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luvmylabs23139
07-22-2010, 04:55 PM
This is beyond a joke. HOw much does GMAC owe us, the taxpayers? How much of GM are we still stuck with?
Americredit is a SUBPRIME lender.

Blackstone
07-22-2010, 05:51 PM
This is beyond a joke. HOw much does GMAC owe us, the taxpayers? How much of GM are we still stuck with?
Americredit is a SUBPRIME lender.

AmeriCredit is a subprime lender, but they are a very efficient subprime lender. Because of the way they run their business, they came through the subprime credit mess just find. The only problem they had was their stock dropped because everyone was afraid to invest in any subprime lenders. The fact is, most car companies depend on buyers that don’t have the best credit. About 5% of all car loans fit that category. GMAC is the lender GM has a lending association with, but GMAC is no longer providing subprime loans, so GM could not take advantage of that market. AmeriCredit specializes in customers with FICO scores of 300 to 600. That gives GM a crack at those buyer that would have had to go to another manufacturer to buy a car because of poor credit. Of course there is some risk to GM, but since AmeriCredit has such a good track record for making money with these types of loans, the risks are minimal.

troy schwab
07-23-2010, 09:15 AM
With americans credit scores under tougher scrutiny, and falling like rocks........ The percent of subprime business GM will write will explode exponentially. Blackstone, you said 5%, where did you get that number from? I would suspect that recently (past two years), that number has doubled if not tripled, and will increase as Americans credit and finances get drug through the ringer. SUBPRIME lending is never good for ANY institution, regardless of track record...... it is RISKY. I just hope when GM goes under the second time, we let them fail...... just as any other business in this country should be allowed to do. You bury your business, you deserve to fail. Disclaimer: My family's business has not recieved any government aid or TARP funds.........


irritated about crappy business management, regards

Blackstone
07-23-2010, 01:44 PM
With americans credit scores under tougher scrutiny, and falling like rocks........ The percent of subprime business GM will write will explode exponentially. Blackstone, you said 5%, where did you get that number from? I would suspect that recently (past two years), that number has doubled if not tripled, and will increase as Americans credit and finances get drug through the ringer. SUBPRIME lending is never good for ANY institution, regardless of track record...... it is RISKY. I just hope when GM goes under the second time, we let them fail...... just as any other business in this country should be allowed to do. You bury your business, you deserve to fail. Disclaimer: My family's business has not recieved any government aid or TARP funds.........


irritated about crappy business management, regards

Tony,

That 5% estimate is based on conversations I have had with representatives from institutions that provide loans and leases to the automotive industry. That is what they told me. I have no reason to doubt them. AmeriCredit has specialized in these types of loans for years. Not only did they not get hurt during the recent subprime credit mess, but they came through it literally unscathed. Obviously, they have a pretty effective system for selecting and managing these types of loans. I doubt they will get careless now with how many they accept and how they handle them.

GM and its employees have made a lot of efforts and sacrifices to right the ship and make the business viable again. It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and condemn without a full understanding of what led to this. I don’t know what your family’s business is, but unless it is of the size and complexity of a GM, there probably isn’t much of a comparison.

luvmylabs23139
07-23-2010, 02:23 PM
As a taxpayer (we own 61%) I strongly oppose getting mixed up in the subprime market! As far as I'm conserned GM can do whatever once they have paid back every dime to the taxpayers, both before and after the BS bankrupcy and the taxpayers no longer own the company as long as we, the taxpayers never give them another dime.

Hew
07-23-2010, 02:44 PM
...but since AmeriCredit has such a good track record for making money with these types of loans, the risks are minimal.
Apparently the stock market doesn't think so.

I don't see why GM needs to buy them. Americredit would still be writing sub-prime loans for GM vehicles regardless of whether GM bought them or not. Two years ago I think that's maybe not such a bad risk to take with the GM shareholders' money. Right now GM is gambling with the house's money. And the house is the American taxpayer.

