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duk4me
04-27-2010, 09:25 PM
I'm suprised that the oil spill in the Gulf hasn't been mentioned on POTUs.

What do you feel the long term effect will be considering off shore drilling, oil prices, and future exploration off the US coast.

I'm really looking more for what do you think the result will be of this catastrophe.

depittydawg
04-27-2010, 09:27 PM
I'm suprised that the oil spill in the Gulf hasn't been mentioned on POTUs.

What do you feel the long term effect will be considering off shore drilling, oil prices, and future exploration off the US coast.

I'm really looking more for what do you think the result will be of this catastrophe.

I expect gas will be 3.50 - 4.00 per gallon this summer. The pundits will blame the sunken platform. Beyond that, its one heck of a mess to clean up. Nice timing for Obama. Didn't he just cave on off shore drilling?

huntinman
04-27-2010, 09:31 PM
I heard it was an inside job by the Obama administration. Whoever heard of solid steel burning and collapsing? Willie Nelson said it's never happened before, before he said he was sure it had!:rolleyes:

M&K's Retrievers
04-27-2010, 10:18 PM
[QUOTE=duk4me;606328]I'm suprised that the oil spill in the Gulf hasn't been mentioned on POTUs.

QUOTE]

Trying to figure how to blame Bush since he is out of office.:rolleyes:

david gibson
04-28-2010, 12:08 AM
I heard it was an inside job by the Obama administration. Whoever heard of solid steel burning and collapsing? Willie Nelson said it's never happened before, before he said he was sure it had!:rolleyes:


i bow in reverence.....

there was a big Dockdogs event at a festival called "Duckjam" put on by budweiser and Ducks Unlimited this past weekend in college station, with Willie playing saturday night. i enlightened several people to his idiotic rantings. he fell a few notches in their opinions of him, rightfully so.

the music is great but thats where it ends.

dnf777
04-28-2010, 07:27 AM
I feel bad for the beautiful fishing along La's coast. We used to surf fish Cocodrie, but that looks like it's in for devastation unless they can figure something out.

I thought this sort of thing wasn't supposed to happen with modern techniques and safety measures? Least that's what I remember being told.

road kill
04-28-2010, 07:43 AM
I expect gas will be 3.50 - 4.00 per gallon this summer. The pundits will blame the sunken platform. Beyond that, its one heck of a mess to clean up. Nice timing for Obama. Didn't he just cave on off shore drilling?


HaHaHaHa!!!:p



rk

badbullgator
04-28-2010, 08:25 AM
i bow in reverence.....

there was a big Dockdogs event at a festival called "Duckjam" put on by budweiser and Ducks Unlimited this past weekend in college station, with Willie playing saturday night. i enlightened several people to his idiotic rantings. he fell a few notches in their opinions of him, rightfully so.

the music is great but thats where it ends.


I love Willie for his music, but like most other celebrities I have no use for his opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I hate people who have celebrity and use it to advance their opinions to people who adore them for what they do. Just because you can sing, throw a ball, or pretend to be somebody (acting) it does not make you at all educated in your opinion but people seem to believe that celebrities know something more than most.
I think this is going to be a mess, actually it IS going to be an environmental mess. It is the nature of the beast though. It would be silly to think that anyplace you have drilling, shipping or what have you that you are not eventually going to have an accident that causes major damage. It is kind of like driving, you personally may never have an accident but everyday people are killed while driving, it happens but the benefits outweigh the consequences. How long have they been drilling in the gulf w/o a major spill? How long before it happens again? How long before the environmental damage has recovered? In Valdez most animals have recovered or are listed as recovering with the exception of two, the pacific herring and some kind of bird. Valdez was probably a bigger disaster because the remote location and the rugged area made access, containment, and clean up very difficult. LA has a very fragile coastline and this could be devastating, but I think/hope it will not be that bad.
Interesting that I am 450 miles SE of the rig and we are smelling the fire for the last couple of days. The wind has carried the remnants of the smoke over to us. I don’t really notice it but the EPA is monitoring it and along with NOAA are confirming that is where the smell is coming form.

Franco
04-28-2010, 08:27 AM
I feel bad for the beautiful fishing along La's coast. We used to surf fish Cocodrie, but that looks like it's in for devastation unless they can figure something out.

I thought this sort of thing wasn't supposed to happen with modern techniques and safety measures? Least that's what I remember being told.


http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2010/04/eyes_on_the_gulf_of_mexicos_oi.html

Cocodrie is not expect to get any of the oil spill and neither is the Cajun Riviera. There is concern for Breton Sound, southeast of New Orleans. The 66,000 acre Pass A Loutre Wildlife Management area has protective booms to stop any oil from entering this awesome duck hunting area.

Breton Sound is an oyster, shrimp and fishing paridise. Booms are expected to surround that area as well and the burning of surface oil is helping.

road kill
04-28-2010, 08:30 AM
IMO---This is not a political topic.
I have cleaned up more than one spill.
It is tragic.

Good luck to the USCG and all the others involved in the clean up, it is a daunting task!!



rk

Buzz
04-28-2010, 08:46 AM
I have actually always been in favor of offshore drilling. At the moment, I'm not so sure. Hopefully disaster for the Gulf Shoreline can be averted...

Franco
04-28-2010, 09:05 AM
I have actually always been in favor of offshore drilling. At the moment, I'm not so sure. Hopefully disaster for the Gulf Shoreline can be averted...

I don't think you will find too many folks around here against offshore drilling! Remember, the wellhead is now at 5,000 feet below sea level. This is a new challenege and much will be learned from this experience. If the submarines can't get the value shut today, they may have the dome in place by late tomorrow. The dome would allow them to pump directly from the dome to a ship.

badbullgator
04-28-2010, 09:09 AM
I am still in favor of drilling at this point

Goose
04-28-2010, 09:12 AM
The Coast Guard says 'burn it'!

BonMallari
04-28-2010, 09:40 AM
I have actually always been in favor of offshore drilling. At the moment, I'm not so sure. Hopefully disaster for the Gulf Shoreline can be averted...


there is a nice big place to drill on the frozen tundra...and I dont mean Lambeau Field


Drill Baby, Drill :D:D

mjh345
04-28-2010, 10:05 AM
i bow in reverence.....

there was a big Dockdogs event at a festival called "Duckjam" put on by budweiser and Ducks Unlimited this past weekend in college station, with Willie playing saturday night. i enlightened several people to his idiotic rantings. he fell a few notches in their opinions of him, rightfully so.

the music is great but thats where it ends.

Next concert {or movie or entertainment event or whatever} that I go to I sure hope there will be a mentor present to "ENLIGHTEN" me as to the political {or religious or personal or whatever leanings} of the entertainers.

That is real important to judge the entertainment value of the performance; and I'm sure would greatly enhance the experience.

I also feel it would be great if shows like "Meet the Press" would critique Dick Cheney, Nancy Pelosi or whatever guest on their guitar pickin and singin chops.

Pat Paulson for president regards

dnf777
04-28-2010, 01:02 PM
I guess if they allow more coastal drilling, we'll be seeing a lot more black labs?

Seriously, I'm glad to hear Cocodrie will be spared, not that anywhere else is more deserving, but Cocodrie holds a place in my heart.

For the others here who haven't had the privilege and wonderful experience of fishing, hunting, or just enjoying raw, unspoiled nature down there , Cocodrie is WAY down on the delta, where few people wander. Those who do, enjoy some of the best damn surf fishing anywhere in the world. You will still occasionally see shacks with people living in them, with no roads, no cars....just pirogues.

depittydawg
04-28-2010, 01:06 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/us/29wind.html?hp

At least of one of these burns up and sinks, it won't cause a mess all over the coast.

Raymond Little
04-28-2010, 02:56 PM
I guess if they allow more coastal drilling, we'll be seeing a lot more black labs?

Seriously, I'm glad to hear Cocodrie will be spared, not that anywhere else is more deserving, but Cocodrie holds a place in my heart.

For the others here who haven't had the privilege and wonderful experience of fishing, hunting, or just enjoying raw, unspoiled nature down there , Cocodrie is WAY down on the delta, where few people wander. Those who do, enjoy some of the best damn surf fishing anywhere in the world. You will still occasionally see shacks with people living in them, with no roads, no cars....just pirogues.
Yep, we are all living in squalar down here;-) The enviromental impact has been blown out of proportion but that is what Pravda does in America.:rolleyes:

Godspeed to the Horizon

Franco
04-28-2010, 03:15 PM
Stu Shearer has built a financial empire with his fishing services down in Cocodrie. Stu has more power than the head of the parish(county) and calls most of the shots down there.

Dulac, which is just down the road is just as you described. Use to be a great place to shoot ducks before the U S Army Corp. Of Engineers got a hold of it and destroyed the marsh!

dnf777
04-28-2010, 06:28 PM
Yep, we are all living in squalar down here;-) The enviromental impact has been blown out of proportion but that is what Pravda does in America.:rolleyes:

Godspeed to the Horizon

Lake Charles was the "big city" to us, when we lived in Beauregard Parish! Heck, you guys even have a Barnes & Noble last time I checked. ;)

duk4me
04-28-2010, 06:54 PM
IMO---This is not a political topic.
I have cleaned up more than one spill.
It is tragic.

Good luck to the USCG and all the others involved in the clean up, it is a daunting task!!



rk

Sorry RK since you are the self appointed POTUS police and kindergarden cop maybe you should move it like the moderators do.:rolleyes:

dnf777
04-28-2010, 07:08 PM
IMO---This is not a political topic.
I have cleaned up more than one spill.
It is tragic.

Good luck to the USCG and all the others involved in the clean up, it is a daunting task!!

rk

I agree that the current tragedy and the call to action is NOT political. Time to drop the nametags and all help clean this mess up!

I respectfully disagree that the discussion that will ensue regarding "drill, baby drill" is not political. It is 100% political in regards to how much new drilling should be started...what safety and industry regulation (if any at all) should be in place....who should pay for future cleanups....

We all know that more drilling will occur. Even Obama is in that camp. Where disagreement will occur is how much industry regulation is in order, in part to hold those with the drills responsible for safe, clean drilling.

Franco
04-28-2010, 07:20 PM
We all know that more drilling will occur. Even Obama is in that camp. Where disagreement will occur is how much industry regulation is in order, in part to hold those with the drills responsible for safe, clean drilling.



I hate to think of the money BP is losing with this accident. I know they spends 10's of millions on saftey and responsible drilling. It is much cheaper for them to have all the latest saftey equipment and training than take the financial beating they will take for this spill. If it really gets bad, other industiries could suffer too like fishing, recreation and tourism all along the mid-gulf coast.

The business of oil field saftey is paramont, including using the best and latest drilling techniques. Even with all the latest technology, shit happens. Attorneys are hoovering over the 11 families that lost loved ones in the explosion. Everyone involved knows that it is better to prevent than deal with the aftermath.

The last thing we need is for Obama to lecture on drilling responsibility! If he knows a safer way to drill at 5,000 feet below sea level, then let him present his equipment and technology.

dnf777
04-28-2010, 07:28 PM
I'm no petroleum engineer, but wouldn't it make sense to engineer a deliberate weak point near the well insertion point into the ground (break-away point) with a dead-man valve immediately below, so any mishap like this would 1) break at a predictable point in a controlled fashion, and 2) automatically close the well-head?

Mark Littlejohn
04-28-2010, 07:53 PM
I'm no petroleum engineer, but wouldn't it make sense to engineer a deliberate weak point near the well insertion point into the ground (break-away point) with a dead-man valve immediately below, so any mishap like this would 1) break at a predictable point in a controlled fashion, and 2) automatically close the well-head?

You've just described a subsea blowout preventer (BOP).
Here's a pic of one; note the scale.
This is what their ROVs have been working 24x7 to close manually.
http://oilstatesintl.com/_filelib/ImageGallery/Products_Services/OSIAR2005_022.200x267.jpg

Henry V
04-28-2010, 09:29 PM
I hate to think of the money BP is losing with this accident. I know they spends 10's of millions on saftey and responsible drilling. It is much cheaper for them to have all the latest saftey equipment and training than take the financial beating they will take for this spill. If it really gets bad, other industiries could suffer too like fishing, recreation and tourism all along the mid-gulf coast.

The business of oil field saftey is paramont, including using the best and latest drilling techniques. Even with all the latest technology, shit happens. ......

Yes, poor BP. I sure hope the government sends them the bill for all the clean-up costs. No reason that the taxpayers should be paying for clean-up needed because of a private company accident, particularly when the company made 10s of billions in net profits a couple years ago. If other industries are damaged by the spill they should recover losses too.

dnf777
04-29-2010, 05:54 AM
You've just described a subsea blowout preventer (BOP).
Here's a pic of one; note the scale.
This is what their ROVs have been working 24x7 to close manually.
http://oilstatesintl.com/_filelib/ImageGallery/Products_Services/OSIAR2005_022.200x267.jpg

I guess I forgot point #3-- that the above described device will work as advertised in the event of an actual emergency! :D

Hey, that valve wasn't designed by Toyota, was it?

Hew
04-29-2010, 08:33 AM
A hopefully-not-too-boring-aside...

The Coast Guard are the mack daddies of emergency response/hazmat clean-up. They're so good that the EPA sometimes uses them on non-waterway projects, too. We were working on train derailment in Alabama about 75 miles from the Gulf. It was a particularly tricky/dangerous job and after multiple, national hazmat companies couldn't get the job done after 3 days of trying the Coast Guards HazMat team was called in. Dudes rolled in like the A-Team and got the job licked. There were more than a 100 contractor personnel and emergency workers on the job and when the Coasties packed up to leave they all gave them an ovation.

Buzz
04-29-2010, 08:46 AM
A hopefully-not-too-boring-aside...

The Coast Guard are the mack daddies of emergency response/hazmat clean-up. They're so good that the EPA sometimes uses them on non-waterway projects, too. We were working on train derailment in Alabama about 75 miles from the Gulf. It was a particularly tricky/dangerous job and after multiple, national hazmat companies couldn't get the job done after 3 days of trying the Coast Guards HazMat team was called in. Dudes rolled in like the A-Team and got the job licked. There were more than a 100 contractor personnel and emergency workers on the job and when the Coasties packed up to leave they all gave them an ovation.

It's nice to know that the gooberment is capable of getting something right.;-)

menmon
04-29-2010, 10:11 AM
I support offshore drilling but not near areas that a disaster such as this could devistate their economies such as fishing and tourism. This accidents do not happen often anymore, but still happen.

The lobbiest get puplic support by telling you that not allowing drilling in these regions is the reason for high fuel prices, when the allowance of drilling in them would probablly not change the price at all. Now it would be good for the oil companies since it would give them a cheap exploration source, but we would see very little if any benefit.

Having said this, this oil spill we are seeing and has the potential of hurting many.

Follow the gold, it will usually will tell you the real story!

ducknwork
04-29-2010, 11:10 AM
I support offshore drilling but not near areas that a disaster such as this could devistate their economies such as fishing and tourism.


What coastal community does not receive a large portion of their income from fishing and tourism?:confused: What you are basically saying is that you don't support offshore drilling, right?

menmon
04-29-2010, 11:34 AM
What coastal community does not receive a large portion of their income from fishing and tourism?:confused: What you are basically saying is that you don't support offshore drilling, right?

No....I live next to the gulf and they have been drilling and moving oil in my back yard for years. When I was a kid the beachs would be black with tar from the oil spills, so our beaches never became tourist attactions unless you lived close to them.

My point is that there are places that's economies are centralized around tourism and fishing. Lets not let Exxon kill their economies and then say I'm sorry and hire the best lawyers to clean up their mess and ruin the lives of the victims.

Ask the folks in Alaska about the Exxon Valdes spill and how Exxon made things right after they screwed it up.

But yes, I wish we were smart enough to come up with a better way of energy that did not have as many negative extranalities.

But I see you are sitting in the front row for Glenn and Rush still.

Buzz
04-29-2010, 11:52 AM
But yes, I wish we were smart enough to come up with a better way of energy that did not have as many negative extranalities.




It's all a matter of priorities. Over the years I have done work in the area of alternate energies and electric vehicles, and not one bit of it would have been done without government mandates and incentives.

About time you put up an avatar. Is that Sam? I thought he was running against Raven this weekend, but I guess not till Omaha. She is in Lincoln this weekend. Hope she can make it past the water blind...

menmon
04-29-2010, 01:52 PM
It's all a matter of priorities. Over the years I have done work in the area of alternate energies and electric vehicles, and not one bit of it would have been done without government mandates and incentives.

About time you put up an avatar. Is that Sam? I thought he was running against Raven this weekend, but I guess not till Omaha. She is in Lincoln this weekend. Hope she can make it past the water blind...

That's Isaac my Derby dog. He won that blue ribbon last week, putting him on the list.

