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david gibson
06-21-2010, 05:59 PM
..on deep drilling - defined as over 500 feet, in the gulf with all the issues of people out of work and rigs moving away, when Obama loaned Petrobas and GEORGE SORUS $2BILLION to drill a well 14,000 feet deep?????

with the safety record of BP (tons and tons - they cited all the stats in the congress hearing last week) why not just ban BP from drilling? let the companies with good safety records work - why punish them?

1. Soros, in 2009, invests heavily in Petrobras, the Brazilian State oil company.
2. Soros Organization has something to do with making sure Obama imposes moratorium on oil drilling in Gulf.
3. Deep water oil platforms move to Brazil and produce for Petrobras.
4. Soros makes Billions.
5. We have no deep water drilling, obama wins by pushing his anti-oil agenda


How many coincidences are we expected to accept? there may be questions on whats posted above, but i bet there will be far more questions about what happens from here on out.

huntinman
06-21-2010, 06:04 PM
..on deep drilling - defined as over 500 feet, in the gulf with all the issues of people out of work and rigs moving away, when Obama loaned Petrobas and GEORGE SORUS $2BILLION to drill a well 14,000 feet deep?????

with the safety record of BP (tons and tons - they cited all the stats in the congress hearing last week) why not just ban BP from drilling? let the companies with good safety records work - why punish them?

1. Soros, in 2009, invests heavily in Petrobras, the Brazilian State oil company.
2. Soros Organization has something to do with making sure Obama imposes moratorium on oil drilling in Gulf.
3. Deep water oil platforms move to Brazil and produce for Petrobras.
4. Soros makes Billions.
5. We have no deep water drilling, obama wins by pushing his anti-oil agenda


How many coincidences are we expected to accept? there may be questions on whats posted above, but i bet there will be far more questions about what happens from here on out.

And gas prices in the US go through the roof, which is exactly what Obama wants.

depittydawg
06-21-2010, 06:41 PM
And gas prices in the US go through the roof, which is exactly what Obama wants.

??? Why would Obama want gas prices to rise in the US? In fact, at least in my area, they are down a little. As for the original post by David, it has some merit only If you look at the moratorium as a penalty. I believe the moratorium is a cautionary move to do some legwork and find out what ALL these corporations are doing out there. It makes sense. It's obvious that the government has no clue of what or how this technology works, let alone the risks involved. A 6 month pause seems like a good move at this point. Remember, we still don't know if they can stop this leak at all. Who's to say their relief wells won't work. Then were do we go?

david gibson
06-21-2010, 07:09 PM
??? Why would Obama want gas prices to rise in the US? In fact, at least in my area, they are down a little. As for the original post by David, it has some merit only If you look at the moratorium as a penalty. I believe the moratorium is a cautionary move to do some legwork and find out what ALL these corporations are doing out there. It makes sense. It's obvious that the government has no clue of what or how this technology works, let alone the risks involved. A 6 month pause seems like a good move at this point. Remember, we still don't know if they can stop this leak at all. Who's to say their relief wells won't work. Then were do we go?


you are 100% correct and i agree with you fully, this is exactly what is going on, totally accurate - if you are the type that believes everything this administration (or any, for that matter, but much much more so with this one) is telling you.

fortunately, i am not in that group with you.

road kill
06-21-2010, 07:10 PM
??? Why would Obama want gas prices to rise in the US? In fact, at least in my area, they are down a little. As for the original post by David, it has some merit only If you look at the moratorium as a penalty. I believe the moratorium is a cautionary move to do some legwork and find out what ALL these corporations are doing out there. It makes sense. It's obvious that the government has no clue of what or how this technology works, let alone the risks involved. A 6 month pause seems like a good move at this point. Remember, we still don't know if they can stop this leak at all. Who's to say their relief wells won't work. Then were do we go?

Cap & Trade

(btw--your naivete' is cute!!)




rk

Gerry Clinchy
06-21-2010, 07:11 PM
Some of the stats given on radio today: 33 rigs are now idle which are responsible for 7,000 jobs. Estimate is that each direct job supports 3 more indirect jobs. That means 28,000 jobs lost.

Most recent stimulus-created jobs figure 4,000/mo. So the moratorium has just offset 7 months' of stimulus job creation.

I am unclear on whether the moratorium is limited to deep-water drilling or all off-shore drilling. I could understand the deep-water drilling being put on hold. Obviously, they do not yet have a handle on the technology in case of an emergency.

OTOH, if this disaster could have been averted by following the protocols (and BP cut corners), then perhaps that is the real problem, not following the accepted protocols?

Rumored that Salazar is going to change the name of MMS ... that'll do a lot of good!

david gibson
06-21-2010, 07:15 PM
??? Why would Obama want gas prices to rise in the US? In fact, at least in my area, they are down a little. As for the original post by David, it has some merit only If you look at the moratorium as a penalty. I believe the moratorium is a cautionary move to do some legwork and find out what ALL these corporations are doing out there. It makes sense. It's obvious that the government has no clue of what or how this technology works, let alone the risks involved. A 6 month pause seems like a good move at this point. Remember, we still don't know if they can stop this leak at all. Who's to say their relief wells won't work. Then were do we go?

i just cant let this go. are you serious??? really? he wants the price to rise so he will get more support for his energy policy that he campaigned for last week instead of telling us how he was leading the effort to clean up this GD mess. high oil prices abet his agenda, and if you cant see that you are hopelessly blind to reality.

and do you really think that a drop in the price right now has anything to do with it? aren't you guys the ones that always tell us that a record cold temp has nothing to do with long term global warming? cant have it both ways, but of course, thats how you guys operate.

Franco
06-21-2010, 07:27 PM
??? Why would Obama want gas prices to rise in the US? In fact, at least in my area, they are down a little. As for the original post by David, it has some merit only If you look at the moratorium as a penalty. I believe the moratorium is a cautionary move to do some legwork and find out what ALL these corporations are doing out there. It makes sense. It's obvious that the government has no clue of what or how this technology works, let alone the risks involved. A 6 month pause seems like a good move at this point. Remember, we still don't know if they can stop this leak at all. Who's to say their relief wells won't work. Then were do we go?

First of all, a 6 month halt will be a minimum of 5 years. These rigs are in demand and they will move to other parts of the globe.

The word out of Austin and Baton Rouge is that if we don't get an injuction by Wednesday against the moritorium, that both states will completely shutdown all refineries. Sort of an Oil War with the administration. By the time Obama takes over those refineries via Federal mandate, he will be so done you won't be able to stick a fork in him!

Second, this is a way for them to push thier Cap and Tax program. It is a get very rich quickly scheme that Obama and his cronies will profit from.

Those rigs can be inspected in days. Just remember that Texas, La, Ms, Al all went for the GOP so Obama knows that it doesn't matter how much he harms thier economy, it won't matter at the voting booth. That's because these states will vote GOP in 2010 and 2012.

Get ready for $6. or higher a gallon gasoline at the pump. When domestic production drops, the refineries will drop capacity to stay profitable. And, if the govenors of both states shut them down, gas will be much higher than $6. a gallon.

Doc E
06-21-2010, 09:28 PM
Good idea.
Last week, I heard on radio news that in the last 6 years, the top three "offenders" of off shore drilling regulations....................................... .......
Tied for 2nd & 3rd Place were Sunoco and Conoco------------- They each had 7 violations.
First Place went to BP with 760 ! ! !



.

Franco
06-21-2010, 09:53 PM
Good idea.
Last week, I heard on radio news that in the last 6 years, the top three "offenders" of off shore drilling regulations....................................... .......
Tied for 2nd & 3rd Place were Sunoco and Conoco------------- They each had 7 violations.
First Place went to BP with 760 ! ! !



.

We don't have a choice! Obama is making a crisis bigger by design and putting out backs against the wall. La and Tx have done a great job of avoiding the recession the last two years. By shutting down drilling in waters over 500 feet, he would make us another Michigan.

So, we can let him slowly kill us with the moritorium or we can fight back by shutting all refining down.

We know how our brothers in Arizona feel. And, like them we will fight back!

mjh345
06-21-2010, 10:10 PM
First of all, a 6 month halt will be a minimum of 5 years. These rigs are in demand and they will move to other parts of the globe.

The word out of Austin and Baton Rouge is that if we don't get an injuction by Wednesday against the moritorium, that both states will completely shutdown all refineries. Sort of an Oil War with the administration. By the time Obama takes over those refineries via Federal mandate, he will be so done you won't be able to stick a fork in him!

Second, this is a way for them to push thier Cap and Tax program. It is a get very rich quickly scheme that Obama and his cronies will profit from.

Those rigs can be inspected in days. Just remember that Texas, La, Ms, Al all went for the GOP so Obama knows that it doesn't matter how much he harms thier economy, it won't matter at the voting booth. That's because these states will vote GOP in 2010 and 2012.

Get ready for $6. or higher a gallon gasoline at the pump. When domestic production drops, the refineries will drop capacity to stay profitable. And, if the govenors of both states shut them down, gas will be much higher than $6. a gallon.

Yeah right, lets hear your sources for the "word out of Austin & Baton Rouge" story
Sounds like more "politics of fear" tactics. It is old and becoming less effective. I for one am tired of it

david gibson
06-21-2010, 10:11 PM
First of all, a 6 month halt will be a minimum of 5 years. These rigs are in demand and they will move to other parts of the globe.

The word out of Austin and Baton Rouge is that if we don't get an injuction by Wednesday against the moritorium, that both states will completely shutdown all refineries. Sort of an Oil War with the administration. By the time Obama takes over those refineries via Federal mandate, he will be so done you won't be able to stick a fork in him!

Second, this is a way for them to push thier Cap and Tax program. It is a get very rich quickly scheme that Obama and his cronies will profit from.

Those rigs can be inspected in days. Just remember that Texas, La, Ms, Al all went for the GOP so Obama knows that it doesn't matter how much he harms thier economy, it won't matter at the voting booth. That's because these states will vote GOP in 2010 and 2012.