Blackstone
07-23-2010, 03:00 PM
As a taxpayer (we own 61%) I strongly oppose getting mixed up in the subprime market! As far as I'm conserned GM can do whatever once they have paid back every dime to the taxpayers, both before and after the BS bankrupcy and the taxpayers no longer own the company as long as we, the taxpayers never give them another dime.

I can appreciate your concerns, but perhaps you should investigate just what these subprime loans are, what the criteria for approval is, and how much actual risk is involved before you take such a hard line against it. Do you know how many subprime auto loans actually default and what average losses are? AmeriCredit’s losses on their portfolio is about 8%. However, they charge subprime borrowers anywhere from 17% – 30% interest, which means their profit margin can be substantial. Most auto manufacturers that have lending arms or associations with lenders take similar risks. GM had not been able to participate because GMAC no longer approved any subprime loans.

At any rate, it is a done deal. GM owns AmeriCredit. If you are really that unhappy, contact your Congressman or Senator and demand that the Fed. Gov. take over the running of GM so GM can’t make these kinds of decisions in the future. Most people on this forum criticized the Gov. for having any involvement in a private company. Now, you want Gov. to dictate how GM can run its business. Isn’t that socialism?

luvmylabs23139
07-23-2010, 03:46 PM
I want the gooberment to get out of GM and opposed all money given to them. My congressWOMAN agrees with me as does one of the Senators form my state. OF course the DUMACRAT new senator has a differing opinion. I email her office on a regular basis telling her what I thnk. THe gov't does not belong in GM but the realty is that we taxpayers do currently own the controling interest in the company. As a result the TAXPAYERS (those that actually pay federal income taxes) should as stockholders be allowed to vote as stockholders. I mean everyone who actually paid for that 61% thru paying federal income taxes should be allowed to vote as a shareholder on this. Not some gov't dummacrat, Give me the shares I paid for and let me personally vote.

Blackstone
07-23-2010, 04:56 PM
I want the gooberment to get out of GM and opposed all money given to them. My congressWOMAN agrees with me as does one of the Senators form my state. OF course the DUMACRAT new senator has a differing opinion. I email her office on a regular basis telling her what I thnk. THe gov't does not belong in GM but the realty is that we taxpayers do currently own the controling interest in the company. As a result the TAXPAYERS (those that actually pay federal income taxes) should as stockholders be allowed to vote as stockholders. I mean everyone who actually paid for that 61% thru paying federal income taxes should be allowed to vote as a shareholder on this. Not some gov't dummacrat, Give me the shares I paid for and let me personally vote.

The fact is, right now there is no stock, so there are no stockholders. Even if there were, stockholders don't get to vote on every business decision a company makes. It dosen't work that way. That being said, do you really think you have the expertise to run a car company? I really don't think I would like to see the fate of GM resting in your hands.

luvmylabs23139
07-23-2010, 05:19 PM
The fact is, right now there is no stock, so there are no stockholders. Even if there were, stockholders don't get to vote on every business decision a company makes. It dosen't work that way. That being said, do you really think you have the expertise to run a car company? I really don't think I would like to see the fate of GM resting in your hands.

First please excuse my typos. Hand surgery a few days ago.

I don't want any of it in the communist gov't hands or the unions hands.
Can I run a car company? I doubt it. Could I do a better job than the clowns in charge? YES!

Blackstone
07-23-2010, 05:25 PM
Apparently the stock market doesn't think so.

I don't see why GM needs to buy them. Americredit would still be writing sub-prime loans for GM vehicles regardless of whether GM bought them or not. Two years ago I think that's maybe not such a bad risk to take with the GM shareholders' money. Right now GM is gambling with the house's money. And the house is the American taxpayer.

By buying AmeriCredit, GM has a captive in house financing arm, which allows them to take advantage of leasing and subprime buyers that were forced to go elsewhere. It is estimated that this will increase GM sales by 4% - 5%. The other majors player like Ford & Toyota already have in house financing arms to take advantage of that market. If GM is going to be competitive in this market they are going to have to do the same.

