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Roger Perry
07-14-2010, 01:59 PM
Racism in Tea Party -----? Tell me it's not so.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38234502/ns/politics/?GT1=43001

ducknwork
07-14-2010, 02:19 PM
Wow. Has to be the single greatest example of the pot calling the kettle black in the history of the world.

troy schwab
07-14-2010, 02:20 PM
Wow. Has to be the single greatest example of the pot calling the kettle black in the history of the world.

Definitely right up there.......LOL

road kill
07-14-2010, 02:28 PM
Provide one factual peice of evidence to support this claim.




Standing by..........


rk

luvmylabs23139
07-14-2010, 05:25 PM
The NAACP are the ones who are racist!

M&K's Retrievers
07-14-2010, 05:32 PM
The NAACP are the ones who are racist!

Along with Mr. & Mrs. Obama I'm afraid.

gman0046
07-14-2010, 05:43 PM
Lets add Jesse Jackass, Al Sharpton and last but not least the Attorney General Holder who might be the biggest racist of all.

luvmylabs23139
07-14-2010, 05:51 PM
Let's not forget the Rev. Wright.

road kill
07-14-2010, 09:04 PM
Roger,

I'm waiting!!!


stan b

Julie R.
07-14-2010, 10:19 PM
So Roger agrees with the NAACP that the Tea Party is racist. Let's also remember that he believes Bush was a racist and singlehandedly made Katrina happen to keep the black man down. So it's just another example of how it's all Bush's fault...something new and different from Roger! http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/SARCASM.gif

Does the Tea Party have racist members? No doubt--so does the NAACP.

Blackstone
07-14-2010, 10:29 PM
The NAACP are the ones who are racist!

I don't know if the Tea Party is racist. I have only seen one picture of a racist sign at a rally, and heard unsubstantiated claims of racist remarks. So, the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. However, I would like to know why you think the NAACP is racist?

JDogger
07-15-2010, 12:11 AM
Does the Tea Party have racist members? No doubt--so does the NAACP.

You won't get an arguement from me on that statement, Julie. :( JD

PS Now we all claim to not be racist, right, left, middle. Somehow, though, it seems to come out in what we consider innocent comments. Both right ,left and middle. Hard to escape, and hard to avoid.

Clay Rogers
07-15-2010, 02:29 AM
I don't know if the Tea Party is racist. I have only seen one picture of a racist sign at a rally, and heard unsubstantiated claims of racist remarks. So, the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. However, I would like to know why you think the NAACP is racist?

My question is How would a party or movement that was strictly for the advancement or progression of white people go over? Or a United White people college fund? Not saying there should be anything like that, but there seems to be a double standard in this country. Seems to me, and this is just my observation and opinion, that the majority of the black community doesn't want racial tension to go away. Then they might have to take responsibilty for themselves and realize that their problems are just that, theirs.

PS: that sure is a nice looking dog you have there Blackstone.

road kill
07-15-2010, 06:20 AM
Roger,
1 peice of evidence to support your claim.

Just 1???


I am waiting.



rk

BrianW
07-15-2010, 08:29 AM
We felt the time had come to stand up and say, 'It's time for the tea party to be responsible members of this democracy and make sure they don't tolerate bigots or bigotry among their members,'" NAACP President Ben Jealous said ahead of the debate. "We don't have a problem with the tea party's existence. We have an issue with their acceptance and welcoming of white supremacists into their organizations."

Why isn't there some specific repudiatiion of the recent black racism by self proclaimed representatives of the black community such as Shabazz as well? While it has been addressed by some members in TV interviews, by it's (to me ) glaring absence in these statements, is not the NAACP as an org thus condoning, if not accepting that black supremacy extremism and advocacy of racial hatred?

If they are against portayals of Obama as "Hitler" and they truly "accept the tea party's existence" , why do they tolerate Obama's own bigoted characterization of members as "tea baggers"!? Is that being "a responsible member of this democracy"?

I think they should work on removing the beam from their own eye before trying to remove the speck from the tea party's.

badbullgator
07-15-2010, 08:34 AM
Roger,
1 peice of evidence to support your claim.

Just 1???


I am waiting.



rk

Just hold on......he is trying to find some way to prove that Bush is at fault for this.
EVERY GROUP IN THE WORLD HAS MEMBERS THAT ARE RACIST IN SOME WAY. EVERY SINGLE ONE. pretty much the same is true of everything if the group is large enough. I bet there are even, gasp, gays involved in the tea party, and maybe even a Muslim or two. Individuals do not represent the group as a whole most of the time.

Blackstone
07-15-2010, 12:03 PM
My question is How would a party or movement that was strictly for the advancement or progression of white people go over? Or a United White people college fund? Not saying there should be anything like that, but there seems to be a double standard in this country. Seems to me, and this is just my observation and opinion, that the majority of the black community doesn't want racial tension to go away. Then they might have to take responsibilty for themselves and realize that their problems are just that, theirs.

PS: that sure is a nice looking dog you have there Blackstone.

The aim of the NAACP was to improve the social, economic & political conditions black people faced. It was not meant to provide them with some advantage over white people.

They went on to successfully overturn an OK law that disenfranchised black voters, launched a campaign against the movie “Birth of a Nation”, which glorified the KKK, and throughout the 20’s fought against lynching through the support of the Dyer Bill, which would have punished those who participated in or failed to prosecute lynch mobs, but Congress never passed that bill. They fought segregation and Jim Crow, and fought for equal housing, pay, jobs, etc.

The NAACP has always included whites among their membership. In order to call them racist, they would need to commit some racist act or make some racist statement.

Likewise, the United Negro College Fund was formed in the mid-1800s to educate former slaves. At the time, blacks were not allowed to attend most traditional state and private colleges and universities, and few states would allow the education of blacks using public funds. So, “Negro” colleges were formed, and the UNCF raised money to support these colleges because state funds were not available to them. They also provided scholarships for students that could not afford to attend without them. Whites have never been excluded from attending these schools, but few have. At one point there was actually a campaign to recruit more white students, but it met with little success. However, in 2008, a white student graduated from Moorehouse College as it’s valedictorian.

So, here are 2 organizations blacks have used to “take responsibility for themselves,” especially at a time when most of America refused to include them, yet you see them as perpetuating a double standard and find them racist. Hmmmm!

P.S. Thanks for the compliment on my dog.

Roger Perry
07-15-2010, 12:04 PM
Roger,
1 peice of evidence to support your claim.

Just 1???


I am waiting.



rk

I did not claim anything, just asking a question.

Lucky Seven
07-15-2010, 01:04 PM
I did not claim anything, just asking a question.

Back peddle faster Roger ...... hurry, hurry, hurry

badbullgator
07-15-2010, 01:07 PM
Chad
He likes to psot things as questions so he can say he was just asking. Makes him feel good you know

Roger Perry
07-15-2010, 01:31 PM
Back peddle faster Roger ...... hurry, hurry, hurry

This is the start of the thread. Do you not see the question mark there????? Do you know that a question mark at the end of a sentence asks a question????????? Surely you must have been taught that in grammer school.

Roger Perry (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/member.php?u=23438)

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port St. Lucie, Fl
Posts: 1,698


http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif NAACP condemns racism in tea party
Racism in Tea Party -----? Tell me it's not so.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38234502...ics/?GT1=43001

Lucky Seven
07-15-2010, 02:19 PM
This is the start of the thread. Do you not see the question mark there????? Do you know that a question mark at the end of a sentence asks a question????????? Surely you must have been taught that in grammer school.

Roger Perry (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/member.php?u=23438)

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port St. Lucie, Fl
Posts: 1,698


http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif NAACP condemns racism in tea party
Racism in Tea Party -----? Tell me it's not so.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38234502...ics/?GT1=43001

Yeah, Im sure that what you meant. Its Ok Roger, do what you do best ...... throw a political bomb and then run for cover.

kb27_99
07-15-2010, 02:25 PM
The aim of the NAACP was to improve the social, economic & political conditions black people faced.

So I have to ask, do you think men and women of color still face the same social, economic & political conditions now as they did 75 years ago?


It was not meant to provide them with some advantage over white people.

It may have not been meant to be that way but I do know of many situations where the less qualified person received the position because of their ethnic background.

Its time to leave the past in the past. Every person in this country can live up to their potential if they truly want to regardless if they have purple skin. Obama is proof of that, is he not?


Kevin

gman0046
07-15-2010, 04:35 PM
Amazing, three pages of posts and no one mentioned reverse discrimination. As a Federal Government employee, I can tell you its alive and well. I've seen may positions filled which all but said white males need not apply. Positions that hold hiring authority are encouraged and rewarded for minority hiring.

Blackstone
07-15-2010, 04:49 PM
So I have to ask, do you think men and women of color still face the same social, economic & political conditions now as they did 75 years ago?

Of course not. I don't think I ever even indicated anything like that. However, because things are better than they were 75 years ago, doesn't mean everything is fair and okay today. Things have improved, but some of the same social and economic issues still exist today. You don't have to go back 75 years to find discrimnation. As I said before, I can recount numerous incidents that happened to me personally, some of them pretty recently.




It may have not been meant to be that way but I do know of many situations where the less qualified person received the position because of their ethnic background.

Its time to leave the past in the past. Every person in this country can live up to their potential if they truly want to regardless if they have purple skin. Obama is proof of that, is he not?

It's much easier to leave the past in the past when nothing was done to you in the past. You say you know of many situations where a less qualified person received a position because of their ethnic background. I would be interest to know just how many. I can tell you, almost every black person in my generation that I know has had that experience personally. I know several young black people that have had that happen to them.



I don't deny that today, with a lot of hard work, dedication and perseverance, you have a good chance of reaching your potential. But, to think you're not going to face racism along the way is unrealistic. You point to Obama as proof, but he is the exception rather than the rule. There are a lot of intelligent and capable blacks out there, but take a look at the Board of Directors and CEOs of most Fortune 500 companies, and tell me how many minorities, not just blacks, you see. Do you think that is accidental, or that minorities are just less qualified?

http://www.blackentrepreneurprofile.com/fortune-500-ceos/

http://www.thegrio.com/money/fortune-500s-suffer-from-a-deficit-of-boardroom-diversity.php

Blackstone
07-15-2010, 04:54 PM
Amazing, three pages of posts and no one mentioned reverse discrimination. As a Federal Government employee, I can tell you its alive and well. I've seen may positions filled which all but said white males need not apply. Positions that hold hiring authority are encouraged and rewarded for minority hiring.

Can't have reverse discrimination without having discrimination in the first place. If you get rid of discrimination, reverse discrimination will go away on its own. I don't support discrimination in any form. I don't wait until I think it might impact me negatively before I complain.

gman0046
07-15-2010, 04:58 PM
Do you think maybe the low high school graduation rates of blacks might be the reason for them to not be on the Board of Directors or CEO's of Fortune 500 Companies?

Blackstone
07-15-2010, 05:57 PM
Do you think maybe the low high school graduation rates of blacks might be the reason for them to not be on the Board of Directors or CEO's of Fortune 500 Companies?

No. There are plenty of qualified blacks out there with Masters and PhD degrees. They have paid their dues and proven themselves within their companies, but never had their names submitted for the positions (If look at the links I posted, you will see that). And, what about Asian Americans? They have a high school graduation rate of about 86%, which is higher than whites at about 75%. 50% of all Asian Americans have a Bachelors degree or higher compared to 30% of whites. So, based on your premise, Asian Americans should be running most Fortune 500 companies. Where are they? Still don’t think that something is wrong?

kb27_99
07-15-2010, 06:24 PM
Of course not. I don't think I ever even indicated anything like that. However, because things are better than they were 75 years ago, doesn't mean everything is fair and okay today. Things have improved, but some of the same social and economic issues still exist today. You don't have to go back 75 years to find discrimnation. As I said before, I can recount numerous incidents that happened to me personally, some of them pretty recently.





It's much easier to leave the past in the past when nothing was done to you in the past. You say you know of many situations where a less qualified person received a position because of their ethnic background. I would be interest to know just how many. I can tell you, almost every black person in my generation that I know has had that experience personally. I know several young black people that have had that happen to them.



I don't deny that today, with a lot of hard work, dedication and perseverance, you have a good chance of reaching your potential. But, to think you're not going to face racism along the way is unrealistic. You point to Obama as proof, but he is the exception rather than the rule. There are a lot of intelligent and capable blacks out there, but take a look at the Board of Directors and CEOs of most Fortune 500 companies, and tell me how many minorities, not just blacks, you see. Do you think that is accidental, or that minorities are just less qualified?

http://www.blackentrepreneurprofile.com/fortune-500-ceos/

http://www.thegrio.com/money/fortune-500s-suffer-from-a-deficit-of-boardroom-diversity.php

Blackstone, please don’t take me the wrong way. I think you are good person from what I can tell by reading your post.

I went to grade school and junior high that was 80% minority, teachers included. Trust me when I tell you I know what you went/going through. Discrimination happens to all people in one way or another.

Kevin

kb27_99
07-15-2010, 06:28 PM
Do you think maybe the low high school graduation rates of blacks might be the reason for them to not be on the Board of Directors or CEO's of Fortune 500 Companies?

Why don’t you quit making an argument you can’t win. Post some facts to back up your post and you may get more creditability.

gman0046
07-15-2010, 07:02 PM
kb27 99, the facts on the Detroit (where he lives) high school graduation rate for black males is 33% where as their white counterparts are at 74%. Any more facts you want to know before opening your mouth? Google it if you don't believe the facts.

Blackstone
07-15-2010, 07:46 PM
kb27 99, the facts on the Detroit (where he lives) high school graduation rate for black males is 33% where as their white counterparts are at 74%. Any more facts you want to know before opening your mouth? Google it if you don't believe the facts.

Actually, I don't live in Detroit, but that doesn't surprise me. Detroit is a pretty depressed. There is a lot of hopelessness in that city right now. I think you will find graduation figures down in any social-economically depressed areas. The figured I posted were national figures. Nationally, black graduation rates are at about 51% compared to 75% for whites, which is still low.

However, that still doesn't address the fact that minorities are not significantly represented in those jobs. Corporations don't hire people with high school diplomas to be CEOs or Board members. So, I ask again, with 50% of all Asian Americans over 25 having a Bachelors degree or higher degree, why aren't they represented in much higher numbers?

luvmylabs23139
07-15-2010, 08:54 PM
Test scores were lowered for minorities for both police and fire exams in Danbury, CT.
A white was required to score much higher in order to make the cut. That is flat out total BS and reverse discrimination. Yes I do know this to be a fact. This happened in the early 90's. I can actually back it up on paper. I quit my HR job when I had racial cutoffs given to me to sent out letters for the next phase of testing. I still have a copy of the cuttoff #'s.

Clay Rogers
07-16-2010, 03:01 AM
The aim of the NAACP was to improve the social, economic & political conditions black people faced. It was not meant to provide them with some advantage over white people.

They went on to successfully overturn an OK law that disenfranchised black voters, launched a campaign against the movie “Birth of a Nation”, which glorified the KKK, and throughout the 20’s fought against lynching through the support of the Dyer Bill, which would have punished those who participated in or failed to prosecute lynch mobs, but Congress never passed that bill. They fought segregation and Jim Crow, and fought for equal housing, pay, jobs, etc.

The NAACP has always included whites among their membership. In order to call them racist, they would need to commit some racist act or make some racist statement.

Likewise, the United Negro College Fund was formed in the mid-1800s to educate former slaves. At the time, blacks were not allowed to attend most traditional state and private colleges and universities, and few states would allow the education of blacks using public funds. So, “Negro” colleges were formed, and the UNCF raised money to support these colleges because state funds were not available to them. They also provided scholarships for students that could not afford to attend without them. Whites have never been excluded from attending these schools, but few have. At one point there was actually a campaign to recruit more white students, but it met with little success. However, in 2008, a white student graduated from Moorehouse College as it’s valedictorian.

So, here are 2 organizations blacks have used to “take responsibility for themselves,” especially at a time when most of America refused to include them, yet you see them as perpetuating a double standard and find them racist. Hmmmm!

P.S. Thanks for the compliment on my dog.

Never called these organizations racist, but there is a double standard. I think that when these organizations were started, they were legitimate organizations, but they don't seem that way today. Just like I don't think the tea party movement is racist. Sure it may have some racist members, every organization does, including NAACP and UNCF, but that doesn't make the whole party racist.

kb27_99
07-16-2010, 08:38 AM
kb27 99, the facts on the Detroit (where he lives) high school graduation rate for black males is 33% where as their white counterparts are at 74%. Any more facts you want to know before opening your mouth? Google it if you don't believe the facts.


I stand corrected. Sorry gman I didn't realize your world revolved around Detroit city.

Nor_Cal_Angler
07-16-2010, 09:17 AM
Can't have reverse discrimination without having discrimination in the first place. If you get rid of discrimination, reverse discrimination will go away on its own. I don't support discrimination in any form. I don't wait until I think it might impact me negatively before I complain.

