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Roger Perry
07-02-2010, 11:13 AM
Looks like the Republicans only care about big business and not about the back bone of America -- the working people.


More than 1.3 million laid-off workers won’t get theirunemployment benefits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits) reinstated before Congress goes on a weeklong vacation for Independence Day.
An additional 200,000 people who have been without a job for at least six months stand to lose their benefits each week, unless Congress acts.
For the third time in as many weeks, Republicans in the Senate successfully filibustered a bill Wednesday night to continue providing unemployment checks to people who been laid off for long stretches. The House is slated to vote on a similar measure Thursday, though the Senate’s action renders the vote a futile gesture as Congress prepares to depart Washington for its holiday recess.
A little more than 1.3 million people have already lost benefits since the last extension ran out at the end of May.
“It is beyond disappointing that Republicans continue to stand almost lockstep against assistance for out-of-work Americans,” said Senate Majority LeaderHarry Reid (http://reid.senate.gov/), D-Nev.

scott furbeck
07-02-2010, 11:29 AM
I don't know about the statment "that they don't care." The deficit is a big deal, people are finally waking up to that. It's not like the money is there. The question is do you want to borrow from your children to pay for extended unemployment benefits or not.

Do we want to borrow money to fight wars ? ...... I'm really not sure it is a good idea in the long run either.

Hew
07-02-2010, 11:31 AM
Your messiah has the economy humming along so well I'd think you'd want 6 month unemployment welfare receipients out working in all the jobs Obama has created instead of running up our deficit that the backbone of America will have to pay for in the future. Why do you Democrats hate us working people, Rog?

bobbyb
07-02-2010, 11:37 AM
Excuse please, not to smart, but did'nt i hear princess pelosi say "the more unemployed checks we send out the better chances of somebody going get a job" or something of that nature ?
BobbyB
cajun

dnf777
07-02-2010, 11:42 AM
Excuse please, not to smart, but did'nt i hear princess pelosi say "the more unemployed checks we send out the better chances of somebody going get a job" or something of that nature ?
BobbyB
cajun

Pretty stupid. Rivals Bohner's comments to the effect, 'we don't need a moratorium on drilling, just to stop drilling until we figure out what happened.'

I for one would never accuse politicians of being intelligent!

Illinois Bob
07-02-2010, 11:50 AM
Looks like the Republicans only care about big business and not about the back bone of America -- the working people.
.


There are thousands of good people losing their jobs right now directly because of Obama.
With him trying to cancell NASAs Constellation program ,contractor lay offs have already started.I don't think he cares that much about working people either.

Franco
07-02-2010, 11:55 AM
Nothing more then the Democrats trying to buy votes with tax payer money!

Roger Perry
07-02-2010, 11:58 AM
Your messiah has the economy humming along so well I'd think you'd want 6 month unemployment welfare receipients out working in all the jobs Obama has created instead of running up our deficit that the backbone of America will have to pay for in the future. Why do you Democrats hate us working people, Rog?


It is my understanding that those receiving unemployment benefits have to submit proof that they are looking for employment when collecting unemployment. If the workers no longer are able to collect unemployment their last hope would be the welfare line.

Just because I am no longer a republican party member does not make me a democrat, and I do not hate the working people because I am one myself. My voter regristration card says I am an independent. I vote for whoever I believe can do the best job while in office.

dnf777
07-02-2010, 11:59 AM
There are thousands of good people losing their jobs right now directly because of Obama.
With him trying to cancell NASAs Constellation program ,contractor lay offs have already started.I don't think he cares that much about working people either.

But wait. Weren't you the same folks crying under Clinton that the gov't should NOT be in the business of being a 'jobs program' for Americans? In fact, more recently I've heard cries that gov't (Obama) is spending way too much on non-essential spending programs! What gives? Should he spend money to provide gov't jobs or not? Can't have it both ways!!