A lot of people on this board said GM was going to fail even with the Gov. loans because they didn’t know how to run a business. Every time GM announced a new sales campaign, someone on here was critical of it, and said how GM was gambling with tax payer money. Each time they were proven wrong. Now, sales are up, and GM has turned a profit, and still people want to criticize and play arm chair quarterback on every move GM makes. GM’s sales and profits will increase as a result of this move, and the naysayers will just move on the next thing GM does.

gman0046
07-23-2010, 05:37 PM
Thank God for the Messiah and GM.

luvmylabs23139
07-23-2010, 06:14 PM
THe gov't is still saying taxpayers will lose money on GM. They haven't paid us back yet they are dragging us into mre subprime lending.
Am I the only one that thinks this is part of BUMFACES socialist agenda,
Take over the car companise and then give loan to (deadbeats) Redistribution of wealth. WE that pay federal income taxes will be stuck with the defaults.

dback
07-23-2010, 06:15 PM
The fact is, right now there is no stock, so there are no stockholders. Even if there were, stockholders don't get to vote on every business decision a company makes. It dosen't work that way. That being said, do you really think you have the expertise to run a car company? I really don't think I would like to see the fate of GM resting in your hands.

That's bull because I own a boat load of it......all .4018 cents worth at todays rate. If GM had failed and I lost it.....so be it, but to take my money and tell me I'm SOL plus taxpayer dollars to support a failed corporation and prop up union employees and cronies within GM......well.....I guess that's just a frustration you libs fail to comprehend.

luvmylabs23139
07-23-2010, 06:30 PM
Blackstone, you need to get a grip. I was a secured bondholder, because guess what it was a secure investment. BUMMA thru law to the wind and I lost a bucket of retirement money. Now they are gambling with my tax dollars.
SECURED BONDHOLDER!!!!!
Yup, I'm buying that " evil gold" and getting out of this country.
Fool those that believe the gov't can't or won't try and steal that. They did it by executive order in the thirties.
If GOOBERMENT wants it they will steal it no matter what,

Raymond Little
07-23-2010, 10:12 PM
17%-30% intrest for a car loan???? Do the math on that one folks!
Bumma will be bailing out all the IDIOTs financing those GM autos
as soon as they realize GM hosed them. Next, they will have 120
month payment plans!!!!!

Blackstone
07-24-2010, 04:53 PM
17%-30% intrest for a car loan???? Do the math on that one folks!
Bumma will be bailing out all the IDIOTs financing those GM autos
as soon as they realize GM hosed them. Next, they will have 120
month payment plans!!!!!

AmeriCredit has been charging those rates for years. People that have poor credit ratings for whatever reason still need a car, and those are the rates they have to pay. There's nothing new about that. Why is it all of a sudden more risky or more rediculous now that GM owns AmeriCredit?

Blackstone
07-24-2010, 05:01 PM
Blackstone, you need to get a grip. I was a secured bondholder, because guess what it was a secure investment. BUMMA thru law to the wind and I lost a bucket of retirement money. Now they are gambling with my tax dollars.
SECURED BONDHOLDER!!!!!
Yup, I'm buying that " evil gold" and getting out of this country.
Fool those that believe the gov't can't or won't try and steal that. They did it by executive order in the thirties.
If GOOBERMENT wants it they will steal it no matter what,

You keep saying Obama threw out the law. But, you have yet to point to the law he threw out. I guess you are just going to cling to that regardless to the fact that you have nothing to prove it.

If you're that disenchanted with this country, you should leave. Like they used to say, "Love it, or leave it."

Blackstone
07-24-2010, 05:15 PM
THe gov't is still saying taxpayers will lose money on GM. They haven't paid us back yet they are dragging us into mre subprime lending.
Am I the only one that thinks this is part of BUMFACES socialist agenda,
Take over the car companise and then give loan to (deadbeats) Redistribution of wealth. WE that pay federal income taxes will be stuck with the defaults.

You really are having a difficult time grasping this, aren’t you? Subprime auto loans are nothing like subprime mortgages. They are not as risky or complex.

If AmeriCredit averages a loss of 8% on their account portfolio because of defaults (which they have), but makes 17% to 30% on the rest of their portfolio (which they have), that is a return of 9% to 22%. That’s call profit. So, how are American tax payers getting stuck with the defaults?

