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M&K's Retrievers
06-01-2010, 10:21 AM
Interesting opinion:

www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/the_smallest_president_1.html

huntinman
06-01-2010, 11:24 AM
Interesting opinion:

www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/the_smallest_president_1.html

Hit the nail on the head...

Franco
06-01-2010, 04:47 PM
The experiment is over and it is a big failure.

Next time, lets at least get someone in the White House with business experience.

YardleyLabs
06-01-2010, 06:28 PM
The experiment is over and it is a big failure.

Next time, lets at least get someone in the White House with business experience.
What post 19th century Presidents do you believe have been great (or at least very good) and which of those had a track record of substantial business experience?

Here's my take....

Theodore Roosevelt: Born into wealth and never worked in any normal sense. Made his Presidential reputation as a trust buster.

William Taft: Generally viewed as a failure as a President. Worked his way into the Presidency through a legal practice, judgeships, and positions as a governmental administrator. No business experience.

Woodrow Wilson: Professor and then Dean of Princeton, before becoming New Jersey Governor and then President.

Warren G. Harding: Newspaper publisher and director for many businesses (not actually an executive). Managed to oversee one of the most business and corruption friendly administrations in history with policies that had a great deal to do with our subsequent crash into the Great Depression.

Calvin Coolidge: After receiving his l;aw degree, practiced little except politics on his way to the Presidency.

Herbert Hoover: Began his career as a mining engineer working primarily in China. He was noted for administrative skills he developed largely working for government in the war effort ad in the post war period. May have been one of our more competent Presidents and one of the most inappropriate to the time in which he served.

Franklin D. Roosevelt: Like his older cousin Teddy, FDR was born into his money and served as a gentleman politician, working up through the ranks in New York before emerging on the national scene. Whatever one's opinion on his legacy, almost all would agree that his administration was one of the most effective (as in having an effect on the country's direction and culture) Presidents in our history.

Harry S. Truman: No business experience other than that of a farmer in Independence, MO. His political career began with a judgeship and progressed from there onto the national scene.

Dwight D. Eisenhower: Prior to becoming President, Ike's entire career had been with the military from his attendance and graduation from West Point, to his service as Supreme Allied Commander.

John F. Kennedy: Harvard, military, congressman, senator, author and President. Lots of family money and no business experience.

Lyndon B. Johnson: Nothing but politics in LBJ's background. Campaigning for local offices, Congress, brief tour in the military, Senate, Vice President and the President. He was born poor, and studied to be a teacher, but was never involved in business.

Richard M. Nixon: Another attorney gone bad. Law practice to military, to Congressman, then V.P. After losing his first race, Nixon's business for the next eight years was running for reelection.

Gerald Ford: One of our true accidental Presidents, since he was never elected to the office. Ford was pure politician throughout his career.

Jimmy Carter: While Carter's career was focused on politics almost from the beginning, he was involved in running the peanut farming business as well. Seven years in the military, eight years in state politics, election as Governor, and then as President brought him to the white house. Hew was never what would have been considered a businessman.

Ronald Reagan: Radio announcer calling baseball games, screen actor, and on to Governor of California before going to Washington. Also not a businessman.

George H. W. Bush: Finally, our first businessman President in the 20th century. His business career in the West Texas oil industry helped the family fortune. He entered politics with a couple terms as a congressman followed by failed campaigns for the Senate and the Presidency. He became VP and inherited the mantel from Reagan only to be dumped by the general electorate and much of his own party after one term. His biggest sin was applying silly business logic about paying our bills even if that meant raising taxes.

William Clinton: Always a politician, never a businessman.

George W. Bush: Definitely had some business experience, but most of it was a spin-off from his father's election as President. It's not clear that he ever ran anything except downhill.

Barack Obama: A brief stint on Wall Street, followed by work as college professor, attorney, and community organizer where he directed some non-profits. Made what money he has by writing books while taking the fast road through local politics, state politics, the Senate and then the White House, expedited by a miserably failed predecessor and a great keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention.

Business experience has not produced very good Presidents in the past, largely because it has also not produced people who are effective politicians at lower levels. Maybe there is a good reason for that.

david gibson
06-01-2010, 06:32 PM
What post 19th century Presidents do you believe have been great (or at least very good) and which of those had a track record of substantial business experience?