Roger Perry
07-02-2010, 12:10 PM
I don't know about the statment "that they don't care." The deficit is a big deal, people are finally waking up to that. It's not like the money is there. The question is do you want to borrow from your children to pay for extended unemployment benefits or not.

Do we want to borrow money to fight wars ? ...... I'm really not sure it is a good idea in the long run either.

House passes massive war funding bill

I guess we do.

The weather service is predicting an active hurricane season. Where will the money come from when hurricanes hit the U.S. mainland? Where will the money come from if a mega earth quake strikes in California? And, where will the money come from if a F5 tornado wipes out a whole city in tornado alley?

Roger Perry
07-02-2010, 12:15 PM
Nothing more then the Democrats trying to buy votes with tax payer money!

If you think that is true now, wait until July 1012 when Obama starts troop withdrawl in Afghanistan, or when Obama grants aminsty to 13 million illeagle immigrants (13 million more democrats)

scott furbeck
07-02-2010, 12:23 PM
As far as the war funding bill:

For now we do, I'm not sure if being the world's police is helping the situation anywhere and actually weakening us as a country. I believe that 20 some odd % of our GDP is going into the military... are we getting a lot of bang for the buck there or not. I'm not a bleeding heart, but a month ago.. I read Eisenhour's(sp) speach about the military-industrial complex he wrote in the 1950's. It's stunningly accurate today.. I would encourage you all to read it. Ike knew the dangers and benefits of military action and subsequent militarization of our economy.

Honestly, I don't know if we will make any difference in Afghanistan. It's a tribal culture that changes allegiances at a drop of a hat. There are folks there that profit from chaos and will keep things that way. Same difference in most of Africa. Too bad that we gave all those weapons to them to beat the soviets. We make a regional conflict bigger than it should be.

Franco
07-02-2010, 01:55 PM
It is my understanding that those receiving unemployment benefits have to submit proof that they are looking for employment when collecting unemployment. If the workers no longer are able to collect unemployment their last hope would be the welfare line.

Just because I am no longer a republican party member does not make me a democrat, and I do not hate the working people because I am one myself. My voter regristration card says I am an independent. I vote for whoever I believe can do the best job while in office.

Only if they haven't worked in the past. If they have been working, they would qualify for SS unemployment. If they have already depleted it, then they need to find another line of work

In regards to Iraq and Afganistan, why not withdraw now? What will change in two years? Doesn't matter if we leave now, in two years or 200 years, they will revert back to thier primal way of life!

scott furbeck
07-02-2010, 02:15 PM
In regards to Iraq and Afganistan, why not withdraw now? What will change in two years? Doesn't matter if we leave now, in two years or 200 years, they will revert back to thier primal way of life![/QUOTE]

I think we should seriously consider leaving. Our military is not a giant police force, their hands are tied. It's not like Afghanistan is ever going to be a US friendly democracy. You cannot fix a place so fundamentally corrupt.

Franco
07-02-2010, 02:21 PM
I think we should seriously consider leaving. Our military is not a giant police force, their hands are tied. It's not like Afghanistan is ever going to be a US friendly democracy. You cannot fix a place so fundamentally corrupt.



I've been saying the same thing since 2002 and since 2003 here on RTF.

I was in full support of securing the WMD's. And, 100% against any naive aspiration for 'nation building".

A classic example of, " politicians are no friends of the military". It is foolish to think we can remake these people in our own political image.

We might as well go ahead and get ready for over a million Political Refugees coming to the USA from these two areas.

BonMallari
07-02-2010, 03:40 PM
If you think that is true now, wait until July 1012 when Obama starts troop withdrawl in Afghanistan, or when Obama grants aminsty to 13 million illeagle immigrants (13 million more democrats)

first you assume that it will happen and that they will automatically become Dems and vote...if that were to happen based on the trend in todays economy,those newly naturalized individuals would be so busy using all the new found resources opened to them..and you would not only have trouble seeing your primary care physician down in south Florida, that would probably be the perverbial straw that breaks the camel's back and everything short of and possibly including civil war would break out

dixidawg
07-02-2010, 04:22 PM
In regards to Iraq and Afganistan, why not withdraw now? What will change in two years? Doesn't matter if we leave now, in two years or 200 years, they will revert back to thier primal way of life!