Franco
07-24-2010, 05:18 PM
One of the biggest problems with subprime loans on autos is what the industry calls "upside down". Meaning the person paying the auto mortgage owes more than what the auto is worth.

Which makes it hard for them to buy a new auto because they have to drive the one they have until the wheels fall off. Another reason why the average auto on the road today in the USA is 9 years old.

Since auto loans are simple interest loans, it is in the buyers best interest to pay off the loan as quickly as possible.

Blackstone
07-24-2010, 05:26 PM
That's bull because I own a boat load of it......all .4018 cents worth at todays rate. If GM had failed and I lost it.....so be it, but to take my money and tell me I'm SOL plus taxpayer dollars to support a failed corporation and prop up union employees and cronies within GM......well.....I guess that's just a frustration you libs fail to comprehend.

Dback,

Who took your money? GM went into bankruptcy. That's what happens during bankruptcies. You lost your money because you didn't get out in time. I'm sorry for your loss, but that support kept a lot of other people, companies, and an entire industry from going under. So, to quote Spock, "The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few."

dback
07-25-2010, 12:54 AM
Dback,

Who took your money? GM went into bankruptcy. That's what happens during bankruptcies. You lost your money because you didn't get out in time. I'm sorry for your loss, but that support kept a lot of other people, companies, and an entire industry from going under. So, to quote Spock, "The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few."

You miss the entire point Blackstone, however, I sincerely appreciate your genuine concern for my financial welfare and taking the time to walk me through the bankruptcy process. My whole point (unclear though it may have been) is that I don't believe the US government should be using taxpayer dollars to save mismanaged corporations (except under extremely special circumstances). I firmly believe we are, as a society, nurturing a serious genetic defect....rather than being born head first.....we are now born, hand out first. Many cast their vote for he who deposits the largest pouch of coins into that hand. This defect will inevitability lead to the failure of democracy as envisioned by our founding fathers. I am not suggesting the O administration as the sole culprit. The last several decades of leadership of all types and persuasions in their desire to remain in power have failed us, to some degree the justice system has failed us and most of all we have failed ourselves by not taking personal responsibility, but the O administration is certainly speeding up the process. I don't understand many in a White community that have sacrificed so dearly to prevent the spread of socialism now embracing it. It is beyond my level of comprehension to understand an extremely industrious people like the Hispanic community favoring socialism thereby stifling the very tool that is the strength of their character....entrepreneurialism. It baffles me that a Black community that struggled so hard for equality of opportunity would now settle for anything less then the most democracy and capitalism have to offer. While I understand the fascination of a certain resident photographer with the shortcomings of our society as his preferred subject material, his intellect and photographic skills might also be brought to bear on our many social advances both as a whole and individually. This nation yet has the capacity of world leadership, provided we demand that quality of leadership and integrity our fathers fought and died for. We as a people must find and remove the cancers within our leadership regardless of party affiliation and we will be fine. I can't speak to financial institutions, however, you won't convince me that assisting GM was much more than the repayment of political debt and the securing of future votes.

I rarely quote Vulcans.....especially when it is eerily similar to some dude I studied in HS, "From each according to his abilities......." so I'll try a little Winston Churchill;
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings, the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

And.....so that you might rest easier....I was 'lucky' enough to buy Ford at $3.00 and sell near $14.00 ;-) I could care less what happens to my "Liquidation" stock.

