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View Full Version : the az "broad" speaks up!



david gibson
06-29-2010, 01:30 PM
gotta love her moxie....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzDlN7VLmXQ&feature=player_embedded

huntinman
06-29-2010, 01:31 PM
She's twice the man bambi is. Maybe we could get them to swap offices.

M&K's Retrievers
06-29-2010, 01:53 PM
He wouldn't last a week in AZ.

depittydawg
06-29-2010, 04:25 PM
gotta love her moxie....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzDlN7VLmXQ&feature=player_embedded

She is right about two points. Washington is broken. It was broken when Obama got there, and it isn't any better today. Also, she is correct that the immigration policy doesn't work. Obama is the man now. Whatever caused the problems he inherited doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how many other Presidents failed to solve them either. They're his now. I'm reminded of this little video. I got a kick out of it. I might have posted it here before but if you haven't seen it it's hilarious.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f5a57185bd/funny-or-die-s-presidential-reunion?rel=auto_related&rel_pos=2

depittydawg
06-29-2010, 04:26 PM
He wouldn't last a week in AZ.

Haven't you heard? Obama is going to Phoenix for a fund raiser in August.:D

bobbyb
06-30-2010, 08:42 AM
Obama is going to Phoenix

Prolly gonna tell them I fixed It." here's your sign"
BobbyB
cajun

Pals
06-30-2010, 08:54 AM
So which is it????

From DeppityDawg

Is this Broad for real? Does she actually have a chance at winning an election in Az?

or this agreement with her?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Kudos to her for standing up for her state and calling washington out.

Buzz
06-30-2010, 09:05 AM
I read an article that says that those signs were put up in 2006 under the Bush administration.

Her ad implies that she talked to Obama and the signs were the administrations answer.

But these are politicians we're dealing with I guess.

dixidawg
06-30-2010, 09:09 AM
Watching that again, the sign looks new. The wood itself is not weathered at all.

What article said they were put up in 2006?

Buzz
06-30-2010, 09:12 AM
Watching that again, the sign looks new. The wood itself is not weathered at all.

What article said they were put up in 2006?

Now you're going to make me have to dig around. I have a letter to compose/type, then I'll look.

Buzz
06-30-2010, 09:37 AM
Watching that again, the sign looks new. The wood itself is not weathered at all.

What article said they were put up in 2006?

Here you go.

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/docs/MediaAdvisory.BorderRefugeOpen.62010.pdf

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/refuges/arizona/buenosaires/PDFs/Closure.pdf

Here is the fair and balanced reporting from FOX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI6VXAYY5yw&feature=PlayList&p=1FB74EDE97AA9821&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=24

WTF???

dback
06-30-2010, 09:44 AM
I read an article that says that those signs were put up in 2006 under the Bush administration.

Her ad implies that she talked to Obama and the signs were the administrations answer.

But these are politicians we're dealing with I guess.

LMFAO......this is exactly what happens when someone from a million miles away has all the answers.

1) Notice bar codes on plywood....not faded.....even a mid level union forklift operator would know where to stack them.

2) Notice yellow color of plywood.....ALL lumber in June Arizona sun has a shelf life of two weeks.

3) And....most importantly....(more accurate than 'carbon' dating).....not a single bullet hole; any fool knows that no sign in rural Arizona survives more than 72.5 hours without being used for it's primary duel purpose function......:-)

At least camouflage that 'tin foil' lid. ;-)

Buzz
06-30-2010, 09:49 AM
LMFAO......this is exactly what happens when someone from a million miles away has all the answers.

1) Notice bar codes on plywood....not faded.....even a mid level union forklift operator would know where to stack them.

2) Notice yellow color of plywood.....ALL lumber in June Arizona sun has a shelf life of two weeks.

3) And....most importantly....(more accurate than 'carbon' dating).....not a single bullet hole; any fool knows that no sign in rural Arizona survives more than 72.5 hours without being used for it's primary duel purpose function......:-)

At least camouflage that 'tin foil' lid. ;-)

You don't think there were some fresh new signs put out for that ad?

Read the statements from the US Fish and Wildlife Service.


Several media outlets have been inaccurately reporting that a massive stretch of the US border at
Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge (NWR) was recently closed. Buenos Aires NWR in
southern Arizona has not been closed to the public. Nearly 5-years ago, a very small portion of the
Refuge closed to public access due to public safety concerns. However, the remainder (97%) of the
refuge's 118,000 acres is open to the public for recreational activities such as hiking, camping, birdwatching,
and seasonal hunting.
Recent news items further falsely stated that the closure extends from the border 80-miles to the
north. This distance is far from accurate. On October 6, 2006 roughly 3500 acres, or 3% of the
Refuge, was closed to public access due to human safety concerns. At that time there was a marked
increase in violence along the border due to human and drug trafficking. The closed area extends
north from the international border roughly of a mile. A notice of the closure, including a map
has been on the Refuge website since 2006.

Watch the FOX reporting. They claim that huge swaths of land were given back to Mexico.

david gibson
06-30-2010, 09:50 AM
Here you go.

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/docs/MediaAdvisory.BorderRefugeOpen.62010.pdf

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/refuges/arizona/buenosaires/PDFs/Closure.pdf

Here is the fair and balanced reporting from FOX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI6VXAYY5yw&feature=PlayList&p=1FB74EDE97AA9821&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=24

WTF???


its real simple buzz. the closure started in 2006. big deal. the fed wasnt threatening to sue AZ then, and the fed didnt just promise them 1200 NG troops and failed to deliver, and the fed wasnt being an all around jerk and siding with third world countries against a states sovereign rights. AZ pleads for help, and after all the above O comes in and puts up even more newer signs - thats all.

so you have a point, but its a different situation. its dire now, AZ is desperate and O slaps them in the face with this.

dback
06-30-2010, 09:55 AM
Here you go.

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/docs/MediaAdvisory.BorderRefugeOpen.62010.pdf

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/refuges/arizona/buenosaires/PDFs/Closure.pdf

Here is the fair and balanced reporting from FOX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI6VXAYY5yw&feature=PlayList&p=1FB74EDE97AA9821&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=24

WTF???

Try again Buzz.....the links you posted reference the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge and are posted in the NWR by the Fish and Wildlife Service (notice their little emblem). The signs referenced by the OP are along I-8 and numerous other sights (as I've stated before) and were placed there by BLM (notice their cute little emblem). No worries however...these signs should do the trick.....after all, we all know how effective the 2006 signs placed in the Buenos Aires NWR have been. :rolleyes:

dixidawg
06-30-2010, 09:56 AM
You don't think there were some fresh new signs put out for that ad?

Read the statements from the US Fish and Wildlife Service.



Watch the FOX reporting. They claim that huge swaths of land were given back to Mexico.


Is the Fish and Wildlife Service part of the BLM?

The link you provided that claims the signs are from 2006 is from F&W, but the sign pictured on the youtube clip is from BLM. Could it be that F&W put up signs in 2006 in a different area, and BLM recently sent new signs?



EDIT: dback beat me to it

dback
06-30-2010, 10:00 AM
You don't think there were some fresh new signs put out for that ad

The State of Arizona placed Bureau of Land Management signs out for an ad????? What the hell have you been smoking?

Pals
06-30-2010, 10:08 AM
Not to worry-this guy has all the answers!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/29/congressman-says-borders-secure/

Everything is secure and just fine and dandy!!!!

well I don't know about you, but I feel better already...........................

Buzz
06-30-2010, 10:52 AM
Ok, I found this about the Bureau of Land Management signs.

They are not as the Brewer stated, the response by the Obama Administration to their recent meeting in Washington.




Smuggling violence prompts stronger warning to visitors at national monument south of Phoenix

JACQUES BILLEAUD
Associated Press Writer
June 15, 2010 | 4:26 p.m.

