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Buzz
05-07-2010, 09:49 AM
Not great, but I hope the trend continues... Before anyone tries to remind me, yes around 60,000 were temporary census workers.


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/davebezesky/April_2010_jobs.jpg

badbullgator
05-07-2010, 10:19 AM
Yes it does....

Dow
10,449.89 -120.24 -1.14%

M&K's Retrievers
05-07-2010, 10:27 AM
Yeah, right. Unemployment up to 9.9% for April up from 9.7%. I think you will find that this is considered the norm by the obama administration.

Buzz
05-07-2010, 02:57 PM
Here is a better view...


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/davebezesky/jobs_sml.png

david gibson
05-07-2010, 03:01 PM
oh yes! obama is saving us! we just all need to sit down and shut up and let him tell us that.

can you please post a similar graph showing our deficit over the same time span?

Buzz
05-07-2010, 03:09 PM
You guys are all Johnny come lately on the deficit issue. I've been donating yearly to The Concord Coalition for something like 15-17 years.

dnf777
05-07-2010, 04:29 PM
Yeah, right. Unemployment up to 9.9% for April up from 9.7%. I think you will find that this is considered the norm by the obama administration.

That bump in unemployment, despite job growth, is because many unemployed that we just quit counting after being out of work for so long, have re-entered the job hunt now that there's some hope, thus bumping the rate. Actually, it stayed nearly the same, despite job growth.

This is good news for America. Not over yet, but at least headed in the right direction for the first time in about 10 years.


I'm still not convinced this latest flash-crash wasn't a cyber-attack. Did anyone else find is unsettling how Fox, MSNBC, CNBC, and CNN ALL had the exact same jovial "what the heck happened--fat finger--chuckling" approach to this?? When have they EVER all taken the same angle on a major event? I have this nagging feeling they were all asked to take this nonplussed approach to avoid major panic and sell-off if word of true economic vulnerability manifested this week. Just a thought. But wierd how ALL networks agreed, and seemed to downplay, eh?

lizard55033
05-07-2010, 04:35 PM
Thats not "job growth" that the press has been pushing off on the public...

What is it the seasonl workers getting called back

Buzz
05-07-2010, 04:40 PM
Thats not "job growth" that the press has been pushing off on the public...

What is it the seasonl workers getting called back


Was that seasonal workers getting called back in March/April of 08 and 09?

badbullgator
05-07-2010, 07:36 PM
Was that seasonal workers getting called back in March/April of 08 and 09?


Maybe not in 08, but the "increase" in 09 looks to be about the same number as 10

YardleyLabs
05-07-2010, 07:40 PM
The employment stats are actually seasonally adjusted. However, they will also be revised a couple of times as better data become available. There have been very few months in the last decade when job growth has exceeded 200,000 jobs. Unfortunately, given the number of jobs lost, it will be a long time before we stop hurting.

depittydawg
05-07-2010, 07:48 PM
Thats not "job growth" that the press has been pushing off on the public...

What is it the seasonl workers getting called back

Seems like Job growth to me. The labor market is always the last to recover after a recession. As a further sign, I got a call from a Headhunter today asking me if I wanted to work for HP. Had to tell him no thanks, I like the job I have. It's been quite a while since head hunters were active. Especially in the tech fields. I take that as a positive also.

M&K's Retrievers
05-07-2010, 09:35 PM
That bump in unemployment, despite job growth, is because many unemployed that we just quit counting after being out of work for so long, have re-entered the job hunt now that there's some hope, thus bumping the rate.....?

That is OBS*. How in the hell can anyone estimate the number of people who had given up looking for work but suddenly feel all is right with the world and it's OK to start looking again. Give me a break.

*obama bull shit

dnf777
05-07-2010, 10:09 PM
That is OBS*. How in the hell can anyone estimate the number of people who had given up looking for work but suddenly feel all is right with the world and it's OK to start looking again. Give me a break.

*obama bull shit

Well, I know you think Obama is brilliant, but I don't think he created the Bureau of Labor Statistics on his watch. In fact, truth be known, the BLS is the same gov't agency that Reagan and Bush quoted, as well as McCain as recent as the last election.

If you really want an answer to your question, those people are referred to as "reentrants", and how they are calculated has remained constant throughout several administrations, and there are more explanation than you probably care to read at the BLS website.. Again, Obama didn't invent this stuff.


Employment Situation Summary

Transmission of material in this release is embargoed USDL-10-0589
until 8:30 a.m. (EDT) Friday, May 7, 2010

Technical information:
Household data: (202) 691-6378 * cpsinfo@bls.gov * www.bls.gov/cps
Establishment data: (202) 691-6555 * cesinfo@bls.gov * www.bls.gov/ces

Media contact: (202) 691-5902 * PressOffice@bls.gov


THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- APRIL 2010


Nonfarm payroll employment rose by 290,000 in April, the unemployment rate
edged up to 9.9 percent, and the labor force increased sharply, the U.S.
Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Job gains occurred in manufactur-
ing, professional and business services, health care, and leisure and hospi-
tality. Federal government employment also rose, reflecting continued hiring
of temporary workers for Census 2010.

Household Survey Data

In April, the number of unemployed persons was 15.3 million, and the unem-
ployment rate edged up to 9.9 percent. The rate had been 9.7 percent for the
first 3 months of this year. (See table A-1.)