Two wrongs dont make a right......

NCA

road kill
07-16-2010, 11:25 AM
I am still waiting for 1 example of Tea Party racism, just 1.

Roger???

Anybody???



stan b

Roger Perry
07-16-2010, 11:54 AM
I am still waiting for 1 example of Tea Party racism, just 1.

Roger???

Anybody???



stan b

You asked for it so here it is. But watch what you wish for because it might just jump up and bite you in the ass.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/msnbc-rachel-maddow-tea-party-racism101/f1386eb61590a848555bf1386eb61590a848555b-166664536996?q=example%20of%20tea%20party%20racism&FORM=VIRE3

road kill
07-16-2010, 12:51 PM
You asked for it so here it is. But watch what you wish for because it might just jump up and bite you in the ass.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/msnbc-rachel-maddow-tea-party-racism101/f1386eb61590a848555bf1386eb61590a848555b-166664536996?q=example%20of%20tea%20party%20racism&FORM=VIRE3

Uh, Rog, buddy, Tancredo said nothing racist, your gal pal Rachel put her spin on it to demean him.

In other words, she played the "RACE" card, cause she had nothing else and didn't like what he had said.

Now......THIS is RACIST;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0uy3_APuCA&feature=related

Or this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gnmUyminI&feature=related
(pay close attention around 36 seconds in)


Enjoy Rog!!;-)



rk

gman0046
07-16-2010, 01:25 PM
Obama, Rev.Wright, Holder, Jesse Jackass, Al Sharpton, the NAACP, the Black Panther Party, Acorn and the like have set back race relations in this country for at least 50 years and probably longer. They are the ones causing racial discord by ignoring Black Panthers who broke election laws without prosecution and the failure of enforcing Federal Immigration laws already on the books and suing Arizona when sanctuary cities continue unabated. Sharpton and Jackass have been extortionists for years. How about Obama stating the white Boston policeman acted stupidly without knowing the facts and then the idiotic beer party. Holder berating the Arizona law and admitting he never read it. I believe future elections will have a racial component like never before.

M&K's Retrievers
07-16-2010, 01:48 PM
You asked for it so here it is. But watch what you wish for because it might just jump up and bite you in the ass.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/msnbc-rachel-maddow-tea-party-racism101/f1386eb61590a848555bf1386eb61590a848555b-166664536996?q=example%20of%20tea%20party%20racism&FORM=VIRE3

He suggested literacy test for all which is probably a good idea. And while we are raising taxes lets throw the poll tax back in the mix too.

Maddow was reaching to make her point which was weak.

.

gman0046
07-16-2010, 05:13 PM
Sorry Maddow, Tancredo didn't say anything that wasn't true.

YardleyLabs
07-16-2010, 05:41 PM
Uh, Rog, buddy, Tancredo said nothing racist, your gal pal Rachel put her spin on it to demean him.

In other words, she played the "RACE" card, cause she had nothing else and didn't like what he had said.

Now......THIS is RACIST;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0uy3_APuCA&feature=related

Or this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gnmUyminI&feature=related
(pay close attention around 36 seconds in)


Enjoy Rog!!;-)



rk
I would agree that the statement made at the tea party convention was not racist even though it sought a return to a voting policy that, in my lifetime, was used almost exclusively to keep blacks from voting. The second example is definitely racism, though not very relevant to anything. One can always find an idiot to express overtly bigoted feelings about any race. The third piece is not even vaguely racist. Talking about race is not racism. Talking about race with malicious generalizations or the implication that it is somehow OK to exclude or discriminate based on race is racism.

road kill
07-16-2010, 06:00 PM
I would agree that the statement made at the tea party convention was not racist even though it sought a return to a voting policy that, in my lifetime, was used almost exclusively to keep blacks from voting. The second example is definitely racism, though not very relevant to anything. One can always find an idiot to express overtly bigoted feelings about any race. The third piece is not even vaguely racist. Talking about race is not racism. Talking about race with malicious generalizations or the implication that it is somehow OK to exclude or discriminate based on race is racism.


So.....talking about a "typical white person" is not racist.

But expressing a sentiment that if you can't read or write TODAY equates to racism.
Then that would be on you insinuating that with todays opportunities, only certain races don't take advantage?

Why would you say something that ridiculus??


Are you stereo typing a race?

Or, are you claiming to know what both Tancredo and Obama think??


WOW Jeff, pretty full of ourselves, aren't we???
I am embarrassed for you on this one.:oops:






stan b

YardleyLabs
07-16-2010, 06:18 PM
So.....talking about a "typical white person" is not racist.

But expressing a sentiment that if you can't read or write TODAY equates to racism.
Then that would be on you insinuating that with todays opportunities, only certain races don't take advantage?

Why would you say something that ridiculus??


Are you stereo typing a race?

Or, are you claiming to know what both Tancredo and Obama think??


WOW Jeff, pretty full of ourselves, aren't we???
I am embarrassed for you on this one.:oops:






stan b
If you read my post, Stan, you will see that I said that I do not believe that Tancredo's statements were racist. I did note that the historical application of voting tests was done primarily to exclude black voters. If Obama's statement about white people meets your definition of racist, then you are effectively saying that every single person on this forum who has made generalizations about blacks is a racist. Are you sure you want to go there? We will never grow past race in this country until we understand that the difference between talking about race (or religion or nationality) is not evidence of bigotry. The evidence of bigotry comes from maliciousness and efforts to use perceived differences for exclusionary purposes (as opposed to inclusive purposes).

david gibson
07-16-2010, 07:27 PM
If you read my post, Stan, you will see that I said that I do not believe that Tancredo's statements were racist. I did note that the historical application of voting tests was done primarily to exclude black voters. If Obama's statement about white people meets your definition of racist, then you are effectively saying that every single person on this forum who has made generalizations about blacks is a racist. Are you sure you want to go there? We will never grow past race in this country until we understand that the difference between talking about race (or religion or nationality) is not evidence of bigotry. The evidence of bigotry comes from maliciousness and efforts to use perceived differences for exclusionary purposes (as opposed to inclusive purposes).

well, you guys have already done that to me, sir. i was called (or at least strongly insinuated as) racist for pointing out that there are more whites by percentage in the retriever game than there are whites by percentage in the cross section of america. which, by way, is an obvious fact. obama could not prove "typical" white people like his grandma were afraid of all blacks. he guessed at that.


and if dare i said something like "Blackstone is not a typical black person because he hunts and is an avid outdoorsman" or "like a typical black person, they voted for obama" you and he would have pointed the "racist fingers" at me IMMEDIATELY.

so come on now, lets be fair. i have toned down my rhetoric immensely and only care to hear valid objective comments.

YardleyLabs
07-16-2010, 07:56 PM
well, you guys have already done that to me, sir. i was called (or at least strongly insinuated as) racist for pointing out that there are more whites by percentage in the retriever game than there are whites by percentage in the cross section of america. which, by way, is an obvious fact. obama could not prove "typical" white people like his grandma were afraid of all blacks. he guessed at that.


and if dare i said something like "Blackstone is not a typical black person because he hunts and is an avid outdoorsman" or "like a typical black person, they voted for obama" you and he would have pointed the "racist fingers" at me IMMEDIATELY.

so come on now, lets be fair. i have toned down my rhetoric immensely and only care to hear valid objective comments.
David,

You might want to deal with what you actually wrote. You didn't say the majority of particpants were white, you said:


...

this sport and lifestyle of retrievers and hunting that we all hold in common is pretty much exclusive to the middle and upper middle class anglo section of our society. ...

You then added in a later post (same thread) "show me the latinos and african americans running dogs... :confused:".

"pretty much exclusive" is not quite the same as a simple majority. And as was pointed out, there are quite a few people who fall outside the boundaries of what yu consider normal. That was when you began back pedaling to suggest that you were only talking about the majority. Bull.

Yes, the majority in our sport are white, male, Christian, straight conservatives and those people are overwhelmingly opposed to Obama. However, there are also quite a few people who are non-white, non-Christian, liberal, or gay. Many of those oppose Obama as well and some support Obama. Of all the things that are important to our sport, you seem to be focusing on the least important.

david gibson
07-16-2010, 08:50 PM
David,

You might want to deal with what you actually wrote. You didn't say the majority of particpants were white, you said:



You then added in a later post (same thread) "show me the latinos and african americans running dogs... :confused:".

"pretty much exclusive" is not quite the same as a simple majority. And as was pointed out, there are quite a few people who fall outside the boundaries of what yu consider normal. That was when you began back pedaling to suggest that you were only talking about the majority. Bull.

Yes, the majority in our sport are white, male, Christian, straight conservatives and those people are overwhelmingly opposed to Obama. However, there are also quite a few people who are non-white, non-Christian, liberal, or gay. Many of those oppose Obama as well and some support Obama. Of all the things that are important to our sport, you seem to be focusing on the least important.

dont over-analyze it man, deal with reality for once, can you?

you said: ""pretty much exclusive" is not quite the same as a simple majority."

sir, a "simple majority" is 50.5% up. clearly we are well beyond that. a 55%-45% election win is considered a mandate, and yet we are talking 80% or so here so my statement stands. that is closer to 100% than 50.5% so in my opinion thats closer to "pretty much exclusive" than it is to "simple majority". i really dont understand why you are so determined to prove me wrong, but clearly its a majority white game, thats all i ever said, thats all i ever meant to say, thats as far as i ever meant to take it, and its fact.. i guess in your mind "pretty much exclusive" must meet some arbitrary level of 99.9%. whatever, the basic tenet of my statement stands. get over it.

now, if i find a couple of white college kids that like hip-hop, i can contract you to prove that hip-hop is not a black dominated genre of music because a few token white kids like it. if anyone can do it, you can. and of course, that wont be a racist statement because it is biased in the politically correct direction.

hey - we have vanilla ice, right? by your logic that proves that rap is not a majority african american dominated genre of music. chuck berry and jimi??? noooo - rock and roll is not a "pretty much exclusive" anglo genre of music, is it? do you get it yet??? open your eyes to reality, not political correctness, until we can all do that we will never step forward.

and just like the NBA - its ok to have the players predominantly of color, against the cross section of america, but noooooooooooooooooooo - the coaching MUST equal the cross section or we will complain.


i am sick of it, over, kaput, done, over, go ahead a spin to your hearts desire.

worth repeating - open your eyes to reality, not political correctness, until we can all do that we will never step forward.

peace be with you and your family.

Blackstone
07-16-2010, 11:11 PM
Never called these organizations racist, but there is a double standard. I think that when these organizations were started, they were legitimate organizations, but they don't seem that way today. Just like I don't think the tea party movement is racist. Sure it may have some racist members, every organization does, including NAACP and UNCF, but that doesn't make the whole party racist.

You weren’t the one that called them racist. Although, that person never bother so show where they actually were racist.

Still, I fail to see the double standard. And, I don’t see how they are not legitimate today. The UNCF is doing what it always did. It provides funding for colleges that offer an educational opportunity to students that might not other wise be able to afford it. The tuition at UNCF schools tend to significantly lower than traditional state or private colleges. The money the UNCF raises for these schools is the main reason those tuitions are lower. They also provide scholarships at UNCF schools for students that qualify. None of these colleges have ever prevented or excluded white students from enrolling. If they whites chose not to attend a UNCF school, that is their personal choice, but in no way indicates a lack of legitimacy on the part of the UNCF. I have never even heard of even one comment or act attributed to this organization that would indicate any bias based on race.

Likewise, the NAACP began as an organization dedicated to addressing racism against blacks and improving their socio-economic condition. Unless you think there is no more racism in this country, there is still a need for some form of advocacy against it. I think that a lot of white no longer want to hear about it, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Blackstone
07-16-2010, 11:19 PM
Two wrongs dont make a right......

NCA

You are correct. However, you only seem concerned about the reverse discrimination. My point was, if you deal with root problem, all the problems that resulted from it will go away on their own. In other words, cure the disease, and the resulting symptoms will go away.

kb27_99
07-16-2010, 11:27 PM
Likewise, the NAACP began as an organization dedicated to addressing racism against blacks and improving their socio-economic condition. Unless you think there is no more racism in this country, there is still a need for some form of advocacy against it. I think that a lot of white no longer want to hear about it, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Racism lies on both sides of the fence. Who ever doesn't believe so is wearing blinders. The problem is if the majority organizes or forms an organization to better their race like you describe there would be uproar from the NAACP.

kb27_99
07-16-2010, 11:29 PM
You are correct. However, you only seem concerned about the reverse discrimination. My point was, if you deal with root problem, all the problems that resulted from it will go away on their own. In other words, cure the disease, and the resulting symptoms will go away.

Examples please..........

Blackstone
07-16-2010, 11:42 PM
I am still waiting for 1 example of Tea Party racism, just 1.

Roger???

Anybody???





stan b

I cannot say the Tea Party itself is a racist organization. However, at least one of its spokes people are right there on the edge.

“Mark Williams, chairman of the Tea Party Express, blogged about the 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center planned at Park Place and Broadway, calling it a monument to the 9/11 terrorists.

‘The monument would consist of a Mosque for the worship of the terrorists' monkey-god," Williams, a frequent guest on CNN, wrote on his Web site.”’

__________________________________________________ _______________

“Mark Williams, chairman of the Tea Party Express, took to his blog to spew hate at Stringer after the politician compared him to Adolf Hitler at a press conference last week.

Williams countered that Stringer is a ‘sniviling [sic] worm’ and ‘a Jewish Uncle Tom who would have turned rat on Anne Frank."’

Blackstone
07-17-2010, 01:05 AM
Racism lies on both sides of the fence. Who ever doesn't believe so is wearing blinders. The problem is if the majority organizes or forms an organization to better their race like you describe there would be uproar from the NAACP.

Perhaps you missed the part of my original post on the NAACP citing that the organization was founded by whites, not blacks, to address the grievous injustices that were being committed against blacks on a regular basis in this country. The idea was not to elevate blacks above any other group, it was to help blacks enter mainstream America.

There are organizations that were set up to “better” the conditions whites. The Christian Appalachian Project (CAP) is an organization dedicated to improving the socioeconomic of people that live in rural Appalachia. The ethnic makeup of rural Appalachia is probably 98% white. If you go the CAP website and look at the pictures of who they help and the services they provide, you won’t find any blacks. There are other organizations founded with the express purpose of helping these same people. So, here you have organizations founded by whites for the betterment of whites. I have never heard the NAACP in an uproar over any of them.

Blackstone
07-17-2010, 01:42 AM
Obama, Rev.Wright, Holder, Jesse Jackass, Al Sharpton, the NAACP, the Black Panther Party, Acorn and the like have set back race relations in this country for at least 50 years and probably longer. They are the ones causing racial discord by ignoring Black Panthers who broke election laws without prosecution and the failure of enforcing Federal Immigration laws already on the books and suing Arizona when sanctuary cities continue unabated. Sharpton and Jackass have been extortionists for years. How about Obama stating the white Boston policeman acted stupidly without knowing the facts and then the idiotic beer party. Holder berating the Arizona law and admitting he never read it. I believe future elections will have a racial component like never before.

This makes absolutely no sense. If this were true, then Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Pat Buchanan, Hannity & the Minutemen would be guilty of causing racial discord for ingorning armed Minutemen that intimidated hispanic voters at the polls in AZ in 2006. If Sharpton and Jackson are extortionist, what are Limbaugh, Beck & Buchanan? And, you still assume “acted stupidly” is a racial slur.

Blackstone
07-17-2010, 01:55 AM
Examples please..........

Examples of what? Please be more specific.

Gerry Clinchy
07-17-2010, 09:02 AM
There are organizations that were set up to “better” the conditions whites. The Christian Appalachian Project (CAP) is an organization dedicated to improving the socioeconomic of people that live in rural Appalachia. The ethnic makeup of rural Appalachia is probably 98% white. If you go the CAP website and look at the pictures of who they help and the services they provide, you won’t find any blacks. There are other organizations founded with the express purpose of helping these same people. So, here you have organizations founded by whites for the betterment of whites. I have never heard the NAACP in an uproar over any of them.

The difference in premise might be that the "mission" is not based upon ethnicity for CAP. Nor is it based on religious orientation ... although most of the people it serves might be of Christian belief. The basis would be economic situation.

The question might be whether they would give equal services to all races and creeds. If so, then they would not be quite the same as NAACP.

In real estate we are very conscious of non-discrimination. There are "protected" classes (Federal ones & expanded scope of our state) ... which also include exigencies like using a service dog, being in a drug re-hab program, and "family status". However, it is not against any law to "discriminate" based on economic situation. Too-low income; too-high debt and poor credit history can be considered. $40K a year income with a $600 car payment won't get you a $1M home ... well, at least not anymore :-P

Blackstone
07-17-2010, 12:33 PM
The difference in premise might be that the "mission" is not based upon ethnicity for CAP. Nor is it based on religious orientation ... although most of the people it serves might be of Christian belief. The basis would be economic situation.