PHOENIX (AP) An increase in smuggling violence at the Sonoran Desert National Monument about 80 miles south of Phoenix has prompted a stronger warning to visitors about drug and immigrant traffickers passing through the public lands, officials said Tuesday.

The monument and three other federal lands in Arizona already have signs warning visitors that they may encounter smugglers. But 11 new signs have recently been erected and two more were planned at the Sonoran Desert National Monument.

The new signs warn visitors about speeding smuggling vehicles and instruct them to walk away when seeing something suspicious and avoid abandoned vehicles and backpacks because they might contain drugs stashed there by smugglers.


Tom Lister, the Bureau of Land Management's chief law enforcement ranger in Arizona, said authorities felt a stronger warning was needed because the area is near where a Pinal County deputy was shot in a confrontation with marijuana smugglers in April and where two men suspected of being involved in smuggling were fatally shot earlier this month.

Signs warning visitors of smugglers have been put up in the past in southern Arizona at the Sonoran Desert National Monument, Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge, Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument and Coronado National Forest.

The new signs were erected at the Sonoran Desert National Monument's access points south of Interstate 8 between Casa Grande and Gila Bend.

While the monument isn't located directly on the border, it's used as a pathway for traffickers headed to Phoenix, a busy hub for moving illegal immigrants and marijuana across the United States.

Smuggling at the monument declined from 2005 through 2008 but is picking up again, Lister said.

Authorities said they weren't telling visitors to stay out of the monument, though the new signs encourage people to use the monument's lands north of the interstate.

Tom Lister, the Bureau of Land Management's chief law enforcement ranger in Arizona, said authorities felt a stronger warning was needed because the area is near where a Pinal County deputy was shot in a confrontation with marijuana smugglers in April and where two men suspected of being involved in smuggling were fatally shot earlier this month.

Signs warning visitors of smugglers have been put up in the past in southern Arizona at the Sonoran Desert National Monument, Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge, Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument and Coronado National Forest.

The new signs were erected at the Sonoran Desert National Monument's access points south of Interstate 8 between Casa Grande and Gila Bend.

While the monument isn't located directly on the border, it's used as a pathway for traffickers headed to Phoenix, a busy hub for moving illegal immigrants and marijuana across the United States.

Smuggling at the monument declined from 2005 through 2008 but is picking up again, Lister said.

Authorities said they weren't telling visitors to stay out of the monument, though the new signs encourage people to use the monument's lands north of the interstate.

depittydawg
06-30-2010, 11:12 AM
its real simple buzz. the closure started in 2006. big deal. the fed wasnt threatening to sue AZ then, and the fed didnt just promise them 1200 NG troops and failed to deliver, and the fed wasnt being an all around jerk and siding with third world countries against a states sovereign rights. AZ pleads for help, and after all the above O comes in and puts up even more newer signs - thats all.

so you have a point, but its a different situation. its dire now, AZ is desperate and O slaps them in the face with this.

Don't know how things work in Az but in my neck of the woods the Fed doesn't control National Guard Troops. The Governor does. Unless of course the Fed steals them and sends them to Iraq or some other godforsaken hell hole to fight for oil. So I guess my question is what troops? Is the Gov asking that NG troops deployed by the Fed be returned? If so, has she deployed the troops under her authority yet?

depittydawg
06-30-2010, 11:14 AM
Ok, I found this about the Bureau of Land Management signs.

They are not as the Brewer stated, the response by the Obama Administration to their recent meeting in Washington.

What! You mean the governor is lying or otherwise using false information to inflame and incite the citizens of her state into action? How can that be?

dback
06-30-2010, 11:25 AM
So, why don't you tell me Buzz.....exactly how many NWRs, National Forests, Monuments, Public lands in Arlzona need to be closed/warned before you South Dakotans will accept some degree of frustration by us Arizonans? I know of at least two new signs placed WEST of Gila Bend and south of I-8.......not even close to the SDNM. Maybe you and your little AP reporter could make a trip out there instead of simply grasping for straws. Those signs were placed after Gov Brewers meeting with Obama, with no other contact until yesterday from the O administration and in light of Senator John Kyle's comments......looks like the signs are the best we can hope for.

dback
06-30-2010, 11:30 AM
What! You mean the governor is lying or otherwise using false information to inflame and incite the citizens of her state into action? How can that be?

I'll bet an electrical engineer is just all a flutter knowing you've got his back. :rolleyes:

Marvin S
06-30-2010, 11:40 AM
So, why don't you tell me Buzz.....exactly how many NWRs, National Forests, Monuments, Public lands in Arlzona need to be closed/warned before you South Dakotans will accept some degree of frustration by us Arizonans? I know of at least two new signs placed WEST of Gila Bend and south of I-8.......not even close to the SDNM. Maybe you and your little AP reporter could make a trip out there instead of simply grasping for straws. Those signs were placed after Gov Brewers meeting with Obama, with no other contact until yesterday from the O administration and in light of Senator John Kyle's comments......looks like the signs are the best we can hope for.

Buzz is not a NATIVE SDan. He is from MI, including his total education & his thought process bears that out.

Were he a NATIVE, someone back there would be taking him to the woodshed. He probably thought Daschle was doing a good job :).

I am from SD including most of my education & the people who deal with me in WA think me to be different. I tell them it's normal back there ;-).

Buzz
06-30-2010, 01:05 PM
Buzz is not a NATIVE SDan. He is from MI, including his total education & his thought process bears that out.

Were he a NATIVE, someone back there would be taking him to the woodshed. He probably thought Daschle was doing a good job :).

I am from SD including most of my education & the people who deal with me in WA think me to be different. I tell them it's normal back there ;-).

But from this thread, you'd never know that I am totally against illegal immigration, and think that the federal government has been totally irresponsible in not doing anything about it. But that doesn't mean that I'm anti immigration. I think we need to try and attract the smartest and highest skilled people that we can from all over the world. What we don't need is more people coming in to do "jobs that Americans won't do." That's code for, jobs that Americans don't want to do for next to nothing.

What I object to is the characterization that this is a new problem since Obama came in to office. He who shall not be mentioned here pandered to the Latino population for votes just as the Democrats are now. Democrats see the Latino community as their ticket to a permanent majority.

dback
06-30-2010, 01:26 PM
But from this thread, you'd never know that I am totally against illegal immigration Holy shit...so you agree with some 70% of Arizonans and think that the federal government has been totally irresponsible in not doing anything about it. Probably 99% of Arizonans But that doesn't mean that I'm anti immigration. 100% of Arizonans I think we need to try and attract the smartest and highest skilled people that we can from all over the world. What we don't need is more people coming in to do "jobs that Americans won't do." That's code for, jobs that Americans don't want to do for next to nothing.

What I object to is the characterization that this is a new problem since Obama came in to office. Maybe you aren't aware that Napolitano was sending monthly bills to the Feds for their failure to preform their duties????? He who shall not be mentioned here pandered to the Latino population for votes just as the Democrats are now. Democrats see the Latino community as their ticket to a permanent majority. Agreed

...................

paul young
06-30-2010, 01:49 PM
Don't know how things work in Az but in my neck of the woods the Fed doesn't control National Guard Troops. The Governor does. Unless of course the Fed steals them and sends them to Iraq or some other godforsaken hell hole to fight for oil. So I guess my question is what troops? Is the Gov asking that NG troops deployed by the Fed be returned? If so, has she deployed the troops under her authority yet?


.........crickets chirping...................

dixidawg
06-30-2010, 02:18 PM
Don't know how things work in Az but in my neck of the woods the Fed doesn't control National Guard Troops. The Governor does. Unless of course the Fed steals them and sends them to Iraq or some other godforsaken hell hole to fight for oil. So I guess my question is what troops? Is the Gov asking that NG troops deployed by the Fed be returned? If so, has she deployed the troops under her authority yet?