Get ready for $6. or higher a gallon gasoline at the pump. When domestic production drops, the refineries will drop capacity to stay profitable. And, if the govenors of both states shut them down, gas will be much higher than $6. a gallon.

where did you hear this? this is pretty serious - by Austin and Baton Rouge you are insinuating this is a state govt. decision - but the refineries are owned by oil companies - so how does that work? the states are going to force the refineries to shut down? how can that be legal? and by shutting down the refineries the oil companies are committing suicide. there are flowing pipelines and thousands and thousands of jobs to consider. this act alone will cripple our economy and make villains out of most oil companies.

sorry Franco, this just doesnt pass the smell test with me. please expound some more.....

huntinman
06-21-2010, 10:19 PM
[QUOTE=depittydawg;633151]??? Why would Obama want gas prices to rise in the US? QUOTE]

Well here is how he feels about electric rates, it's no stretch to think that he wants the same for gas prices when he covets Cap & Tax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

huntinman
06-21-2010, 10:23 PM
Good idea.
Last week, I heard on radio news that in the last 6 years, the top three "offenders" of off shore drilling regulations....................................... .......
Tied for 2nd & 3rd Place were Sunoco and Conoco------------- They each had 7 violations.
First Place went to BP with 760 ! ! !



.

What they should do then is put the moratorium on only BP till they get their act together. Why penalize the other companies and their tens of thousands of employees and contractors who have done nothing wrong?

david gibson
06-21-2010, 10:25 PM
where did you hear this? this is pretty serious - by Austin and Baton Rouge you are insinuating this is a state govt. decision - but the refineries are owned by oil companies - so how does that work? the states are going to force the refineries to shut down? how can that be legal? and by shutting down the refineries the oil companies are committing suicide. there are flowing pipelines and thousands and thousands of jobs to consider. this act alone will cripple our economy and make villains out of most oil companies.

sorry Franco, this just doesnt pass the smell test with me. please expound some more.....

just heard it on Greta interviewing Pete Olson, 32 oil companies bringing suit....but no threat of shutting refineries....

david gibson
06-21-2010, 10:29 PM
Good idea.
Last week, I heard on radio news that in the last 6 years, the top three "offenders" of off shore drilling regulations....................................... .......
Tied for 2nd & 3rd Place were Sunoco and Conoco------------- They each had 7 violations.
First Place went to BP with 760 ! ! !



.

this is whats getting to me all along - penalize the guys playing by the rules - makes no sense at all.

depittydawg
06-21-2010, 10:34 PM
i just cant let this go. are you serious??? really? he wants the price to rise so he will get more support for his energy policy that he campaigned for last week instead of telling us how he was leading the effort to clean up this GD mess. high oil prices abet his agenda, and if you cant see that you are hopelessly blind to reality.

and do you really think that a drop in the price right now has anything to do with it? aren't you guys the ones that always tell us that a record cold temp has nothing to do with long term global warming? cant have it both ways, but of course, thats how you guys operate.

You're reading way to much from your tea leaves. It's an election year. The economy is still limping along on a sketchy recovery. The last thing anybody wants is rising energy prices right now. That especially applies to Obama and the Democrats. As the party in power, they get the blame. As for your argument that Obama is a strong supporter of alternative energy, his actions state otherwise. As with every other important problem he has encountered, he pays a little lip service to his base, then turns around and behaves like a Republican. The final health care bill that was passed is almost exactly what Richard Nixon proposed 40 years ago.

huntinman
06-21-2010, 10:43 PM
You're reading way to much from your tea leaves. It's an election year. The economy is still limping along on a sketchy recovery. The last thing anybody wants is rising energy prices right now. That especially applies to Obama and the Democrats. As the party in power, they get the blame. As for your argument that Obama is a strong supporter of alternative energy, his actions state otherwise. As with every other important problem he has encountered, he pays a little lip service to his base, then turns around and behaves like a Republican. The final health care bill that was passed is almost exactly what Richard Nixon proposed 40 years ago.

dawg, formerly known as deppity...that is the biggest pile of crap you have ever put on here. Obama does not give a damn what the public thinks. he proved that with obamacare. If you think Obama gives a rip about the economy, that is another joke. if he did he would not screw it up by pouring billions into all these questionable (at best) programs. I don't even drink, but I think I'll go pour a strong one after that.

Franco
06-21-2010, 10:44 PM
where did you hear this? this is pretty serious - by Austin and Baton Rouge you are insinuating this is a state govt. decision - but the refineries are owned by oil companies - so how does that work? the states are going to force the refineries to shut down? how can that be legal? and by shutting down the refineries the oil companies are committing suicide. there are flowing pipelines and thousands and thousands of jobs to consider. this act alone will cripple our economy and make villains out of most oil companies.

sorry Franco, this just doesnt pass the smell test with me. please expound some more.....

If we don't get the injunction by Wednesday look for the states to perform saftey checks on refineries. They'll go through them methodically searching for any violation.

Just watch and see what happens.

charly_t
06-22-2010, 12:05 AM
What they should do then is put the moratorium on only BP till they get their act together. Why penalize the other companies and their tens of thousands of employees and contractors who have done nothing wrong?

:-) I hate to tell you this but this is what school teachers have been doing for years to students unlucky enough to be in a class with some clown(s). And I agree with you 100%. :-)

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 12:23 AM
[QUOTE=depittydawg;633151]??? Why would Obama want gas prices to rise in the US? QUOTE]

Well here is how he feels about electric rates, it's no stretch to think that he wants the same for gas prices when he covets Cap & Tax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4
Sounds fine to me. How much money is it worth to you in today's dollars, to maintain a healthy planet for the future? Have you ever considered that the 99% of scientists who fall on the side of supporting climate change theory just might be correct?

M&K's Retrievers
06-22-2010, 12:43 AM
[QUOTE=huntinman;633276]
Have you ever considered that the 99% of scientists who fall on the side of supporting climate change theory just might be correct?

And they might be wrong.

Chicken Little regards

huntinman
06-22-2010, 08:41 AM
[QUOTE=huntinman;633276]
Sounds fine to me. How much money is it worth to you in today's dollars, to maintain a healthy planet for the future? Have you ever considered that the 99% of scientists who fall on the side of supporting climate change theory just might be correct?

Your 99% number is equivalent to Obama's 95% of all Americans will get a tax break. Say it enough times and you believe it. Still BS

david gibson
06-22-2010, 09:12 AM
[QUOTE=huntinman;633276]
Sounds fine to me. How much money is it worth to you in today's dollars, to maintain a healthy planet for the future? Have you ever considered that the 99% of scientists who fall on the side of supporting climate change theory just might be correct?

that would be 99% of liberal academic scientists whose livelihoods depend on grants and research so therefore they need a crisis to hitch their wagon to. we all saw what happened over in england, i certainly dont thaink that was an isolated incident.

99% (just pulled out of the air like your stat) of practicing scientists are skeptical

Gerry Clinchy
06-22-2010, 09:35 AM
NYTimes/CBS Poll
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/us/22poll.html?th&emc=th

Poll Finds Deep Concern About Energy and Economy

Buzz
06-22-2010, 10:03 AM
NYTimes/CBS Poll
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/us/22poll.html?th&emc=th

Poll Finds Deep Concern About Energy and Economy

No one does it better than Jon Stewart.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future

david gibson
06-22-2010, 10:24 AM
No one does it better than Jon Stewart.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future

definitely funny, but definitely slanted. at least he treated the presidents equally, but he failed to admit that many of their policies he lampooned actually worked - nuclear plants, clean coal, etc - its just that our demand for oil increased far faster than our ability to offset it. i'd like to see what you get if you took the amount of "clean"(er) energy we produce today and applied it to 1980 consumption.

and nixon?? puhleeese. just because he advocated national health care does not mean he was pushing the same bill of goods obama just crammed down our throats. republicans today support health care reform, just not the ridiculous system obamacare is.

its sad some people watch this guy and believe him.

huntinman
06-22-2010, 10:27 AM
definitely funny, but definitely slanted. at least he treated the presidents equally, but he failed to admit that many of their policies he lampooned actually worked - nuclear plants, clean coal, etc - its just that our demand for oil increased far faster than our ability to offset it. i'd like to see what you get if you took the amount of "clean"(er) energy we produce today and applied it to 1980 consumption.

and nixon?? puhleeese. just because he advocated national health care does not mean he was pushing the same bill of goods obama just crammed down our throats. republicans today support health care reform, just not the ridiculous system obamacare is.

its sad some people watch this guy and believe him.

Same ones that believe Obama and his tripe.

JDogger
06-22-2010, 10:42 AM
definitely funny, but definitely slanted. at least he treated the presidents equally, but he failed to admit that many of their policies he lampooned actually worked - nuclear plants, clean coal, etc - its just that our demand for oil increased far faster than our ability to offset it. i'd like to see what you get if you took the amount of "clean"(er) energy we produce today and applied it to 1980 consumption.

and nixon?? puhleeese. just because he advocated national health care does not mean he was pushing the same bill of goods obama just crammed down our throats. republicans today support health care reform, just not the ridiculous system obamacare is.

its sad some people watch this guy and believe him.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll176/JDoggger/rofl1.gif

I would have replied sooner, but I had to wipe the coffee off of my screen.;-)

JD

Buzz
06-22-2010, 10:45 AM
and nixon?? puhleeese. just because he advocated national health care does not mean he was pushing the same bill of goods obama just crammed down our throats. republicans today support health care reform, just not the ridiculous system obamacare is.

its sad some people watch this guy and believe him.

Nixon in his own words on healthcare reform:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx


http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Checking-In-With/stuart-altman.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGKkPEvD2OM&feature=player_embedded#!