Sam's running River King. You are running Nebraska Dog & Hunt trail. Bobby use to split the truck and go to that one. Sam actually won his first trial there. Kari and I have fond memories from there.

gman0046
04-29-2010, 03:53 PM
I've always supported off shore drilling but now I'm not so sure. Almost a week and a half after the explosion the thing is still dumping 5,000 barrels a day into the Gulf. Earlier today Fox News was reporting it could take up to 90 days to stop the leak. If thats the case you can write off all the eastern and southern coastal areas of the U.S.

dnf777
04-29-2010, 04:00 PM
I've always supported off shore drilling but now I'm not so sure. Almost a week and a half after the explosion the thing is still dumping 5,000 barrels a day into the Gulf. Earlier today Fox News was reporting it could take up to 90 days to stop the leak. If thats the case you can write off all the eastern and southern coastal areas of the U.S.

All of us who sleep in warm homes (or cool homes, in the south) and drive to work and training grounds, will see to it that every drop of oil is sucked out of the ground, on shore and off shore. Despite being falsely accused of being a liberal (in some cases) I will be the first to admit that banning drilling ANYWHERE there is oil, is only temporary, until all the other oil is gone. So, we need to admit to ourselves that drilling WILL occur in sensitive areas, if not now, later, so lets' get busy figuring out safer ways to do it, and better ways to clean up the inevitable spills. The "failsafe" blow out valve needs to be renamed, as it apparently is NOT failsafe. I'll bet we as consumers paid a pretty penny for that heavy anchor. Granted, anything designed to operate 5000 under saltwater for years is not easy to guarantee, but we need to figure it out, unless we can figure out how to drive cars off of saltwater in the meantime.

ducknwork
04-29-2010, 04:10 PM
But I see you are sitting in the front row for Glenn and Rush still.

If that's what you are seeing, you must be peeping in the wrong living room windows.:rolleyes: Come up with something original.

depittydawg
04-29-2010, 04:14 PM
I've always supported off shore drilling but now I'm not so sure. Almost a week and a half after the explosion the thing is still dumping 5,000 barrels a day into the Gulf. Earlier today Fox News was reporting it could take up to 90 days to stop the leak. If thats the case you can write off all the eastern and southern coastal areas of the U.S.

They are now suggesting the actual spill may be double what has been quoted. Personally I never supported off shore drilling. At least not in my back yard. But then, their isn't any oil there anyway. I take a more local approach to the subject. It should be put up to a vote in the communities it affects. Let them decide if they want the business and the risk that goes with it.

Buzz
04-29-2010, 04:18 PM
I'm trying to figure out when it's a good time to buy BP stock.:D

starjack
04-29-2010, 04:26 PM
All very suspect to me

Henry V
04-29-2010, 08:14 PM
...Almost a week and a half after the explosion the thing is still dumping 5,000 barrels a day into the Gulf. Earlier today Fox News was reporting it could take up to 90 days to stop the leak....

This is amazing. You would have thought that the engineers that designed the drilling rig would have planned for this type of event. If something goes bad, there needs to be a automatic system with redundancy to shut the well down. Seems like a no-brainer doesn't it?

YardleyLabs
04-29-2010, 08:49 PM
It appears that this is not the first time there has been a problem with the blow out preventer valve on a Transocean rig operated by BP (http://blogs.forbes.com/energysource/2010/04/29/bp-oil-spill-investigation-will-focus-on-blowout-preventers/) (http://blogs.forbes.com/energysource/2010/04/29/bp-oil-spill-investigation-will-focus-on-blowout-preventers/). Unfortunately, the cost of doing a job correctly always looks greater when the risk of failure is hypothetical. Otherwise reasonable people decide to avoid the certain cost because they are sure that the problem will never really happen. That is an appropriate reason to fear and rigorously regulate all activities where the potential costs of failures are almost infinite. This is true for both nuclear reactors and deep water wells.

dnf777
04-29-2010, 09:17 PM
That is an appropriate reason to fear and rigorously regulate all activities where the potential costs of failures are almost infinite. This is true for both nuclear reactors and deep water wells.

Being from Pennsylvania, Jeff, you ought to know nothing can go wrong with nuclear reactors! :rolleyes:

Franco
04-29-2010, 10:28 PM
This is amazing. You would have thought that the engineers that designed the drilling rig would have planned for this type of event. If something goes bad, there needs to be a automatic system with redundancy to shut the well down. Seems like a no-brainer doesn't it?

Unless the casing was perforated well below the head. They are saying that the casing could be leaking from three areas.

Plan is to get a dome over the wellhead and pump out of the dome and into a ship. This will give them time to drill directionally with Horizon's twin, which is already at the scene.

Problem with clean up is that since the accident, the gulf has 10-20 foot seas. Collection booms are being strung all along the mid-gulf coast.

JDogger
04-29-2010, 10:44 PM
I'm sorry for the folks in LA. This looks very bad. Not just for the residents of LA, but for the country as a whole. We'll all end up paying for it to some degree or another.

I have to ask, however, how's that "drill, baby, drill" thingy workin' for ya now? :p

JD

road kill
04-30-2010, 06:23 AM
I'm sorry for the folks in LA. This looks very bad. Not just for the residents of LA, but for the country as a whole. We'll all end up paying for it to some degree or another.

I have to ask, however, how's that "drill, baby, drill" thingy workin' for ya now? :p

JD


Interesting question?
Wonder about the timing (Toyota like).
I guess Obama will have to back off his drilling ideas now ...huh!!??!!??:rolleyes:


Who'd of ever thunk it????



rk

Buzz
04-30-2010, 08:26 AM
Interesting question?
Wonder about the timing (Toyota like).
I guess Obama will have to back off his drilling ideas now ...huh!!??!!??:rolleyes:


Who'd of ever thunk it????



rk

I hate to say it, but now you're sounding like Glenn Beck.

So you think that this event was politically motivated?

Wow!

dnf777
04-30-2010, 08:28 AM
Interesting question?
Wonder about the timing (Toyota like).
I guess Obama will have to back off his drilling ideas now ...huh!!??!!??:rolleyes:
Who'd of ever thunk it????
rk

How'd ya like to be the poor advisor who told Obama, "now's the time to go ahead with the drilling proposition?" last month?

He may be the guy showing up at your door to ask census question this w/e, or the guy flippin your big mac!

Franco
04-30-2010, 09:30 AM
The real tragedy in this will be in giving the Dems more leverage in limiting offshore drilling.

http://www.wwl.com/

If one really wants to know what is going on, listen to the stream on WWL radio. They are covering this around the clock and only deviate from the coverage to give the latest New Olreans Saints' news.

Last night, they have a panal of biologist and geologist on discussing the situation. An estimate several million barrels of oil seep from the floor of the gulf annually as part of the natural environment. The biggest imapct in La, will be to the oyster beds between the mouth of the river and Ms Gulf Coast. Oysters can't move out of the way. The oil won't kill them as much as make them unedible. There are enough booms to keep most of the spill from reaching shore. Oil will disapate in a short period of time.

The big danager is in not getting the well secured in the very near future. Increasing spill would damage the white sand beaches of Ms and upper Florida. Directional drilling has already begun and they are working to get the dome placed over the wellhead. Rough seas persist and that is making it more difficult.

With the vast amount of drilling offshore, accidents will happen. They are trying to determine the reason for the explosion and nothing has been ruled out.

YardleyLabs
04-30-2010, 09:57 AM
The real tragedy in this will be in giving the Dems more leverage in limiting offshore drilling.

... (http://www.wwl.com/)Is it sufficient to rely on the companies involved in off-shore drilling to regulate themselves, or should the government play a more active role in defining safety standards? Should the government play a more active role in developing (or prmoting the development) of clean up technologies for the spills that are bound to happen? If, for argument's sake, this disaster results in $30-50 billion in damages, where should the liability lie for compensation of those suffering loss? Should there be limits on liability?

Obviously, a lot of work will be done to investigate the cause of this disaster and there will be many questions about what has or should have been done for containment. However, if we assume that off shore drilling will continue out of necessity, what levels of such disasters are "acceptable" and what should be done to manage this risk?

dnf777
04-30-2010, 10:06 AM
Last night, they have a panal of biologist and geologist on discussing the situation. An estimate several million barrels of oil seep from the floor of the gulf annually as part of the natural environment.

Just like global climate change.

Well, we can't outright DENY that the oil spill is occurring, so lets just say nobody can prove its a result of man's actions. Oh wait, it IS a well that's leaking so that won't work. Hey! Let say more oil spills occur naturally, and this is just a natural event. We can maybe even put a positive spin on it!

Come on Franco! I know you don't buy that line! Just wait until you see the reds and specs, brown pelicans, and other coastal marine life washing up on the shores. I pray we don't see that, that SOMETHING will intervene, but "natural environment" oil spills? Ain't buyin' it. Yes, I've spent countless hours in the flooded timbers and swamps of the Texas and La coast, and have seen oil sheens appear on the water. Very gradual, slow, trickles do occur, but so minute, and so slow, that the environment can absorb these. Aggragate amounts the world over, maybe its millions? But Transocean and Valdez do not mimick natural oil flows!!!

Franco
04-30-2010, 10:12 AM
No one is denying the oil spill is man created. My point is that wildife already copes witha certain amount of oil in the water.

We have also come a long way in clean up technology since the Valdez spill.

Eric Johnson
04-30-2010, 10:12 AM
There's a story moving today that quoted the environmentalist from the Clinton administration who was a part of the planning effort to deal with these episodes.

He says the Coast Guard has standing permission and orders to start burning immediately. The only reason he can think for not doing so is that the decision was blocked for political reasons.....the large black smoke plume.

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/04/gulf_coast_oil_slick_to_grow_d.html

Eric

dback
04-30-2010, 10:12 AM
The oil won't kill them as much as make them unedible.

Sorry Franco......this thing breaks my heart...but...that's not one of the reasons :shock:

Franco
04-30-2010, 10:36 AM
There's a story moving today that quoted the environmentalist from the Clinton administration who was a part of the planning effort to deal with these episodes.

He says the Coast Guard has standing permission and orders to start burning immediately. The only reason he can think for not doing so is that the decision was blocked for political reasons.....the large black smoke plume.

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/04/gulf_coast_oil_slick_to_grow_d.html

Eric

Burning is not working because of the 20 foot seas they've had to deal with over the last week.

dnf777
04-30-2010, 10:41 AM
If I remember stepping on tar balls correctly, :(, the oil get congealed and burns VERY slowly. You can't even light a tar ball with a bic. The oil in the gulf isn't that non-volatile yet, though, hopefully. Doesn't look like the weather/currents are helping any, either.

Eric Johnson
04-30-2010, 10:51 AM
First of all, the winds now aren't the issue. The winds a week ago the day after the event would be the issue.

Second, we aren't talking about #6 diesel. This is a reasonably sweet petroleum that would burn apparently fairly well.

The point is, while they were talking about "gee, maybe we ought to burn it," the fires should have already been started.

Eric

Franco
04-30-2010, 11:47 AM
They've been buring it for days, that is what they can burn.

Check out nola.com

The city of New Orleans is having to deal with the smoke from the buring.

Henry V
04-30-2010, 12:44 PM
Burning this type dispersed spill is unrealistic. At best, only a small percentage will be consumed.

Let's see, we've had a couple of coal mine disasters, an ongoing oil spill of national significance, and rising oil prices. All we need now is a nuclear reactor accident and maybe folks will start to think a bit more about a slightly different approach to national energy policy.;)

What was that saying?
SPILL BABY SPILL

road kill
04-30-2010, 01:20 PM
I hate to say it, but now you're sounding like Glenn Beck.

So you think that this event was politically motivated?

Wow!

My understanding is the part that failed was installed by.....




Drum roll please........




HALIBURTON!!!

Why, I'll bet this is all Bush's fault!!;-)






Did any of you Lefty's (woops, I mean independants) just mess yourselves?




No, huh uh, just pure coincidence!!





rk

dnf777
04-30-2010, 01:59 PM
My understanding is the part that failed was installed by.....

Drum roll please........

HALIBURTON!!!

Why, I'll bet this is all Bush's fault!!;-)

Did any of you Lefty's (woops, I mean independants) just mess yourselves?

No, huh uh, just pure coincidence!!



Sounds to me like the responsibility "shell game" has already begun! We have Transocean, BP, Haliburton, the BOP manufacturer....I'll bet we're all out of oil and onto alternative energies before the courts settle this one!

The question now becomes.........how many more of these "failsafe" valves are "protecting" our waters and shores right now, as this one continues to hemorrhage!

Hew
04-30-2010, 05:29 PM
Let's see, we've had a couple of coal mine disasters, an ongoing oil spill of national significance, and rising oil prices. All we need now is a nuclear reactor accident and maybe folks will start to think a bit more about a slightly different approach to national energy policy.;)

What was that saying?
SPILL BABY SPILL
Reminds me of you lefties cheerleading for our failure in Iraq.

As long as it furthers your political goals anything/everything is expendable, isn't it?

dnf777
04-30-2010, 05:43 PM
Nobody is cheering for failure here, Hew. And this independent (you say leftie) never cheered for failure in Iraq.

I think with this new realization of what's at stake if we expand drilling in sensitive areas, re-evaluating energy policy is certainly in order. But not behind closed doors, either. Many knew of this potential, many denied it was possible. Now we sadly know the truth. To reduce the risk of this type of catastrophe may require that we pay more for a gallon of gas, or more to heat our homes.

Where the hell is a strong north wind when you really need one?

depittydawg
04-30-2010, 06:22 PM
Nobody is cheering for failure here, Hew. And this independent (you say leftie) never cheered for failure in Iraq.

I think with this new realization of what's at stake if we expand drilling in sensitive areas, re-evaluating energy policy is certainly in order. But not behind closed doors, either. Many knew of this potential, many denied it was possible. Now we sadly know the truth. To reduce the risk of this type of catastrophe may require that we pay more for a gallon of gas, or more to heat our homes.

Where the hell is a strong north wind when you really need one?

As our Former President, Mr Bush put it, "America is addicted to oil". Addictions have their price. And it is usually heavy. There is only one cure. We need to kick the habit. Obviously we can't go cold turkey. But we don't have to. All we have to do is join the rest of the world and start developing the alternatives that are available and reduce our consumption of fossil fuel. Then we won't need to put oil wells in the arctic or a mile deep in the gulf or anywhere else.

road kill
04-30-2010, 06:38 PM
As our Former President, Mr Bush put it, "America is addicted to oil". Addictions have their price. And it is usually heavy. There is only one cure. We need to kick the habit. Obviously we can't go cold turkey. But we don't have to. All we have to do is join the rest of the world and start developing the alternatives that are available and reduce our consumption of fossil fuel. Then we won't need to put oil wells in the arctic or a mile deep in the gulf or anywhere else.


Really?

What alternatives are the rest of the world developing??
France--Nukes??
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/readings/french.html
China--Coal fired Generators??
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/world/asia/11coal.html?_r=1

Please tell me, I am curious and anxious to hear about them.:D



rk

YardleyLabs
04-30-2010, 06:49 PM
Yu can toss in wind power which, for example, is the source of 6% of German electrical production, solar power, and geothermal power among others. All three are significant sources of power in various countries.

dnf777
04-30-2010, 06:59 PM
I heard Germany started a gov't incentive program to encourage new and existing homes to have solar panels installed to generate a goal of 4 gigawatts of electricity, sometime around 2000. Currently, roof panels are creating far above goal, much of which the power company reimburses the homeowners for. Also in that time, the efficiency of solar panels has almost doubled, in response to consumer demand, and prices have fallen.

I thought I remembered hearing Obama reference this, and hoped we would see similar programs here. Simple, by no means "socialist", and efficient. Not to mention clean.

from wiki:

Germany is the world's top photovoltaics (PV) installer, accounting for almost half of the global solar power market in 2007. The country has a feed-in tariff for renewable electricity, which requires utilities to pay customers a guaranteed rate for any solar power they feed into the grid. Germans installed about 1,300 megawatts of new PV capacity in 2007, up from 850 megawatts in 2006, for a cumulative total exceeding 3,830 megawatts.[1] . Germany added a further 2 GW in 2008 and 2.5 GW in 2009 taking the total to 8.3 GW by end of 2009. As capacity has risen, installed PV system costs have been cut in half between 1997 and 2007. Solar power now meets about 1 percent of Germany's electricity demand, a share that some market analysts expect could reach 25 percent by 2050.[1]

JDogger
04-30-2010, 08:07 PM
there are a couple of home builders here in NM that are building new homes with photo-voltaic and grid-tie technology. The cost of these homes is about 15% above the cost of conventional constuction for the homes with the highest level of AE technology. While most advantageous to the young, first-time home buyer, I am myself considering having my home retrofitted. While I might not re-coup the cost in utility savings in the remainder of my life, I might in resale value when I decide to retire and downsize my digs.
As this technology continues to catch on and expand, it might just be the economic shot in the arm we need. As long as we make sure the contractors don't hire illegals to do the work, ;) and we make the panels in this country, even if they cost more.