The question might be whether they would give equal services to all races and creeds. If so, then they would not be quite the same as NAACP.

Gerry,

I can’t say if they would provide aid to minorities. The fact is, among the group they have chosen to help, there probably aren't any blacks.

However, there are plenty of organization that only help certain ethnic groups in the U.S. (i.e. Polish American Association: The mission of the Polish American Association, a human service agency, is to serve the diverse needs of the Polish community . . . ; National Italian American Foundation: NIAF serves as a resource on the Italian American community and has educational and youth programs including scholarships, grants, heritage travel, and mentoring).

There are currently thousands of scholarships through ethnic organizations that are only available to Polish Americans, Irish Americans, Italian Americans, German Americans or Ukrainian Americans.

None of these organizations or scholarships provide benefits to blacks, but I don’t see them as racist, and I don’t think anyone else does either. They are just helping a segment of the population they share a common identity and interest with. That is what the NAACP does. The only difference is the NAACP is higher profile.

Gerry Clinchy
07-17-2010, 12:40 PM
Now, those are very good examples, Blackstone!

I actually don't have a negative perception about the UNCF. Perhaps the negatives perceived of the NAACP has to do with its association with some high-profile headlines & Sharpton and Jackson.

Roger Perry
07-17-2010, 01:33 PM
Uh, Rog, buddy, Tancredo said nothing racist, your gal pal Rachel put her spin on it to demean him.

In other words, she played the "RACE" card, cause she had nothing else and didn't like what he had said.

Now......THIS is RACIST;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0uy3_APuCA&feature=related

Or this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gnmUyminI&feature=related
(pay close attention around 36 seconds in)


Enjoy Rog!!;-)



rk

Perhaps you do not think these are racist quotes either.

Enjoy RK

Rush's Most Racist Comments
1. Regarding slavery: We didn't have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I'm not saying we should bring it back; I'm just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark -- (Dave Zirin; The Nation 10/9/09)
2. You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed. -- As quoted in 101 People who are REALLY Screwing Up America (2006) by Jack Huberman
3. Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson? -- As quoted in "Limbaugh : A Color Man Who Has A Problem With Color?" by Jeff Cohen and Steve Rendall in FAIR and The Los Angeles Times (6 July 2000), and at "Bone Voyage" at Snopes.com (4 September 2007)
4. Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it. -- As quoted in "Hey Rush, when it comes to sports ... shhh!" by Mike Freeman at CBS SportsLine (27 January 2007)
5. The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies. -- As quoted in Flush Rush Quarterly (January 1993) and in "Limbaugh : A Color Man Who Has A Problem With Color?" by Jeff Cohen and Steve Rendall in FAIR and The Los Angeles Times (6 July 2000), and in "Off Sides" by Michael Tomasky in The American Prospect (16 July 2003)
6. They're 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares? -- Of African-Americans, as quoted in "Limbaugh Brings Baggage with his ESPN Blabber" by Derrick Z. Jackson inThe Boston Globe (16 July 2003), and "Colorblind football fans know Rush is wrong" by Richard Roeper in Chicago Sun-Times (1 October 2003) 7. Take that bone out of your nose and call me back (to an African American female caller). -- Response to a black caller he was having a hard time understanding in the 1970s when he worked under the name "Jeff Christie" on a top-40 music program in Pittsburgh, as quoted in Newsday (8 October 1990) where he expresses some remorse at having said it; also in The Way Things Aren't : Rush Limbaugh's Reign of Error (1995) by Steve Rendall, Jim Naureckas, and Jeff Cohen [ISBN 156584260X] , "Limbaugh : A Color Man Who Has A Problem With Color?" by Jeff Cohen and Steve Rendall in FAIR and The Los Angeles Times (6 July 2000), and "Bone Voyage" at Snopes.com (4 September 2007)
8. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. -- As quoted in "Dittohead Blues" in the LA Weekly (9 October 2003)
9. Limbaugh attacks on Obama. Limbaugh has called Obama a 'halfrican American.' -- On the January 24 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, host Rush Limbaugh referred to Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) and actress Halle Berry as "Halfrican American[s]," stating that "Barack Obama has picked up another endorsement: Halfrican American actress Halle Berry." Limbaugh then said: " 'As a Halfrican American, I am honored to have Ms. Berry's support, as well as the support of other Halfrican Americans,' Obama said." Limbaugh then conceded

Blackstone
07-17-2010, 01:48 PM
Now, those are very good examples, Blackstone!

I actually don't have a negative perception about the UNCF. Perhaps the negatives perceived of the NAACP has to do with its association with some high-profile headlines & Sharpton and Jackson.

I think the big problem is that some people decided to appoint Sharpton and Jackson as the official leaders and spokespersons representatives for black people (some of it may have been self promotion as well). That is not the case. Sharpton has done some good things (voter registration drives, community activist, etc.), but he comes off as being more interested self promotion than fighting legitimate causes. Likewise Jackson made some significant contributions, but I lost respect for him after his “hymie town” comments. I think that showed him for what he was. His comment about Obama, criticizing him for "acting like he's white" only served to solidify my opinion of him.

Gerry Clinchy
07-17-2010, 05:23 PM
I think the big problem is that some people decided to appoint Sharpton and Jackson as the official leaders and spokespersons representatives for black people (some of it may have been self promotion as well). That is not the case. Sharpton has done some good things (voter registration drives, community activist, etc.), but he comes off as being more interested self promotion than fighting legitimate causes. Likewise Jackson made some significant contributions, but I lost respect for him after his “hymie town” comments. I think that showed him for what he was. His comment about Obama, criticizing him for "acting like he's white" only served to solidify my opinion of him.

Corruption of ideals and egotism do not discriminate:cool:

YardleyLabs
07-17-2010, 05:47 PM
What seems to get missed is that Fox News itself has been the primary force in promoting Sharpton as a black leader. No other news outlet allows him such freedom in spewing his message. Why do they do this? Because it serves their broader agenda to have the most idiotic spokespeople possible for minority rights to assist in radicalizing their target audience. Sharpton, like his alter ego Don King, will do anything for the publicity and recognition he craves.

david gibson
07-17-2010, 06:36 PM
What seems to get missed is that Fox News itself has been the primary force in promoting Sharpton as a black leader. No other news outlet allows him such freedom in spewing his message. Why do they do this? Because it serves their broader agenda to have the most idiotic spokespeople possible for minority rights to assist in radicalizing their target audience. Sharpton, like his alter ego Don King, will do anything for the publicity and recognition he craves.

wow...this is golden. so you are saying that no one other that FoxNews cares what al sharpton has to say?

then where does he get his money? certainly not from fox news.....

YardleyLabs
07-17-2010, 07:06 PM
It would be hard to trace all the sources for his finances. He charges $20-100,000 as a speaker's fee, which I doubt is being paid by too many storefront churches. He pulled several hundred t housand out of donations to his presidential campaign for persona expenditures and was fined by the FEC, but not by as much as he gained. Several hundred thousand was donated by a Connecticut investment group to help pay pay off an IRS demand for underpaid taxes. He is a regular, and I assume paid guest on the O'Reilly Factor and other Fox properties. Earlier in his career he appears to have profited from his association with Don King, Like Pat Buchanan and other demagogues, he makes money from many different sources, whether by promoting a cause or failing to oppose it.

luvmylabs23139
07-17-2010, 08:50 PM
It would be hard to trace all the sources for his finances. He charges $20-100,000 as a speaker's fee, which I doubt is being paid by too many storefront churches. He pulled several hundred t housand out of donations to his presidential campaign for persona expenditures and was fined by the FEC, but not by as much as he gained. Several hundred thousand was donated by a Connecticut investment group to help pay pay off an IRS demand for underpaid taxes. He is a regular, and I assume paid guest on the O'Reilly Factor and other Fox properties. Earlier in his career he appears to have profited from his association with Don King, Like Pat Buchanan and other demagogues, he makes money from many different sources, whether by promoting a cause or failing to oppose it.

It is well known that he makes most of his money by laundering drug money, but it is ignored because of course he is who he is.

kb27_99
07-17-2010, 09:24 PM
You are correct. However, you only seem concerned about the reverse discrimination. My point was, if you deal with root problem, all the problems that resulted from it will go away on their own. In other words, cure the disease, and the resulting symptoms will go away.

Ok i will clarify,


What is the root problem?

What are the problems that are cause by the root problem?


Better?

road kill
07-18-2010, 05:22 AM
Perhaps you do not think these are racist quotes either.

Enjoy RK

Rush's Most Racist Comments
1. Regarding slavery: We didn't have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I'm not saying we should bring it back; I'm just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark -- (Dave Zirin; The Nation 10/9/09)
2. You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed. -- As quoted in 101 People who are REALLY Screwing Up America (2006) by Jack Huberman
3. Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson? -- As quoted in "Limbaugh : A Color Man Who Has A Problem With Color?" by Jeff Cohen and Steve Rendall in FAIR and The Los Angeles Times (6 July 2000), and at "Bone Voyage" at Snopes.com (4 September 2007)
4. Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it. -- As quoted in "Hey Rush, when it comes to sports ... shhh!" by Mike Freeman at CBS SportsLine (27 January 2007)
5. The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies. -- As quoted in Flush Rush Quarterly (January 1993) and in "Limbaugh : A Color Man Who Has A Problem With Color?" by Jeff Cohen and Steve Rendall in FAIR and The Los Angeles Times (6 July 2000), and in "Off Sides" by Michael Tomasky in The American Prospect (16 July 2003)
6. They're 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares? -- Of African-Americans, as quoted in "Limbaugh Brings Baggage with his ESPN Blabber" by Derrick Z. Jackson inThe Boston Globe (16 July 2003), and "Colorblind football fans know Rush is wrong" by Richard Roeper in Chicago Sun-Times (1 October 2003) 7. Take that bone out of your nose and call me back (to an African American female caller). -- Response to a black caller he was having a hard time understanding in the 1970s when he worked under the name "Jeff Christie" on a top-40 music program in Pittsburgh, as quoted in Newsday (8 October 1990) where he expresses some remorse at having said it; also in The Way Things Aren't : Rush Limbaugh's Reign of Error (1995) by Steve Rendall, Jim Naureckas, and Jeff Cohen [ISBN 156584260X] , "Limbaugh : A Color Man Who Has A Problem With Color?" by Jeff Cohen and Steve Rendall in FAIR and The Los Angeles Times (6 July 2000), and "Bone Voyage" at Snopes.com (4 September 2007)
8. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. -- As quoted in "Dittohead Blues" in the LA Weekly (9 October 2003)
9. Limbaugh attacks on Obama. Limbaugh has called Obama a 'halfrican American.' -- On the January 24 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, host Rush Limbaugh referred to Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) and actress Halle Berry as "Halfrican American[s]," stating that "Barack Obama has picked up another endorsement: Halfrican American actress Halle Berry." Limbaugh then said: " 'As a Halfrican American, I am honored to have Ms. Berry's support, as well as the support of other Halfrican Americans,' Obama said." Limbaugh then conceded

WOOPS, my bad Roger, I thought we were talking about "Racism in the Tea Party!!"

Read the title of the thread.:rolleyes:




rk

david gibson
07-18-2010, 08:50 AM
.................................

8. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. -- As quoted in "Dittohead Blues" in the LA Weekly (9 October 2003)
9. Limbaugh attacks on Obama. Limbaugh has called Obama a 'halfrican American.' -- On the January 24 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, host Rush Limbaugh referred to Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) and actress Halle Berry as "Halfrican American[s]," stating that "Barack Obama has picked up another endorsement: Halfrican American actress Halle Berry." Limbaugh then said: " 'As a Halfrican American, I am honored to have Ms. Berry's support, as well as the support of other Halfrican Americans,' Obama said." Limbaugh then conceded

besides the fact that these are rush quotes and you are going to be biased against anything he says, and regardless of the merits - what is racist in these last 2 quotes? "halfrican american" is pretty cute, nice play on words. nothing racial. i would venture to say that if i white person had coined the term "african american" do describe people of african decent they would have been called racist.

YardleyLabs
07-18-2010, 09:05 AM
besides the fact that these are rush quotes and you are going to be biased against anything he says, and regardless of the merits - what is racist in these last 2 quotes? "halfrican american" is pretty cute, nice play on words. nothing racial. i would venture to say that if i white person had coined the term "african american" do describe people of african decent they would have been called racist.
I'm not sure that I would call Rush a racist at all. He is worse. He is a professional race baiter and all of the quotes are examples of how he plies his trade to earn $30 million per year entertaining people who would like to blame their insecurities and failures on preferential treatment of blacks. Racialism is clearly a major attraction bringing people to the tea party movement. The most prominent racist posters seen at these rallies are not painted by individuals, but mass-produced. There are those who love to excuse the posters as examples of ironic humor. Of course, those are the same people who would be outraged by posters showing Hannity or O'Reilly in KKK garb.

http://www.newsnet14.com/images/home_care.jpg


http://www.ionlinephilippines.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/obama-joker-poster-los-angeles.jpg

david gibson
07-18-2010, 09:54 AM
i dont see racism in the above. obama has kenyan heritage - 50%, so dressing him up in kenyan witchdoctor garb to showcase his absurd obamacare is not necessarily racist. doing this to any other black person could certainly be seen as racist if there are no direct connections and one is simply trying to belittle them to their long removed heritage in a demeaning manor.

and the joker?? how is that racist to do it to O but it wasnt racist to do it to W? the joker was a white man, remember? so its racist to compare O to an undesireable black person and its racist to compare him to an undesireable white person as well. wtf?? its becoming clearer and clearer that just opposing him is racist to you.

the majority of tea party people are not racist just because we oppose O and everything he stands for, but you try to make it sound that way. we would love someone with conservative values like Bill Cosby as president. last time i checked he was black.

and of course we would be offended in you showed hannity or oreilly in kkk garb. there is no connection in their past to the kkk, and what blatantly racist things have they said or done? just because they oppose O doesnt mean they are racist. neither has made any of the boneheaded comments like rush has.

you are resurrecting McCarthyism. anyone who doesnt agree with you is racist. you really need to rethink this. there is a difference between racism and insulting (insultingism? lol)

gman0046
07-18-2010, 10:39 AM
Yardley, if those pictures bother you, there's a lot more on the internet you'd consider worse.

YardleyLabs
07-18-2010, 11:02 AM
Yardley, if those pictures bother you, there's a lot more on the internet you'd consider worse.
I agree. Bigotry is alive and well, and seems, based on David's comments, to even be gaining respectability on the right.

kb27_99 asked "What is the root problem?" The root problem is that we continue, 150 years following the emancipation proclamation, to live in a country where the color of a person's skin is one of the best predictors of economic performance. The right would like to attribute this entirely to a lack of personal efforts and attacks any programs designed to change this situation as racist. There are others who would love to say differences are entirely attributable to racism. I believe the real answer lies somewhere in between. However, we will appropriately continue to be described as a racist country until color is no more important than religion or national origin in predicting economic performance.

By the way David, Hannity and O'Reilly are both whites. KKK members are all whites. That gives them as much a connection to the KKK as Obama has to a charicature of an African witch doctor. Maybe you would feel better if they were portrayed as IRA bombers or pedophile priests. The joker picture of Obama is clearly a play on the black face minstrel performers used to mock blacks and the message is that Obama is a black man trying to pretend to be white and failing miserably. Both images are blatantly racist, and just as inflammatory as would be the KKK or bomber or pedophile examples I mentioned above.

david gibson
07-18-2010, 12:29 PM
I agree. Bigotry is alive and well, and seems, based on David's comments, to even be gaining respectability on the right.

that is your opinion. you better be real careful what you say here, sir, you are bordering on slander and libel.


kb27_99 asked "What is the root problem?" The root problem is that we continue, 150 years following the emancipation proclamation, to live in a country where the color of a person's skin is one of the best predictors of economic performance. The right would like to attribute this entirely to a lack of personal efforts and attacks any programs designed to change this situation as racist. There are others who would love to say differences are entirely attributable to racism. I believe the real answer lies somewhere in between. However, we will appropriately continue to be described as a racist country until color is no more important than religion or national origin in predicting economic performance.