I think we should seriously consider leaving. Our military is not a giant police force, their hands are tied. It's not like Afghanistan is ever going to be a US friendly democracy. You cannot fix a place so fundamentally corrupt.[/quote]

You referring to Afghanistan or Washington? :-)

scott furbeck
07-02-2010, 05:44 PM
I have friends from around the world, being that I went to graduate school in agriculture. The US still is relatively speaking, a place where you can get ahead if you try hard. I have Christian friends from Venesuella (sp) and Muslim friends from Morocco. Both are becoming (or have become) citizens. I'm so proud of them. They both told me the same two things.

1) It's easier to be in the US illegally than it is legally.
2) You have NO idea what political corruption is all about (And I'm from Illinois !)

dnf777
07-02-2010, 06:15 PM
I think we should seriously consider leaving. Our military is not a giant police force, their hands are tied. It's not like Afghanistan is ever going to be a US friendly democracy. You cannot fix a place so fundamentally corrupt.

You referring to Afghanistan or Washington? :-)[/QUOTE]

Good question! :D

Really though, if we show Afghans the "good life", and don't interfere and bomb them into hating us, I would not be surprised at all to see them come to our side. People everywhere prefer to raise their children in safety and opportunity. We hear of the kooks, but then again, that's probably all they hear of us, too!

Captain Mike D
07-02-2010, 06:32 PM
Looks like the Republicans only care about big business and not about the back bone of America -- the working people.


More than 1.3 million laid-off workers won’t get theirunemployment benefits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits) reinstated before Congress goes on a weeklong vacation for Independence Day.
An additional 200,000 people who have been without a job for at least six months stand to lose their benefits each week, unless Congress acts.
For the third time in as many weeks, Republicans in the Senate successfully filibustered a bill Wednesday night to continue providing unemployment checks to people who been laid off for long stretches. The House is slated to vote on a similar measure Thursday, though the Senate’s action renders the vote a futile gesture as Congress prepares to depart Washington for its holiday recess.
A little more than 1.3 million people have already lost benefits since the last extension ran out at the end of May.
“It is beyond disappointing that Republicans continue to stand almost lockstep against assistance for out-of-work Americans,” said Senate Majority LeaderHarry Reid (http://reid.senate.gov/), D-Nev.

Sorry Roger, but you will get NO SYMPATHY from me. I have worked 2 jobs for over 15 years- one as self employed and the other on commission.
Both took a huge long lasting hit during this recession.

Neither classification would allow me to get unemployment for 1 week or 104 weeks even if I had tried. There are many private sector charities that could help you, or you could try to get a job even if it is at a day labor position that will feed your family. Be self reliant, because the government is not here for you, only for their own power!

YOUR PRESIDENT wants it this way, Rely on the government for your existence. Or, you could buy a pickup truck and haul stuff or carry metal to be recycled, or even buy a truck and a trailer and a couple of mowers and you may even steal a job from an illegal if you price yourself cheap enough. The grass grows almost year around in FL

Captain Mike D
07-02-2010, 06:47 PM
But wait. Weren't you the same folks crying under Clinton that the gov't should NOT be in the business of being a 'jobs program' for Americans? In fact, more recently I've heard cries that gov't (Obama) is spending way too much on non-essential spending programs! What gives? Should he spend money to provide gov't jobs or not? Can't have it both ways!!

Doc,
(Notice the respect I am giving you here), NASA is probably the only program in the entire history of the country that has produced a great deal of innovation and technology, for private sector, and both local, state and the fed government.

I would be willing to bet that some of the instuments or that you use in your practice started in the NASA program.

