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pat addis
05-22-2010, 08:07 AM
please tell me about the international small arms treaty that obama supports.the way i understand it it allows the un to make and enforce gun control laws.if true you can't support this can you? please don't tell me it means nothing becouse the senate won't pass it,the point is the saviour is for it

Eric Johnson
05-22-2010, 08:59 AM
What you have heard is totally false. What the treaty does is limit the sale of weapons in an international setting. I suppose it's a violation of the 2nd Amendment rights of Congolese.

However, you are correct. The Senate has to pass (advise and consent) on any treaty for it to be ratified and the President to sign it. Senate passage requires a 2/3 majority....67 votes.

However, this is tempered by a concept called an "executive agreement" in the international setting. These are agreements simply signed by the President. While these have been upheld by courts in the past, there is a growing argument that these are actually not constitutional but the right court case has not come along to test this.

Eric

pat addis
05-22-2010, 10:37 AM
it is now known as the arms trade treaty the us voted to go forward with this treaty on 10-30-09

Eric Johnson
05-22-2010, 12:54 PM
You're not getting the complete story....

>> In 2009 UN member states, led by the UK and co-authors including Australia, endorsed a resolution to negotiate the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT), “a legally binding instrument on the highest possible common international standards for the transfer of conventional arms”. The Treaty is to be negotiated in a series of preparatory committees leading up to a negotiating conference in 2012. At the insistence of the United States, the negotiating conference must agree on the treaty text by consensus, casting doubt on whether UN member states will be able to develop text that is strong enough to be effective.

It is unlikely that anything of real substance will come of this. Every country must agree to the terms and the United States Senate still would come into play. Think of the Climate Change Conference in Denmark last December.

Eric

subroc
05-22-2010, 01:03 PM
get out of the UN now!

YardleyLabs
05-22-2010, 09:38 PM
please tell me about the international small arms treaty that obama supports.the way i understand it it allows the un to make and enforce gun control laws.if true you can't support this can you? please don't tell me it means nothing becouse the senate won't pass it,the point is the saviour is for it
Not dodging your question Pat, but i have been out all day (actually for most of four days) doing doggy stuff of all things -- go figure.:( I think Eric summed it up well. Treaties have the force of law only if they are ratified by the Senate --- requiring a 67 vote majority. While Presidents have executed many agreements without ratification (for example, the Bush agreements to place missile defense weapons in Eastern Europe that were canceled by Obama.). These do not carry the force of law. However, not even a ratified treaty can trump the Constitution.

I would actually love to see international agreements limiting the arms trade, even though that would negatively affect US businesses.