You had four or five different options. You had the far left, which was the original Kennedy bill [which was backed by the unions]. But then Kennedy himself became much more of a centrist. Then you had the administration bill. It was, in some respects, quite similar to where the Obama administration started out. It had an employer mandate. It had big subsidies for poor people to buy private insurance. It had an extension of Medicaid. And you had a strong push, surprisingly from a Republican administration.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 11:30 AM
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll176/JDoggger/rofl1.gif

I would have replied sooner, but I had to wipe the coffee off of my screen.;-)

JD

you obviously are clueless. you may want to do a little bi-partisan research before you spit your coffee out next time. its clear you have only listened to the MSM and CNN types who dont tell everything. here is a start:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(CNSNews.com) – President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress -- while pushing their own health care overhauls -- have criticized Republicans as offering only opposition and no ideas for reform, but the GOP, despite the lack of media attention, has introduced three health care bills.

The three Republican bills total almost 400 pages and have been on the table since May and June.

In May, Republicans in the House and the Senate formed a bicameral coalition to produce the130-page “Patients Choice Act of 2009.”

In June, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) introduced the “Health Care Freedom Plan,” a 41-page proposal.

And in July, the Republican Study Committee, under the leadership of Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), unveiled the “Empowering Patients First Act,” a 130-page plan.

Some of the provisions included in one or more of the bills include: investing in preventive medicine, an overhaul of Medicaid, reduction of abuse and fraud in the Medicare program, supplemental health insurance for low-income families, tax credits for health insurance, and a ban on federal funds being used for abortions.


Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.)
However, supporters of the Democratic plans have accused Republicans of trying to derail attempts at reforming health care without having a plan of their own.

“There is no Republican health care plan out there,” Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) told Talk Radio News Service on July 31 about what he called the Republican-backed “misinformation campaign” that is slowing health care reform.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

pretty clear you only heard what you wanted to hear as in the last paragraph. you did a great job showing your ignorance!

Buzz
06-22-2010, 11:34 AM
Same ones that believe Obama and his tripe.

Americans generally seem to believe that there is such a thing as a free lunch.

menmon
06-22-2010, 11:40 AM
The moratorium clearly is impacting many companies, many of which I bank. Having said that, until they cap the well they are not going to lift it.

Is it bad for industry and jobs in the gulf region, absolutely. However, it is an understandable response to this disaster. It does not provide much comfort when the CEO of the largest US oil company tells you that he does not have the means to deal with this type of disaster either.

As for these rigs leaving the region and drilling somewhere else, it will have little or no impact on the price of gasoline. Oil is a world commodity and price is determined by supply, no matter where it comes from.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 11:46 AM
Americans generally seem to believe that there is such a thing as a free lunch.

then that explains why you and the "useful idiots" elected obama

Buzz
06-22-2010, 11:52 AM
then how do you explain obama being elected???

"i wont have to worry about paying my mortgage, my car note..." LOL!

carefully re-read what I said...;-)

david gibson
06-22-2010, 12:18 PM
carefully re-read what I said...;-)

i stand corrected - and fixed it... ;-)

JDogger
06-22-2010, 12:31 PM
you obviously are clueless. you may want to do a little bi-partisan research before you spit your coffee out next time. its clear you have only listened to the MSM and CNN types who dont tell everything. here is a start:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(CNSNews.com) – President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress -- while pushing their own health care overhauls -- have criticized Republicans as offering only opposition and no ideas for reform, but the GOP, despite the lack of media attention, has introduced three health care bills.

The three Republican bills total almost 400 pages and have been on the table since May and June.

In May, Republicans in the House and the Senate formed a bicameral coalition to produce the130-page “Patients Choice Act of 2009.”

In June, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) introduced the “Health Care Freedom Plan,” a 41-page proposal.

And in July, the Republican Study Committee, under the leadership of Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.), unveiled the “Empowering Patients First Act,” a 130-page plan.

Some of the provisions included in one or more of the bills include: investing in preventive medicine, an overhaul of Medicaid, reduction of abuse and fraud in the Medicare program, supplemental health insurance for low-income families, tax credits for health insurance, and a ban on federal funds being used for abortions.


Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.)
However, supporters of the Democratic plans have accused Republicans of trying to derail attempts at reforming health care without having a plan of their own.

“There is no Republican health care plan out there,” Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) told Talk Radio News Service on July 31 about what he called the Republican-backed “misinformation campaign” that is slowing health care reform.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

pretty clear you only heard what you wanted to hear as in the last paragraph. you did a great job showing your ignorance!

Funny...you calling someone else myopic.

The question begs. If the republicans could come up with three plans so quickly, why couldn't they do it, and pass something in 2004 or 2005 or 2006, while they held the majority?

Having a health care plan written by the insurance industry is simply maintaining the status quo.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/congressional_budget_office_th.html

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/republican-health-insurance-reform-bill-insures-almost-nobody.php

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-comparison.aspx

Bad plan = no plan.

JD

PS Try to resist getting personal, it reflects poorly

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 12:43 PM
As for these rigs leaving the region and drilling somewhere else, it will have little or no impact on the price of gasoline. Oil is a world commodity and price is determined by supply, no matter where it comes from.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that these deep water drilling rigs are a pretty sizable investment for the corporations who own them. To suggest they are going to "leave" them and go elsewhere is pretty farcical. Now if someone where to suggest that they will have to go elsewhere because the BP leak drained all the oil out of the Gulf, that might merit some thought.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 12:53 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that these deep water drilling rigs are a pretty sizable investment for the corporations who own them. To suggest they are going to "leave" them and go elsewhere is pretty farcical. Now if someone where to suggest that they will have to go elsewhere because the BP leak drained all the oil out of the Gulf, that might merit some thought.

they will go where the work is - Brazil and your pal George Soros have a sizeable investment in deep water tracts down there, and they need rigs to drill them. coincidence????

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 01:00 PM
they will go where the work is - Brazil and your pal George Soros have a sizeable investment in deep water tracts down there, and they need rigs to drill them. coincidence????

Yes it is a coincidence. Are you suggesting a conspiracy?

david gibson
06-22-2010, 01:01 PM
Funny...you calling someone else myopic.

The question begs. If the republicans could come up with three plans so quickly, why couldn't they do it, and pass something in 2004 or 2005 or 2006, while they held the majority?

Having a health care plan written by the insurance industry is simply maintaining the status quo.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/congressional_budget_office_th.html

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/republican-health-insurance-reform-bill-insures-almost-nobody.php

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-comparison.aspx

Bad plan = no plan.

JD

PS Try to resist getting personal, it reflects poorly

you can beg all the questions you like, the fact is you laughed when i said republicans today support health care reform, just not the obamacare specifically. i showed you differently and you dont accept that. you can question and debate the merits of their plans to your bleeding liberal heart's desire, the fact is my statement was correct.

obamacare = Bad plan = no plan. are you forgetting the majority of americans dont like it either? and thats even counting all the useful idiots that blindly follow obama.....

a typical poll this past spring:

>>>>>>>>>>>
"shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months.

Another finding that has remained constant is that the intensity is stronger among those who oppose the plan. The latest findings include 26% who Strongly Favor the plan and 45% who Strongly Oppose it.

The partisan divide remains constant as well. Seventy-four percent (74%) of Democrats favor the plan, while 87% of Republicans are opposed. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 34% are in favor, and 59% are opposed.

Still, 50% of all voters say they’re less likely to vote this November to reelect a member of Congress who votes for the health care plan.

Fifty-seven percent (57%) believe that if the plan passes, the cost of health care will go up. Only 17% believe the plan will achieve the stated goal of reducing the cost of care.

At the same time, most voters (54%) believe that passage of the plan will hurt the quality of care. "

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

facts are facts.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 01:03 PM
Funny...you calling someone else myopic.

The question begs. If the republicans could come up with three plans so quickly, why couldn't they do it, and pass something in 2004 or 2005 or 2006, while they held the majority?

Having a health care plan written by the insurance industry is simply maintaining the status quo.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/congressional_budget_office_th.html

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/republican-health-insurance-reform-bill-insures-almost-nobody.php

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-comparison.aspx

Bad plan = no plan.

JD

PS Try to resist getting personal, it reflects poorly

you can beg all the questions you like, the fact is you laughed when i said republicans today support health care reform, just not the obamacare specifically. i showed you differently and you dont accept that. you can question and debate the merits of their plans to your bleeding liberal heart's desire, the fact is my statement was correct.

obamacare = Bad plan = no plan. are you forgetting the majority of americans dont like it either? and thats even counting all the useful idiots that blindly follow obama.....

a typical poll this past spring:

>>>>>>>>>>>
"shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months.

Another finding that has remained constant is that the intensity is stronger among those who oppose the plan. The latest findings include 26% who Strongly Favor the plan and 45% who Strongly Oppose it.

The partisan divide remains constant as well. Seventy-four percent (74%) of Democrats favor the plan, while 87% of Republicans are opposed. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 34% are in favor, and 59% are opposed.

Still, 50% of all voters say they’re less likely to vote this November to reelect a member of Congress who votes for the health care plan.

Fifty-seven percent (57%) believe that if the plan passes, the cost of health care will go up. Only 17% believe the plan will achieve the stated goal of reducing the cost of care.

At the same time, most voters (54%) believe that passage of the plan will hurt the quality of care. "

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

facts are facts. now, back to this brilliant idea of a moratorium that will deal a severe blow to the gulf region - La. and Tex especially.....

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 01:27 PM
[QUOTE=david gibson;

facts are facts. now, back to this brilliant idea of a moratorium that will deal a severe blow to the gulf region - La. and Tex especially.....[/QUOTE]

Wrong again David. The BP disaster has dealt the blow. Not the response.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 01:37 PM
Yes it is a coincidence. Are you suggesting a conspiracy?

and how do you know its a coincidence?

david gibson
06-22-2010, 01:43 PM
Wrong again David. The BP disaster has dealt the blow. Not the response.

the moratorium will deal an extra severe blow to this region. the disaster has only dealt a blow to the fishing/tourism and related industries so far, the moratorium will cripple the oil and drilling business. double whammy.

but none of the gulf states voted for Him any way so why should he care?

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 01:51 PM
and how do you know its a coincidence?