troy schwab
07-26-2010, 09:24 AM
You miss the entire point Blackstone, however, I sincerely appreciate your genuine concern for my financial welfare and taking the time to walk me through the bankruptcy process. My whole point (unclear though it may have been) is that I don't believe the US government should be using taxpayer dollars to save mismanaged corporations (except under extremely special circumstances). I firmly believe we are, as a society, nurturing a serious genetic defect....rather than being born head first.....we are now born, hand out first. Many cast their vote for he who deposits the largest pouch of coins into that hand. This defect will inevitability lead to the failure of democracy as envisioned by our founding fathers. I am not suggesting the O administration as the sole culprit. The last several decades of leadership of all types and persuasions in their desire to remain in power have failed us, to some degree the justice system has failed us and most of all we have failed ourselves by not taking personal responsibility, but the O administration is certainly speeding up the process. I don't understand many in a White community that have sacrificed so dearly to prevent the spread of socialism now embracing it. It is beyond my level of comprehension to understand an extremely industrious people like the Hispanic community favoring socialism thereby stifling the very tool that is the strength of their character....entrepreneurialism. It baffles me that a Black community that struggled so hard for equality of opportunity would now settle for anything less then the most democracy and capitalism have to offer. While I understand the fascination of a certain resident photographer with the shortcomings of our society as his preferred subject material, his intellect and photographic skills might also be brought to bear on our many social advances both as a whole and individually. This nation yet has the capacity of world leadership, provided we demand that quality of leadership and integrity our fathers fought and died for. We as a people must find and remove the cancers within our leadership regardless of party affiliation and we will be fine. I can't speak to financial institutions, however, you won't convince me that assisting GM was much more than the repayment of political debt and the securing of future votes.

I rarely quote Vulcans.....especially when it is eerily similar to some dude I studied in HS, "From each according to his abilities......." so I'll try a little Winston Churchill;
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings, the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

And.....so that you might rest easier....I was 'lucky' enough to buy Ford at $3.00 and sell near $14.00 ;-) I could care less what happens to my "Liquidation" stock.

VERY WELL STATED DBACK!!

Blackstone
07-26-2010, 11:22 AM
You miss the entire point Blackstone, however, I sincerely appreciate your genuine concern for my financial welfare and taking the time to walk me through the bankruptcy process. My whole point (unclear though it may have been) is that I don't believe the US government should be using taxpayer dollars to save mismanaged corporations (except under extremely special circumstances). I firmly believe we are, as a society, nurturing a serious genetic defect....rather than being born head first.....we are now born, hand out first. Many cast their vote for he who deposits the largest pouch of coins into that hand. This defect will inevitability lead to the failure of democracy as envisioned by our founding fathers. I am not suggesting the O administration as the sole culprit. The last several decades of leadership of all types and persuasions in their desire to remain in power have failed us, to some degree the justice system has failed us and most of all we have failed ourselves by not taking personal responsibility, but the O administration is certainly speeding up the process. I don't understand many in a White community that have sacrificed so dearly to prevent the spread of socialism now embracing it. It is beyond my level of comprehension to understand an extremely industrious people like the Hispanic community favoring socialism thereby stifling the very tool that is the strength of their character....entrepreneurialism. It baffles me that a Black community that struggled so hard for equality of opportunity would now settle for anything less then the most democracy and capitalism have to offer. While I understand the fascination of a certain resident photographer with the shortcomings of our society as his preferred subject material, his intellect and photographic skills might also be brought to bear on our many social advances both as a whole and individually. This nation yet has the capacity of world leadership, provided we demand that quality of leadership and integrity our fathers fought and died for. We as a people must find and remove the cancers within our leadership regardless of party affiliation and we will be fine. I can't speak to financial institutions, however, you won't convince me that assisting GM was much more than the repayment of political debt and the securing of future votes.

I rarely quote Vulcans.....especially when it is eerily similar to some dude I studied in HS, "From each according to his abilities......." so I'll try a little Winston Churchill;
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings, the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

And.....so that you might rest easier....I was 'lucky' enough to buy Ford at $3.00 and sell near $14.00 ;-) I could care less what happens to my "Liquidation" stock.

I can agree with much of what you said. I believe there is a certain moral and ethical bankruptcy in this country that needs to be addressed if America is to remain a great country. However, I do not believe any of the groups you mentioned are advocating or favoring a change to a socialistic society. I think that many are looking for a change to how the current system operates because they have not always been included in reaping the benefits of it. Change does not always lead to a dismantling of a system. Sometimes it simply leads to the improvement of it.