I *believe* that if the National Guard is to be called for federal service, only the commander in chief can do that.

Would protecting a National border be considered federal service? If so, would the Governor have any authority?

paul young
06-30-2010, 02:24 PM
I *believe* that if the National Guard is to be called for federal service, only the commander in chief can do that.

Would protecting a National border be considered federal service? If so, would the Governor have any authority?

isn't it also a state border?-Paul

Pals
06-30-2010, 02:30 PM
I believe it all comes down to the dollar-if she calls them up Arizona is stuck with the tab correct? And is the Arizona State Gov(state legislatures) going to authorize the expenditure. Why should Arizona get stuck paying the tab for a federal border?

depittydawg
06-30-2010, 02:31 PM
I *believe* that if the National Guard is to be called for federal service, only the commander in chief can do that.

Would protecting a National border be considered federal service? If so, would the Governor have any authority?

Not sure. It makes sense though.

dback
06-30-2010, 05:02 PM
I believe it all comes down to the dollar-if she calls them up Arizona is stuck with the tab correct? And is the Arizona State Gov(state legislatures) going to authorize the expenditure. Why should Arizona get stuck paying the tab for a federal border?

Bingo! Arizona tax payers have for years shouldered the burden of a Federal responsibility. Under the Bush administration we received roughly a dime on the dollar....the O admin. has flipped us the ole 'bird'. The last I read, Arizona was due nearly $750 million for the cost of incarcerating illegals alone....that does not include education, medical, food stamps, etc. etc. etc. Arizona, by constitution, must operate within a balanced budget and this is an expense we can no longer bear. It is easy to sit in other states and call us 'racist' while we (with three other states) bear the lions share of the financial burden for the entire American population. Add in 'Trashed' and/or closed portions of our state, death threats to our LEOs, threats to citizens, investment homes destroyed when used as a 'drop house'.....the list just goes on and on. If you 'nay sayers' would consider for a moment, these events taking place in your back yard....maybe.....just maybe, you would understand our low tolerance level for judgement by those unable to locate neither the Arrowhead Shopping Mall or the Barry Goldwater Bombing Range on a map.

road kill
07-01-2010, 03:57 PM
Looks like Texas has had enough as well.....


http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=3372

The times they are a changin'



rk

charly_t
07-02-2010, 12:12 AM
Looks like Texas has had enough as well.....


http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=3372

The times they are a changin'



rk

Okies are talking about a new bill since LE busted a new meth lab run by some drug cartel people here in Oklahoma. Seems the operation moved from AZ to Oklahoma recently to try to work without pesky LE checking them out. Okies take a dim view of this :-) Armadillos have moved north and so have some other forms of animal life.

dback
07-02-2010, 08:11 AM
Okies are talking about a new bill since LE busted a new meth lab run by some drug cartel people here in Oklahoma. Seems the operation moved from AZ to Oklahoma recently to try to work without pesky LE checking them out. Okies take a dim view of this :-) Armadillos have moved north and so have some other forms of animal life.

I found this one very amusing since it was only reported in Az and Ok. http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?S=12732983 This wasn't just some drug bust....this was an 'uppitty up' from the Sinaloa crowd. My understanding is that he was under investigation here but was told to relocate by his 'uppers' after the new law was passed. Bunch of 'racist' Okie bastards......arresting O's 'voters in waiting' like that!!!! :-) :-)

Teach folks to boycott us........:shock:

david gibson
07-02-2010, 08:48 AM
Looks like Texas has had enough as well.....


http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=3372

The times they are a changin'



rk

real nice, isnt it? WTF is it going to take to get this a-hole sorry ass excuse of a president to do something??? and no GD amnesty either! he is so political he just wants the votes, and has the nerve to point fingers across the aisle and say they arent working with him on immigration reform. its because your plan sucks you ignorant moron. what other president whines like he does when people dont agree with him?? now we have bullets coming across the border, and this arrogant POS hasnt even come down here or to AZ to see what is going on. he has the gall to say "democrats want it, the american people want it, but the republicans wont play along" read the stinkin polls you jerk, the vast majority support arizona, not you!!

whats it going to take? when the blood flows on this side it is on his stinking kenyan socialist nicotine-stained hands.

road kill
07-02-2010, 08:51 AM
What you southwesterners need is a lecture from Yardley, deppitydawg, dnf or any of our middle of the road indepenents (progressives) on how narrow minded you all are!!

Even though they don't even know where Ponca City is!!!!!




rk

road kill
07-02-2010, 08:56 AM
real nice, isnt it? WTF is it going to take to get this a-hole sorry ass excuse of a president to do something??? and no GD amnesty either! he is so political he just wants the votes, and has the nerve to point fingers across the aisle and say they arent working with him on immigration reform. its because your plan sucks you ignorant moron. what other president whines like he does when people dont agree with him?? now we have bullets coming across the border, and this arrogant POS hasnt even come down here or to AZ to see what is going on. he has the gall to say "democrats want it, the american people want it, but the republicans wont play along" read the stinkin polls you jerk, the vast majority support arizona, not you!!

whats it going to take? when the blood flows on this side it is on his stinking kenyan socialist nicotine-stained hands.

VOTES!!!!!

Or drugs.
(oh, wait that's already happening!!)

Or deaths.
(oh wait, that's already happening!!)

Maybe nothing will shake his ideology!!



rk

BonMallari
07-02-2010, 10:05 AM
real nice, isnt it? WTF is it going to take to get this a-hole sorry ass excuse of a president to do something??? and no GD amnesty either! he is so political he just wants the votes, and has the nerve to point fingers across the aisle and say they arent working with him on immigration reform. its because your plan sucks you ignorant moron. what other president whines like he does when people dont agree with him?? now we have bullets coming across the border, and this arrogant POS hasnt even come down here or to AZ to see what is going on. he has the gall to say "democrats want it, the american people want it, but the republicans wont play along" read the stinkin polls you jerk, the vast majority support arizona, not you!!

whats it going to take? when the blood flows on this side it is on his stinking kenyan socialist nicotine-stained hands.

relax David...you're starting the fireworks early,you're going to blow a gasket..I agree with what you're saying though...just prefer to let the blood pressure meds do their job...

charly_t
07-02-2010, 02:08 PM
I found this one very amusing since it was only reported in Az and Ok. http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?S=12732983 This wasn't just some drug bust....this was an 'uppitty up' from the Sinaloa crowd. My understanding is that he was under investigation here but was told to relocate by his 'uppers' after the new law was passed. Bunch of 'racist' Okie bastards......arresting O's 'voters in waiting' like that!!!! :-) :-)

Teach folks to boycott us........:shock:

LOL, yep boycott may just help AZ. Lots of us like what AZ is doing.
God Bless both AZ and OK.

gmhr1
07-02-2010, 03:01 PM
This is why we need Gov Brewer and our borders secured this is real life we arent sitting looking at the view of the Capital building we live this everday!

massive gun battle between rival drug and migrant trafficking gangs near the U.S. border Thursday left 21 people dead and at least six others wounded, prosecutors said.

The fire fight occurred in a sparsely populated area about 12 miles from the Arizona border, near the city of Nogales, that is considered a prime corridor for immigrant and drug smuggling.

road kill
07-02-2010, 03:04 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/world/americas/03drug.html?_r=1

dback
07-02-2010, 03:45 PM
What you southwesterners need is a lecture from Yardley, deppitydawg, dnf or any of our middle of the road indepenents (progressives) on how narrow minded you all are!!

Even though they don't even know where Ponca City is!!!!!




rk

I'm gonna give Jeff a bye on this one....If I'm not mistaken he stated quite some time back that he hasn't commented on this issue due to the fact he didn't have the first hand knowledge to really take a position.

