforced in California, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, etc.?

Check out post #7 for some a little input on Texas.

YardleyLabs
04-26-2010, 01:03 PM
Check out post #7 for some a little input on Texas.
I think the distinction is border enforcement, which will continue to fail miserably, versus employment enforcement, which is politically less popular but much more effective. Illegal immigrants are coming for jobs. If they can't get them, they don't come. If you want to find the true culprits in the battle over illegal immigration, look to those who hire undocumented laborers.

Terry Britton
04-26-2010, 01:06 PM
I can not speak to all parts of the country but that is how it works here. On a side note.....there are a number of illegals that were employed prior to the implementation of our current laws. Those illegals still retain their jobs due to restrictions on employers...'invasion of privacy' issues.

I recently learned in a legal business class that illegals can hold employers liable for discrimination law suits. It can be a real mess if they show false paper work and you don't hire them, or if you know you got them and try to get rid of them.

badbullgator
04-26-2010, 01:06 PM
Italy does not have a large immigrant population. It's citizens are more likely to go to other countries, such as Switzerland, for jobs. Switzerland has a huge immigrant population -- much bigger than ours as a percentage of the total. Many of those are well to do, but even more are poorly educated immigrants from poorer countries who fill more menial jobs that the Swiss do not want. There has been some cultural backlash from the "hinterlands" of Switzerland, as evidenced by a recent referendum to outlaw new construction of minarets. However, in the more cosmopolitan cities such as Geneva, the immigrant population approaches 25-30% of the total population and is very welcome. Swiss laws on citizenship make it almost impossible to become a citizen if you are not born there, but many immigrants live there for their whole lives, working and paying taxes. In that sense they are much like the majority of our own immigrants.


Ah Jeff….I would have to wonder how tough their laws are regarding allowing someone into the country to work that is not a citizen. I gave the example before of a friend of mine who when to work in Sweden doing a very technical job that few in the world are capable of doing. She had to apply to the company and for a visa. After the company accepted her she had to wait for some time (I don’t remember but 6-7 months) to make sure no legal citizen wanted the job. She also had to learn Swedish within 6 months of taking the job. Each year she had to reapply for her visa to assure that she was not taking a job that a citizen wanted. Eventually after 2 or 3 years her visa was not renewed because someone from Sweden had applied for the job. The person was much less qualified for the job but that was her tough luck. We don’t exactly do that here. No they use false SSN's and lie.....
Now as to the other post about them paying taxes using a fake SSN. That is ILLEGAL and once again shows they are law breakers and have no business in our country. You seem to think it is ok for them to break the law and come here in the first place and then it is even more alright to break more laws by using false information to steal jobs…but that is OK because they pay taxes….screwed up logic right there. Of course I am guessing in Oregon you must not have a lot of agriculture or construction and have never seen a pay van handing out the cash at days end or on Friday. Sure do see it a lot here (or use to before the economy dried up).

YardleyLabs
04-26-2010, 01:24 PM
Ah Jeff….I would have to wonder how tough their laws are regarding allowing someone into the country to work that is not a citizen. I gave the example before of a friend of mine who when to work in Sweden doing a very technical job that few in the world are capable of doing. She had to apply to the company and for a visa. After the company accepted her she had to wait for some time (I don’t remember but 6-7 months) to make sure no legal citizen wanted the job. She also had to learn Swedish within 6 months of taking the job. Each year she had to reapply for her visa to assure that she was not taking a job that a citizen wanted. Eventually after 2 or 3 years her visa was not renewed because someone from Sweden had applied for the job. The person was much less qualified for the job but that was her tough luck. We don’t exactly do that here. No they use false SSN's and lie.....
Now as to the other post about them paying taxes using a fake SSN. That is ILLEGAL and once again shows they are law breakers and have no business in our country. You seem to think it is ok for them to break the law and come here in the first place and then it is even more alright to break more laws by using false information to steal jobs…but that is OK because they pay taxes….screwed up logic right there. Of course I am guessing in Oregon you must not have a lot of agriculture or construction and have never seen a pay van handing out the cash at days end or on Friday. Sure do see it a lot here (or use to before the economy dried up).
Switzerland is actually very picky about immigration. However, for menial jobs they assume as a given that no citizen wants the work. The US is actually one of the pickier countries about issuing work visas, but one of the more open about allowing immigrants to become citizens. My father worked for 28 years in Italy, Switzerland and Taiwan. He had to reapply continuously for work visas, but was never questioned as long as he had a job that was considered economically beneficial to the country and as long as he paid his taxes. He would never have been permitted to apply for citizenship in any of those countries although he spoke all of their languages. In America, until the last round of reforms in the 90's, he would have been forced to leave the country after six years or to apply for permanent residency. If he became a permanent resident, the road to citizenship is easy. I am not aware of other countries that make either permanent residency or citizenship so easy. BTW, my parents did have a child born in Switzerland who would have been eligible for Swiss citizenship by right of birth (unfortunately she died), as is the case here.