Here's my take....

Theodore Roosevelt: Born into wealth and never worked in any normal sense. Made his Presidential reputation as a trust buster.

William Taft: Generally viewed as a failure as a President. Worked his way into the Presidency through a legal practice, judgeships, and positions as a governmental administrator. No business experience.

Woodrow Wilson: Professor and then Dean of Princeton, before becoming New Jersey Governor and then President.

Warren G. Harding: Newspaper publisher and director for many businesses (not actually an executive). Managed to oversee one of the most business and corruption friendly administrations in history with policies that had a great deal to do with our subsequent crash into the Great Depression.

Calvin Coolidge: After receiving his l;aw degree, practiced little except politics on his way to the Presidency.

Herbert Hoover: Began his career as a mining engineer working primarily in China. He was noted for administrative skills he developed largely working for government in the war effort ad in the post war period. May have been one of our more competent Presidents and one of the most inappropriate to the time in which he served.

Franklin D. Roosevelt: Like his older cousin Teddy, FDR was born into his money and served as a gentleman politician, working up through the ranks in New York before emerging on the national scene. Whatever one's opinion on his legacy, almost all would agree that his administration was one of the most effective (as in having an effect on the country's direction and culture) Presidents in our history.

Harry S. Truman: No business experience other than that of a farmer in Independence, MO. His political career began with a judgeship and progressed from there onto the national scene.

Dwight D. Eisenhower: Prior to becoming President, Ike's entire career had been with the military from his attendance and graduation from West Point, to his service as Supreme Allied Commander.

John F. Kennedy: Harvard, military, congressman, senator, author and President. Lots of family money and no business experience.

Lyndon B. Johnson: Nothing but politics in LBJ's background. Campaigning for local offices, Congress, brief tour in the military, Senate, Vice President and the President. He was born poor, and studied to be a teacher, but was never involved in business.

Richard M. Nixon: Another attorney gone bad. Law practice to military, to Congressman, then V.P. After losing his first race, Nixon's business for the next eight years was running for reelection.

Gerald Ford: One of our true accidental Presidents, since he was never elected to the office. Ford was pure politician throughout his career.

Jimmy Carter: While Carter's career was focused on politics almost from the beginning, he was involved in running the peanut farming business as well. Seven years in the military, eight years in state politics, election as Governor, and then as President brought him to the white house. Hew was never what would have been considered a businessman.

Ronald Reagan: Radio announcer calling baseball games, screen actor, and on to Governor of California before going to Washington. Also not a businessman.

George H. W. Bush: Finally, our first businessman President in the 20th century. His business career in the West Texas oil industry helped the family fortune. He entered politics with a couple terms as a congressman followed by failed campaigns for the Senate and the Presidency. He became VP and inherited the mantel from Reagan only to be dumped by the general electorate and much of his own party after one term. His biggest sin was applying silly business logic about paying our bills even if that meant raising taxes.

William Clinton: Always a politician, never a businessman.

George W. Bush: Definitely had some business experience, but most of it was a spin-off from his father's election as President. It's not clear that he ever ran anything except downhill.

Barack Obama: A brief stint on Wall Street, followed by work as college professor, attorney, and community organizer where he directed some non-profits. Made what money he has by writing books while taking the fast road through local politics, state politics, the Senate and then the White House, expedited by a miserably failed predecessor and a great keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention.

Business experience has not produced very good Presidents in the past, largely because it has also not produced people who are effective politicians at lower levels. Maybe there is a good reason for that.

you wasted all that time defending your chosen one? dont you have a dog to train?

YardleyLabs
06-01-2010, 06:41 PM
you wasted all that time defending your chosen one? dont you have a dog to train?
Don't worry David, They are being trained. I am at home with a fever. One of my girls was just bred and will spend a few more days of quiet time. One just finished weaning her pups and I will restart her training tomorrow. Two are down at my trainer's: one to be ready for her next qualifying trial (she JAM'd her last bringing her to three ribbons in seven outings), and one who is going through her basics and will hopefully be running derbies this fall. I will work with both of them when I am there tomorrow and Saturday. BTW, where did I defend anyone in my presentation?