None the less.....I do understand your point Stan.

road kill
07-02-2010, 04:44 PM
I'm gonna give Jeff a bye on this one....If I'm not mistaken he stated quite some time back that he hasn't commented on this issue due to the fact he didn't have the first hand knowledge to really take a position.

None the less.....I do understand your point Stan.

If you like, I will dig up a couple of his posts on the subject of illegal immigration.
You won't like them.





rk

dback
07-02-2010, 05:00 PM
If you like, I will dig up a couple of his posts on the subject of illegal immigration.
You won't like them.





rk

No need....I'd take your word any day before I'd take that dastardlly ILDO devil from Pennsylvania's word.......seriously....I don't remember :-) :-) :-)....joking Jeff, just joking.

road kill
07-02-2010, 05:03 PM
No need....I'd take your word any day before I'd take that dastardlly ILDO devil from Pennsylvania's word.......seriously....I don't remember :-) :-) :-)....joking Jeff, just joking.


Not saying he is evil........just progressive.
Wait, they are one in the same!





rk:D

gman0046
07-03-2010, 08:33 PM
Franklin, PA is about as far as you can get from the Arizona border yet an expert knows all about it.

dnf777
07-03-2010, 09:40 PM
Franklin, PA is about as far as you can get from the Arizona border yet an expert knows all about it.

What the Sam Hell does Franklin have to do with this thread?

gmhr1
07-04-2010, 08:45 AM
I heard that PA wants to follow Az with the same bill

sinner
07-04-2010, 09:06 AM
Increase the hiring of illegals to a class 2 felony, enforce it if the industry has not made any efforts to ID illegals (case here in Colorado).
No work no income and the number will go down, or is that just part of free enterprise/ capitalism?
Who is profiting from this?
Drugs on the border? Well our efforts over several decades on drug control have been a joke!

dnf777
07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
I heard that PA wants to follow Az with the same bill

Hazelton, Pa is years ahead of Arizona. Google "hazelton immigration" and you'll get an earful. They just didn't have a wacko mayor to grab headlines like Arizona's governess.

Nor_Cal_Angler
07-04-2010, 11:31 AM
Hazelton, Pa is years ahead of Arizona. Google "hazelton immigration" and you'll get an earful. They just didn't have a wacko mayor to grab headlines like Arizona's governess.

Now why is she a wacko? Why is she a headline grabber?

Is it because she is doing what the people of her state told her to do through the democratic process we have called casting a vote.

Isn't it the media that decides what gets to be headline and what doesn't?

Wouldn't it be or shouldn't it be more accurate to say that if she had dent signed that piece of legislation into law, she would be a WACKO??????

Going against the will of the people is what is WACK!!!!!!!!

NCA

gmhr1
07-04-2010, 11:35 AM
Guess some people aren't afraid to stand up for whats right for fear of being called a wacko I have an aunt that lives in Pa and you need a Gov to stand up and say enough is enough! Gov Brewer is only doing what the people of Az are asking her to do.

depittydawg
07-04-2010, 11:39 AM
Guess some people aren't afraid to stand up for whats right for fear of being called a wacko I have an aunt that lives in Pa and you need a Gov to stand up and say enough is enough! Gov Brewer is only doing what the people of Az are asking her to do.

So I take it you're problems are all solved now that your governor who has been in office for years and done nothing, is now making a lot of noise to raise political capital? Cool.

gmhr1
07-04-2010, 11:42 AM
This wont solve all the problems but its a step in the right direction why dont you come down and I will be happy to take you to our old training spot just a few miles from my house, Oh sorry we cant train there any more because its a popular illegal crossing with a rape tree in the middle of it.( Do a google search on that and see what wonderful people these are that we want to keep out)

Nor_Cal_Angler
07-04-2010, 11:46 AM
So I take it you're problems are all solved now that your governor who has been in office for years and done nothing, is now making a lot of noise to raise political capital? Cool.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Just ask Bush.....

Maybe she didn't before because she serves at the will of the people....

And now the people have asked her to serve notice

NCA

Ps. And the problems aren't solved yet because of people with mindsets such as the one you have displayed here on this board. That put up road block after roadblock and hurdle and hurdle. If people actually joined together and with one voice said enough is enough, problems might get solved. Just saying....

depittydawg
07-04-2010, 12:05 PM
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Just ask Bush.....

Maybe she didn't before because she serves at the will of the people....

And now the people have asked her to serve notice

NCA

Ps. And the problems aren't solved yet because of people with mindsets such as the one you have displayed here on this board. That put up road block after roadblock and hurdle and hurdle. If people actually joined together and with one voice said enough is enough, problems might get solved. Just saying....

If it wasn't an election year, and if she wasn't far behind in the polls when she started the Tirade, I would be more inclined to pay attention to her. I despise political opportunists. They make very bad decision makers. If he suits her purpose next year, she will be on the other side of this argument.

M&K's Retrievers
07-04-2010, 12:11 PM
If it wasn't an election year, and if she wasn't far behind in the polls when she started the Tirade, I would be more inclined to pay attention to her. I despise political opportunists. They make very bad decision makers. If he suits her purpose next year, she will be on the other side of this argument.

Ain't it the truth. Kinda sounds like the current POTUS.

depittydawg
07-04-2010, 12:15 PM
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Just ask Bush.....

Maybe she didn't before because she serves at the will of the people....

And now the people have asked her to serve notice

NCA

Ps. And the problems aren't solved yet because of people with mindsets such as the one you have displayed here on this board. That put up road block after roadblock and hurdle and hurdle. If people actually joined together and with one voice said enough is enough, problems might get solved. Just saying....

The fact that the problem isn't solved has nothing to do with me or anyone like me. I strongly support immigration reform. The simple reason it is not solved is because Congress has not taken it up yet. This includes Congress' that go back about 25 years, and the Presidents of the same tenure. And to think the current congress will ignore what is on their plate and switch directions mid year because some governor incites a few citizens is kind of ridiculous. The reality is that the next congress will likely address the issue. Meanwhile, the country, and the congress has some pretty important stuff on their agenda. How about getting excited and pushing for some real financial reform. After all, that is what the Congress is doing right now.

Nor_Cal_Angler
07-04-2010, 06:21 PM
The fact that the problem isn't solved has nothing to do with me or anyone like me. I strongly support immigration reform. The simple reason it is not solved is because Congress has not taken it up yet. This includes Congress' that go back about 25 years, and the Presidents of the same tenure. And to think the current congress will ignore what is on their plate and switch directions mid year because some governor incites a few citizens is kind of ridiculous. The reality is that the next congress will likely address the issue. Meanwhile, the country, and the congress has some pretty important stuff on their agenda. How about getting excited and pushing for some real financial reform. After all, that is what the Congress is doing right now.

love this stuff...."incites a few citizens" and "meanwhile, the country and congress has some pretty important stuff on thier agenda"

depitty..your funny. Have a good fourth


NCA

dnf777
07-04-2010, 06:53 PM
Meanwhile, the country, and the congress has some pretty important stuff on their agenda. How about getting excited and pushing for some real financial reform. After all, that is what the Congress is doing right now.

Haven't you learned by now Deppity? The correct answer, no matter what, is the anti-Obama position! If Obama was pushing immigration reform through congress right now, we'd be hearing, "why isn't he worried about financial reform!!" all over this forum. They won't be happy until a republican is back in power, ruining our country again, and running up huge deficits to support their buddies in the oil and defense industries!