JD

Marvin S
04-30-2010, 09:30 PM
All we have to do is join the rest of the world and start developing the alternatives that are available and reduce our consumption of fossil fuel. Then we won't need to put oil wells in the arctic or a mile deep in the gulf or anywhere else.

Do you ride a bicycle wherever you go, if not, you are part of the problem. We need to go where the oil occurs, which is not always on a flat spot in the Sahara. I have the greatest faith that engineers will find a workable solution to the problem, as they always do.

BTW, ever been to the La Brea tar pits?


Yu can toss in wind power which, for example, is the source of 6% of German electrical production, solar power, and geothermal power among others. All three are significant sources of power in various countries.

If I remember correctly, utilities in this country are one of the most heavily regulated by your fellow travelers from the government. So why haven't they done something when they have the hammer?

YardleyLabs
05-01-2010, 04:42 AM
...


If I remember correctly, utilities in this country are one of the most heavily regulated by your fellow travelers from the government. So why haven't they done something when they have the hammer?More and more states have been acting to "encourage" utilities to use more electricity from renewable resources. In PA, there are mandates on both this and conservation.

Hew
05-01-2010, 06:15 AM
The North Koreans torpoeded the oil rig with a mini-sub. So says this article from the EU Times (no idea who they are or if they have any credibility): http://www.eutimes.net/2010/05/us-orders-blackout-over-north-korean-torpedoing-of-gulf-of-mexico-oil-rig/ Bizarre. It says that a NK tanker left Cuba, unexpectedly diverted its course nearer to the rig just before it blew. The motive was that some S. Korean company (Hydai, Daewoo, don't remember) has an interest in the rig. The North Koreans are so damn whacky that nothing is beyond question with them so I was almost tempted to put a little stock in the article. But then the article made the claim that Obama's considering detonating a nuke at the blow-out to cap it (the movie "Armageddon" anyone?).

dnf777
05-01-2010, 10:28 AM
At least Pat Robertsen hasn't blamed the spill on all the gays in New Orleans this time. Yet. Wasn't that what caused Katrina?

M&K's Retrievers
05-01-2010, 10:32 AM
At least Pat Robertsen hasn't blamed the spill on all the gays in New Orleans this time. Yet. Wasn't that what caused Katrina?

Bush isn't gay. :p

Franco
05-01-2010, 03:58 PM
When the rig burned and collapsed, if fell on top of the wellhead. That's why the subs have not been able to turn the valve. They are drilling directionally as well as trying other solutions to cap the well.

The local media is not as hysterical as the national media. The folks working to contain the spill are doing a great job of it even under the high wind conditions.

gman0046
05-01-2010, 06:05 PM
Franco, it's been a week and a half since the explosion and the oil leak is continually getting worse. What leads you to the conclusion the folks working on the spil are doing a great job?????

Franco
05-01-2010, 06:30 PM
They done a great job of containment, so far. Very little has come ashore.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/gulf_of_mexico_oil_spill_anima.html

duk4me
05-01-2010, 06:39 PM
They done a great job of containment, so far. Very little has come ashore.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/gulf_of_mexico_oil_spill_anima.html

I hope your right Franco. You really can't trust the media on things. Mad Cow, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, etc. Your down there in it so I would think you have a clearer perspective than the rest of us.

Franco
05-01-2010, 06:57 PM
I hope your right Franco. You really can't trust the media on things. Mad Cow, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, etc. Your down there in it so I would think you have a clearer perspective than the rest of us.

Much of the the type of oil that is leaking will disapate. I've been listening to WWL Radio in New Orleans for the last couple of days. They have had on biologist after another talking about the impact. They aren't as distressed as the rest. If you want the straight scoop without all the national speculation, listen to them on-line at; www.wwl.com (http://www.wwl.com)

dnf777
05-01-2010, 08:48 PM
As always, I am cautious about what I hear on ANY media outlet. Some are better than others, but all are owned by someone. I've heard some downplaying the ecological disaster, and another guy said it's 5x worse than what they are reporting, as of Saturday morning. Probably the most accurate assessment, was a guy who claimed that these numbers are all best-guess estimates, based upon the last known variables, and we don't really even know what the flow rate is.

The debate will rage on whether or not drill offshore. One piece of the debate that will be missing, is the assurances that something of this magnitude can never happen. All the safety assurances we've been hearing, need to shift to "ok, it CAN and WILL happen", here's what we can do to contain and minimize damage when it does.

Eric Johnson
05-01-2010, 09:31 PM
When does hurricane season officially start?

Eric

Franco
05-01-2010, 10:07 PM
June 1st.

But, if you look at when they are most likely to effect the area, mid-August till late September.

dnf777
05-02-2010, 10:45 AM
Does anyone else here question the logic behind dispersants? I mean, thery're not "disappearants", they merely make the oil go out of sight, out of mind. Sure, its alters the physical characteristics, and that may help with some ecological impacts, but the toxicological properties still remain, and are now impossible to contain/remove.

Franco
05-02-2010, 11:22 AM
Checkout this Podcast from this morning;"Oil Crisis In The Gulf". Especially, Dr. Overton's comments.
http://www.wwl.com/pages/1050632.php

Eric Johnson
05-03-2010, 01:23 PM
Despite plan, not a single fire boom on hand on Gulf Coast at time of oil spill

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/fire_boom_oil_spill_raines.html

http://tinyurl.com/24z6auq

If U.S. officials had followed up on a 1994 response plan for a major Gulf oil spill, it is possible that the spill could have been kept under control and far from land.

The problem: The federal government did not have a single fire boom on hand.

The "In-Situ Burn" plan produced by federal agencies in 1994 calls for responding to a major oil spill in the Gulf with the immediate use of fire booms.

But in order to conduct a successful test burn eight days after the Deepwater Horizon well began releasing massive amounts of oil into the Gulf, officials had to purchase one from a company in Illinois.

-more-

Eric Johnson
05-03-2010, 01:28 PM
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/bp_official_weve_significantly.html

http://tinyurl.com/2bxpmzz

Breaking News from the Press-Register

BP official: 'We've significantly cut the flow' of oil from damaged rig
By George Talbot
May 03, 2010, 11:42AM

MOBILE, Ala. -- BP has significantly cut the flow of oil leaking from its damaged Deepwater Horizon rig on the Gulf of Mexico sea floor, a company spokesman said this morning.

Jeff Childs, a deputy incident commander for BP, said in a briefing with Alabama officials that the company successfully shut a set of hydraulic shears known as annular rams, helping to clamp the ruptured pipe and block the leaking oil.

"We've significantly cut the flow through the pipe," Childs said at the Mobile briefing hosted by U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Tuscaloosa.

-more-

Marty Lee
05-03-2010, 02:06 PM
Man from the looks of that picture they should be able to use the submarine to screw a valve in that joint of pipe .....

Hew
05-03-2010, 02:39 PM
Does anyone else here question the logic behind dispersants? I mean, thery're not "disappearants", they merely make the oil go out of sight, out of mind. Sure, its alters the physical characteristics, and that may help with some ecological impacts, but the toxicological properties still remain, and are now impossible to contain/remove.
There's a saying in the industry...the solution to pollution is dilution. The dispersant, I believe, breaks up the oil and thus dilutes it. And perhaps we're talking two different languages, but I'd suspect that the major problem with the oil is immediately ecological (animals swimming through it) and not longterm toxicological (chemical absorption by plants and animals).

david gibson
05-03-2010, 03:42 PM
There's a saying in the industry...the solution to pollution is dilution. The dispersant, I believe, breaks up the oil and thus dilutes it. And perhaps we're talking two different languages, but I'd suspect that the major problem with the oil is immediately ecological (animals swimming through it) and not longterm toxicological (chemical absorption by plants and animals).

exactly. plus, dispersing it allows for more surface area that in turn allows for more bugs, natural and introduced, to consume it.

and dont worry folks! PBO and his crew have been attacking this since day 1! they have been so busy attacking it, in fact, that he didnt even have time make his first public statement about it until day 9!

this administration is clueless and scared to death that the "Obama's katrina" nickname will stick. i think it already has! ;-)

dnf777
05-03-2010, 03:45 PM
exactly. plus, dispersing it allows for more surface area that in turn allows for more bugs, natural and introduced, to consume it.

and dont worry folks! PBO and his crew have been attacking this since day 1! they have been so busy attacking it, in fact, that he didnt even have time make his first public statement about it until day 9!

this administration is clueless and scared to death that the "Obama's katrina" nickname will stick. i think it already has! ;-)

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to gleefully politicize this! That's great. Hold the skimmers while we play politics!

I'm wondering how anyone is supposed to know on DAY ONE what exactly is occurring 5000' under the surface of the gulf, when the only people there are BP officials, and they weren't talking???

zeus3925
05-03-2010, 03:57 PM
exactly. plus, dispersing it allows for more surface area that in turn allows for more bugs, natural and introduced, to consume it.

and dont worry folks! PBO and his crew have been attacking this since day 1! they have been so busy attacking it, in fact, that he didnt even have time make his first public statement about it until day 9!

this administration is clueless and scared to death that the "Obama's katrina" nickname will stick. i think it already has! ;-)

Gib, that is a cheap shot and you know it.

By the way I went to your website and your photography is excellent!! Keep up the good (photo) work!

Hew
05-03-2010, 03:57 PM
I'm wondering how anyone is supposed to know on DAY ONE what exactly is occurring 5000' under the surface of the gulf, when the only people there are BP officials, and they weren't talking???
You callin' your boy and his minions liars?: http://www.politico.com/largevideobox.html?bcpid=15202024001&bclid=1201016315&bctid=82523507001

dnf777
05-03-2010, 03:59 PM
If "day one" is when the information becomes known, then I have no problem.
Otherwise, if the shoe fits....

Oh, and if this is "Obama's Katrina", then obviously the blame lies with the new mayor and republican Gov. Jindal...right?
(see how silly your words sound when they're on the other foot?) (not you, Hew, but the others who would give GWB a freebie on Katrina)

road kill
05-03-2010, 04:03 PM
If "day one" is when the information becomes known, then I have no problem.
Otherwise, if the shoe fits....

Oh, and if this is "Obama's Katrina", then obviously the blame lies with the new mayor and republican Gov. Jindal...right?
(see how silly your words sound when they're on the other foot?) (not you, Hew, but the others who would give GWB a freebie on Katrina)

As soon as this administration starts blaming Bush, we will know who's fault it is..........




rk

Eric Johnson
05-03-2010, 04:21 PM
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/bp_says_oil_flow_from_deepwate.html

http://tinyurl.com/26xh4ob

BP says oil flow from Deepwater Horizon remains unchanged, refuting executive
By Dan Murtaugh
May 03, 2010, 3:12PM

The statement, issued by the company Monday afternoon, refuted a claim made this morning by a company executive that the company had managed to reduce the flow of oil into the Gulf of Mexico by successfully shutting a set of hydraulic shears known as annular rams, helping to clamp the ruptured pipe and block the leaking oil.

"We've significantly cut the flow through the pipe," Jeff Childs said Monday morning at a meeting in Mobile hosted by U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Tuscaloosa. Childs is a deputy incident commander for BP.

The company stated in a release: "BP would like to clarify that, contrary to some media reports, the actions it has taken to date on the blow out preventer have not resulted in any observed reduction in the rate of flow of oil from the MC252 well."

-30-

Franco
05-03-2010, 04:34 PM
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/bp_says_oil_flow_from_deepwate.html

http://tinyurl.com/26xh4ob

BP says oil flow from Deepwater Horizon remains unchanged, refuting executive
By Dan Murtaugh
May 03, 2010, 3:12PM

The statement, issued by the company Monday afternoon, refuted a claim made this morning by a company executive that the company had managed to reduce the flow of oil into the Gulf of Mexico by successfully shutting a set of hydraulic shears known as annular rams, helping to clamp the ruptured pipe and block the leaking oil.

"We've significantly cut the flow through the pipe," Jeff Childs said Monday morning at a meeting in Mobile hosted by U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Tuscaloosa. Childs is a deputy incident commander for BP.

The company stated in a release: "BP would like to clarify that, contrary to some media reports, the actions it has taken to date on the blow out preventer have not resulted in any observed reduction in the rate of flow of oil from the MC252 well."

-30-

I've been trying to confirm that report ever since you first posted it and couldn't find it on any of the New Orleans media outlets. Now, I know why. Hopeful thinking but, I think they can get it done this week!

Here is the latest on areas affected by the spill.
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/gulf_of_mexico_oil_spill_anima.html

dnf777
05-04-2010, 07:16 AM
Franco,
I hope and pray that your calm optimism is warranted, and not just misplaced faith in oil companies! 200,000 gallons per day still gushing with no preconceived plan for such contingencies is not giving me warm fuzzies inside.

Our planned visit to NOLA has been switched from staying in the French Quarter dining in the world's finest restaurants, to scrubbing birds, turtles, or whatever else we can do to help. Frankly, I think those measures are purely symbolic and cathartic for us, rather than actually help lessen the environmental impact.

Hew
05-04-2010, 07:29 AM
Our planned visit to NOLA has been switched from staying in the French Quarter dining in the world's finest restaurants, to scrubbing birds, turtles, or whatever else we can do to help. Frankly, I think those measures are purely symbolic and cathartic for us, rather than actually help lessen the environmental impact.
The Parable of the Starfish

One morning an elderly man was walking on a nearly deserted beach. He came upon a boy surrounded by thousands and thousands of starfish. As eagerly as he could, the youngster was picking them up and throwing them back into the ocean.
Puzzled, the older man looked at the young boy and asked, "Little boy, what are you doing?"
The youth responded without looking up, "I'm trying to save these starfish, sir."
The old man chuckled aloud, and queried, "Son, there are thousands of starfish and only one of you. What difference can you make?"
Holding a starfish in his hand, the boy turned to the man and, gently tossing the starfish into the water, said, "It will make a difference to that one!"

dnf777
05-04-2010, 08:13 AM
Big Man-Hug for Hew!!

Disclaimer: Not responsible for any lost Ovaltine

Henry V
05-04-2010, 11:42 PM
BP warns spill could grow 10 times worse

http://www.startribune.com/nation/92827694.html?elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU

Franco
05-05-2010, 08:28 AM
BP warns spill could grow 10 times worse

http://www.startribune.com/nation/92827694.html?elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU


"What we heard was worst-case scenario, with no good solutions," said a congressional source.

Here is the reality;
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/oil-thomas.html

http://response.restoration.noaa.gov/book_shelf/1913_TMF24-2010-05-04-2100.pdf

subroc
05-05-2010, 11:01 AM
does the obama administration seem more concerned with political damage control than actual control of the damage?

depittydawg
05-05-2010, 11:19 AM
does the obama administration seem more concerned with political damage control than actual control of the damage?

Why would you think that?

Franco
05-05-2010, 11:24 AM
does the obama administration seem more concerned with political damage control than actual control of the damage?



What can a politician do other than worry about getting re-elected? It's not like they are going to put on some workcloths and get thier hands dirty.

There is so much misinformation in the national media, even conflicting reports in the same news sources!

The shroud is on its way from Port Fouchon to the site of the well. They'll try by late today to get it covered. Never been done before and at 5,000 plus feet below sea level, who knows!

road kill
05-05-2010, 11:29 AM
I am shocked!!!:shock:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html



rk

badbullgator
05-05-2010, 11:33 AM
Coast Guard: BP caps 1 of 3 oil leaks
But emergency measure won’t reduce overall flow
updated 32 minutes ago
NEW ORLEANS - BP PLC has managed to cap one of three leaks at a deepwater oil well, but the work was not expected to reduce the overall flow of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, the Coast Guard said.
"It doesn't lessen the flow, it just simplifies the number of leak points they have to address," Coast Guard Petty Officer 1st Class David Mosley said.
"It's a gift of a little bit of time. I'm not resting," U.S. Coast Guard Rear Adm. Mary Landry said.
Story continues below ↓
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BP officials have said that fewer leaks will make it easier to drop a containment box on the breach.
The specially built giant concrete-and-steel box designed to siphon the oil away was expected to arrive on Wednesday.
Slideshow

Oil disaster
View images of the rig explosion and aftermath.
more photos


Crews for contractor Wild Well Control were putting the finishing touches Tuesday on the 100-ton containment dome. A barge at about midday would haul the contraption to the spot 50 miles offshore where a mile-deep gusher from a blown-out undersea well has been spewing at least 210,000 gallons of crude a day into the Gulf for two weeks. BP spokesman John Curry said it would be deployed on the seabed by Thursday.
It's the latest idea that engineers from oil giant BP PLC were trying since an oil rig the company was operating exploded on April 20, killing 11 workers. It sank two days later, when at least 210,000 gallons per day started pouring into the Gulf. BP is in charge of the cleanup and President Barack Obama and many others say the company also is responsible for the costs.
A rainbow sheen of oil has reached land in parts of Louisiana, but the gooey rafts of coagulated crude have yet to come ashore in most places. Forecasts showed the oil wasn't expected to come ashore until at least Thursday.
Will dome work?
In their worst-case scenario, BP executives told members of a congressional committee that up to 2.5 million gallons a day could spill if the leaks worsened, though it would be more like 1.7 million gallons.
Video

Franco
05-05-2010, 11:54 AM
I am shocked!!!:shock:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html



rk

Why would you be shocked?