Because I see no evidence of a conspiracy.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 01:56 PM
Because I see no evidence of a conspiracy.

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

and who cares anyway now - obama just lost his moratorium........ ;-) !!!

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 01:57 PM
the moratorium will deal an extra severe blow to this region. the disaster has only dealt a blow to the fishing/tourism and related industries so far, the moratorium will cripple the oil and drilling business. double whammy.

but none of the gulf states voted for Him any way so why should he care?

If you seriously believe the President of the United States is responsible for the Gulf Coast disaster, and its fallout, then I'm afraid your hatred of the President has clouded your vision David. The President, whether you voted for him or not, is THE PRESIDENT for the next 3 years or more. And by any measurement you choose to use, he's already outperformed his predecessor.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 02:02 PM
If you seriously believe the President of the United States is responsible for the Gulf Coast disaster, and its fallout, then I'm afraid your hatred of the President has clouded your vision David. The President, whether you voted for him or not, is THE PRESIDENT for the next 3 years or more. And by any measurement you choose to use, he's already outperformed his predecessor.

dont put words in my mouth. i have never said that.

he IS responsible for the moratorium and any results of that. and HE admitted he is responsible for the clean up.

all i asked is if it was a coincidence? the fact that Soros stands to make billions off of a moratorium ordered by obama at least raises an eyebrow.

Buzz
06-22-2010, 02:07 PM
that blindly follow obama.....

a typical poll this past spring:

>>>>>>>>>>>
"shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months.



You guys always quote those polls in an attempt to have us believe that 54% were against it because the plan went too far, conveniently forgetting that a significant percentage of those against take that position because they feel it does not go far enough.

Buzz
06-22-2010, 02:08 PM
The moratorium was lifted by a LA federal judge.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 02:13 PM
You guys always quote those polls in an attempt to have us believe that 54% were against it because the plan went too far, conveniently forgetting that a significant percentage of those against take that position because they feel it does not go far enough.

ohhhh, i see, so polls that favor our position actually are proof against our position? is that how it works? so then polls that are against out position are
what?

the point you conveniently leave out is that if the plan went as far as these "false antis" want there would be just as many if not more that would then abandon the pro side because it then went too far. washout.

sorry. you lose.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 02:15 PM
dont put words in my mouth. i have never said that.

he IS responsible for the moratorium and any results of that. and HE admitted he is responsible for the clean up.

all i asked is if it was a coincidence? the fact that Soros stands to make billions off of a moratorium ordered by obama at least raises an eyebrow.

Any action taken at that level creates winners and loses. In this case, Soros might be a winner. I'd call that good judgement on his part from whenever he made the decision. Do I think it's a conspiracy? No. Warren Buffet makes a lot of money because he makes good decisions too.
As far as putting words in your mouth, I'm only stating the obvious. Go read your posts. You, and many others are so intent on discrediting this President it filters everything you read and write. That's not a criticism, it's an observation. I wasn't around this forum during the Bush Regime. But I can tell you I suffered from the same malady back then.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 02:18 PM
Any action taken at that level creates winners and loses. In this case, Soros might be a winner. I'd call that good judgement on his part from whenever he made the decision. Do I think it's a conspiracy? No. Warren Buffet makes a lot of money because he makes good decisions too.
As far as putting words in your mouth, I'm only stating the obvious. Go read your posts. You, and many others are so intent on discrediting this President it filters everything you read and write. That's not a criticism, it's an observation. I wasn't around this forum during the Bush Regime. But I can tell you I suffered from the same malady back then.

so in other words, you got nothin.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 02:25 PM
so in other words, you got nothin.

???? Your the one who has suggested conspiracy. You need to prove it. Not me.

gman0046
06-22-2010, 02:32 PM
Dippity, you must be the only American satisfied with Obongo's response to the spill. Even the ultra liberal NY Times have called the clean up effort a fiasco.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 02:33 PM
???? Your the one who has suggested conspiracy. You need to prove it. Not me.

nope. all i asked was "coincidence?" no assertion. you stated as fact that it was, but cant prove it. so, on that i'll let you go, thanks for proving once again how hollow your liberal ideas are.

Buzz
06-22-2010, 02:57 PM
ohhhh, i see, so polls that favor our position actually are proof against our position? is that how it works? so then polls that are against out position are
what?

the point you conveniently leave out is that if the plan went as far as these "false antis" want there would be just as many if not more that would then abandon the pro side because it then went too far. washout.

sorry. you lose.


You state your opinion as if it were fact. If what you're saying is true, then it's probably not possible to come up with any plan that will garner a majority.

Cody Covey
06-22-2010, 03:18 PM
in spending i suppose you are correct there Deppity.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 03:36 PM
You state your opinion as if it were fact. If what you're saying is true, then it's probably not possible to come up with any plan that will garner a majority.


You stated your opinion as if it were fact. If what you're saying is true, then any poll that favors the side opposite you is actually in your favor.

you liberals sure know your pretzel logic.

case in point: many (A) were opposed to the bill because it did not have federally sponsored abortion. many (B) were for it only if it kept federally sponsored abortion out. so, try real real hard here buzz, i know you can do it - if they add federally sponsored abortion - guess what - their votes switch! amazing!!!!!

with that i will let you have the last word. you have shown again how blind and warped your thinking is.....

Buzz
06-22-2010, 03:46 PM
You stated your opinion as if it were fact. If what you're saying is true, then any poll that favors the side opposite you is actually in your favor.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/in-polls-much-opposition-to-health-care.html

you liberals sure know your pretzel logic.


I'm not pulling this out of my arse. I saw a few polls that looked at this, but very few for some reason. Here is one that I was able to find quickly.


on't know why I didn't catch this earlier, but it strikes me as fairly important.

Ipsos/McClatchy put out a health care poll two weeks ago. The topline results were nothing special: 34 percent favored "the health care reform proposals presently being discussed", versus 46 percent opposed, and 20 percent undecided. The negative-12 net score is roughly in line with the average of other polls, although the Ipsos poll shows a higher number of undecideds than most others.

Ipsos, however, did something that no other pollster has done. They asked the people who opposed the bill why they opposed it: because they are opposed to health care reform and thought the bill went too far? Or because they support health care reform but thought the bill didn't go far enough?

It turns out that a significant minority of about 25 percent of the people who opposed the plan -- or about 12 of the overall sample -- did so from the left; they thought the plan didn't go far enough.

Ipsos also asked a parallel question of people who supported the plan: did any of them support the plan because they oppose health care reform and thought that the plan was sufficiently watered-down so as to "keep health care reform from happening"? A small number of people picked this response: about 10 percent of those in favor of the plan, or 3 percent of the entire sample.

Combining these numbers together, we get the following:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/davebezesky/hc.png

david gibson
06-22-2010, 05:10 PM
I'm not pulling this out of my arse.

i am not doubting that it is a valid point, i am just saying it also swings the other direction as i posted above, which you refuse to consider.

huntinman
06-22-2010, 05:28 PM
The President, whether you voted for him or not, is THE PRESIDENT for the next 3 years or more.

True, if he doesn't get run out of town prior to that. He is burning enough bridges that impeachment may not be out of the question.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 05:31 PM
True, if he doesn't get run out of town prior to that. He is burning enough bridges that impeachment may not be out of the question.

He has to do something impeachable first. Being bad at the job doesn't warrant it. We've learned that a few times in our history.

huntinman
06-22-2010, 05:34 PM
[QUOTE=depittydawg;633767]He has to do something impeachable first. QUOTE]

He may have, we just need a young reporter who wants to make a name for himself to figure out what it is. He does not have much regard for the constitution or the law, so he will step in it eventually.

david gibson
06-22-2010, 05:41 PM
He has to do something impeachable first. Being bad at the job doesn't warrant it. We've learned that a few times in our history.

if disrespecting the office of the presidency as well as the actual oval office by getting oral sex from a near-teenager then lying about it doesnt get a president impeached then Obama is safe.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 06:01 PM
if disrespecting the office of the presidency as well as the actual oval office by getting oral sex from a near-teenager then lying about it doesnt get a president impeached then Obama is safe.

And if using lying and falsifying documents to start multiple wars around the globe, performing illegal espionage on American citizens, and committing the treason by outing working CIA operatives for political purpose doesn't get you impeached, then I'm guessing Obama is pretty safe too.

road kill
06-22-2010, 06:05 PM
And if using lying and falsifying documents to start multiple wars around the globe, performing illegal espionage on American citizens, and committing the treason by outing working CIA operatives for political purpose doesn't get you impeached, then I'm guessing Obama is pretty safe too.


You have one shred of proof of these accusations??

Or is it just what you FEEL????


Pathetic post Dan Rather.

stan b

badbullgator
06-22-2010, 06:10 PM
And if using lying and falsifying documents to start multiple wars around the globe, performing illegal espionage on American citizens, and committing the treason by outing working CIA operatives for political purpose doesn't get you impeached, then I'm guessing Obama is pretty safe too.



depitty ROGER????????????

Chris check this guys IP roger has signed up under another name.....

gman0046
06-22-2010, 06:14 PM
Hey guy's Obongo has Impeachment Insurance. Thats why Biden is VP.

Franco
06-22-2010, 07:10 PM
Everything Obomo has touched is in chaos.

Health Care
Illegals crossing freely across our unsecured boarders
Afganistan
Guantanamo Bay
Foreign Policy

I know I'm missing some.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 07:44 PM
Everything Obomo has touched is in chaos.

Health Care
Illegals crossing freely across our unsecured boarders
Afganistan
Guantanamo Bay
Foreign Policy

I know I'm missing some.

Hmmm - Healthcare reform is done. And I am certainly none the worse for it. I suspect that's true with most everyone.

Illegals - nothing has changed. And Obama has done anything about it yet.

Afganistan - I'll give you that one. I thought he was feak'n nuts when he escalated that War.

Gitmo - again, nothing has changed.