ducknwork
04-26-2010, 04:25 PM
I would argue that illegals do pay taxes. They pay SS taxes, income taxes, state income taxes. All under bogus SS #s. As such they will never receive any of the benefits of those taxes. Also, they pay sales taxes and any other tax we are subjected to. Just what taxes would you argue they don't pay?
Now if they are working under the table and getting paid cash by passing federal and state laws, then you have an employer who needs to be prosecuted.

I find it interesting that you didn't dispute any other thing in the post. Yet you are still OK with having millions of illegals in this country. Why does this not bother you?

badbullgator
04-26-2010, 04:33 PM
This is what my area thinks about it

NBC2 Poll



How do you feel about Arizona's new immigration law?

Fair
Unfair
No opinion
Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far:
Fairhttp://WBBH.images.worldnow.com/images/static/container-e/spacer.gif71%Unfairhttp://WBBH.images.worldnow.com/images/static/container-e/spacer.gif25%No Opinion 4%

dback
04-26-2010, 04:56 PM
This is what my area thinks about it

NBC2 Poll



How do you feel about Arizona's new immigration law?

Fair
Unfair
No opinion
Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far:
Fairhttp://WBBH.images.worldnow.com/images/static/container-e/spacer.gif71%Unfairhttp://WBBH.images.worldnow.com/images/static/container-e/spacer.gif25%No Opinion 4%

A poll here shows (Rassmussen I believe) 71% in favor including 51% of Dems

depittydawg
04-26-2010, 05:03 PM
I find it interesting that you didn't dispute any other thing in the post. Yet you are still OK with having millions of illegals in this country. Why does this not bother you?

It does bother me. But I see the solution entirely different. Why are illegals crossing the border into the US? Simple ---- JOBS. We need to be going after employers like Walmart, Haliburton, the huge packing houses, corporate farms etc. etc. that provide the incentive for people to cross into our country.
Let the CEO of Walmart spend a few months in jail for hiring illegals. Fine them a 100 million or so. You think they will start doing background checks on potential hires? I think the message would be pretty clear. Take away the jobs, and they go back home.
There is another aspect which needs to be addressed which is also getting completely ignored. I suspect that at the root of this issue is the US trade policies. How come nobody is talking about repealing NAFTA and CAFTA? That's where I would start.

badbullgator
04-26-2010, 07:32 PM
Not so sure Wal Mart has that many illegals (of course false documents and all who knows) but after they were fined 11M in 2005 for hiring them they have tried as well as any corp that size can to stay away.
Jobs is exactly the reason we need tighter immigration control. OUr UE is at what 10% and in many places if Florida 15-17%. there are no jobs that need filled by illegals

YardleyLabs
04-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Not so sure Wal Mart has that many illegals (of course false documents and all who knows) but after they were fined 11M in 2005 for hiring them they have tried as well as any corp that size can to stay away.
Jobs is exactly the reason we need tighter immigration control. OUr UE is at what 10% and in many places if Florida 15-17%. there are no jobs that need filled by illegals
Walmart's historic pattern has been to outsource certain classes of jobs, such as cleaning crews, to contractors that are staffed primarily by illegals (see http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/18/national/main681593.shtml). It paid some substantial fines. Whether that changed its behavior is another question.

dnf777
04-26-2010, 08:43 PM
Not so sure Wal Mart has that many illegals (of course false documents and all who knows) but after they were fined 11M in 2005 for hiring them they have tried as well as any corp that size can to stay away.
Jobs is exactly the reason we need tighter immigration control. OUr UE is at what 10% and in many places if Florida 15-17%. there are no jobs that need filled by illegals

$11 million fine for Wal-Mart! Wow, that'll teach them! I'll bet they save that much every second of the year by contracting with companies using illegals, with plausible deniability! And if they don't, they could merely raise the price of a box of twinkies by 2 cents, and recoup that fine amount in one day in Pennsylvania alone!