BP has spent more on R&D of alternative energy sources than any other major oil company. So, they probably agree with the Dems on finding alternatives to fossil fuels.

Why not compare the amounts given to GOP politicians as compared to Dems by the major oil companies and support buisnesses?

depittydawg
05-05-2010, 11:57 AM
What can a politician do other than worry about getting re-elected? It's not like they are going to put on some workcloths and get thier hands dirty.

There is so much misinformation in the national media, even conflicting reports in the same news sources!

The shroud is on its way from Port Fouchon to the site of the well. They'll try by late today to get it covered. Never been done before and at 5,000 plus feet below sea level, who knows!

Sound's like a hollywood script.

depittydawg
05-05-2010, 12:04 PM
I am shocked!!!:shock:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html



rk

I'm not. The trend I've noticed in Corporate money over the last 15 years or so (that's as long as I've watched) is that in the end, whoever wins, gets the most money. Corporations back the winners regardless. They want / need influence. Unfortunately one of the advantages companies and industries compete for now is Political Influence. If we ever elect an independent, he / she will probably lead in corporate donations too.
It was pretty clear once the Primaries were over, that Obama would likely win the Presidency. As it became clearer, the money started rolling in from everywhere. And it will keep coming, until it's clear he might loose.

Henry V
05-05-2010, 10:24 PM
I'm not. The trend I've noticed in Corporate money over the last 15 years or so (that's as long as I've watched) is that in the end, whoever wins, gets the most money. Corporations back the winners regardless. They want / need influence. Unfortunately one of the advantages companies and industries compete for now is Political Influence. If we ever elect an independent, he / she will probably lead in corporate donations too.
It was pretty clear once the Primaries were over, that Obama would likely win the Presidency. As it became clearer, the money started rolling in from everywhere. And it will keep coming, until it's clear he might loose.
Yes, but that is all OK since they are just expressing their freedom of speech rights because they have the same rights as private citizens as affirmed by the non-activist strict constructionist majority of conservative justices on the Supreme Court. :):):)

Eric Johnson
05-06-2010, 09:29 AM
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/despite_admirals_claims_fire_b.html

http://tinyurl.com/28e9rd7

Despite admiral's claims, fire booms that might have lessened oil spill not required equipment

By Ben Raines
May 06, 2010, 5:00AM

Federal officials on Tuesday said BP PLC was responsible for providing fire booms in the aftermath of the Deepwater Horizon rig explosion.

U.S. Coast Guard Rear Admiral Mary Landry answered a question about the lack of such booms by saying "the responsible party is absolutely supposed to have all the resources at his disposal commercially."

But there appears to be nothing in federal law that requires BP or any other oil company to have such booms on hand during drilling or production activities in U.S. waters, despite fire booms being labeled as a primary first-response option in federal documents.

-more-

dnf777
05-08-2010, 08:43 PM
Dammit! The giant dome attempt at controlling the spillage failed.
Lets hope Mother Nature cooperates and allows for more burn-offs, and favorable currents away from delicate coastal areas.

Gerry Clinchy
05-14-2010, 07:46 AM
NY Times today
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14agency.html?th&emc=th

Seems that the bureaucrats routinely override the scientists when it comes to approval for commercial operations in the Gulf.

Might make me appreciate the concerns of health care professionals about how bureaucrats will handle their role in health care under the recently passed legislation.

The Interior Secretary is now going to look into the agency responsible. In this regard it might resonate of similarities to the failings of FEMA that were not recognized until Katrina happened.

YardleyLabs
05-14-2010, 08:22 AM
NY Times today
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14agency.html?th&emc=th

Seems that the bureaucrats routinely override the scientists when it comes to approval for commercial operations in the Gulf.

Might make me appreciate the concerns of health care professionals about how bureaucrats will handle their role in health care under the recently passed legislation.

The Interior Secretary is now going to look into the agency responsible. In this regard it might resonate of similarities to the failings of FEMA that were not recognized until Katrina happened.
Of course, the expressed fear has been that bureaucrats will interfere to restrict or regulate what is done by the private sector. In this case, as is often true in Washington, the actual observation is that industry lobbyists actually have co-opted the regulatory process and turned it into a rubber stamp.

Steve Hester
05-14-2010, 08:26 AM
I'm sure it's Bush's fault, and Obama just inherited it....:rolleyes:

Franco
05-14-2010, 09:14 AM
I heard an estimate this morning that the cleanup will cost BP around 450,000,000. Lawsuits are being filed by thousands of attorneys representing everyone from fisherman to resorts all along the gulf coast. This will cost BP into the billions before all is said and done!

Lets just hope that Top Hat does the job, we should know something soon!

Blackstone
05-14-2010, 09:42 AM
I'm sure it's Bush's fault, and Obama just inherited it....:rolleyes:

I don’t think anyone is trying to blame Bush or Obama for the problem with how this has been regulated. However, if you read the NY Times article cited, you can see the abuse was ramped during the previous administration and has continued into this administration. It does not appear much was changing until this disaster.

“Responding to the accusations that agency scientists were being silenced, Ms. Barkoff added, “Under the previous administration, there was a pattern of suppressing science in decisions, and we are working very hard to change the culture and empower scientists in the Department of the Interior.”

M&K's Retrievers
05-16-2010, 11:57 AM
I believe 60 minutes is having a piece on the spill/gusher tonight..............

Oh boy! Can't wait for that. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

JDogger
05-16-2010, 12:13 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37171468/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times//

Apparently not all of the oil is rising to the surface. This could have a very long-term, widespread impact on parts of the Carribbean. :(

JD

duk4me
05-16-2010, 03:17 PM
Its all sickening like being kicked in the b@lls. I don't think we know the long term ramifications of this. Somebody's head should roll. There is no excuse for the lack of being prepared for a situation like this. This isn't a natural disaster somebody screwed up.:(

Buzz
05-17-2010, 07:56 AM
Oh boy! Can't wait for that. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


Yea, I can't stand that they actually do investigative reporting.... ;-)

menmon
05-17-2010, 09:58 AM
A few weeks ago, I was being promised that I would be fishing and hunting as though nothing happened. I'm sure the super pro business right was telling you this, so that no one would take away the offshore drilling rights.

I'm pro business but not at this cost. Offshore drilling will continue, but this is a game changer. It's ashame that it takes a disaster such as this and a bunch of trial lawyers going for their jugular to make them take the necessary precautions to prevent this, but it does.

You have to be on the screwed side of the equation to understand the value of a good trial lawyer and to quit voting away you legal rights. It is real easy to jump on that band wagon that trial lawyers just run up cost if you never need one. I wonder how those fishermen and shrimpers will vote now?

Franco
05-17-2010, 10:32 AM
Why wait when you can fish the marshes on the east side of the river now? That would be the same side as the spill in case you are not familiar with the area.
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/bob_marshall_answers_questions.html


"I wonder how those fishermen and shrimpers will vote now?"

They will vote Republican as they always do.


Also, with the tube having been inserted into the larger leak, estimates are anywhere from 20% to 70% of the spewing oil is being directed in waiting tankers.

mjh345
05-17-2010, 10:36 AM
You have to be on the screwed side of the equation to understand the value of a good trial lawyer and to quit voting away you legal rights. It is real easy to jump on that band wagon that trial lawyers just run up cost if you never need one. I wonder how those fishermen and shrimpers will vote now?

That is one of the best quotes ever on here.
Big business[Insurance, Doctors, Product manufactures, Pharmacuetical, Big oil, Banking etc] have established cozy relationships with regulators to where it is on the honor system. These people have proven they have no honor and can't be trusted to self regulate.

These large industries have also used their substantial money on K street to buy influence in Washington to due an end run to limit liability and responsibility when their actions result in injury, death, financial meltdowns, and environmental disasters through so called "tort reform".

This gives them the best of both worlds in that they can self regulate and choose to operate irresponsibly. Then nwhen that irresponsible operation results in a disaster they can try to avoid the liability they have caused.

Sadly it likewise leaves the average citizen with the WORST of both worlds

menmon
05-17-2010, 10:37 AM
Why wait when you can fish the marshes on the east side of the river now? That would be the same side as the spill in case you are not familiar with the area.
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/bob_marshall_answers_questions.html


"I wonder how those fishermen and shrimpers will vote now?"

They will vote Republican as they always do.


Also, with the tube having been inserted into the larger leak, estimates are anywhere from 20% to 70% of the spewing oil is being directed in waiting tankers.


Where is the 30% - 80% that is not going into the tankers going?

Franco
05-17-2010, 11:33 AM
Where is the 30% - 80% that is not going into the tankers going?



Most of the escaping leak is being hit with a chemical dispersent. That would be those underwater plumes that have been reported. Those plumes will eventually break up as the move out to the ocean. The dispensent used is not only Federally approved but also have no known long lasting negative impact.

Oil not hit with the dispersent is coming to the surface and being rounded up with booms.

Some of the oil can be burned.

The rest that is floating on the surface, microbes are being used to eat the oil.

Yes, this is a bad situation. Hardly one that will have any long lasting affects on the eco-system. Just look at Prince William Sound today! As pristeen as it ever was. And, the situation is the gulf isn't nearly as bad.

Even if oil continues to leak till they get the new well drilled, the eastside marshes will be full of fish come the end of the year.

Saftey record has been awesome for years. One major accident among thousands of wells drilled! You can bet that Blowout Preventers will be more closely monitored in the future.

menmon
05-17-2010, 12:38 PM
Most of the escaping leak is being hit with a chemical dispersent. That would be those underwater plumes that have been reported. Those plumes will eventually break up as the move out to the ocean. The dispensent used is not only Federally approved but also have no known long lasting negative impact.

Oil not hit with the dispersent is coming to the surface and being rounded up with booms.

Some of the oil can be burned.

The rest that is floating on the surface, microbes are being used to eat the oil.

Yes, this is a bad situation. Hardly one that will have any long lasting affects on the eco-system. Just look at Prince William Sound today! As pristeen as it ever was. And, the situation is the gulf isn't nearly as bad.

Even if oil continues to leak till they get the new well drilled, the eastside marshes will be full of fish come the end of the year.

Saftey record has been awesome for years. One major accident among thousands of wells drilled! You can bet that Blowout Preventers will be more closely monitored in the future.

I agree with the safety record and I hope you are right on all the rest.

I think the wakeup call here is that they did not know how to deal with this type of disaster, because deepwater drilling is for the most part new. When I was a kid the tankers would spring leaks and then they made them double hull them and you very seldom hear about an oil spill.

This is what needs to occur here. They need to double hull them.

Buzz
05-17-2010, 11:21 PM
Shepard Smith can lay the smack down pretty well...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s-KHDmNqlQ&feature=player_embedded

Henry V
05-18-2010, 08:17 AM
Franco, I’ll give you credit for being full of hope. Here are some responses without the rose colored glasses.


Most of the escaping leak is being hit with a chemical dispersent. That would be those underwater plumes that have been reported. Those plumes will eventually break up as the move out to the ocean. The dispensent used is not only Federally approved but also have no known long lasting negative impact.

Another story on the huge plumes
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0516/Gulf-oil-spill-real-disaster-might-be-lurking-beneath-the-surface
Nice to see that BP was permitted to use some of the less effective and most environmental risky dispersants.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0517/Gulf-oil-spill-Has-BP-turned-corner-with-siphon-success.
Interesting attitude, it will just go “out to the ocean”. Yes, exactly, just like the tons and tons of garbage and sewage that we dump there. Out of sight is out of mind is the American way. Maybe this oil will eventually make its way to the great pacific garbage dump (http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jul/10-the-worlds-largest-dump).

Besides, as has been said here, oil is natural kinda like methyl mercury, arsenic, snake venom, etc. Nothing to worry about. And, of course if the chemical dispersants are government approved it must be safe, just like agent orange, asbestos, various recalled chemicals, and all the permitted oil drilling operations. The government also says CO2 is a pollutant.


Oil not hit with the dispersent is coming to the surface and being rounded up with booms.
Some of the oil can be burned.

Can you find me some estimates of how much is being recovered through these efforts and explain how the oil just disappears and is not a problem when it burns. The siphon tube is getting 20% as of yesterday.


The rest that is floating on the surface, microbes are being used to eat the oil.
Which method is recovering the most, booms, burning, or microbes. How many microbes are being applied to this huge freaking spill? How effective are they?


Yes, this is a bad situation. Hardly one that will have any long lasting affects on the eco-system. Just look at Prince William Sound today! As pristeen as it ever was. And, the situation is the gulf isn't nearly as bad.
I am not sure you want to make this comparison and you may want to check your facts.
http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/Quarterly/jas2001/feature_jas01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/02/09-5
PWS will never be the same. Oil is still there.


Even if oil continues to leak till they get the new well drilled, the eastside marshes will be full of fish come the end of the year.
Pure speculation. You may be right you may be wrong. There are also many more places besides the eastside marshes to worry about.


Saftey record has been awesome for years. One major accident among thousands of wells drilled! You can bet that Blowout Preventers will be more closely monitored in the future.
Wh yweren't they being closely monitored before this disaster? The industries complete failure to maintain this incredibly important piece of equipment which is vital to preventing disasters like just these should give us a lot of hope for the future. BP’s less than stellar record - http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2010/05/bps-less-than-stellar-record/39838/.

As the BP CEO said "compared to the volume of water in the gulf, this is a small spill". You can't make it up.

huntinman
05-18-2010, 08:25 AM
Shepard Smith can lay the smack down pretty well...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s-KHDmNqlQ&feature=player_embedded


Shepard Smith is the biggest idiot on TV. Did you see his breakdown during Katrina? Fox had to give him a vacation to get his head together after that. The man has some major issues...

gman0046
05-18-2010, 08:41 AM
Franco, you ought to get a job in BP's Public Relations Department. All your posts are nothing but positive BS about the great job BP is doing to mediate something that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Obviously you didn't see the BP employee on 60 Minutes last Sunday. Like many Americans I'm concerned about the environmental impact which was caused by BP's negligence.

Unless I missed something, did Shephard Smith say something about the oil spill that wasn't true?

Franco
05-18-2010, 01:16 PM
Over 68,000 oil wells have been drilled in the Gulf Of Mexico. This is the first major accident!

I would suggest that you quite listening to reporters and start listening to Marine Biologist.

I liken the reporting hysteria similar to the reaction of Arizona's new Immigration law.

We need to continue to drill offshore as we work toward energy alternatives. That or continue to import Muslim oil!

P S

I'll wait till the investigation is complete before pointing any fingers.

duk4me
05-18-2010, 02:14 PM
Over 68,000 oil wells have been drilled in the Gulf Of Mexico. This is the first major accident!

I would suggest that you quite listening to reporters and start listening to Marine Biologist.

I liken the reporting hysteria similar to the reaction of Arizona's new Immigration law.

We need to continue to drill offshore as we work toward energy alternatives. That or continue to import Muslim oil!

P S

I'll wait till the investigation is complete before pointing any fingers.

Franco,

This is the first post you've made that made me less anxious about the situation.

Remember mad cow disease and Oprah? Well maybe they are the same thing, I digress, dang near bankrupted the cattle industry. Remember bird flu? Dang near bankrupted the chicken industry, including me. Remember swine flu? We're all gonna die.

I hope you are correct in you positive outlook and the media is sensationalizing again.

Still though I find it disheartening that we were not better prepared for such and inevitable happening. My hope is that this is not as bad as it sounds and the next time it happens we will be prepared to respond in a timely manner.

Franco
05-18-2010, 02:37 PM
Franco,

This is the first post you've made that made me less anxious about the situation.

Remember mad cow disease and Oprah? Well maybe they are the same thing, I digress, dang near bankrupted the cattle industry. Remember bird flu? Dang near bankrupted the chicken industry, including me. Remember swine flu? We're all gonna die.

I hope you are correct in you positive outlook and the media is sensationalizing again.

Still though I find it disheartening that we were not better prepared for such and inevitable happening. My hope is that this is not as bad as it sounds and the next time it happens we will be prepared to respond in a timely manner.

Thanks Tim.

Cooler heads will prevail. No one wants what is happening. Not BP or anyone affected by this situation. All involved with the drilling will pay! And, it is situations like this that will lead to better prevention. Maybe things were lax with no major leaks after 68,000 wells have been drilled in the gulf and we learn from mistakes.