By the way David, Hannity and O'Reilly are both whites. KKK members are all whites. That gives them as much a connection to the KKK as Obama has to a charicature of an African witch doctor. Maybe you would feel better if they were portrayed as IRA bombers or pedophile priests. The joker picture of Obama is clearly a play on the black face minstrel performers used to mock blacks and the message is that Obama is a black man trying to pretend to be white and failing miserably. Both images are blatantly racist, and just as inflammatory as would be the KKK or bomber or pedophile examples I mentioned above.

then what was it when the same picture was done to bush? the left was mocking W as a comparison to blackface minstrel shows??? the picture was done to obama in the exact same manner as done to bush - thats why it is not racist. its a movie character named "the joker", a villain. thats it.

i am totally honest when i say that obama being black doesnt mean a hill of beans to me or most others, tea party people as well. its his background, lack of experience, ultra left leaning agendas and ideas that we detest. we like Condi Rice and Powell, remember? you cant be a selective racist, its excluded by definition.

insult is not racism. but you far leftist O koolaid drinkers point the racist finger at anything and anyone that is not in favor of Obama and thats just flat wrong. your kkk analogy is so flawed its not funny. show proof that either one of hannity or o'reilleys parents were in the kkk and you might have an argument. in fact, it is racist as hell. you are assuming any white that doesnt like obama as having ties to the klan. that, my friend, is also racism. but of course you will never understand that because you are too busy pointing your finger at everyone else.

like i said, depicting any other black man as such could very well be racist, but obama is half african and its about health care - insulting and insensitive, probably so, but that doesnt make it racist. it is nothing but direct satire.


here is heath ledger as the joker - note his white face. it was only applied to obama to match this character, not to invoke blackface minstrel make up. get over it.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a4cf9f8b970b-500wi


its satire, you cannot protect the president from satire and satire does not equal racism.

YardleyLabs
07-18-2010, 12:41 PM
I don't think anyone would ever confuse the Vanity Fair cover of Bush with a mijstrel black face. It is far from the same picture:

http://blog.vanityfair.com/online/politics/Bush-the-Joker002-copy%5B1%5D.jpg
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/african-american-art/minstrel.jpg
I have actually stated in this forum that I believe that, at a personal level, Bush was one of the least racially biased Presidents in our nation's history, and I have never equated opposition to Obama with racism. I do believe that incessant efforts to characterize Obama administration policies as racially motivated when those same policies have been followed and supported in prior white administrations is part of an effort to use race prejudicially.

david gibson
07-18-2010, 07:12 PM
are you serious? you compare those two????

you need help.

david gibson
07-18-2010, 07:24 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a4cf9f8b970b-500wi

http://www.ionlinephilippines.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/obama-joker-poster-los-angeles.jpg


sorry dude, the two pics above say it all. satire on the joker. thats it. no minstrel show, no blackface.

and even the Bush pic you posted has a white face subsurface.

pathetic for you to grasp at straws. blame everyone else, do nothing for yourself. thats the O mantra, and you are a sucker for falling for it.

heres another for you haunt your dreams tonight:

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/51500/Joker-Bush--51902.jpg

YardleyLabs
07-18-2010, 08:06 PM
I would have to say, from my perspective, that those who cannot see the what is wrong with both of the anti-Obama posters are a part of the problem in race relations in this country. The same people who view these posters as OK seem also to be the first to play the race card themselves in attacking liberals generally and the administration for what they view as reverse racism.

When I was a kid, almost all of the people supporting our system of legal segregation were nice people. They considered segregation normal and natural. Some -- maybe most -- of the local ministers believed it was ordained by God. Those people were shocked when they were called racist and believed the whole problem was from blacks and liberals who simply wanted to move too fast instead of allowing changes to happen slowly over time.

Our country has come a long way since then, but still not far enough. We are still "adjusting" 150 years after then end of slavery. How long will it be before color is irrelevant to opportunity and success?. It has not been that long since I was told I could not hire a black woman that I wanted for a management position because our clients would not accept her and it would be too hard to fire her if things didn't work out because of all those "affirmative action" rules.

Doc E
07-18-2010, 08:21 PM
My ancestry is Swedish ------- I would have NO PROBLEM being depicted as a Viking.
I certainly wouldn't consider it racial profiling in any way.



.

Franco
07-18-2010, 08:35 PM
I've seen the Obama witchdoctor photo before. I never considered it racist. It is satire making fun at Obama's Healthcare bill. It's his healthcare bill and it was shoved down America's throat. The Dems never even read the freaking bill. So guess what? People made fun of him!

david gibson
07-18-2010, 08:46 PM
I would have to say, from my perspective, that those who cannot see the world exactly as i do are obviously racists.



thats a little closer to reality.

M&K's Retrievers
07-18-2010, 09:13 PM
I've seen the Obama witchdoctor photo before. I never considered it racist. It is satire making fun at Obama's Healthcare bill. It's his healthcare bill and it was shoved down America's throat. The Dems never even read the freaking bill. So guess what? People made fun of him!

Agree. Liberals are a little too touchy.

david gibson
07-18-2010, 10:02 PM
I've seen the Obama witchdoctor photo before. I never considered it racist. It is satire making fun at Obama's Healthcare bill. It's his healthcare bill and it was shoved down America's throat. The Dems never even read the freaking bill. So guess what? People made fun of him!

oh franco, dont you see? that just means you are a racist too.

one cannot oppose the O and not be a racist. you are racist even if you use his own given middle name - so you just cant win.

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 07:47 AM
It has not been that long since I was told I could not hire a black woman that I wanted for a management position it would be too hard to fire her if things didn't work out because of all those "affirmative action" rules.


There is a ton of truth to that statement. It was in the late 80's and early 90's nearly impossible to fire a black woman without getting a lawsuit regardless of cause. A company had to spend a ton of money to defend a legit termination.
Even worse was the fact that courts allowed BS lawsuits to go forward. Many claims were settled only because it was cheaper to pay some money on a BS claim than continue to fight the claim, which only continues the cycle.:confused:

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 08:30 AM
You are correct. However, you only seem concerned about the reverse discrimination. My point was, if you deal with root problem, all the problems that resulted from it will go away on their own. In other words, cure the disease, and the resulting symptoms will go away.

Here's the deal. Anyone who has working knowledge of reverse discrimination (hire X not the best person, forget the temp you just taught our computer system to, here is a pile of resumes from minorities, you will pick one of them rather than the 55 yr old white woman you just taught our system to to do your old job). That is pile of crap.
I was young and really didn't give a crap so I threw the pile of resumes at the HR fool and told them to pound sand and do it themselves.
Needles to say when they dumped my really good temp and sent me an illegal border jumper with broken English that got amnisty to train, lets just say I needed to do my new job not teach a border jumper to do the entire job not the computer sysytem.
I told the damn border jumper she was on her own and to pound sand!!!:D:D:D

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 09:04 AM
There is a ton of truth to that statement. It was in the late 80's and early 90's nearly impossible to fire a black woman without getting a lawsuit regardless of cause. A company had to spend a ton of money to defend a legit termination.
Even worse was the fact that courts allowed BS lawsuits to go forward. Many claims were settled only because it was cheaper to pay some money on a BS claim than continue to fight the claim, which only continues the cycle.:confused:
I would have to say that we (one of the largest professional service firms in the world) failed to hire many minorities, blaming the our decisions on problems with affirmative action rules. However, we also never hired minorities in the absence of those rules. We were never sued even once for discrimination for someone we terminated. Women made up the majority of our college hires, but somehow never made it to Partner. Happily, we were one of the first in our industry to change that pattern of discrimination, although it was still an issue into the 1990's.

Discrimination on race and ethnicity remains rampant, although there has been improvement over the last 10+ years. The affirmative action a excuse is simply a variation on the excuses that have been used for years: "Our clients won't like it"; "They won't be comfortable here"; etc. When I bought my own consulting company, all of our employees were white or black (we had an excellent record there), and almost all were Christian. All or our recruiters were white or black Christians. Jews and Asians never seemed to make it past the first interview. After numerous discussions of this led no where, I finally hired a new recruiting director who was an Indian Hindu woman. Our pattern of hiring changed immediately and our business grew. This is a pattern I have seen over and over. Discrimination only ends through conscious, deliberate effort. That is not reverse discrimination; it is a deliberate program to end discrimination. Obviously the primary beneficiaries will be those previously victimized. Ending discrimination, however, can never legitimately be equated with maintaining a discriminatory status quo.

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 09:20 AM
I would have to say that we (one of the largest professional service firms in the world) failed to hire many minorities, blaming the our decisions on problems with affirmative action rules. However, we also never hired minorities in the absence of those rules. We were never sued even once for discrimination for someone we terminated. Women made up the majority of our college hires, but somehow never made it to Partner. Happily, we were one of the first in our industry to change that pattern of discrimination, although it was still an issue into the 1990's.

Discrimination on race and ethnicity remains rampant, although there has been improvement over the last 10+ years. The affirmative action a excuse is simply a variation on the excuses that have been used for years: "Our clients won't like it"; "They won't be comfortable here"; etc. When I bought my own consulting company, all of our employees were white or black (we had an excellent record there), and almost all were Christian. All or our recruiters were white or black Christians. Jews and Asians never seemed to make it past the first interview. After numerous discussions of this led no where, I finally hired a new recruiting director who was an Indian Hindu woman. Our pattern of hiring changed immediately and our business grew. This is a pattern I have seen over and over. Discrimination only ends through conscious, deliberate effort. That is not reverse discrimination; it is a deliberate program to end discrimination. Obviously the primary beneficiaries will be those previously victimized. Ending discrimination, however, can never legitimately be equated with maintaining a discriminatory status quo.

Here is a great example of a BS lawsuit that was allowed to go thru the courts.
I have first hand knowledge as I had the supena for payroll records in my hand.
The person (a hispanic) lost their job during layoffs. The layoff was based on Union senority and bumping. In simple terms the person was layed off because they were low man on the totem pole. Their employee # and their grade level were obvious proof of this, yet the company had a choice. Spend money defending a layoff based on a union contract or pay less to settle a bs claim. This should have been tossed the day it was filed. The company did fight and win but it would have been cheaper to settle. They only faught and paid lawyers money because they had to defend the Union. What a pile of crap.
That fool should have had to pay all of the corps expenses.

Roger Perry
07-19-2010, 09:39 AM
WOOPS, my bad Roger, I thought we were talking about "Racism in the Tea Party!!"

Read the title of the thread.:rolleyes:




rk

Rush Limbaugh is the number one supporter of the Tea Party therefore his comments are relevent.

Rush Limbaugh gives Tea Partiers their marching orders: 'No Third Party' (http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/rush-limbaugh-gives-tea-partiers-their)

By John Amato Thursday Feb 04, 2010 3:00pm

gman0046
07-19-2010, 09:44 AM
As a hiring official for the Federal Government I've seen affirmative action up front and personal. It's been proven affirmative action doesn't work. How can it when the most qualified person doesn't get the job? All it does is set the minority up for failure and it causes discourse in qualified employees. Many job postings all but say white males need not apply. Its not just the Federal Government, affirmative action is alive and well in the private sector as well.. A fiend of mine just took early retirement from American Airlines because he was a white male and less qualified minorities were being promoted over qualified white males. The fear of not being able to dismiss a minority for poor performance or even theft in the Federal Government is not going to happen. It's almost impossible to dismiss a minority. Dismissing white males, not a problem. If anyone thinks there is not a quota system or that hiring officials are not rewarded for minority hiring your dreaming. Over the years even sports teams have been chastised for not having enough minority coaches or front office personnel. Like at the University of Kentucky Basketball Team who hired Tubby Smith a black who after nine years of failing to produce they were about to fire him when he left on his own accord, they were called racist when they went out and hired a white coach and for letting Smith go. What organization would give an individual nine years to produce? A classic example of affirmative action gone bad.

gman0046
07-19-2010, 09:49 AM
Interesting that Joe Biden yesterday came out and stated he didn't believe the Tea Party was racist.

Gerry Clinchy
07-19-2010, 10:13 AM
Today in NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/us/19panther.html?th=&adxnnl=1&emc=th&adxnnlx=1279551629-47oLBrjN5Np9vqHhPiPrrA

Someone mentioned that the NBP are of very small membership, but they are not limited to Philadelphia according to this article.

There are still injustices with regard to race, but it would appear that law enforcement is acting responsibly.

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 10:31 AM
As a hiring official for the Federal Government I've seen affirmative action up front and personal. It's been proven affirmative action doesn't work. How can it when the most qualified person doesn't get the job? All it does is set the minority up for failure and it causes discourse in qualified employees. Many job postings all but say white males need not apply. Its not just the Federal Government, affirmative action is alive and well in the private sector as well.. A fiend of mine just took early retirement from American Airlines because he was a white male and less qualified minorities were being promoted over qualified white males. The fear of not being able to dismiss a minority for poor performance or even theft in the Federal Government is not going to happen. It's almost impossible to dismiss a minority. Dismissing white males, not a problem. If anyone thinks there is not a quota system or that hiring officials are not rewarded for minority hiring your dreaming. Over the years even sports teams have been chastised for not having enough minority coaches or front office personnel. Like at the University of Kentucky Basketball Team who hired Tubby Smith a black who after nine years of failing to produce they were about to fire him when he left on his own accord, they were called racist when they went out and hired a white coach and for letting Smith go. What organization would give an individual nine years to produce? A classic example of affirmative action gone bad.
GMAN is correct. This crap goes on in private corps for more than one reason but a major reason it happens is that if you want a gov't contract at least back when I was dealing with it you had to have a certain % of your workforce be minorities,
Hire minorities regardless of qualifications or not get the contract.
The gov't forces companies to hire based on race.

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 10:33 AM
My ancestry is Swedish ------- I would have NO PROBLEM being depicted as a Viking.
I certainly wouldn't consider it racial profiling in any way.



.
No need to worry. Your ancestry is from one of those groups that has always been viewed favorably by America's xenophobes. Other than blacks, the Irish were the first real victims of America's ethnic attacks. Editorial cartoons attacked the Irish as papists, drunks and beggars. While an exaggeration even then, the following cartoon captured their status in America in the late 19th century.

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/omalley/120/alien/harpers.jpg

20 years later, the tables had turned and the emphasis shifted to efforts to prevent/reduce immigration from the "weaker" races of eastern and southern Europe, particularly the Poles, the Sicilians, and similarly weak racial groups threatening the American way of life. These waves of immigration started around the turn of the century and the anti-immigration bills of the 1920's deliberately pegged immigration quotas to the number of people here based on country of origin in 1890 to produce smaller quotas for eastern and southern Europe and larger ones for northern Europe. Somehow, Africa was never counted as a country of origin. In fact, the laws pretty much prohibited persons of color, though the primary target was the Chinese. Much of the prejudice against Eastern Europeans was tied up with related antisemitism. Italians and others were simply viewed as the criminal classes as shown in this 1903 cartoon
:

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/modlang/carasi/cartoons/anti.italian02.jpg

While overt anti-Italian prejudice had largely subsided by the mid-20th century, the continued Mafia stereotyping remained strong enough that the Italian-American Civil Rights League in 1970 to combat these negative stereotypes.

Ironic humor has always been one of the weapons for reinforcing ethnic stereotypes. That doesn't make it less racist. Why wasn't Hilary's face placed on the body of an caricature of an African witch doctor? Race is an integral part of the "humor" of the posters in question and is being used to reinforce what are viewed as negative stereotypes.

oh franco, dont you see? that just means you are a racist too.

one cannot oppose the O and not be a racist. you are racist even if you use his own given middle name - so you just cant win.
David, you keep implying that I am guilty of equating opposition to Obama with racism. I would love to see your examples.

Hoosier
07-19-2010, 10:43 AM
The left will never let the race issue go. They use racism as an all encompassing trump card, and it has now lost its effect. There for a while everyone was walking on eggshells, afraid of being labeled racist, only to realize that if your opinion wasn't extreme left, you were going to be labeled that way no matter what you said. It is now getting to the point that we've all been called a racist in one way or another so many times that we no longer care, and most people know it's BS 99% of the time.

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 10:43 AM
GMAN is correct. This crap goes on in private corps for more than one reason but a major reason it happens is that if you want a gov't contract at least back when I was dealing with it you had to have a certain % of your workforce be minorities,
Hire minorities regardless of qualifications or not get the contract.
The gov't forces companies to hire based on race.
Actually, the requirement for government contracts has typically been based on a percentage of the work going to "disadvantaged" businesses which are defined as those owned primarily by women or minorities. Many of these companies are related companies for the primary contractor while others are participants in programs for disadvantaged companies. Most of the latter go out of business as soon as they "graduate" from the Federal program. There is little to no evidence that ownership by women or minorities results in increased female and minority employment. Many, if not most, of the companies are shams. Some are set up by tranditional, white-owned prime contractors who retain 49% of the minority owned business, and others are husband-wife teams where the wife is the majority owner. The requirements with respect to actual employment are much less rigorous. Generally they require you to provide explanations of why your actual employment has a disproportionately low representation of minorities (as almost all do). In those cases where employment is disproportionately low, you are required to provide a plan for increasing minority participation and to provide reports of your efforts. You are not actually required to improve the situation and very few companies do.

gman0046
07-19-2010, 10:49 AM
Yardley, you missed your calling. You should be a spokesperson for the NAACP. Why do you feel the need to defend them?