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rate for whites (9.0 percent)
edged up in April, while the rates for adult men (10.1 percent), adult women
(8.2 percent), teenagers (25.4 percent), blacks (16.5 percent), and Hispanics
(12.5 percent) showed little or no change. The jobless rate for Asians was
6.8 percent, not seasonally adjusted. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks and over) con-
tinued to trend up over the month, reaching 6.7 million. In April, 45.9 percent
of unemployed persons had been jobless for 27 weeks or more. (See table A-12.)

Among the unemployed, the number of reentrants to the labor force rose by
195,000 over the month. (See table A-11.)

In April, the civilian labor force participation rate increased by 0.3 percent-
age point to 65.2 percent, as the size of the labor force rose by 805,000. Since
December, the participation rate has increased by 0.6 percentage point. The em-
ployment-population ratio rose to 58.8 percent over the month and has increased
by 0.6 percentage point since December. (See table A-1.)

http://www.bls.gov/

Buzz
05-07-2010, 10:13 PM
You know, I really believe you guys don't give a damn about the country, so long as your team wins.


The twist in this report is that the unemployment rate unexpectedly rose from 9.7% to 9.9%. Recall that this metric comes not from the payrolls survey but rather from the household survey. It is thus possible for the two to contradict each other. However, there was less contradiction between the two reports than initially met the eye. Specifically, the household survey argued for an even better 550,000 job gain in April, but the number of people looking for jobs rose by an even larger 805,000. As such, the unemployment rate went up. However, the interpretation can be spun in a positive direction since job applicants must be feeling good to seek entry to the labour force in such large numbers. Eric Lascelles, TD Securities

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/05/07/economists-react-jobs-report-confirms-no-double-dip/

Buzz
05-07-2010, 10:15 PM
Dave I see you beat me to it. I was looking for a simple explanation...

mjh345
05-07-2010, 10:20 PM
Well, I know you think Obama is brilliant, but I don't think he created the Bureau of Labor Statistics on his watch. In fact, truth be known, the BLS is the same gov't agency that Reagan and Bush quoted, as well as McCain as recent as the last election.

If you really want an answer to your question, those people are referred to as "reentrants", and how they are calculated has remained constant throughout several administrations, and there are more explanation than you probably care to read at the BLS website.. Again, Obama didn't invent this stuff.


Employment Situation Summary

Transmission of material in this release is embargoed USDL-10-0589
until 8:30 a.m. (EDT) Friday, May 7, 2010

Technical information:
Household data: (202) 691-6378 * cpsinfo@bls.gov * www.bls.gov/cps (http://www.bls.gov/cps)
Establishment data: (202) 691-6555 * cesinfo@bls.gov * www.bls.gov/ces (http://www.bls.gov/ces)

Media contact: (202) 691-5902 * PressOffice@bls.gov


THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- APRIL 2010


Nonfarm payroll employment rose by 290,000 in April, the unemployment rate
edged up to 9.9 percent, and the labor force increased sharply, the U.S.
Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Job gains occurred in manufactur-
ing, professional and business services, health care, and leisure and hospi-
tality. Federal government employment also rose, reflecting continued hiring
of temporary workers for Census 2010.

Household Survey Data

In April, the number of unemployed persons was 15.3 million, and the unem-
ployment rate edged up to 9.9 percent. The rate had been 9.7 percent for the
first 3 months of this year. (See table A-1.)

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rate for whites (9.0 percent)
edged up in April, while the rates for adult men (10.1 percent), adult women
(8.2 percent), teenagers (25.4 percent), blacks (16.5 percent), and Hispanics
(12.5 percent) showed little or no change. The jobless rate for Asians was
6.8 percent, not seasonally adjusted. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks and over) con-
tinued to trend up over the month, reaching 6.7 million. In April, 45.9 percent
of unemployed persons had been jobless for 27 weeks or more. (See table A-12.)

Among the unemployed, the number of reentrants to the labor force rose by
195,000 over the month. (See table A-11.)

In April, the civilian labor force participation rate increased by 0.3 percent-
age point to 65.2 percent, as the size of the labor force rose by 805,000. Since
December, the participation rate has increased by 0.6 percentage point. The em-
ployment-population ratio rose to 58.8 percent over the month and has increased
by 0.6 percentage point since December. (See table A-1.)

http://www.bls.gov/
quit clouding the issue with facts Dave

M&K's Retrievers
05-07-2010, 10:24 PM
Well, I know you think Obama is brilliant, but I don't think he created the Bureau of Labor Statistics on his watch. In fact, truth be known, the BLS is the same gov't agency that Reagan and Bush quoted, as well as McCain as recent as the last election.

If you really want an answer to your question, those people are referred to as "reentrants", and how they are calculated has remained constant throughout several administrations, and there are more explanation than you probably care to read at the BLS website.. Again, Obama didn't invent this stuff.