DId you know NASA hosts a couple of technology fairs a year to help small business get a foothold?

dnf777
07-02-2010, 06:55 PM
Doc,
(Notice the respect I am giving you here), NASA is probably the only program in the entire history of the country that has produced a great deal of innovation and technology, for private sector, and both local, state and the fed government.

I would be willing to bet that some of the instuments or that you use in your practice started in the NASA program.

DId you know NASA hosts a couple of technology fairs a year to help small business get a foothold?

Don't read me wrong--I LOVE NASA! Been a pilot since I was 16, and was in the air over east Texas when Challenger was lost. But my comment wasn't about NASA and its merits. Its about people complaining about gov't spending, and jobs programs, then turning around and attacking Obama about doing just the opposite! More glaring inconsistency and hypocrisy. Not you personally, but the multitude of righties who's raison d'etre is to attack Obama and hoping he fails at every turn.

Marvin S
07-02-2010, 07:06 PM
Don't read me wrong--I LOVE NASA! Been a pilot since I was 16, and was in the air over east Texas when Challenger was lost. But my comment wasn't about NASA and its merits. Its about people complaining about gov't spending, and jobs programs, then turning around and attacking Obama about doing just the opposite! More glaring inconsistency and hypocrisy. Not you personally, but the multitude of righties who's raison d'etre is to attack Obama and hoping he fails at every turn.

Like everything it's the quality & potential for improving life that counts - if you can't differentiate, then it is small wonder you don't get what people are complaining about ;-). The key requirement is adding value :o.

Captain Mike D
07-02-2010, 07:12 PM
House passes massive war funding bill

I guess we do.

The weather service is predicting an active hurricane season. Where will the money come from when hurricanes hit the U.S. mainland? Where will the money come from if a mega earth quake strikes in California? And, where will the money come from if a F5 tornado wipes out a whole city in tornado alley?

Roger,

Your insurance company will pay for your house if you keep your policy current. You should suffer no physical damage to yourself as you will have a chance to evacuate since hurricanes are able to be tracked for several days and you will have ample warning to evacuate. I am
not an insurance salesman but if you need help I could reccomend a good company.
Likewise if you need to evacuate just PM me and I'll help you with a route out of your current location. I will even take in your dogs till you are ready to head back south!! That is what real people do in the US, we don't watch a fellow man go under if we can possibly help. WTF is so hard about that!!!

Although tornadoes and quakes are a bit different the same rules would apply, insurance should cover the individual, the feds should step in to help with infrastructure, that is all.
Just where in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Declaration of Independence does it say that the Government is responsible for taking care of you.
Every time I have ever read it I came away with the impression that the founders wanted a very limited role of government in your life so you could take care of yourself and be whatever you wanted to be

scott furbeck
07-02-2010, 07:34 PM
Aren't you taking Roger out of context. I posed that spening money in Afghanistan wasn't that good of a bang for our buck... He posted the reply that the Govt aready decide to spend a few billion more. I think our founding fathers would be a bit perplexed that we are in a war half way across the world.

If a huge natural disaster were to hit, it's true that individual property and posessions would be insured... but what about the public infrastructure like Roads, Public Schools, Prisons... there would have to be some sort of public cash outlay. I am really curious right now about the Gulf of Mexico Oil situation. I really doubt that BP is going to foot the bill to pay all of the cleanup and secondary damages....

Leddyman
07-02-2010, 08:41 PM
Aren't you taking Roger out of context. I posed that spening money in Afghanistan wasn't that good of a bang for our buck... He posted the reply that the Govt aready decide to spend a few billion more. I think our founding fathers would be a bit perplexed that we are in a war half way across the world.

If a huge natural disaster were to hit, it's true that individual property and posessions would be insured... but what about the public infrastructure like Roads, Public Schools, Prisons... there would have to be some sort of public cash outlay. I am really curious right now about the Gulf of Mexico Oil situation. I really doubt that BP is going to foot the bill to pay all of the cleanup and secondary damages....