Foreign Policy - Not much changed here either. Although I'd would argue that Hillary is a much more effective Sec of State than Condie.

gman0046
06-22-2010, 07:48 PM
HEY, dippity don't you know Obongo's Health Care hasn't taken effect yet. Obviously not! How can somebody be posting all this Obongo stuff and not be aware the Health Plan hasn't taken effect yet? You dippity are beyond belief.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 07:55 PM
HEY, dippity don't you know Obongo's Health Care hasn't taken effect yet. Obviously not! Whats the use? He doesn't get it.

You're right GString. I don't get it and never will understand how rational adults can continue to spew such nonsense and hatred concerning subjects they have little to no knowledge of. I suppose my error is in assuming there is anything rational about you. Besides hating the President of the United States, just what exactly do you stand for?

gman0046
06-22-2010, 07:57 PM
I stand for America. You my friend need serious help. How's Obongo's Health Care Plan working for you. Maybe you can let us know when it goes into effect. You don't even know anything about what your posting. Thats amazing.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 08:09 PM
[QUOTE=gman0046;633866]I stand for America. You my friend need serious help. How's Obongo's Health Care Plan working for you. Maybe you can let us know when it goes into effect. You don't even know anything about what your posting. Thats amazing.[/QUOTE

Sorry bud. Those are very hollow words. You're posts say otherwise. You seem to have very little respect for American values. Don't try to hide behind the flag. Another typical response from an ideologue who gets his marching orders off someone else's brain.

gman0046
06-22-2010, 08:22 PM
dippity, you live 3,000 miles away from the oil spill. I'm living it up close and personal. I live in a Coastal Wetland community. We have oil on our beaches. I can't swim in the Gulf. I can't fish in the Gulf. I can't recreation boat in the Gulf. My dogs can no longer swim in the Gulf when they used to swim in it almost every day. My property values have plummeted. The Obongo Administration did not respond to this disaster in a timely manner. The clean up a fiasco. You'd think differently if it effected you like it does me.

JDogger
06-22-2010, 08:27 PM
HEY, dippity don't you know Obongo's Health Care hasn't taken effect yet. Obviously not! How can somebody be posting all this Obongo stuff and not be aware the Health Plan hasn't taken effect yet? You dippity are beyond belief.

So, gman, in November the republican tide will roll, you'll take back congress, the republicans will then be free to pass their highly touted healthcare reform initiative, and all will be good again.

So why are you still sounding so panicked?

Oh, yeah. Obama, the Kenyan, who rides in the night, will veto it, and there might not be enough votes to override it. Well, there is still 2012, but that's a long way off.
In the meantime, don't let your Obama apoplexy overwhelm you. We're in for a long haul here, and your posts are way to entertaining for you to just come, and then go.

Sometime, tell us about your dogs, and post a link here on POTUS.
Don't let hew rankle you, I don't always agree with the other left-wing, aged, hippies here either.

JD

zeus3925
06-22-2010, 09:57 PM
I suppose you all are still buying BP gas. They're such a great company to deal with.

huntinman
06-22-2010, 10:04 PM
I buy gas at a bp station twice a week. It is not BP I would hurt if I didn't. The station is owned by a local small businessman. I will support him indefinetly.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 10:12 PM
dippity, you live 3,000 miles away from the oil spill. I'm living it up close and personal. I live in a Coastal Wetland community. We have oil on our beaches. I can't swim in the Gulf. I can't fish in the Gulf. I can't recreation boat in the Gulf. My dogs can no longer swim in the Gulf when they used to swim in it almost every day. My property values have plummeted. The Obongo Administration did not respond to this disaster in a timely manner. The clean up a fiasco. You'd think differently if it effected you like it does me.

No doubt. However, I would be focusing my anger in a different direction than you have. BTW, for what its worth; that's the most meaningful thing you've said concerning this subject.

Franco
06-22-2010, 10:15 PM
All the BP gas stations in the USA are independently owned. Granted some may be owned by Muslims. The buy thier gas from whomever they can get the best price from. BP is the franchisor and get less than 1% of gas sales in exchange for the stations using the BP name.

depittydawg
06-22-2010, 10:21 PM
All the BP gas stations in the USA are independently owned. Granted some may be owned by Muslims. The buy thier gas from whomever they can get the best price from. BP is the franchisor and get less than 1% of gas sales in exchange for the stations using the BP name.

On the West Coast Arco (formerly Atlantic Richfield) stations peddle BP gas. Many people swear it is low quality but I've used it for years with no problems. It is usually 10 15 cents cheaper than anywhere else. I haven't stopped buying my gas there and I don't plan on it. And they have the best coffee around :)

caryalsobrook
06-22-2010, 10:48 PM
Hmmm - Healthcare reform is done. And I am certainly none the worse for it. I suspect that's true with most everyone.

Illegals - nothing has changed. And Obama has done anything about it yet.

Afganistan - I'll give you that one. I thought he was feak'n nuts when he escalated that War.

Gitmo - again, nothing has changed.

Foreign Policy - Not much changed here either. Although I'd would argue that Hillary is a much more effective Sec of State than Condie.

When will people wake up to the impact of health care reform(socialized medicine). People flock across the border from Canada to get healthcare and they PAY THE TOTAL COST OF TREATMENT FOR IT!! Don't you know that if they could pay for it in Canada the would?? They can't!! No doctor(dentist,optometrist, ect can't accept any payment except from the government. That is the facts. Don't you realize that if you can only work for the government and no one else that the government can tell you where you will have to live, who you can treat and the level of treatment that you can give a patient? I see you are in manufacturing in Oregon. How would you like to have to work for the government and that you could only make 1/2 what you make in Oregon but could make what you make in Missippii?? Name me any other profession in this country that has to live by such government mandate. If you don't respect mm individual freedom why should I respect yours? You think you will be better off? Wait until you are told you can't get treatment and see that the doctor's family will get treatment. I promise you if I treat physicians, then they will treat me. I assure you they will take priority over everyone else. I assure you I will get treatment and my family will get treatment. You well you will be on your own. As I said, you don't respect and protect my freedoms, why do you expect me to defend and protect your individual freedoms.

A further thought- You should understand that healthcare professionals will no longer do work for charitable reasons. You see- If the government says you don't deserve it and they won't let you pay for it then YOU WON't get it.

All you have to do is look at the countries that have socialized medicine and you should be able to see it.

I wish you knew the doctors that no longer accept new patients on medicare to see where the system is going. You may think doctors are overpaid and lazy but I am here to tell you you have no idea. How long a list of doctors do you want that no longer accepting new patients on medicare in the Nashville, Tn. area? I am not a patient of a single one that does. You think I have trouble getting treatment? You are wrong and I will continue getting the standard of care I desire. You you shold not count on it.

This is not written to disparage you. This is to give you the facts as well as all who read this. I don't hate BO. I certainly don't like his nor the congress' policy and will do all I can to change it not only for me but for all who are patinets and are willing to work to aquire the standard of care they desire

depittydawg
06-23-2010, 12:40 AM
When will people wake up to the impact of health care reform(socialized medicine).

All you have to do is look at the countries that have socialized medicine and you should be able to see it.


This is not written to disparage you. This is to give you the facts as well as all who read this. I don't hate BO. I certainly don't like his nor the congress' policy and will do all I can to change it not only for me but for all who are patinets and are willing to work to aquire the standard of care they desire

Those aren't facts, they are you opinion. As for your "sky is falling" argument, the real question is it falling faster than it was before. The US healthcare system ranks something like 35th in the world. And it ranks number 1 in costs. This is the system you're trying to support.
There is only one problem with your argument. It doesn't hold water. Show me a survey from ANY country in the world with true socialized medicine (Britain, Germany, France, Canada etc.) that demonstrates a desire to switch there form of healthcare to ours. Can't do it cause it isn't true.
As to Obamacare being socialized medicine, nothing is further from the truth. In fact, much of the criticism of Obama care comes the middle of the road apolitical people who are frustrated that the reforms didn't go nearly far enough.

M&K's Retrievers
06-23-2010, 01:06 AM
Those aren't facts, they are you opinion. As for your "sky is falling" argument, the real question is it falling faster than it was before. The US healthcare system ranks something like 35th in the world. And it ranks number 1 in costs. This is the system you're trying to support.
There is only one problem with your argument. It doesn't hold water. Show me a survey from ANY country in the world with true socialized medicine (Britain, Germany, France, Canada etc.) that demonstrates a desire to switch there form of healthcare to ours. Can't do it cause it isn't true.
As to Obamacare being socialized medicine, nothing is further from the truth. In fact, much of the criticism of Obama care comes the middle of the road apolitical people who are frustrated that the reforms didn't go nearly far enough.

1. Because it's worth it.
2. Because there are so many State and Federal regulations that increase the cost.
3. Because the uninsured are covered free of charge and that cost is passed on to those who can pay either taxpayers or insureds .
4. Those without insurance but who can afford to pay are charged less than those with insurance.
5. Lack of tort reform.
6. Cost of malpractice insurance - see #5
7. Cost of defensive medicine- see #5
8. Excessive testing and second opinions - see #5
9. Mandated coverage of self inflicted conditions IE drug abuse, alcoholism
10. Mandated coverage for normal delivery pregnancy - a planned condition that should be the parents responsibility (I'm not talking about complications).

I could go on but something has the dogs riled up.

david gibson
06-23-2010, 04:23 AM
1. Because it's worth it.
2. Because there are so many State and Federal regulations that increase the cost.
3. Because the uninsured are covered free of charge and that cost is passed on to those who can pay either taxpayers or insureds .
4. Those without insurance but who can afford to pay are charged less than those with insurance.
5. Lack of tort reform.
6. Cost of malpractice insurance - see #5
7. Cost of defensive medicine- see #5
8. Excessive testing and second opinions - see #5
9. Mandated coverage of self inflicted conditions IE drug abuse, alcoholism
10. Mandated coverage for normal delivery pregnancy - a planned condition that should be the parents responsibility (I'm not talking about complications).

I could go on but something has the dogs riled up.

love that sign-off! everything ok??