Franco
07-19-2010, 10:58 AM
The left will never let the race issue go. They use racism as an all encompassing trump card, and it has now lost its effect. There for a while everyone was walking on eggshells, afraid of being labeled racist, only to realize that if your opinion wasn't extreme left, you were going to be labeled that way no matter what you said. It is now getting to the point that we've all been called a racist in one way or another so many times that we no longer care, and most people know it's BS 99% of the time.

I agree, it is thier way of intimidating those that don't agree with them.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/race_roils_tea_party_movement.html

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 11:07 AM
Actually, the requirement for government contracts has typically been based on a percentage of the work going to "disadvantaged" businesses which are defined as those owned primarily by women or minorities. Many of these companies are related companies for the primary contractor while others are participants in programs for disadvantaged companies. Most of the latter go out of business as soon as they "graduate" from the Federal program. There is little to no evidence that ownership by women or minorities results in increased female and minority employment. Many, if not most, of the companies are shams. Some are set up by tranditional, white-owned prime contractors who retain 49% of the minority owned business, and others are husband-wife teams where the wife is the majority owner. The requirements with respect to actual employment are much less rigorous. Generally they require you to provide explanations of why your actual employment has a disproportionately low representation of minorities (as almost all do). In those cases where employment is disproportionately low, you are required to provide a plan for increasing minority participation and to provide reports of your efforts. You are not actually required to improve the situation and very few companies do.
Anything that requires a company to defend their workforce is a pile of BS.
I worked for a company that had to defend their workforce because we didn't have enough of the gooberments minorities even though we employed a large # of employes who were considered refugies by the feds.
These employees had employment and immigration status as "refuges". But guess what, they were white so we were still in the gooberments crap house.
AS a corp they would have had less hassle employing an unqualified person if they were black or hispanic VS hiring a qualified refugy that was white.
It was nice to work for a private foreign owned co that told them to pound sand!:razz::razz::razz:

david gibson
07-19-2010, 11:09 AM
Ironic humor has always been one of the weapons for reinforcing ethnic stereotypes. That doesn't make it less racist. Why wasn't Hilary's face placed on the body of an caricature of an African witch doctor? Race is an integral part of the "humor" of the posters in question and is being used to reinforce what are viewed as negative stereotypes.

David, you keep implying that I am guilty of equating opposition to Obama with racism. I would love to see your examples.

because she isnt 1/2 direct african/kenyan ancestry. their is no historical examples of arkansas witchdoctors. you could photoshop here as "Dr. Ganny" from Beverly Hillbillies and it would be a direct analogy. until you understand that i have nothing to discuss with you.

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 11:37 AM
"graduate" In those cases where employment is disproportionately low, you are required to provide a plan for increasing minority participation and to provide reports of your efforts. You are not actually required to improve the situation and very few companies do.


Why should a workforce have to be based on a racial #? That is the problem. If the number is wrong per the gov't telling you to hire who they want you have to fix it. BUT why do you have to change things to fit a number rather than hire the best candidate at the time of hiring. Or even more, why if you have 2 equal candidates should you be "forced" to hire the minority candidate?
SCREW THIS CRAP!!!!! WHITES HAVE BEEN F*&** OUT OF JOBS FOR YEARS BY THE GOV"T FORCING A MINORITY HIRING!!!!!!!!

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 11:52 AM
Yardley, you missed your calling. You should be a spokesperson for the NAACP. Why do you feel the need to defend them?
Why do you feel the need to attack? This is actually the most aggressive thing they have done in years. They have been largely abandoned by both black and white supporters because they seem lost in the 1960's.

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 11:57 AM
Why should a workforce have to be based on a racial #? That is the problem. If the number is wrong per the gov't telling you to hire who they want you have to fix it. BUT why do you have to change things to fit a number rather than hire the best candidate at the time of hiring. Or even more, why if you have 2 equal candidates should you be "forced" to hire the minority candidate?
SCREW THIS CRAP!!!!! WHITES HAVE BEEN F*&** OUT OF JOBS FOR YEARS BY THE GOV"T FORCING A MINORITY HIRING!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure I understand. Are claiming that whites are suffering lower wages and higher unemployment than minorities? Or are you saying they deserve to have higher salaries and lower unemployment? Do whites have better or worse access to high quality educational resources? Are the informal hiring networks used by most employers more likely to produce candidates of the same or different color from those doing the hiring? From my perspective, our objective as a country should be to provide opportunities for success that available comparably to all without regard to religion, color or gender. When that happens, let the cards fall where they will.

gman0046
07-19-2010, 11:58 AM
Yardley nobody's attacking you. You just happen to be the only person on this site that looks as if they are representing the NAACP.

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 12:01 PM
Yardley nobody's attacking you. You just happen to be the only person on this site that looks as if they are representing the NAACP.
I never took anything as a personal attack. I meant why did you feel the need to attack the NAACP.

gman0046
07-19-2010, 12:02 PM
He probably was pointing out the fact they are a racist organization.

Hoosier
07-19-2010, 12:30 PM
I'm not sure I understand. Are claiming that whites are suffering lower wages and higher unemployment than minorities? Or are you saying they deserve to have higher salaries and lower unemployment? Do whites have better or worse access to high quality educational resources? Are the informal hiring networks used by most employers more likely to produce candidates of the same or different color from those doing the hiring? From my perspective, our objective as a country should be to provide opportunities for success that available comparably to all without regard to religion, color or gender. When that happens, let the cards fall where they will.

We already have it, but it's not taken advantage of equally. As a matter of fact, we have a system that provides more access to minorities. The problem lies in the home, and in a system that doesn't seem to understand that you can throw every bit of money we have at some people, and it will not educate them, if they don't want to learn and resent the folks that are trying to help.

Until those who have been in generational poverty change the way they think, nothing will change.

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 12:49 PM
Today in NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/us/19panther.html?th=&adxnnl=1&emc=th&adxnnlx=1279551629-47oLBrjN5Np9vqHhPiPrrA

Someone mentioned that the NBP are of very small membership, but they are not limited to Philadelphia according to this article.

There are still injustices with regard to race, but it would appear that law enforcement is acting responsibly.
Actually Gerry, I said the NBPP has a very small membership and that the two men in the Philadelphia video may have represented their entire membership in Philly. The highest estimate I have seen for Philly is eight members. Since the incident at the poll, the Philly chapter was closed. I suspect that the NBPP membership is much smaller than the membership of the KKK and that using it as an example of black or liberal thinking is equivalent to using the KKK as an example of white or conservative thinking. That is, it is not relevant to anything at all. Obviously, hate organizations will try to tie their wagons to anything they can to get publicity.

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 12:57 PM
We already have it, but it's not taken advantage of equally. As a matter of fact, we have a system that provides more access to minorities. The problem lies in the home, and in a system that doesn't seem to understand that you can throw every bit of money we have at some people, and it will not educate them, if they don't want to learn and resent the folks that are trying to help.

Until those who have been in generational poverty change the way they think, nothing will change.
I don't know how things are around you, but around me educational opportunities are not even close to being equal. Philadelphia schools, which are responsible for educating the overwhelming majority of blacks in the region, have budgets per student that are less than half of the budgets in my school district even though Philadelphia income and property tax rates are higher. We are simply richer. Our teachers are paid twice as much with better working conditions. Our school facilities are in better shape and are better able to support modern education. Across the country, the primary source of educational funding is local taxes. Income segregation makes it so that poorer districts, which actually require more resources to achieve comparable results, end up with weaker school systems and less opportunity for graduates as a result.

Gerry Clinchy
07-19-2010, 01:00 PM
Actually Gerry, I said the NBPP has a very small membership and that the two men in the Philadelphia video may have represented their entire membership in Philly. The highest estimate I have seen for Philly is eight members. Since the incident at the poll, the Philly chapter was closed. I suspect that the NBPP membership is much smaller than the membership of the KKK and that using it as an example of black or liberal thinking is equivalent to using the KKK as an example of white or conservative thinking. That is, it is not relevant to anything at all. Obviously, hate organizations will try to tie their wagons to anything they can to get publicity.

I do not believe that I mentioned anywhere in my post that the NBPP was an example of black or liberal thinking ... I simply pointed to the fact that the NBPP was of larger scope than the impression given by the size of its Philly chapter.

Hoosier
07-19-2010, 01:15 PM
I don't know how things are around you, but around me educational opportunities are not even close to being equal. Philadelphia schools, which are responsible for educating the overwhelming majority of blacks in the region, have budgets per student that are less than half of the budgets in my school district even though Philadelphia income and property tax rates are higher. We are simply richer. Our teachers are paid twice as much with better working conditions. Our school facilities are in better shape and are better able to support modern education. Across the country, the primary source of educational funding is local taxes. Income segregation makes it so that poorer districts, which actually require more resources to achieve comparable results, end up with weaker school systems and less opportunity for graduates as a result.

I don't have time to look for it right now, but three or for years ago the Pioneer Press from St.Paul published the amount spent per student in MN. Minneapolis spent something like $15,000 per student, St.Paul around $10,000 or $11,000 and the suburb I live in around $6500. The money does not stay local in this state. We also distribute State compensatory funding based solely on the % of students who qualify for free and reduced lunch and title 1 funding is based on the same criteria. Since our district has a low % of free and reduced we do not qualify for that funding. As a matter of fact, when my daughter needed a reading tutor, I had to pay for private services, because our district didn't qualify for the funding to pay for it. This in effect forced us into private school. Had we not been able to afford the private tutor and school we'd be SOL.

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 01:33 PM
I don't have time to look for it right now, but three or for years ago the Pioneer Press from St.Paul published the amount spent per student in MN. Minneapolis spent something like $15,000 per student, St.Paul around $10,000 or $11,000 and the suburb I live in around $6500. The money does not stay local in this state. We also distribute State compensatory funding based solely on the % of students who qualify for free and reduced lunch and title 1 funding is based on the same criteria. Since our district has a low % of free and reduced we do not qualify for that funding. As a matter of fact, when my daughter needed a reading tutor, I had to pay for private services, because our district didn't qualify for the funding to pay for it. This in effect forced us into private school. Had we not been able to afford the private tutor and school we'd be SOL.
Minnesota definitely has some of the better schools (my sister and her family live in St Paul). Here Philadelphia ranks 60th out of 64 districts in the region.The situation is worse if you focus on teaching costs since the Philadelphia system has much higher costs for facilities maintenance and security as well as other administrative costs.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 02:08 PM
Corruption of ideals and egotism do not discriminate:cool:

I agree completely.

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 02:26 PM
I'm not sure I understand. Are claiming that whites are suffering lower wages and higher unemployment than minorities? Or are you saying they deserve to have higher salaries and lower unemployment? Do whites have better or worse access to high quality educational resources? Are the informal hiring networks used by most employers more likely to produce candidates of the same or different color from those doing the hiring? From my perspective, our objective as a country should be to provide opportunities for success that available comparably to all without regard to religion, color or gender. When that happens, let the cards fall where they will.


I'm saying they were denied jobs in favor of minorities and it is a fact. I can site many examples where a position was to be filled only by a minority.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 03:27 PM
There is a ton of truth to that statement. It was in the late 80's and early 90's nearly impossible to fire a black woman without getting a lawsuit regardless of cause. A company had to spend a ton of money to defend a legit termination.
Even worse was the fact that courts allowed BS lawsuits to go forward. Many claims were settled only because it was cheaper to pay some money on a BS claim than continue to fight the claim, which only continues the cycle.:confused:

So, what you are saying is that black people were not routinely fired based race, and that most firings were legitimate? You have but to look at some fairly recent EEOC filings to see the fallacy in that:

2009: Albertsons, LLC grocery chain agreed to pay $8.9 million to settle 3 employment discrimination lawsuits filed by the EEOC. Albertsons was charged with race, color, and national origin discrimination and retaliation at its Aurora, Colo. distribution center.

The 1st case was filed in 2006 and alleged a pattern or practice of workplace harassment and discrimination based on race, color and national origin. Minority employees were repeatedly subjected to derogatory comments and graffiti. Blacks were termed “n-----s” and Hispanics termed “s---s,” among other offensive epithets. The offensive graffiti included racial and ethnic slurs, depictions of lynchings, swastikas, and white supremacist and anti-immigrant statements. According to the EEOC, managers were aware of, and even participated in, the harassment and discrimination.

The 2nd lawsuit, filed in 2008, alleged a pattern or practice of retaliation. The EEOC alleged that dozens of employees complained about the discriminatory treatment and harassment and were subsequently given the harder job assignments, were passed over for promotion, and even fired as retaliation.

The 3rd case, also filed in 2008, and alleged race discrimination on behalf of a single African American employee at the distribution center who was terminated.

May 2009: An Illinois construction company agreed to pay $630,000 to settle a class action race discrimination suit, alleging that it laid off Black employees after they had worked for the company for short periods of time, but retained White employees for long-term employment.

August 2008: A tobacco retail chain agreed to pay $425,000 and provide other relief to settle a race discrimination lawsuit on behalf of qualified black workers who were denied promotion to management positions.

July 2008: A Chicago-based leading chemical manufacturer paid $175,000 to settle a class race discrimination and retaliation lawsuit filed by the EEOC. According to the lawsuit, a class of African American employees had been subjected to race discrimination, racial harassment, retaliation, and termination for complaining about the misconduct.

October 2007: A trial court determined that EEOC is entitled to a trial on its claim that a Toyota car dealership engaged in a wholesale elimination of Blacks in management when it demoted and ultimately terminated all of its African American managers because of their race.

Now, you may think these companies only settled because it was cheaper, but the fact is, most only settled because they could not defend their actions. If they lost in a court trial the settlement would have been much, much more costly. Also, by settling, they do not have to admit guilt, thereby retaining some modicum of their reputation.

This is but a small sample of the cases filed by the EEOC. It doesn’t even include cases filed privately by individuals

Hoosier
07-19-2010, 03:33 PM
[QUOTE=YardleyLabs;647407]Minnesota definitely has some of the better schools (my sister and her family live in St Paul). Here Philadelphia ranks 60th out of 64 districts in the region.The situation is worse if you focus on teaching costs since the Philadelphia system has much higher costs for facilities maintenance and security as well as other administrative costs.[/QUOTE

Unless you live in an area that doesn't get the State Compensatory and Title 1 funding. All of St.Paul gets it. My area does not; we just get the tax burden and very few benefits. This forces you into private if you can afford it. I believe they want to force people who can afford it to go private, so they can collect their taxes and then spend the money on less students.

Hoosier
07-19-2010, 03:40 PM
So, what you are saying is that black people were not routinely fired based race, and that most firings were legitimate? You have but to look at some fairly recent EEOC filings to see the fallacy in that:

2009: Albertsons, LLC grocery chain agreed to pay $8.9 million to settle 3 employment discrimination lawsuits filed by the EEOC. Albertsons was charged with race, color, and national origin discrimination and retaliation at its Aurora, Colo. distribution center.

The 1st case was filed in 2006 and alleged a pattern or practice of workplace harassment and discrimination based on race, color and national origin. Minority employees were repeatedly subjected to derogatory comments and graffiti. Blacks were termed “n-----s” and Hispanics termed “s---s,” among other offensive epithets. The offensive graffiti included racial and ethnic slurs, depictions of lynchings, swastikas, and white supremacist and anti-immigrant statements. According to the EEOC, managers were aware of, and even participated in, the harassment and discrimination.

The 2nd lawsuit, filed in 2008, alleged a pattern or practice of retaliation. The EEOC alleged that dozens of employees complained about the discriminatory treatment and harassment and were subsequently given the harder job assignments, were passed over for promotion, and even fired as retaliation.

The 3rd case, also filed in 2008, and alleged race discrimination on behalf of a single African American employee at the distribution center who was terminated.

May 2009: An Illinois construction company agreed to pay $630,000 to settle a class action race discrimination suit, alleging that it laid off Black employees after they had worked for the company for short periods of time, but retained White employees for long-term employment.

August 2008: A tobacco retail chain agreed to pay $425,000 and provide other relief to settle a race discrimination lawsuit on behalf of qualified black workers who were denied promotion to management positions.

July 2008: A Chicago-based leading chemical manufacturer paid $175,000 to settle a class race discrimination and retaliation lawsuit filed by the EEOC. According to the lawsuit, a class of African American employees had been subjected to race discrimination, racial harassment, retaliation, and termination for complaining about the misconduct.

October 2007: A trial court determined that EEOC is entitled to a trial on its claim that a Toyota car dealership engaged in a wholesale elimination of Blacks in management when it demoted and ultimately terminated all of its African American managers because of their race.

Now, you may think these companies only settled because it was cheaper, but the fact is, most only settled because they could not defend their actions. If they lost in a court trial the settlement would have been much, much more costly. Also, by settling, they do not have to admit guilt, thereby retaining some modicum of their reputation.