Employment Situation Summary

Transmission of material in this release is embargoed USDL-10-0589
until 8:30 a.m. (EDT) Friday, May 7, 2010

Technical information:
Household data: (202) 691-6378 * cpsinfo@bls.gov * www.bls.gov/cps
Establishment data: (202) 691-6555 * cesinfo@bls.gov * www.bls.gov/ces

Media contact: (202) 691-5902 * PressOffice@bls.gov


THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- APRIL 2010


Nonfarm payroll employment rose by 290,000 in April, the unemployment rate
edged up to 9.9 percent, and the labor force increased sharply, the U.S.
Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Job gains occurred in manufactur-
ing, professional and business services, health care, and leisure and hospi-
tality. Federal government employment also rose, reflecting continued hiring
of temporary workers for Census 2010.

Household Survey Data

In April, the number of unemployed persons was 15.3 million, and the unem-
ployment rate edged up to 9.9 percent. The rate had been 9.7 percent for the
first 3 months of this year. (See table A-1.)

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rate for whites (9.0 percent)
edged up in April, while the rates for adult men (10.1 percent), adult women
(8.2 percent), teenagers (25.4 percent), blacks (16.5 percent), and Hispanics
(12.5 percent) showed little or no change. The jobless rate for Asians was
6.8 percent, not seasonally adjusted. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks and over) con-
tinued to trend up over the month, reaching 6.7 million. In April, 45.9 percent
of unemployed persons had been jobless for 27 weeks or more. (See table A-12.)

Among the unemployed, the number of reentrants to the labor force rose by
195,000 over the month. (See table A-11.)

In April, the civilian labor force participation rate increased by 0.3 percent-
age point to 65.2 percent, as the size of the labor force rose by 805,000. Since
December, the participation rate has increased by 0.6 percentage point. The em-
ployment-population ratio rose to 58.8 percent over the month and has increased
by 0.6 percentage point since December. (See table A-1.)

http://www.bls.gov/

Dave, consider the source .Gov. These idiots cannot even distribute census forms much less count the population. How are they going to figure out who is and isn't looking for a job. The only accurate count of the unemployed the government can use is the number of people on the government tit .

YardleyLabs
05-08-2010, 04:43 AM
Dave, consider the source .Gov. These idiots cannot even distribute census forms much less count the population. How are they going to figure out who is and isn't looking for a job. The only accurate count of the unemployed the government can use is the number of people on the government tit .
Then how do you know that there was even a recession?

Maybe the OBS machine made up the whole downturn -- infiltrating the Bush admin to corrupt BLS data. Initially, the objective was just to win the election. After that, the objective changed to painting a picture of an economy on a disastrous slide to depression to justify a takeover of financial services and the auto industry, and adoption of a trillion dollar patronage program and socialized medicine.

Now that those objectives have been met, the OBS machine has changed gears. Now it is manipulating statistics to make it look like things are getting better, even as the economy collapses under the smothering weight of socialism, to trick the public into letting Democrats remain in office.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D

dnf777
05-08-2010, 06:42 AM
Just for ONCE, I'd like to hear a rightie say that there is a glimmer of good news, and things just MIGHT be looking up. I saw plenty of lefties and indies applaud when Bush took the megaphone at ground zero after 9-11, and put politics aside. Why can't the right be big enough to do the same when our country is in need of support, and a little positive energy? I think this is very revealing of the right's true goals. Get their people in office, even at the cost of the country's well-being, everything else be damned.

M&K's Retrievers
05-08-2010, 10:15 AM
Just for ONCE, I'd like to hear a rightie say that there is a glimmer of good news, and things just MIGHT be looking up. I saw plenty of lefties and indies applaud when Bush took the megaphone at ground zero after 9-11, and put politics aside. Why can't the right be big enough to do the same when our country is in need of support, and a little positive energy? I think this is very revealing of the right's true goals. Get their people in office, even at the cost of the country's well-being, everything else be damned.

Dave, just for ONCE I'd like to be able to believe something that comes out of Washington instead of being lied to i.e. the true effects of health bill and it's actual costs, obama's blatant misrepresentation of the Arizona Immigration law, taxes aren't going to increase for those making less than $250K, transparency, etc.The right's true goals? Indeed. What are the left's true goals?

Mike

road kill
05-08-2010, 10:57 AM
Just for ONCE, I'd like to hear a rightie say that there is a glimmer of good news, and things just MIGHT be looking up. I saw plenty of lefties and indies applaud when Bush took the megaphone at ground zero after 9-11, and put politics aside. Why can't the right be big enough to do the same when our country is in need of support, and a little positive energy? I think this is very revealing of the right's true goals. Get their people in office, even at the cost of the country's well-being, everything else be damned.
So, as an Independent in the middle you are offended by the right but OK with the progressives endeavors to make Kruschev's prediction come true.
"The proletariat is the undertaker of capitalism"

You funny!!!!:D


rk

dnf777
05-08-2010, 12:04 PM
Dave, just for ONCE I'd like to be able to believe something that comes out of Washington instead of being lied to i.e. the true effects of health bill and it's actual costs, obama's blatant misrepresentation of the Arizona Immigration law, taxes aren't going to increase for those making less than $250K, transparency, etc.The right's true goals? Indeed. What are the left's true goals?

Mike

Me too. We've been lied too for far too long, on far too important issues. There are 5000 dead servicemen and women from a war that we were LIED to about. That's just the beginning. I'm not picking on Bush, nor defending Obama. Its just so far, Obama has lied to us about economics of health care, and Bush has done far worse. I'm always open to new information.