I don't mean to walmart bash, but it sort of exemplifies the mamby-pamby stance the gov't has taken on illegal immigration enforcement.

dnf777
04-26-2010, 09:13 PM
I did not realize that the Arizona law makes it a misdemeanor crime not to carry immigration papers in your possession. I'm not sure exactly what that means. Do I need to have papers on my person to prove I'm not an Italian illegal immigrant? If not, which I suspect is the case, can a cop pull me off the street and demand to go to my home or wherever my birth certificate is, and see it? Also, the laws sponsor has a very dubious record, casting a little doubt on it's intentions. He seems to have several connections with white supremacy groups, all of which he pleads ignorance on. The bill also has provisions for compensation for lawyers involved in cases resulting from this law, at taxpayers expense.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/us/20immig.html

The Native Americans could have a ball with this on their reservations. Most of us probably look like illegal immigrants to the tribal police.

luvmylabs23139
04-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Perm. legal aliens are required by federal law to carry their card with them at all times.
That law has been around for more than forty years.

dback
04-26-2010, 09:52 PM
Perm. legal aliens are required by federal law to carry their card with them at all times.
That law has been around for more than forty years.

The authors of the bill were very careful to structure most of the content verbatim from Federal Statutes .... that doesn't stop the 'Chicken Littles' of the world.

Representative Kyrsten Sinema voted 'no' and plans to sue the state over portions of the bill. She has no problem with the intent of the bill only certain portions of it. One is the requirement to carry your 'Visa' which is not in the Federal Statutes....the requirement to carry the so called 'Green Card' is however a Fed and state requirement. Another problem is that a man (for example) here on a 'work visa' is allowed to bring his wife but the visa is issued in his name and he is required to have it in his possession (state and Fed requirement) leaving her with nothing to ID herself....complicating matters further, she may not even have the same last name. There will be 'bugs' to work out but even if Ms Sinema wins....only those portions found to be 'Unconstitutional' will be stricken.

Blackstone
04-27-2010, 02:32 AM
What a stupid statement.........:rolleyes:

Just because you don't like what it implies, it doesn't make it stupid or inaccurate. But, think what you like.

david gibson
04-27-2010, 07:36 AM
Originally Posted by Steve Hester View Post
What a stupid statement.........

Just because you don't like what it implies, it doesn't make it stupid or inaccurate. But, think what you like.

no, its pretty much a stupid and inaccurate statement. all you liberal chicken-littles are really comical.


now if we can just get rid of that really, really stupid "anchor baby" law

dnf777
04-27-2010, 07:37 AM
Perm. legal aliens are required by federal law to carry their card with them at all times.
That law has been around for more than forty years.

Jeez, if I had to carry a card on my person AT ALL TIMES, it would be green too!

Really though, I don't see how this law does much other than consolidate what's already on the books? The author's (sponsor) affilications make me wonder though, I admit.

badbullgator
04-27-2010, 08:28 AM
$11 million fine for Wal-Mart! Wow, that'll teach them! I'll bet they save that much every second of the year by contracting with companies using illegals, with plausible deniability! And if they don't, they could merely raise the price of a box of twinkies by 2 cents, and recoup that fine amount in one day in Pennsylvania alone!

I don't mean to walmart bash, but it sort of exemplifies the mamby-pamby stance the gov't has taken on illegal immigration enforcement.