It is times like these that I learned a long time ago that it is important to listen to the folks that know whats going on as opposed to reporters who are paid to sensationalize everything!

gman0046
05-18-2010, 03:22 PM
Franco, 68,000 wells doesn't mean anything when our wetlands, fishing industries, wildlife, and pristine beaches are destroyed by BP's negligence. It only takes one to destroy many ways of life. Before this is over this may the largest environmental disaster in the history of this country. I know Lafayette, La. is no where near the coast and any coastal damage won't affect you too badly but my investment and value of my coastal home in Panama City Beach, Florida is directly related to the quality of our environment. Maybe you are listening to the wrong Marine Biologists as many have stated this could ruin the Gulf Coast fishing industry for years to come. Duk4me, do you think you'll still be eating Gulf Shrimp after this is over? It's not only those involved with drilling that will pay. We all will pay.

Franco
05-18-2010, 03:41 PM
Franco, 68,000 wells doesn't mean anything when our wetlands, fishing industries, wildlife, and pristine beaches are destroyed by BP's negligence. It only takes one to destroy many ways of life. Before this is over this may the largest environmental disaster in the history of this country. I know Lafayette, La. is no where near the coast and any coastal damage won't affect you too badly but my investment and value of my coastal home in Panama City Beach, Florida is directly related to the quality of our environment. Maybe you are listening to the wrong Marine Biologists as many have stated this could ruin the Gulf Coast fishing industry for years to come. Duk4me, do you think you'll still be eating Gulf Shrimp after this is over? It's not only those involved with drilling that will pay. We all will pay.

Gulf seafood and recreation is very much a part of the Cajun Riviera. Anything that happens to our seafood effects Lafayette and the region. We have over 400 restaurants here, most serve seasfood. We have hundreds of fisherman from Delcamp to Cameron. Gulf fishing is just as big here as south of New Orleans. I know, I spent 50 years in New Orleans. My opinion, you are over-reacting. This will not be the end of our marshes, fishing, seafood, beaches.

Anyone that wants the straight poop on all of this should listen to wwl radio on-line at www.wwl.com (http://www.wwl.com) from 9am - 4pm daily. Non-stop coverage out of New Orleans with everyone from biologist to zoologist to drilling experts.

This is a good read from a Mobile, Alabama newpaper's website.
http://blog.al.com/press-register-commentary/2010/05/the_coast_is_open_for_business.html

YardleyLabs
05-18-2010, 04:13 PM
Gulf seafood and recreation is very much a part of the Cajun Riviera. Anything that happens to our seafood effects Lafayette and the region. We have over 400 restaurants here, most serve seasfood. We have hundreds of fisherman from Delcamp to Cameron. Gulf fishing is just as big here as south of New Orleans. I know, I spent 50 years in New Orleans. My opinion, you are over-reacting. This will not be the end of our marshes, fishing, seafood, beaches.

Anyone that wants the straight poop on all of this should listen to wwl radio on-line at www.wwl.com (http://www.wwl.com) from 9am - 4pm daily. Non-stop coverage out of New Orleans with everyone from biologist to zoologist to drilling experts.

This is a good read from a Mobile, Alabama newpaper's website.
http://blog.al.com/press-register-commentary/2010/05/the_coast_is_open_for_business.html
Frank,

I hope you are right. Unfortunately, it will be months and even years before we know the full impact. We are used to seeing the oil soaked birds on the tar stained beaches. This spill is not that kind. However, it seems like no one knows what to make of the deep water plumes of oil that are happening now, and that the science needed to predict the future simply doesn't exist. It's a pretty big bet with no upside for any of us.

Henry V
05-18-2010, 04:43 PM
60 minutes has a great series of stories.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/16/60minutes/main6490197.shtml?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

Deep water drilling is a high risk, high rewards endeavor. There is no excuse for the conditions of the BOP or the apparent fact that BP officials directed the drilling crew to short-cut the final stages of their operations.

Franco
05-18-2010, 04:49 PM
60 minutes has a great series of stories.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/16/60minutes/main6490197.shtml?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

Deep water drilling is a high risk, high rewards endeavor. There is no excuse for the conditions of the BOP or the apparent fact that BP officials directed the drilling crew to short-cut the final stages of their operations.

I agree. I didn't see the CBS story but, the fact that BP refused to put the drilling mud down the hole has been a story for the last couple weeks. The drilling company, Transocean suggested it but was turned down by BP.

gman0046
05-18-2010, 05:22 PM
Franco, I can't believe it. You are finally admitting that BP may be at fault. It's amazing the devastation already wreaked upon your state that you refuse to acknowledge. Just saw a segment on NBC Nightly News about Louisiana that will turn your stomach. Congress today made BP release photos of the oil pouring out of the well they previously would not release. Experts are now convinced its much worse then BP has previously reported. I think it's time to remove the rose colored glasses and admit to the devastation they have inflicted on the Gulf. God only knows how long it will take for the marine and coastal communities to recover. The Florida Keys already have tar balls washing up on their beaches. How can anyone in their right mind defend BP?

Franco
05-19-2010, 06:41 AM
How 'bout Lt. John Dunbar's idea, not to shabby!
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/kevin_costners_idea_for_cleani.html

Henry V
05-19-2010, 07:35 AM
How 'bout Lt. John Dunbar's idea, not to shabby!
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/kevin_costners_idea_for_cleani.html
Interesting idea. I wonder whether the dispersents make this device much less effective.
Glad to see that BP is pursuing all options but there should have been a much better plan than "oh crap, the one device we had to prevent this failed, what do we do now, I know, let's start a facebook page and hotline for folks to submit their ideas"

duk4me
05-19-2010, 01:26 PM
Franco, 68,000 wells doesn't mean anything when our wetlands, fishing industries, wildlife, and pristine beaches are destroyed by BP's negligence. It only takes one to destroy many ways of life. Before this is over this may the largest environmental disaster in the history of this country. I know Lafayette, La. is no where near the coast and any coastal damage won't affect you too badly but my investment and value of my coastal home in Panama City Beach, Florida is directly related to the quality of our environment. Maybe you are listening to the wrong Marine Biologists as many have stated this could ruin the Gulf Coast fishing industry for years to come. Duk4me, do you think you'll still be eating Gulf Shrimp after this is over? It's not only those involved with drilling that will pay. We all will pay.

I don't know if I will or won't. I just know that the media generally overplays things to gain attention and sale advertising. I am appalled not that this could happen but that there was no immediate response to control it.

BTW in a later post of yours about tar balls washing up in Florida yahoo is reporting that they have been tested and are not related to this spill.

One thing I do know your property value will be negatively affected the same as bird flu affected my livelyhood. I hope in all sincerety for your sake that this is not as serious as we have been led to believe and the value will rebound quickly. Good luck.

Franco
05-20-2010, 03:52 PM
Just saw a piece on TV with the Governor of Louisiana out in the marshes south of New Orleans showing all the oil in the marshes............. the media that was with him said it was expected to kill the vegetation within days.........

What is the radio station in New Orleans saying about that???

They were with him broadcasting live. You can view the podcast on thier website.

dnf777
05-20-2010, 06:25 PM
$#it! this is getting worse and worse each day.
Those clips of oil-drenched marsh grass with oil lapping in the waves tears me up.
They better get on top of this FAST. If if stopped right now, the oil already spilled is a disaster in itself.....but its still pouring out at unknown rates.

gman0046
05-20-2010, 06:33 PM
What is Obongo doing about it???????

Franco
05-20-2010, 06:36 PM
The oil spill is a disaster.

But, those that live down here know that the U S Army Corp Of Engineers has done more to destroy the marshes in south Louisiana than 50 major oil spills.

They have dredge the marshes to the point that saltwater intrusion has killed all vegitation other than plants that will grow is brackish or saltwater.

That is why Louisiana has a new oil royality agreement where 37% of the money paid for offshore leases will go towards the rebuilding of the marshes in Louisiana. It took Katrina for the Feds to come to terms with the fact that they destroyed our natural protection.

The Ms River levees will be perforated to allow alluvial deposits in the marsh as well as dredging out in the gulf pumping more sand into the delta marshes. Cost will be several billion and will help stem the tide of coastal errosion initiated by the Corp.

Henry V
05-20-2010, 11:24 PM
The oil spill is a disaster.

But, those that live down here know that the U S Army Corp Of Engineers has done more to destroy the marshes in south Louisiana than 50 major oil spills.

They have dredge the marshes to the point that saltwater intrusion has killed all vegitation other than plants that will grow is brackish or saltwater.

That is why Louisiana has a new oil royality agreement where 37% of the money paid for offshore leases will go towards the rebuilding of the marshes in Louisiana. It took Katrina for the Feds to come to terms with the fact that they destroyed our natural protection.

The Ms River levees will be perforated to allow alluvial deposits in the marsh as well as dredging out in the gulf pumping more sand into the delta marshes. Cost will be several billion and will help stem the tide of coastal errosion initiated by the Corp.
Why did the Corps allow this? It didn't have anything to do with oil and other aspects of "economic development" did it? We humans are great at being short sighted until there is a disaster and then trying to blame someone else instead of looking in the mirror.

Besides, if those 40 square miles of coastal wetlands that we have been losing each year for decades down there were still in place that would just make this disaster worse. It is good they are gone so that they can't be damaged by this oil spill. ;)

Franco
05-21-2010, 07:53 PM
Why did the Corps allow this?

;)

Several reasons but primarily to justify thier existence in southeast La. Maybe they liked the food, music and joi de verve.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/05/wetlands_restoration_project_i.html
With additional lease royalites coming to La., major plans have been in place for a massive rebuilding of the 100's of miles of coastline. Rebuilding some marsh as far out in the gulf as dozen miles. Where it use to be before the Corp.

Need to get that well shutdown!!! I'm going to predict right here on RTF that they can get it done by COB Tuesday.5/25.

mjh345
05-21-2010, 11:15 PM
Franco, it looks to me that your attempts to underestimate the risks of this oil spill are FAR off base

Henry V
05-25-2010, 09:36 AM
Here is a good description and animation of the top kill method to stop the underwater gusher. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6505#more. scroll up a bit and there is the video.

dnf777
05-27-2010, 12:11 PM
This is spooky! Just heard an amazing news clip during lunch. The bay of campeche spill of 1979 was eerily similar to the current spill...so much so, when news bytes of '79 are juxtaposed to current reports, it sounds verbatim the same! Only thing that was different was the name of the company, which changed its name after the spill. guess what they're new name is? Transocean!

Failed BOP, stuff it with cement and mud, and in the end, it took 9 months and two relief wells to reduce flow enough to allow capping.

I'm trying to find this link, if there is one to the story and news clips.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#37368377

A little long, but amazing!

YardleyLabs
05-27-2010, 12:43 PM
It will be interesting to see how this develops....

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/9nkay4cwfucll_ldm9-8ow.gif

Franco
05-27-2010, 01:48 PM
It will be interesting to see how this develops....

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/9nkay4cwfucll_ldm9-8ow.gif

And, as the price of gas at the pump gets closer to $4. per gallon, the graph will reverese itself.

Franco
05-27-2010, 01:58 PM
Seems odd that they didn't have a simple plan for what if.

Pete

There is nothing simple about drilling at 5,000 feet below sea level. That's why the have BOP's.

Pouring drill mud into the hole has been around a long time and I am perplexed as to why they didn't try this sooner other than...there is nothing simple at 5,000 feet below sea level.

Buzz
05-27-2010, 02:14 PM
There is nothing simple about drilling at 5,000 feet below sea level. That's why the have BOP's.

Pouring drill mud into the hole has been around a long time and I am perplexed as to why they didn't try this sooner other than...there is nothing simple at 5,000 feet below sea level.


Having been involved in solving some all hands on deck urgent and complicated problems, I can only imagine that everyone has been working at break neck speed getting this attempt out of the gates.

I guess the thing that chaps my ass is that accidents like this are so devastating, I'm wondering why something like this isn't staged and ready to be sprung into action just in case.

I like the description "pouring mud into the hole." Mud forced down a hole by a 30,000 horsepower pump isn't exactly "pouring."

Franco
05-27-2010, 02:17 PM
Having been involved in solving some all hands on deck urgent and complicated problems, I can only imagine that everyone has been working at break neck speed getting this attempt out of the gates.

I guess the thing that chaps my ass is that accidents like this are so devastating, I'm wondering why something like this isn't staged and ready to be sprung into action just in case.

I like the description "pouring mud into the hole." Mud forced down a hole by a 30,000 horsepower pump isn't exactly "pouring."

Excuse em moi...injecting mud.;-)

depittydawg
05-27-2010, 04:32 PM
And, as the price of gas at the pump gets closer to $4. per gallon, the graph will reverese itself.

I take a different view to the whole "price of energy" debate. As the price of gas (and other energies) increases, demand for alternative increase. Best thing that could happen to the US economy long term is 8 dollar a gallon gasoline. It would create instant investment in new technologies and the development of new products. Those investments would also likely be made HERE in the US, not some far off land where we get the added bonus of spending a trillion dollars a year to protect it. It would also create an instant boom to local economies. If the true cost of transportation were passed on to the consumer, local products all of a sudden can compete with anything in the world on price. A local factory becomes a good strategic decision for a large Corporation.
What has been the engine behind EVERY economic expansion in US history?

Hint Hint: New Products and New Technologies

Henry V
05-27-2010, 04:52 PM
And, as the price of gas at the pump gets closer to $4. per gallon, the graph will reverese itself.
Unfortunate but probably true. Even at $4, fuel is a bargain and does not come close to covering a full cost accounting.

Has anyone else noticed that the price of gasoline has dropped $0.20 or more in the past few weeks. I always thought that the price went up during a "seasonal change in formulas".
Of course, this price drop can't have anything to do with the oil companies trying to appease consumers during this disastrous spill. It must be market based.;)

Gerry Clinchy
05-27-2010, 07:34 PM
Quote from the POTUS press conference today:


President Barack Obama defensively and sometimes testily insisted on Thursday that his administration, not oil giant BP, was calling the shots in responding to the worst oil spill in the nation's history.

"I take responsibility. It is my job to make sure this thing is shut down," Obama declared at a news conference in the East Room of the White House. The Gulf of Mexico oil spill dominated the hour-long session.


"The American people should know that from the moment this disaster began, the federal government has been in charge of the response effort," Obama said. He was reacting to criticism that his administration had been slow to act and had left BP in charge of plugging the leak.

If the Federal govt has been in charge since the beginning, then that might explain why it has been so screwed up :-) [Sorry, I just couldn't resist.]

Franco
05-27-2010, 07:44 PM
Unfortunate but probably true. Even at $4, fuel is a bargain and does not come close to covering a full cost accounting.

Has anyone else noticed that the price of gasoline has dropped $0.20 or more in the past few weeks. I always thought that the price went up during a "seasonal change in formulas".
Of course, this price drop can't have anything to do with the oil companies trying to appease consumers during this disastrous spill. It must be market based.;)

I have and figured that it is a Public Relations move. Not a great time for the oil companies to piss even more people off. Normally at this time of year they know people are driving more and a great time to gouge.

However, much of the blame for high gasoline/diesel cost at the pump is due to government's failure to say no to the investment banks. They control our Federally elected officials and make billions by buying and selling gas futues over and over again.

M&K's Retrievers
05-27-2010, 11:03 PM
[B]I guess BP doesn't consider running out of mud to be a "significant event to report"...............



.

How do you know this?

ducknwork
05-28-2010, 06:14 AM
"I take responsibility. It is my job to make sure this thing is shut down," Obama declared at a news conference in the East Room of the White House. The Gulf of Mexico oil spill dominated the hour-long session.

He must believe that the hole is about to get fixed and he's trying to swoop in and grab his 'credit'.

Hew
05-28-2010, 07:55 AM
Of course, this price drop can't have anything to do with the oil companies trying to appease consumers during this disastrous spill. It must be market based.;)
Your tinfoil slip is showing.

Cody Covey
05-28-2010, 11:14 AM
They were saying from the first day this happened that it wasn't going to affect oil prices. This wasn't a production rig and so losing the oil from it isn't reducing supply any.

Henry V
05-28-2010, 12:58 PM
Your tinfoil slip is showing.
Damn, I need a new hat. Here is an article that may be of interest. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/drivers-may-enjoy-lower-gas-prices-through-june-2010-05-27?link=kiosk

Gas prices, which in general follow crude oil futures prices, are bucking a historic trend of peaking in early May and holding through July as production costs rise in tandem with the temperatures.
and

"I've been surprised by the rate of the decline" in crude oil prices, said Troy Green, AAA spokesman. "The price of crude and the price of gasoline are being driven independent of the traditional supply-and-demand fundamentals. Right now the primary driver is investor pessimism."
You can go with the "investor pessimism" angle. I will continue to believe that some other factors are at work.

Franco
05-28-2010, 01:01 PM
Really??????



On 5/26 they started the Top Kill. By the monring of 5/27 the only thing coming out of the well was drill mud being pushed up by natural gas.

Last night they started with a heavier but, harder to implement drill mud.

