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david gibson
06-15-2010, 06:16 PM
and take some dramamine - you got a lot of spinning to do!

Louisianans are in the best position of anyone to make this assertion:

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/15/poll-louisianans-think-bush-did-better-on-katrina-than-obamas-doing-on-the-oil-spill/

and like they said - "Devastating. Especially since it comes from left-leaning pollster PPP."


so, whether right or wrong, this pretty much cements it as Obamas Katrina - it will always be known as that.....forever....

road kill
06-15-2010, 06:35 PM
and take some dramamine - you got a lot of spinning to do!

Louisianans are in the best position of anyone to make this assertion:

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/15/poll-louisianans-think-bush-did-better-on-katrina-than-obamas-doing-on-the-oil-spill/

and like they said - "Devastating. Especially since it comes from left-leaning pollster PPP."


so, whether right or wrong, this pretty much cements it as Obamas Katrina - it will always be known as that.....forever....

I did actually hear a positive about President Obama today.


He has made Jimmy Carter the 2nd worst Prersident ever!!;-)


rk

Franco
06-15-2010, 07:52 PM
The only folks from Louisiana that had a problem with Bush during Katrina were the Democrats being supported by entitlements.

We all know it was Gov Blanco and Mayor Nagin that dropped the ball.

dnf777
06-15-2010, 09:52 PM
The only thing spinning is my head, after reading the idiocy of even comparing a natural disaster to a private industry malfeasance and criminal negligence! Even Joe Scarborough said it was idiotic.

I have to hand it to you though....turning a criminal act by the oil industry into a political punch against a sitting President. Brilliant maneuvering, I admit.

precisionlabradors
06-15-2010, 09:56 PM
The only thing spinning is my head, after reading the idiocy of even comparing a natural disaster to a private industry malfeasance and criminal negligence! Even Joe Scarborough said it was idiotic.

I have to hand it to you though....turning a criminal act by the oil industry into a political punch against a sitting President. Brilliant maneuvering, I admit.

doesn't seem that brilliant to me. more like grasping at straws. when dg wants to make a comparison to his messiah Bush it's cool. When dnf does it, omg, get out the effing napalm. ****can't wait for dg to get butthurt about me calling bush his messiah***
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david gibson
06-15-2010, 09:59 PM
The only thing spinning is my head, after reading the idiocy of even comparing a natural disaster to a private industry malfeasance and criminal negligence! Even Joe Scarborough said it was idiotic.

I have to hand it to you though....turning a criminal act by the oil industry into a political punch against a sitting President. Brilliant maneuvering, I admit.

good job! i knew you could do it!

no one is comparing the actual spill to the storm! to expect obama to have prevented the blow out and spill would require expecting Bush to have stood like Moses and deterred Katrina from ever forming. therefore your "turning a criminal act by the oil industry into a political punch against a sitting President." is way off on a tangent, not relevant at all.

the part you missed is that its not the actual spill he is held to task for, its the leadership in the clean up effort. but i expected that to be skipped, thats the way you spin and you did another fine job! you always find a way to compare an apple to a imaginary grapefruit!

Goose
06-15-2010, 10:09 PM
Did Barack play golf today?

dnf777
06-15-2010, 10:35 PM
The fact is Dave, Bush's delay in ordering potable water drops, depmeds, and other humanitarian aid directly resulted in hundreds of people dying. In that amount of time, BP hadn't even acknowledged there was a spill! As Obama pointed out tonite, as soon as the news was made available, courtesy BP, he assembled a team of experts to begin working on a solution. This, despite BP's written assurances that this could not happen, and that the walruses and penguins would be safe!

As far as it being "Obama's Katrina", that is so far in outer space I won't even comment! Perhaps he didn't wear the correct cheerleader outfit and pom-poms, or didn't take the proper podium-pounding photo ops you would have preferred, but I believe it was you guys who excused Bush by claiming the states and localities are better suited and should be in charge of the local efforts?? (remember--Nagin and Blanco screwed up?)

Just some comments on the poll. I accept the results for what they are. A poll taken in the deep south, traditionally strong republican, oil-friendly territory. When the oil hits southern florida, ask the same questions and see what results you get? I would accept those results for what they would be as well. Probably more favorable of Obama, but equally worthless. Also, they do not mention if the poll was taken of random Louisianans, or selected from a specific group. They do mention "weighting" bias. Anyone care to explain what exactly was being weighted?

Again, I accept the results for what they are. A poll conducted in a heavily oil-friendly, republican, anti-Obama region, with unknown inclusion criteria and unknown yet vaguely acknowledged "weighting" bias?? Sorry to review the results with a critical eye. That's why you rarely, if ever, see me citing polls.

david gibson
06-15-2010, 10:44 PM
The fact is Dave, Bush's delay in ordering potable water drops, depmeds, and other humanitarian aid directly resulted in hundreds of people dying. In that amount of time, BP hadn't even acknowledged there was a spill! As Obama pointed out tonite, as soon as the news was made available, courtesy BP, he assembled a team of experts to begin working on a solution. This, despite BP's written assurances that this could not happen, and that the walruses and penguins would be safe!