david gibson
06-01-2010, 06:55 PM
Don't worry David, They are being trained. I am at home with a fever. One of my girls was just bred and will spend a few more days of quiet time. One just finished weaning her pups and I will restart her training tomorrow. Two are down at my trainer's: one to be ready for her next qualifying trial (she JAM'd her last bringing her to three ribbons in seven outings), and one who is going through her basics and will hopefully be running derbies this fall. I will work with both of them when I am there tomorrow and Saturday. BTW, where did I defend anyone in my presentation?

that explains it all. carry on! ;-)

and come on, you should know me well enough by nowthat i am not at all impressed by how well anyones dogs are doing if they are trained by a pro so i dont care about yours. i am all about 100% amateur training and handling. getting a HRCH 100% on my own means multitudes more to me than spending 10's of $K's to get a derby point or a AA jam. ho-hum. may as well have polo ponies. an elitist leftist - wow! you'd fit right in on Rodeo drive!

depittydawg
06-01-2010, 07:28 PM
The experiment is over and it is a big failure.

Next time, lets at least get someone in the White House with business experience.

I'm guessing their will be a CEO and a lot of executives available with lots of experience from BP shortly. You wanna hire them?

YardleyLabs
06-01-2010, 08:04 PM
that explains it all. carry on! ;-)

and come on, you should know me well enough by nowthat i am not at all impressed by how well anyones dogs are doing if they are trained by a pro so i dont care about yours. i am all about 100% amateur training and handling. getting a HRCH 100% on my own means multitudes more to me than spending 10's of $K's to get a derby point or a AA jam. ho-hum. may as well have polo ponies. an elitist leftist - wow! you'd fit right in on Rodeo drive!
If I were more competent and had more time, I would. Unfortunately, I fall short on both. Placing a dog with a pro gave me the opportunity to learn on a day to day basis in a way I never could have done with a DVD. Training groups helped but were not enough. I trained my derby dog and another through hunt test level before my first visit with a pro. What he has helped me do, I could never have done otherwise. With my next pup (possibly from my current litter) I will try to do the whole thing myself, but will still be relying on my pro for advice and land access and I suspect will not go beyond hunt tests. I could never match his 1000+ acres of land and ponds designed for training, not to mention his experience and the fact that he works sevens days per week making the pieces come together.

For me it is all about the dogs and my ability to share in their lives as they share in mine. One of the nice things about this sport, like our country in general, is that we each get a lot of freedom to choose our own ways to pursue happiness. I am not a hunter, and came to this sport through my love of retrievers and my amazement in watching them at work in competition.

I've never owned polo ponies. However, when married, I did have four horses -- one for each member of my family -- and my wife, daughter and I routinely did foxhunting. You can call that elitist if you wish. However, I learned to ride horses in Brooklyn and one of the women we rode with -- a single mother of three children -- called her horse "overtime" since that was how she paid its board. People come to our sports from many different backgrounds and even the fanciest of pinstripe suits may have started with blue collars. You might want to reserve judgment when you know so little about those you judge.

Franco
06-01-2010, 09:06 PM
What post 19th century Presidents do you believe have been great (or at least very good) and which of those had a track record of substantial business experience?

Here's my take....

Theodore Roosevelt: Born into wealth and never worked in any normal sense. Made his Presidential reputation as a trust buster.

William Taft: Generally viewed as a failure as a President. Worked his way into the Presidency through a legal practice, judgeships, and positions as a governmental administrator. No business experience.

Woodrow Wilson: Professor and then Dean of Princeton, before becoming New Jersey Governor and then President.

Warren G. Harding: Newspaper publisher and director for many businesses (not actually an executive). Managed to oversee one of the most business and corruption friendly administrations in history with policies that had a great deal to do with our subsequent crash into the Great Depression.

Calvin Coolidge: After receiving his l;aw degree, practiced little except politics on his way to the Presidency.

Herbert Hoover: Began his career as a mining engineer working primarily in China. He was noted for administrative skills he developed largely working for government in the war effort ad in the post war period. May have been one of our more competent Presidents and one of the most inappropriate to the time in which he served.

Franklin D. Roosevelt: Like his older cousin Teddy, FDR was born into his money and served as a gentleman politician, working up through the ranks in New York before emerging on the national scene. Whatever one's opinion on his legacy, almost all would agree that his administration was one of the most effective (as in having an effect on the country's direction and culture) Presidents in our history.