$600 hammer regards...

road kill
07-04-2010, 09:32 PM
The fact that the problem isn't solved has nothing to do with me or anyone like me. I strongly support immigration reform. The simple reason it is not solved is because Congress has not taken it up yet. This includes Congress' that go back about 25 years, and the Presidents of the same tenure. And to think the current congress will ignore what is on their plate and switch directions mid year because some governor incites a few citizens is kind of ridiculous. The reality is that the next congress will likely address the issue. Meanwhile, the country, and the congress has some pretty important stuff on their agenda. How about getting excited and pushing for some real financial reform. After all, that is what the Congress is doing right now.

uhhhh, no.....they are on a vacation!!




rk:D

subroc
07-05-2010, 06:43 AM
Increase the hiring of illegals to a class 2 felony...

sure why not.

make the employer the criminal and dismiss all responsibility from the illegal alien. we live in a bizzaro world.

does anyone see any twisted logic here. we are not going to look for, punish or deport illegal aliens. people that are already breaking our laws. we want more laws to punish business. not just more laws, we want felonies. why not punish the original law breaker?

subroc
07-05-2010, 06:48 AM
...They won't be happy until a republican is back in power, ruining our country again...

did you once say you were a republican?

anyway, isn't the democrat that is in office with both houses of congress doing the same thing now?

road kill
07-05-2010, 07:38 AM
sure why not.

make the employer the criminal and dismiss all responsibility from the illegal alien. we live in a bizzaro world.

does anyone see any twisted logic here. we are not going to look for, punish or deport illegal aliens. people that are already breaking our laws. we want more laws to punish business. not just more laws, we want felonies. why not punish the original law breaker?

Because those are potential votes, we do NOT want to disturb them......



rk:D

dnf777
07-05-2010, 08:32 AM
did you once say you were a republican?

anyway, isn't the democrat that is in office with both houses of congress doing the same thing now?

Yes, and yes.

Both parties are guilty of running up huge deficits. The main difference I can see, is with democrats, the people are the benefactor of deficit spending. With republicans, its the filthy rich and corporations that benefit. With the republicans abandoning their positions on family values, self-reliance, strong military support, and accountability for one's actions....I have no use for them anymore.

road kill
07-05-2010, 08:49 AM
Yes, and yes.

Both parties are guilty of running up huge deficits. The main difference I can see, is with democrats, the people are the benefactor of deficit spending. With republicans, its the filthy rich and corporations that benefit. With the republicans abandoning their positions on family values, self-reliance, strong military support, and accountability for one's actions....I have no use for them anymore.

PUHLEASE!!!!:rolleyes:


rk

depittydawg
07-05-2010, 11:57 AM
did you once say you were a republican?

anyway, isn't the democrat that is in office with both houses of congress doing the same thing now?

I was once a republican. Nothing wrong with being Republican. I was once a Democrat too. And a Libertarian. I've tried them all. None of them get it anymore. But without hesitation, while democrats flounder, confused and unable to act, the actions of Republican Politicians have damaged this country to the core. The democrats are incompetent; but Republicans are down right dangerous whenever they seize control of Washington.

road kill
07-05-2010, 12:04 PM
I was once a republican. Nothing wrong with being Republican. I was once a Democrat too. And a Libertarian. I've tried them all. None of them get it anymore. But without hesitation, while democrats flounder, confused and unable to act, the actions of Republican Politicians have damaged this country to the core. The democrats are incompetent; but Republicans are down right dangerous whenever they seize control of Washington.

Guess you need to by a helmut.
Because danger is on it's way!!!!!:D



rk

paul young
07-05-2010, 12:57 PM
sure why not.

make the employer the criminal and dismiss all responsibility from the illegal alien. we live in a bizzaro world.

does anyone see any twisted logic here. we are not going to look for, punish or deport illegal aliens. people that are already breaking our laws. we want more laws to punish business. not just more laws, we want felonies. why not punish the original law breaker?




THE PEOPLE HIRING THEM ARE NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS?

they're hiring them because they don't have to pay for the things you and i enjoy from being employed, like good wages, social security benefits, retirement funds, workers comp, etc. are these the people you look up to?

if the illegals could not make enough money to live here they wouldn' t stay; THAT'S WHY THEY LEFT WHERE THEY CAME FROM IN THE FIRST PLACE!-Paul

Hew
07-05-2010, 03:21 PM
With republicans, its the filthy rich and corporations that benefit.
Yes, heaven forbid that corporations should flourish. It's much better that labor unions and trial attorneys should benefit under Obama, Pelosi and Reid...because they create so many jobs and really keep our economy hummin'.

And "Filthy rich?" That's interesting. How much wealth must one have to be deemed as "filthy" and thus in possession of too much wealth?

I would think that someone who deposits two doctor's paychecks every Friday and still has plenty of free time to play around on internet chat rooms for four hours every day (when he's not out riding his Gator around his property or petting his hairless cats or training his hunting dog) would be the very last person wanting to gin up class envy. But hey, that's just me. Knock yourself out. One day, when they run out of other peoples' money, the villagers will be coming to your estate.

subroc
07-05-2010, 03:51 PM
Paul

If there wasn't an illegal alien, there wouldn't be anyone to hire them to affect all we hold dear. Start with crime number one, the illegal alien. If there is no stomach to solve the first problem, the second is just waste of time.

M&K's Retrievers
07-05-2010, 04:49 PM
Yes, heaven forbid that corporations should flourish. It's much better that labor unions and trial attorneys should benefit under Obama, Pelosi and Reid...because they create so many jobs and really keep our economy hummin'.

And "Filthy rich?" That's interesting. How much wealth must one have to be deemed as "filthy" and thus in possession of too much wealth?

I would think that someone who deposits two doctor's paychecks every Friday and still has plenty of free time to play around on internet chat rooms for four hours every day (when he's not out riding his Gator around his property or petting his hairless cats or training his hunting dog) would be the very last person wanting to gin up class envy. But hey, that's just me. Knock yourself out. One day, when they run out of other peoples' money, the villagers will be coming to your estate.

Hey! Don't forget sailing in that yacht. :-P

depittydawg
07-05-2010, 05:02 PM
Yes, heaven forbid that corporations should flourish. It's much better that labor unions and trial attorneys should benefit under Obama, Pelosi and Reid...because they create so many jobs and really keep our economy hummin'.

And "Filthy rich?" That's interesting. How much wealth must one have to be deemed as "filthy" and thus in possession of too much wealth?

I

It's not a matter of how much. It's a matter of attitude. Now I'd say the Kennedy's are about as rich a family as America has produced. So is Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. While I would certainly categorize them as 'rich'. They would not fall under the"filty" rich definition. Why, because they use their power and wealth to do some good stuff. Now, on the other hand the "Bush's" and lets say Ken Lay. Those folks are absolutely "filthy" rich. Why, because they do little to nothing with their wealth and power but pursue more wealth and power.

road kill
07-05-2010, 05:04 PM
It's not a matter of how much. It's a matter of attitude. Now I'd say the Kennedy's are about as rich a family as America has produced. So is Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. While I would certainly categorize them as 'rich'. They would not fall under the"filty" rich definition. Why, because they use their power and wealth to do some good stuff. Now, on the other hand the "Bush's" and lets say Ken Lay. Those folks are absolutely "filthy" rich. Why, because they do little to nothing with their wealth and power but pursue more wealth and power.

George Soros??

Theresa Heinz Kerry??



rk:D

depittydawg
07-05-2010, 05:07 PM
George Soros??

Theresa Heinz Kerry??



rk:D

The Heinze Foundation is one of the most giving and respected foundations in the world. At least I have heard that. Before you go searching for a Democratic wealthy family that is "filthy" rich, let me save you the trouble. It is not a partisan ailment. I'm sure they are out there. As far as Kerry, he simply married a rich woman. It's her wealth.

M&K's Retrievers
07-05-2010, 05:08 PM
It's not a matter of how much. It's a matter of attitude. Now I'd say the Kennedy's are about as rich a family as America has produced. So is Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. While I would certainly categorize them as 'rich'. They would not fall under the"filty" rich definition. Why, because they use their power and wealth to do some good stuff. Now, on the other hand the "Bush's" and lets say Ken Lay. Those folks are absolutely "filthy" rich. Why, because they do little to nothing with their wealth and power but pursue more wealth and power.