As far as it being "Obama's Katrina", that is so far in outer space I won't even comment! Perhaps he didn't wear the correct cheerleader outfit and pom-poms, or didn't take the proper podium-pounding photo ops you would have preferred, but I believe it was you guys who excused Bush by claiming the states and localities are better suited and should be in charge of the local efforts??

dude dont blame me, i am just the messenger! i didnt conduct the poll! "Public Policy Polling (PPP) is an American, Democratic Party-affiliated polling firm based in Raleigh, North Carolina". they polled people living in the state that is ground zero for both disasters. so if you have a beef, its with the good ole folks of Louisiana.

i knew this would get you spinning, but take it easy fella, dont boil over... ;-)

dnf777
06-15-2010, 11:00 PM
dude dont blame me, i am just the messenger! i didnt conduct the poll! "Public Policy Polling (PPP) is an American, Democratic Party-affiliated polling firm based in Raleigh, North Carolina". they polled people living in the state that is ground zero for both disasters. so if you have a beef, its with the good ole folks of Louisiana.

i knew this would get you spinning, but take it easy fella, dont boil over... ;-)

Not boiling over at all. Actually found it very insightful, but not of the same issues that you did, probably. ;)

One glaring deficiency of this polls construct, it is biased with regards to the law of recency. You're asking people to compare events that they are currently suffering through, with events of 5 years ago. Go back and look at approval ratings of Mr. Bush from 2005 and see where they stand. Or for a more accurate comparison, seek a poll taken while the event and it's immediate aftermath were still in progress, as this poll was.

Franco
06-15-2010, 11:09 PM
The fact is Dave, Bush's delay in ordering potable water drops, depmeds, and other humanitarian aid directly resulted in hundreds of people dying. In that amount of time, BP hadn't even acknowledged there was a spill! As Obama pointed out tonite, as soon as the news was made available, courtesy BP, he assembled a team of experts to begin working on a solution. This, despite BP's written assurances that this could not happen, and that the walruses and penguins would be safe!

As far as it being "Obama's Katrina", that is so far in outer space I won't even comment! Perhaps he didn't wear the correct cheerleader outfit and pom-poms, or didn't take the proper podium-pounding photo ops you would have preferred, but I believe it was you guys who excused Bush by claiming the states and localities are better suited and should be in charge of the local efforts?? (remember--Nagin and Blanco screwed up?)

Just some comments on the poll. I accept the results for what they are. A poll taken in the deep south, traditionally strong republican, oil-friendly territory. When the oil hits southern florida, ask the same questions and see what results you get? I would accept those results for what they would be as well. Probably more favorable of Obama, but equally worthless. Also, they do not mention if the poll was taken of random Louisianans, or selected from a specific group. They do mention "weighting" bias. Anyone care to explain what exactly was being weighted?

Again, I accept the results for what they are. A poll conducted in a heavily oil-friendly, republican, anti-Obama region, with unknown inclusion criteria and unknown yet vaguely acknowledged "weighting" bias?? Sorry to review the results with a critical eye. That's why you rarely, if ever, see me citing polls.

There is no "should be in charge". Federal mandate, they were in charge.

There was no delay by Bush. FEMA was ready with relief but delayed by Gov Blanco. Coast Guard stepped in from day one with recue.

It was the attack by the Bush hating media that made it look that way to outsiders.

In the response to Hurricane Katrina, federal law specifically provided that the then Democrat Governor of Louisiana and Mayor of New Orleans were in charge. The federal and FEMA role was to "support…state and local assistance efforts" with the necessary, primarily financial resources. Nevertheless, in the days after the hurricane, President Bush's federal government was the only functioning authority, as the Coast Guard rescued 30,000 people off of rooftops. Hundreds of school buses that could have been used to whisk those people out of harm's way were left ruined under water due to Mayor Nagin's inaction in response to federal hurricane warnings. The partisan Governor acted only to deny and delay President Bush's control over the state's national guard for political reasons.

gman0046
06-16-2010, 11:03 AM
Comparing Katrina to the negligence by BP is idiotic. How's this Obongo "change" working for you?

kb27_99
06-16-2010, 11:55 AM
I did actually hear a positive about President Obama today.


He has made Jimmy Carter the 2nd worst Prersident ever!!;-)


rk


At lease Jimmy is a good farmer.
Obama is good at nothing but lying.

kb27_99
06-16-2010, 12:07 PM
Nevertheless, in the days after the hurricane, President Bush's federal government was the only functioning authority, as the Coast Guard rescued 30,000 people off of rooftops. .[/FONT]

Have to correct you there Franco. Volunteers like myself, National Guard, and local/state Law Enforcement pulled most of thoughts people off the roof tops. I have some good pictures and storys to go along with them.