Don't you have a news source where you live?
http://www.wwl.com/Video----Top-Kill---to-take-2-more-days/7345841

Oh, shouldn't you be monitoring the Huffington Post? The posters are saying some really ugly things about your boy, Obama.

dnf777
05-28-2010, 06:13 PM
the longer this goes on, and the more I see and understand of this BOP and the risers that are leaking......I'm getting this sick feeling in my stomach that the people who are the "experts" may be scratching their heads and privately knowing that there isn't a damn thing they can reasonably expect to shut this flow off.

Edit: latest update lends creedence to the above:

AP - A risky procedure to stop the oil spewing into the Gulf of Mexico has yet to show much success, and BP is considering scrapping it in favor of a different method to contain the worst oil spill in U.S. history, an executive said Saturday. (5/29/10)

duk4me
05-29-2010, 05:55 PM
the longer this goes on, and the more I see and understand of this BOP and the risers that are leaking......I'm getting this sick feeling in my stomach that the people who are the "experts" may be scratching their heads and privately knowing that there isn't a damn thing they can reasonably expect to shut this flow off.

Edit: latest update lends creedence to the above:

AP - A risky procedure to stop the oil spewing into the Gulf of Mexico has yet to show much success, and BP is considering scrapping it in favor of a different method to contain the worst oil spill in U.S. history, an executive said Saturday. (5/29/10)

As much as I distrust the media, which I have stated , I think Franco is wrong on this one its a total FU and its a long time from over. Sorry Franco but this is a bad deal.:(

depittydawg
05-29-2010, 06:09 PM
As much as I distrust the media, which I have stated , I think Franco is wrong on this one its a total FU and its a long time from over. Sorry Franco but this is a bad deal.:(

The thing that is beginning to disturb me a lot is that every day now we get press releases from internal BP documents that show they had trouble and many warnings at this site before the blow up. Such is usually the case with industrial accidents. When push comes to shove in our Corporate World, safety and environment often get pushed aside in response to the pressure of mandated Production Performance. I'm sure BP is no different that XOM, or CVX etc. That accidents and incidents will occur is a given. The real question to be asked now is how do we expedite the transition of the World economy away from fossil fuel dependency? The technologies are there. All that is required is incentive and investment. Since the US still accounts for about one third of the total consumption we have to quit being laggards and start being leaders in moving away from fossil fuels.

Franco
05-30-2010, 07:23 AM
As much as I distrust the media, which I have stated , I think Franco is wrong on this one its a total FU and its a long time from over. Sorry Franco but this is a bad deal.:(

Just trying to stay positive and optimistic.

YardleyLabs
05-30-2010, 10:40 AM
Just trying to stay positive and optimistic.
I'll join you in that.

Sometimes we define every issue so much in political terms that we blind ourselves to reality or we choose to distort reality because we are unwilling to accept the consequences of facing it directly.

In systems work I learned the hard way that very small issues can become major over extended periods. Memory that is claimed by the program and then not freed up. Logging systems that write small files to record errors but never remove the files created. Values that are coded implicitly or explicitly as constants even when they may prove to be variable over time. Systems are built based on the operating systems and applications that exist at the time of development without provision for for updates as these environmental factors change.

Generally, systems are built with the thought that they will be in use for a period of time much shorter than their actual life. Temporary or one off systems are built with a lot of shortcuts since they aill be used so little. However, I have built several such systems that remained in use ten years or more later. Most importantly, systems are built to address the most important issues in the most common contexts. Crashes are caused by the least important issues in the most unusual contexts. A system capable of handling these correctly costs more than ten times as much as one that addresses only the most common and still delivers 90% of the benefits. As a consequence, most systems are designed as a compromise -- cost of development is controlled by leaving the holes in place. Sometimes the holes are known. Sometimes they only become apparent later. However, it is always clear that no one will pay the cost of filling all the holes before a system in placed in production.

Because we are human we discount the risk of improbable events. Unfortunately, in reality, if any activity continues log enough the improbable will happen. Given enough nuclear reactors, there will be a time when we will face a nuclear accident. Given enough undersea drilling we will face what we are facing now. Given pollution of the air or the water or the land that continues at a rate faster than is cleaned up either naturally or through deliberate efforts, we will run out of even the most "infinite" resources. It's just a matter of time.

Not all disasters can be made better. We operate under a regulatory fiction, sustained by complicity of the industry, government officials, and the public that only want to hear that we can "drill, baby, drill" or "pollute, baby, pollute" and never have to pay the piper. BP submitted plans indicating that it was prepared to handle disasters bigger than what we now face without difficulty. Obviously, what it really "meant" was that it could conceivably handle such a disaster under the most optimistic of circumstances, none of which apply for a well drilled one mile below the surface. I suspect that the same optimism underlies plans submitted by other producers as well. Regulators reviewed those plans with minimum interference because the objective was to help the process work, not to prevent action. It was an exploratory well, not a production one. What's the big deal. It did its job. It was ready to be shut down. Now it's just a cost. Do it quickly. All human reactions. And the piper has now come to be paid.....

The problem with unmitigated disasters is that sometimes they cannot be mitigated. I hope that doesn't prove to be the case here. Nobody knows what the long term effects will be of the leakage that has occurred already. The reality is that we may be looking at the same level of leakage continuing for the next 2-4 months and we know even less about the damage that will cause over the next 10, 20, 30 or more years. If we continue this form of drilling, we can rest assured that this will not be the last time we face a major disaster.

dnf777
05-30-2010, 10:56 AM
Jeff,
That's been my fear.....not that Obama or BP could or should be doing more....but that there's NOTHING TO DO. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the upper level meetings. I bet they're more PR brainstorming sessions, "what appears like a plausible attempt we can put out there while this thing burns itself out???"

I like to remain optimistic also, and that BP guy Stuttle is very good at calming and reassuring, but at Carville put it, everything he's said has turned out to be false, events leading up to the explosion are appearing more and more like negligence and criminal, there was NO plan for this because they chose to believe it could never happen, even though the EXACT same thing happened to the EXACT same company (operating under a different name) 30 years ago.
(carville said the first, the rest is my rant)
Stuttle is slick as $#it on a doorknob, and I suspect we're gonna see far more outrage from Cajun country when his charm wears off.

Eric Johnson
05-30-2010, 12:14 PM
You might be interested to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemantics

The first book by John Gall is now a classic reference in systems study. For instance:

"The Generalized Uncertainty Principle: Systems display antics. (Complicated systems produce unexpected outcomes. The total behavior of large systems cannot be predicted.)"

I believe that John Gall was a physician.

Eric

dnf777
05-30-2010, 01:26 PM
You might be interested to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemantics

The first book by John Gall is now a classic reference in systems study. For instance:

"The Generalized Uncertainty Principle: Systems display antics. (Complicated systems produce unexpected outcomes. The total behavior of large systems cannot be predicted.)"

I believe that John Gall was a physician.

Eric

LMAO!!
That is great stuff....although I couldn't figure out if he was referring to mechanical systems or human systems (ie GOVERNMENT)! Applies equally as well to both on every point!

road kill
05-30-2010, 01:29 PM
LMAO!!
That is great stuff....although I couldn't figure out if he was referring to mechanical systems or human systems (ie GOVERNMENT)! Applies equally as well to both on every point!


Wouldn't both apply?

rk

Eric Johnson
05-30-2010, 03:50 PM
It applies to everything.

I had his first book but it got destroyed in the house fire and I'd completely forgotten about it until today. It's a book that if you start underlining the important stuff, you underline everything.

Eric

Sue Kiefer
05-30-2010, 05:04 PM
On to "Plan G"
See lastest media.
Sue

duk4me
05-31-2010, 11:08 AM
On to "Plan G"
See lastest media.
Sue

It even gets better, now its hurricane season.:rolleyes:

depittydawg
05-31-2010, 11:40 AM
It even gets better, now its hurricane season.:rolleyes:

This could get ugly. I'm imagining Katrina, with oil. Sure hope it doesn't happen. Now they're saying openly this is the biggest spill in US history. Surpassing even the Valdez. And still no end in sight.

dnf777
05-31-2010, 04:04 PM
I may be all alone here, but I think a hurricane may help the ecosystem recover more quickly from the oil. Break it up, more surface area for biologic breakdown, the churning effect of waves. What's the theory behind a washing machine and the agitator again?

david gibson
05-31-2010, 04:43 PM
I may be all alone here, but I think a hurricane may help the ecosystem recover more quickly from the oil. Break it up, more surface area for biologic breakdown, the churning effect of waves. What's the theory behind a washing machine and the agitator again?

i have that thought as well, but the other side of that dirty coin is the 10-25 foot storm surges pushing all that oil even farther inland. yeah, i hear ya that thinning and dispersing aids in volatilization and natural microbial breakdown of the oil. i feel that is very true, but the sheer volume of this now starts to take this to a different level, especially since like 99% of all this oil is still offshore. alaska was a different animal - more distinct rocky coastlines dotted by occasional sandy beaches. the gulf is all sandy fronts with ten times more shorelines of marshes with delicate salt grasses and oyster reefs behind them in the back bays. i see pluses and minuses all over the place and no one really knows what will happen till it happens - except that this is going to suck big time. a storm "in the right location" could alter currents enough to be a benefit, but the gulf is a big place and the track of any given storm is too much of a gamble to hang any size hat on.

i have friends that work for BP, but right now BP is far lower than Enron in my book.

"there's no one who wants this thing over more than I do." "Y'know, I'd like my life back"

HE wants HIS life back so he can continue to be a high paid oil exec whilst hundreds of thousands if not millions of cajuns are loosing potentially generations of their livelihoods? so the hole gets plugged, mr. asshole Tony Hayward then gets his life back while La. continues to toil in this cesspool?

i'll tell you what will happen. as soon as that hole is plugged, if not sooner if it drags on too long, the BP board of directors will fire this scurvy dog limey and give him a couple hundred million euros as a parting gift. then mr Hayward will be able to get on with his life in the lap of luxury and be totally free of all these troubles. as a British citizen i bet he will never be held to task, he will just fade away to his yachts and golf courses.

mjh345
05-31-2010, 06:11 PM
i have that thought as well, but the other side of that dirty coin is the 10-25 foot storm surges pushing all that oil even farther inland. yeah, i hear ya that thinning and dispersing aids in volatilization and natural microbial breakdown of the oil. i feel that is very true, but the sheer volume of this now starts to take this to a different level, especially since like 99% of all this oil is still offshore. alaska was a different animal - more distinct rocky coastlines dotted by occasional sandy beaches. the gulf is all sandy fronts with ten times more shorelines of marshes with delicate salt grasses and oyster reefs behind them in the back bays. i see pluses and minuses all over the place and no one really knows what will happen till it happens - except that this is going to suck big time. a storm "in the right location" could alter currents enough to be a benefit, but the gulf is a big place and the track of any given storm is too much of a gamble to hang any size hat on.

i have friends that work for BP, but right now BP is far lower than Enron in my book.

"there's no one who wants this thing over more than I do." "Y'know, I'd like my life back"

HE wants HIS life back so he can continue to be a high paid oil exec whilst hundreds of thousands if not millions of cajuns are loosing potentially generations of their livelihoods? so the hole gets plugged, mr. asshole Tony Hayward then gets his life back while La. continues to toil in this cesspool?

i'll tell you what will happen. as soon as that hole is plugged, if not sooner if it drags on too long, the BP board of directors will fire this scurvy dog limey and give him a couple hundred million euros as a parting gift. then mr Hayward will be able to get on with his life in the lap of luxury and be totally free of all these troubles. as a British citizen i bet he will never be held to task, he will just fade away to his yachts and golf courses.

I've gotta agree with you here David.
Rather than "giving him his life back", we ought to just give him a life sentence

david gibson
05-31-2010, 08:18 PM
I've gotta agree with you here David.
Rather than "giving him his life back", we ought to just give him a life sentence

wow.

wow.

big time wow.

for once you said something that doesn't make me want to wring your neck with one hand.

see?? miracles are possible!!!!!! ;-)

i even took you off of "ignore" for this. please dont make me regret that decision.... ;-)

but on the serious note - i really do despise this man. my good friends who work for BP aside - and there are severalo that are retriever enthusiasts - please find another job.

ducknwork
06-01-2010, 06:42 AM
I may be all alone here, but I think a hurricane may help the ecosystem recover more quickly from the oil. Break it up, more surface area for biologic breakdown, the churning effect of waves. What's the theory behind a washing machine and the agitator again?

As long as George Bush doesn't blow up the levees again to kill all the blacks, we might be ok...:rolleyes:

Gerry Clinchy
06-01-2010, 07:39 AM
NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/31/us/politics/31drill.html?th&emc=th


Mr. Obama, shortly after taking office, had assigned Interior Secretary Ken Salazar (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/ken_salazar/index.html?inline=nyt-per) to clean up the agency, the Minerals Management Service (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/m/minerals_management_service/index.html?inline=nyt-org). The office’s history of corruption and coziness with the industry it was supposed to regulate had been the subject of years of scathing reports by government auditors, lurid headlines and a score of Congressional hearings.



But the promised reforms of the agency were slow to arrive, and the subject of the minerals service never came up at the meetings leading to the new drilling policy, according to a senior administration official involved in the discussions.

“I don’t recall a conversation on how the offshore drilling (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/o/offshore_drilling_and_exploration/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and M.M.S. issues overlapped,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss confidential deliberations involving the president.



Political expediency may have played a role. In pushing offshore drilling, Mr. Obama was hoping to placate the oil industry and its supporters in Congress, who were demanding increased access to the outer continental shelf in exchange for their possible support for broader climate change (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/globalwarming/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and energy legislation that Mr. Obama wants.

That focus apparently eclipsed any concerns about the minerals agency, especially since at the time no oil rig had exploded and sent hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil into the gulf.

No change noted here ... politics as usual.



Shortly after he was appointed in 2009, Mr. Salazar visited the agency’s Denver office and declared at a news conference that he was the “new sheriff in town” who would bring significant changes. He issued new ethics guidelines and eliminated a controversial royalty program.

But it is now clear that he did little else, focusing his energies elsewhere, for example on offshore wind projects.

God only knows what "cozy relationships" will be put in place for the providers of these offshore wind projects!

Oil and natural gas are important in bridging the gap for the transition to other forms of energy. You can't really "disconnect" the relationship as technology is developed for other replaceable energy forms.



On Thursday, Mr. Obama acknowledged that he should have paid more attention to the problems at the service and moved more quickly to correct them.

“At M.M.S., Ken Salazar was in the process of making these reforms,” Mr. Obama said at a news conference. “But the point that I’m making is that, obviously, they weren’t happening fast enough.”

Wonder if Mr. Salazar will soon join the ranks of the unemployed?

dnf777
06-02-2010, 05:52 PM
OMG! I heard on FauxNews today the talking heads raving about how BP has done so well in the PR front with this spill???

Are they on the same planet as the rest of us? Or was this paying homage to Mr. Cheney's former PR manager Ann Koltun?

I mean, have they heard the BP CEO whining that he would like "his life back"??? That went over like a turd in the punch bowl with the people who have lost their jobs, their family business, their boats, and most of all, families of the 11 dead workers!

Yeah, great PR job! Maybe they were referring to the effort to shift blame for the spill onto Obama?

david gibson
06-02-2010, 06:03 PM
OMG! I heard on FauxNews today the talking heads raving about how BP has done so well in the PR front with this spill???

Are they on the same planet as the rest of us? Or was this paying homage to Mr. Cheney's former PR manager Ann Koltun?

I mean, have they heard the BP CEO whining that he would like "his life back"??? That went over like a turd in the punch bowl with the people who have lost their jobs, their family business, their boats, and most of all, families of the 11 dead workers!

Yeah, great PR job! Maybe they were referring to the effort to shift blame for the spill onto Obama?


the idiot CEO has made some stupid statements, no argument from me there.

but, on the other hand, they have been very forthright with airing the streaming video and have been taking out a lot of big ads here in houston. whatever you think of that, it is good PR, they'll get more support here than most places.

so whether it placates you or not is not the issue, only that they are doing it is.

they are a HECK of a lot more transparent than president zerO was on health care and sestac. what happened to all that change and transparency promises?.... ;-)

obama is the bigger clown here.

"yes we can" has become "will we ever?" LOL

"daddy, did you plug the hole yet?" LOL

Henry V
06-02-2010, 09:54 PM
A few more good reads...

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6549#more

http://blogs.ft.com/energy-source/2010/06/01/how-difficult-are-relief-wells-some-comparisons-with-montara/

http://professional.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704490204575278952784008676.html?m od=wsjproe_hps_TopLeftWhatsNews

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/us/03lobby.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/31/bp-concerned-control-weeks-incident/

http://www.postcarbon.org/article/104152-museletter-217-deepwater-horizon-and-the

Henry V
06-02-2010, 10:03 PM
.....
they are a HECK of a lot more transparent than president zerO was on health care and sestac. what happened to all that change and transparency promises?.... ;-)
......
Right, that is exactly why you know more about the health care bill than any other bill in history. I sense a new theme here, if the President and his administration conduct politics as usual the "change" is questioned. Perhaps he should paint the white house too?
For those who care to notice, a health care bill is a change and so is a growing economy. BP insiders in the DOI is a problem though.

dnf777
06-03-2010, 10:33 AM
Just curious....is anyone, especially the right-wingers here, even remotely interested to hear what was discussed in the closed-door energy policies of 2001? All we have are rumors...rumors that BP was involved, as were all the other major E&P companies.....were contracts discussed? Safety plans, contingency plans in the even of spills??