Brady is pissed, he is giving me the sad-eye look because he knows i am leaving and he is not invited. oh well, he will be rewarded with some nice fresh fish livers in about 9 hours..... ;-)

paul young
06-23-2010, 06:47 AM
Dippity, you must be the only American satisfied with Obongo's response to the spill. Even the ultra liberal NY Times have called the clean up effort a fiasco.

Ok.....

the pipe supplying water to your house has ruptured.....WITHOUT REPAIRING THE PIPE, you start to de-water your basement.

how do you think THAT fiasco would go?-Paul

Hew
06-23-2010, 07:01 AM
Ok.....

the pipe supplying water to your house has ruptured.....WITHOUT REPAIRING THE PIPE, you start to de-water your basement.

how do you THAT fiasco would go?-Paul
Well, it would keep the water from rising into your house and ruining all your valuable belongings while the leak is being repaired. Or I suppose you could ignore the leak and just let all your sh!t get ruined while you run down to the lawyer's office to line up your lawsuit.

Somehow I'm thinking that you didn't mean to provide so apt an analogy.

paul young
06-23-2010, 07:20 AM
yeah, it would, if you could remove as much water as was coming in.

the people on site cleaning up the oil don't have that capability. no one even really knows how much oil is leaking or from how many sites.

but there's really no problem anyway. drill baby, DRILL!!!-Paul

Franco
06-23-2010, 08:13 AM
From this morning's newspaper...



This is one small victory for the rule of law aganist the tyranny of the corrupt and criminal Obama regime.
In this ruling we see hope that the Marxist power grab by the regime can be twarted.
Obama wants to be Hugo Chavez, but is more Jimmy Carter.
As day 66 dawns, the oil creeps in. Killing marsh, animals, and heritage. The Obama regime responds by....... AGAIN obstructing the state leaders , interfering with the state's dredging operation to defend our marsh, and more threats of arbitrary moratorium.

Pals
06-23-2010, 08:33 AM
Did I hear the radio right this morning? Deputy of the Interior Salazar is going to immediately file another moratorium? Only this time it will be more detailed??? What the heck does that mean-more detailed? Are they going to target drills put in around the same time as the one that exploded? Or perhaps any other BP well?

It is my sincere hope that the courts shove this up the administration arse as well. The arrogance of Washington knows no bounds. Goose may be right-we do live in Cuba now............

paul young
06-23-2010, 08:56 AM
i thought there was no oil in your marshes?

drill, baby, drill!!!!!-Paul

M&K's Retrievers
06-23-2010, 09:20 AM
[QUOTE=david gibson;634049]love that sign-off! everything ok??

Yep. Just those pesky deer.

huntinman
06-23-2010, 09:25 AM
Did I hear the radio right this morning? Deputy of the Interior Salazar is going to immediately file another moratorium? Only this time it will be more detailed??? What the heck does that mean-more detailed? Are they going to target drills put in around the same time as the one that exploded? Or perhaps any other BP well?

It is my sincere hope that the courts shove this up the administration arse as well. The arrogance of Washington knows no bounds. Goose may be right-we do live in Cuba now............

Nope, just the ones that are producing oil!

Franco
06-23-2010, 09:27 AM
Did I hear the radio right this morning? Deputy of the Interior Salazar is going to immediately file another moratorium? Only this time it will be more detailed??? What the heck does that mean-more detailed? Are they going to target drills put in around the same time as the one that exploded? Or perhaps any other BP well?

It is my sincere hope that the courts shove this up the administration arse as well. The arrogance of Washington knows no bounds. Goose may be right-we do live in Cuba now............

You heard it right.

Appealing the judge's Injunction would take too long so Obama/Salazar will be filing for yet another frivilous moritorium.

What it means is that Obama is pushing for his Cap and Tax bill because he is anti-oil companies. It doesn't matter to him if he harms the La and Tx economies since they wouldn't vote for him anyway. The deepwater rigs will be moving to Brazil and Africa as they can't afford to wait this out. They can't afford losing hundreds of thousands per day.

The people of La and some in Tx are calling for a confrontation by shutting down our refineries and bring this confrontation to a head. By standing firm against Obama, the peoples of La and Tx can point the finger at Obama and create the pressure we need to open up Anwar in Alaska as well as letting the safe operators do thier thing in the Gulf Of Mexico.

If the administration can get gas at the pump to over the $5/$6. per gallon range, he stands a better changes of shoving Cap and Tax down everyone's throat.

The big implecations of his tyranny is that we will all suffer including buisnesses that employ people. By continuing to destroy the economy of the USA, Obama will have more power to continue with his redistribution of wealth. That translate to making us all poor and more dependent on big government.

Buzz
06-23-2010, 09:38 AM
If the administration can get gas at the pump to over the $5/$6. per gallon range, he stands a better changes of shoving Cap and Tax down everyone's throat.




I fail to see the logic in that.

Pals
06-23-2010, 09:47 AM
Ok.....

the pipe supplying water to your house has ruptured.....WITHOUT REPAIRING THE PIPE, you start to de-water your basement.

how do you think THAT fiasco would go?-Paul

Paul-

Does putting a moratorium on all your neighbors installing new water lines help you de-water your basement?

I'm by no means fluffing over what has happened-I am a conservationist and I realize that this oil spill will destroy a huge amount of the most sensative habitat's we have in this country-and no they will not bounce back as our POTUS stated. They are forever changed, how much they can recover, if at all, remains to be seen. I've restored lots of wetlands and they are not near the quality-either habitat wise, plant and animal diversity or water regimes-as the originals.

And yes I actually do have oil that will be drilled this summer, right smack in the middle of my soon to be built new wetland. Should be an interesting experience and provide some uniquie engineering issues for us.

paul young
06-23-2010, 09:58 AM
i was only responding to GMAN's rant about the cleanup being ineffective with that post. i think he thinks a miracle should be ordered up by the Coast guard and all the other people working to minimize the effect of this disaster.

i agree 100% with your assessment of what the gulf coast wetlands are in for and i think Obama has no idea of what coastland habitat consists of or to what extent it will"bounce back".-Paul

Franco
06-23-2010, 09:59 AM
I fail to see the logic in that.

There are a lot of people that believe Obama. He'll continue with his anti-drilling aganda and blame the greedy oil companies. Under the banner of global warming and greedy oil companies, he will try and shove his new Cap and Tax program through.

His buddies at the big investment banking firms will be handling the paper work making billions in commissions.

Remember, Obama is all about growing the size of the Federal Government. The bigger they can grow it, the more power they have. The bigger the government, the less power individuals and states will have.

I am encourgaed by the victories yestreday by Tea Party supported candidates. My concern is can we oust enough of the Obamanites before they destroy our economy completely?

Pals
06-23-2010, 10:02 AM
I'm sorry Paul-I thought that was directed at my comment. This whole thing is so very frustrating, I can't imagine what it must be like to have to wake up every morning and see the end result of this disaster.

Franco
06-23-2010, 10:15 AM
Obama's henchmen are attacking Judge Feldman's integrity.

Read below...

Feldman's 2008 financial disclosure report -- the most recent available -- also showed investments in Ocean Energy, a Houston-based company, as well as Quicksilver Resources, Prospect Energy, Peabody Energy, Halliburton, Pengrowth Energy Trust, Atlas Energy Resources, Parker Drilling and others. Halliburton was also involved in the doomed Deepwater Horizon project.
Feldman did not respond to requests for comment and to clarify whether he still holds some or all of these investments.
He's one of many federal judges across the Gulf Coast region with money in oil and gas. Several have disqualified themselves from hearing spill-related lawsuits and others have sold their holdings so they can preside over some of the 200-plus cases.
Although Feldman ruled in favor of oil interests Tuesday, one expert said his reasoning appeared sound because the six-month ban was overly broad.
"There's been some concern that he is biased toward the industry, but I don't see it in this opinion," said Tim Howard, a Northeastern University law professor who also represents businesses and people claiming economic losses in several spill-related lawsuits. "They overreacted and just shut an industry down, rather than focusing on where the problems are."

caryalsobrook
06-23-2010, 10:29 AM
Those aren't facts, they are you opinion. As for your "sky is falling" argument, the real question is it falling faster than it was before. The US healthcare system ranks something like 35th in the world. And it ranks number 1 in costs. This is the system you're trying to support.
There is only one problem with your argument. It doesn't hold water. Show me a survey from ANY country in the world with true socialized medicine (Britain, Germany, France, Canada etc.) that demonstrates a desire to switch there form of healthcare to ours. Can't do it cause it isn't true.
As to Obamacare being socialized medicine, nothing is further from the truth. In fact, much of the criticism of Obama care comes the middle of the road apolitical people who are frustrated that the reforms didn't go nearly far enough.

Fact? here are some facts. Britain went to total socialized medicine years ago. Since then they have been trying to privitize it again. Fact Britain now has a private option. You aske me to show you a country that wants to switch look at Brittain. Fact, I don't know where you get that the healthcare system ranks 35th and I don't know what the parameters for the ranking were. Fact, people from all over the world INCLUDING Canada flock to the US for treatment and pay for it. Don't believe me? Ask any large clinic or hospital in Cleveland Ohio or ask the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Mn. Fact- you CAN'T go to Canada and pay for treatment. You can only receive the treatment approved by the government. Why do you think they flock to the US and pay for it? Do you think they would come here if the healthcare was only ranked 35th in their minds and pay for it if they wern't denied healthcare there? What do you think the term SINGLE PAYER means?

You said that I only expressed opinion not fact. Tell me what is not fact in this reply or anything that I said initially. Ask dnf777 and maybe he can help you. As BO said "go for it".

depittydawg
06-23-2010, 10:35 AM
Obama's henchmen are attacking Judge Feldman's integrity.

Read below...