Hew
05-08-2010, 01:26 PM
You know, I really believe you guys don't give a damn about the country, so long as your team wins.
Gee, that hurts so much coming from a cheerleader for the political party who all but rooted for our defeat in Iraq. :rolleyes:

dnf777
05-08-2010, 01:40 PM
So, as an Independent in the middle you are offended by the right but OK with the progressives endeavors to make Kruschev's prediction come true.
"The proletariat is the undertaker of capitalism"

You funny!!!!:D


rk

I can see your point, from my vantage point as an independent in the middle. :D There are clearly areas where even the staunchest capitalists are "ok" with socialism. The military being the big example. Public protection, fire, police, etc...another. To what degree, and in what capacities we accept socailism is where the political lines are drawn.

I think even you will admit that when listening to some of the more radical tea-partiers, one wonders if total anarchy would be the only form of gov't that would satisfy that faction? Of course, they are offset by far lefties who want to tax the rich into the fold, and have one social and economic class for everyone.

I think both extremes are bad for everyone, and the constant political struggle will thrive in the middle ground.

depittydawg
05-08-2010, 05:02 PM
Just for ONCE, I'd like to hear a rightie say that there is a glimmer of good news, and things just MIGHT be looking up. I saw plenty of lefties and indies applaud when Bush took the megaphone at ground zero after 9-11, and put politics aside. Why can't the right be big enough to do the same when our country is in need of support, and a little positive energy? I think this is very revealing of the right's true goals. Get their people in office, even at the cost of the country's well-being, everything else be damned.

I know what you mean. But then I remember the eight years of the Bush/Cheney regime. Other than the brief moment right after 9-11, you couldn't find a lefty anywhere that would agree that ANYTHING that came out of the White House was short of a Totalitarian disaster. Even the 9-11 spark only lasted a few weeks. Once the blame started making it's circles lefties were all over the White House crowd and never went off the offensive. I know, cause I was one of them!

road kill
05-08-2010, 06:54 PM
I can see your point, from my vantage point as an independent in the middle. :D There are clearly areas where even the staunchest capitalists are "ok" with socialism. The military being the big example. Public protection, fire, police, etc...another. To what degree, and in what capacities we accept socailism is where the political lines are drawn.

I think even you will admit that when listening to some of the more radical tea-partiers, one wonders if total anarchy would be the only form of gov't that would satisfy that faction? Of course, they are offset by far lefties who want to tax the rich into the fold, and have one social and economic class for everyone.

I think both extremes are bad for everyone, and the constant political struggle will thrive in the middle ground.

Could you be honest and do me a favor?
Please quote the Tea Partier that said something you found to be extreme?

Not what Chris Matthews said they said, not what Bill Mahar said they said, but an actual quote from a Tea Partier said that is radical.

Less taxes, less Gov't., less intrusion, less spending.....not radical by any means.

I am standing bye........



rk

Cody Covey
05-08-2010, 07:52 PM
Seems like Job growth to me. The labor market is always the last to recover after a recession. As a further sign, I got a call from a Headhunter today asking me if I wanted to work for HP. Had to tell him no thanks, I like the job I have. It's been quite a while since head hunters were active. Especially in the tech fields. I take that as a positive also.

HP is hiring like crazy right now. They have jobs all over the country (and other countries) all over Dice.com Tech jobs always seem to be a real hard market because while most companies need techies they don't seem to think they need as many when the market declines. Techs are the first to go. Glad I'm a tech for agriculture marketing company. Can't really lose haha. If tech jobs are starting to come back i think that is a good sign for the economy actually.

Marvin S
05-08-2010, 08:25 PM
I know what you mean. But then I remember the eight years of the Bush/Cheney regime. Other than the brief moment right after 9-11, you couldn't find a lefty anywhere that would agree that ANYTHING that came out of the White House was short of a Totalitarian disaster. Even the 9-11 spark only lasted a few weeks. Once the blame started making it's circles lefties were all over the White House crowd and never went off the offensive. I know, cause I was one of them!

1 of the critics or 1 of the WH crowd?

M&K's Retrievers
05-08-2010, 09:17 PM
... Its just so far, Obama has lied to us about economics of health care, and Bush has done far worse. I'm always open to new information.

You think that health care is all obama has lied about? What exactly did Bush do that's worse?

depittydawg
05-08-2010, 09:33 PM
1 of the critics or 1 of the WH crowd?

I was one of the critics. Still am, but now I reserve most of my criticisms for the Obama crowd.

M&K's Retrievers
05-08-2010, 09:57 PM
I suppose buying in to and/or creating false intelligence of Weapons of Mass Destruction to start a war in Iraq, which in reality was about avenging his father's attempted assassination plans would be one of his first lie's......it may have even been his plan before his election.

You will never convince me that Bush created the WMD info to start a war to avenge the attempt on his dad. Revenge may have had an influence on his decision to invade Iraq. I don't know but I would like to think not. Bush certainly made some dumb moves but I don't believe he ever lied. obama is a liar. I'm not sure if he's a thief, but he's a liar. Not much worse than a liar. A liar that think he's a great leader and stand up comic as well.

Marvin S
05-08-2010, 10:48 PM
I was one of the critics. Still am, but now I reserve most of my criticisms for the Obama crowd.

Do you do anything to improve the situation besides bitch?

depittydawg
05-08-2010, 10:58 PM
Do you do anything to improve the situation besides bitch?