Anyone? Even slightly curious? Or do we give him the benefit of the doubt and just let it go, and go clean the mess the best we can? Why don't we have at least as stringent safety as other countries? Or do we?

Just wondering if anyone else is slightly curious about this?

Franco
06-03-2010, 10:51 AM
Just curious....is anyone, especially the right-wingers here, even remotely interested to hear what was discussed in the closed-door energy policies of 2001? All we have are rumors...rumors that BP was involved, as were all the other major E&P companies.....were contracts discussed? Safety plans, contingency plans in the even of spills??

Anyone? Even slightly curious? Or do we give him the benefit of the doubt and just let it go, and go clean the mess the best we can? Why don't we have at least as stringent safety as other countries? Or do we?

Just wondering if anyone else is slightly curious about this?

I've read it the WSJ recently that we have the toughest safety regs in the world. Were our regulators asleep at the wheel, who knows?

The cost of preventing accidents is a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to clean up the mess and the major oil companies know this fact. This accident could well put BP out of business. No major oil company is going to skip safety in trying to save a few bucks. The cost of failure is too steep.

Cutting through all the media misinformation on this situation, it looks like a bad decision was made at the time of the accident. Again, just look at the lack of leaks/spills in the gulf with over 40,000 offshore wells having been drilled!

At least the administration in 2001 understood the oil buisness whereas the current administration is not only inept but, also intimidated by thier lack of knowledge when it comes to drilling for oil.

Buzz
06-03-2010, 10:53 AM
I've read it the WSJ recently that we have the toughest safety regs in the world. Were our regulators asleep at the wheel, who knows?

The cost of preventing accidents is a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to c

At least the administration in 2001 understands the oil buisness whereas the current administration is not only inept but, also intimidated by thier lack of knowledge when it comes to drilling for oil.

They understood it well enough to fill the regulatory agencies with industry insiders.

Franco
06-03-2010, 11:01 AM
They understood it well enough to fill the regulatory agencies with industry insiders.



I would hope they would because "insiders" know the buisness. Just because they are insiders doesn't mean they would turn a blind eye to regulations.

Or, would you rather have someone that knows little of what it takes to drill a well calling the shots?

When the government is in charge of regulating, we are in for certain failure. Lets face it, the Feds have and are failing at EVERYTHING, from spending to Healthcare. Why would I want to trust bureacrats to get the job done?

Regulation enforcement should be left to private business operating within the Fed guidelines. I still like the idea of having insurance companies overlooking complience. Make the oil companies maintain a 3 billion policy with a 1 billion deductable.

dnf777
06-03-2010, 11:15 AM
I've read it the WSJ recently that we have the toughest safety regs in the world. Were our regulators asleep at the wheel, who knows?

The cost of preventing accidents is a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to clean up the mess and the major oil companies know this fact. This accident could well put BP out of business. No major oil company is going to skip safety in trying to save a few bucks. The cost of failure is too steep.

Cutting through all the media misinformation on this situation, it looks like a bad decision was made at the time of the accident. Again, just look at the lack of leaks/spills in the gulf with over 40,000 offshore wells having been drilled!

At least the administration in 2001 understood the oil buisness whereas the current administration is not only inept but, also intimidated by thier lack of knowledge when it comes to drilling for oil.

No offense Franco, but aren't you the guy who assured us the well would be capped by 5/25?

Why are we hearing that other countries require more substantial BOPs and acoustic activators, and that they have plans in place ,rather than just assurances that it will never happen? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

There is no lack of spills...in fact, there was one hauntingly similar to this from the same company (different pre-reorganization name) in the Gulf in 1979. Apparently we leaned NADA. I remember scrubbing tar off my feet after going to Padre Island in the 80s.

duckheads
06-03-2010, 12:04 PM
Just curious....is anyone, especially the right-wingers here, even remotely interested to hear what was discussed in the closed-door energy policies of 2001? All we have are rumors...rumors that BP was involved, as were all the other major E&P companies.....were contracts discussed? Safety plans, contingency plans in the even of spills??

Anyone? Even slightly curious? Or do we give him the benefit of the doubt and just let it go, and go clean the mess the best we can? Why don't we have at least as stringent safety as other countries? Or do we?

Just wondering if anyone else is slightly curious about this?

why don't you hold the current pres to the same standards? why do you not question the people and corps. that he is associated with? BP for example.

more independant BS regards,

sometimes a great notion
06-03-2010, 12:40 PM
My solution is this. MAKE HEMP LEGAL SO WE CAN CONVERT IT TO PETROL PRODUCTS SO WE DONT HAVE TO DRILL!!! Growing hemp is easier and cheaper and way better for enviroment. Use Fertilizer from dairies, feed lots etc. All the machinery to produce oil can be self sustained.

dnf777
06-03-2010, 12:47 PM
why don't you hold the current pres to the same standards? why do you not question the people and corps. that he is associated with? BP for example.

more independant BS regards,

I have said several times this needs to be looked into, if that's the case. (re: Dr. Chu) But in large, the MMS is all Bush/Cheney holdevers, to answer you question, and it does appear a house-cleaning may be underway)

Now that I've answered your question, would you care to answer mine? Aren't you at least a little curious WHAT was said and WHAT deals took place in what used to be an open meeting? Especially if it has bearing on the current environmental/economic disaster that is occurring in our waters and shores? Maybe it's nothing, but isn't it at least worth looking into?

Just imagine if Dems had secret energy meetings and then this occurs. You guys would all be having apoplectic seizures!! I'm just wondering if you hold the almighty Cheney to the same level of scrutiny? Apparently not.

david gibson
06-03-2010, 01:34 PM
My solution is this. MAKE HEMP LEGAL SO WE CAN CONVERT IT TO PETROL PRODUCTS SO WE DONT HAVE TO DRILL!!! Growing hemp is easier and cheaper and way better for enviroment. Use Fertilizer from dairies, feed lots etc. All the machinery to produce oil can be self sustained.

dude that would never work. then we'd just have shortages of milk and oreo cookies and then look at what a mess we would be in.

Franco
06-03-2010, 02:28 PM
No offense Franco, but aren't you the guy who assured us the well would be capped by 5/25?

Why are we hearing that other countries require more substantial BOPs and acoustic activators, and that they have plans in place ,rather than just assurances that it will never happen? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

There is no lack of spills...in fact, there was one hauntingly similar to this from the same company (different pre-reorganization name) in the Gulf in 1979. Apparently we leaned NADA. I remember scrubbing tar off my feet after going to Padre Island in the 80s.

Yup, I was optimistic that they could get it done by then. What does that have to do with your post? I'm still remaining positive.

Ther have been no major spills/leaks in the Gulf Of Mexico due to drilling prior to this!

Do you really think BP risked loosing several billion dollars because they didn't want to spend for an acoustic activator?

The problem with this thread is very few know anything about the situation other than what the news media is telling them.

The best people to handle this is BP...PERIOD! Not the politicians, the wacky news media or self-appointed Petroleum Engineers.

Buzz
06-03-2010, 02:33 PM
Ther have been no major spills/leaks in the Gulf Of Mexico due to drilling prior to this!



Actually, Transocean before they changed their name had a very similar problem back in '79 didn't they?

Franco
06-03-2010, 02:37 PM
Actually, Transocean before they changed their name had a very similar problem back in '79 didn't they?

There was a minor spill but, nothing close to the current on. 31 years is a damn great stretch for the amount of drilling activity in the gulf.

Also, there was a story on NOLA.com (they have the most accurate assessment of what is going on in the gulf) that stated that the spill 31 years ago was much less than the annual natural oil that purcolates from the gulf floor. Like the little oil balls they found in the Fla Keys that the news media tried thier hardest to pin on the current situation.

Eric Johnson
06-03-2010, 02:40 PM
Now that I've answered your question, would you care to answer mine? Aren't you at least a little curious WHAT was said and WHAT deals took place in what used to be an open meeting? Especially if it has bearing on the current environmental/economic disaster that is occurring in our waters and shores? Maybe it's nothing, but isn't it at least worth looking into?

Only if you'll reveal the minutes of the secret meetings of the task force on healthcare from the Clinton years.

Ball's in your court.

Eric

dnf777
06-03-2010, 02:42 PM
Yup, I was optimistic that they could get it done by then. What does that have to do with your post? I'm still remaining positive.

Ther have been no major spills/leaks in the Gulf Of Mexico due to drilling prior to this!

Do you really think BP risked loosing several billion dollars because they didn't want to spend for an acoustic activator?

The problem with this thread is very few know anything about the situation other than what the news media is telling them.

The best people to handle this is BP...PERIOD! Not the politicians, the wacky news media or self-appointed Petroleum Engineers.

Your facts are wrong. I posted a link to an expose of the exact same company, with a prior name, who had an eerily similar situation as our current one. (there was even a conincidental shut down of the Alaskan Pipeline during the last spill, as there was with this one) Granted it was Maddow, but the story told itself through actual news reels they dug up from 79. Check it out, its really spooky. You'll hear terms like BOP failure, junk-shot, top-kill.....you even hear the Mexican version of operation top hat.....operation sombrero!!! I'm not kidding.

I think an appointed panel of experts from the industry, and "drafting" of equipment from whomever has it available is the way to go here. BP should not be the sole purveyor of information here. I agree with you that the gov't or media should not run this show...but we both know that all that talk is just a way to attach this to Obama, when it is clearly a private industrial accident. He can direct federal assets and dollars to the problem, but as you know and have stated, the gov't doesn't know how to deal with this.

dnf777
06-03-2010, 02:44 PM
Only if you'll reveal the minutes of the secret meetings of the task force on healthcare from the Clinton years.

Ball's in your court.

Eric

If you watch the news or read anything, you know more about the healthcare reform package than any other legislation in history! You may even know more than Nancy Pelosi, by her own admission! Back in your court. Really, aren't you just a tad bit curious about that?

Obviously, folks knew enough about the clinton package to squash it before it ever came to the floor. Besides, legislative issues are pubic forum, and are voted on my elected officials. What happened in the energy meeting, we'll never know, and CAN be enacted without any public review or consent. For that reason alone, I'd like to know what the hell they did??!! Given the current disaster, I though maybe even some right-wingers would too? Guess they just don't care.

Buzz
06-03-2010, 02:44 PM
Only if you'll reveal the minutes of the secret meetings of the task force on healthcare from the Clinton years.

Ball's in your court.

Eric


So if the Clinton stuff is released, your curiosity about the Cheney meetings will be piqued?

Eric Johnson
06-03-2010, 03:03 PM
So if the Clinton stuff is released, your curiosity about the Cheney meetings will be piqued?

Not really. It was just another case of a group in power using that power. I mentioned it only to show that it's not an uncommon occurrance. I'll bet we could find an instance or two in the current administration as well.

As for the comments on the healthcare process being opened to the public, it wasn't so far as I could tell. There were multiple bills with amendments drafted in secret, thousands upon thousands of pages, and certainly less than the promised 5 days of public exposure before signing.

Eric

road kill
06-03-2010, 03:09 PM
There was a minor spill but, nothing close to the current on. 31 years is a damn great stretch for the amount of drilling activity in the gulf.

Also, there was a story on NOLA.com (they have the most accurate assessment of what is going on in the gulf) that stated that the spill 31 years ago was much less than the annual natural oil that purcolates from the gulf floor. Like the little oil balls they found in the Fla Keys that the news media tried thier hardest to pin on the current situation.


In the last 31 years how many tankers have leaked oil??

Just askin'......



rk

Franco
06-03-2010, 03:22 PM
In the last 31 years how many tankers have leaked oil??

Just askin'......



rk

None that I am aware of. In other words, there have been no accidents REPORTED in the GOM.

Franco
06-03-2010, 03:27 PM
Your facts are wrong. I posted a link to an expose of the exact same company, with a prior name, who had an eerily similar situation as our current one. (there was even a conincidental shut down of the Alaskan Pipeline during the last spill, as there was with this one) Granted it was Maddow, but the story told itself through actual news reels they dug up from 79. Check it out, its really spooky. You'll hear terms like BOP failure, junk-shot, top-kill.....you even hear the Mexican version of operation top hat.....operation sombrero!!! I'm not kidding.

I think an appointed panel of experts from the industry, and "drafting" of equipment from whomever has it available is the way to go here. BP should not be the sole purveyor of information here. I agree with you that the gov't or media should not run this show...but we both know that all that talk is just a way to attach this to Obama, when it is clearly a private industrial accident. He can direct federal assets and dollars to the problem, but as you know and have stated, the gov't doesn't know how to deal with this.

That was the Bay of Campechee not the GOM.

dnf777
06-03-2010, 03:29 PM
That was the Bay of Campechee not the GOM.

That's part of the GOM. Besides, the tar balls sure as heck washed up on Padre and Galveston!

road kill
06-03-2010, 03:30 PM
None that I am aware of. In other words, there have been no accidents REPORTED in the GOM.

I asked becuase I had heard on the radio (driving for dollars) that there have been several tanker leaks versus 1 oil rig leak.
The logic being proposed was that oil rigs are safer in general.:confused:


rk

Franco
06-03-2010, 03:42 PM
I asked becuase I had heard on the radio (driving for dollars) that there have been several tanker leaks versus 1 oil rig leak.
The logic being proposed was that oil rigs are safer in general.:confused:


rk

With double hulled tankers, I doubt it.

I'll add that I think the lack of disasters like the current one in the GOM tells me that those in charge of doing thier jobs have been adequate. One accident hardly condems an entire industry in the GOM.

Until Obama lifts the ban on offshore drilling, look for the price of gas to skyrocket in a nieghborhood near everyone soon enough.

road kill
06-03-2010, 04:07 PM
With double hulled tankers, I doubt it.

I'll add that I think the lack of disasters like the current one in the GOM tells me that those in charge of doing thier jobs have been adequate. One accident hardly condems an entire industry in the GOM.
Until Obama lifts the ban on offshore drilling, look for the price of gas to skyrocket in a nieghborhood near everyone soon enough.


Does the current administration know this?

Someone called this the "Bay of Rigs.":rolleyes:



rk

Franco
06-03-2010, 10:19 PM
Checkout this PDF, it shows exactly what happened.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/how_the_gulf_of_mexico_oil_spi.html

Sean H
06-03-2010, 10:38 PM
Checkout this PDF, it shows exactly what happened.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/how_the_gulf_of_mexico_oil_spi.html

Nobody knows what happened yet. It's all speculation at this point. Until the BOP and as much casing as possible is recovered, it will continue to be speculation. Even then, it might not be possible to say 100% what happened.

Gerry Clinchy
06-04-2010, 09:17 AM
Listened to Hayward's comments yesterday ... he has committed BP to doing the cleanup of the shorelines. The "tab" so far was mentioned at $65 million for work done by US for reimbursement by BP.

Seems like they've used one of the "basic" ideas mentioned on this forum ... that they have cut off (hey, no engineer here, don't know the details on how they did that) the top of the wellhead & can now put some kind of cap on it to stop the leakage. Said that it would be about noon today to see if this was going to be effective.

I might ascribe to an opinion mentioned on one of the spill threads that the oil companies are well aware of the cost of an disaster like this, and it is in their own interest to do all they can to avoid a catastrophe like this. They would have to be total idiots to not have figured out that the cost of safety is a fraction of cleaning up a mess. Maybe I'm too naive?

dnf777
06-04-2010, 09:55 AM
Thank God (and the engineers and techies) it looks like some good news finally with the well head! Still 39 million gallons afloat to deal with, and a permanent fix, but this is the first glimmer of hope thus far! :D:D:D:D:D

Franco
06-04-2010, 10:31 AM
No one knows how much oil has leaked.

We should know by 1pm when the Press Conference is schedule how successful this procedure is.

I'm staying optimistic.

Bought some beautiful fresh gulf shrimp on my way home yesterday, $6 per pound for jumbos.

Goose
06-04-2010, 11:49 AM
No one knows how much oil has leaked.

We should know by 1pm when the Press Conference is schedule how successful this procedure is.

I'm staying optimistic.

Bought some beautiful fresh gulf shrimp on my way home yesterday, $6 per pound for jumbos.

There's nothing better than fresh gulf shrimp. It's the perfect meal and I could eat shrimp any time during the day.

In early May I read an article somewhere that suggested the cavern underneath this volcanic-like eruption of oil could be the size of Mount Everest. I wonder if that's accurate?

road kill
06-04-2010, 11:54 AM
Thank God (and the engineers and techies) it looks like some good news finally with the well head! Still 39 million gallons afloat to deal with, and a permanent fix, but this is the first glimmer of hope thus far! :D:D:D:D:D

Thank who??:D




rk

dnf777
06-04-2010, 12:12 PM
Thank who??:D




rk

I know who, and so do you.