I don't disagree that 11M to WM is like a nickle to you or I. I would love to see the fine mean something to the person or company that is being fined. What I was getting at is the posted I was responding to using WM as an example. I would think that with as many WM haters as there are out there, that if WM was widely using illegals it would be all over the place. My guess, and it is a pretty valid one in my area which is pretty heavy with illegals (FL), is that far more illegals are working farm and constrution jobs for cash than are working on or off the books at WM.

badbullgator
04-27-2010, 08:30 AM
Walmart's historic pattern has been to outsource certain classes of jobs, such as cleaning crews, to contractors that are staffed primarily by illegals (see http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/18/national/main681593.shtml). It paid some substantial fines. Whether that changed its behavior is another question.


2005 Jeff and that is what I was talking about. See the above post about WM haters.....find something more recent for me. I tried but did not and I am not a WM fan

luvmylabs23139
04-27-2010, 09:42 AM
Jeez, if I had to carry a card on my person AT ALL TIMES, it would be green too!

Really though, I don't see how this law does much other than consolidate what's already on the books? The author's (sponsor) affilications make me wonder though, I admit.

What's the big deal? I have a green card and yes my original one and the one I had to get when I turned 14 were actually green. I've had mine since 1967. The only times I have been asked for mine were at an airport when I was leaving the country. When I gave them my British passport flying out of the US I was asked for my greencard a few times with the comment that I needed to have it with me to come back. I'm sure the only reason they asked me for it, and it has only been in the past few years, was my American accent.
I've never been asked for it when applying for a job, but as I know the law I give it for an I-9 verification although I could in theory aviod any HR enforcement by producing my SS card and drivers license as my SS card was issued prior to the 1-9 stamp on the newer ones.
I can't tell you how many times I crossed the Canadian border handing over both my drivers license and green card and the only thing that was looked at returning to the US was my driver's license even though they should have been checking the green card rather than the driver's license.

When I use my passport to fly within the US nobody has ever asked for the green card.

dnf777
04-27-2010, 09:52 AM
What's the big deal? .

That is my point. You won't get an argument from me. I only see this bill as re-affiirming laws and customs that are already in place.

the only thing that raises my eyebrows is the history of the bill's sponsor. If you havne't done, its interesting reading.

luvmylabs23139
04-27-2010, 10:41 AM
That is my point. You won't get an argument from me. I only see this bill as re-affiirming laws and customs that are already in place.

the only thing that raises my eyebrows is the history of the bill's sponsor. If you havne't done, its interesting reading.

I've read about the bill's sponser but the majority of the people in Arizona want this law.
More than anything I think this is a way to tell the feds to enforce the laws on the books. The people in AZ and other border states are frustrated by the lack of border enforcement by the feds. Those of us in other states are not dealing with the extreme violence, large #'s of kids crossing the border everyday to go to American schools etc. We don't live it everyday!

M&K's Retrievers
04-28-2010, 09:49 AM
Representative Debbie Riddle of Tomball, TX will introduce legislation similar to Arizona's in the January session. Gov. Perry, who is up for reelection in November, to my knowledge has made no comment on the Arizona law. Part of me wishes he would call a special session to get it done now.

M&K's Retrievers
04-28-2010, 10:25 AM
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer's job approval rating jumped to 56% from 40% after signing the imigration bill. Probably temporary but quite a jump.

BonMallari
04-28-2010, 10:32 AM
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer's job approval rating jumped to 56% from 40% after signing the imigration bill. Probably temporary but quite a jump.

what is really ironic is her predecessor in office is none other than our current Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano who did little to nothing to secure the border in Arizona, but gets a position where securing the border is her NUMBER 1 concern :rolleyes:

depittydawg
04-28-2010, 10:34 AM
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer's job approval rating jumped to 56% from 40% after signing the imigration bill. Probably temporary but quite a jump.

That should satisfy the question on whether or not it was in large part a political move. Although, I will admit I've changed my position since listening to several posters here. The fact that the federal government has created and neglected to address this problem over the last 20 or 30 years has forced the hand of the states to try to deal with it.

ducknwork
04-28-2010, 10:55 AM
That should satisfy the question on whether or not it was in large part a political move. Although, I will admit I've changed my position since listening to several posters here. The fact that the federal government has created and neglected to address this problem over the last 20 or 30 years has forced the hand of the states to try to deal with it.


There is always the off chance that it was just the right thing to do (and what the people actually wanted)...ever consider that?