You mentioned how hard the Black community had struggled for equality of opportunity. If you look back to the civil rights movement of the ‘60s & ‘70s, often times the fear of change was labeled as a move to socialism or communism. However, if those changes had not been made, most minorities in this country would not have the opportunities they have today. The FBI targeted Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement in general as communist and socialist. There were articles and books written about Martin Luther King and the road to socialism. But, those fears proved unfounded. I point this out to illustrate that everyone may not be looking at what is going on in this country as a move toward socialism. Perspective is everything.

As far as what happened with GM, I have no doubt that the fact that the UAW supported Obama helped influence his decision to assist GM. This is nothing new. Favorable support has always been granted to those groups, industries, or individuals that support campaigns. If they weren’t, there would be no reason for them to invest in the campaign. However, it should be noted that the UAW took its lumps in bailout, and was forced to make significant sacrifices to their existing contract. It wasn’t a free ride.

Personally, I was in favor of the government assistance, and not only because I work for GM. I believe if GM had failed, the entire American auto industry, including Ford & Chrysler, would have collapsed as well. That would have thrown several 100 thousand people out of work and destroyed many connected business at a time when the economy was already on the verge of collapse. I believe the collapse of an industry of that size would have been the final nail in the coffin of this economy, and we would have been looking at a depression instead of a recession. I don’t like the idea of government intervening in private business either, but I’m not willing to cut off my nose to spite my face just to stand on that principle.

I’m glad you bought the Ford stock. You should make a tidy profit. I personally sold all my GM stock when it was at $90/share, so that tells you how long ago I lost faith in the direction the company was going. I may work for the GM, but I wasn’t blind. That being said, I do like most of what I am seeing now, especially on the new and future product side. So, when GM issues its IPO later this year or Q1 next year, I will be a buyer.

luvmylabs23139
07-26-2010, 11:39 AM
Ding ding dong! Blackstone just admitted that he works for GM. All opinions of his on the subject are totally biased. I had suspected that he did due to his total defense of everything GM and bailout!

Blackstone
07-26-2010, 11:51 AM
Ding ding dong! Blackstone just admitted that he works for GM. All opinions of his on the subject are totally biased. I had suspected that he did due to his total defense of everything GM and bailout!

I think just about everyone on here except for you already knew I worked for them. I have never made any secret of that, and I have mentioned it before. Working for GM may bias my opinion somewhat, but it also gives me insight into GM and the industry as a whole that you have proven you do not possess. It doesn't change any of the facts or statistics I have posted. If you believe they are biased, post the facts that refute them.

dback
07-27-2010, 09:12 AM
You mentioned how hard the Black community had struggled for equality of opportunity. If you look back to the civil rights movement of the ‘60s & ‘70s, often times the fear of change was labeled as a move to socialism or communism. However, if those changes had not been made, most minorities in this country would not have the opportunities they have today. The FBI targeted Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement in general as communist and socialist. There were articles and books written about Martin Luther King and the road to socialism. But, those fears proved unfounded. I point this out to illustrate that everyone may not be looking at what is going on in this country as a move toward socialism.

I seriously hope you're not trying to make an analogy of 60's FBI actions with MLK to the current trends... debt/deficit, single payer healthcare, government expansion, bailing out poorly managed corps. (both auto & financial), Biden "spread the wealth, be patriotic" (or some such)


Perspective is everything.

Ummhuh.....Shirley you're referring to the folks that were celebrating the last of their mortgage or car payments cause O would be coverin' those costs.....better yet.....the ones that lined up for their 'Obama cash', or, were those just more of your "bogus" news stories :rolleyes:

Government 'redistribution' is akin to someone filling a five gallon bucket at the deep end of the pool, taking a gallon for himself (or more) and splashing some on the deck while running to the shallow end to pour it back in. No one benefits 'cept the dude with the bucket.