Good! A worthless opinion. No links required.

depittydawg
07-05-2010, 05:23 PM
Good! A worthless opinion. No links required.

You dumb ass. Don't give me that crap about links. All you are around here is a hot air balloon of unsubstantiated drivel. You think because a few people agree with you, who also have their heads up their rear you don't need to substantiate yourself? You post nothing but opinion and then try to sit back on your high horse and demand if from others. Quit being so lazy. Go do some research of your own.

Captain Mike D
07-05-2010, 05:39 PM
You dumb ass.

Lookin' in the mirror this evening?

BonMallari
07-05-2010, 05:55 PM
The Heinze Foundation is one of the most giving and respected foundations in the world. At least I have heard that. Before you go searching for a Democratic wealthy family that is "filthy" rich, let me save you the trouble. It is not a partisan ailment. I'm sure they are out there. As far as Kerry, he simply married a rich woman. It's her wealth.

wrong , it belonged to her late husband Senator John Heinz one of the heirs to the Heinz ketchup fortune...and he was a REPUBLICAN..(and he is probably turning in his grave)...she was a nobody before she married him and his fortune

and Kenneth Lay passed away about four years ago..and you know nothing about the Bush family fortune...none of us do..wealthy people are benevolent regardless of political party, some choose to advertise that fact some do not...

most on here do not realize that field trialer Steve Bechtel was one of the largest individual contributors to Delta Waterfowl...I dont know what political party he belongs to and frankly I dont care, if it enhances waterfowl and duck habitat, which also opens up dog training grounds for those that still do that instead of arguing here

road kill
07-05-2010, 06:00 PM
You dumb ass. Don't give me that crap about links. All you are around here is a hot air balloon of unsubstantiated drivel. You think because a few people agree with you, who also have their heads up their rear you don't need to substantiate yourself? You post nothing but opinion and then try to sit back on your high horse and demand if from others. Quit being so lazy. Go do some research of your own.


Classy!!!:D


rk

subroc
07-05-2010, 06:27 PM
It's not a matter of how much. It's a matter of attitude. Now I'd say the Kennedy's are about as rich a family as America has produced. So is Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. While I would certainly categorize them as 'rich'. They would not fall under the"filty" rich definition. Why, because they use their power and wealth to do some good stuff. Now, on the other hand the "Bush's" and lets say Ken Lay. Those folks are absolutely "filthy" rich. Why, because they do little to nothing with their wealth and power but pursue more wealth and power.


The arrogance of the left in their belief that they are more generous and their giving is grander in nature than republicans.

Gratuitously grouping former President George W. Bush with ken lay is a bit childish really, even for you. Feel free to look up former President George W. Bush and his wife Laura’s charitable giving and compare it to any of the last several democrats that ran for or won the presidency. You will see, what the rest of us already know, the democrats pale in comparison.

Marvin S
07-05-2010, 06:37 PM
It's not a matter of how much. It's a matter of attitude. Now I'd say the Kennedy's are about as rich a family as America has produced. So is Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. While I would certainly categorize them as 'rich'. They would not fall under the"filty" rich definition. Why, because they use their power and wealth to do some good stuff. Now, on the other hand the "Bush's" and lets say Ken Lay. Those folks are absolutely "filthy" rich. Why, because they do little to nothing with their wealth and power but pursue more wealth and power.

Dippity - this answer is not for you but for those who actually think before they post. When you have to resort to name calling you lost :).

You are probably not old enough to remember Dagwood & Blondie & the Hyannis burg? series, but it was funny :o. The Kennedy's stopped being a class act when old Joe, the bootlegger died.

As for Buffet & Gates, they get to do with their money as they please, no one tells them where it goes. The rest of us who they beleive are not smart enough to recognize needs have our money extorted by the elites, including the Kennedy's, to spend on non value added agendas.

road kill
07-05-2010, 06:39 PM
I am impressed how he cleverly sidestepped the George Soros issue.;-)






rk:D

M&K's Retrievers
07-05-2010, 07:24 PM
I am impressed how he cleverly sidestepped the George Soros issue.;-)






rk:D

I'm sure it was an accident.:D

david gibson
07-05-2010, 08:25 PM
yep.....ole dippity just showed his true colors and all that trailer park hate inside just came pouring out. pure class that fella! glad i took a few days away, he just showed me i have no reason to dig back in.....

M&K's Retrievers
07-06-2010, 12:02 AM
You dumb ass. Don't give me that crap about links. All you are around here is a hot air balloon of unsubstantiated drivel. You think because a few people agree with you, who also have their heads up their rear you don't need to substantiate yourself? You post nothing but opinion and then try to sit back on your high horse and demand if from others. Quit being so lazy. Go do some research of your own.

Gee, Dippityshat, I was paying you a compliment for giving your opinion. Now in this post you are giving it again which is fine.

If you bother to read my posts or threads you will see that I almost always refer to links when stating what I think is fact. My opinions as far as health care/health insurance is concerned is based on a life long career in the health insurance business.

While we are at it, here's another opinion and of course may not be true. You apparently have a gripe with insurance companies because someone you know is not covered for a serious condition. While I feel sorry for the situation, I suspect the individual went without coverage until the condition was diagnosed and then tried to get coverage. Maybe not. Kinda like buying home owners insurance after your house is on fire. They're horror stories in every walk of life. This country and it's people cannot be responsible for everything.

Now, as for calling me a dumb ass, you aren't the first nor I doubt the last but most if not all have more creditability than you. Now, I'm sure you won't mind if I put you on ignore for a while. I'll peek in every now and then to see if you have gotten any smarter.

Mike Whitworth

david gibson
07-06-2010, 07:35 AM
You dumb ass. Don't give me that crap about links. All you are around here is a hot air balloon of unsubstantiated drivel. You think because a few people agree with you, who also have their heads up their rear you don't need to substantiate yourself? You post nothing but opinion and then try to sit back on your high horse and demand if from others. Quit being so lazy. Go do some research of your own.

the meltdown continues....

its ok dont-know-dippity-schist - i can only imagine how hard it is on you guys seeing your messiah wilt like an an unwatered rose in iraq. all that hope, all that hype, and every day we just see more and more of his BS for just that.

kinda like cheering for the houston astros.......

gman0046
07-06-2010, 12:00 PM
I seriously doubt Dippity even knows who George Soro's is.

sinner
07-06-2010, 04:24 PM
THE PEOPLE HIRING THEM ARE NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS?

they're hiring them because they don't have to pay for the things you and i enjoy from being employed, like good wages, social security benefits, retirement funds, workers comp, etc. are these the people you look up to?

if the illegals could not make enough money to live here they wouldn' t stay; THAT'S WHY THEY LEFT WHERE THEY CAME FROM IN THE FIRST PLACE!-Paul

Or here is another suggestion: If an illegal:rolleyes: is ID working for your company "you" and the company (stock holders) pay for the illegal and family's health care, education, SSTax, auto insurance, income taxes at the current market price rather than a felony. I am willing to bet the illegals go down!

depittydawg
07-07-2010, 10:45 AM
You apparently have a gripe with insurance companies because someone you know is not covered for a serious condition. While I feel sorry for the situation, I suspect the individual went without coverage until the condition was diagnosed and then tried to get coverage. Maybe not. Kinda like buying home owners insurance after your house is on fire. They're horror stories in every walk of life. This country and it's people cannot be responsible for everything.
Mike Whitworth

Although I grow weary of this argument and this site, I will respond to this post because it contains character allegations and slanderous remarks that are unsubstantiated, and in fact are lies.
First of all, yes, I do have a nephew who needs a liver and the insurance company, tried to deny the half million dollar operation. After paying some legal fees the family has gotten a commitment from the insurer to pay half of the fee. This 18 year old boy has been covered by his parents health insurance policy, which they pay for out of their business, since he was born. So as you can see, you are once again spreading false information about some else, without regard to the factual basis of your information.
As for your statement that is have a "gripe" with insurance companies because I posted a well known fact that Private Health Insurance cost 20- 30 percent more to administer than Medicare, once more in your zeal to personalize this you miss the boat. I care nothing good or bad re: Health Insurance companies. I simply stated a known fact, that has been repeated and published many times over the last several years by many sources.

