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pat addis
07-30-2010, 07:38 AM
i have to ask what is the difference between a democrat and a progressive i heard a speech that obama gave to congress and he said he wanted to thank his fellow progressives.so when did this happen and are all democrats progressives? i just wanted to know if this is when the democrats left me

subroc
07-30-2010, 07:55 AM
in the old days, degree of extremisim.

today, none...they are all left wing radical extremists that advocate socialist/communist principles.

YardleyLabs
07-30-2010, 08:05 AM
in the old days, degree of extremisim.

today, none...they are all left wing radical extremists that advocate socialist/communist principles.
Just like all conservatives are brown shirted fascists. Extremists make up a relatively small part of both Democrats and Republicans, and elections are won based on the choices made by those sitting squarely in the middle. What the wing-nuts produce -- whether they come from the right or the left -- is an awful lot of noise, but few real solutions. Names like fascist, communist, and socialist have little meaning in describing American politics. Even our most liberal politicians are relatively conservative by world standards, and our national spirit remains largely libertarian, but subject to encroachment by moralizers from the left and right.

Ken Bora
07-30-2010, 08:12 AM
....Names like fascist, communist, and socialist have little meaning in describing American politics.....


ever heard of Bernie Sanders?:cool:

road kill
07-30-2010, 08:15 AM
Just like all conservatives are brown shirted fascists. Extremists make up a relatively small part of both Democrats and Republicans, and elections are won based on the choices made by those sitting squarely in the middle. What the wing-nuts produce -- whether they come from the right or the left -- is an awful lot of noise, but few real solutions. Names like fascist, communist, and socialist have little meaning in describing American politics. Even our most liberal politicians are relatively conservative by world standards, and our national spirit remains largely libertarian, but subject to encroachment by moralizers from the left and right.

Jeff,
Words mean things.
They are not just names for the calling.

For an example, Marxist.
What does that mean?
What exactly is a Marxist?
What does a Marxist beleive?
How does one become a Marxist?

Well, here is one described path;

"Communism evolves from socialism out of this progression: the socialist slogan is “From each according to his ability, to each according to his work.” The communist slogan varies thusly: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”


HMMMMMM.......to whom would this apply?

Though I would agree there is no one finite definition for many words, progressive being one of them, I beleive that a progressive is one on the above described path.

A "secular progressive" would be one who does not beleive in God and is a predescrbed progressive.
Both of those things are contrary to my idea of America.





rk

pat addis
07-30-2010, 09:56 AM
Just like all conservatives are brown shirted fascists. Extremists make up a relatively small part of both Democrats and Republicans, and elections are won based on the choices made by those sitting squarely in the middle. What the wing-nuts produce -- whether they come from the right or the left -- is an awful lot of noise, but few real solutions. Names like fascist, communist, and socialist have little meaning in describing American politics. Even our most liberal politicians are relatively conservative by world standards, and our national spirit remains largely libertarian, but subject to encroachment by moralizers from the left and right.

so am i to take it that progressives are extremist therefore obama is too?

troy schwab
07-30-2010, 10:02 AM
Jeff,
Words mean things.
They are not just names for the calling.

For an example, Marxist.
What does that mean?
What exactly is a Marxist?
What does a Marxist beleive?
How does one become a Marxist?

Well, here is one described path;

"Communism evolves from socialism out of this progression: the socialist slogan is “From each according to his ability, to each according to his work.” The communist slogan varies thusly: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”


HMMMMMM.......to whom would this apply?

Though I would agree there is no one finite definition for many words, progressive being one of them, I beleive that a progressive is one on the above described path.

A "secular progressive" would be one who does not beleive in God and is a predescrbed progressive.
Both of those things are contrary to my idea of America.







rk

RK,
you mispelled predescribed....... just wanted to steal JDOGGERS thunder............

Back to the dictionary regards.....

YardleyLabs
07-30-2010, 10:25 AM
so am i to take it that progressives are extremist therefore obama is too?
Actually, Obama is being attacked on a fairly regular basis by the left wing of the Democratic party much as McCain was attacked by the right wing of the Republican party. Obama has always been too conservative fr progressives. If you look at Obama's job approval/disapproval ratings, you find that much of the disapproval is from those who believe he is too conservative (approximately 10% of the public).

JDogger
07-30-2010, 11:38 AM
RK,
you mispelled predescribed....... just wanted to steal JDOGGERS thunder............

Back to the dictionary regards.....

Well good Troy, you got it spelled correctly. Now, do you want to give a definition? .... a dictionary reference?:)

Tsk Tsk. Conservatives like to make up words almost as much as they like to make up facts.

ducknwork
07-30-2010, 12:15 PM
in the old days, degree of extremisim.

today, none...they are all left wing radical extremists that advocate socialist/communist principles.


Norman Matton Thomas (November 20, 1884 – December 19, 1968) was a leading American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America. He was ordained as a Presbyterian minister in 1911. As a candidate for President of the U. S., Norman Thomas said, in a 1944 epoch speech:

“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of “liberalism”, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”

He went on to say: “I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform.”


...............

YardleyLabs
07-30-2010, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Norman Matton Thomas (November 20, 1884 – December 19, 1968) was a leading American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America. He was ordained as a Presbyterian minister in 1911. As a candidate for President of the U. S., Norman Thomas said, in a 1944 epoch speech:

“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of “liberalism”, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”

He went on to say: “I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform.”
...............
You might want to give a true source for your Norman Thomas quote. No one has ever found a source other than Ronald Reagan in 1961, and he appears to have made it up. No documentation exists that Norman Thomas ever said any such thing. See http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/socialism.asp.

dnf777
07-30-2010, 12:51 PM
Jeff,
Words mean things.
They are not just names for the calling.


rk

I absolutely agree in theory with that, but unless we all agree on definitions and usage, then I'm afraid that names just become tools that one group uses against another. Think of the "n" word. If you or I use it, even quoting in context, we'd likely be looked upon very harshly. When rappers or young men of color use it on the street, its a "hip" term, and perfectly acceptable.

If I were called a progressive by you, Yardley, Hew, Obama, or JD....they would all have slightly or greatly different meanings.

In the 90s, the republican surge successfully branded "liberal" as a bad, almost unAmerican word. Very few would stand up and say "liberal and proud" today. (although Bush made this almost acceptable recently) I think the term progressive was coined into current usage to replace liberal, and are for the most part, interchangeable.

subroc
07-30-2010, 01:02 PM
I use left wing radical extremist, progressive, liberal, socialist, communist and democrat as an equal and interchangeable insult.