This is but a small sample of the cases filed by the EEOC. It doesn’t even include cases filed privately by individuals

Could also be that a higher % of blacks come from a culture of generational poverty and cradle to grave entitlements, and as such are not taught a good work ethic at a young age. That is something that would not be reflected in those numbers.

kb27_99
07-19-2010, 03:40 PM
I am subjected to discrimination on a daily basis, I wonder if EEOC will take my case? Humm ......probably not

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 03:51 PM
There was a federal law passed during the Clinton administration that required all EEOC claims to go to mediation before they could go directly to a court trial.
The result was that many claims were settled in mediation because companies were better off than paying lawyers to do twice the work.

gman0046
07-19-2010, 04:14 PM
Blackstone, could you please list some more examples? Or are those listed are all you have?

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 04:24 PM
Here's the deal. Anyone who has working knowledge of reverse discrimination (hire X not the best person, forget the temp you just taught our computer system to, here is a pile of resumes from minorities, you will pick one of them rather than the 55 yr old white woman you just taught our system to to do your old job). That is pile of crap.
I was young and really didn't give a crap so I threw the pile of resumes at the HR fool and told them to pound sand and do it themselves.
Needles to say when they dumped my really good temp and sent me an illegal border jumper with broken English that got amnisty to train, lets just say I needed to do my new job not teach a border jumper to do the entire job not the computer sysytem.
I told the damn border jumper she was on her own and to pound sand!!!:D:D:D

Again, you are focusing on a case of “reverse discrimination” rather than the practice of discrimination against minorities in hiring and promotion that led to affirmative action. I don’t know what company or entity you worked for, but chances are, before they implemented their affirmative action plan, that pile of minority resumes you threw at the “HR fool”, would have been thrown in the trash instead, and never been given any consideration. And, considering your “border jumper” depiction and how you treated her, it’s apparent there needed to be a change in the culture of that business.

Since you are citing personal experiences, I have one for you. I had worked for a company for about 20 months as a temporary employee. This was not like the temp jobs now. I actually worked for the company, but didn’t qualify for benefits or vacation. Doing a good job as a temp was generally considered to be the best way to get hired in permanently.

I was the only black person in the dept. There had been a black woman in there a couple of years earlier, but after she charged the supervisor with making racially disparaging comments about her, he tried to fire her in retaliation. She got an attorney, and the company settled, giving her a little money and a new job in a different department. But, that’s another story.

A job opening came up in my department, and everyone thought I was a shoe-in. They hired a white woman that had only been a temp for about 5 months. Everyone, including me, was shocked. Then I was told by another employee that the supervisor (yep, the same one from above) had remarked that he would never hire a black person because they were slow and lazy. Upon hearing that, I decided to go to HR to find out what criteria was used to make the hiring decision. At first, they wouldn’t talk to me, but eventually they told me their hiring decision was based on performance, and that I had never been considered for the job because of my performance. I worked in a production environment, so there were quantifiable production records. A friend that worked in the office copied those records for me. They showed that the best day’s production of the woman they hired did not match my worst production day in 20 months. I went to the VP of HR armed with the records, and told him what had happened, and threatened to sue. Within 3 weeks, they miraculously found a job for me that they “had been considering me for all along.” Funny how that worked.

luvmylabs23139
07-19-2010, 04:32 PM
. And, considering your “border jumper” depiction and how you treated her, it’s apparent there needed to be a change in the culture of that business.


.

THe person was a border jumper! They came here illegally from Columbia.
Yes I personally have a huge issue with people who violate immigration laws.
There is a legal process to follow to come to the USA. I happen to be one of those that moved here from another country following the letter of the law.
I had a green card before I ever stepped foot in this country.
Those of us that follow the law will always depise border jumpers.

gman0046
07-19-2010, 05:08 PM
Blackstone, great job using your race to attain a promotion. Congratulations, that would have never worked for me.

Nor_Cal_Angler
07-19-2010, 06:22 PM
So, what you are saying is that black people were not routinely fired based race, and that most firings were legitimate? You have but to look at some fairly recent EEOC filings to see the fallacy in that:

2009: Albertsons, LLC grocery chain agreed to pay $8.9 million to settle 3 employment discrimination lawsuits filed by the EEOC. Albertsons was charged with race, color, and national origin discrimination and retaliation at its Aurora, Colo. distribution center.

The 1st case was filed in 2006 and alleged a pattern or practice of workplace harassment and discrimination based on race, color and national origin. Minority employees were repeatedly subjected to derogatory comments and graffiti. Blacks were termed “n-----s” and Hispanics termed “s---s,” among other offensive epithets. The offensive graffiti included racial and ethnic slurs, depictions of lynchings, swastikas, and white supremacist and anti-immigrant statements. According to the EEOC, managers were aware of, and even participated in, the harassment and discrimination.

The 2nd lawsuit, filed in 2008, alleged a pattern or practice of retaliation. The EEOC alleged that dozens of employees complained about the discriminatory treatment and harassment and were subsequently given the harder job assignments, were passed over for promotion, and even fired as retaliation.

The 3rd case, also filed in 2008, and alleged race discrimination on behalf of a single African American employee at the distribution center who was terminated.

May 2009: An Illinois construction company agreed to pay $630,000 to settle a class action race discrimination suit, alleging that it laid off Black employees after they had worked for the company for short periods of time, but retained White employees for long-term employment.

August 2008: A tobacco retail chain agreed to pay $425,000 and provide other relief to settle a race discrimination lawsuit on behalf of qualified black workers who were denied promotion to management positions.

July 2008: A Chicago-based leading chemical manufacturer paid $175,000 to settle a class race discrimination and retaliation lawsuit filed by the EEOC. According to the lawsuit, a class of African American employees had been subjected to race discrimination, racial harassment, retaliation, and termination for complaining about the misconduct.

October 2007: A trial court determined that EEOC is entitled to a trial on its claim that a Toyota car dealership engaged in a wholesale elimination of Blacks in management when it demoted and ultimately terminated all of its African American managers because of their race.

Now, you may think these companies only settled because it was cheaper, but the fact is, most only settled because they could not defend their actions. If they lost in a court trial the settlement would have been much, much more costly. Also, by settling, they do not have to admit guilt, thereby retaining some modicum of their reputation.

This is but a small sample of the cases filed by the EEOC. It doesn’t even include cases filed privately by individuals


Dont see an "Equal Oppertunity" case involving a white as the plaintiff.....just saying...

EQUAL has different meanings if your white these days...



I am subjected to discrimination on a daily basis, I wonder if EEOC will take my case? Humm ......probably not

you have an "Equal" chance as a snow ball in hell........

NCA

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 06:23 PM
Could also be that a higher % of blacks come from a culture of generational poverty and cradle to grave entitlements, and as such are not taught a good work ethic at a young age. That is something that would not be reflected in those numbers.
If a company can document a case based on performance, there is no discrimination. It is actually pretty difficult to win a discrimination case and the money for legal fees and discovery costs tend to be mostly on the side of defendants (at my firm, where we earned huge amounts for litigation support, our policy was to never represent plaintiffs). Most prosecutions can only go forward with the support of the DoJ. However, in 2001 the DoJ virtually abandoned all efforts to prevent employment discrimination against minorities. Prior to then, famous cases included Texaco, which settled in 1996 after secret tape recordings of executive meetings were published by the NY Times where executives were heard using racial epithets ad conspiring to destroy evidence requested by plaintiffs. It is probable that the racial epithets were never used, but that the plans concerning evidence destruction were real.

More recently a class action law suit against Abercrombie & Fitch was settled for $50 million plus a consent decree under which the company agreed to institute new policies governing hiring and promotions to eliminate a persistent pattern of discrimination against minorities and women. This was interesting in that part of their practices had been to do much of their recruiting through certain college fraternities and sororities that somehow almost never produced minority candidates. In 2007, FedEx settled a class action suit by paying $55 million in damages and agreeing to policies to end discrimination against black and Hispanic employees in hiring and promotions.

Some of the biggest employment discrimination suits -- primarily involving pay and promotion discrimination -- are actually based on discrimination against women. WalMart faces a 1,000,000 employee class action suit. Originally filed nine years ago, this has now been certified as a class action suit. WalMart plans an appeal to the Supreme Court. Best Buy similarly faces a major class action law suit for discriminatory pay patterns in pay for women.

None of this is new and none of it is surprising. Discrimination is not uncommon. Proving it is extremely expensive and takes years. Discrimination in smaller companies, such as what existed in my consulting company before I purchased it in 1996, is almost never prosecuted because it is simply not worth the cost to pursue.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 06:25 PM
As a hiring official for the Federal Government I've seen affirmative action up front and personal. It's been proven affirmative action doesn't work. How can it when the most qualified person doesn't get the job? All it does is set the minority up for failure and it causes discourse in qualified employees. Many job postings all but say white males need not apply.

So, as a hiring official for the Fed. Gov., are you going tell me there were never discriminatory hiring & promotion practices based on race or ethnicity for Gov. jobs where minorities were excluded prior to affirmative action being implemented?


Its not just the Federal Government, affirmative action is alive and well in the private sector as well.. A fiend of mine just took early retirement from American Airlines because he was a white male and less qualified minorities were being promoted over qualified white males.

Can’t say what happened to your friend at AA. His claim may be true, but just like some minorities unjustly use claims of racial discrimination as an excuse for why they didn’t get ahead, some whites use affirmative action the same way.


Over the years even sports teams have been chastised for not having enough minority coaches or front office personnel. Like at the University of Kentucky Basketball Team who hired Tubby Smith a black who after nine years of failing to produce they were about to fire him when he left on his own accord, they were called racist when they went out and hired a white coach and for letting Smith go. What organization would give an individual nine years to produce? A classic example of affirmative action gone bad.

Tuby Smith was assistant coach under Rick Pitino, which is a pretty good place to get the needed experience. Smith’s record as head coach at Kansas was 263–83 record for a winning percentage of .760. He had one national championship in 1998, a perfect 16–0 regular season conference record in 2003 (as well as being named national AP Coach of the Year), 5 SEC regular season championships (1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2005) and 5 SEC Tournament titles (1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004), with 6 Sweet Sixteen finishes and four Elite Eight finishes (1998, 1999, 2003, 2005) in his nine seasons after the 1998 championship. He totaled 100 wins quicker than any other Wildcat coach except Adolph Rupp, reaching the plateau in 130 games. In fact he is one of only 5 head coaches to win 365 games in 15 seasons or less. His only shortfall at Kansas was that he failed to get his team into the Final Four, and Kansas fans couldn’t accept that. That being said, Kansas has not made the Final 4 since Smith left, and has only had 1 Elite 8 appearance. Yeah, sounds like affirmative action gone bad to me too.

Now, I never heard anyone accuse Kentucky of being racist when they brought in a white coach. Maybe you have it confused with when Adolph Rupp was coaching Kentucky. He was famous for his racist rants:

According to Sports Illustrated writer Frank Deford, "He said, 'You've got to beat those coons, ' and "He turned to (center) Thad Jaracz. 'You go after that big coon.'” That was during 1/2 time of the game where TX Western, with an all black starting team, beat Kentucky for the national title.

According to Harry Lancaster, Rupp’s assistant, Rupp said after a meeting with Dr. John Oswald, Kentucky’s President at the time, "Harry, that son of a bitch is ordering me to get some niggers in here. What am I going to do ? He's the boss."

Now, that’s affirmative action for you!

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 06:29 PM
Dont see an "Equal Oppertunity" case involving a white as the plaintiff.....just saying...

EQUAL has different meanings if your white these days...




you have an "Equal" chance as a snow ball in hell........

NCA
Reverse discrimination is also against the law. However, as with all discrimination cases, you have to base your case on one of two things: overt, proven acts of discrimination, or a statistically provable case of discriminatory outcomes. If a clear statistical case case be demonstrated, the employer must them provide evidence that the discriminatory outcome was the product of legitimate, non-discriminatory actions. If no statistical case can be made, ther burden of proof lies with the plaintiff. There are not very many cases where anyone has ever shown a clear statistical case of reverse discrimination.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 06:36 PM
David, you keep implying that I am guilty of equating opposition to Obama with racism. I would love to see your examples.

It’s funny, but I rarely have heard a liberal accusing the right of being racist because they oppose Obama. I usually hear the right accusing the left of accusing them of being racist for opposing Obama. I guess if they keep saying it, it will eventually be true.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 06:47 PM
He probably was pointing out the fact they are a racist organization.

That actuation has been made several times on this forum, yet no one has presented any evidence racist acts committed, or racist statements made, by the NAACP. If you have something that substantiates your claim, please provide it.

road kill
07-19-2010, 06:55 PM
That actuation has been made several times on this forum, yet no one has presented any evidence racist acts committed, or racist statements made, by the NAACP. If you have something that substantiates your claim, please provide it.
Sorry Blackstone;

http://www.breitbart.tv/video-proof-the-naacp-awards-racism/


Splain, or should I go to one of my own???





rk

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 07:14 PM
Sorry Blackstone;

http://www.breitbart.tv/video-proof-the-naacp-awards-racism/


Splain, or should I go to one of my own???





rk
It should definitely be interesting. The USDA has a long history of discriminating against minority farmers -- refusing them loas granted routinely to white farmers, or processing their claims so slowly that they were forced into bankruptcy. A settlement was reached under which it was agreed, in 1999, that those harmed by this systematic discrimination would receive $1 billion in compensatory damages. However, no payments were ever made. Such discrimination is unacceptable regardless of the color of those involved. The 1999 case should be closed and damages paid and anyone repeating similar things now should be fired.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 07:40 PM
Could also be that a higher % of blacks come from a culture of generational poverty and cradle to grave entitlements, and as such are not taught a good work ethic at a young age. That is something that would not be reflected in those numbers.

I was not aware you knew the cultural backgrounds of the people involved in those cases. :rolleyes: Or, and you just making the assumption that most blacks come from a culture of generational poverty and cradle to grave entitlements? I have found myself in similar circumstances, and that's not the culture I came from.

If it could have been shown that the workers in these cases in those cases were poor performers on their jobs, don't you think the defendants would have used that proof to win those cases or have them dismissed? Isn't that what attorneys do. But, that's not what happened, so logically, you have to conclude there was no evidence of that.

So, what you’re saying is the racial epithets, graffiti, racial slurs, retaliation & racial harassment cited in those cases were all the result of this culture of generational poverty and cradle to grave entitlements that blacks enjoy. :rolleyes: To me, it sounds more like they were the result of a culture of generational and cradle to grave racism.

There are also a number of cases based on discriminatory hiring practices. I guess they could just look at those blacks that were applying, and see they didn't have a good work ethic, so there was no need to hire them. :rolleyes:

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 07:42 PM
I am subjected to discrimination on a daily basis, I wonder if EEOC will take my case? Humm ......probably not

As far as I know, the EEOC does not discriminate based on race. They take all kinds of cases. If you are being discriminated against on a daily basis, I would suggest you give them a call.

kb27_99
07-19-2010, 07:47 PM
If it could have been shown that the workers in these cases in those cases were poor performers on their jobs, don't you think the defendants would have used that proof to win those cases or have them dismissed? Isn't that what attorneys do. But, that's not what happened, so logically, you have to conclude there was no evidence of that.





Nope they won't touch the case even if they had a chance to win. The discrimination laws are so lopsided on minority’s behalf the companies have the deer in the head light look every time discrimination is mentioned.

gman0046
07-19-2010, 08:14 PM
Road Kill, Ms. Sherrod affirmed just what I've been telling you as a Federal Government Management employee. She stated to the NAACP black employees cannot get fired. I'm not sure she's totally right because I think shooting someone may be a firing offense.

YardleyLabs
07-19-2010, 08:20 PM
Nope they won't touch the case even if they had a chance to win. The discrimination laws are so lopsided on minority’s behalf the companies have the deer in the head light look every time discrimination is mentioned.
I'm not sure where you are getting that information. There are things for which discrimination laws offer no protection. Thus, if you are under the age of 45, you may be discriminated against based on age. You may be discriminated against for physical characteristics as long as those characteristics are not the result of a disability. You could even be discriminated against because of tattoos or body piercings. However, the law does not permit discrimination based on race, age (if you are over 45), national origin, disability (unless justified by job requirements), gender (unless justified by job needs), or sexual orientation (in some states). That is true whether you are white, black, or purple with pink polka dots.

The problem is that standards of proof are very high. The chances of winning are very low regardless of color. I was sued for $1 million for discrimination in terminating a black, 64 year old woman six months before she vested her pension rights. It was a long, painful, and expensive process for all involved, but she never had a chance of winning. A white male friend of mine was fired without notice after he discovered that his boss was involved in embezzling funds. He reported it to his boss with a copy to his boss's boss (the chairman of the board). It happened that both were involved. My friend consulted an attorney and was told he had no leg to stand on since no laws prevent termination under these conditions.