Franco
06-04-2010, 12:19 PM
There's nothing better than fresh gulf shrimp. It's the perfect meal and I could eat shrimp any time during the day.

In early May I read an article somewhere that suggested the cavern underneath this volcanic-like eruption of oil could be the size of Mount Everest. I wonder if that's accurate?

Nothing like fresh gulf shrimp boiled! Dip 'em in a little cocktail sauce or remolaude, wash with a cold beer.;-)

The oil reserve where the leak is, happens to be one of the largest oil reserves in the world. Trillions of cubic feet of natural gas too. I'm thinking of having my pickup converted to compressed natural gas since we have a natural gas filling station going up about 3 miles from my house. That way I can burn natural gas and save a little over a dollar per gallon(at current prices) compared to gasoline and have the ability to switch over to gasoline if I can't find a compressed natural gas filling station.

dnf777
06-04-2010, 04:22 PM
The oil reserve where the leak is, happens to be one of the largest oil reserves in the world. Trillions of cubic feet of natural gas too. I'm thinking of having my pickup converted to compressed natural gas since we have a natural gas filling station going up about 3 miles from my house. That way I can burn natural gas and save a little over a dollar per gallon(at current prices) compared to gasoline and have the ability to switch over to gasoline if I can't find a compressed natural gas filling station.

I have NO idea why CNG isn't being promoted more!?
I have NO idea why all new homes don't have solar roof panels.
I have NO idea why there aren't incentives to retrofit old homes with solar panels, and connect them to the grid.

Think that's silly? Google "germany solar energy policy" and read about the overwhelming success that program has been. How technology has become more efficient, cheaper, and how much domestic electric is produced on rooftops instead of by burning oil, gas, and coal. You'll be wondering too.

Blackstone
06-04-2010, 05:11 PM
I'm thinking of having my pickup converted to compressed natural gas since we have a natural gas filling station going up about 3 miles from my house. That way I can burn natural gas and save a little over a dollar per gallon(at current prices) compared to gasoline and have the ability to switch over to gasoline if I can't find a compressed natural gas filling station.

Interesting. You are about the first non-commerical consumer I have heard really talk about making the conversion. I have several commercial fleet customers looking into converting parts of their fleet where it makes sense. The cost can be prohibitive, and I think Fed tax credits only apply to dedicated CNG engines. However, there may be some state tax credits that apply to bi-fuel systems. Do a lot of research before you choose a conversion company. Some of the conversions on the market are starting to exhibit problems.

It’s funny, but about 6 years ago, GM made a CNG pickup. They almost couldn’t give them away. Nobody wanted them, so GM discontinued production. As soon as gas got expensive, and “green” became all the rage, customers started begging for them. I had customers contacting me to see if they could buy the engines to retrofit their vehicles. Now all the auto makers are scrambling to get into the CNG and LP business. Ford is offering a conversion through Roush for some vans and pickups. GM is offering dedicated CNG & LP engines in ¾ & 1 ton vans for the 2011 MY. Pickups should be the next models to be produced. They are also looking at a bi-fuel option.

depittydawg
06-04-2010, 05:14 PM
I have NO idea why CNG isn't being promoted more!?
I have NO idea why all new homes don't have solar roof panels.
I have NO idea why there aren't incentives to retrofit old homes with solar panels, and connect them to the grid.

Think that's silly? Google "germany solar energy policy" and read about the overwhelming success that program has been. How technology has become more efficient, cheaper, and how much domestic electric is produced on rooftops instead of by burning oil, gas, and coal. You'll be wondering too.

You are so right on. And here's another caveat, Solar Panels are produced right here in the US! I work in a factory that does just that. Good high tech jobs that America desperately needs RIGHT NOW. To his credit, Obama did include a pittance of federal stimulus dollars for the development of Solar and other energy technologies.

Franco
06-04-2010, 06:55 PM
Interesting. You are about the first non-commerical consumer I have heard really talk about making the conversion. I have several commercial fleet customers looking into converting parts of their fleet where it makes sense. The cost can be prohibitive, and I think Fed tax credits only apply to dedicated CNG engines. However, there may be some state tax credits that apply to bi-fuel systems. Do a lot of research before you choose a conversion company. Some of the conversions on the market are starting to exhibit problems.

It’s funny, but about 6 years ago, GM made a CNG pickup. They almost couldn’t give them away. Nobody wanted them, so GM discontinued production. As soon as gas got expensive, and “green” became all the rage, customers started begging for them. I had customers contacting me to see if they could buy the engines to retrofit their vehicles. Now all the auto makers are scrambling to get into the CNG and LP business. Ford is offering a conversion through Roush for some vans and pickups. GM is offering dedicated CNG & LP engines in ¾ & 1 ton vans for the 2011 MY. Pickups should be the next models to be produced. They are also looking at a bi-fuel option.

That is the system I am considering for my Ford. I'm having the dealership look into it for installation. It ain't cheap and that's what is stopping most.

There are a couple of fleets here that have already done the conversion.
The Bud Distributor here did thier fleet and so far they are happy with the savings.

Blackstone
06-04-2010, 07:56 PM
That is the system I am considering for my Ford. I'm having the dealership look into it for installation. It ain't cheap and that's what is stopping most.

There are a couple of fleets here that have already done the conversion.
The Bud Distributor here did thier fleet and so far they are happy with the savings.

Unless something has changed, I’m pretty sure the Roush system is a dedicated fuel system. Maybe they have added bi-fuel engines to their offerings now. If not, I know a local Ford dealer here that is really involved in this whole conversion movement. I could find out what company he has been using for bi-fuel conversions, and send you the contact information if you want.

Sean H
06-04-2010, 08:09 PM
For all you guys looking to add solar power to your house, here you go. :lol:

http://www.bp.com/modularhome.do?categoryId=8050

Franco
06-04-2010, 08:45 PM
Unless something has changed, I’m pretty sure the Roush system is a dedicated fuel system. Maybe they have added bi-fuel engines to their offerings now. If not, I know a local Ford dealer here that is really involved in this whole conversion movement. I could find out what company he has been using for bi-fuel conversions, and send you the contact information if you want.

Post that info or shoot me a PM. I want the dealership to handle the conversion.

Thanks

Henry V
06-08-2010, 01:22 PM
Here's a good article exposing the futility of building sand berms along the LA coast. The feds were trying to act responsibly and not waste the money but politics rule. Just another placebo activity.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=oil-spill-may-change-shape-of-gulf-coast-louisiana

Gerry Clinchy
06-08-2010, 02:52 PM
Nobody seems to have noted that the cap seems to be doing some good. They've sucked off about 1 million gallons Sunday and Monday. They're thinking of putting a larger cap in place. (460,000 and 640,000 gallons)

They are not getting it all, but 1 million gallons less into the ocean is better than anything else they've tried so far.

Buzz
06-08-2010, 03:04 PM
Here's a good article exposing the futility of building sand berms along the LA coast. The feds were trying to act responsibly and not waste the money but politics rule. Just another placebo activity.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=oil-spill-may-change-shape-of-gulf-coast-louisiana



Nobody seems to have noted that the cap seems to be doing some good. They've sucked off about 1 million gallons Sunday and Monday. They're thinking of putting a larger cap in place. (460,000 and 640,000 gallons)

They are not getting it all, but 1 million gallons less into the ocean is better than anything else they've tried so far.


These efforts and the relief wells are the ONLY thing that will work out. Trying to skim the surface and build sand berms will play well politically, but I'm afraid that it's a complete waste of time. There are giant oil plumes flowing a thousand feet or more below the surface. I'm afraid that the oil there will make what is floating on the surface look like chicken feed.

We should be eating sea food at home daily, while we can still get it and can still afford it.

Henry V
06-08-2010, 04:04 PM
Nobody seems to have noted that the cap seems to be doing some good. They've sucked off about 1 million gallons Sunday and Monday. They're thinking of putting a larger cap in place. (460,000 and 640,000 gallons)

They are not getting it all, but 1 million gallons less into the ocean is better than anything else they've tried so far.
That is good news 49 days into the problem.
We all know good news does not sell.The main reason that they are not collecting more is because the ships on the surface are at their capacity to process the oil/water/gas. They could have collected more if they had been better prepared.
It does look like their 5,000 barrels per day guess was off quite a bit, just like their assertion a few days back that "there is no indication that there are large subsurface oil plumes".

Henry V
06-08-2010, 04:11 PM
TOP 15 BRIGHTSIDES OF THE BP OIL SPILL.

* Your shrimp dish comes pre- marinated.

* Newly affordable water front properties.

* Frolicsome beachside tar ball fights.

* Gulf Coast salad dressing: just add vinegar.

* Jet Skis able to refuel mid- trip.

* Lubricated Jelly Fish.

* Mortared with oil and tar, sand castles now tide- proof.

* Fewer silly election year cries of "Drill, Baby, Drill."

* No more squeaky oysters.

* Need an oil change? Wander down to water's edge and squeegee a duck.

* Hot enough day, and voila: the world's largest fish fry.

* Don't bother drilling for oil, the oil is coming to us.

* Romantic beach bonfires 24/7.

* Wriggling out of your tight swimsuit is a breeze.

* Every Gulf dock and pier instantly doubles as a Slip and Slide.

YardleyLabs
06-08-2010, 04:12 PM
The open question: Given the fact that they are now capturing more oil than was believed to be leaking per day and cameras seem to show more oi;l than ever escaping, did cutting the pipe release increase the rate of oil escaping into the ocean by more than the cap is able to capture?

Franco
06-08-2010, 04:35 PM
The open question: Given the fact that they are now capturing more oil than was believed to be leaking per day and cameras seem to show more oi;l than ever escaping, did cutting the pipe release increase the rate of oil escaping into the ocean by more than the cap is able to capture?

Good question and there have been no statements made on that. They did say that a bigger Top Hat would be placed over the leake this weekend and will capture even more of the spill.

They have discoverd another leaking well not to far from the Horizon in 500 feet of water.
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/06/second_gulf_oil_spill_releasin.html

Fresh seafood is still plentiful and has not affected the price yet except if one goes out to eat at a restaurant where it is more expensive. The fishing has been good when the wind is not too high on the east side of the Ms River and very good west of it. Shrimpers are hauling in large amounts which have kept the prices down and the shrimp are not tainted with oil, west of the river.

dnf777
06-08-2010, 05:33 PM
[QUOTE=Henry V;626618]TOP 15 BRIGHTSIDES OF THE BP OIL SPILL.

Sorry Henry, can't laugh yet. Probably never will.
I would add to the list one true bright side (hopefully):

* Will force us to take our energy policy (or lack thereof) seriously, and develop alternative, clean energy sources, like other countries have already done. Mabye we can secure our place as a world leader in energy development, but we have a lot of catching up to do.

depittydawg
06-08-2010, 05:34 PM
[QUOTE=Henry V;626618]TOP 15 BRIGHTSIDES OF THE BP OIL SPILL.

Sorry Henry, can't laugh yet. Probably never will.
I would add to the list one true bright side (hopefully):

* Will force us to take our energy policy (or lack thereof) seriously, and develop alternative, clean energy sources, like other countries have already done. Mabye we can secure our place as a world leader in energy development, but we have a lot of catching up to do.

I'll second that. Although, I was able to laugh. Some of those were pretty funny.

duk4me
06-11-2010, 09:07 AM
Great now they say more oil is gushing out in an hour than was originally estimated to be coming out in 24 hrs. Just keeps getting better.:rolleyes:

BrianW
06-12-2010, 11:41 AM
U.S. and BP slow to accept Dutch expertise

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html

Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help.
It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands.
The response from the Obama administration and BP, which are coordinating the cleanup: “The embassy got a nice letter from the administration that said, ‘Thanks, but no thanks,'” said Geert Visser, consul general for the Netherlands in Houston....
Federal law has also hampered the assistance. The Jones Act, the maritime law that requires all goods be carried in U.S. waters by U.S.-flagged ships, has prevented Dutch ships with spill-fighting equipment from entering U.S. coastal areas.

"I have ordered the secretaries of the Interior and Homeland Security, as well as administrator Lisa Jackson (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Lisa-P-Jackson) of the Environmental Protection Agency (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Environmental-Protection-Agency), to visit the site on Friday to ensure that BP and the entire U.S. government is doing everything possible not just to respond to this incident but also to determine its cause," the president said.
ABC News 4/29/2010
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Eco/bp-oil-spill-national-significance-obama-administration/story?id=10509844

"I’m not interested in words, I’m interested in action." Obama to Matt Lauer

Riiight!

dnf777
06-14-2010, 10:36 PM
U.S. and BP slow to accept Dutch expertise

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html

Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help.
It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands.
The response from the Obama administration and BP, which are coordinating the cleanup: “The embassy got a nice letter from the administration that said, ‘Thanks, but no thanks,'” said Geert Visser, consul general for the Netherlands in Houston....
Federal law has also hampered the assistance. The Jones Act, the maritime law that requires all goods be carried in U.S. waters by U.S.-flagged ships, has prevented Dutch ships with spill-fighting equipment from entering U.S. coastal areas.

"I have ordered the secretaries of the Interior and Homeland Security, as well as administrator Lisa Jackson (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Lisa-P-Jackson) of the Environmental Protection Agency (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Environmental-Protection-Agency), to visit the site on Friday to ensure that BP and the entire U.S. government is doing everything possible not just to respond to this incident but also to determine its cause," the president said.
ABC News 4/29/2010
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Eco/bp-oil-spill-national-significance-obama-administration/story?id=10509844

"I’m not interested in words, I’m interested in action." Obama to Matt Lauer

Riiight!

Yeah, hard to swallow pride, but its time to call in the Norwegians.

Franco
06-15-2010, 07:06 AM
This is everything anyone needs to know about what is going on in the Gulf Of Mexico. It is a comprehensive look into the disaster.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=0

road kill
06-15-2010, 07:19 AM
This is everything anyone needs to know about what is going on in the Gulf Of Mexico. It is a comprehensive look into the disaster.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=0

I read this a while (couple days) back.
I was going to post it as it sums things up pretty well.
But all that will happen is that a few "middle of the road independents" here will tell us what it all really means!!:rolleyes:




rk

road kill
06-15-2010, 07:20 AM
[QUOTE=Henry V;626618]TOP 15 BRIGHTSIDES OF THE BP OIL SPILL.

Sorry Henry, can't laugh yet. Probably never will.
I would add to the list one true bright side (hopefully):

* Will force us to take our energy policy (or lack thereof) seriously, and develop alternative, clean energy sources, like other countries have already done. Mabye we can secure our place as a world leader in energy development, but we have a lot of catching up to do.

Sort of like France and their Nukes???

Just askin.......:D



rk

Gerry Clinchy
06-15-2010, 09:27 AM
Seems so unreasonable that US didn't accept the Dutch offer of assistance.

The US is always the country that handles its own tornadoes, floods and hurricanes and is quick to offer aid to other countries less well off when disasters strike.

Makes little sense to turn down help from a country that has vital equipment to offer. I can't imagine that there isn't some way to over-rule the Jones Act in case of emergency ... and this surely was an emergency situation.

depittydawg
06-15-2010, 09:35 AM
I read this a while (couple days) back.
I was going to post it as it sums things up pretty well.
But all that will happen is that a few "middle of the road independents" here will tell us what it all really means!!:rolleyes:
rk

As usual RS cuts to the chase. Their criticism of the President is specific and right on the money. I wonder if Obama even realizes the political risk he is taking by his inaction halt all deep water drilling by BP? On the other hand, does the President of the United States have the authority to do this? I don't know if these wells are within the boundary of the United States. Many would answer no to this. Including, very likely, the supreme court.

depittydawg
06-15-2010, 09:37 AM
[QUOTE=Gerry Clinchy;629966]Seems so unreasonable that US didn't accept the Dutch offer of assistance.

Yeah, what's up with that?

ducknwork
06-15-2010, 10:56 AM
[QUOTE=Gerry Clinchy;629966]Seems so unreasonable that US didn't accept the Dutch offer of assistance.

Yeah, what's up with that?

Pretty disgusting, disrepectful, arrogant, and oh yeah, STUPID, if you ask me. If we came crawling back to them begging for help, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave O the finger. I might be tempted to do so in such a situation.

Gerry Clinchy
06-15-2010, 11:35 AM
Refusal of Dutch assistance would rest squarely on the Feds. If the Fed agreed to Dutch help, how could BP argue? And only the Feds could deal with the Jones Act.

Nothing "exotic" about what the Dutch were offering (that would require extensive study) ... they were just offering booms to help contain the damage.

The first people the White House sent to the Gulf were lawyers, rather than scientists? What are they thinking?! Sure there will be a legal aftermath, but mobilizing the best scientific people to formulate a solution would still seem the priority.