Harry S. Truman: No business experience other than that of a farmer in Independence, MO. His political career began with a judgeship and progressed from there onto the national scene.

Dwight D. Eisenhower: Prior to becoming President, Ike's entire career had been with the military from his attendance and graduation from West Point, to his service as Supreme Allied Commander.

John F. Kennedy: Harvard, military, congressman, senator, author and President. Lots of family money and no business experience.

Lyndon B. Johnson: Nothing but politics in LBJ's background. Campaigning for local offices, Congress, brief tour in the military, Senate, Vice President and the President. He was born poor, and studied to be a teacher, but was never involved in business.

Richard M. Nixon: Another attorney gone bad. Law practice to military, to Congressman, then V.P. After losing his first race, Nixon's business for the next eight years was running for reelection.

Gerald Ford: One of our true accidental Presidents, since he was never elected to the office. Ford was pure politician throughout his career.

Jimmy Carter: While Carter's career was focused on politics almost from the beginning, he was involved in running the peanut farming business as well. Seven years in the military, eight years in state politics, election as Governor, and then as President brought him to the white house. Hew was never what would have been considered a businessman.

Ronald Reagan: Radio announcer calling baseball games, screen actor, and on to Governor of California before going to Washington. Also not a businessman.

George H. W. Bush: Finally, our first businessman President in the 20th century. His business career in the West Texas oil industry helped the family fortune. He entered politics with a couple terms as a congressman followed by failed campaigns for the Senate and the Presidency. He became VP and inherited the mantel from Reagan only to be dumped by the general electorate and much of his own party after one term. His biggest sin was applying silly business logic about paying our bills even if that meant raising taxes.

William Clinton: Always a politician, never a businessman.

George W. Bush: Definitely had some business experience, but most of it was a spin-off from his father's election as President. It's not clear that he ever ran anything except downhill.

Barack Obama: A brief stint on Wall Street, followed by work as college professor, attorney, and community organizer where he directed some non-profits. Made what money he has by writing books while taking the fast road through local politics, state politics, the Senate and then the White House, expedited by a miserably failed predecessor and a great keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention.

Business experience has not produced very good Presidents in the past, largely because it has also not produced people who are effective politicians at lower levels. Maybe there is a good reason for that.

Harry Truman worked for a habadasher so, he had to learn how to sell. ;-)

YardleyLabs
06-01-2010, 09:14 PM
Harry Truman worked for a habadasher so, he had to learn how to sell. ;-)
I didn't include it since the business failed very shortly after he and his partner created it, a victim of the 1919 recession. He actually also worked part time in a bank for a brief period during his "twon" year in Independence.:D Not exactly an illustrious business career.

M&K's Retrievers
06-02-2010, 12:03 AM
Jeff, you know that all good executives surround themselves with experienced people to help/advise them in the pursuit of their duties. Who has obama surrounded himself with and what is their experience?

YardleyLabs
06-02-2010, 06:18 AM
Jeff, you know that all good executives surround themselves with experienced people to help/advise them in the pursuit of their duties. Who has obama surrounded himself with and what is their experience?
He's actually got a lot of talent there from many different arenas. He would have even more if Mitch McConnell were not using personal privilege to hold up 80 appointments because he objects to the appointment of a labor friendly person to the NLRB.

Gerry Clinchy
06-02-2010, 06:19 AM
Business experience has not produced very good Presidents in the past, largely because it has also not produced people who are effective politicians at lower levels. Maybe there is a good reason for that.

How could we come to that conclusion when only one of the Presidents in the past 100 years+ that you listed had business experience? (Bush I). In fact, in your words ...


His biggest sin was applying silly business logic about paying our bills even if that meant raising taxes.


In this case, it was not necessarily the President who "failed" in his responsibility to assess what needed to be done & do what needed to be done ... it was, rather, the politicians and populace who could not accept the pain of what needed to be done?

M&K's Retrievers
06-02-2010, 07:45 AM
He's actually got a lot of talent there from many different arenas. He would have even more if Mitch McConnell were not using personal privilege to hold up 80 appointments because he objects to the appointment of a labor friendly person to the NLRB.

And that would be?