I think our founding fathers would completely understand that we were attacked. Remember that? That that ideology still threatens our country.

What would perplex the founders would be the unwillingness to kill enough people or break enough stuff to make them want to stop. We could be done and out of there by now. We do not posses the will to win.

Gerry Clinchy
07-02-2010, 08:56 PM
More glaring inconsistency and hypocrisy.

Not necesarily inconsistent or hypocritical to believe some things are worth spending on and some are not. All of us "budget" by prioritizing. So, if someone believes NASA is worth spending on, but extending unemployment benefits is not ... as Capt Mike does, they may have reasons for their prioritization ... as Capt Mike explained his.


What would perplex the founders would be the unwillingness to kill enough people or break enough stuff to make them want to stop.

Won't argue the issue of whether there is a "will to win" in either Iraq or A'stan ... but I have been impressed with "revisiting" Revolutionary history on the History Channel. I never truly realized how close the Colonists were on more than one occasion to losing the war. The situation at the time of Washington's Xmas Eve crossing of the Delaware was pretty desperate. England must have felt pretty frustrated with the perseverence of the Colonists.

dnf777
07-02-2010, 10:06 PM
Not necesarily inconsistent or hypocritical to believe some things are worth spending on and some are not. All of us "budget" by prioritizing. So, if someone believes NASA is worth spending on, but extending unemployment benefits is not ... as Capt Mike does, they may have reasons for their prioritization ... as Capt Mike explained his.


I see your point, but I guess its just the free-market capitalist in me saying if something is worth inventing, a profit-driven entrepreneur/inventor will do so. We don't need the Goobermint to do it for us and take care of us!

After all, Obama can't even stop a leaking well 5000' under the sea, how will he fly a spaceship to Mars?

kb27_99
07-02-2010, 11:10 PM
House passes massive war funding bill


The weather service is predicting an active hurricane season. Where will the money come from when hurricanes hit the U.S. mainland? Where will the money come from if a mega earth quake strikes in California? And, where will the money come from if a F5 tornado wipes out a whole city in tornado alley?


Roger,

Are you referring to rebuilding city info structure or citizens personal assets?

Gerry Clinchy
07-03-2010, 12:07 AM
I see your point, but I guess its just the free-market capitalist in me saying if something is worth inventing, a profit-driven entrepreneur/inventor will do so. We don't need the Goobermint to do it for us and take care of us!

I think that the things that came as "fall-out" from NASA's research were things that would have been a stretch of the imagination at the time they evolved into useful items. It might simply have taken longer before someone would have followed that path of research ... perhaps and "acceleration" of the process of developing those ideas.

WRT unemployment benefits, evidently almost no one read the article about the issue of jobs available, but a shortage of workers with the skills needed for those jobs.

Extending unemployment benefits do not "create" wealth the way innovation does. In fact, extension of such benefits might discourage motivation for re-training to a new skill set.

It really seems a shame that individuals on unemployment cannot be utilized for tasks that go un-done for lack of funding due to labor contracts. Do we remember the issue of the SEIU raising a stink about the Eagle Scout that chose his Eagle project to restore an overgrown nature path in a local park? The city didn't have funds to pay union workers to do that task, yet the Scout was almost prevented from doing this due to union objection. Heck, if union workers would never get the job, why not let it get done? Why can't people collecting welfare be put to work, even part-time, doing things like cleaning up graffiti, etc?

It would be a psychological boost for both those collecting welfare and to the communities that are refreshed. Such projects are usually done by "volunteers", so why couldn't those "volunteers" come from those with idle time on their hands right now?

Why not mobilize an unemployed IT person to spend one day a week tutoring in computer skills at after-school programs? or boys' or girls' club programs? or in re-training programs for unemployed workers.