Yep. I do. How about you?

Marvin S
05-08-2010, 11:11 PM
Yep. I do. How about you?

I'm fairly good with LTTE, go to all city council meetings & council committe meetings. They don't like having me there so that tells me they have an agenda. Also ran for city council last election, would have won with 15 more votes ;-). But put a scare into the establishment.

Working right now on a watchsite, which when it's up & running should help communications.

That's just part of what I do. I also set a good example for today's liberal to emulate when they finally get some sense & make the switch.

depittydawg
05-08-2010, 11:34 PM
I'm fairly good with LTTE, go to all city council meetings & council committe meetings. They don't like having me there so that tells me they have an agenda. Also ran for city council last election, would have won with 15 more votes ;-). But put a scare into the establishment.

Working right now on a watchsite, which when it's up & running should help communications.

That's just part of what I do. I also set a good example for today's liberal to emulate when they finally get some sense & make the switch.

Impressive resume. Dang, 15 votes! That's to close. Let me know when you get your site up. By your standards, I guess I'm a loafer. I stay active. Try to get at the truth and then spread it around. I always vote, and unfortunately I'm usually disappointed. I donate money now and again. I've got a Film Study group that meets once a month. Had to quit going cause my work hours changed; but my wife still goes and keeps me abreast of everything. I should do more. You've hit my guilt button...

JDogger
05-08-2010, 11:43 PM
I'm fairly good with LTTE, go to all city council meetings & council committe meetings. They don't like having me there so that tells me they have an agenda. Also ran for city council last election, would have won with 15 more votes ;-). But put a scare into the establishment.

Working right now on a watchsite, which when it's up & running should help communications.

That's just part of what I do. I also set a good example for today's liberal to emulate when they finally get some sense & make the switch.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047296/quotes

Where have we heard Marvin before???

JD

david gibson
05-09-2010, 12:08 AM
They sent Colin Powell to capitol hill with bad information, and as soon as Colin realized he had been duped he left.........Obama is doing a fine job under very tough circumstances....the economy is improving, major health care reform has passed, he has restored the respect for the USA that was destroyed by Bush, a major recession was headed off due to quick and bold actions, financial reform and controls to prevent a re-occurrence is underway, everything he is doing was in his campaign; there is much more to be accomplished.

Bush inherited a good financial situation when he was elected.....he promptly cut taxes for the wealthy, let Wall Street and big banks run wild, and spent so damn much money it almost ruined us....plus he snubbed his nose at other world leaders which caused respect for our country to decline in a huge way.

sounds like Oklahoma has a good strain of X and/or LSD going around!

M&K's Retrievers
05-09-2010, 12:53 AM
They sent Colin Powell to capitol hill with bad information, and as soon as Colin realized he had been duped he left.........Obama is doing a fine job under very tough circumstances Not according to the polls....the economy is improving In what way?, major health care reform has passed A major disaster that the majority of the country wants repealed , he has restored the respect for the USA that was destroyed by Bush respect from who? Islam?, a major recession was headed off due to quick and bold actions The recession is still here with no evidence of slowing down , financial reform and controls to prevent a re-occurrence is underway, Going to control his major contributor and adviser pool? everything he is doing was in his campaign;Transparency? there is much more to be accomplished Your right. Get his lying socialist ass out in 2012 before he ruins this country.

Bush inherited a good financial situation when he was elected.....he promptly cut taxes for the wealthy, let Wall Street and big banks run wild Exactly how did Bush do this all by himself?, and spent so damn much money it almost ruined us....plus he snubbed his nose at other world leaders which caused respect for our country to decline in a huge way obama is the king of snubbing world leaders except for communists and those he bows to.

.................

depittydawg
05-09-2010, 01:24 AM
You will never convince me that Bush created the WMD info to start a war to avenge the attempt on his dad. Revenge may have had an influence on his decision to invade Iraq. I don't know but I would like to think not. Bush certainly made some dumb moves but I don't believe he ever lied. obama is a liar. I'm not sure if he's a thief, but he's a liar. Not much worse than a liar. A liar that think he's a great leader and stand up comic as well.

I see Bush as somewhat innocent. He surrounded himself with very strong leaders and for the most part men who had their own agenda's. The main influence on him was Dick Cheney. There were as many reasons for invading Iraq as their were players in the White House.
Looking through the rear view mirror now, I think Cheney was the Commander Guy. Forever behind the scenes pulling the strings of the easily manipulated Bush. Cheney's motive was profit first. Profit for himself, and his Company, Haliburton. Other key players had their own motives. Karl Rove was another very strong influence on the President. Roves objectives seem to have been to use a War to consolidate power within the White House. Donald Rumsfeld was probably driven by the opportunity to expand his own personal power and influence and earn a place in history.
I think Bush was easily manipulated by these men and the forces they brought to bear on a President who really preferred to delegate than to be involved. Bush was probably convinced Iraq had WMD and they posed a threat to the US. He trusted Cheney and deferred the heavy decisions to the Vice President. My opinion of course. It will be interesting to see what kind of Bio's emerge over the next 10 - 20 years.