Next time you want to publish some dirt on me, just ask, I'll probably give you the good stuff and you won't have to make anymore up. Good luck to you in the future Michael.

david gibson
07-07-2010, 11:21 AM
Although I grow weary of this argument and this site, I will respond to this post because it contains character allegations and slanderous remarks that are unsubstantiated, and in fact are lies.
First of all, yes, I do have a nephew who needs a liver and the insurance company, tried to deny the half million dollar operation. After paying some legal fees the family has gotten a commitment from the insurer to pay half of the fee. This 18 year old boy has been covered by his parents health insurance policy, which they pay for out of their business, since he was born. So as you can see, you are once again spreading false information about some else, without regard to the factual basis of your information.
As for your statement that is have a "gripe" with insurance companies because I posted a well known fact that Private Health Insurance cost 20- 30 percent more to administer than Medicare, once more in your zeal to personalize this you miss the boat. I care nothing good or bad re: Health Insurance companies. I simply stated a known fact, that has been repeated and published many times over the last several years by many sources.

Next time you want to publish some dirt on me, just ask, I'll probably give you the good stuff and you won't have to make anymore up. Good luck to you in the future Michael.

as usual, you only read what you want to read in a comment.

"suspect the individual went without coverage until the condition was diagnosed and then tried to get coverage. Maybe not. "

he left open the option he was mistaken, therefor not slanderous or a lie, merely a supposition.

ducknwork
07-07-2010, 11:27 AM
I posted a well known fact that Private Health Insurance cost 20- 30 percent more to administer than Medicare,


Has it ever crossed your mind that private insurance may cost more because doctors have to make up the money they are losing by seeing medicare patients? Kinda like the hospital raising everyone's rates because there are people that have to receive care as required by law, regardless of ability to pay...

Naaaaaww....that makes too much sense, doesn't it?

M&K's Retrievers
07-07-2010, 04:07 PM
Although I grow weary of this argument and this site, I will respond to this post because it contains character allegations and slanderous remarks that are unsubstantiated, and in fact are lies.
First of all, yes, I do have a nephew who needs a liver and the insurance company, tried to deny the half million dollar operation. After paying some legal fees the family has gotten a commitment from the insurer to pay half of the fee. This 18 year old boy has been covered by his parents health insurance policy, which they pay for out of their business, since he was born. So as you can see, you are once again spreading false information about some else, without regard to the factual basis of your information.
As for your statement that is have a "gripe" with insurance companies because I posted a well known fact that Private Health Insurance cost 20- 30 percent more to administer than Medicare, once more in your zeal to personalize this you miss the boat. I care nothing good or bad re: Health Insurance companies. I simply stated a known fact, that has been repeated and published many times over the last several years by many sources.

Next time you want to publish some dirt on me, just ask, I'll probably give you the good stuff and you won't have to make anymore up. Good luck to you in the future Michael.

First, I didn't publish any dirt on you. I believe you did that yourself in another post.

On the surface what you describe doesn't sound right. Not denying that it happened just curious about some of the facts. Is this a Group Insurance Policy or an Individual Policy? What was the reason given for declining coverage? How long was the policy in force? Did they complain to the state insurance department? Did their agent help them with this problem? Is the insurance company contending that the condition was self inflicted due to drug abuse? Did the applicant apply for coverage by submitting answers to health questions and if so was this or any other condition excluded as a condition of issuing coverage?. Was this a limited benefit policy issued by Dewey Screwem & Howe (yes there are flaky polices out there)? PM me if you had rather not drag this through the streets.

david gibson
07-07-2010, 04:20 PM
Has it ever crossed your mind that private insurance may cost more because doctors have to make up the money they are losing by seeing medicare patients? Kinda like the hospital raising everyone's rates because there are people that have to receive care as required by law, regardless of ability to pay...

Naaaaaww....that makes too much sense, doesn't it?

touche.....

sinner
07-07-2010, 09:32 PM
Has it ever crossed your mind that private insurance may cost more because doctors have to make up the money they are losing by seeing medicare patients? Kinda like the hospital raising everyone's rates because there are people that have to receive care as required by law, regardless of ability to pay...

Naaaaaww....that makes too much sense, doesn't it?

Because I work in the health care field the above quote is based on rumor and myth. Your statement is called "cost shifting". I have worked all sides of the issues" provider, patient, hospital management, and private industry that was self insured and self managed and self funded.

Let me give you a couple of examples reimbursement our clinic: We no longer accept Atena & United Health Care because they would only pay 18.75 % of what we have to charge to make 4 percent profit.
Most health care providers contract with insurance companies for various amounts of reimbursement. Medicare rates paid in a given area greatly influence these contracts. Medicare is our most reliable payer and the quickest payer, the highest payer not always but the insurance industry certain uses those rates when we negotiate contracts.

My personal MD will leave his current group and join MDVIP. He will take only 600 patients and the contract will be with him for $125/month/person(not accepting any insurance) for internal medicine care. I will still have to carry an another insurance to cover other specialties. Check MDVIP out on the WEB.

dnf777
07-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Has it ever crossed your mind that private insurance may cost more because doctors have to make up the money they are losing by seeing medicare patients? Kinda like the hospital raising everyone's rates because there are people that have to receive care as required by law, regardless of ability to pay...

Naaaaaww....that makes too much sense, doesn't it?

You think insurance companies will say, gee, medicare is screwing that doc....let's give him a little extra to help out???

As for the hospitals, that definately happens, as they have much more ability to set their prices. That's also why they lobby heavily to limit the construction of physician-owned surgery centers. THAT's a whole 'nother thread!

ducknwork
07-08-2010, 06:12 AM
You think insurance companies will say, gee, medicare is screwing that doc....let's give him a little extra to help out???

As for the hospitals, that definately happens, as they have much more ability to set their prices. That's also why they lobby heavily to limit the construction of physician-owned surgery centers. THAT's a whole 'nother thread!

No, I don't think that the insurance companies are that willing to cover the cost, but I do find it a bit strange that the ibuprofens on my wife's hospital bill cost close to $10 each. The hospital surely must be overcharging me for them to help cover the cost of ibuprofens that other people didn't pay for, because I can go get a whole bottle of them for less than that! Not to mention there are things that are listed on her detailed bill 5 or 6 times that she only had one of. I guess the uninsured illegal in the ER used the other four, right?

Are you telling me that rates could not be lowered (and your profit stay the same) for everyone if you weren't receiving the screwing you previously described from medicare? Or that my hospital bill would not be at least a few dollars lower if they didn't have to make up for the people that they have to treat regardless of ability to pay?

dnf777
07-08-2010, 07:07 AM
Are you telling me that rates could not be lowered (and your profit stay the same) for everyone if you weren't receiving the screwing you previously described from medicare? Or that my hospital bill would not be at least a few dollars lower if they didn't have to make up for the people that they have to treat regardless of ability to pay?

Not all Duck, I agree with you on the hospital gouging. In some areas I'm sure its due to illegals, in others its the Americans without insurance that drives the gouging of paying customers.