Kevin

Roger Perry
06-16-2010, 12:18 PM
Here ya go ----

Yeah, yeah. I know, old news. I got to thinking though after hearing some of Barack Obama’s initial approval ratings about a cool graphic presentation in the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html) around Inauguration Day. They were charts like the one below for Bush which showed ratings over time overlaid with the big news events of the day as well as one chart with all post WWII presidents together.
http://clipsandcomment.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bush-approval-historic.jpg (http://clipsandcomment.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bush-approval-historic.jpg)

Eric Johnson
06-16-2010, 12:19 PM
It is a well-established dictum in disaster planning and response that the local and then the state agencies must prepare for a 72 hour period in which they must provide the support. After the 72 hours, the FEMA assistance is available.

The Mayor of New Orleans should never have let the folks stay.

The Mayor of New Orleans and then the Governor failed the 72 hour test.

FEMA assistence was available (in varying degrees) before the 72 hours was up and the Coast Guard was available almost immediately.

Katrina was a local foul-up. Even after the 72 hours, much of the national effort had to go to clean-up and correcting issues that should have been solved in the 72 hour window.

Eric

Roger Perry
06-16-2010, 12:45 PM
It is a well-established dictum in disaster planning and response that the local and then the state agencies must prepare for a 72 hour period in which they must provide the support. After the 72 hours, the FEMA assistance is available.

The Mayor of New Orleans should never have let the folks stay.

The Mayor of New Orleans and then the Governor failed the 72 hour test.

FEMA assistence was available (in varying degrees) before the 72 hours was up and the Coast Guard was available almost immediately.

Katrina was a local foul-up. Even after the 72 hours, much of the national effort had to go to clean-up and correcting issues that should have been solved in the 72 hour window.

Eric

If a single moment defined that first week, it came on September 1, as thousands of people found themselves stranded at the convention center without food and water. They had been gathering there for days, and the media had been covering them almost from the beginning; some starving refugees had died right in front of the reporters. And Michael Brown, then-chief of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told CNN's Paula Zahn that "the federal government did not even know about the convention center people until today."

Note that Katrina came ashore on August 29th.

"Way to go Brownie".

david gibson
06-16-2010, 01:06 PM
come on roger, dont hold back your emotions - tell how you really feel... ;-)

now - sept 1 - aug 29 = 3 days x 24 hours = 72 hours. still within the local response window - so shouldnt the local and state authorities been sending supplies there or at least have told the feds sooner? come on now, dont hold nagrin and blanco innocent here. there was plenty of blame to spread their way. most of it actually. they are the ones with local knowledge and were there from day 1, whereas the fed had to mobilize and once there there was no way they could have known everything.

and how about nagrin refusing to use school buses that were available to get people out because he felt they deserved greyhounds. i am sure thats bushes fault too.....:rolleyes:

kb27_99
06-16-2010, 02:23 PM
If a single moment defined that first week, it came on September 1, as thousands of people found themselves stranded at the convention center without food and water. They had been gathering there for days, and the media had been covering them almost from the beginning; some starving refugees had died right in front of the reporters. And Michael Brown, then-chief of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told CNN's Paula Zahn that "the federal government did not even know about the convention center people until today."

Note that Katrina came ashore on August 29th.

"Way to go Brownie".

Do you actually believe that sh**? Come on man you cant be that gullable?

dnf777
06-16-2010, 02:24 PM
Do you actually believe that sh**? Come on man you cant be that gullable?

No.....there really was a hurricane! I saw it!

kb27_99
06-16-2010, 02:27 PM
No.....there really was a hurricane! I saw it!You are correct, i was there Aug. 30. One hell of a mess.

david gibson
06-16-2010, 02:29 PM
kb: some people all the news they wanted to hear from Michael Moore and cnn and msnbc and comedy central will never listen to someone like you who was there.

because you can tell them what happened, the others tell them what they want to hear.

dnf777
06-16-2010, 02:34 PM
kb: some people all the news they wanted to hear from Michael Moore and cnn and msnbc and comedy central will never listen to someone like you who was there.

because you can tell them what happened, the others tell them what they want to hear.

I spent a year in NOLA immediately following Katrina at one of the only functioning hospitals. I went through Hurricane Alicia in '83, and don't care to do it ever again. Oh, I didn't have cable when I was in NOLA, it hadn't been restored to my area yet, so I didn't get my news from your sources. But then again, you weren't referring to me anyway.

kb27_99
06-16-2010, 02:39 PM
I spent a year in NOLA immediately following Katrina at one of the only functioning hospitals. .

Were you one of many that were trapped in NO Charity?

dnf777
06-16-2010, 02:49 PM
Were you one of many that were trapped in NO Charity?

No, I was at Ochsner. Thank goodness. That crazy DA who toughed the storm out in Vegas was trying to convict docs of murder there. I lived in Jefferson Parish near the hospital. Actually that area was relatively unscathed, except for some wind damage. It felt more impact as folks returned, and it was one of the habitable areas, and was instantly overcrowded.