YardleyLabs
05-09-2010, 06:30 AM
You think that health care is all obama has lied about? What exactly did Bush do that's worse?
To keep things in the same vein, he lied about, and concealed, the cost of the war, he lied about the cost of the Medicare prescription program, and he lied about the cost of both sets of tax cuts.

dnf777
05-09-2010, 06:53 AM
I see Bush as somewhat innocent. He surrounded himself with very strong leaders and for the most part men who had their own agenda's. The main influence on him was Dick Cheney. There were as many reasons for invading Iraq as their were players in the White House.
Looking through the rear view mirror now, I think Cheney was the Commander Guy. Forever behind the scenes pulling the strings of the easily manipulated Bush. Cheney's motive was profit first. Profit for himself, and his Company, Haliburton. Other key players had their own motives. Karl Rove was another very strong influence on the President. Roves objectives seem to have been to use a War to consolidate power within the White House. Donald Rumsfeld was probably driven by the opportunity to expand his own personal power and influence and earn a place in history.
I think Bush was easily manipulated by these men and the forces they brought to bear on a President who really preferred to delegate than to be involved. Bush was probably convinced Iraq had WMD and they posed a threat to the US. He trusted Cheney and deferred the heavy decisions to the Vice President. My opinion of course. It will be interesting to see what kind of Bio's emerge over the next 10 - 20 years.

I think that's about the best assessment of Bush's presidency I've heard. Although, he DID want to wear the daddy pants, so he must accept responsibility for his watch. If not for screwing up everything he attempted, for allowing powerful men around him to mislead him. I thought he handled 9-11 well, right up until he pulled the bait-and-switch and decided to invade and occupy a third, uninvolved nation.

I do not believe it was to avenge his father. Not merely for Haliburton profit. I don't believe they actually thought there were WMDs there. I offer no explanation as to why we invaded Iraq, and destabilized that region. I do know when things don't make sense, usually the almighty dollar will lead you to the answer. And look at who profited immensely off this war. (and unfortunately for too many, who paid for it.) Although I did find it odd to hear Bush on more than a few occasions boldly refer to himself as the "war president."

road kill
05-09-2010, 08:49 AM
Could you be honest and do me a favor?
Please quote the Tea Partier that said something you found to be extreme?

Not what Chris Matthews said they said, not what Bill Mahar said they said, but an actual quote from a Tea Partier said that is radical.

Less taxes, less Gov't., less intrusion, less spending.....not radical by any means.

I am standing by........



rk
Still standing by!!!:D



rk

dnf777
05-09-2010, 09:09 AM
How 'bout the Hitler depictions of Obama? All the socialism/fascist signs? Death squads?
You may agree with them, but that makes them no less extreme.
I forgot carrying semi-automatic assault rifles to rallies.
Yes, legally. I fully support the right to keep and bear arms.
I believe it is my right to carry an AR-15 with banana clips, fully loaded to my son's cub-scout meetings, but that would be a little extreme, wouldn't it? And I would never do it.
Please note that I did not say EVERYONE at teabag parties is extreme, merely that I think you would agree that some are.

road kill
05-09-2010, 09:33 AM
How 'bout the Hitler depictions of Obama? All the socialism/fascist signs? Death squads?
You may agree with them, but that makes them no less extreme.
I forgot carrying semi-automatic assault rifles to rallies.
Yes, legally. I fully support the right to keep and bear arms.
I believe it is my right to carry an AR-15 with banana clips, fully loaded to my son's cub-scout meetings, but that would be a little extreme, wouldn't it? And I would never do it.
Please note that I did not say EVERYONE at teabag parties is extreme, merely that I think you would agree that some are.

I honestly have personally seen nothig at a Tea Party event or on TV that is as far to the right as Obama, Emanuel, Sunstein, Sharpton, Pelosi, and Holder are to the left!!:D

(want some quotes??)




rk

road kill
05-09-2010, 10:21 AM
I honestly have personally seen nothig at a Tea Party event or on TV that is as far to the right as Obama, Emanuel, Sunstein, Sharpton, Pelosi, and Holder are to the left!!:D

(want some quotes??)




rk

Here is the kind of quote I find radical;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s

And this;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arthur-goldwag/cass-sunsteins-thought-po_b_453562.html

Your thoughts?




rk

david gibson
05-09-2010, 11:09 AM
How 'bout the Hitler depictions of Obama? All the socialism/fascist signs? Death squads?
You may agree with them, but that makes them no less extreme.
I forgot carrying semi-automatic assault rifles to rallies.
Yes, legally. I fully support the right to keep and bear arms.
I believe it is my right to carry an AR-15 with banana clips, fully loaded to my son's cub-scout meetings, but that would be a little extreme, wouldn't it? And I would never do it.
Please note that I did not say EVERYONE at teabag parties is extreme, merely that I think you would agree that some are.

there you go again, calling extreme what the right does to obama when it was all also done to bush - and worse.

and you have to use "teabag" too? i thought you were above that. well,
actually, i didnt. thanks for proving how low you really are.... ;-)

Blackstone
05-09-2010, 12:44 PM
there you go again, calling extreme what the right does to obama when it was all also done to bush - and worse.