Blackstone
07-27-2010, 11:27 AM
I seriously hope you're not trying to make an analogy of 60's FBI actions with MLK to the current trends... debt/deficit, single payer healthcare, government expansion, bailing out poorly managed corps. (both auto & financial), Biden "spread the wealth, be patriotic" (or some such)



Ummhuh.....Shirley you're referring to the folks that were celebrating the last of their mortgage or car payments cause O would be coverin' those costs.....better yet.....the ones that lined up for their 'Obama cash', or, were those just more of your "bogus" news stories :rolleyes:

Government 'redistribution' is akin to someone filling a five gallon bucket at the deep end of the pool, taking a gallon for himself (or more) and splashing some on the deck while running to the shallow end to pour it back in. No one benefits 'cept the dude with the bucket.

My point is that fears of communism and socialism have been greatly exaggerated in the past, and, IMO, are being greatly exaggerated now. I don’t think the sky is falling, and I do not believe we are headed down the road to socialism. We are facing some extraordinary challenges in this country right now, and I believe it’s going to take extraordinary measures to meet them. Some of the measures needed are going to be distasteful to some and a benefit to others. I just don’t see this country collapsing as a result of them.

dback
07-27-2010, 11:38 AM
Some of the measures needed are going to be distasteful to some and a benefit to others.

Spoken like a true lib and union man..........I'll defer to Marvin's post!

Blackstone
07-27-2010, 11:47 AM
Spoken like a true lib and union man..........I'll defer to Marvin's post!

If by 'lib", you mean open minded, I'll agree with that. As far as a "union man" goes. I have never belonged to a union in my life. I just don't hate them.

dback
07-27-2010, 12:25 PM
If by 'lib", you mean open minded,

au contraire mon ami......intended with all the disrespect, disdain and disgust a redneck farmboy can muster.


As far as a "union man" goes. I have never belonged to a union in my life. I just don't hate them.

Since when is membership a requirement for pitching a line?

The burning question is.....you've been a frequent poster lately, days, nights, weekdays and weekends.....so are you on extended vacation, rewarding GM for that promotion, have lots and lots of breaks or taking a hiatus from Star Trek reruns?

troy schwab
07-27-2010, 12:28 PM
The burning question is.....you've been a frequent poster lately, days, nights, weekdays and weekends.....so are you on extended vacation, rewarding GM for that promotion, have lots and lots of breaks or taking a hiatus from Star Trek reruns?

OUCH..... thats gonna leave a mark...... ROFL Seriously...... if you dont mind me asking..... BLACKSTONE..... What exactly do you do for GM? I understand if you choose not to answer.

Blackstone
07-27-2010, 02:02 PM
au contraire mon ami......intended with all the disrespect, disdain and disgust a redneck farmboy can muster.

Dispite your disdain and disgust, I am still not insulted.


Since when is membership a requirement for pitching a line?

I don't have to be pitching a line to recognize what unions have done for he standard of living in this country.


The burning question is.....you've been a frequent poster lately, days, nights, weekdays and weekends.....so are you on extended vacation, rewarding GM for that promotion, have lots and lots of breaks or taking a hiatus from Star Trek reruns?

Well, I guess that question will have to continue to burn. How I use or schedule my time is not really subject to your review or approval.

dback
07-27-2010, 08:36 PM
Well, I guess that question will have to continue to burn. How I use or schedule my time is not really subject to your review or approval.

LOL......aaaaaah, I'm crushed Blackstone.....simply crushed. I'll take it that Marvin has hit quite the sensitive little nerve.

JDogger
07-27-2010, 11:20 PM
LOL......aaaaaah, I'm crushed Blackstone.....simply crushed. I'll take it that Marvin has hit quite the sensitive little nerve.

Marvin made a post to this thread? I've looked but cannot find it. Can you give a link? Thank you. JD

Blackstone
07-28-2010, 12:09 AM
LOL......aaaaaah, I'm crushed Blackstone.....simply crushed. I'll take it that Marvin has hit quite the sensitive little nerve.

I had no intent to crush you. Nor, did you strike a nerve. I just don’t think how I spend my time is really any of your business.

I was, however, surprised when you decided to attack my character. I thought it was uncalled for and petty. I thought we were having a civil discussion, but apparently I was the only one intent on being civil. I guess when you find you can’t convert someone to your “redneck farmboy” way of thinking, that is the sort of thing you resort to. I guess that is just another way in which we differ ideologically. I can actually respect that fact that someone may have opinions that differs from mine without feeling the need to muster all the “disrespect, disdain and disgust” for them that I can.

dback
07-28-2010, 05:16 PM
I had no intent to crush you. Nor, did you strike a nerve. I just don’t think how I spend my time is really any of your business.