I do think that such ideas can be better implemented at local levels rather than the long reach of the Federal govt.

dnf777
07-03-2010, 07:33 AM
It would be a psychological boost for both those collecting welfare and to the communities that are refreshed. Such projects are usually done by "volunteers", so why couldn't those "volunteers" come from those with idle time on their hands right now?

Why not mobilize an unemployed IT person to spend one day a week tutoring in computer skills at after-school programs? or boys' or girls' club programs? or in re-training programs for unemployed workers.

I do think that such ideas can be better implemented at local levels rather than the long reach of the Federal govt.

Other than your last statement, you sound like a FDR democrat, with a New Deal!! :D When we go to our camp in the Allegheny Forest, the streams are littered with CCC dams and parks. I think its high time to resurrect the CCC, but not only in conservation efforts, but higher tech jobs as you suggested.

Roger Perry
07-03-2010, 08:58 AM
Sorry Roger, but you will get NO SYMPATHY from me. I have worked 2 jobs for over 15 years- one as self employed and the other on commission.
Both took a huge long lasting hit during this recession.

Neither classification would allow me to get unemployment for 1 week or 104 weeks even if I had tried. There are many private sector charities that could help you, or you could try to get a job even if it is at a day labor position that will feed your family. Be self reliant, because the government is not here for you, only for their own power!

YOUR PRESIDENT wants it this way, Rely on the government for your existence. Or, you could buy a pickup truck and haul stuff or carry metal to be recycled, or even buy a truck and a trailer and a couple of mowers and you may even steal a job from an illegal if you price yourself cheap enough. The grass grows almost year around in FL

Sorry, I am not drawing unemployment. I am a realtor working on commission as an independent contractor which would not allow me to be eligeble to get any assistance from unemployment. Nice try though.

Roger Perry
07-03-2010, 09:08 AM
Roger,

Your insurance company will pay for your house if you keep your policy current. You should suffer no physical damage to yourself as you will have a chance to evacuate since hurricanes are able to be tracked for several days and you will have ample warning to evacuate. I am
not an insurance salesman but if you need help I could reccomend a good company.
Likewise if you need to evacuate just PM me and I'll help you with a route out of your current location. I will even take in your dogs till you are ready to head back south!! That is what real people do in the US, we don't watch a fellow man go under if we can possibly help. WTF is so hard about that!!!

Although tornadoes and quakes are a bit different the same rules would apply, insurance should cover the individual, the feds should step in to help with infrastructure, that is all.
Just where in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Declaration of Independence does it say that the Government is responsible for taking care of you.
Every time I have ever read it I came away with the impression that the founders wanted a very limited role of government in your life so you could take care of yourself and be whatever you wanted to be

I appreciate the offer but have ridden out the hurricanes that have hit here.

The other thing is Governor's of states that have been hit by hurricanes, tornado's and earthquakes have always declared the affected areas a distaster area and ask for government aid and that = $ from the federal government.

Illinois Bob
07-03-2010, 10:43 AM
After all, Obama can't even stop a leaking well 5000' under the sea, how will he fly a spaceship to Mars?

Thankfully,it's not the politicians who will be flying the ship.The engineers,contractors and astronauts do that and I trust that it will be done right if they get the chance.:cool:

scott furbeck
07-03-2010, 12:30 PM
What would perplex the founders would be the unwillingness to kill enough people or break enough stuff to make them want to stop. We could be done and out of there by now. We do not posses the will to win.[/QUOTE]

I disagree :

The country of Afghanistan did not attack us. A political/religious organization did that is centered out of that neck of the woods did. Leveling the whole country of Afghanistan would not make us one bit safer. In a western culture, you are right... we could break enough stuff to perhaps make it painful enough. Not in that neck of the woods. Please name the last country to sucessfully win ANY war in that neck of the woods in the last 300 years and maintain order for more 40 years. What makes you think we can ?

Our founding fathers were against a large standing army and it's indiscriminate use.