I don't ever remember Bush being depicted that negatively, but even if he was, does that make it okay to do it to Obama?

depittydawg
05-09-2010, 12:51 PM
I honestly have personally seen nothig at a Tea Party event or on TV that is as far to the right as Obama, Emanuel, Sunstein, Sharpton, Pelosi, and Holder are to the left!!:D

(want some quotes??)




rk

From the vantage point from someone who is on the 'left', I'm curious what Obama has done that places him anywhere left of center on the political spectrum. His first year in office he did precisely what the Bush administration had already laid out for the economy. He enacted a pro-industry healthcare reform. He has not changed the energy policy, even opening up the Atlantic coast for drilling. He has continued the exact same foreign war policies, drawing down on one, while escalating the other. He placed a moderate on the Supreme court, not a liberal. He has spent money in a fashion that puts him on target with Reagan and Bush. Now, please give an example of something this administration has done that is left of center.

road kill
05-09-2010, 01:17 PM
From the vantage point from someone who is on the 'left', I'm curious what Obama has done that places him anywhere left of center on the political spectrum. His first year in office he did precisely what the Bush administration had already laid out for the economy. He enacted a pro-industry healthcare reform. He has not changed the energy policy, even opening up the Atlantic coast for drilling. He has continued the exact same foreign war policies, drawing down on one, while escalating the other. He placed a moderate on the Supreme court, not a liberal. He has spent money in a fashion that puts him on target with Reagan and Bush. Now, please give an example of something this administration has done that is left of center.

For starters, who hired Emanuel, Sunstein, Holder etc.???:D






rk

Marvin S
05-09-2010, 01:34 PM
From the vantage point from someone who is on the 'left', I'm curious what Obama has done that places him anywhere left of center on the political spectrum. His first year in office he did precisely what the Bush administration had already laid out for the economy. He enacted a pro-industry healthcare reform. He has not changed the energy policy, even opening up the Atlantic coast for drilling. He has continued the exact same foreign war policies, drawing down on one, while escalating the other. He placed a moderate on the Supreme court, not a liberal. He has spent money in a fashion that puts him on target with Reagan and Bush. Now, please give an example of something this administration has done that is left of center.

BTW, Neither of whom are in the running for Fiscal Conservative of the Decade or Century :(.

road kill
05-09-2010, 02:35 PM
That bump in unemployment, despite job growth, is because many unemployed that we just quit counting after being out of work for so long, have re-entered the job hunt now that there's some hope, thus bumping the rate. Actually, it stayed nearly the same, despite job growth.

This is good news for America. Not over yet, but at least headed in the right direction for the first time in about 10 years.


I'm still not convinced this latest flash-crash wasn't a cyber-attack. Did anyone else find is unsettling how Fox, MSNBC, CNBC, and CNN ALL had the exact same jovial "what the heck happened--fat finger--chuckling" approach to this?? When have they EVER all taken the same angle on a major event? I have this nagging feeling they were all asked to take this nonplussed approach to avoid major panic and sell-off if word of true economic vulnerability manifested this week. Just a thought. But wierd how ALL networks agreed, and seemed to downplay, eh?

1st: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/09/AR2010050901238.html
"The increased global anxiety threatens to slow the recovery in the United States, where job growth has finally picked up after the deepest recession since the Great Depression. It could also inhibit consumer spending as stock portfolios shrink and loans are harder to come by.

Its not just a European problem, its the U.S., Japan and the U.K. right now, said Ian Kelson, a bond fund manager in London with T. Rowe Price. Its across the board.



2nd: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/business/global/09ripple.html?hp


White House sees no cyber attack on Wall Street
By DANIEL WAGNER
The Associated Press
Sunday, May 9, 2010; 12:45 PM

WASHINGTON -- The White House's homeland security and counterterrorism adviser says there is no evidence that a cyber attack was behind the chaos that shook Wall Street last Thursday.

John Brennan told "Fox News Sunday" that officials have uncovered no links suggesting that cyber attacks caused turbulence that sent the Dow Jones industrials plunging almost 1,000 points before staging a partial recovery at the end of the day.

The market already was weak because of the spreading European debt crisis. Some have speculated that a typographical error might have triggered the massive computerized sell-off.




Something about this just doesn't sit right with me.
rk

david gibson
05-09-2010, 03:10 PM
there you go again, calling extreme what the right does to obama when it was all also done to bush - and worse.

and you have to use "teabag" too? i thought you were above that. well,
actually, i didnt. thanks for proving how low you really are.... ;-)

are you serious? vanity fair - a national publication., printed the picture of bush made up as the evil joker 2 years ago. and you guys get mad at a few signs at a tea party? google around, it should bring back memories for you. but again, for you liberals its only freedom of speech when you agree to it.

people called him a liar and everything else, the vitriol was unprecedented. does it make it right to do the same to Obama? in a perfect world, no, but it dang sure feels good for those of us who despise him as much as we do. i didnt see you defending bush then, did i? the hypocrisy of you lefties is never ending.

the fact that you use the term "teabag" says it all bro. you went down even further in my eyes.

by the way, i get so many high-5's when i wear this shirt in public. not just to tea parties and Freedom concerts, i wear it in the airport on business travel and around town now. mass-production of these babies are coming soon! i am thinking obama on front, pelosi on back - any thoughts? or should i make pelosi-only and obama-only shirts?

http://www.outdoorsphotographyusa.com/obamaeaglemed2.jpg

road kill
05-09-2010, 03:21 PM
That is what is called "confirmation bias" and we all are burdened by confirmation bias.
From my seat I think Obama is governing from the middle. All this talk about "socialism" and "unconstitutional" is BS. The president is a constitutional law expert and scholar, I doubt he would have pursued that profession and been a professor of same if he was not in agreement with the constitution. Some drastic actions have been necessary, the need for drastic actions can and should be blamed on the greed, lack of ethics, and unlawful activities of the largest corporations in this country (health insurance, financial industry, energy industry, etc., etc.) - they have blown their chance for no strict regulation over and over and over!That is a shame because I believe in free market capitalism but circumstances dictate that government protect its citizens from this unsavory activity just like the government should defend its citizens from all foreign enemies that pose a threat.