I was, however, surprised when you decided to attack my character. I thought it was uncalled for and petty. I thought we were having a civil discussion, but apparently I was the only one intent on being civil. I guess when you find you can’t convert someone to your “redneck farmboy” way of thinking, that is the sort of thing you resort to. I guess that is just another way in which we differ ideologically. I can actually respect that fact that someone may have opinions that differs from mine without feeling the need to muster all the “disrespect, disdain and disgust” for them that I can.

Alright Blackstone, I'll play your game and give you the benefit of the doubt.......one time.

Thirty five years ago I left a comfortable management position and started a business. Had a three year plan that took almost twenty five years to achieve. I rose most mornings at 2:30 AM and worked until 9,10,11:00 PM (have been known to go 2 or even 3 days without stopping). During those years my children suffered, my wife suffered and I (physically) suffered, but one day I looked up and all bills were paid, mortgage was paid, company was payed off and I actually was making a profit, owned real estate, had some toys. Now I'm no Jerry Moyes (my neighbor) but I'm comfortable and can generally do most anything I want. The company has generated millions in revenue, we've paid millions in payroll and I can't even venture a guess as to how much we have paid in total taxes through the years. Most people in this country weren't out of bed when I had finished a half day and headed to breakfast and I had already put in a full day by the time many other businesses were just opening. That's a backdrop.....have never asked and am not asking now for any 'ata boys'.....just the way it was.

So, let's return to post #29....I highlight my exception to your 'ideology' (which you had stated twice at that point). Fiscal 'libs' in my view are people that want to spend MY money because I'm "rich" :rolleyes: and it just fell into my lap anyway (others NEED it). My first morning stop years ago, was to fuel up and grab a cup of coffee.....I can assure you that other than a few 'hookers' and 'druggies', myself and the 17 yo clerk were the only two working, yet liberals feel I owe them??? I buy nothing I can't pay for with cash while libs say I should assist those that have bought and can't pay. I save yet am told that I should pay for those who don't. I have (to the best of my ability) planned for our future retirement and am told that I will pay for services for those that have not. I struggled to save and make ends meet so the government can use my tax dollars to save (?) a mismanaged corporation and its employees who, at the very least, played a role in the corporations demise? I am not even allow to leave this company to my children without them again paying an even higher tax on receipt. I would bet a dollar to a donut that I am equal to or exceed 98% of the population in percent of income given in donations to charitable organizations yet, 15 feet in any direction I can find a liberal that accuses me of 'not caring', being 'greedy' or selfish once they find out I'm a conservative. Employees can be a real sore spot with me....I risked EVERYTHING to get here, I pay much higher than the industry standard, give bonuses, work around their family problems, often allow them to use company equipment for personal matters, etc., etc......so when I find two of them curled up sleeping at 7:30 AM when their work day began at 5:00 AM .... yeah, I get a little PO'd. We both know that Marvin was not talking about you, however, "IF" you are doing this on GM time....YES, I find it inappropriate.

With all of that open mindedness do you consider ANY of these things???????? noooooooo, after all I'm a mere conservative that deserve no such consideration. So your cute little response.....
"If your definition of 'lib' is 'open minded'......well there ya go, never heard that one before....goes without saying that liberals are the sole possessors of 'open mindedness' and no conservative could fathom the concept....especially a 'redneck'.

The better part of 16 years I spent playing with and against most every ethnic group America has to offer.....lots of blacks....may come as a surprise to you but them boys can talk some serious trash. I didn't survive all those years by cowering in a corner.....fired at, I will fire back.

So there you have it Blackstone....the ball is in your court.... In my view you have two options....lets see the 'quality of your character' and the 'lib' (by your less than sincere definition) or you can simply jump into the 'Mosh Pit' and then complain when bruised.

Your option


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