Again, I agree with you on the $10 motrin--but to be totally fair...if you had to staff your house with a nurse to bring that motrin to you, and purchase the fancy bed and monitors that the gov REQUIRES of hospitals, all the sudden that motrin you take at home becomes much more expensive. Still gouging, though, no doubt! Just don't mount an alcohol based hand-cleaner to your bedroom wall!!

david gibson
07-08-2010, 07:54 AM
No, I don't think that the insurance companies are that willing to cover the cost, but I do find it a bit strange that the ibuprofens on my wife's hospital bill cost close to $10 each. The hospital surely must be overcharging me for them to help cover the cost of ibuprofens that other people didn't pay for, because I can go get a whole bottle of them for less than that! Not to mention there are things that are listed on her detailed bill 5 or 6 times that she only had one of. I guess the uninsured illegal in the ER used the other four, right?

Are you telling me that rates could not be lowered (and your profit stay the same) for everyone if you weren't receiving the screwing you previously described from medicare? Or that my hospital bill would not be at least a few dollars lower if they didn't have to make up for the people that they have to treat regardless of ability to pay?

dont worry, its all going to be just peachy with the health care plan!

sinner
07-08-2010, 08:00 AM
Not all Duck, I agree with you on the hospital gouging. In some areas I'm sure its due to illegals, in others its the Americans without insurance that drives the gouging of paying customers.

Again, I agree with you on the $10 motrin--but to be totally fair...if you had to staff your house with a nurse to bring that motrin to you, and purchase the fancy bed and monitors that the gov REQUIRES of hospitals, all the sudden that motrin you take at home becomes much more expensive. Still gouging, though, no doubt! Just don't mount an alcohol based hand-cleaner to your bedroom wall!!

It has been interesting watching the two of you discuss this issue!
as for standards for hospitals please review information @ www.jointcommission.org/

All most all hospitals are required to see you regardless of your ability to pay. ie. uninsured, drug users without insurance, under-insured, illegals. auto accident victims, and all the rest of us (even the wealthy)

Most hospitals include bad debits, and charity care against their profit for taxable incomes. (Most industries do the same even the non profits)
If you don't have insurance you will be billed at the hospital set determined rate which will be very high. You can either pay it or negotiate with the provider. Yes providers cost shift form those that can't to those that can pay.

As for the ability of the physicians power to negotiate with insurance companies your statement is not accurate. Group practices existed for that purpose and they do have the ability to not accept the contracts as we have done with a couple (see my example of ).

I deplore the misinformation that exists in our public about health care and I would suggest you review such countries plans as Germany and learn the cost setting structure of Canada. Are they better than ours in some cases yes and some no! Stop reacting to misinformation and scare tactics.

Our system needs change and it will come down to what we as a society determine will fit for us.

Criticize the present plan and I share many of your concerns, but change it must. Just go to any field trial look at the age of the participants, their girths, (smoking is down), joint replacements, bypasses, and other chronic hidden conditions.
I have cost benefit data that was accurate for 13 years of an industry based wellness and health care program that showed and average return on investment ranging for $1:$2.26 and 1$:$8.26.
The company was self insured, self management of their health insurance and self funded.
We can do better than we are but it had to start some place and those of us in health care were not getting it done. We must come together on this issue ans soon!

ducknwork
07-08-2010, 08:47 AM
Not all Duck, I agree with you on the hospital gouging. In some areas I'm sure its due to illegals, in others its the Americans without insurance that drives the gouging of paying customers.

Again, I agree with you on the $10 motrin--but to be totally fair...if you had to staff your house with a nurse to bring that motrin to you, and purchase the fancy bed and monitors that the gov REQUIRES of hospitals, all the sudden that motrin you take at home becomes much more expensive. Still gouging, though, no doubt! Just don't mount an alcohol based hand-cleaner to your bedroom wall!!

I would say that you have a good point if I didn't have a section on her bill that charged me for 'Room' and 'Nursing'. That makes it seem to me that I just paid $10 for one, count em, ONE pill. In all reality, I probably paid for many more than one pill, it's just that someone other than my wife took them.

dnf777
07-08-2010, 08:54 AM
I would say that you have a good point if I didn't have a section on her bill that charged me for 'Room' and 'Nursing'. That makes it seem to me that I just paid $10 for one, count em, ONE pill. In all reality, I probably paid for many more than one pill, it's just that someone other than my wife took them.

When you pay $12 for a 50 cent plate of spaghetti in a restaurant, does you check have "waiter service" and "ambience" on it? No, its understood.

I think we can narrow it down to basically agreeing that whatever the cause....WE GOT SCREWED!! :-x

ducknwork
07-08-2010, 09:06 AM
When you pay $12 for a 50 cent plate of spaghetti in a restaurant, does you check have "waiter service" and "ambience" on it? No, its understood.

I think we can narrow it down to basically agreeing that whatever the cause....WE GOT SCREWED!! :-x

And the cause of the screwing is....

drumroll please.......................


We are paying for other people who cannot (or will not) pay for themselves! I'm not saying that they shouldn't receive care at all, but it just doesn't seem right that we who have the ability to pay for ourselves have to pay extra for them.


Besides, I'm not much of a spaghetti guy anyway. I prefer baked ziti and the best here in town is only $7.:D

ducknwork
07-08-2010, 10:44 AM
When you pay $12 for a 50 cent plate of spaghetti in a restaurant, does you check have "waiter service" and "ambience" on it? No, its understood.

I think we can narrow it down to basically agreeing that whatever the cause....WE GOT SCREWED!! :-x

After thinking about this again, I think you misunderstood my post. On her bill, we were charged $10 for a pill. We were also charged seperately for her room and her nursing care. Thus, your spaghetti example doesn't make sense here. So we really did pay that much. Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

dnf777
07-08-2010, 12:02 PM
Okay, ya got me. All I can offer is that they charge that much because they know they CAN, and that folk like you will pay!

I agree with you. I don't want to see folks turned away from care either, but I don't want to see ambulances bypassing Mexican hospitals in Juarez on their way to Thomason hospital in El Paso!

BonMallari
07-08-2010, 01:32 PM
When you pay $12 for a 50 cent plate of spaghetti in a restaurant, does you check have "waiter service" and "ambience" on it? No, its understood.

I think we can narrow it down to basically agreeing that whatever the cause....WE GOT SCREWED!! :-x

You must not have dined at the Bellagio recently or ordered room service from there....there is a service charge of 18%...nothing is implied :p:p

Marvin S
07-08-2010, 01:40 PM
You must not have dined at the Bellagio recently or ordered room service from there....there is a service charge of 18%...nothing is implied :p:p

How is the money divvied up? It's sort of like working on commission :).

dnf777
07-08-2010, 02:09 PM
You must not have dined at the Bellagio recently or ordered room service from there....there is a service charge of 18%...nothing is implied :p:p

Last time I was there I remember exactly....it was the day Dale Earnhardt was killed. My wife-to-be and I snuck away from Ft. Irwin to spend a day in Vegas. didn't gamble a dime, but sat in the Bellagio and had a glass of wine and a cheese plate. Didn't have a pot to piss in then, so that was as extravagent as it got!

road kill
07-08-2010, 02:14 PM
Last time I was there I remember exactly....it was the day Dale Earnhardt was killed. My wife-to-be and I snuck away from Ft. Irwin to spend a day in Vegas. didn't gamble a dime, but sat in the Bellagio and had a glass of wine and a cheese plate. Didn't have a pot to piss in then, so that was as extravagent as it got!
What did that run, $250???



stan b

dnf777
07-08-2010, 02:25 PM
What did that run, $250???



stan b

Naw...it came in under $40, but the did make us leave through the back door.

Sad aside though, there was an Army captain who snuck away at almost the same time, and the bozo had a gambling problem. He ended up calling from the casino security booth to his commander for a ride back to base. He lost EVERYTHING, spent out his credit cards, and lost his bus fare home! That's sick. I heard he lost his bars over that. shouldn't have called him a bozo, but he did kind of step on his own.