The law always favors employers in employment decisions, as it should. However, if you can prove a pattern of discrimination based on race, your odds of winning go up dramatically. If you cannot show a pattern, you will need concrete proof of discriminatory acts. No hearsay, no "my buddy's all agree", etc. The presumption of the law is that employers may make hiring decisions, promotion decisions, termination decisions, or compensation decisions on any grounds they wish, and there is absolutely no requirement that those decisions be fair (The exception is for termination for cause). Civil service laws, civil rights laws, union contracts, and similar documents are exceptions to this legal presumption and tend to be interpreted very narrowly.

kb27_99
07-19-2010, 08:53 PM
Fortunately for me Jeff I think a monkey makes more since then you most of the time. ;-)

Hoosier
07-19-2010, 08:53 PM
I was not aware you knew the cultural backgrounds of the people involved in those cases. :rolleyes: Or, and you just making the assumption that most blacks come from a culture of generational poverty and cradle to grave entitlements? I have found myself in similar circumstances, and that's not the culture I came from.

If it could have been shown that the workers in these cases in those cases were poor performers on their jobs, don't you think the defendants would have used that proof to win those cases or have them dismissed? Isn't that what attorneys do. But, that's not what happened, so logically, you have to conclude there was no evidence of that.

So, what you’re saying is the racial epithets, graffiti, racial slurs, retaliation & racial harassment cited in those cases were all the result of this culture of generational poverty and cradle to grave entitlements that blacks enjoy. :rolleyes: To me, it sounds more like they were the result of a culture of generational and cradle to grave racism.

There are also a number of cases based on discriminatory hiring practices. I guess they could just look at those blacks that were applying, and see they didn't have a good work ethic, so there was no need to hire them. :rolleyes:

My post "higher % of blacks" your misrepresentation of what I said in bold. It's amazing how you can change a couple of words and change the meaning of someones post.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 09:22 PM
There was a federal law passed during the Clinton administration that required all EEOC claims to go to mediation before they could go directly to a court trial.
The result was that many claims were settled in mediation because companies were better off than paying lawyers to do twice the work.

Actually, there is no law requiring mediation. The EEOC's mediation program is completely voluntary. Both parties have to agree to participate in the process. The EEOC offers it as an alternative to a lengthy and costly investigation of a claim. If the mediation is unsuccessful, the EEOC will investigate the charge to determine if it warrents legal action.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 09:26 PM
Blackstone, could you please list some more examples? Or are those listed are all you have?

There are plenty more. You can look them up if you're really that interested.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 09:35 PM
THe person was a border jumper! They came here illegally from Columbia.
Yes I personally have a huge issue with people who violate immigration laws.
There is a legal process to follow to come to the USA. I happen to be one of those that moved here from another country following the letter of the law.
I had a green card before I ever stepped foot in this country.
Those of us that follow the law will always depise border jumpers.

Hmmm . . . this is the first time you even bothered to refer to her as a person. :rolleyes:

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 09:48 PM
Blackstone, great job using your race to attain a promotion. Congratulations, that would have never worked for me.

How in the world did you come to that conclusion based on what I wrote? Did you actually read it? First, it wasn’t a promotion. It was a job I applied for. Second, I did not use race to get hired. To the contrary, race was used to deny me the position. I presented documentation that proved I was the better, more productive worker. And, I had a witness that was in the room when the supervisor made the statement that he would not hire a black person as the reason I wasn’t hired. That would have stood up in a court of law, which is why they felt it was better to hire me than to have me sue them.

It would have worked for you if you had the kind of evidence I had.

Henry V
07-19-2010, 10:02 PM
Blackstone, great job using your race to attain a promotion. Congratulations, that would have never worked for me.

Are you kidding me? WTF. Where did this come from based on the account presented? Perhaps you should read what was written and then edit your post again. Something like" Great job sticking up for yourself and documenting that someone had unfairly been granted a position"

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 10:14 PM
Road Kill, Ms. Sherrod affirmed just what I've been telling you as a Federal Government Management employee. She stated to the NAACP black employees cannot get fired. I'm not sure she's totally right because I think shooting someone may be a firing offense.

You need to listen to what she said again. She never said anything like that. She never said black employees cannot get fired. She said, there are job in the USDA, and often there are no people of color to fill those jobs. She went on to say, "And, you've heard of a lot of layoffs. Have you heard of anyone in the Federal Government losing their job?" I'm going to climb out on a limb here, but I think there are still some white people in the Fed. Gov.

Hew
07-19-2010, 10:38 PM
How in the world did you come to that conclusion based on what I wrote? Did you actually read it? First, it wasn’t a promotion. It was a job I applied for. Second, I did not use race to get hired. To the contrary, race was used to deny me the position. I presented documentation that proved I was the better, more productive worker. And, I had a witness that was in the room when the supervisor made the statement that he would not hire a black person as the reason I wasn’t hired. That would have stood up in a court of law, which is why they felt it was better to hire me than to have me sue them.

It would have worked for you if you had the kind of evidence I had.
I feel bad that you felt compelled to respond to that buffoonery. Next time just pat him on his protective hockey helmet, give him a cookie and remind him that the grown ups are trying to have a conversation.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 10:46 PM
Dont see an "Equal Oppertunity" case involving a white as the plaintiff.....just saying...

EQUAL has different meanings if your white these days...




you have an "Equal" chance as a snow ball in hell........

NCA

While it’s true there are many more EEOC cases where minorities have discriminated against than cases where whites have been discriminated against, here are a couple for you so you don’t feel left out. If you want more, you’ll have to do your own research.

July 2007: EEOC received a favorable jury verdict in its lawsuit against the Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Company (A&P) alleging that a Black senior manager terminated a White manager because of his race. The jury concluded the White manager was discharged solely because of his race and awarded approximately $85,000 in monetary relief.

February 2005: EEOC settled a retaliation case against Burger King for $65,000, on behalf of a Caucasian manager who was terminated after refusing to comply with a Black customer’s preference that a “white boy” not make her sandwich.

I guess snowballs do have a chance in hell after all!

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 10:53 PM
Nope they won't touch the case even if they had a chance to win. The discrimination laws are so lopsided on minority’s behalf the companies have the deer in the head light look every time discrimination is mentioned.

There are cases on the books where the EEOC has successfully tried or settled cases where whites have been discriminated against. I cited a couple for NCA. There are more if you look for them.

The laws are not as lopsided as you may think.

Blackstone
07-19-2010, 11:04 PM
My post "higher % of blacks" your misrepresentation of what I said in bold. It's amazing how you can change a couple of words and change the meaning of someones post.

Okay, I changed "higher % of blacks" to "most blacks". If that is not what you meant, I apologize. Regardless, it does not give any validity to your argument, which is the point I was getting at.

kb27_99
07-20-2010, 12:25 AM
The laws are not as lopsided as you may think.

That is your opinion. By reading some of your other post, your mind set doesn't surprise me.

kb27_99
07-20-2010, 12:50 AM
There are cases on the books where the EEOC has successfully tried or settled cases where whites have been discriminated against. I cited a couple for NCA. There are more if you look for them.

The laws are not as lopsided as you may think.


Africa Reparations Movement
Brief Summary - Homepage of the Africa Reparations Movement. Besides seeking reparations for the enslavement of African people in Africa and in the African Diaspora, they are campaigning for an accurate portrayal of African history and thus restore the dignity and self-respect to all people of African descent.



ACORN
Brief Summary - The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, ACORN was formed in 1970 when a group of Arkansas welfare mothers formed ACORN's first membership. ACORN is a grassroots, multi-issue community organization that operates in 26 states. Working together in affiliated neighborhood groups, ACORN Community organizers fight for increased voter registration, better education and health care, environmental justice and wide ranging neighborhood improvements.


Blacks in Government
Brief Summary - Blacks in Government, BIG, was organized in 1975 as a non-profit organization to help Black civil servants.



Black Geeks Online
Brief Summary - "Black Geeks Online is an Internet-based community organization that connects people of color from around the world. Our purpose is to share our talents and time to promote computer literacy and educate others about the power and potential of Internet technology."


Black Graduate Engineering & Science Students
Brief Summary - Dedicated to the recruitment & retention of Black graduate students at the University of California at Berkeley.


Black Graduate Students Association
Brief Summary - Black Graduate Student Association at Stanford University.


Circle Association
Brief Summary - A group of African American men practicing, and dedicated to, the quality of life, successful manhood and parenting, economic growth and development, and the pursuit of excellence and spiritual development.


Congressional Black Caucus Foundation
Brief Summary - "The Congressional Black Caucus Foundation, Inc. (CBCF) was established in 1976 as a non-partisan, non-profit, public policy, research and educational institute. As envisioned by its founders, the CBCF's mission is to assist the leaders of today, while helping to prepare a new generation of leaders for the future. To that end, the CBCF has worked to broaden and elevate the influence of African Americans in the political, legislative and public policy arenas."


DIEEOC
Brief Summary - Dayton Intergovernment Equal Employment Opportunity Council, DIEEOC, plays a significant role in the development and implementation of affirmative action projects and programs in the Dayton Ohio area.




IHRAAM
Brief Summary - "The International Human Rights Association of American Minorities (IHRAAM) was founded in 1985 at The Hague Academy of International Law in the Netherlands by African American students. It was incorporated in 1988 in Chicago, 1996 in London, and 1997 in Canada, with a view to facilitating individuals' and groups' awareness of international law, particularly as it relates to human rights."


JAFA
Brief Summary - Japan African-American Friendship Association, JAFA, promotes cultural and educational awarenss regarding Black culture to Japanese. It also promotes trade relations through diologue and research.


Malcolm X Institute For Black Studies
Brief Summary - This student organization at Wabash College lists as its objective the promotion of educational, cultural, and social programs of concern to the citizens of the Wabash & Crawfordsville communities, particularly Black citizens.


NAACP
Brief Summary - Homepage for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. The following are a few of the Chapter web pages:


NAACP - Eugene/Springfield Oregon Branch
NAACP - Los Angeles Chapter



National Association of Black Journalists
Brief Summary - The largest media organization of people of color in the world.


National Bar Association
Brief Summary - The nation's largest and oldest association of African American lawyers, judges, and law students.



National Black Child Development Institute
Brief Summary - An organization with a mission ""to improve and protect the Quality of Life of African American Children and Families."



National Technical Association
Brief Summary - "A professional association of scientists and engineers committed to ensuring that minorities, women, & youth in particular, will be skilled enough in the sciences to be architects of technology required of the work force 2000 and beyond."



NCIMED
Brief Summary - The North Carolina Institute of Minority Economic Development, NCIMED, is a major minority organization involving Historically Black Colleges in North Carolina.



Single African American Fathers' Exchange
Brief Summary - A common sense approach to parenting oriented towards the single African American father. Their website provides information, tips, articles and other information designed to enhance the parenting experience for single African American men.




Ku Klux Klan: We all know this group is infamous for hiding behind white sheets and burning crosses. This is the oldest and first hate/terrorist group of America. The SPLC lists its current membership at around 5000. That’s a drop in the bucket. There are less of them than the people they hate (thank god). They were against Reconstruction, European immigration around the WW1 era, and the Civil Rights Era. Their hatred has always been against blacks, Jews, Catholics, immigrants and today abortionists and homosexuals are added to their list. In the 1970s, David Duke tried to sell the Klan as an intellectual movement and simply a ‘pro white group’, even though his Klan believed in the same hatred and violence that they did in the past.

National Alliance: This group has a website to. They sell swastikas, and other white supremacist propaganda. National Alliance strongly believes in Hitler’s fascist racist government and claim that Jews control the media.

Christian Identity: This is a white supremacist form of Christianity. They believe whites are God’s chosen people and that the last tribe of Israel was Europeans. They also advocate death for race traitors, interracial dating/marriage, homosexuality and abortion. The SPLC lists their current membership at around 30 people. They believe their will be a race war in which ‘god’ will help them wipe out Jews and non-whites. I know this is obviously not the view of mainstream Christianity. They don't represent true Christinaity anymore than Al Queda represents true Islam.


Black Panther Party: This was probably one of the most violently racist black groups. It was founded in 1966 and they sold their organization as one that promoted self-help and keeping drugs out of the black communities, but they developed the ‘don’t need whitey’s help’ attitude. On the one hand, they advocated personal responsibility, while at the same time; they espouse racial hatred and separatism. Like white hate groups, such as the KKK, they try to mainstream their racial agenda. The original Panthers combined militant Black Nationalism with Marxism and advocated black empowerment and self-defense, often through confrontation. The only difference between them and the Nation of Islam is they don’t really have a religious element to it.




Until we stop indorsing organizations like the ones above there will always be race issues in this country.

YardleyLabs
07-20-2010, 04:56 AM
THe person was a border jumper! They came here illegally from Columbia.
Yes I personally have a huge issue with people who violate immigration laws.
There is a legal process to follow to come to the USA. I happen to be one of those that moved here from another country following the letter of the law.
I had a green card before I ever stepped foot in this country.
Those of us that follow the law will always depise border jumpers.



Here's the deal. Anyone who has working knowledge of reverse discrimination (hire X not the best person, forget the temp you just taught our computer system to, here is a pile of resumes from minorities, you will pick one of them rather than the 55 yr old white woman you just taught our system to to do your old job). That is pile of crap.
I was young and really didn't give a crap so I threw the pile of resumes at the HR fool and told them to pound sand and do it themselves.
Needles to say when they dumped my really good temp and sent me an illegal border jumper with broken English that got amnisty to train, lets just say I needed to do my new job not teach a border jumper to do the entire job not the computer sysytem.
I told the damn border jumper she was on her own and to pound sand!!
From your description of the incident, you deserved to be disciplined. You were in a position where a temp was hired to perform the job while a permanent candidate was recruited. You trained the temp. Human resources proceeded to do its job of identifying candidates for a permanent position. You refused to participate. You have only given two facts that may or may not be related to why you refused: the temp you wanted hired was a 55 year old white woman, and the resumes that HR provided were all for minorities. Once a replacement was hired, you refused to train her as you were asked to do, setting her up for failure. Why? Once again you provide us two reasons: You had already trained another person, and the person they hired was an "illegal border jumper" who didn't deserve to be there. Of course, later we learn that the person had been granted amnesty and was therefore fully legal whether you like it or not. Your supervisor clearly failed by not confronting you on your actions at the time. At best, you disrupted the operation of the organization by your failures to do your job. You acted in a manner that gave the appearance of bias against minorities, whether that was your intention or not, and that undermined the ability of a new employee to fulfill her responsibilities, even though none of the events leading to your frustration with HR had anything to do with the new employee. The new employee only tried to get a new job. She didn't make the decision concerning the temp you liked, and she didn't decide whether she or one of the others in the pile would be hired. In my world, which has included both governmental and private organizations, you would have either corrected your behavior from the beginning, or you would have been unemployed.

YardleyLabs
07-20-2010, 05:06 AM
.....
Blacks in Government
Brief Summary - Blacks in Government, BIG, was organized in 1975 as a non-profit organization to help Black civil servants.



Black Geeks Online
Brief Summary - "Black Geeks Online is an Internet-based community organization that connects people of color from around the world. Our purpose is to share our talents and time to promote computer literacy and educate others about the power and potential of Internet technology."


Black Graduate Engineering & Science Students
Brief Summary - Dedicated to the recruitment & retention of Black graduate students at the University of California at Berkeley.
.....


Until we stop indorsing organizations like the ones above there will always be race issues in this country.
You are really quite warped. For centuries, each new wave of immigrants to this country has formed mutual support organizations based on ethnic, national, religious and other grounds to help members build networks and be able to integrate into the broader society and economy. As groups become fully integrated and no longer face any obstacles, these organizations tend to become less active and focus more on preserving aspects of culture -- organizing Columbus Day or St. Patrick's Day celebrations, or cultural picnics. To equate such organizations with hate groups is beyond absurd.

ducknwork
07-20-2010, 06:36 AM
This thread is a joke. I am glad I haven't read every bit of it, because I actually think it would lower my IQ. I don't need any more damage in that department...:p

Guess what guys...

Some crackers are racist. Some brothas are racist. Some guidos are racist. Some wetbacks are racist. There are some whites that aren't worth the dirt they walk on. There are some blacks that are useless as the day is long. Big govt and the entitlement mentality, lack of morals, ethics, values and healthy family lives are doing nothing to improve the situation. In fact, those things are making it far, far worse. Google the effects of single parent homes in regards to education, poverty (throughout life), health, incarceration, etc. The results are disturbing. If you want to improve the racism situation in this country, work on fixing those things. Attacking other human beings is not the way to get it done.

It's just the way it is and the way it probably always will be until the end of time, maybe longer. It's too bad that it has to be that way. This thread shows exactly why it's like that.

Everyone views racism differently depending on which side of the fence you fall on. Most people have closed minds when it comes to racism and therefore are not willing to LEARN why they believe may actually be partially or entirely incorrect. If everyone at least attempted to understand the other sides' point of view, maybe we could begin to eliminate prejudice and racism. But I doubt it.

road kill
07-20-2010, 06:50 AM
This thread is a joke. I am glad I haven't read every bit of it, because I actually think it would lower my IQ. I don't need any more damage in that department...:p




It has unraveled dramatically here at the end.