Feldman's 2008 financial disclosure report -- the most recent available -- also showed investments in Ocean Energy, a Houston-based company, as well as Quicksilver Resources, Prospect Energy, Peabody Energy, Halliburton, Pengrowth Energy Trust, Atlas Energy Resources, Parker Drilling and others. Halliburton was also involved in the doomed Deepwater Horizon project.
Feldman did not respond to requests for comment and to clarify whether he still holds some or all of these investments.
He's one of many federal judges across the Gulf Coast region with money in oil and gas. Several have disqualified themselves from hearing spill-related lawsuits and others have sold their holdings so they can preside over some of the 200-plus cases.
Although Feldman ruled in favor of oil interests Tuesday, one expert said his reasoning appeared sound because the six-month ban was overly broad.
"There's been some concern that he is biased toward the industry, but I don't see it in this opinion," said Tim Howard, a Northeastern University law professor who also represents businesses and people claiming economic losses in several spill-related lawsuits. "They overreacted and just shut an industry down, rather than focusing on where the problems are."

Whether or not you want a moratorium this is a bogus decision. Did you read it? It seems to have little to no legal standing and will likely not stand.
http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10004970/drilling-in-the-gulf/
It would appear its all smoke and mirrors anyway
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/us/24moratorium.html
The absurdity of the media hype that has you folks so riled up,
36 wells have been affected (shut down) by the Executive Order. That leaves 3600 wells still operating. It isn't a moratorium. Hell it isn't even a slowdown. What I suggest for you folks who actually live down there is to quit focusing on the politics and go to the coast and start cleaning the place up. If it was my coast, you can bet that's what I'd be doing.

Franco
06-23-2010, 10:47 AM
Whether or not you want a moratorium this is a bogus decision. Did you read it? It seems to have little to no legal standing and will likely not stand.
http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10004970/drilling-in-the-gulf/
It would appear its all smoke and mirrors anyway
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/us/24moratorium.html
The absurdity of the media hype that has you folks so riled up,
36 wells have been affected (shut down) by the Executive Order. That leaves 3600 wells still operating. It isn't a moratorium. Hell it isn't even a slowdown. What I suggest for you folks who actually live down there is to quit focusing on the politics and go to the coast and start cleaning the place up. If it was my coast, you can bet that's what I'd be doing.

Yes, I've read it and it is an intelligent decision by the judge. Did you read why he ruled for the Injunction?

Doesn't matter if it it will hold up. Obamo can't Appeal until late 2010 at the earliest so, they are going to try an end run by filing another frivoluos moritorium with different language.

P S They don't need anymore clean up workers in La. We are turning folks away. What we need id more help from the Feds in getting more vaccum barges in the gulf, where the oil is. Feds need to stop dragging thier feet! Oil has reached some of the barrier marshes but to claim that it is in the marshes is a stretch.

Eric Johnson
06-23-2010, 01:52 PM
For those who are interested in reading the decision.....

a. The decision: http://www.laed.uscourts.gov/GENERAL/Notices/10-1663_doc67.pdf

b. The actual order: http://www.laed.uscourts.gov/GENERAL/Notices/10-1663_doc68.pdf

Eric

road kill
06-23-2010, 01:59 PM
Yes, I've read it and it is an intelligent decision by the judge. Did you read why he ruled for the Injunction?
Doesn't matter if it it will hold up. Obamo can't Appeal until late 2010 at the earliest so, they are going to try an end run by filing another frivoluos moritorium with different language.

P S They don't need anymore clean up workers in La. We are turning folks away. What we need id more help from the Feds in getting more vaccum barges in the gulf, where the oil is. Feds need to stop dragging thier feet! Oil has reached some of the barrier marshes but to claim that it is in the marshes is a stretch.


I read it, he removed the halt because this administration LIED!!!

And we all know how the middle of the road independents here hate Presidents who lie!!;-)



rk

Franco
06-23-2010, 03:35 PM
Correct, Obama went against his panel of expert's opinion on the moritorium.

33 Deep water rigs support 60-65,000 workers in real jobs. Not Fed created BS jobs. Three are currently on thier way to Brazil and won't return for at least 3-5 years.

depittydawg
06-23-2010, 04:34 PM
Correct, Obama went against his panel of expert's opinion on the moritorium.

33 Deep water rigs support 60-65,000 workers in real jobs. Not Fed created BS jobs. Three are currently on thier way to Brazil and won't return for at least 3-5 years.

Perhaps you should look at it from another angle. One deep rig failure has completely poisoned your environment. To date, we, meaning the industry, local, state, and federal governments have absolutely no clue on how to stop the hemorrhage. That means, that not if, but when, another of these thing blows out, you get to deal with double the disaster you're already burred under. What rational thinking human being would not STOP drilling in the face of this. Had Obama simply asked the other oil companies to STOP, they would have likely gladly complied. If he were to come out today and say, go ahead and drill to your hearts content, but don't come knocking on my door when you screw up again, you ok with that?

Franco
06-23-2010, 04:41 PM
Perhaps you should look at it from another angle. One deep rig failure has completely poisoned your environment. To date, we, meaning the industry, local, state, and federal governments have absolutely no clue on how to stop the hemorrhage. That means, that not if, but when, another of these thing blows out, you get to deal with double the disaster you're already burred under. What rational thinking human being would not STOP drilling in the face of this. Had Obama simply asked the other oil companies to STOP, they would have likely gladly complied. If he were to come out today and say, go ahead and drill to your hearts content, but don't come knocking on my door when you screw up again, you ok with that?

Your facts are all wrong.

1- Our environment is not completely poisoned. I have a friend that caught his limit of Amerberjack 40 miles offshore on Saturday.
2- The accident was caused by human error.
3- The saftey record has been exceptional with over 40,000 rigs drilled in the gulf prior to this human error.
4- Those other rigs belong to a number of Oil Companies and those other companies(Exxon, Valero, etc) would not have gladly complied.

depittydawg
06-23-2010, 04:57 PM
Your facts are all wrong.

1- Our environment is not completely poisoned. I have a friend that caught his limit of Amerberjack 40 miles offshore on Saturday.
The leak is still flowing. You still don't know the extent of the damage that will be done. You still have no idea on whether or not this 'leak' can be stopped.
2- The accident was caused by human error.
What safegaurds have been put in place to ensure that human error does not reoccur? The fact that it was human error is all the more reason to stop.
3- The saftey record has been exceptional with over 40,000 rigs drilled in the gulf prior to this human error.
There are what, 33 deep water rigs in place today? Of those you have one blowout. That's not a good record.
4- Those other rigs belong to a number of Oil Companies and those other companies(Exxon, Valero, etc) would not have gladly complied.
I'm no expert on this business. But I do manage ,supervise and operate pretty sophisticated machinery in my line of work. I do know that what can go wrong probably will, and in this case we don't know if we can repair the damages. That is why I support the moratorium. Get the hole plugged. Show us this technology is safe, and then get back to work.

huntinman
06-23-2010, 05:00 PM
I'm no expert on this business. But I do manage ,supervise and operate pretty sophisticated machinery in my line of work. I do know that what can go wrong probably will, and in this case we don't know if we can repair the damages. That is why I support the moratorium. Get the hole plugged. Show us this technology is safe, and then get back to work.

You probably support Cap & Tax as well right? Good reason to support tearing down the oil industry.

Franco
06-23-2010, 05:04 PM
Get the hole plugged. Show us this technology is safe, and then get back to work.



The technology is safe when it is working. That is why the have Blow Out Preventors as back up to human error. FEDERAL inspectors have failed us.

There won't be any going back to work. Those rigs are leaving the area now to drill in deeper water elsewhere around the world.

Citizens are calling for a shutdown of refineries. If Obama can disregard the court, than we can too.

Short term pain for long term gain!

Captain Mike D
06-23-2010, 06:29 PM
Correct, Obama went against his panel of expert's opinion on the moritorium.

33 Deep water rigs support 60-65,000 workers in real jobs. Not Fed created BS jobs. Three are currently on thier way to Brazil and won't return for at least 3-5 years.

All of them will be headed elsewhere. Who in there right mind would elect to work in a hostile environment where the goverment says drill, no wait stop drilling, well you can drill again, and then Salizar (Obama) says duh, we worded it wrong and we intend to stop you again.......... stop drilling.

ducknwork
06-24-2010, 07:38 AM
What safegaurds have been put in place to ensure that human error does not reoccur? The fact that it was human error is all the more reason to stop.


Human error is the easiest possible cause to fix. Trust me. I work in a maintenance department that deals with equipment failures and human error causing downtime every day. It is MUCH easier to tell the operator to do something differently or have 3 people check behind him than it is to fix broken equipment and safeguard it against future breakdowns. If the actual cause of the incident was indeed human error, we should count ourselves lucky.

david gibson
06-24-2010, 08:31 AM
Human error is the easiest possible cause to fix. Trust me. I work in a maintenance department that deals with equipment failures and human error causing downtime every day. It is MUCH easier to tell the operator to do something differently or have 3 people check behind him than it is to fix broken equipment and safeguard it against future breakdowns. If the actual cause of the incident was indeed human error, we should count ourselves lucky.

when the number one safety violator is BP with some 760 violations compared to single digits for nos. 2 and 3 over the same period, coupled with the same types of numbers in the Texas City refinery blast, well, not hard to see where to begin.

its a corporate mentality of shortcuts and risky cost savings.

Buzz
06-24-2010, 09:19 AM
All of them will be headed elsewhere. Who in there right mind would elect to work in a hostile environment where the goverment says drill, no wait stop drilling, well you can drill again, and then Salizar (Obama) says duh, we worded it wrong and we intend to stop you again.......... stop drilling.

You act as if the stoppage was just something that the government just pulled out of their arses. No spill of epic proportions here...

david gibson
06-24-2010, 09:54 AM
You act as if the stoppage was just something that the government just pulled out of their arses. No spill of epic proportions here...

you act as if this government has a clue on and cares about how the industry works - and doesnt have its own radical energy agendas. No ineptitude or dictatorial ambitions of epic proportions here...

dnf777
06-24-2010, 10:00 AM
Human error is the easiest possible cause to fix. .