That line is getting worn out.






rk

Marvin S
05-09-2010, 04:58 PM
That line is getting worn out.


So is the one below :rolleyes:.


From my seat I think Obama is governing from the middle.

BwaaaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa - A fairly accurate statement, considering where you sit. In a 5 hole outhouse you would still go outside as no seat would be left enough for you :o.


but circumstances dictate that government protect its citizens from this unsavory activity just like the government should defend its citizens from all foreign enemies that pose a threat.

The issue is protecting the citizens from those within who would do harm to our country & it's traditions, IMO.

Koolaid
05-09-2010, 05:10 PM
are you serious? vanity fair - a national publication., printed the picture of bush made up as the evil joker 2 years ago. and you guys get mad at a few signs at a tea party? google around, it should bring back memories for you. but again, for you liberals its only freedom of speech when you agree to it.

people called him a liar and everything else, the vitriol was unprecedented. does it make it right to do the same to Obama? in a perfect world, no, but it dang sure feels good for those of us who despise him as much as we do. i didnt see you defending bush then, did i? the hypocrisy of you lefties is never ending.

the fact that you use the term "teabag" says it all bro. you went down even further in my eyes.

by the way, i get so many high-5's when i wear this shirt in public. not just to tea parties and Freedom concerts, i wear it in the airport on business travel and around town now. mass-production of these babies are coming soon! i am thinking obama on front, pelosi on back - any thoughts? or should i make pelosi-only and obama-only shirts?

http://www.outdoorsphotographyusa.com/obamaeaglemed2.jpg

A little tipsy at the moment. The shirt is hilarious for real. Just curious as to what liquid that is. And where it's coming from. I'm not fully educated in eagle anatomy.

subroc
05-09-2010, 05:48 PM
...From my seat I think Obama is governing from the middle....



...BwaaaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa - A fairly accurate statement, considering where you sit. In a 5 hole outhouse you would still go outside as no seat would be left enough for you :o.

:D chuckling :D

david gibson
05-09-2010, 06:25 PM
A little tipsy at the moment. The shirt is hilarious for real. Just curious as to what liquid that is. And where it's coming from. I'm not fully educated in eagle anatomy.

trust me, except for the obvious photoshop of "the messiah", its totally natural.

thats how a bald eagle takes "democrat"

dnf777
05-09-2010, 08:25 PM
1st: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/09/AR2010050901238.html
"The increased global anxiety threatens to slow the recovery in the United States, where job growth has finally picked up after the deepest recession since the Great Depression. It could also inhibit consumer spending as stock portfolios shrink and loans are harder to come by.

Its not just a European problem, its the U.S., Japan and the U.K. right now, said Ian Kelson, a bond fund manager in London with T. Rowe Price. Its across the board.



2nd: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/business/global/09ripple.html?hp


White House sees no cyber attack on Wall Street
By DANIEL WAGNER
The Associated Press
Sunday, May 9, 2010; 12:45 PM

WASHINGTON -- The White House's homeland security and counterterrorism adviser says there is no evidence that a cyber attack was behind the chaos that shook Wall Street last Thursday.

John Brennan told "Fox News Sunday" that officials have uncovered no links suggesting that cyber attacks caused turbulence that sent the Dow Jones industrials plunging almost 1,000 points before staging a partial recovery at the end of the day.

The market already was weak because of the spreading European debt crisis. Some have speculated that a typographical error might have triggered the massive computerized sell-off.




Something about this just doesn't sit right with me.
rk

Did we just agree on something?? :D

dnf777
05-09-2010, 08:31 PM
and you have to use "teabag" too? i thought you were above that. well,
actually, i didnt. thanks for proving how low you really are.... ;-)

Uh, newsflash for ya......it was first heard and laughed at when a teapartier made that claim! Can't remember who....Boehner? I'm just repeating what I heard.

You show a picture of an eagle sh!##ing on our president, and you call ME low??? LMAO!!! I don't disrespect the president. May disagree with him, but I try to show a little respect.

M&K's Retrievers
05-09-2010, 08:33 PM
..... but I try to show a little respect.

The Office, yes. The man, he has yet to earn it.

badbullgator
05-09-2010, 08:49 PM
Why is there a string coming out of the eagles ass?

Koolaid
05-09-2010, 08:58 PM
trust me, except for the obvious photoshop of "the messiah", its totally natural.

thats how a bald eagle takes "democrat"

Not gonna lie I just google image searched an eagle taking a "democrat". Quite accurate hahahahaha...

david gibson
05-09-2010, 10:30 PM
Why is there a string coming out of the eagles ass?
you are joking, right?