The valid point here is that no "mending" is occurring during this administration, to the contrary, relations are worsening.:(






stan b

Gerry Clinchy
07-20-2010, 07:17 AM
How in the world did you come to that conclusion based on what I wrote? Did you actually read it? First, it wasn’t a promotion. It was a job I applied for. Second, I did not use race to get hired. To the contrary, race was used to deny me the position. I presented documentation that proved I was the better, more productive worker. And, I had a witness that was in the room when the supervisor made the statement that he would not hire a black person as the reason I wasn’t hired. That would have stood up in a court of law, which is why they felt it was better to hire me than to have me sue them.

It would have worked for you if you had the kind of evidence I had.

Blackstone's personal example surely is why these laws were put in place. If race (or religion, or national origin, etc) is the determining reason for termination or lack of advancement, then it is wrong.

Personally, I believe I would have taken the HR information on my job performance and found another employer who appreciated it. I admit to having a short fuse on some things. OTOH, Blackstone's approach helped assure that the employer did not get off the hook for their illegal practice. After succeeding in that, then I would have looked for another employer :-)

badbullgator
07-20-2010, 07:52 AM
This thread is a joke. I am glad I haven't read every bit of it, because I actually think it would lower my IQ. I don't need any more damage in that department...:p

Guess what guys...

Some crackers are racist. Some brothas are racist. Some guidos are racist. Some wetbacks are racist. There are some whites that aren't worth the dirt they walk on. There are some blacks that are useless as the day is long. Big govt and the entitlement mentality, lack of morals, ethics, values and healthy family lives are doing nothing to improve the situation. In fact, those things are making it far, far worse. Google the effects of single parent homes in regards to education, poverty (throughout life), health, incarceration, etc. The results are disturbing. If you want to improve the racism situation in this country, work on fixing those things. Attacking other human beings is not the way to get it done.

It's just the way it is and the way it probably always will be until the end of time, maybe longer. It's too bad that it has to be that way. This thread shows exactly why it's like that.

Everyone views racism differently depending on which side of the fence you fall on. Most people have closed minds when it comes to racism and therefore are not willing to LEARN why they believe may actually be partially or entirely incorrect. If everyone at least attempted to understand the other sides' point of view, maybe we could begin to eliminate prejudice and racism. But I doubt it.

Let me set you straight on some thing. Crackers are native Floridians. The term comes form the old Florida cowboys driving cattle with whips. Crackers comes form the sound the whips make when it is cracked overhead. This was coined LONG, LONG before it became used as a derogatory term for whites. There are very few of us and I would much prefer that you refer to white folks as honkeys

Proud CRACKER regards

luvmylabs23139
07-20-2010, 08:36 AM
From your description of the incident, you deserved to be disciplined. You were in a position where a temp was hired to perform the job while a permanent candidate was recruited. You trained the temp. Human resources proceeded to do its job of identifying candidates for a permanent position. You refused to participate. You have only given two facts that may or may not be related to why you refused: the temp you wanted hired was a 55 year old white woman, and the resumes that HR provided were all for minorities. Once a replacement was hired, you refused to train her as you were asked to do, setting her up for failure. Why? Once again you provide us two reasons: You had already trained another person, and the person they hired was an "illegal border jumper" who didn't deserve to be there. Of course, later we learn that the person had been granted amnesty and was therefore fully legal whether you like it or not. Your supervisor clearly failed by not confronting you on your actions at the time. At best, you disrupted the operation of the organization by your failures to do your job. You acted in a manner that gave the appearance of bias against minorities, whether that was your intention or not, and that undermined the ability of a new employee to fulfill her responsibilities, even though none of the events leading to your frustration with HR had anything to do with the new employee. The new employee only tried to get a new job. She didn't make the decision concerning the temp you liked, and she didn't decide whether she or one of the others in the pile would be hired. In my world, which has included both governmental and private organizations, you would have either corrected your behavior from the beginning, or you would have been unemployed.

It was above my pay scale to have anything to do with the hiring of anyone for that job.
The position that should have been hiring was the General Accounting Manager. The person who was in that position quit (got another job) when he was told that he was required to hire only a minority in the job and could not hire the temp because she was white.
When he gave his notice he told me why. I was not going to be a part of a discriminatory hiring!
I already reported to someone else who was really sick of me not being able to consentrate fully on my current job.
My position was very secure. I did the union payroll and had a great working relationship with the Union and the Union stewards unlike the HR person that was suposed to work with them.
Lets just say they weren't going to mess with the person that ran interference and fixed all of their ineptness with the Union. I was covering HR's butts on a daily basis by doing 1/2 of their job.

ducknwork
07-20-2010, 09:04 AM
Let me set you straight on some thing. Crackers are native Floridians. The term comes form the old Florida cowboys driving cattle with whips. Crackers comes form the sound the whips make when it is cracked overhead. This was coined LONG, LONG before it became used as a derogatory term for whites. There are very few of us and I would much prefer that you refer to white folks as honkeys

Proud CRACKER regards

I stand corrected.:p

BTW, is a term really derogatory if it doesn't actually offend anyone, especially those that it is directed towards?

How many whips have you cracked overhead? I'm thinking you may not be a true cracker if you haven't done so...

Along the same lines as...

Don't call someone a cowboy til you've seen him ride....

kb27_99
07-20-2010, 09:19 AM
You are really quite warped. For centuries, each new wave of immigrants to this country has formed mutual support organizations based on ethnic, national, religious and other grounds to help members build networks and be able to integrate into the broader society and economy. As groups become fully integrated and no longer face any obstacles, these organizations tend to become less active and focus more on preserving aspects of culture -- organizing Columbus Day or St. Patrick's Day celebrations, or cultural picnics. To equate such organizations with hate groups is beyond absurd.



Jeff you missed the point again! As long as a group focuses on the needs of only one ethnic group there will always be a problem with race.


Starting to see the light?



























Didn't think so...................;-)

Julie R.
07-20-2010, 10:27 AM
How many whips have you cracked overhead? I'm thinking you may not be a true cracker if you haven't done so...

Along the same lines as...

Don't call someone a cowboy til you've seen him ride....

Well I guess that makes me a cracker. I used to be able to crack a hunt whip while riding at a full gallop :cool:. Back when I foxhunted regularly I got to whip in occasionally. The whipper in assists the huntsman, who hunts the hounds. Hounds follow the huntsman until he casts them into likely cover, then he stays behind them and encourages them. The whipper ins range out on either side of the pack. Our job was to head off splinter groups of hounds that ran riot (other game besides fox) or turn the pack if it was running toward areas we couldn't hunt or highways. The best way to turn running hounds in full cry is to crack your hunt whip. Hunt whips are braided leather thongs, about 8 feet or so, with a popper on the end. If you do it right it's almost as loud as gunshot, but it takes a LOT of practice plus a steady horse that won't spook and dump you.

Regards,
Virginia cracker who can ride AND crack a whip!

ducknwork
07-20-2010, 10:36 AM
Well that officially makes you a cracker. And a cowgirl.

Cowgirl...Hmmmmm. Where were you on the picture thread?;)

badbullgator
07-20-2010, 11:06 AM
I stand corrected.:p

BTW, is a term really derogatory if it doesn't actually offend anyone, especially those that it is directed towards?

How many whips have you cracked overhead? I'm thinking you may not be a true cracker if you haven't done so...

Along the same lines as...

Don't call someone a cowboy til you've seen him ride....


More than a few times thanks. Grew up helping my uncle on his cattle ranch every summer and have cracked a few whips in my day thanks.

ducknwork
07-20-2010, 11:08 AM
Certified Cracker!!

badbullgator
07-20-2010, 11:08 AM
Well I guess that makes me a cracker. I used to be able to crack a hunt whip while riding at a full gallop :cool:. Back when I foxhunted regularly I got to whip in occasionally. The whipper in assists the huntsman, who hunts the hounds. Hounds follow the huntsman until he casts them into likely cover, then he stays behind them and encourages them. The whipper ins range out on either side of the pack. Our job was to head off splinter groups of hounds that ran riot (other game besides fox) or turn the pack if it was running toward areas we couldn't hunt or highways. The best way to turn running hounds in full cry is to crack your hunt whip. Hunt whips are braided leather thongs, about 8 feet or so, with a popper on the end. If you do it right it's almost as loud as gunshot, but it takes a LOT of practice plus a steady horse that won't spook and dump you.

Regards,
Virginia cracker who can ride AND crack a whip!


Yeah but you really have to be moving our "cracker cows".
Now tell me more about these leather thongs of which you speak :D

ducknwork
07-20-2010, 11:11 AM
Yeah but you really have to be moving our "cracker cows".
Now tell me more about these leather thongs of which you speak :D

Uhh...She said they are about 8 feet long:shock:...I don't think you want to know any more about them...:( I certainly don't want to know any more about someone who might wear an 8 ft thong...

badbullgator
07-20-2010, 11:14 AM
Uhh...She said they are about 8 feet long:shock:...I don't think you want to know any more about them...:( I certainly don't want to know any more about someone who might wear an 8 ft thong...


HEy I would still like to see pics.....hell I look are car wrecks, so why not

david gibson
07-20-2010, 11:37 AM
Uhh...She said they are about 8 feet long:shock:...I don't think you want to know any more about them...:( I certainly don't want to know any more about someone who might wear an 8 ft thong...

unless its indiana jones i just dont see a guy with a whip looking right .... however, a lady....hmmmmm...

http://www.diamondjimssaloon.com/LeatherWhipTransp.gif

http://sexy-postcard.com/aw2k/LotImg40317.jpg

suddenly i am developing a taste for mayo....

Roger Perry
07-20-2010, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducknwork http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=647899#post647899)
Uhh...She said they are about 8 feet long:shock:...I don't think you want to know any more about them...:sad: I certainly don't want to know any more about someone who might wear an 8 ft thong...


HEy I would still like to see pics.....hell I look are car wrecks, so why not
__________________
Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
Corey Burke
http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/report.php?p=647902)

8 foot thong ------ that is a car wreck -----

badbullgator
07-20-2010, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducknwork http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=647899#post647899)
Uhh...She said they are about 8 feet long:shock:...I don't think you want to know any more about them...:sad: I certainly don't want to know any more about someone who might wear an 8 ft thong...


HEy I would still like to see pics.....hell I look are car wrecks, so why not
__________________
Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
Corey Burke
http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/report.php?p=647902)

8 foot thong ------ that is a car wreck -----

Indeed! You don't want to look....but.......can't stop your head from turning

road kill
07-20-2010, 08:14 PM
ROGER.......

OH ROGER........

I am still waiting for 1 shred of evidence that the Tea Party is racist.





Gosh, it's sure taking you a while.








rk:D

YardleyLabs
07-20-2010, 08:22 PM
ROGER.......

OH ROGER........

I am still waiting for 1 shred of evidence that the Tea Party is racist.





Gosh, it's sure taking you a while.








rk:D
I think this pretty much captures the spirit of the "revolution".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWbmEUIQOCQ&feature=player_embedded

Add this from Mark Williams' blog (This resulted in the severing of his relation to the rest of the Tea Party):

Dear Mr. Lincoln
We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!
In fact we held a big meeting and took a vote in Kansas City this week. We voted to condemn a political revival of that old abolitionist spirit called the ‘tea party movement’.
The tea party position to “end the bailouts” for example is just silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn’t that what we want all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds.
And the ridiculous idea of “reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of government.” What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life? As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions!

The racist tea parties also demand that the government “stop the out of control spending.” Again, they directly target coloreds. That means we Coloreds would have to compete for jobs like everybody else and that is just not right.
Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their demand that government “stop raising our taxes.” That is outrageous! How will we coloreds ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist! The tea party expects coloreds to be productive members of society?
Mr. Lincoln, you were the greatest racist ever. We had a great gig. Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house. Please repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments and let us get back to where we belong.
Sincerely
Precious Ben Jealous, Tom’s Nephew NAACP Head Colored Person

M&K's Retrievers
07-20-2010, 08:53 PM
I think this pretty much captures the spirit of the "revolution".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWbmEUIQOCQ&feature=player_embedded

A
[/INDENT]

1. How do we know these came from Tea Party meetings? Consider the source: NAACP

2. 1:12 into the tape shows "Obama '08" sign. Believe that was before the Tea Party existed.

kb27_99
07-20-2010, 08:57 PM
I think this pretty much captures the spirit of the "revolution".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWbmEUIQOCQ&feature=player_embedded



[/INDENT]

A lot of that is obviously photo shopped. You of all people should be able to pick up on that Jeff.

M&K's Retrievers
07-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Add this from Mark Williams' blog (This resulted in the severing of his relation to the rest of the Tea Party):

Dear Mr. Lincoln
We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!
In fact we held a big meeting and took a vote in Kansas City this week. We voted to condemn a political revival of that old abolitionist spirit called the ‘tea party movement’.
The tea party position to “end the bailouts” for example is just silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn’t that what we want all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds.
And the ridiculous idea of “reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of government.” What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life? As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions!

The racist tea parties also demand that the government “stop the out of control spending.” Again, they directly target coloreds. That means we Coloreds would have to compete for jobs like everybody else and that is just not right.
Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their demand that government “stop raising our taxes.” That is outrageous! How will we coloreds ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist! The tea party expects coloreds to be productive members of society?
Mr. Lincoln, you were the greatest racist ever. We had a great gig. Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house. Please repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments and let us get back to where we belong.
Sincerely
Precious Ben Jealous, Tom’s Nephew NAACP Head Colored Person



Mark Williams has been kicked out and rightfully so. Jeff, every organization has it zealots. That doesn't mean the organization is bad. You know that and are stretching for something to validate the NAACP's claim of racism.

Blackstone
07-20-2010, 09:45 PM
Mark Williams has been kicked out and rightfully so. Jeff, every organization has it zealots. That doesn't mean the organization is bad. You know that and are stretching for something to validate the NAACP's claim of racism.

I believe the resolution the NAACP adopted condemned "racist elements" in the Tea Party. They went on to say, "What we take issue with is the Tea Party's continued tolerance for bigotry and bigoted statements.

"The time has come for them to accept the responsibility that comes with influence and make clear there is no place for racism and anti-Semitism, homophobia and other forms of bigotry in their movement."

Cleary, Mark Williams was a part of that "racist element" the NAACP was talking about. The fact that the Tea Party kicked him out shows they are willing to address the issue. Hopefully they will continue to root out that element.

Hew
07-21-2010, 06:32 AM
I think this pretty much captures the spirit of the "revolution".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWbmEUIQOCQ&feature=player_embedded

Some pictures of a handful of stupid signs that might have been taken at tea party events defines the tea party and its participants? If that's the logic that's being used then we can assume you spit on wounded American servicemen when they returned from Vietnam and that you planted nailbombs at police stations. Because everyone knows that was the spirit of all Vietnam war protests/protesters, right?

Hey Yardley, what do you say,
How many amputees did you spit on today?

road kill
07-21-2010, 07:01 AM
Some pictures of a handful of stupid signs that might have been taken at tea party events defines the tea party and its participants? If that's the logic that's being used then we can assume you spit on wounded American servicemen when they returned from Vietnam and that you planted nailbombs at police stations. Because everyone knows that was the spirit of all Vietnam war protests/protesters, right?

Hey Yardley, what do you say,
How many amputees did you spit on today?

Just a thought, I was one who got spit at when I came home.
(Long Beach CA 1972)
Unfortunately there was more than spit thrown at us.
Classy!!

These are the people leading the progressive party today.


Thanks Yardley, I mean since you protested the war, you must have been one of them.



Still NO tangible proof.
You won't accept anecdotal evidence, why should we accept more concocted unproven crap like you just posted.

You sink further and further everyday!!



rk

Julie R.
07-21-2010, 10:52 AM
ROGER.......

OH ROGER........

I am still waiting for 1 shred of evidence that the Tea Party is racist.





Gosh, it's sure taking you a while.








rk:D

Guess I'll have to send one of my Florida CRACKER friends to WHIP that evidence out of him.

Below is a hunt whip. The braided part is the thong, the string at the end is the popper. Most of them have wooden stocks with stag horn handles used for opening gates and picking things up off the ground.
http://www.osbwk.co.uk/hunting%20whip.jpg

And FYI the word THONG has been used to describe a whip component far longer than it's been used to describe a certain type of undergarment.

david gibson
07-21-2010, 11:08 AM
Guess I'll have to send one of my Florida CRACKER friends to WHIP that evidence out of him.

Below is a hunt whip. The braided part is the thong, the string at the end is the popper. Most of them have wooden stocks with stag horn handles used for opening gates and picking things up off the ground.
http://www.osbwk.co.uk/hunting%20whip.jpg

And FYI the word THONG has been used to describe a whip component far longer than it's been used to describe a certain type of undergarment.

i dont care if it is 8' long, a hot woman would still look good clad only in that......just sayin'....