Not if the human error occurred because of stupidity. You can't fix stupid! We learned that in the past decade. Well, some of us have. ;)

huntinman
06-24-2010, 10:04 AM
Not if the human error occurred because of stupidity. You can't fix stupid! We learned that in the past decade. Well, some of us have. ;)

And you proved it by electing Obama.

Buzz
06-24-2010, 10:15 AM
Interesting snippet from the report written by Cheney's energy task force.

http://www.wtrg.com/EnergyReport/National-Energy-Policy.pdf



Today’s oil and gas exploration technology, for example, is boosting the success
rate of pinpointing new resources. The results: fewer dry holes, reduced
waste volumes, and a cleaner environment. Smaller, lighter drilling rigs coupled
with advances in directional and extended-reach drilling significantly increase
protection of the environment.
• Advanced, more energy efficient drilling and production methods:
— reduce emissions;
— practically eliminate spills from offshore platforms; and
— enhance worker safety, lower risk of blowouts, and provide better
protection of groundwater resources.
• With each improvement in operational performance and efficiency, more
oil and gas resources can be recovered with fewer wells drilled, resulting
in smaller volumes of:
— cuttings;
— drilling muds and fluids; and
— produced waters.
• Modular drilling rigs, “slimhole” drilling, directional drilling, and other
advances enable:
— production of oil and gas with increased protection to wetlands
and other sensitive environments;
— reduced greenhouse gas emissions;
and worker safety through the use of innovative best management
practices.

dnf777
06-24-2010, 10:31 AM
And you proved it by electing Obama.

I would say we proved it by electing and re-electing Bush, and the evidence I offer is the financial mess and two wars we're involved in! The proof is right before your eyes. Only problem is, we didn't *clearly* elect him the first time, and the second time, he lost the popular election. So I cut ourselves a little slack.

david gibson
06-24-2010, 10:32 AM
Interesting snippet from the report written by Cheney's energy task force.

http://www.wtrg.com/EnergyReport/National-Energy-Policy.pdf

and its 100% correct, which is why lOser is wrong on this moratorium.

saying otherwise is the same as touting the safety of automobiles today. better crash design, airbags, vastly improved traffic flow, highway design, etc etc make driving far safer than ever before. cant argue with that one iota. 44,525 deaths against a population of 216 million in 1975 vs 33,900 against a population of 307 million in 2009. cut in half percapita.

but do we shut it all down because some drunk driver causes a pileup that kills 20 people??? or because nearly 100 are killed every day?

huntinman
06-24-2010, 10:39 AM
I would say we proved it by electing and re-electing Bush, and the evidence I offer is the financial mess and two wars we're involved in! The proof is right before your eyes. Only problem is, we didn't *clearly* elect him the first time, and the second time, he lost the popular election. So I cut ourselves a little slack.

Ah, the old fallback...Bush.

Also, better check your numbers on the 04 election.

Buzz
06-24-2010, 10:45 AM
and its 100% correct, which is why lOser is wrong on this moratorium.

saying otherwise is the same as touting the safety of automobiles today. better crash design, airbags, vastly improved traffic flow, highway design, etc etc make driving far safer than ever before. cant argue with that one iota. 44,525 deaths against a population of 216 million in 1975 vs 33,900 against a population of 307 million in 2009. cut in half percapita.

but do we shut it all down because some drunk driver causes a pileup that kills 20 people??? or because nearly 100 are killed every day?

If there is one thing I blame Obama for is that problems with MMS were exposed just before his election in 2008, and he did not clean up the problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091001829.html?sid=ST2008091002738

david gibson
06-24-2010, 11:04 AM
If there is one thing I blame Obama for is that problems with MMS were exposed just before his election in 2008, and he did not clean up the problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091001829.html?sid=ST2008091002738

if thats the only thing you can blame obama for then you really are ____________.

i'd love to see how various people here fill in that blank! (just keep it civil)

Goose
06-24-2010, 11:20 AM
You act as if the stoppage was just something that the government just pulled out of their arses. No spill of epic proportions here...

That's actually a pretty accurate statement because the Interior Department report that recommended a six-month drilling ban that was supposedly peer reviewed was a fraud. The KY jelly was flowing when this turd-of-a-report was issued. Just ask the panel of experts who did the peer review. It was only after they signed-off on the draft that Barry's Administration added the provision that included the six-month moratorium.

Our dictatorial Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said the call was his to make so I guess that means the fraudulent and fabricated report was initially pulled deep out of his ass. But give credit to Oilbama, too because the moratorium paragraph that was added to the report after the peer review was requested by President Obama himself so I guess that means it could have been pulled out of his ass, too.

But not to be outdone Oilbama's environmental nazi Carol Browner said that no one has been deceived or misrepresented...a statement that involves more KY jelly to extract that statement from Ms. Browner's bottom.

In fact, the experts who signed off on this fraudulent, turd-of-a-report stated that there was no discussion of a moratorium on existing drilling because "if anybody had made that suggestion, we'd have said that's craziness."

So tens of thousands of jobs will be lost because Barry, Ken and Carol all support a fraudulent and deceptive report they claim was peer reviewed. It wasn't. Just look for the KY jelly stains.

We live in Cuba now.

dnf777
06-24-2010, 11:21 AM
Ah, the old fallback...Bush.

Also, better check your numbers on the 04 election.

Oops, you're right. I mixed up my American disasters! Gore won the popular vote in 2000. We were just stupid in 2004! But not to worry, there's a new guy now you can pass all the blame onto! As well as the screw-up he's making on his own now.

Buzz
06-24-2010, 11:24 AM
if thats the only thing you can blame obama for then you really are ____________.

i'd love to see how various people here fill in that blank! (just keep it civil)

I said "one of the things." Thanks putting words in my mouth.

david gibson
06-24-2010, 11:29 AM
I said "one of the things." Thanks putting words in my mouth.

no you didn't. you said:
"If there is one thing I blame Obama for is that problems with MMS were exposed just before his election in 2008, and he did not clean up the problem."

cant you even quote yourself correctly just a couple of posts up the page? with a good flat screen you probably wouldnt have even had to scroll to see it......but if you want to put different words in your mouth have at it!

ducknwork
06-24-2010, 11:39 AM
Not if the human error occurred because of stupidity. You can't fix stupid! We learned that in the past decade. Well, some of us have. ;)

I doubt the problem is stupidity. IMO, it is more likely to be laziness and greed. Big problems, but not too hard to fix within a business.

Like I said, if human error is the root cause of this disaster, we should be very happy about that going into the future.

rboudet
06-24-2010, 12:03 PM
At least BPs clean up effort is hard at work and is money well spent. Unbelieveable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RPrtxFa5R4

Captain Mike D
06-24-2010, 06:21 PM
You act as if the stoppage was just something that the government just pulled out of their arses. No spill of epic proportions here...

Buzz,

I know you are a long way from the Gulf, but just how many spills
of any proportion have you read or heard about in the Gulf in the last 60 years? Let's see..... 2.
The guys, and companies that propel our economy and supply the raw material that is turned into countless things like fiberglass resin, epoxy, formica type laminate, acrylic, and a whole host of fibers that you are wearing have a darn good record.

Baby with bath water regards,

Mike

paul young
06-24-2010, 09:35 PM
after watching that video, i am not very impressed with the response by BP. ARE YOU?

Franco? Captain Mike? Ducknwork? ANYBODY????!!!!!!

this was 2 weeks ago, when Franco was telling us everything was being blown out of proportion. it's worse, now.....

there's been plenty of KY jelly applied all right, Goose!

WE DON'T LIVE IN Cuba, WE LIVE IN A CESS POOL NOW-Paul

Franco
06-24-2010, 11:05 PM
after watching that video, i am not very impressed with the response by BP YOU. ARE?

Franco? Captain Mike? Ducknwork? ANYBODY????!!!!!!

this was 2 weeks ago, when Franco was telling us everything was being blown out of proportion. it's worse, now.....

there's been plenty of KY jelly applied all right, Goose!

WE DON'T LIVE IN Cuba, WE LIVE IN A CESS POOL NOW-Paul

At least BP is willing to spend money in getting the place cleaned up. Their mistake was in hiring inner-city loafers out for the paycheck and short on work ethic.

I've seen the video before that Bobby posted and it shows the worse of the worse.

The Feds however have no excuse. This is from yesterday.
http://photos.nola.com/4500/gallery/oil_spill_photos_june_23_2010/index.html

ducknwork
06-25-2010, 07:11 AM
after watching that video, i am not very impressed with the response by BP. ARE YOU?

Franco? Captain Mike? Ducknwork? ANYBODY????!!!!!!

this was 2 weeks ago, when Franco was telling us everything was being blown out of proportion. it's worse, now.....

there's been plenty of KY jelly applied all right, Goose!

WE DON'T LIVE IN Cuba, WE LIVE IN A CESS POOL NOW-Paul

I am not very impressed with the response shown in that video. Great. We agree on something. Do you think that we can agree on something else? How about this--that video most likely did not show what was going on in the majority of places that BP (or anyone else) is cleaning up. That location was most likely selected to make it look like that is what is happening everywhere.

In all honesty, the video was disturbing and heartbreaking. But I still believe that it will all get cleaned up and things will be back to 'normal'. It won't be today, or next week. It might even be a few years from now. But it will happen. This is not the end of the world.

david gibson
06-25-2010, 08:25 AM
I am not very impressed with the response shown in that video. Great. We agree on something. Do you think that we can agree on something else? How about this--that video most likely did not show what was going on in the majority of places that BP (or anyone else) is cleaning up. That location was most likely selected to make it look like that is what is happening everywhere.

In all honesty, the video was disturbing and heartbreaking. But I still believe that it will all get cleaned up and things will be back to 'normal'. It won't be today, or next week. It might even be a few years from now. But it will happen. This is not the end of the world.

but didnt obama promise us last week that it will be better than before??

ducknwork
06-25-2010, 11:47 AM
but didnt obama promise us last week that it will be better than before??

Good point. I guess I forgot to check the list of approved responses before I typed that.;-)